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Around SBN: Where Do The Lakers Go From Here?

Phoenix Suns 29 Games to go; Where are they now?

This story was "due" a little bit earlier (Seth will just have to dock my pay), but I had trouble dealing with the trade situation.  I don't think, however, it makes a huge difference.  I'll get to that after the jump.

Let's look at the beginning of the Suns' season, where they are and whether they're living up to expectations.  I've also got a personal stake in this one.

Star-divide

 

When the Suns were 14-3, I was crowing around the office.  My boss asked if I was willing to put my money where my mouth was; he's a big Suns' fan, too, but just more of a pessimist (he's been around since the beginning, whereas I've only had a little over 30 years' worth of disappointment).  He wanted to know if I'd bet the Suns win 55 games.  I wouldn't.  He said, "One gets you two," and I took the bet.  $25 in Starbucks' gift cards if the Suns don't make 55; $50 to me if they do.  I still say that, given the situation at the time and the odds given, it was a prudent bet.  Over an infinite number of repetitions with the same starting position, I make money on that bet.  That's 24-5 over the remainder of the season.  I think I'm going to wait until it's mathematically impossible and see how close the Suns are to 50.  Maybe I'll offer double-or-nothing at that point.

Looking at it now, getting to 50 would take a 19-10 record.  Two out of three from here on out?  Do the Suns need Amare to do that?  No.  Will the Suns make it to 55 if Amare stays?  No.

What do we know about the Suns without Amare?

In the Dallas game, he was the leading scorer without playing in the fourth period.  The Suns were losing until the fourth and pulled out the win.  He then started having monstrous games against teams above .500 and the Suns won.  In his last home game in a Suns' uniform, he had 24 and 9 with bad defense in a Suns' loss.

He was gone for Boris' lone productive year in the NBA.  Don't say, "The Suns would've won it all that year if Stoudemire had been healthy," because we all saw what happened with the two on the court together.

I'm sure there are other instances, too, that support this position.  Over his 7 seasons here, how often have you said, "He willed the Suns to victory."?  Probably never.  What about, "He carried the team to victory."?  Probably a few times, but can you remember an important game?  Whenever he's gone (physically or mentally), someone else seems to pick up the slack.

This leads me to conclude that the remainder of the Suns' season is not contingent upon Stoudemire.

Back to the Beginning

It was a great start, wasn't it?  I don't remember how many times Eddie Johnson joked, "Aren't they other teams scouting Dudley and Frye?"  Problem with that Eddie is that it apparently takes a full three weeks to get the word out and start incorporating it into team practices and meetings.  Frye has been re-adapting to teams adapting to him and he's coming back to earth.  I liken it to the real estate market -- there was a massive adjustment in home prices to adjust for the inflated value and we're now starting to see some growth back to where the prices should be.  Frye is evening out and learing to live with his proper spot in the NBA.

More than that, every Suns fan now has hope moving forward -- with or without Max Contract -- because of the younger players.  Even more than that -- Kerr and the scouting staff seem to know what they're doing, don't they?  D'Antoni wanted Shaq, so don't count that move.  For the most part, they've panned out well.  What we have not seen is whether he's able to attract star talent.  He's found good players to surround his stars, but he inherited the stars.

Now

Phoenix sits at the seven seed, 4 games out of second (two other teams are also 4 games out, but the Suns' have more games and more losses) and three games from the ninth seed.  I made the pre-season prediction of a 5 seed -- too high because of homerism, but I just couldn't give the Suns the home-court in the playoffs. 

The Suns have a good back-up PG, and someone that is showing signs of being able to take the reigns when Nash moves on.  The Suns finally have a seven-footer, and he is not a complete stiff.

Where are the Suns?  Eh?  About where we all expected.  Pretty good but no sightings of Trophy Boy at USAC.

Rest of the Season

19-10 is not impossible.  Games remain against Sacramento, Philadelphia, Clippers (twice), Indiana, Minnesota (twice), New Jersey, Detroit and Milwaukee.  Troubling games include going to Dallas on the second night of a road back-to-back, Atlanta at home, going to San Antonio, two more games against Denver and a game against the Lakers.  There are another dozen or so games that I'd put in the "winnable" category.

Playoffs?

New Orleans isn't getting any better with Chris Paul on crutches.  Houston starts a 6'6" center; it's a feel-good story, but didn't Rudy end up getting rocked?  Memphis has slowed down and will need a strong push to get into the Final 8.  Portland still has the ability to run out of steam and OK City is not battle-tested.

There's always hope, but I'd much rather rely on skill and preparation.  With Nash in the playoffs, with several days between games and the possibility of injuries on other teams, there is always hope.  I'm sure Nash will find a way to give us some excitement.  If you don't love the ups-and-downs for the change in altitude alone, then you're probably not a real sports fan.

The real question is where the Suns go after this season.  Kerr has put together a tough, scrappy bench.  He was given some good players.  If Amare goes, the Suns' transformation to the Dark Side will be complete (maybe not complete, but a heckuva lot closer).  If the Suns are playing tough defense and scrapping out wins, will you be saying "Yeah, it wins but its not fun to watch, so I'm not a Suns' fan anymore."?

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I wish I could share your optimism

But this has slightly lifted my spirits.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Feb 15, 2010 9:37 AM MST reply actions  

The way that comment is structured doesn't make sense, so I'll follow it up with

great post!

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Feb 15, 2010 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

I personally would love to see the suns be a gritty defensive team

something about the opponents shots constantly clanking off the rim makes my neck tingle!

by DaveJD on Feb 15, 2010 10:16 AM MST reply actions  

I agree

I’ve always liked watching teams lock-down defensively. It was a work of art watching the Celtics in 2007, when they won the championship.

Then again, it was also a work of art the SSOL Suns at their peak. Too bad those two types of teams can’t coexist.

by jburning on Feb 15, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Its not even about being a gritty defensive team

If we can just simply secure the rebounds so the opponent doesn’t get second chance points we will go far. I don’t know the statistic but when we win the rebounding battle we are almost unbeatable, so I think that should be our focus and not completely revamp our system to be in the image of Detroit.

by SSOHOWARD on Feb 15, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions  

we need players that rebound. not a team of offensive threats

rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak

by RGreyslak on Feb 15, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions  

An important consideration

I am on the fence about Amare.

 Part of me says he’ll never get defense and rebounding. I read the comment that he said where he doesn’t understand why we are shopping him. ’I’ve done everything they have asked, I am not in trouble with the law, I don’t cause problems in the locker room’. The statement alone makes me worry. He does not acknowledge that his inattention to rebounding and defense and his inability to affect the game when he is not scoring hurt the team.

Another part of me says if we dump him for whatever trash and expiring contracts come along, this is indicative of our lack of commitment to winning. Add to that Kerr’s failure to get Cleveland’s draft choice last year (he could have gotten Hickson), which is solely because they didn’t want to pay another measley late first round guaranteed contract, and it points to why Kerr/Sarver will never bring us a winner.

But the most important consideration in this trade is something I have never seen brought up in these pages. What does Nash think? He is our Captain America (even though he is Canadian). Is this trade going to discourage him? Is he on board? Does he think Amare should go?

April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?

by Hawk42 on Feb 15, 2010 11:19 AM MST reply actions  

Nash said

He wants Amare to stay, and that is something he never said about Marion.

Will he say, though, that he “feels like he’s been traded” like he did when Bell and Diaw went? I don’t think so, just because they were major cogs in the year without Amare. The got to the conf. finals with and without Amare. They got a game farther without him.

I think Nash re-signed knowing the potential of Amare leaving. That says quite a bit.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 15, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

If that;s how he feels,

We should take a reasonable deal. I don’t think the Cleveland deal is reasonable.

April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?

by Hawk42 on Feb 15, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Hawk

Although Amare’s comments may seem a bit alarming I wouldn’t expect Amare to say that he understands his defense and rebounding negatively affect the way people view him, this is his contract year. Additionally some of those comments you posted are very subjective and I don’t think that a lot of teams view him as a real defensive and rebounding liability. I’ve argued time and time again that if he got some assistance in the paint this would undoubtedly do wonders for Amare on the defensive end but he has yet to receive any.

Last year Amare’s rebounding numbers were up with Shaq helping in the lane, and Shaq was the one we picked apart because of his lack of defense and help defense in the paint. So in Phoenix there is always a fall guy for everything and that is usually a big guy not doing “enough” it has never been about Nash or anyone else letting their man get into the lane at will and expecting the help to save them. You can’t expect help from a big men every single possession, that creates too many problems like foul trouble (Shaq), being out of position (for rebounding), and wearing down from constantly having to guard two men.

SO I can see why Amare doesn’t think he is the one who is the liability on the defensive end, he is no Howard on the defensive end or glass nor will he ever be, but that does not mean he cannot have success or hold his own on the defensive end.

by SSOHOWARD on Feb 15, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions  

are you kidding?

Folks all over the league talk about how he plays no defense. You should hear about what they say about him here in Dallas. What he said WAS alarming. The fact is, the league knows that we won that Dallas game because he was taken out.

April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?

by Hawk42 on Feb 15, 2010 9:44 PM MST up reply actions  

-1:Amare is a better defender this year.

What other PF don't really play D? Al J? Dirk?

by magenta on Feb 15, 2010 10:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Did you even read my post?

Or my arguments? I remember Amare was not on the chopping block for his D last year, Shaq was, and what do you know a Cleavland team who’s first priority is D picks up Shaq for his D (among other things) so he can guard Dwight Howard. Hmm…. sounds fishy as a Suns fan to constantly blame our defensive struggles on our big man…. but it gets better Cleavland also values Amare’s game and thinks he is a good fit in a defensive oriented system….? Wow what is the argument for that? Could it be that these two players who are highly criticized aren’t the villains we Suns fans portray them as…?

 For those of us who really follow the game and know a bit about it would agree that if you put complete pressure on your big man every possession on the defensive end to get a stop or a block or a rebound without help, he will fail. Dwight Howard would fail in that situation, but fortunately for him he has 4 team mates that share the burden on the defensive end.

If your perimeter players could actually stop or even slow down opponents from getting in the lane at will you’d see the defensive statistics improve. But if our best defender who guards the opponents best player is a 36 year old Grant Hill, we have issues.

 It doesn’t take great basketball IQ to look at a team whos great on the defensive end to see that it is a team game on that end of the floor as much or maybe more than it is on the offensive end.

The Cav’s don’t have anyone who is that impressive on D Lebron is very good defensive player but it is the system that helps him a lot. SA does not have any great defenders, Timmy gets plenty of help in the lane from his obese center playing along side him. Orlando has Dwight who is a freak of nature but who get plenty of help.

Amare has NO help, Amare has only 6 fouls to give every game so no doubt he has to pick his battles in the lane and has to take some plays off or else he’d foul out by the 3rd quarter.

by SSOHOWARD on Feb 15, 2010 10:37 PM MST up reply actions  

+ 10000: Agree as Amare is double and triple teamed every time

Becos the Suns has not other post, paint or interior threat i.e. in D or offense.

And btw, it is hard asking Amare to play major minutes and do everything at the pace the Suns play. Not even Dwight can do that and Dwight’s offense leaves much to be desired.

by magenta on Feb 16, 2010 7:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Please-

Taking our leading scorer and rebounder off this team would KILL us..you point out that they won the Dallas game w/ him on the bench in the 4th..what happens on that 4 game road trip we just swept w/o him DOMINATING? I know all of us as Suns fans want to paint this positive picture of life w/o Amare, but this will in effect end the season..not just talent-wise, but spirit-wise in that locker room. Nash was quoted numerous times saying that trading Stat would be “very unfortunate,” JD has started online campaigns against trading him, cmon people! Amare will be SORELY missed, there’s a reason guys like Lebron & DWade are pushing their front offices to go get him..

by jma67 on Feb 15, 2010 12:25 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

If we get all this money with the cavs trade...

If we get all this money trading with Cleveland who do you guys think we can get to come here free agent wise? i see the majority of the big names staying with their same team. I think the Suns would be better off landing talent then capspace. just my opinion.

I’m still holding out on a deal with Phi
Come on Phi take STAT
Igg would be a great defender for us at the 2 guard and could start the process of bringing in more defensive minded players to the team.

JRich will be a valuable expiring contract next season. We can’t just drop him for nothing. Sarver needs to spend a little money and make wiser choices with trade decisions.

we should already have jj hickson when we sent shaq to cleveland for crap.

Does steve kerr secretly work for Cleveland? hmmmm

rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak

by RGreyslak on Feb 15, 2010 12:52 PM MST reply actions  

If we ditch JRich

Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay would be the two big names I’d go after. Not sure if JJ would consider signing here, though, given our history.

Here’s some other complimentary guys I’d contemplate:

Anthony Morrow
Ike Diogu
Hakim Warrick
Joe Alexander
Sean May

by jburning on Feb 15, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions  

As long as Sarver owns the team no way JJ will come back here and play. He told Sarver he did not want to play for him anymore.

Rudy Gay would be great but I can’t see Memphis letting him go and they are an up and coming team.

I would’nt be very excited about anyone else on that list if that is what we get in return for giving up amare for cap space.

rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak

by RGreyslak on Feb 15, 2010 1:11 PM MST reply actions  

I honestly don't know if the Suns would do much this summer.

They’d probably wait until next summer when there are fewer teams to compete with and we’ll likely be working against a new CBA.

by jburning on Feb 15, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

I’d rather keep Amare for the rest of the season and than deal with him in the summer in less we can somehow get Iggy and Dally from Philly which still seams to be the most talent we could get back.

I’ve heard rumors that we have offered Barbosa instead of J-Rich which could make the deal closer to happening, but you never know. Another way we could do this is by getting Miami involved in a 3 team deal.

 I’ve heard that the Cleveland talks were serious, but likely wont happen. I heard they were just talking to get other teams to spice up their offers.

by Beavis 25 on Feb 15, 2010 1:27 PM MST reply actions  

i was thinking the same thing

I think this talk was to benenfit cleveland and Phoneix.

Cleveland wants troy murphy or antawn jamison and wants their asking prices lowered

Suns want the offers for amare to be higher.

Stating they are about to confirm a deal alerts all other parties involved.

Im hoping this is the case.

Pro trade to PHI

rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak

by RGreyslak on Feb 15, 2010 1:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Good writeup.

I think the 19-10 will be a challenge (especially if Amare goes), but doable. And with this Suns team, we’ve seen that when they’re faced with a challenge, they usually perform pretty well. It’s when they get complacent and comfortable that they start having problems.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by Trevor Paxton on Feb 15, 2010 4:26 PM MST reply actions  

It certainly depends

on the return. If we pick up Dalmbert and Iggy, the playoffs are still in sight. Same goes with the Miami deal. Obviously though, the CLE deal leaves us with Hickson and an eye for the future. Hickson cant put in 20 and 8, even if he’s given the starting job.

Still, you never know. I sense Kerr wants to go to the playoffs. missing two years in a row certainly looks bad on a resume which may need to be utilized soon.

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Feb 15, 2010 8:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Exactly the reason I have an inkling

That Amare comes back for the “stretch run”, and then we deal with trade/walking scenarios at the end of the year.

Though, I have a feeling if we keep him for the rest of this season, and he doesn’t opt in (pulls a Carlos Boozer on us), we’ll be kicking ourselves for not trading him, just so we could make it to the playoffs and maybe win a round.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by Trevor Paxton on Feb 16, 2010 8:03 AM MST up reply actions  

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