Amare Stoudemire Trade Rumor Thread, part 2
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 5:23 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintHere we go again folks - all your Amare Stoudemire trade rumor information and discussion in one place.
You know the drill - updates throughout the day as information develops. Newest info on the top with a time/date stamp.
Stay tuned. It very well could be a busy day on the Amare trade front. It will definitely will be the last full day.
For other trade news from around the league check back with the SB Nation Trade Story Stream.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 9:41 PM MST ]
Now what for Amare? - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN
That leaves the Miami Heat as the only known suitor for Amare. One source close to the process disputed what a Suns source told me earlier today about Miami's reluctance to give up draft picks for Amare. The Heat own the Raptors' and their own first-round draft picks this year. "The Heat have offered a pick," the source said. "I think this comes down to, will they offer their second first-rounder, as well?"
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 5:21 PM MST ]
So...that was fun
Twitter / John Gambadoro: Michael Beasley is not bei ...
Michael Beasley is not being offered by the Miami Heat to the Phoenix Suns...So it looks very much like Amare Stoudemire will stay in Phx
Twitter / John Gambadoro: Cleveland in the end did n ...
Cleveland in the end did not want to part with JJ Hickson and that is why there is no deal between the Cavs and the Suns
Sources: Cavaliers agree to 3-way trade with Wizards and Clippers; receive forward Antawn Jamison and guard Sebastian Telfair | Cleveland Cavaliers - cleveland.com
The Cavs made the move after they were unable to complete a trade with the Phoenix Suns for Amare Stoudemire. After nearly a week of talks the Cavs pushed for an answer Wednesday afternoon. Either they were told no or told to wait by Phoenix, who was hoping for better deals to mature.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 5:05 PM MST ]
Twitter / John Gambadoro: I am hearing that Amare St ...
I am hearing that Amare Stouemire will remain a Phoenix Sun.....
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 3:57 PM MST ]
Twitter / Adrian Wojnarowski: The Suns have told Amar'e ...
The Suns have told Amar'e Stoudemire that he is playing tonight against the Dallas Mavericks, suggesting no imminent trade, sources tell Y!
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 2:57 PM MST ]
Twitter / Brian Windhorst: There are some indications ...
There are some indications out there that the Suns are getting close to giving Cavs an answer on Amar'e. As in very soon.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 2:41 PM MST ]
Twitter / Dave Burns (Commish): Agent for Amare tells AP t ...
Agent for Amare tells AP that he expects Amare to get traded. Adds that Amare believes Suns game tonight vs Mavs will be his last for Suns
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 1:17 PM MST ]
Update from Gambo on KTAR (audio later)
Gambo says the report from yesterday about the Heat offering that mixed bag is false and that the Cavs and Heat deals are still as reported yesterday with Beasley and pick(s).
Suns are trying to get a third team involved to spin off either Illgauskas or some of the Heat assets including Beasley who the Suns don't want.
The names mentioned were Iguodala and ....wait for it...Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich.
Hinrich makes no sense to me given his contract and role ($17m over 2 yrs). Deng would be interesting I guess but he's also got a big contract ($51m/4yrs). Makes me wonder why they would be ok paying Deng that kind of money but not Amare.
Gambo also reports a mysterious new team has entered the fray...
Gambo reporting the Suns offered Amare two years at $14m/yr beyond the final year so that would have been a total of 3 yrs / $45m. Suns didn't want to give him more years given his injury history. That seems low to me.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 12:57 PM MST ]
Update from our old pal, Chad Ford:
Of the two teams vying for Stoudemire, only the Heat have actually received permission from the Suns to speak to Stoudemire's agent. The Cavs, as of Wednesday afternoon, have yet to call.
Still, sources close to the negotiations say that, right now, Cleveland is the front-runner. Why? Because the Heat have yet to offer the Suns a deal that would beat the Cavs' offer of Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson. One source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that the Heat have yet to offer Michael Beasley or either of their two first-round picks.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 11:49 AM MST ]
Twitter / Amar'e Stoudemire: Just leaving our Breakfast ...
Just leaving our Breakfast Meeting. "I'm still here" Lol. It's time for a hair cut. Got to stay fresh during this trade talk. Lol.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 10:34 AM MST ]
Steve Kerr and Jerry Colangelo on KTAR this morning. Neither said anything super interesting but still...
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 9:42 AM MST ]
A few non-trade related links that are very interesting...
- FireGeorgeKarl.com, Denver Stiffs, And Incredibly Difficult News - SB Nation
- The NBA in 3-D: Coming Soon to a Living Room Near You -- NBA FanHouse
ESPN already committing to it by ramping up the number of events they film with this new technology, it's likely to be here sooner than you might think.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/17/10 7:47 AM MST ]
Here's the latest dirt:
- Woj at Yahoo! reports that extension talks with Amare are over and that the Suns have decided to trade Amare
- The Heat have now taken Beasley off the table but are considering taking J-Rich's contract either themselves or with a third team. That would leave the Suns with a TON of cap space this summer along with a couple of first round draft picks. But no Beasley as reports stand right now
- The Heat offer is reported to include Daequan Cook, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Mario Chalmers and draft picks to the Suns
- The Cavs want Amare as their first choice but are working on back-up plans with Jamison, Murphy and Maggette
Links to Sources
Cavs talks with Wizards intensify - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Washington is still trying to squeeze possibly another pick or young player out of the Cavs, but sources say it’s possible a deal could get done without J.J. Hickson(notes). As it stands, both sides believe they have the framework of a workable deal.
Trade buzz: Amar'e done with Suns? - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Amar’e Stoudemire(notes) and the Phoenix Suns are no longer discussing a contract extension, and the All-Star forward was privately telling friends that he believes he’s playing his last game in a Suns uniform on Wednesday night in Dallas, sources said. Meanwhile, the Miami Heat are still working to put together a package for Stoudemire, although a source familiar with Pat Riley’s most recent offer says it doesn’t include Michael Beasley(notes). Miami failed in its attempt to enlist the Charlotte Bobcats as a partner to take on Udonis Haslem(notes) in a three-team trade. The Heat could be willing to take on Jason Richardson’s(notes) contract, which has one year worth $14.4 million left after this season, for the chance to land Stoudemire to play alongside Dwyane Wade(notes).
Suns' Amar'e Stoudemire: It's great to be wanted
But in that same room, there also was a feeling that Stoudemire might not play for the Suns Wednesday night at Dallas. That was before a Yahoo! report said Cleveland's talks about acquiring Washington's Antawn Jamison, instead of Stoudemire, had intensified. Reportedly, Cleveland's LeBron James favors Stoudemire. The most-likely Suns trade scenario remains a deal with Cleveland for power forward J.J. Hickson, center Zydrunas Ilgauskas, swingman Danny Green and a first-round draft pick. Ilgauskas could be bought out to get the Suns under the luxury-tax threshold or traded again. Miami is the next-strongest suitor, but a third team would have to get involved because the Suns are not interested in the Heat's offers, even ones that include Michael Beasley or Jermaine O'Neal's massive expiring contract.
Wizards Insider - Latest Wizards trade rumblings
But it seems apparent that nothing will go down until the Phoenix Suns decide what they are going to do with Amare Stoudemire. Based on my conversations, I am under the impression that the Cavaliers would prefer to acquire Stoudemire, a 26-year-old all-star stud who is also being pursued by the Miami Heat.
Wait and see: Stoudemire remains Cleveland Cavaliers' top target, but Jamison still a strong option | Cleveland Cavaliers - cleveland.com
The Cavs' deal, in conjunction with a potential money-saving buyout of Ilgauskas' contract, could put the Suns under the luxury tax. That is a move that could save Phoenix is excess of $10 million this season. Miami's offers likely would not get the Suns under the tax but could include more draft picks -- the Heat own two first-rounders this year. There are signs that Miami is trying to find a way to also trade for Suns' guard Jason Richardson, who will make $14.4 million next season, as part of the deal. If the Heat can do that, and therefore give the Suns the sort of cash savings the Cavs currently are offering, there's a good chance Phoenix may select Miami's offer.
NBA trade deadline: The latest info - ESPN
According to an NBA source, the Heat are offering Daequan Cook, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Mario Chalmers and draft picks to the Suns. Cook is the only player among that group who is under contract for next season (Chalmers has a team option for $847,000). It is believed that the Suns would rather have a package from Cleveland that would include Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson and a draft pick, with the young Hickson as the most appealing part of the package. Another league source said the Suns would like to attach Jason Richardson to a Stoudemire trade, which would relieve Phoenix from having to pay Richardson's $14 million salary next season.
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Seth...Way to get us started again...good stuff
After reading that Sarver was among the most vocal of owners during the CBA proposal that the league gave the union over the All-Star weekend, I know it’s not a matter of if he gets traded, but where…I am still holding out hope we don’t get served to bad in the deal…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Just to add the the newest Heat offer is totally unappealing...
Money wise, it’s cool but nets us some leftover garbage that we probably can’t use…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Agreed, maybe a three team deal could net us the talent that the Heat cant
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
I don't like the "new" Heat's deal
No way. It’s like tanking the season.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on Feb 17, 2010 8:16 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Might as well trade Nash & Grant if we go with this combo
Would be a tear it down and rebuild scenario, I think…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Kerr has got to be a F**king retard to do this trade. I keep saying that the only trade scenario in which we lose Amar’e and still not end up as losers is one that nets us Iggy. Draft picks and messed up players aint gonna get us to the playoffs. We’ll only end up getting a top 10 draft position for a draft pick we don’t own… Does Kerr leave his brain at home when going for negotiations?
The Iggy thing isn't happening
would you rather Amare left for nothing? that sure as hell isn’t going to get us into the playoffs.
But if Amare stayed it sure as hell would get us into the playoffs "this year" ....
As a matter of fact Dave, at this point I would rather keep this team together for this season and a playoff run and let Amare walk for nothing. The damage that a crap deal like the Miami proposal listed above would do to the psyche of the Suns fan base, not to mention the morale of the players themselves, would be worse than the Suns letting Amare walk and getting nothing. People are forgetting that an Amare trade might not only not make us better, but it could make us worse. Much worse. I think if Kerr did that Miami trade he destroys the morale of the team and the fan base for years. You’d be telling the fans that it is all about Sarver’s wallet and not about winning. What do you think the aftermath of that would be? I’d rather let Amare leave than take on that crap offer and become the laughing stock of the entire league!
by Jack Frost on Feb 17, 2010 8:59 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
+1 I've been saying that for weeks
The money saved on Amare this year would be offset by all of the money lost in years to come
+1. Riley would be playing us for a fool.
If people really want to use Amare to keep their superstars then they better ante up. Otherwise, i say make them sweat it out in the offseason.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 17, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
I don't get why beasley is off the table
they say they want STAT but then won’t give us their only attractive piece. I still think we should do it if we can dump J-rich then we can go after someone in FA like Gay, Lee, Boozer (or maybe even LeBron!!! lol).
I don’t see why the suns would be interested in Chalmers if they aren’t interested in Beasley, he was involved in just as much weed specualation as Beasley AND he’s less talented AND he plays PG where Goran and Steve get all the minutes, unless we’re planning on trading Nash it doesn’t make sense.
I think this is Miami trying to play hard ball with us because they know we are in a bind, truthfully the news shouldn’t have ever leaked that we are not going to give an extension because now everyone knows we’re desperate.
I am afraid you are right...
Sarver didn’t help himself with his hardline position on the new CBA during the All-Staar weekend…It signified that he was probably not going to meet Amare ’s money requirements and would have to trade him…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
That and waiting until the last minute
But you never know, if nothing gets offered worth anything I do NOT think Sarver is dumb enough to let Amare walk for a draft pick, he will have no choice but to give an extension or work something out with Amare that works for both he and the team.
I am really hoping for this scenario
Itt may be our best option with what’s out there right now…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I don’t think Amare is a prick he would be willing to work something out with the team so that he goes somewhere he wants to and we get something in return for him. As much as we’ve been bad to Amare i still think he has loyalty to us, we drafted him and took a HUGE chance on an unpolished kid right out of high school.
I hate, hate, hate
The “new” Heat deal. I’d rather take Cleveland’s trade. Now, if they take on Richardson, then maybe. But we better get both of their picks.
Then we really would be tanking
If we get nothing but scraps for Amare and JRich, we really are mailing in the season . Saves a lot of money but we would surely lose some fanbase…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
by Daryl Ray on Feb 17, 2010 8:38 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
if we give Cavs Amare, then thats like the Lakers-Gasol deal. Cavs will become unbeatable.
If we give Heats, they get stronger as well.
I just pity teams dealing out all their players to get FA this offseason as it seems they will all resign for their present teams (at least those that matter)
In the end though
it worked out pretty well for Memphis. Two or three young talents that look to be really good and Randolph is playing well…
Reading is good...
I would stop following the Suns if we take this new Heats trade
I’m sorry but I hate owners who waste my team by fielding crap teams
Don't panic yet
it’s just a report of a new offer from their side….doesn’t mean that’s what will happen
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Knowing Kerr and Sarver,
it might as well be done.
Those two are the worst negotiators ever.
I wonder what kind of business man Sarver actually is as it seems he lacks business sense. I’m an Engineer and i actually know more business than he does
Kerr seems like a good negotiator to me
Based on what he does/doesn’t say when he does on the radio and such. I think Sarver is too quick to show his cards, though.
may be
but he is the one who gets blamed since he is the GM
by jatrex4suns on Feb 17, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry: Kerr does crap trades. He has no business being a GM
We might as well get Barkely or Reggie Miller to be our GM.
You can't be serious.
Sadly based on your comments above you are…
I would stop following the Suns if we take this new Heats trade
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm sorry but I dun think I can follow the Suns if we trade Amare for scraps and picks
We might as well spend some money to buy picks this season
If you knew more business than Sarver
you would be a multi-millionaire like he is – and you could put your money where your mouth is and buy the team from him. Lets not get too irrational.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Look, I'm a pretty big JRich fan
But if the Suns move him, too — without taking on the Beasley they don’t want (even if the fans do) — isn’t that a huge boon to the team?
How many millions of dollars would be available to woo free agents? Having a shot at Chris Bosh?
I’m in the camp of willing to take a chance on Beasley, but I’d rather dump Richardson’s salary. Come on, would you rather have Hickson or Richardson off the books?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
both...
I want Hickson AND JRich off the books…..and I will take that Durant kid while we are at it
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 8:44 AM MST up reply actions
It some reports
it did sound like Cleveland was also considering taking on Richardson. Frankly, Kerr should exploit Cleveland more. We all know Ferry will do anything it takes to placate LeBron. If you said “Hey BronBron, who would you rather have … Hickson, Wally World and Z, or Amare Stoudemire and Jason Richardson??” He’d okay that trade.
I don't think
even Cleveland would take on $30m in salary
I would make LeBron commit to staying before I did that deal if I was Cleveland.
OTOH, if LeBron does leave they at least have JRich who’s only got one year left on that contract and possibly Amare….
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
What Free Agent is going to want to come to a team that loses 26 of it's last 28????
Coupled with the fact that our team management is starting to get a bad reputation…We would have to have something to attract a top tier FA outside of money (like a team to build around…)
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
We have this guy called Steve Nash
not sure if you’ve heard of him, he’s quite good. Does a lot of passing, decent shooter, won a couple of awards for being the best player in the league. You never know, maybe one of those free agents will go crazy and want to play with him.
true dat I'm so sick
of the cynicism everyone assumes we are the dumbest franchise in the history of professional sports.
No cyncicism here SSO
We all want the best for the Suns…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Ok
I know you all haven’t agreed with every decision this franchise has made, but I hope you all can honestly say they’ve been smart decisions that maybe haven’t panned out
Well they've tried to make smart decision...
Maybe it’s the GM learning curve…I dunno…They are trying
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
My point is none of the decisons have been stupid, truthfully there aren’t many decisions made by management of any team that are stupid even though they may not be agreeable. Look at the Pau Gasol trade I think Memphis got the better side of the trade.
The Spurs let
Scola and Barbosa go….
No team is perfect and most of the worst decisions are several years old…
-Not keeping JJ which Sarver admitted was a mistake but it was his first year.
-The draft pick selling which I still mostly blame D’Antoni for since he insisted that he wanted Marcus -Banks over Rajon Rondo, etc.
-The KT deal which was all about the $16m
-The Shaq trade which I hated but at least was a basketball driven gamble
-The JRich trade which I didn’t like at the time (mostly b/c I have a strange love for Diaw) but at worst is a wash
Of them all, the Banks signing was terrible and that falls on D’Antoni and then selling picks which is a combo of D’Antoni who wouldn’t play rookies while trying to win a championship and ownership for letting him do that and saving the money in the process.
Bad decisions but not horrible and certainly better than a LOT of teams.
We are spoiled compared to most of the league. We are no Boston or LA. We don’t have owners like they do in Dallas or Portland or Cleveland. But it really isn’t that bad in comparison.
Remember that most teams like the Thunder and Blazers went through a long long time of suck before getting better. Hornets and Grizzlies as well and of course how long were the Cavs bad before the got LeBron?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
from a Spurs fan...
And our front office has made dozens of blunders, trading away our good draft choices (Barbosa, Scola, Goran Dragic, to name a few) and keeping poor ones. Not to mention, since we apparently didn’t value Dragic that highly anyway, couldn’t we have taken Nicolas Batum with our first round pick, and the unknown George Hill with the 45th pick?
Let’s hope the front office gets smarter going forward!
http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/02/16/report-spurs-shopping-mcdyess/
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:22 AM MST up reply actions
Wow .... Goran Dragic referred to as a good draft pick.
That would have been impossible halfway through last season.
Maybe things are looking up
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
SSOHOWARD is right. I'm also sick of people talking about the Suns as
a laughing stock franchise if we keep pulling trades that make a contender look like pansies i.e. trading away or not signing our best defenders and young talents.
Let's use Bosh as an example
What would attract him? Let’s see …
1. A big contract (Amare and Richardson are over $30M);
2. Steve Nash
3. A defensive center
4. A quality bench
5. A bunch of three-point shooters around him
6. Warm weather
7. Girls of thedirty.com
Mmmmm ... Guinness
I guess Girls of the dirty.com seals the deal....
But how many years does Nash truthfully have left..?
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Let's wait and see what happens...
By trading Amare & JRich this year, you don’t think Nash will be a little agitated…Remmeber what happend when Diaw & Bell got traded…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
give me a break
here we go with conspiracy again, Diaw and Bell got traded cause they sucked and we found a team that was willing to take 2 sucky players, end of story.
Who cares if they sucked
The point is how will Nash percieve it if we trade both and only get back a package like what Miami is offering…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Kerr traded Diaw and Bell because they were vocal in opposing Porter
And they played well at Charlotte last season. Kerr did this without acknowledging the havoc Porter’s system created for all the players in that season
The Suns lost perimeter D as well as flexibility in having a playmaker in the paint. Please note that Diaw covered for Nash ably during Nash’s second MVP season when he was out with injury and covered for Amare during the year he was out with micro surgery. Diaw was also the best player in the last play-off series with the Spurs
JRich has been a dissappointment with his streaky offense. To me, he sucks and he does not play D that well. Louis Amundsun is the only consolation prize as an energy role player thatplays his hearts out in limited minutes.
I think Nash was so pissed when they got traded was because Bell was his best friend on the team
Now i can’t be sure, but i’ve never really thought that Amar’e and Nash were all that close off the court, despite their good chemistry off it, same goes for J-rich. If Nash see’s that we sign someone in FA and get some good pieces now for a cap-killing contract and a guy who was gonna go anyway, i don’t see him being that annoyed long-term.
I could be wrong
but I don’t think Nash will be too upset if Amare and JRich get traded if he see’s the upside.
I don’t think he has the personal relationship with either of those guys that he did with Raja and even Boris
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:01 AM MST up reply actions
+1 Dave
Nash isn’t an egotistical player, I think he will understand the decions we have to make are the best for the team, Nash is under no spell right now and does not assume we are championship contenders anytime soon. I’m sure he agrees with the semi rebuild if it happens…
Have you heard any of
Nash’s interviews regarding this? Oh, he’s unhappy alright..the only reason he hasn’t completely flipped out is that the FO has been tellin him they can’t afford a max deal. I’m afraid of his reaction when he sees they only offered Amare a 2 year deal & according to Coro, Stat’s not asking for the max..as far as Nash being a draw, he would be-if he was 26, not 36. I love Steve as much as anyone, but everyone knows he only has a couple years left, no one’s gonna sign a 5 year deal strictly because of Nash.
by jma67 on Feb 17, 2010 9:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Whats he gonna say?
Nash is being diplomatic, does he say that he thinks Amar’e should be traded and then risk him not going and creating awful chemistry. He’s simply stating the reasons everyone has already used so he doesn’t hurt anyone. Nobody knows what he’s feeling but i’m sure he’s gonna be a lot happier if we send amar’e out now than lose him in the summer and have to have pops mensha-bonsu as his replacement cos he’s the only guy we can afford.
-1: You are dead wrong. Nash has stated his concern about
management bringing new players into the mix even when the team has found its rhytmn.
If we lose Amare, we risk tanking this season and missing the play-ofs without a first round pick. That’s Utah’s btw.
Let's just speculate ...
Bosh, Nash, Lopez, Hill and Barbosa? I don’t know, they probably pick up a starting 2 somewhere. Dragic competently spelling Nash. A good bench. Isn’t that a contending team?
Let’s not forget, the Suns cannot give the whole $30M to Bosh. What other FAs could they pick up to help out?
Nash has at least one more year — probably more — but Dragic is filling in nicely and Nash’s decline/departure would just mean that Bosh carries a little more of the load on a well-composed team.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
Bosh
here’s my concern with Chris…knees
That guy wears some serious braces on both knees and when he was in Phoenix last time I remember seeing him struggle at times. I’ve also chatted w/ people in Toronto who see the same thing and wonder why his knees aren’t discussed more.
Still, it’s premature and the Suns would do a thorough medical evaluation before giving Chris a long term deal.
I think I lean more towards to mid-tier FA’s like Gay and Lee vs one big name and a couple of small fish.
Obviously, if this happens and JRich and Amare is gone we are going to spend a LOT of time talking about our shopping list.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
Brings up a good point...
The Phoenix training staff is heralded for the jobs it has done reabbing guys like Hill, Shaq and even Nash to a small extent…MAybe that might be a drawing card to a FA like Bosh and he accepts less…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Just saying it's a concern
of mine right now…obviously, the Suns would check him out before signing
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:11 AM MST up reply actions
I love the way we're saying theres concern over Bosh's knees
shows there’s hope. At the start of the season if someone told me we could potentially get bosh i would’ve laughed.
There is one concern i have with Bosh though, he seems to be the epitome of a contract year player this year. Averaging career highs in points/rebounds/asists/fg%.
The one thing I will argue with Dave is the 24 year old rule that applies to ALL NBA players
At age 24 they have the best statistical year of their career.
The other thing is would Bosh be worth Max to us? Is he that much of an upgrade from Amare that would justify an extra 50 million or whatever more a Max would be over the 57 more Amare wanted??
Bosh is only 24?
I thought he was older than that, and as for players having their best statistical year at 24 i disagree, most guys go into their prime at 27-31. I’m not sure if Bosh would be worth the max, but seeing both of them play this season i’d have to say he’d worth more than Amar’e.
No most guys are in their prime at that age, but statistically ALONE they have their best seasons at age 24.
A la Lebron—— age 24———he will not average 28/ 8.5/ 8.5/ 1.5/ 1 EVER again those numbers are not human.
I don't know about that..
Do you really doubt that he could average a triple douoble someday in his career?
by bangbang240 on Feb 17, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe...maybe not..
Still developing…I wouldn’t wan’t to say want he coulnd’t do over the next several years..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
LeBron's numbers
should go down when he’s playing w/ better players….KG’s did.
Still…he’s by far the best player in the game. Not even close anymore. Amazing
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:29 AM MST up reply actions
Well he may not get 28.5 a game...
But as strong as he is physically and his burgeoning court awareness, he might be a threat for a thriple double average for a season.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Thats why i want to see lebron with better teamates
so we can watch him turn into magic johnson 2.0
Thats a point
with Amar’e in Miami that takes one of bosh’s destinations away. Would he rather go to New York to play with eddie curry or Phoenix to play with steve nash and alll our developing players.
Honestly
Don’t you think that’s underselling the team a little bit? We still have Nash.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 8:52 AM MST up reply actions
I hate to get too excited about Lopez
But I feel much better about Amare leaving with Lopez’s emerging game.
After looking @ these
“Offers,” are any of them that much better than watching Amare walk for nothing? I mean, really we’re looking at Hickson, a bunch of fringe players, and savings for Banker Bob..I know we wouldn’t have the full $17 mil under the cap to spend on a free agent, but its my understanding the Suns would have about $6-7 mil to give a free agent & there are going to be A LOT of guys who aren’t gonna get the $ they think b/c of the unknown in ‘11..then you have JRich’s expiring deal going into next season, which is a pretty big chip..I think that route’s better than either of these CRAP offers, and we actually get to see what this team is capable of in the playoffs.
by jma67 on Feb 17, 2010 9:01 AM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
You don’t want at least one first round pick in the next draft?
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:03 AM MST up reply actions
We’re gonna have that money either way though, right? He’s saying let Amare walk for nothing. I say trade him for a combo of youth, expiring contracts, and pick(s) like they are trying to do.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
The picks we'd get wouldn't be that good....
if we’re talking about New Jersey’s pick that would be one thing. But we are not.
This needs to be repeated again, apparently ...
If Amare walks, we DO NOT HAVE $17.7 MILLION TO SPEND NEXT YEAR. We only have the amount under the cap that Amare leaving gets us, which is about $7m.
Cap space
can easily be turned into draft picks as well…happens all the time
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
I should also say
1) I trust this front office in scouting younger players. Dudley, Amundson, Dragic, Lopez. I’m confident Clark will be on that list this time next year, too.
2) Theoretical, but isn’t it possible the front office is afraid Amare opts in next year? He’s going to make almost 18 million, and he’s not worth that amount. I think this FO wants to ensure they’ll have cap room to go after a proven big name to pair up with Nash for his final years.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
Its completely your opinion, but me and many of the fans think Amare is worth 18 million a year IF he is healthy, if we could offer him a non guaranteed contract for his future health I’d give him 20 a year no problem.
$20million?
LeBrons contract next year will start at $16.25 million.
Understood
I’d rather spend that money on a D-Wade though. Spending it on Amare, to me, feels like spending it on Rashard Lewis. No thanks.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
IF given the opportunity I’d rather spend on Wade but thats not very realistic.
Compairing Amare to Rashard is ridiculous you know Amare can produce 10x what Rashard can
IF Amare stays healthy I don’t see a better PF for this team. The team knows this but his health is the real issue NOT his production.
agrreeed
his health is an issue so i wouldn’t wanna tie up 20 million for 3 to 5 years on amare, 17 tops
I know he can, but doesn’t mean he will. He’s had all of this year to prove he could and obviously at this point, he wasn’t able to. Point was simply that it would feel like overpaying him, just like Orlando is overpaying Lewis.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
You are crazy underthebridge
Amare is producing well enough to earn 18-20 a year, that isn’t the issue to be discussing here. It is the health risk that is involved with signing a guy like that to a long term expensive deal that is the issue.
Like I said if we could keep giving Amare 1 year 20M dollar deals at the end of every season he’s healthy he would be worth EVERY penny.
18-20 mil a year should only go to players that outplay their opponent on a nightly basis. He hasn’t done that nightly this year. He’ll do it for 10 games, then disappear for another 10.
We’re not even paying Nash that much, and he’s our best player by far.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:30 AM MST up reply actions
Dude STAT outplays the other PF 90% of the time, if you want to dig up season stats you will see that only on a few occasions has teh opponents PF outplayed Amare.
That was one of the things I loved about Amare in the SA series, Amare matched or outdid what Duncan did in points every game.
I’m sorry, was that SA series this year? He used to be a beast. If he was still that beast, we wouldn’t be in this boat.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
What PF gives you more ppg shooting 55% from the floor? That is called beasting it.
Dirk may give you 3 or 4 more PPG but shoots -10%
Bosh the same thing a couple points more per game but shoots -8%
Dirk plays absolutely no D, and rebounds worse.
Nobody knows if Bosh plays D because nobody watches the Canadian league, obviously if what Seth said is true and he struggles to move, he isn’t a force on the defensive end either….
His jump shot is his saving grace. If it weren’t for that, you could swap him out with any number of guys to just camp around the paint and get easy looks from Nash.
Amare can hardly create for himself anymore. Occasionally you’ll see him in iso and be able to make a move and score, but he can’t do it with his back to the basket and as a result, more often than not he just loses the ball when he faces up and tries to get around his man.
How many times have you seen him lose the handle this seaason? It’s become utterly ridiculous.
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:46 AM MST up reply actions
How many times have you seen Dirk do it?? Any big man who puts the ball on the floor is going to have turnovers bro.
Point is as many bad things you want to say about him doesn’t make them true. Occasionally you’ll see him score in an iso??? The dude is just now getting back into shape from injury, Amare doesn’t get ISO’s he is ALWAYS double / triple teamed.
Take a look at most of Amare’s feeds from Nash they are fast paced plays / passes in the paint (very dangerious) and Amare ALWAYS makes a play with it.
As much as you want to put Amare’s production as a direct product of NAsh’s assists I think the opposite is true as well, there aren’t very many big men who can catch the ball in traffic like Amare does and finishes.
Without Amare Nash’s assists go down by 3-4 per game.
Disagree. Remember when he was out and Diaw more than filled his shoes?
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:52 AM MST up reply actions
No he didn’t, we were up against weak talent in the Western conference playoffs that year. Can you name another player other than Kobe on LA that season, can you name ANY player on LA Clips that season??
Don’t tell me going forward when things became more competitive in the west Diaw was a suitable replacement, that is laughable.
Bosh does not play great D
Please follow the games yourselves.
However, he has bullked up this season and is muscling his way in the paint.
However I see that as a plus to his offense and rebounding.
+10: SSO Howard is right
Amare is playing better than Dirk and Gasol at many levels: http://www.ktar.com/?nid=112&sid=1249193
I think money is the key issue
If the Suns could have gotten him for 3 years at about 43 million total, I think it wold have gone through..They jsut didn’t want to commit too much…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
anyone who compares
Amare to Rashard Lewis should receive a ban from commenting till after the trade deadline (kidding, kinda..)
by jma67 on Feb 17, 2010 9:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
It’s a comparison in terms of overpaying a 2nd or 3rd best player. Get it?
by underxthebridge on Feb 17, 2010 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
Amare is the BEST player on this team, dude NASH cant carry a team either so why would you put Nash above Amare?
wrong
Nash is better… this team was still really good when Amare was out due to injury…. also Nash has been way more durable than Stat over the years
ARE YOU A MORON?
Seriously, Amar’e the best player on the team? Have you ever watched a Suns game? Watched Nash get every body involved while STAT stands around looking to catch a pass? Watched Nash shoot 50-40-90 for three straight years when the only other player to do it more than once was larry legend?
Maybe Nash can’t carry a team, few point guards can as its their job to get others involved. But Nash carried us to a win in Miami, and is one of the best closers in the game. Amar’e can barely create his own shot on a regular basis .
Moron Dave seriously bro?
Chill yourself lol. I’ve made this argument time and time again Nash can more easily be replaced at 36 years old than Amare. There are 10+ point guards that will give you comparable games to Nash on a nightly basis. There are 5 PF’s that can give you what Amare gives on a nightly basis.
Amare is a much more valuable asset than Nash.
Let's keep it civil please
obviously, passions run high but no need to devolve into an ESPN or AZCentral comments thread…
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
if you had about $20 mil to spend, would you want to have Nash and David Lee or Amare and a PG on the minimum? im not arguing which player is better, but id much rather have nash on his contract then amare for $20 mil.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 17, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
I totally agree
But we’re not getting Lee for 10 mil a year. And Nash took less than he’s worth for the benefit of the team.
Amare is not asking for 20mil and David Lee is overrated
He puts up those numbers in the soft East with only 4 great teams
i know amare’s not asking for $20 mil (pretty sure anyway :)) someone mentioned they would pay amare 18-20 mil earlier up in the thread. i think nash and whoever we could get for for the difference between nash and amare’s salaries is a more cost effective solution. which is why i dont think its ridiculous to say nash is at least as valuable if not more so than amare.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 17, 2010 5:42 PM MST up reply actions
He's not worth 20 million but...
I personally think that a reasonable deal of 4 years and 16-17 million should have been worked out for Amare…Until we see what exactly the offers and counters were, we won’t know what transpired…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Bravo jma.. I agree!
To me, being a fan is about watching your team go for the gusto. When you have a really good roster that is capable of doing good things you want to see them play. It gets tiring always talking about delayed gratification. “This will happen when we get the cap space” or “wow, we could get a low first round draft pick plus a second round draft pick.” or “wow, our shopping list will be awesome.”
I want to win NOW. I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m tired of my teams trading away or failing to sign their key in-house players strictly because of “financial considerations.” I just saw Arte Moreno do it with Chone Figgins and John Lackey, and now I have to watch this crap! Ugghh!!
We've been "winning now"
For a long time. Suns fans are more spoiled than those of almost any other franchise. I’d rather take a step back in order to take two steps forward.
What is two steps forward?
Tanking what is possibly Nash’s last great season?
Telling the fanbase essentially that you don’t care about winning?
That’s not two steps forward, that is ownership telling the fans to take a long walk off a short bridge!
It would be rebuilding with a core that fits properly together
Drafting the right players, and potentially drafting that franchise changing player so that we can eventually win a championship. We’re not winning a championship with this group, unless we get really lucky.
Then again the Barkley teams supposedly had the right mix...
Team was a juggernaut….Just didn’t get it done…Are you sure what the right answer is…Honestly I don’t think anyone knows…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
It's not the only way to do it, of course
But come on, guys … we’ve all heard it in a million cliches … no pain, no gain; it’s always darkest before the dawn; one step back, two steps forward, etc.
Sometimes there are necessary struggles on the way to true greatness.
In a way, this will be a cleansing. Might get rid of a lot of the annoying bandwagon fans that refused to just enjoy basketball and put undue pressure on the team and made that 2007 team so unfun, even though they were at the top of the Western Conference standings.
something to be said
for having fun with young players as well…
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
A lot of fun and trying times as well
I do like younger players too…I just would hate to see the Suns struggling a little as they are tring to reshape
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I get a lot more joy
Out of watching Robin Lopez, Jared Dudley, and Goran Dragic have good games in losing efforts than I did watching the 2007-2008 Suns who were winning a lot of games, but they all looked so stressed out.
They are struggling this year
sub .500 team for 2/3’s of the season
That is even more frustrating
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
At face value it is frustrating...
But what if (I know iut isn’t a grat probability) this current team locks in and plays the way they are capable going into the playoffs. They are capable of a championship…
Think 79 Washington Bullets…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I am ok watching a team rebuild(hell i've been watching the Bucks rebuild for 10 years now)...
but they need to pick a direction… either rebuild or go for it the next few years…. if they try to do both they are going to accomplish neither… i think it is really great fun to watch a young team gel… that is why the kings, grizz, and okc are so fun to watch this year… i’d choose compete now and rebuild later but i cannot stand the middle of the road stance the suns seem to be taking… i guess we will know more after tomorrow though
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
this team already fits together w/
Amare as the 2nd biggest piece! It just doesn’t fit Sarver’s balance sheet..there is no one, not even Bosh, who fits this system @ PF better than Amare, even Nash says that..hell, even Kerr said that last week!! Its all about money, not on the court improvements.
by jma67 on Feb 17, 2010 9:30 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
The Suns have not done too bad through all of this..
10 games over .500 in the competitive Western Conference, isn’t a bad team…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
The line that seperates a championship team and a good one is very small
A lot of it has to do with chemistry, good timing, belief in each other, a little luck and some focus….All very attainable goals..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Well I personally don't think
The Suns as constituted would beat the Lakers or Nuggets in a 7-game series without injuries to Kobe or Melo.
It's all about matchups...
The Suns don’t matchup well with the Lakers (The are too big, too long and too quick on the perimeters), but we matchup well with the Nugs and always play them well. Kinda the luck of the draw come playoff time…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I would agree with Sun God.... AND, I would say jburning that
IF the management is committed to winning, and by that I mean truly committed, then it is a whole different ball game.
That kind of attitude can be felt by the players. The Suns are capable of winning a championship. Yes. Doesn’t mean they will. BUT the key here is that the ownership and management (Sarver, Kerr et al) should be looking for every opportunity to achieve that goal. This is not the Pittsburgh Pirates or the KC Royals. If your team just isn’t talented enough that is a different story. The Suns don’t fall in that boat.
I’ve said many times here over the course of the season that with some minor tweaks and additions they (the Suns) could be right there — and I stand by that. They even have a chance with the current roster as it stands. But the management has to be thinking what can we do to win it all?. I don’t know that they’re in that mental space.
Marcus Camby was just picked up by the Blazers. Where was Steve Kerr while this was going down? He would have been a perfect fit, a perfect addition to the Suns. Camby is the type of player that could move this team closer to a championship, yet the Suns didn’t make something happen. That is what I’m talking about.
What did the Blazers give up? It could have been done if the intention was there…
I agree with you
But the Blazers are also in am much better financial situation, cap-wise, and not every team has an owner who has unlimited resources such as Mark Cuban or Paul Allen or Dan Gilbert.
who would you have given up
for Camby that matched what the Blazers traded?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
We could never have got Camby
clippers basically swapped expiring contracts and got $3million dollars for doing so. As we don’t have any expirings there’s no way we’d have got a deal done.
So let me ask you, why isn't every
team in the league other than CLE, LA, ORL, and maybe DEN trying to rebuild? Because we aren’t a championship team we should blow it up? Hell, let’s just cancel the rest of the season and get to the finals, everyone else can take their team and go home..
I'm sure if Amare didn't have the contract situation he did
We wouldn’t be talking about this. If his contract were not on the verge of expiring or he wanted to re-sign on a reasonable deal that didn’t financially handcuff the team, he’d still be around and we’d still be looking for the right complimentary pieces.
But that’s not the situation. Amare’s put the team in a situation wherein they either break the bank on a player who hasn’t lifted the team to the promised land or they try to get something for him before he just walks away.
Every team has different rebuilding cycles
we are coming to the end of a cycle of contention and will get progressively worse as we get older. Every team has to rebuild at some point.
I’m all for making the playoffs but not going past the 1st/2nd round if i know that the roster will improve and eventually we’ll be cha,pionship contenders. But our roster at the moment isn’t going to contend unless we make serious changes which need a rebuild, instead of hitting the ceiling in the first round for the next 3 years until Nash retires and then we descend into mediocrity for the next ten.
But you dont make a move just to make
a move. I think everyone would agree, as costituted, NONE of these does anything but weaken us. I don’t think any of these are even good enough to toss the season for..
Dude
Our options are this: make a trade and get something, or don’t make a trade and get absolutely nothing. That’s it. There’s no re-signing Amare at this point. A sign-and-trade in the summer depends on if Amare wants to do it, and you never want to do a trade wherein all the leverage is on the player being traded.
Yes, it's a terrible decision to be in
But it is what it is. The FO should have traded him last year.
We're not making move just to make a move
we’re making a move because Amar’e has us over a barrel and he’sgoing to either leave us with nothing or demand a max contract in the summer.
they are not a true contender but aren't far from it...
Washington is looking to give away Drew Gooden and Josh Howard for cap relief… we could try to add one of those guys to our rotation(preferably Gooden and his rebounding skills) and take a step towards that status
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Unfortunately we don't have a market like LA
LA can afford to give an injury prone guy like Gasol 3 years 19 19 per…The Suns just can’t afford to do the same..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I don't believe that
I think the Suns would give Amare the max if they thought he was worth it and it wouldn’t handicap the team moving forward.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
How do we define "worth it"?
If we all had our way, no pro player in any sport is “worth” $20M per year as compared to people who cure cancer, teach our kids, etc. HOWEVER: the bar is such that this is how it works now. So the measuring stick players use to judge themselves and their worth is salary. So I’m not so bent out of shape that Amar’e wants to be paid among the likes of P Gasol or Aldridge…he’s better a better individual talent than both combined.
Now, the issue is that if we pay Amar’e what he “wants” then we can’t afford to surround him with the talent needed to win a title. Or, do we have the makings of that team now, and need another year or 2 with this Suns team to finally get over the hump? Nash and Hill don’t have much time left. And I think we need that balance of mature vets, players in their prime, and young, up and coming talent. The way the team has played lately, I think this team can seriously contend next season. I disagree with those who say we don’t match up well with the Lakers…we’ve shown we can beat them. We just need consistency, which comes with developing chemistry,figuring out substitution patterns and getting people minutes, which Gentry seems to have figured out. Which makes me want to see both sides to whatever is needed to find a middle ground and keep this team intact.
And btw, anyone who thinks that this team is remotely competitive with Nash but without Ama’re is not being realistic. There aren’t many players in the league that can do what he IS doing for us, and for the few that are, we aren’t likely to get them in a trade. LeBron isn’t coming here and neither is DWade. And if Sarver wouldn’t pay JJ, or Marion, nor Amar’e, what makes anyone think they’d pony up to pay the crazy money they’d have to pay either of them? If we can’t reach a win-win deal, then we’re stuck having to try to get the best available deal. But let’s not make it seem that players like Amar’e who can drop 20-10/night grow on trees.
by FunInTheSun on Feb 17, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with you on the part about 20/10 players not growing on trees
But the other part about matching up with the Lakers…Uh uh…The NBA playoffs are all about match-ups. The game slows down, and less fouls are called. More grabbing and pushing, that sort of stuff. In this Phoenix always has the disadvantage because their game is predicated on a free flowing offense. When you factor in the size advantage that the Lakers have at virtually every position, factored in with the length of Odom, Gasol & Bynum, plus the X-factor of commiting resources to stoppping Kobe…It is a tough match-up for the Suns..
Lopez helps with his activity but the Lakers front line is too much for any combo the Suns can toss out there… and the defensive limitations of Nash & Stat compound the problem.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Amare is not asking for 20 - 15-17 for 3 years will do the job
He’s asking for Gaol-like play but we can persuade him to take a bit less if the Suns management convinces him that they are not destroying the team for financial reasons.
So Cook, Q, Wright and Chalmers would "fit properly.." with this group, but
Amare wouldn’t??? Are you crazy? The anger of people on this board is coming primarily because the Suns appear to be entertaining the idea of taking crap back for one of the top power fowards in the game!
true...
i understand what Frost is saying though… we don’t want garbage back for Stat… i agree though… we cannot cripple our cap situation going forward especially with the new CBA in the works
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
The idea
Is not that the Suns want Cook, Q, Wright, and Chalmers going forward. It’s that everyone but Cook has an expiring contract, and if it clears out Amare’s $17.7 million and JRich’s $14m for next season then that gives the Suns financial flexibility to sign new players, make talent-based trades where they can absorb salary, etc.
I think that you're missing the point jburning ...
I understand about clearing the cap space etc., but who do you realistically think the Suns could or would sign?
If I thought there was a decent chance DWade would come here I might feel differently about this. I don’t see any way he or LeBron would come here…
As for Bosh, I don’t really want him. Amare is better. Our best option to win now (by that I mean this season and next, while we are still in the “Nash era window”) is to sign Amare to an extension. I think this makes sense even if you have to “overpay” him by 5-6 million over 3-4 years.
If any of us were GM material we would be working for a team
Instead of beating this dead horse issue that we probably can’t affect…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I am of the same mindset...
I do understand the financial implications of getting all those expirings and the potential benefits of signing top tier FAs and drafting high “can’t miss potential” guys…..But I always beleive in going after it even if it ain’t the perfect scenario…Maybe its all these years of watching the Suns get so close with teams that should have woni it, yet not quite get there…I just hate delaying go after the prize…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Ugh
Man, if Stat goes we better get a good deal for him. I don’t care if they trade or keep him but if they only get 50 cents on the dollar for him I am going to be irate. It is annoying and ironic that in the past we trade away all of our firsts and may really only net cap relief and a couple of mid-round firsts for Stat. I am glad the trade deadline is tomorrow because I want a resolution to this.
i know
i don’t want a trade like the lakers/heat when lakers got like 4 ‘eh’ players for the shaqtus
dude Lakers got the good end of that deal
Didn’t they get Odom, Butler, and first rounder in that deal for Shaq?
Lol Lakers made out like bandits.
shaq then was more dominant than he is now obviously but...
yeah they didn’t get a horrible deal…
if shaq stayed on that team though there is no doubt they(kobe/shaq) would have won a couple more rings together
look
how did they do with all those ‘great pieces’, you hardly ever get a steal of a deal when a star is traded for a bunch of b, yes B players. The candy man (odom) is a great #3 option or even 4, but not a great #2….butler the same (my opinion) which is why i think he’ll do great in big D cuz he don’t have to be the man and didn’t they get brian grant too in that trade, that dude is a freakin beast…oh ya that was a sweeet deal for l.a. and don’t tell me it was cuz they coulda had atleast 2 more titles or more if shaq stayed….so as a suns fan yes it was great.
Butler became Kwame Brown became Pau Gasol
effectively the shaq trade allowed the lakers to get their 2nd and 3rd best guys on their championship team last year.
"The Suns are pathetically cheap. How about Ridnour for Leandro Barbosa straight up?"
a comment on Brewhoop.com…
Sad thing is… Kerr and Sarver might just do this and are “pathetically cheap”
Why aren't the Suns interested in J.O.'s big expiring contract if they're looking to shed salary?
This scenario seems to work for both teams:
Suns get J. O’Neal’s 23m expiring, Beasley + 1st round pick
Heat get Amare and JRich.
Done. Both teams get what they want? (OK, maybe the heat don’t really “want” JRich, but they have to make some concession to get the deal done, right?)
"The mustard is off the hot dog!"
Heat haven't offered that
there’s lots of deals that might interest the Suns but it takes two to tango
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
who really knows...
all speculation, rumor and smoke screens right now
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
or today
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah I think we'll at least find out today
Whether or not Cleveland is getting him. I’m sure Ferry would love to know if he can move on to other targets or not.
or yesterday?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
i cannot wait until something happens... this is killing me
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
We better hide all the razors on Thursday...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Yeah maybe the prize can be an extra two posts a week
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
just ignore SSOHOWARD...
the guy never makes any sense
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Because I disagree with pretty much every single thing you say??
Because 95% of your posts are Amare bashing.
i like amare
i think that he is a star (not superstar) and he isn’t worth 20 milliion….i know iknow you do and that’s fine. I also am nervous bout the trade cuz you hardly come out better when you are trading a star and you get back ‘pieces, money, picks’ BUT you can do it, i just think odds are against you. I wish we could keep amare but it sounds like FO is gonna do dis!!
Please Enlighten me
I guess I’m not following your reasoning? I never make any sense because I
a) LOVE Amare as a player and think he is a top 3 talent at PF
b) would pay him 20 million IF he could stay healthy
c) value HIM more than a 36 year old Nash on this team
d) would rather roll the dice with a 3 year contract and flip him this Summer than let him go for expirings.
please tell me where I am not making sense I’d be happy to clarify anything for you all, I think things will unfold just the way I am describing them.
you occasionally make sense(you throw enough crap some of it will stick right?)
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
Superelkman
Please allow me to clarify anything that doesn’t make sense, you’ve yet to talk about any of my points but argue that I am full of crap, I am more than willing to explain my reasoning for you.
haha,,,,you love to scrap huh??
He doesn’t want a 3 year deal so that won’t happen cuz suns won’t give him 20 million….next, i do think you are ABSURD to think he is better and more valuable than Nash….i think most people agree with me on that and if you can’t understand why then you haven’t played basketball or don’t get it cuz and never will….amare can’t create his own shot, he won’t ‘carry the team’ to a victory singlehandedly and he doensn’t make his teammates better llike nash does….c’mon son can’t you see it!!lol
At 26 years old Amare is more valuable to this team than a 36 year old white guy who doesnt play D.
I am solely basing this point on this year alone going forward. There is much more of a future in Amare for a great team. We know what we are going to get from Nash from this point on, we have all seen ALL of that old pony’s tricks.
Portland would give us Camby and Bayless and a first rounder right now for nash if we offered it to them
the cavs are debating whether Amare is worth giving up the 30th pick of the 2008 draft for.
There's more to it than that
Nash is under a cheap contract for the next two seasons, IF Nash were making 30 over the next 2 I bet they wouldn’t.
If we had Amare locked up for 15 a year over the next two seasons you bet your ass we’d back up the truck to haul away our offers.
In Simmons latest trade value list he mocks Amare wanting a max deal but has Nash listed as the 17th most valued trade piece.
by bangbang240 on Feb 17, 2010 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
+ 1 SSOHOWARD: Ignore the Amare critics becos they are blinded by their hate
Anyone with some sense will take note that Amare improves ovber the years like he’s playing better D until the stupid trade mongering open season started.
He’s also playing as well, if not better than other PFs like Pau Gasol, Dirk, Zach and Big Al.
by magenta on Feb 17, 2010 5:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's proof that Amare wants a 3-year deal like Gasol
Anyone who keeps saying Amare wants 20 mil for 4-5 years are out of touch:
With Stoudemire having undergone knee and eye surgeries in recent years, there are differing perspectives on his market value. Nevertheless, Stoudemire has made a strong comeback from eye surgery this season – averaging 20.9 points and 8.6 rebounds – and impressed rival executives and scouts. Stoudemire has been inclined to use Pau Gasol’s(notes) three-year, $57 million contract extension as a parameter for negotiations, and more than one league executive believes that circumstances will result in Stoudemire getting richly rewarded this summer.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns012510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
that is not true at all... i am just not blinded by my lust for him like you...
i can see he is an inconsistent rebounder and defender and not worth as much money as you would think… i really like amare i can just evaluate him as he is not as I wish him to be…
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Amare is not a bad defender. Tell me what the defensive solution for PHX is, apparently Shaq was a horrible defender but yet Clevland picked him up. So apparently the big man is always to blame on the team right? I don’t believe you understand the game of basketball and what it takes to be a good defensive team not a single big man is responsible for 100% of the fall defensively.
Tell me what PF produces like Amare is better at D? It certainly isn’t Dirk, or Bosh.
by SSOHOWARD on Feb 17, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
for amares athleticism he needs to be more of a shot alterer on defense...
that is just fact… do you really think Amare is a consistently good defender….
lets set a basis for determining this because we can all give our opinions on this…
say we look at defensive rating, adjusted defensive +/-, scouts opinons of Amare…. they all come to the conclusion that Amare is a below average defender… especially for his athleticism…
just from watching the games you can see he isn’t great on D either… just give me something tangible that proves Amare is a good defender… thats all i need to stop talking about the issue
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
LOL i never said he was a good defender, GREAT offensive players usually aren’t equally great defenders. Duncan is teh ONLY exception. I just said that this teams defensive woes aren’t from Amare’s D, and I’ve made this point before that we put Grant Hill on the other teams best player. Can’t you see my point that if a 36 year old guy with ankle problems is guarding Kobe or Lebron we have more issued than just Amare. Amare CANNOT give help D on EVERY possession or else he couldn’t play past the 2nd quarter due to foul trouble.
So the issue here is not any single player on D - no not Amare or Nash it is our system that makes these players such liabilities on the defensive end.
No PF can play defense ALONE in the post, NBA talent is just way to great on the offensive side of the ball.
i dont think amare is the only problem...
it is true that defense does need to be played as a team but amare isn’t maximizing his defensive potential and could really be a force in the middle… camby is a force in the middle and amare is way more athletic than him at this stage in his career… of course it is hard to give max effort on both ends but when you want an insane amount of money you open yourself up to criticism…
here man just take 3 interwebz pride points and let it go
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
LOL you can’t tell me to let something go, when YOU came and attacked me.
Just please Name just 1 player that gives you a great defensive game in the league Today that’ll give you 22+ points and can go for 40 on any given night. Just 1 and I’ll shut up.
Timmy is excluded because he is the best PF who has ever lived— and I wouldn’t dare compare Amare to that.
LeBron, Kobe, D-wade, Howard, Williams, Roy, Paul, Durant, Westbrook,
All those guys could do what you just describe AND bring it on defense.
Eh you messed up with Gasol
Defensive ace he is not…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Fair enough
he’s a better defender than Amar’e though
That's debatable...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Ok these are today’s talent, Garnett gives nothing these days, Gasol is soft and can only rebound better, Wallace — Gerald or Rasheed??
So your argument is that Josh Smith and Dwight are the only players that can give what Amare gives offensively and plays D better?
Fine I’ll take that, but neither one of those guys have the offensive game Amare has, neither shoot better than 60% from the line, and neither can hit an 8 foot jumper.
Gerald Wallace
my point was that most of those guys are on max contracts and they can score as well as STAT and play better D. If STAT wants a max contract then thats what he has to do, if STAT only wants $14million a year then i’m fine with his deficiencies.
Those players cannot score as well as STAT
You cannot even argue that, Amare’s offensive game is the most refined for ANY big man in the league except Dirk.
It depends what you mean by refined
if you mean the array of moves at their disposal then Gasol (both), Lopez, Jefferson, Dirk, Bosh, Ming, Shaq- all have a wider array of moves than STAT.
However, if you’re talking about the amount of PPG then its another story and Amar’e is one of the better scorers in the game.
Thats debateable, Gasol ONLY has a turnaround jumper/fade away, you’ve never seen Brooke Lopez play, Dirk yes, Ming is way to slow and goofy, Shaq is way old.
Since we are talking about today’s game not Ming from 10 years ago or shaq from 8 years ago or Lopez in the future we are only talking about TODAY its safe to say that Amare is #2 behind Dirk
I’m not sure how much Bosh you’ve watched but it is clear his game is not as good as Amare on the offensive end.
My point was that simply for their ability to score in different ways, all those guys have a wider array of skills than Amar'e
which is true, whats debatable is whether STAT needs those moves to score or whether he’s alright with what he’s got. Of course STAT has a big advantage over all those guys in Nash so that affects things.
I don’t know how you can say i’ve never watched Lopez play. I’m in the new york area quite frequently so i actually catch quite a lot, i also saw the Knicks/Nets live earlier this year ad can say that Lopez can score in a wider array of ways than STAT. Maybe you haven’t seen him play?
You don't think Amare's hands help Nash out at all?
Nash gives some dangerous passes to Amare in the lane and Amare always,, err usually makes things happen with them.
Goods hands should be a prerequisite for any team with a great PG
ANy team with a PG like Nash should make great hands a priority when it comes to signing a Big…
How many passses from Kobe went right through Kwame’s hands and clocked him in the head?? A lot!!!!
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Amar'e averages almost 3 turnovers a game
his hands aren’t all that good anymore. Its not like Howard fumbles everything passed to him.
LOL have you seen the Magic play
Howard doesnt get passes to him, and if he does its when he’s posted up, easy entry passes.
75% of howards shots are from offensive rebounds or when he is set in the post. he NEVER puts the ball on the floor for more than 1 dribble, NEVER EVER.
That has been his biggest criticism, that he can’t handle the ball at all.
Look I love Howard
The magic are my team in the east, but it is a STRUGGLE to watch him on the offensive end. Ehh him shooting free throws gives me nightmares.
Still better than most bigs that gets the ball in their hands as much as he does
I watched a Majig game and Dwight had like 7 turnovers…I think Amare’s hands are pretty good
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Howard has never averaged 20+ ppg
All of those players are little guys, not a single one of them guards anyone in the post or has to help in the paint.
I think my point is made.
How am i P'wned?
The only 2 players you gave me are Smith and Howard who play better D for Big Men who have any offensive game.
When that search is refined you see that none of them match my criteria where they have to give you 22+ PPG can go for 40 any given night (Howard nor Smith has ever done this).
Furthermore I love Dwight and Smith but if they don’t grab offensive boards they don’t score, Dwight has ZERO post game.
So if it is so easy to replace Amare why aren’t there more suitable replacements that can match what he gives.?
Amare ha only averaged over 22ppg two times in his career
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
Hes 26 not 26
I don’t think you are making any points Superelkman, if Dwight could shoot better from the line hit shot attempts would go up because teams wouldn’t foul him every time he gets in teh paint. Sorry but Dwights hands are not as good as Amare’s and there’s no way he could run the pick and roll as effectively as Amare runs it.
Amare doesn’t need a post game, I guarantee when he slows down physically he will develop one, but why post now when you are quicker / more athletic than everyone who’s guarding you?
Howard averages 18 points on 9.7 shots a game...
With Nash feeding him easy buckets and more shots he would easily average 25 a game… they don’t need him to be a big time scorer with all the shooters on that team
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
Amare doesn't have much post game either...
he is ok from the high post but alot of his buckets are set up from Nash
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
This thread is going nowhere...
While I don’t agree with everything SSO spouts…the fact is that Amare is probably the most offenisvely polished Big Man in the NBA…Dirk might be better but it ain’t by much..Amare can do a long of things…Inside and Outside and everyone knows it..ve lapses and an indifferent approach to rebounding…Not perfect but not half-bad, either
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
If he played to his potential
He could have gone down as one of the greatest PFs in history…Defensive consistency and his rebounding are lacking
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Who knows, if he had a good defensive coach he could be a great defender. Nobody affiliated with D-Antoni’s crew will ever be a great defensive coach.
Look at George Carl, not a great defensive coach, but bringing Chauncey in made that team a powerhouse defensively.
Thats all Amare needs to be a good defensive player. Something that Gentry or Nash CAN NOT coach.
Thank you Sun God
That is the point I am trying to make.
Big men are defensive stoppers or pure scorers you can’t have both in the same package
He's good, just not worth 20 million
As a PF only Timmy in his prime should command that…Amare still should be a 16-17 million per year player…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
If thats your basis on a max deal
Then I agree with you, but since thats not the leagues basis for a max deal Amare is probably worth close to one. I’m not saying I completely agree with it, but why should Amare have to take less $$$ if he doesn’t have to. We all know he will get close to 20 per from someone.
well, you can, its just rare
Hakeem Olajuwon comes to mind
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
he has the potential and physical tools. i get the feeling that he has let his effort slip the last few seasons in PHX. Maybe a change of scenery and a serious playoff race with the cavs is just what his career needs.
He might rediscover his desire to play defense and put effort into rebounding.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I couldn't agree more
I just won’t put much blame on Amare just being plain old bad at defense, there’s so much this team does that doesn’t help him grow defensively.
The dream was a Center...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
amare plays center at times, Garnett is a PF that was a force on both ends of the floor similarly to hakeem. 4 or 5 it doesnt really matter what you call them.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
But Garnett was the same type of player that Pau is. Post up turn around fade away shooters. That is most of their game, Amare brings much more than that.
KG could go to the rack way better than pau ever could. Its not even close. KG was a physical force with few peers in his younger days.
Moreover, KG was if not the best defensive player in the league he was damn close for a few seasons too.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
KG is fantastic no doubt about that top 3 PF probably of all time, but phisicality was never his strong suit.
polished? somewhat... talented? yes
he is a really good jump shooter for a big and really athletic… he is very very good offensively… he scores on athleticism and a good jumpshot… he is not polished as he does not have an array of moves and counter moves… no one denies that he is really good offensively… but he doesn’t have much of a handle or back to the basket game… there are a lot of things left to polish… i think we are losing focus here… no one says Amare is bad but like a father we are comparing him to what he could be which in my opinion is a lot better
Amare offensively: 8.5/10
Amare defensively: 4.5/10
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
If amare is an 8.5/10 offensively please tell me the 15% in the league for big men that are better. If he is only in the 85th percentile that puts like 10 starting big men ahead of him offensively. 30 teams 1 starting C 1 starting PF = 60 × .15 = 9 better than him based on your math.
didnt say 85% percentile
57% of Amares buckets are assisted according to 82games.com
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
only 48% of Howards are assisted...
So Dwight Howard creates more offense for his team on his own… doesn’t matter how he does it
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Howard might not average 20ppg, but he doesn't average 10 SHOTS a game
give howard the ball as much as Nash gets it to STAT and you can bet your house that he’ll score more.
You also can't argue that
Howard gets fouled every time he gets in teh paint, rightfully so he shoots 55% from the line. And he goes to the line 10+ times per game. Those don’t count as shot attempts.
So howard actually probably gets 15+ shot attempts per game but teams are smart and foul him and let him miss 2 free throws
Stat has only averaged over 22ppg twice in his career
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
So what he's 26 not 36
So make your point please instead of grasping for straws.
You named 2 big men who give you a good offensive game with a great defensive game Howard and Smith
You named 0 big men who give you an immaculate offensive game and a good defensive game.
I'll take that bet with you if you're down
I saw this thing unfold this way last year and nothing happened, I’d be willing to wager that nothing gets done this trade deadline.
Ok I'll do a pretend interwebz bet with you.
Winner gets to say, “I won the pretend interwebz bet!!!”
by jburning on Feb 17, 2010 10:21 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
lmfao...
just spit out my coffee at work when you said that =)
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
SSO, Let's get focused
We have a real issue here to deal with instead of some inane internet bet…let’s move on..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
yeah man you love your interwebz bets...
they really prove a point that you are willing to wager interwebz pride points on things
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
i had to rec this....
i think interwebz pride points should be wagered if we are really serious about things
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
Last year, Sarver didn't anger Amarare over his views on the new CBA
I think Amare saw right there, that he wasn’t going to get what he felt he was worth with the Suns….Offering only a 3 year deal didn’t help either…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I dunno...Sarver kinda talked himself into a corner and Amare has leverage
I think that if he doen’t get traded, it will be a surprise…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Bosh
is not going to phoenix over raptors. At this point in his career the only thing that would convince him to give up 30 mil of guaranteed cash is to win a ring/be on a consistent contender and frankly I don’t think your lineup can match with the other teams (esp in the west). Along this line If I were him it wouldn’t matter to me playing with nash or not. Sure the stats will get pumped up but you already have a max contract in hand, who cares about stats in that case? All about winning imo.
When i said at this point in his career, I mean entering his first long term free agent contract. If he can’t win a championship in another team, why give up 30 mil of guaranteed cash? As someone mentioned before he does have somewhat of an injury history so all the more importance to guaranteed money.
Miami deal doesn't work
We are getting 6 players for 1 or 2, Suns have 2 roster spaces open so it won’t work.
We'll waive some of them straight away
we still have 4 roster spots open.
I know it makes fianancial sense
But this deal won’t go over well with the Suns fans who don’t appreciate that aspect of running a team…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I'm just going to say... suns are screwed
if cleveland gets Amare. Just think if they do then Miami is still going to have a ton of cap & why would Bosh come to Phoenix if he can go play with Wade?
~Jesus~
or maybe Wade comes here...ha!
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
I just got up to get
two hard boiled eggs and more coffee….I was afraid I would miss a trade while I was gone.
anyone else on edge today?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Really..no work gets done at my office till this trade is done...
My manager can’t be happy about this…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
My production is really bad this week.
If Amar’e gets me fired I’m gonna be pissed.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 17, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Wouldn't it be funny
if they just keep Amar’e and nothing happens?
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
That would be AWESOME
Because we would get to do this all over again this summer…any maybe again next Feb!!!!
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
The only good thing to Amare staying and opting in
Is that next trade deadline, we could move him as an expired contract for sure, rather than having this nebulous “Will he be under contract next season or not?” business. But yeah, next year we get to have fun with JRich!
JRich is the best player on the Suns...
there are only 2 SGs that could replace what JRich does… i will bet 40 interwebz pride points on this
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
I would love for JRich to stick around
But again, on a reasonable contract. JRich is worth $8m year or so.
I think it's important to remember who we're talking about here.
http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Stoudemire/Stoudemire_bio.html
a great piece. Remember exactly where STAT started!
I think the Heat would include Beasley if they didn’t have to take J-Rich. Apparently Sarver wants his contract our of there.
I would like the Heat to switch Q with Haslem at least because this deal leaves us with NO PF to start.
I guess Sarver/Kerr thinks the Amundsen & Frye combo is as good as it gets...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I can't see basketball getting any better than that.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 17, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
start Earl Clark!!!
only kidding as he is too raw to really contribute right now but if they go into rebuild mode i could live with it
by Superelkman on Feb 17, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
UPDATE;
Alright just kidding, but this proposed deal of Chamlers, Wright, Cook, Q and two draft picks does NOT work if the Heat are willing to take both Amare and J-Rich.
It completely changes the deal if they are willing to take J-Rich. Oneal would have to be included and some players taken off. If they aren’t willing to take J-Rich than chances are Beasley gets included.
This is just my speculation.
This new Heat Deal.
Me no likey. At least with the Cleveland deal, we get JJ Hickson. I suppose you could argue Chalmers as a potential future PG, but we’ve already got Frosty. I don’t know enough about Cook, et al, to get terribly excited other than when I see 4 players offered for 1, it smells… bad. Is that prize worth 2 1st round draft picks?
At least with Beasley in the deal the Suns have a very movable player on a rookie contract even if they aren’t over the moon about him.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
I'm thinking Suns management is weighing it's perspective options...
That kind of deal would give the Suns plenty of cap space but would endanger its fanbase…A deal with a prominsing or established 4 might ensure a playoff spot, but would likely mean less or no cap space…Me personally, I want the playoffs…You never know what can happen.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Any Chance we could bounce one of those expiring contracts to the Jazz for Ronnie Brewer?
Don’t the Jazz want to cut costs real bad? I’d absolutely love Brewer.
I just want this to end so I can start spinning how the rest of the season will be fun
Rag tag bunch of role players and Steve Nash fight for the right to get murdered by the Lakers. Eh? Eh?
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
I said this in the Game Thread yesterday.
It will be the NBA’s version of the Bad News Bears with Steve Nash playing both the Amanda Wurlitzer and Kelly Leak roles, which, if you’ve seen the movie, could be awkward.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Feb 17, 2010 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
Chad Ford!
Yay! And by “yay”, I mean, is there not a Sam Smith story to link to as well?
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
I just it so odd that Miami
Supposedly hasn’t even offered Beasley or the picks yet. I’m sure Riley is much more adept at the GM game than Kerr and is holding out. He has to be prepared to offer those things, though.
after reading that Chad Ford update
isn’t the only hope we really have as fans that Kerr magically turns the Ilgauskus expiring contract into something of value even though we know Sarver loves himself a good buyout?
It's fun to look at the NBA landscape
and think about all the NBA talent the Suns will eventually buyout of their contracts someday
God, the comment rate is approaching that of a Game Thread
Seth may need to lock this and start a “Amare trade rumour thread — 2nd half of the day” post.
My 2 cents: I look forward to JRich averaging 25 points a game and playing awesome after Amare is gone.
Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!
We still need a starting PF in return...
It’s hard to say “committed” when you would start either Lou or Frye there…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Grass-Root Investigative Journalism Update:
As I was leaving for lunch today I saw Steve Kerr, David Griffin and a few other ‘suits’ sitting down for lunch on the patio of STOUDEMIRE"S DOWNTOWN… Was it ceremonial or just a coincidence? (True Story)
I firmly believe it was a vital step in the trade process because I pressed my ear and heard them talking about how they couldn’t image what Phoenix would be like without Amar’e’s Chicken Penne sandwich… (Could be True Story.. but not really)
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Who knows...Could be a sign of captitulation or total utter contempt...
We’ll find out soon enough…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
*should be imagine, not image
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
THE PROBLEM WITH ESPN SOURCES is they don’t make sense. Wasn’t it just yesterday that they said the Heat were pushing HARD for Amare? Their sources don’t go together; they all say different things.
Either way I don’t think Amare goes to the Heat. There are just too many things holding that deal back. He will either stay or go to Cleveland. Ilgauskas, JJ and their 1st round pick is fine with me as long as we flip Illgauskas for another player or two.
I thought you had a friend of a friend that was an inside source...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Yeah!
you were the guy that got me all pumped up about the possibility of prying away Randolph from the W’s
He doesn’t know everything and things change so fast. As Gentry said, “I’ve heard a lot of big deals that are suppose to happen, but rarely do.” I was paraphrasing.
My friend told me not to believe anything on ESPN and I can agree with him because all the sources are saying DIFFERENT THINGS.
I think the Cleveland deal still happens. JJ, Ilguaskas and a their pick. I think we do flip Illguaskas. Perhaps the Warriors were just speculation, but according to ESPN the Cavs were talking to the Warriors about Corey, so why would they want Corey over Amare? I can see why someone would thing they were talking to the Warriors to get them involved in a 3 team deal.
As I said above, whatever the REAL truth is about what the Heat have offered is just speculation. No one knows and I think there are too many variables holding up a possible deal with them. Chances are that Amare will go to Cleveland tomorrow or stay here. Thats what I think.
Updated thread
w/ latest from Gambo at 620
It’s all just more information….don’t kill the messenger (me)
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Now I am filled with confidence of what will happen...
Think I need to go take another “Subs Trade-Deadline pill”
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Mysterious new team!
Hizzah! Maybe it’s a football team. Cross league trade.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 17, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Are the St. Louis Rams still considered a team?
I heard they were hurting for offensive production
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Amare would be a GREAT
wide receiver
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
Amar'e for the first pick in the NFL draft
Suh would look good in a Suns uniform.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 17, 2010 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
Also reporting that Sun
offered Amare two extra yrs at $14/yr. Suns worried about his MF knee
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
So a total of three years at 45 million total...
A little short of what I expected…Maybe that they only went a total of three years was the no sell point…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
It can't just be the years though right?
I can’t imagine he’s thrilled about the dollars.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 17, 2010 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Well it's better than an insult
But I just think the Suns and Amare are too far away numbers wise…Not that kow for certain, but I would say Amare’s bottom line is probably around 4 years at 65 million…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Man, all this excitement is making me dread Summer
When all there is to talk about is baseball … UGH.
Baseball doesn't drive up my anxiety level like this ...
I guess cuz’ the Suns have been around a lot longer than my baseball team…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Here is my dream deal with the Heat, Suns and 76ers.
Heat get Amare
Philly get Beasley and Q(expire)
Phoenix get Iggy, Haslem(expire) and the two draft picks.
YEA BOY!
We can dream all day...
My dream deal is that we package JRich for Lebron, TGriff for Kobe and Orlando gives us D.Howard out of the goodness of their heart…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I agree that hes not work the max but...
14 mil for two years? come one hes worth more than that…
by IrrationalAgent on Feb 17, 2010 1:47 PM MST reply actions
When added to the opt-in year comes to three at 45 million
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Gambo confuses the heck out of me
There are THREE people(Chad Ford, JA Adande, and Woj) who say that Miami hasn’t offered Beasley.
Gambo mentioned Adande and said there was no truth, MIA’s offering Beasley+expirings+picks.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Lets whip out the ol' BSometer to be sure....
Sorry, it’s overwhelmed by all the crap already on the board….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Gambo: “The Suns are in talks with the Cavaliers about a swap of Goran Dragic and Steve Nash for LeBron James, Michael Beasley, and Jason Richardson’s expiring contract. However, the Suns do not want James, so they’d look to move him next for another player, possibly Luol Deng.”
Listener: “But Gambo, Beasley’s not on the Cavs, Richardson’s on the Suns and his contract is not expiring. And why would the Suns want Deng more than LeBron James? And why would the Cavs want four point guards on their team?”
Gambo: “You’re an idiot and you don’t know anything. If the Suns DO NOT WANT LeBron James. I’ll move back to New York if they keep him.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Thanks for lightening up the mood a bit…!
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Gambo: “The latest is a new team has entered discussions for a 3-way deal that would send LeBron James to the Kansas City Chiefs and the Suns would get wide receiver Larry Johnson.”
Listener: “But, but Gambo … the Chiefs are a … football … team. And Larry Johnson doesn’t play for them anymore, and he’s a running back.”
Gambo: “Which of us is the talk show host? I’m telling you, book it: Larry Bird will be on the Suns on Friday.”
Listener: “But his last name is Johnson …”
- end call *
dudes
i seriously can’t remember any trade rumors getting this intense/constant/oppressive….
usually i love this stuff but now…its making me insane
there’s a game to play tonight, but it doesn’t seem to matter much.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
If Gambo is to be believed, and
Amare OK’d the $, just wanted longer deal, I’m truly crushed…we coulda signed the guy for $13-14 mil a year in a 4-5 year deal, and we’d rather take the turd sandwich er, trade offers from MIA or CLE.. WOW. Good luck going to a franchise with a real owner Amare.
yeah if that is the case where he would get a 4/52 mill deal from us i don't know how you don't give him that
i think the new CBA is really playing into this alot… the suns are scared of the risk involved and amare knows the time is now to get a good deal before the salaries in the nba are reduced… it does seem like the new CBA won’t have fully guaranteed contracts though which is really nice
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13267/amare-stoudemire-high-risk-high-reward
Pretty decent article on Amare
great article
breaks down his game very well
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Amare is a good defender SSOHOWARD? Nope.
“Stoudemire is a lousy defender by most measures. The Suns are 3.5 points better when he’s on the bench and opposing power forwards have put up a player efficiency rating (PER) of 20.2 against Stoudemire this season. That kind of performance won’t get the Cavs where they want to go and Stoudemire would have to step it up on the defensive end of the floor: “For Amare to be effective defensively alongside of Shaq, he’d have to be active on the perimeter, show on pick-and-rolls, and discourage opposing teams from hitting easy jumpers as Shaq sags back to shut down the paint. With Amare’s knees, it’s an open question whether or not he could handle that responsibility even if he had the desire to do so. And it’s a very open question whether he’ll ever develop the desire to do so.”
Amare is playing better D this season and he's not asking for 20 mil
Kindly check how well the other team’s PF plays when matched up against Amare.
And the rookies can spend their efforts playing better D because they can’t be relied upon to score points efficiently and regularly.
considering the 2yr $14 million extension...
Why would the Suns FO leak that they didn’t want to offer more than the 2yr extension due to concerns over Amare’s MF knee? Wouldn’t this information further reduce the team’s leveage in trade talks? Maybe they’re trying to save face in the event that the trade is less than stellar and perceived widely as cost-based.
good question
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 17, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
Alternatively...
perhaps leaking this information may influence the $$ and length of the contracts floated by the Heat and the Cavs to Amare’s agent should a trade get closer to fruition. A consequence may be that Amare and his agent come to the realization that interested teams don’t perceive him as a Max contract player. This may help the Suns keep Amare another year to mull over contract offers or sign-and-trade options, especially if he and his agent come to find that, by not opting out, the $17 million for 1 yr is the best deal he’ll get for now.
Sources indicate Cleveland Cavaliers getting close to acquiring Amar'e Stoudemire
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/sources_indicate_cleveland_cav.html
CLEVELAND — There are indications the Cavaliers’ chase of Amar’e Stoudemire is about to reach a climax.
While the Phoenix Suns were still hoping to allow for more time, both to weigh the big decision and to see if other bids for the All-Star forward emerge, they are being pushed by both Stoudemire and the Cavs to make up their minds.
According to sources, as time runs out before Thursday’s trade deadline and with other trade options on the table that the Cavs need to decide on, the organization has turned up the heat and is attempting to get the Suns to take or leave the Cavs’ trade offer. It is believed to center on Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson but would involve one more player and perhaps a draft pick.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
CAN YOU DIG IT?!
I certainly can’t.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
That's sort of misleading.
It says the Suns are close to making a decision either way. I think at this point, there’s a pretty strong chance the Suns decide to pass on Cleveland’s offer and ride it out to the deadline.
WHO WILL WIN?
This man:
This guy:
or
This guy?:
…….
…….
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
so no cleveland trade?
PDcavsinsider
Washington Post reports the Cavs have traded for Antawn Jamison
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I hope the mystery team is...
The Sacramento Kings….
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygna4zt
That trade totally wouldn’t depress as a trade for Hickson would of done.
Also, I am interested…why do you think the Amare/Cleveland deal didn’t go through?
Did all of the talks of Amare NOT wanting to play in Cleveland have something to do with it?
How about the Amare/Shaq continuing drama?
Did Lebron James make the choice to get Jaminson who has been linked there for over a year…
Does Kerr not appear to have down syndrome like first thought?
On a side note I think Jaminson in the short term fits better in Cleveland, he can help space the floor and will fit in right away…Rather than Amare which for sure would take an adjustment period. Also, Cleveland gets to keep the most over hyped 7 PPG, 4 RPG player in history in JJ Hickson.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
+1: Sacramento is trying to get rid of Sergio and Martin
“Does Kerr not appear to have down syndrome like first thought?”
Maybe we can get Sun’s meds to take a look at him? Who knows? He may experience a revivial like Grant Hilll…
Take a look at this one....
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylycaxo
If we couldn’t resign Amare wouldn’t you do that in about two seconds?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Also, the Kings wan’t to get rid of Martin and Sergio…PLUS, Thompson has been in the dog house and is now coming off the bench.
If Amare doesn’t resign…Who cares, the Kings are already about 2 million under the cap, with his expiring deal plus Kenny Thomas’ deal they’d have around 25 million in cap space to play around with (approx)…I’m sure they could get two nice pieces to play along Evans and Greene.
I would LOVE to take Beno Udrih if he didn’t have such a big contract.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I think both teams used the rumour to get everything going. Cleveland got who they really wanted. Still wating on us
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 17, 2010 5:49 PM MST up reply actions
The Trade Machine wont load for me but a the trade I did was…
Sergio, Martin, and Thompson for Amare, Collins, and Griffin.
We could also do Amare/Barbosa for Thomas,Sergio,Martin,Thompson…Although I think Sac would rather have the cap space.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
It;'s a lie to keep saying Amare is asking for 20 mil
With Stoudemire having undergone knee and eye surgeries in recent years, there are differing perspectives on his market value. Nevertheless, Stoudemire has made a strong comeback from eye surgery this season – averaging 20.9 points and 8.6 rebounds – and impressed rival executives and scouts. Stoudemire has been inclined to use Pau Gasol’s(notes) three-year, $57 million contract extension as a parameter for negotiations, and more than one league executive believes that circumstances will result in Stoudemire getting richly rewarded this summer.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns012510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
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