The Final Hours of Phoenix Suns Amare Stoudemire Trade Talks (with a surprise inside!)
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 7:36 AM MST
in Commentary
416 comments
This is it. Just a few hours left in the high stakes game of Star Swap before the Phoenix Suns pick up their Amare Stoudemire and go home empty-handed. Despite all the sturm and angst it seems like another trade deadline that will pass without even a whisper for the Suns.
A recap of where we stand and how we got here. It's been a bumpy ride.
- Reports are still conflicting over what happened with the Cavs. Did the Suns wait too long to pull the trigger on the Hickson and Illgauskus deal or did the Cavs decide to go with Jamison so they could keep J.J.? At this point, we really don't know. Sources from Cleveland and Yahoo! report the Suns backed out, but Phoenix-based media reports the Cavs pulled Hickson out of the deal which tanked it.
- Late last night we learned from Paul Coro that the Suns were actually trying to flip Illgauskus to Utah in exchange for Carlos Boozer who also is an expiring contract. Surely, Utah would have wanted more than Big Z's expiring, though. Right? Unless maybe they thought they could get by with just Milsap and this deal got them under the luxury tax. Regardless, it didn't happen and quite honestly it is going to be difficult to know which side of the story to believe since all parties have an interest in spinning things.
- No doubt that trading Amare for a Boozer rental and Hickson would have been quite a coup for Kerr. Too bad his buddy Danny Ferry backed out. Or did he?
- We do know that the Cavs are out of the picture, which leaves the Heat. Once again, the reports are all over the map on what the Heat are actually willing to give up. We've heard everything from Beasley and both of their first round picks to a lame mix of expiring contracts.
- We heard the Suns might be trying to get a third team involved so Amare goes to the Heat and various Miami assets go somewhere else with another piece coming back to Phoenix. The Bulls and 76ers with Deng and Iguodala were mentioned. Maybe the Heat can send expirings to Utah to get Boozer to Phoenix? Doubt it, right.
- Once the Cavs deal for Jamison was announced Wednesday afternoon we started hearing a lot of noise about Amare staying in Phoenix to finish out the year. This could be smoke from the Suns camp to try and create leverage with Miami who probably still want Amare, or it could be true. Or it could be both.
- Extension discussions between the Suns and Amare seem seriously stalled with Amare's agent publicly saying yesterday that he expected Amare to be traded. Of course, it benefits Amare to be traded because his new team would have his Bird rights this summer which gives Amare more strength when it comes time to negotiate his next deal.
- The Suns reportedly offered Amare 2 years on top of his final year at about $14m per. That would have netted him $45m over the next three years. Amare was looking for a couple more years but supposedly not asking for the max. The max for Amare btw would be 6 years for a total of $138m so there's a big gap there. That would be the max for a new contract. The max extension (I believe) would have been 3 years at about $57m which is what Pau Gasol got. That would give Amare a total of 4 yrs and $74m. You can see why they are so far apart.
That's pretty much where things are on the morning of the trade deadline but of course, it is not over until 3pm EST (1pm Arizona time) and it is possible for deals to come in after the deadline if teams have notified the league in time. Stay tuned. Anything could still happen (But probably won't) (But might).
My thoughts
It is hard to know exactly what the Heat offer really is or what happened with the Cavs but I remain of the opinion that Amare staying the rest of this season and opting out is the worst case scenario for the Suns.
Even a bad deal now would be better than getting nothing in July. Of course, a horrible deal might be all that's on offer and that would mean a bunch of expiring contracts and only one draft pick. That's not enough. But two draft picks and some kind of player with either legit prospects or a proven experience is enough for me.
If Amare stays, which is looking more and more likely, that means we are right back here in June when Amare gets to decide if he's picking up the final year of his contract ($17m) or opting out to try and get more money before the new CBA. Despite what some people (...Jon Barry) think, Amare would be foolish to pick up that final year.
I already wrote a few thousand words about that, and nothing I've seen since changes my mind. Amare can get more years and more money this summer as a free agent then he can by picking up the $17m and waiting until 2011 when the new CBA will be in effect. I don't care one whit about what Amare says regarding this. That's just noise.
However, the BEST CASE for the Suns is for Amare to do just that. If he picks up that final year than the Suns can keep this entire team in tact and roll into next season as is. They will be at $63.5m with 10 players under contract. Even allowing for a drop in the luxury tax, they should have enough to re-sign Lou Amundson and grab a few cheap end of benchers.
The Amare fans will be happy. The Suns won't be paying the tax. The team can give it another go and will likely be right where they are now - a decent team who will win more than they lose but not be a threat to contend. Most importantly though, they will go into 2011 with a TON of cap space.
We should be right back here in February 2011 talking about the how much value we can get for the expiring contracts for Amare and Jason Richardson (a combined $30m). Many teams will be spending a lot of money this summer and loading up on contracts, the Suns will go into the new CBA without any long-term deals. That could put them in a very favorable position if teams need to suddenly dump contracts for good players.
It delays the inevitable rebuilding and takes one more year of Nash's remaining basketball life, but all things considered it is the best option for the Suns. Pray for Amare to opt in.
The WORST CASE for the Suns unfortunately, seems the most likely scenario. Amare finishes this season and opts out. At that point, the Suns can try for a sign and trade but that doesn't seem feasible. Why would a team that wants to sign the unrestricted free agent, Amare Stoudemire, need to send the Suns anything for the privilege of doing so?
There's only two reasons I can think of for the Suns to get something back in a sign and trade:
a) There's a bidding war for Amare and one team wants to be able to get his Bird Rights so they can offer him more
b) A team without cap space wants to trade contracts with the Suns get him.
There aren't too many examples of sign and trades in the NBA because these scenarios just don't come up. If we we're talking about LeBron James then sure, I could see that. But I don't imagine many teams are going to be willing to give up anything - let alone more than the Suns could have gotten this week - for the free agent, Amare Stoudemire.
So, before you start celebrating Amare staying in Phoenix, just remember where the Suns are going to be come July. No Amare. No first round draft pick. And a payroll of about $46m for nine players (assuming both Frye and Hill pick up their options). That's about $7m under the projected salary cap which is not going to be enough to replace Amare.
If they had done the Cavs deal they would have a young PF prospect, a late first round pick and about $5.5m in cap space. Which is better?
The best news of all. We get to do this all over again in June and maybe next February and in June 2011 too!
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If Amare walks and we are left with 0
I will be a sad panda.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Feb 18, 2010 12:08 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I love how you always have pictures
For everything. It’s great.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 18, 2010 12:48 AM MST up reply actions
How about a pic of the South Park character instead
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
It’s hard to sort through all the misinformation with these things. What I’ve been able to put together is this:
The Cavs never made an official offer to the Suns.
The Cavs never spoke with Amare’s agent
My instinct before reading your blog and anything else from the Phoenix media was that the Cavs never officially put Hickson on the table. I am sure it was discussed and considered. The most reliable reports consistently said Phoenix was more interested in Cleveland’s offer (possibly with Hickson, that is) than whatever the Heat were offering. So, I think Ferry and Kerr discussed a trade that would include a draft pick and an expiring contract and possibly Hickson, and that just sort of sat on the table while it was slowly leaked to the media. Kerr was probably sincerely interested, but probably also didn’t mind setting a smoke screen for his buddy Ferry. This drove the price down for Jamison, who I believe was the Cavs target all along. Remember the Wizards were supposedly looking for a better offer – and that clearly never came (although it sort of did in the form of the three way trade which landed them Thornton). I think if the Cavs were truly ready to pull the trigger and offer Hickson, Kerr would have done the deal. Likewise, I think the Cavs would have been in some contact with Stoudemire’s agent. Remember at least one report said the Cavs had not been granted permission to speak with Stoudemire’s agent. Yet, Miami had been given permission. So, the Cavs may have been running interference for Phoenix as well.
I like the way
you think my friend. Great point about the Cavs not talking to Amare’s agent while Miami was.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 12:40 AM MST up reply actions
That makes a lot of sense to me
I honestly think Kerr and Ferry were kind of playing a game to help each other out…I just don’t think they could hold it together long enough for both to get what they wanted…Seems like Riley & Philly didn’t bite on the scheme and Kerr was left holding the bag…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I think Phoenix's end game was to try to get Iggy and a serviceable PF in the deal
May stay happen, but the likelihood has gone way done…Now I am afraid of the situation we find ourselves in…Possiblity of worst case scenario (Amare staying and opting out) may make Kerr get desperate and make a really bad trade that hacks off the fanbase
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Kerr
Better be staying up late tonight and working those phones. Maybe, this will be a wake up call for Amare and his agent to realize that he might not be worth as much as he thinks and that the 17 million he would make next year will be the most money he ever see’s for one year.
Remember, The Suns have made deals with about one minute on the clock so we’re down to the homestretch…Right now we have to take what we can get…Beasley or Deng. It’s just so damn frustrating and confusing….we heard all of these reports and “insider information” and we did we happened? Nothing. Maybe Cleveland and Phoenix were using each other to attract other teams…The Cavs get there end of the bargain…Whats up with Phoenix?
Also, were the Rockets not interested in Amare at all? they just traded there most valuable asset for Kevin Martin..I remember hearing an offer involving us getting landry…that sounds much more appealing now than the potential of Amare leaving for nothing, not having any tradeable assets and not having any cap space.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
If Amar’e walks for nothing than I think we should officially REBUILD. I think we should trade Nash, J-Rich, Hill, and Barbosa. Anyone agree with me here?
Ya know what really grinds my gears?
Lets say, trade happens with whoever. All the programs (ie: sportscenter, gametime) are going to be talking and focusing on the team that receives Amare. It’ll all be talk about Amare improving the other team. Nobody is going to mention anything about us. No matter who we get, there wont be talk about us becoming a better squad or becoming a contender.
Only b/c those guys
are short-sighted and can’t look beyond the current season
Take the Kings – all we are going to hear about is how the Rockets got the better player in Kevin Martin while no one will realize that not only did the Kings get a solid piece in Landry (who might be a tad over-hyped at this point) but they also dumped $7m in cap space so they enter the Summer w/ about $33m on the books in addition to having a good draft pick, Tyreke Evans and a bevvy of other solid young players.
They are the next Thunder, but people don’t realize it yet.
I would rather be them then us.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 7:41 AM MST up reply actions
for sure
I’m willing to bet the Kings are back in the playoff picture as early as this next season, but more likely in 2-3 seasons like the Thunder. Evans is a future all star, they have a winning coach, and now they have cap space and a top 8 draft pick for next season in a deep draft.
I did forget
that the Kings are reportedly sending T-Mac to the Knicks and getting Jarred Jeffries and Jordan Hill in return.
That eats up $9m in cap space for next season which gives them about $10m under the cap instead of $19m.
Not as good I guess unless you think that those two players can really help that team and given their poor defense, having Jeffries might not be such a bad thing. Have to see how that plays out today.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 8:07 AM MST up reply actions
Isn't Landry an expiring contract?
that situation will probably resolve itself int he summer
Well, Seth I don't totally agree...
While I understand why Sacramento did this — they need to make room for Tyreke — the team couldn’t hold both he and Martin (one had to go), I wouldn’t be celebrating it in Sactown. Martin is a pretty damn good player. Martin is > Landry. AND 7 mil in cap space is not that much. How much room do they have under the cap now? I guess I would save judment until after the summer. IF they are able to bring in some good pieces or a star they you could say slamdunk for Sac, but I’d wait until then before praising a move made out of necessity.
Just like with us; if that Cavs trade for Hickson and Bigz had gone through it could have been defended as a move out of necessity. But being a move out of necessity doesn’t necessarily make it a good move.
FWIW
I’ll take Landry over Kevin Martin any day
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
They're going to have a sick lineup when Yao comes back though
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
You think Yao will be the same?
They will certainly be able to compete when Yao gets back. I hope he can still ball but that was a pretty nasty injury.
still time...
The deadline is 1pm Thursday Arizona time…. that’s 8pm GMT, I guess 9pm in central Europe.
ahaaaa... I thought it is 1am :-)
I will be at the movies around 9, so I hope it happens earlier :-)
were so getting nothing for amare, i can see it all ready.
Miami will be rubbing there hands together knowing there gonna get him at the end of this year without having to give up ne one.
Steve Kerr may aswell pack his bags at the end of this year cuz if amare walks off and suns get nothing fans will go crazy.
Kerr can't possibly get good sleep right now...
The circumstances have put him in a tight spot…Let’s see how he handles it.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Well Kerr's done it again
Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. We could have had 2 first round picks, we could have had beasley, we could have had hickson, we could have had the cavs pick, but come this summer we’re going to have nothing. Bravo.
-1 DaveJD: Miami keeps stressing that Beasley was never on the table
As for Hickson, nah.
More trade deadline melodrama that goes nowhere.
Getting seriously old … major case of blue balls here.
Nevermind
Just read they have to give up Carl Landry for it to happen. So not as much of a coup as I thought.
Giving up Carl Landry makes this a wash
But I bet it’s good to be rid of TMAc and his contract…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
T-Mac rerouted to NYK!
NYK unloads Jeffries AND keeps Jordan Hill. Nice move for them.
I wonder how T-Pain’s corpse will fare in Mike’s offense.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Thats too bad I was so excited that Houston benched TMac a whole season so he couldn’t land a large contract this offseason, looks like he probably will get another 60-80$ million dollar contract…. how unjust.
Nah nobody's going to give him more than the MLE methinks
He’s got almost nothing left. If he shows some promise, then somebody might give him like 8-10 mill TOPS.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I HOPE you are right
But you never know man, some team that didn’t land a marque free agent this summer may give him 12+ to get people in seats… and then TMac and his childish ways have won, which would be a poor example for all the youngsters on how to conduct yourself in the league…
Next season is gonna be pretty bad
No Amare and no replacement power forward. What will be worse, is if the Suns FO goes into this summer and spends what little cap space it has on a half-ass free agent and signs them for anything more than a 1-year deal.
Hey, at least we have our pick for next year!
according to
Fanhouse.com, after a meeting w/ Robert Sarver “Phoenix forward Amare Stoudemire confirmed to Fanhouse he won’t be traded by Thursday’s deadline..” How much you guys want to bet there’s an extension before the season ends?
That is a possiblity
I have always said Amare generally likes it here…Even though he said all the right “professional” things, I have long felt that Phoenix was his home and he would be a little afraid to leave us. Sarver should have long capitalized on that and signed him to an extension at a hometown discount instead of putting him through these trade rumors every year. The only thing that has done is made Amare feel that he is worth more than he really is.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
just wondering
why do you think that in this crazy FA summer, when max contracts are going elswhere, there will be those willing to give him much more that he can get here for extension? they offered 14, ok, but negotiations will continue, so they can compromise… and if we go sign-and-trade to get some valuable piece for jrich and/or barbs, providing that nash keeps on at this level and bench imrpoves further, we could be contenders next year…
I don’t know, at the end I wouldn’t like to see him go, even with all lapses he is (has been) showing…
I have no problems
with him as a player as long as the Suns don’t over pay or commit too long to him b/c of his knee.
Maybe your right and they will end up closing the gap and extending him and he stays for a few more years. I’m good with that for sure.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
Same here
I’d love to see Amare extended. No doubt that he makes our team better. If it is a matter of length of his contract, I would tack on another year at $14-15 million easily, but I’m not the Suns front office.
add a year and $1M per
if that’s what the guy want, it’s not a bad deal at all. another team could offer him more, but that would take some serious consideration to put more than $15M against your cap for Amare.
Amare can do something like that and prove that he’s the better man than Marion — just like last night’s defensive posterization
Mmmmm ... Guinness
15-16 Million a year for 4 years does not seem excessive for Amare
Especially when we consider that its very unlikely we could get a young big that will develop into a player of similar capabilities. Now that the trade deadline is looming closer and us unlikely to swing a deal, getting a free-agent that would bring it as a PF will cost us, especiallly in the feeding frenzy that will be free-agency this summer.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I truly believe the Cavs deal was just leverage for them to get a better deal on Jamison
I’m excited to see what happens… when the deadline passes and Amare isn’t traded maybe they will seriously resume talks as more pressure will be on Kerr to get it done or lose him for nothing…
Until what time in the year can teams negotiate extensions?
I damn well hope so
i don’t see him staying in the summer, other teams will probably be willing to pay him more. It could be a loooong season next year. At this point i think we have to give him whatever he wants to make him stay or we don’t have that much to replace him in the summer :-(
Even though I might be
President of the Pro-Amare camp, I’ve always said the Suns cannot max him out..that’s why hearing his agent say he thought they were close & Suns went in another direction, and Gambo saying they were fine on $ annually, just not length was so disappointing..signing Stat to a REASONABLE extension is, far & away the best option, nothing we would get back is anymore than 50 cents on the dollar..can’t wait for 1pm today to start talking about actual on court activity again!
by jma67 on Feb 18, 2010 9:03 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I thought $ 14-$16 per would
Be fair, if Gambo’s to be believed, they agreed on $12-$14 per..that’s a GREAT deal for Suns if true..hell, that’s less than JRich!
by jma67 on Feb 18, 2010 11:53 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'm Hoping
JRich and LB for Iggy and Dal. We’ll be monsters this playoffs. Iggy solves our backcourt and perimeter D problems while still scoring, rebounding and assisting more than JRich, Dal gives us a solid post defender to cover for Stat’s deficiency while Lopez grows
I just don't think this happens..
I am not sure if Philly knows what it wants to do…Doesn’t really seem like they have tried very hard this trading deadline…They might be waiting till the off-season.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
TRADE NOW SEEMS UNLIKELY
Sarver has apparently told Amar’e he’s unlikely to be traded….
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924306
Which means we get to go throuogh all this again very soon! Faaaantaastic
Our last ditch hope
Is that all of this “Amare’s staying” stuff is being leaked, as Seth stated, to drive up his value again.
It ain't over till the clock hits one...
You never know what will happen…but for now it looks like he is staying put.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Why do you guys think Amare walks for nothing?
Point is we know what he wanted in an extension before the trade deadline 3 yrs @57 million. These numbers were all discussed weeks ago so we know where we stand. But suppose Sarver and Kerr would give him what he wanted but wanted to test it out to see what they could land for him? This would have been a great opportunity to see his value before the trade deadline to give the Suns more options than just resigning Amare without testing trade possibilities.
This scenario would be the perfect set up for Amare and the Suns either way. It would provide options but also wouldn’t create hard feelings with Amare in the event that he stays— and it seems as though it hasn’t—- Amare is okay with this deal because we would ship him to a desirable location — MIami or Cleavland.
Think about it: the Philly trade was all speculation in the first place and the Suns never considered sending Amare to Philly because it would be a breach of their private agreements. Certainly if Sacremento is looking to ship Martin off for spare parts we could have been in on that if we wanted to.
Its kind of an odd coincidence that the only 2 places Amare was talked about going was team who is a legitimate contender and a homtown team. You can look around the league and find teams that would die to land Amare and willing to give away expirings and picks for him but these trades weren’t considered. But there were 2 crap trades considered highly above all others… this is either really bad journalism or there’s more going on behind the scenes than it appears.
Interesting...
I just seems weird that the Suns would put Amare through this every year and then not trade him….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I'm not sure last year they did it my way
But this year I don’t really have any doubts that this is the way it played out. I think that the Suns and Amare have better relations than everyone thinks, and if that’s the case this *wink wink deal could have been done with no hard feelings.
I just don’t think the Suns are as dumb as most of you guys in this forum think they are, letting him go for JJ Hickson should have been a bright RED BS FLAG for you all but most of you fell for it. The same goes for a trade for an overpriced swing man — Iggy and a C — Dally who is making nearly as much as Amare but has no offensive game to speak of. Since these were the offers you can be sure the Suns were never looking to trade Amare for these crap parts.
On the extreme side to the possibilities (which I don’t believe just throwing it out there) is that we could trade Amare for picks this year and he will opt out of his contract and come back.
I should be netting some virtual ego dollars due to the slew of bets I have made over the last week about him being traded, but I’m not sure they will pay up.
why would that be?
i’ve never said anything that isn’t true about amare… i don’t bash him offensively and i think most nba scouts would agree with me that his defense and rebounding is subpar… sure he has those games with a ton of boards and those games like last night with signature blocks but he does not and never had brought it consistently…
i like Amare… he is a solid player… i only bash what needs to be bashed
atleast i dont suck his balls like you do
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Dude we had a 30 minute argument yesterday about his offensive game
So obviously you aren’t only “justly” bashing him you are rapping off a lot of crap on these posts as well. I just don’t think you see the big picture and the situation with the kid, and thats okay whatever stew in your misery he will be a Sun for the long haul. And I called it.
My point yesterday is that Amare is a great #2 option but can't create like some other teams #1 options
I think most people would agree you are the biggest crap talker ever
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
You can say what you want but EVERYTHING I've said has come true and is the truth, I've said nothing that isn't true.
A lot of people may not like to hear these things that I say even though they are truthfull. And I piss the likes of you off but I’m not just going to sit by and watch some of this crap be spilled out all over these posts about Amare being the problem in Phoenix.
Bottom line is its easy to make him the fall guy and overlook the other players. It has been really easy to blame him for EVERYTHING which is what you people have done to the kid over the last couple of years but the bottom line is your GOLDEN BOY in Nash or Marion haven’t exactly been great for this Phoenix team. And truthfully have been bigger problems than Amare when it comes to winning a championship.
Nash will NEVER win a championship unless he is a backup on a great team, the dude CANNOT carry a team and his lack in defense creates too many problems not even ALL MIGHTY Tim Duncan could fix being in the back lines of D.
Nash can only win a championship if he's a backup?
What?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
man you really are further up your own ass than your are Amare's...
wow… good job man you made two correct predictions… given all the crap you spew what is your batting average at now? 5%?
I never made Amare the fall guy but naturally we are going to criticize him at a time there is trade talk and extension talk. Everything I criticized is absolutely true about Amare. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player but you really are obsessed with Amare despite all the defensive and rebounding metrics to prove he isn’t great in these categories.
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
Please tell me what is untrue, I've yet to hear anything on your part about what I'm saying thats untrue.
You keep saying I am full of it but whats did I say that is false just list it off please!!!!! Again you may not like to hear bad things, but you have for the last couple of weeks bad mouthed Amare relentlessly and unjustly.
I can name a laundry list of things that the Suns could do to improve defensively and Amare isn’t at the top. Since we all know defense wins championships please tell me how Nash fits into that mold of championship teams.
read the defensive stats on amare... look at his rebounding rate compared to other bigs
both are below average… you constantly choose to omit these facts and blindly say he is good at defense and rebounding
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
I didnt say he was good
I said given a different system or a coaching staff who knew how to coach D he would be good. Since those two things aren’t going to happen we are in a bind
Guys - be fair - Amare and Nash won't carry our team to a ring
We lack a lot of good parts and our rooks still don’t cut it.
We will only see just how good they are in the play-offs
Watch this video and tell me what you don't agree with
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13267/amare-stoudemire-high-risk-high-reward
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
SO Howard, do you think a team could win a championship with Amar'e as its best player?
because thats basically what you’re saying by suggesting we give amar’e the max.
but you did heavily suggest you are a douche
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
Lol
Are you mr big man superelkman to call people names behind a keyboard. Lol I’ve never said anything rude or called you names bro
true...
name calling is ridiculous so i’ll stop…
i just don’t know how you can defend the position that Amare is a player capable of leading a team to a championship or the position that he is a good defender/rebounder
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Again I never said those things
I never said Amare could lead us to the promise land, I said he is NOT NOT NOT the fall guy here for our problems. And if you wanted to make a player a fall guy THEN Nash would be more suited for that position than Amare would be, since it is in fact Nash’s poor defense in the first place that exploits Amare’s bad help D.
Nash has the Def IQ and not the ability
Amare has the ability but not the Def IQ
JMO
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I will confirm that.
The idea I am trying to portray is that this whole thing is reallly messed up the ENTIRE TEAM is completely screwed up and its not Amare’s defense that should even be discussed. There are plenty of other issues that can be fixed to make us a very good team on the list before Amare’s average D. (And Yes when comparing Amare to his Peer group his D is average definitely not poor).
didn’t you all want Al Jefferson in this trade…? Man you all would have had heart attacks with his defensive effort on a nightly basis, it makesAmare look like Hakeem.
Is average D going to win a championship from your most talented big man?
No but it certainly won’t hurt you when he drops 30 a night.
And a PG that plays no D won't cut it in the play-offs without good wing defenders
U know, like the ones Kerr traded away…
Man you really think Nash couldn't win a championship unless he is a backup? That is ridiculous...
And as far as their defensive value relative to eachother look at some stats not your wild opinion
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2009-2010&team=PHX
The Suns are 5.5 points per 100 possessions worse when Amare is on the floor defensively… opposing PFs have a PER of over 20 against Amare
Nash makes the Suns only 2.5 points per 100 possessions worse on defense
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
That explains why oppoing PGs have career nights against Nash
who in turn have a free hand dishing to their bigs to raise their Per against Amare
And yes Superelkman you did say Amare's Offensive game is only an 8.5/10
Which would make 10 starting PF’s or C’s better offensively than him, if there isn’t a bigger false statement than that I don’t know what is.
What if nobody's a 9.5 or 10 out of 10?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
exactly my point...
and again since you are really f’in stupid… Amare is very efficient at what he does.. so much so that he doesn’t need to be a creator with Nash on this team… but his game is limited enough that when Nash is gone and we have to pay him tons of money to be our main guy things will not be as rosy for him offensively… combine that with the fact he is deficient at the other end of the floor and he isn’t the god your portray him to be
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
You can’t put a ranking system together where nobody is at the top, what would you be ranking then? Amare to the entire list of players of all time? That really seems pointless.
So if you are going to give the kid an 8.5/10 there has to be 15% of big men in the NBA who are better offensively than him…. I just dont see it.
But there doesn't have to be a 10/10
10/10 means perfect, and nobody’s perfect.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
This is a comparison statistic.
How would you even guage him at an 8.5 out of 10 overall for offense, that is just a subjective number when you don’t have any 10/10 to do the comparison to.
Well, forget the comparison stats then
All he’s saying is this: Amare’s a dangerous scorer, a poor defender, and a mediocre rebounder. It would be unwise to make him the best player on your team. 2nd banana, not alpha dog.
And I agree with him. I don’t think that our opinions are unreasonable.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
And i'll make my point
It is furthermore unwise to make Nash your teams 1st option, given his unsuccessful career in the playoffs.
Jason Kidd has been to the finals twice and he is a horrible shooter, good creator and amazing defender.
That combo takes you further than Nash’s “pristine” shooting %’s
So the best team we could put together then
Would be a team that hides their defensive deficiencies by surrounding them with defensive role players. We had such a team at one point in time, with Raja, Marion, Boris and Kurt. That’s why we were so dangerous.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Yes I would have loved to keep them all
But those players were unrealistic to keep,
Raja- got old and fell off
Marion- wanted too much money
Boris- ehh he’s boris
Kurt- Made room for Shaq
There were more issues here than just we ditched our core because we were bored, problems arose that led us to those decisions.
lol Iverson is no Duncan man
Iverson’s teams were absolutely terrible outside of his miraculous Finals run
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Thats fine man
But the whole east was bad, it wasn’t like the Nets were a powerhouse, they sucked in teh East too but Kidd carried them to the finals.
Put Kidd's Nets in the West and they don't make the WCF
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
In an absolutely terribly atrocious conference
Dude…we had to go through Tim Duncan, the best PF of all time. Nets got completely rocked by a relatively weak Spurs team(compared to their other champ teams)
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Exactly
Kidd’s crappy team got to the Finals because it was in a crappy conference. That’s my whole point.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
of course there is some relativity but i am attempting to look at how he would compare to the best(10/10) offensive player at his position imaginable... attempting to make a rating as objective as possible...
he is great at finishing and hitting mid rangers and plays within himself offensively…
either way the point i’m looking to make is he is really good offensively and poor defensively
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
So why make a rating system subjective?
Thats where statistics get skewed in the first place. Why not rate a player based on a peer group so if you give him an 8.5/10 you can tell me why he got that score based on the sample group.
Well, objective statistics show that we're a worse defensive team with Amare on the court than with Nash on the court
But you seem to reject that notion
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
thats because you stupid...
i didn’t give a percentile… i gave an absolute rating
by Superelkman on Feb 18, 2010 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
-1: Amare is playing as well if not better than Dirk and Gasol
Amare is shooting 57.1% from the field which ranks 10th among all NBA power forwards but is by far the best percentage of any player that averages over 30 minutes per game. No offense to Trey Gilder, but I don’t think his 100% shooting percentage is relevant here.
The second most efficient (relevant) scorer is Kevin Garnet at 54.7%, then comes Carlos Boozer at 53.6%, and Chris Bosh at 51.7%. That translates to an extra 1.7 points per game if Bosh shot as well as Amare.
Amare benefits from getting to the rim more than Bosh and shooting almost as good as the great Dirk Nowitzki from outside.
Checking in with 82games.com we learn that both Amare and Bosh average 49% of their points as “Inside” but there’s a big difference when it come to “Dunks” (Amare, 17% / Bosh, 9%) that accounts for their overall efficiency gap. Amare’s athleticism advantage over Bosh translates to the numbers.
So there you have it, Amare is the most athletic power forward in the game that is playing starters’ minutes (and will remain so until/if Blake Griffin begins his NBA career).
As for the outside shots, Amare is shooting 46.9% compared to 48% for Dirk (who only scores 18% of his points inside the paint and as a result only has an overall FG% of .477). That’s a gap of only 1.1% between Dirk and Amare when it comes to Dirk’s single most important weapon. Put that in your bratwurst and eat it with some sauerkraut.
Just for fun, consider that Amare is also a better outside shooter than LeBron James (44.5%), LaMarcus Aldridge (42%) and far better than Pau Gasol (26.7%).
Amare’s biggest weakness on the offensive end are low post moves and decision-making.
Rebounding:
Amare takes a lot of flack for his rebounding but consider that his 10.2 rebounds per game in December puts him behind only Camby, Boozer, Zach Randolph and Bosh and he’s within 1.2 rpg of all of those guys.
After a slow start to the season where his timing and athleticism were still recovering, Amare is now putting up big rebounding numbers on a consistent basis. He had 21 boards against the Spurs and had a five game stretch last month where he averaged 13 per game.
Most importantly, he’s bringing the effort on the glass almost every night. You’d be hard pressed to find 3 games this season where Amare’s effort hasn’t been 100%.
It isn’t comparable to look at a specialist like Lou Amundson who in limited minutes puts up gaudy rebounds on a per 40 minute basis. Lou has a great nose for the ball and puts in a ton of effort but I seriously doubt that if he were playing 35+ minutes per game every night that he would be able to sustain it. And let’s not even talk about free throw shooting.
While I won’t go as far to say that Amare is an elite rebounder he clearly ranks at the top of the class when it comes to power forwards that play big minutes and are also counted on to score the ball. His reputation here is far worse than his reality.
Defense:
Defense has always been a struggle for Amare but he has benefited this season from a much simplified defensive game plan that has him showing hard on each and every screen. He’s done a good job using his quicks to disrupt the ball handler and then recovery rapidly to his man.
His post defense is decent and like many of the league’s players in that he struggles with guys that have great back-to-the-basket footwork (Al Jefferson, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph). He gets into trouble when he’s in help rotation especially against teams like Toronto and Orlando that run funky stuff like a 2/3 high pick and roll where his assignment changes to being a help defender instead of being involved directly in the play. He simply doesn’t have the instincts of the league’s top defensive players like KG and Duncan and doesn’t make good, timely decisions when teams force him to think fast.
Most importantly for the Suns, the days of teams abusing Amare in the pick and roll game are gone. Credit to him and the Suns coaching staff for cleaning up that glaring weakness in his game.
He does play decent defence, which has picked up this season
Leave your Amare hatred behind
Citations, please!
I know you included the link, but just in case you were too lazy to click on it, that’s all from an article Seth wrote at the beginning of January.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
That's what drove Marion nuts
Every year his name was put out there and after a few years it has to wear on you. Then as Nash and Amar’e have contract discussions,it’s natural for the business side of things to create some tension. Business is business, but I’ve always followed the mantra of being up front with people and trying to reach a common ground without playing games. Yeah, you have to keep some cards close to the vest. But Kerr and Sarver have been playing this game with Amar’e and US for 2 years.
That said, if it works out that Amar’e either ops in, or gets extended for a few years, then it’ll be good to see this team together for a couple more seasons. And maybe, just maybe, Kerr makes an off season tweak or two to actually strengthen the team for a run at a title.
Personally, I think there's a .5% chance Amare opts in.
This is his last chance to get a deal under the old CBA. If he waits until next summer, the CBA is expired, and he’ll have to get a new deal under the new terms, with shorter years and a lower ceiling on money.
There's a 100% chance Amare opts in
Because we will be tacking another 3 years on to his deal. A mediocre Suns team with an All Star starting PF and PG is better than a crap rebuilding team any day. The Suns fans aren’t lusting for a championship, because we’ve never had one.
The seats at US Airways Arena aren’t empty because we’ve never made it to the promise land, BUT they’d be empty if we were a sub .500 team and we’d be a sub .500 team if we did ANY of these trades proposed or let Amare walk for nothing.
So you see no possible scenario where Amar'e doesn't stay with the suns
i wish i had your optimism man, you think when d-wade and lebron are calling this summer theres absolutely no way he considers going to south beach/new york/new jersey? You think he’d hang straight up on them because he much prefers staying in phoenix? You think that even though Nex York/New Jersey are offering him the chance to be the man and be paid more than if he stayed in phoenix becuase the big three FA whiffed on them, he’s still going to prefer Phoenix?
There’s a hell of a lot less than 100% chance he stays in Phoenix, i’d say about 30% chance max.
It's not as high as 100% definitely...
I do think there is a chance of an extension getting done. His agent did say that they were not that far away. The price of not trading him might force Kerr/Sarver to give a little more than they originally planned for an extension… Overall, I would say 50/50 of an extension being worked out. Chance of Amare opting in of his own volition, very little…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
We don't have to wait until the offseason to resign him
We CAN resign him tomorrow, we don’t have to wait until this offseason. And my bet - once again you will disagree with me but everything I’ve said since the beginning has come true is that he will sign for an extension within 1 week after the trade deadline. And if Lebron or Wade really want him this Summer because their respective teams didn’t land anyone of substance they will have to give up real assets to land him. It is looking like Cleavland is out of the FA market this Summer, and if Miami doesn’t make a trade Wade WILL walk too. And really there is no way for a team to sign both Wade and Amare or any 2 of the big names in the market this Summer.
If we extend him, then sure.
I guess I should revise: if we let Amare get to the summer without a new deal, there’s a .5% Amare outs in to his deal.
No doubt
We’d be stupid to let him walk, we are in a better position if we extend him at 57 million than let him walk in the long run.
10 years is way overstating
Might be a couple years at best. They’d have huge cap room in 2011. It’s always much easier to rebuild when you’re not saddled with horrible contracts like the Knicks and Nets were.
I think 10 years may be understating it, look at some of the teams that are good now how long it took them to rebuild…. Chicago 10+ yrs, Cleavland 25+ years, Boston 15+ years, Orlando 10+ years, Denver 15+ years. Some of these might be slight exaggerations but rebuilding is not something that can be done in a season or two…
You're picking bad examples.
Yes, those teams were not in contention for a while. There are usually two things that keep a team from rebuilding quickly:
- They sign the wrong moves for the wrong players (e.g. Orlando with Grant Hill and his long expensive contract when he was injured the whole time, or Tracy McGrady with his long expensive contract when he was injured the whole time; Chicago with Eddy Curry and Ben Wallace; Cleveland with the Carlos Boozer fiasco; etc.)
- Or their owner is perfectly fine to just wallow in mediocrity and not lose money
Sarver wants to win and he’s spent. Now he does have a little tendency to spend unwisely. What we don’t want to happen here is that Amare being re-signed turns into one of those Grant Hill situations, where we have a lot of money tied into a player who spends most of the time injured and sitting behind the bench.
by jburning on Feb 18, 2010 11:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Please copy and paste this anytime someone calls Sarver "cheap"
Sarver wants to win and he’s spent. Now he does have a little tendency to spend unwisely.
That’s Sarver in a nutshell. He and D’Antoni handed out some bad contracts, not cheap ones.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Feb 18, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
Rebuilding can be done in two or three years if:
- Contracts are given out reasonably and there is sufficient talent scouting behind those contracts (e.g. NOT giving Amare the max)
- The team drafts well (e.g. Robin Lopez, Goran Dragic, etc.)
- The team has a really crappy season or two to get a high lottery pick that can really be a significant franchise cornerstone (which will happen next year most likely)
Nobody will sign a reasonable contract with a loosing team, usually players who sign contracts for less than they can get elsewhere do it with WINNING teams. We have a better chance at landing talent through FA with a good core of players already Stat and Nash provide that. But this team with ONLY Nash will have to give huge contracts to attract anyone to play for a loosing team.
The team has drafted well and is a team that breeds PG’s which is great for Dragics sake, but I’m not sure we have the talent in the training staff to breed a great pure center in Lopez, we would definitely need some personal coming in to help him develop.
Lastly a team has to tank for years / get really lucky to land in a great spot to draft a franchise altering rookie. There has really only been 2 of those guys in the draft since Lebron draft which are Rose and Durant.
So to respond to your statement
You CAN rebuild in 2-3 years but you better have a leprechaun caged in your basement.
How are my examples of the best teams in the NBA bad examples? Every singe team that has a shot of winning a championship this season except LA had rebuilding years of 10-25 years each.
So the better question is what teams HAVENT had to rebuild for 10+ years? San Antonio and LA and that might be it…?
All of the teams you listed
Made terrible contract decisions or had owners unwilling to spend to contend.
Say what you want but the point is there are 6 teams in contention this year and 5 of them had rebuilding years of 10+ years so that isn’t arguable.
I’m not so sure giving our large contracts to players who get injured is a bad decision, injury can happen to anyone its not like Grant Hill was wreak-less and raced motorcycles or something. It could have just as easily happened to Kobe and LA would be on that list too…
I know injuries are more bad luck
But I guess my point there is that you just have to really be careful who you give a huge deal to. I apologize, as I am being unfair to Orlando. Grant Hill was almost a superstar when Orlando signed him, and everyone thought McGrady was going to be awesome. But still, those two contracts are why Orlando wasn’t a contender for a decade. That, and letting O’Neal walk.
Totally true.
I just don’t think you can successfully add injures into your future forecast with your players. It is just really a game of chance, and you can’t prevent these situations where your star gets injured because you HAVE to lock these stud NBA players to long term deals.
The most you can do is take care of them exactly the way Phoenix does. You look at Wade and Lebron’s situations on their teams and you say well I know why Wade is constantly injured he plays 40+ min a night regardless if his team is up by 20 or not. And its really a Godsend for Cleavland for Lebron to not have been injured up until this point because of the way they work these players into the ground.
So from a franchises standpoint there are plenty of precautions they can take to ensure their players are healthy and Phoenix does that, but a lot of these teams really mistreat their guys.
Elton Brand signed with the Sixers for less than what the Warriors offered him and that was the year the Warriors were 14 games over 500 and set a team record for attendance.
Secondly, some of the teams you mentioned as having to take forever to rebuild…there is no evidence that the Cavs ever really tried to get competitive, same with the Nuggets. They both hit the jackpot with drafting Lebron and Melo and only then, did they get serious about trying to win.
The Bulls went 6 years in between winning the title and getting back to the playoffs, same with the Celtics. The Celtics won the division in 04, had two bad years and then turned over the whole team minus Pierce and won a title.
Rebuilding takes 2-3 years max if you have people in the front office who are capable and an owner willing to take a risk every once in a while.
There is not a single GM who is not committed to winning, winning = money. Teams won’t just sit around and watch attendance drop because they are just being lazy and don’t want to try to win.
This is a basketball thread
Why would I waste my time with following the NL East or the Pirates for that matter?
Pirates are in the NL Central number one. And number two, you said there is not a GM who is not committed to winning, you did not specify a GM of a basketball team exclusively. Secondly, your examples were completely bogus.
The Cavs taking 25 years to rebuild? Do you realize from 88 to 98, an 11 year span they made the playoffs 9 times? And then went 7 years without getting back to the playoffs?
A team that spends 25 years losing, which the Cavs did not even do, is not considering to be a rebuilding team, that is just an awful franchise. Until recently.
I know bro but I also said these numbers are exaggerations right after I listed those years. Please give me a reason why a GM wouldn’t commit to winning? What financial sense does that make whatsoever? Some teams may not be committed to winning like LA but give me a break man there are no teams in the NBA that have cashed in and said “I’m done working and done trying to do my job”
And furthermore, you can not possibly tell me that the Knicks have been trying to win the last couple of years. Because they haven’t. They have bankrolled everything into having a ton of cap space this coming summer so they can sign two max guys and surround them with garbage. Except it is all going to backfire in their face when Lebron stays in Cleveland, Amare stays here, Wade stays in Miami and Bosh join him. The Knicks will be crap for another 5 years.
I think the Knicks have tried to win, they’ve had the highest payroll despite their losses, any NY fan in ANY sport wouldn’t allow a team to sit around and accept it.
Plus it is horrible for the owners pocketbook
They have had the biggest payroll because Isiah Thomas was an idiot. Since he was fired or left, whichever it was they have tried to get out from under all of those contracts, but they were not trying to win, they were trying to shed money.
Both of those teams gave big contracts to some of their players, so how can you call that not trying to win??
They refuse to make right on their wrongs.
Part of being a good FO is to correct your mistakes. But those teams, especially GSW, wallow in them.
Ok I’ll agree GSW took the year off, they got screwed by Baron and gave too large of a deal to that center with the ugly free throw form.
But the point that EREX21 is trying to make is that there are teams in the NBA that couldn’t care less whether they win or loose, that is the most false statement I have ever heard. If that were the case Stern would be in there in 2 seconds kicking those owners butts out the door, he wouldn’t stand for that for a minute.
Not quite true
Donald Sterling, owner of the Clippers, has long been committed to not winning. Despite losing, the Clips have been a very profitable team under his ownership. It’s long been noted that he runs that team for money, not basketball glory.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Feb 18, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
right.
and on the flip side, there’s a reason no team spends $200 million a year to create a super team. it isn’t profitable. the main goal of a franchise is to make money. it may be willing to take a loss every once in while, but the end game is money.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 18, 2010 7:54 PM MST up reply actions
Can you say:
LA Clippers??? You can have all the picks and all the cash you want. You still have to know what to do with them, and the players still have to pan out. And if you don’t do it right, then 10yrs is understated!
by FunInTheSun on Feb 18, 2010 11:52 AM MST up reply actions
Wow
Knicks make out like bandits. They unload Jeffries contract, keep Jordan Hill, get TMac’s huge expiring, get Sergio Rodridguez to replace Chris Duhon. They did have to give up their 2012 first rounder, though.
Walsh, for the most part, has really saved the Knicks
Drafting Hill ahead of Jennings will forever haunt him, though.
espn says that hill's involved
ouch
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I really think they should've tried to keep Hill
If they strike out on the max FAs this summer they’re screwed
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Houston is going to make some noise this year
Sucks that they lost Landry, but Jeffries, Hill, Kevin Martin…that’s a good haul. AND they get 2012 NYK first.
Holy Morey.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
They get the right to swap 2011 picks with NY too
But 2011 NY pick is top 5 protected. 2012 pick is top 1 protected.
Better for Houston than NYK methinks
If they can’t land LeBron, Wade or Bosh(and the goal is TWO of those three?!), then they’re going to be the laughingstock of the league.
Morey is a fantastic GM. Lottery pick in Hill(who I believe will pan out, I really do), young scorer in Martin, defensive guy in Jeffries, AND the picks. Dayum.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I love the trade deadline(when it's not regarding PHX)
Friend of mine just described it as “Christmas for NBA Junkies”…so true.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
But really...what do we do now?
We’re not making any more moves. This team isn’t going anywhere as presently constructed. Amare might walk and leave us with nothing, OR we’ll extend him and keep this mediocre team together. Seems like we’re just kind of screwed for the next two seasons at least.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Don't we just cross our fingers
that Earl Clark turns into something? And hope that Dragic and Lopez continue to develop?
What's wrong with:
PG – Nash; backed up by Dragic
SG – JRich; backed by LB
SF – Hill; backed up by Dudley (who will ultimately start)
PF – Amar’e; backed up by Amundson and Clark
C – Lopez; backed by Frye
Other than maybe another big body for Lopez, I like this team for the next couple years to make a run. Longer term, we need a PG to back up Dragic after Nash retires, and a SF to back up Dudley after Hill retires. Can get that in the draft or free agency. Point is that for the next couple years we’re set for a run, and with a few new pieces, are set for longer than that.
by FunInTheSun on Feb 18, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Because that team has played sub .500 basketball for two months
Can’t really see them “making a run”. JMHO
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
What's the run going to be towards? Not a title.
I believe as presently constructed, we can beat anyone in a 7 games series. I also believe we won’t get out the second round.
I don't know if scary is accurate
because Amare is most likely leaving, and our owner is a loud mouth blowhard who sucks at poker. But we might win a few games, yeah.
FYI. Assuming a cap of 55M next year...
If Frye and Hill opt out we would have about 15M to spend.
I don't think Frye opts out
he just bought a house in Phoenix this season and it’s the best situation in the league for him. Hill maybe, if he wants to chase a title. But he won’t get more playing time anywhere else.
The only thing I want to happen now...
…is for this to be over. One way or the other, I want it to end.
Cant' have it both ways
Suns fans, yesterday: “If Kerr trades Amare, he won’t get anything in return and we’ll be screwed.”
Suns fans, now: “Amare won’t be traded, but when he walks this summer we’ll be screwed.”
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:08 PM MST reply actions
Sure you can
We’re screwed both ways. That’s a fact.
One way just screws us slightly less than the other.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
We’re screwed both ways. That’s a fact.
Will Suns Nation acknowledge they may have painted Kerr into a corner?
I can’t recall how many times I read notes from “fans” stating any moves to create cap space would be regarded as more of Sarver’s penny pinching, and they’d cancel their season tickets blah blah blah.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
Well the fans will vilify the FO one way or the other
But we aren’t the ones making the decisions. FO didn’t make up their mind methinks. They tried to trade him last deadline, then pulled out. Then he got injured so they held off on the extension. Then they tried to trade him during summer, they pulled out. They tried to extend him, it failed. They tried to trade him, they pulled out. And now they face the possibility of him walking for nothing.
I don’t see how WE painted the FO in that corner. Yeah, we’re not helping things, but in the end, responsibility’s on the FO.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
They tried to trade him last deadline, then pulled out.
Because the decision came down to keep Amare or Terry Porter. I’d have to think there is consensus the FO made the right call.
Then he got injured so they held off on the extension.
Well, of course.
Then they tried to trade him during summer, they pulled out.
Or, the Warriors backed out of a deal after drafting Curry.
But really, it comes down to this blast of honesty:
Well the fans will vilify the FO one way or the otherGood to know where you stand.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Don't get me wrong man
I’m not saying that the FO made the wrong decisions. I’m just saying that things worked out the way they did and now we’re stuck in between a rock and a hard place.
“Good to know where you stand”….I wasn’t referring to myself chief.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
The vilifying the FO part
I’m just saying it’s a lose lose situation for Kerr no matter what he does in terms of how the fanbase will view it.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
But I do agree about the fans
Arizona sports fans are very fickle and demand a winning team. Most are way too short-sighted to see what traded Amare away for a pick, a young player, and cap space would do for the team in a couple of years. They’d rather have five years of first round exists than two lottery years, a first round exist, a second round exit, and then possibly a championship.
And Beasley/Hickson>nothing
Which is what we face now
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Not enough to do anything good with
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I've already accepted the fact that a lot of fans just don't get it.
It’s ironic, because fans that TRULY wanted the team to win a championship, would see why the Suns don’t want to keep Amare.
We're offering what I think is reasonable
14-15 a year.
19? Eech…
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
No contract is better than a bad contract
i’d rather let amar’e walk than pay him anything over $15mil a year,
Lets just consider a hypothetical a moment
If STAT said to the front-office that he would walk unless they gave him $60million over 3 years and definitely wouldn’t come back, would you give him that contract?
He never said that
So there’s no point in arguing it. He wants something around what Pau got if he wanted MORE than what Pau got he wouldn’t have used Pau as a benchmark
57 million isn't much different from 60 million
It’s a difference of 1 million a year. But you think he’s worth 19 per, correct?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
IF that were the strategy
Then signing Amare to 19 a year while he is the beast that he is isn’t that unreasonable. Defensive big men are cheap and we can surround him with a couple cheapos.
Well be fore the negotiations started a couple weeks ago
it was reported that amar’e was seeking 20million a year
I dont care what was reported by some random journalist
If amare said something around Pau then I gotta go with 18-19 over 3 years, 3 years is not that unreasonable.
For the Lakers...yes
Subs don’t have the revenue and the ability to have that kind of salary sucked up in one player (Unless it’s Bron…)
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
yes they do
Jrich can be traded this summer which wouldn’t hurt the team much and we’d be under the cap that way.
They would not give a max deal to him
Just won’t happen…4 years 67 milllion sure…just not a max deal…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I never said max
but 75 or whatever for 4 more years isn’t unreasonable, considering they can shed salary.
They are getting Grant Hill for dirt cheap, to offset a lot of the increased Amare Salry
75 would be pushing it...
67 maybe 68 milllion tops…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
No...NO...No...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Unless signing him to a bad contract(19M) ensures that we get some value for him
Which is the big question now. If we sign him to an extension(and it’ll have to be closer to his price/years than ours), can we then move him for quality pieces? Or are we stuck with an overpaid Amare on a mediocre team?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I don't think it will take 19 million per
4 years in the range of 65-67 million should get it done
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
It should, but I understand why the FO isn't offering 4 years
Dude’s knee isn’t insured and when he had his MF, doctors said he may need it again.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
There are a lot of injured stars getting big money
As much time that Wade spends on the shelf, yet he still will command big money…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Amare is not on Wade's tier though
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
And Wade hasn't had two season ending injuries
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Games missed is games missed
I’d like to find out how many Wade has missed over his career which is about as long as STATS..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
He's always banged up
I own him for fantasy ball and EVERY SINGLE game it reads Wade DTD- day to day.
Exactly...Wade has missed a ton of games
Yet he still is expected to cammand a max deal..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Finals MVP on your resume will do that haha
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
It's true
I’m just saying Wade is held in much higher regard than Amare around the league.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
That's because Wade has wom a championship
With SHaq’s help…If Amare had won one, it woulb be the same kind of talk…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
IF amare was required to carry a pitiful team like Wade has, AMARE would have blossomed into taht type of player.
BUt the truth is still there Wade shoots 42% for the year or worse, he is just jacking up a ton of shots to get his 28 per game.
Thats because there is literally no other player on his team worth noting
If you’re trying to even put amar’e in the same stratosphere as wade then you’re crazy
LOL again I didn't
You guys love to put words into my mouth!! I’m just saying for Amare to lead a Miami team to a sub .500 record in a horrible east wouldnt be that hard. It is in the realm of possibilities. I think they are 5 games below .500
Wade is better...no doubt
But the difference isn’t as great as everyone makes it to be…Wade does take a ton of shots…I actually feel Amare could lead the league in scoring, easily, just too many other scorers around him…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
You guys act like Kerr is an idiot
who has zero baskeball knowledge…. what do you think you are more qualified for his position?
Come on man
That’s what fanhood’s about. Everyone thinks they know what the team should be doing.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I do, too
Last year’s draft of RoLo and Dragic turned out pretty well, for one.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
If the trade was better
With NJ then ofcourse it would probably mean championship, but Miami and Cleveland trades wouldn’t do it.
But that comparison is incomplete
Does Amare > Beasley/Hickson AND, say, Bosh?
One of the more intriguing proposals I saw was Amare + J-Rich for Jermaine O’Neal’s Massive Expiring Contract and a pick (or picks). That would’ve given the Suns a silly amount of cap space to play with this summer.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
That would have been fantastic
But I don’t think Miami would ever jeopardize it’s 2010 plan by taking on Richardson
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
exactly
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
This just sucks. You know these are Nash’s last few years, Shouldn’t we be trading to get better and trying to win now like Cuban is doing with Dirk Nowitzki. Sarver just needs to sell the team.
The Mavs are very similar to what the Suns could be doing
The Mavs keep adding to their payroll. But is it still enough to get them a championship? I don’t think so. Piecemealing your team through free agency and desperate trade-deadline moves generally doesn’t pan out.
At least they give themselves a chance.
Man, I want Steve Nash to demand a trade if Sarver won’t spend the money.
(sigh)
Beavis, can you tell us where the Suns rank in salary this season? And where they have ranked in the previous few seasons?
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Through, among other moves, cutting payroll?
Or would you consider Saver cheap for doing so?
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
I know he’s spent the money in the past(sometimes, but on the wrong players), but right now he isn’t which is just why we should rebuild. No reason to keep Nash around in his last years.
It would only be on Nash's request
More likely he retires here and becomes part of the organization management…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Right now NOBODY is willing to spend, its the economy its not because sarver feels like being cheap.
Speaking of the terrible local economy...
Over/under of the percentage of signs, at Chase Field this coming season, that are plugging casinos? I swear it was half last year.
Ira Fulton, our city turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo woo woo…
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
And it's not that Sarver doesn't want to spend
It’s that he doesn’t want to pay the luxury tax for a mediocre team.
Let's all face it...
….we’re frustrated at the whole situation. Nothing great is going to come out of it.
We want Amar’e to stay, to play at the same level he’s played at the last 4-5 games and to accept the offer put to him.
Sadly, that’s not gonna happen. Amar’e is frustrating as a player. A bit like Vince Carter – could be so much but chooses not to be 9for whatever reason).
And what makes it worse is that we see other teams making trades and now we want to be a part of it…we’re getting irritated that the front office hasn’t pulled the trigger on anything.
Thank God there is less than an hour to go!
Dosen't
matter. Kerr is screwed no matter what he does here. The majority of Sun fans can’t stand his ass. If Amare walks, he better move out of Phoenix.
We have two years of being a 7/8 seed.
After reading most of these comments I’m going to give my own insight.
I think they extend Amare in less a last minute deal happens.
If we do that the only chance we have of getting better is if Dragic continues to improve and if Lopez develops into a solid rebounder like Camby.
With Sarver and Kerr running things I can imagine a Rebuilding process taking 10 years. (Its not easy to find a player you can rebuild around). The Bulls finally got that player in Rose after 12 years.
Nash could win a Championship if they got a great team around him( they got good all-stars around him, but never enough role players). Other than that he couldn’t win because of Tim Duncan just like Barkley couldn’t win because of Hakeem.
Is there a consensus...
…a team has to suck for it to rebuild into a title contender?
I’d say yes. I lived in Orlando during the Magic’s 62-loss disaster in 2003-04 – but out of that season they got Superman (screw you, Shaq!).
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:38 PM MST reply actions
in general yes.
championships are won by the elite players, and usually the only way you can get those players is to suck for a few years and then draft one. there are a few exceptions. the pistons have been pretty successful over the past 20-25 years, and i dont think they’ve had 3 bad seasons in a row. i dont think they’ve had any high draft picks that helped them win a championship either. unless you want to count darko…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 18, 2010 8:03 PM MST up reply actions
4 years at $74 million?
I know I’m in the minority here, but is that really that bad for an offensive monster in his prime? He’ll be 31 at the end of that contract. I don’t see why a Pau deal is out of the question. And that’s 2 more years of Nash-Stoudemire, barring injury. I don’t think this is such a bad idea.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
4 years 74 nillion would probably be too much...
How about 4 years at 67 million and call it a day..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
To clarify...
That includes next year’s player option of $17M, plus a Pau-sized 3 year extension at 3 years for $57M. The Suns could offer up to a 4-year extension (but not longer under the current CBA), but in that case, I’d like to see the number come down.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Feb 18, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Too much
I was factoring the 17 million option plus giving him 3 add years at 16.5 milllion
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
He hasn't lost any explosion to this point
No doubt by the time he is 30 we will see a drastic decline but that will be at the end of his contract.
I really don't think it's the money
It’s the years. FO is concerned about that MF knee.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I’ve always believed teams don’t get killed by the money on bad deals, but the years.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
At this stage, with the way Amar'e will no doubt feel he's been treated (his agent will probably tell him he should feel likle he's being slighted)...
….I want us to trade Amar’e.
OK, then
Trade him where? And for what?
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Well we can want in one hand and crap in the other...
And see which one fills up first…I don’t think it happens till the off-season
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
We can't trade amar'e in the offseason
unless we sign him, if we’re committing to sign him then why would we trade him?
There may be a team that wants him long term...
Amare waffling on opting in or out kinda scared some prospective trading partners away…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
True, amar'e got it just the way he wanted
no trade mid-season but he can still choose where he wants to go this summer.
Maybe NBATV has it on the bottom scrolling ticker haha, who knows
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
TNT is having a special, I think
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
Nauseating , actually
I really wouldn’t get any work done, and I’m sure my wife would make good on her threats to leave…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
FROM CHAD FORD
Latest: Hearing one team is making a last minute push for Amare. Suns source says a deal “may” happen. Link coming.
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:56 PM MST reply actions
just watch
it will be to the Spurs for Ginobili expiring and McDyess.
And then we’ll all have to go and kill ourselves
Attention Grabber
This reeks of Ford tweaking the Suns and looking for attention. After his inaccurate report of "locker room tension" that were vehemently refuted by everyone in the Suns organization, I take his reportage with a grain of salt these days.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Noted, Mr. Gambodoro
It’s official — the Phoenix Suns did not make any trades by the NBA trade deadline. Get the latest on Gambo and Ash at 1pm sports 620 ktar
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 12:58 PM MST reply actions
really a max? a max extension or the 6 year max?
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Feb 18, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Can't extend for 6 years.
The only way Amare gets a 6 year deal is to opt out and re-sign. The most the Suns could offer would be a 4 year extension at something like $19M a year unless he opts out.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
"Damage"
As for alleged “damage” to the Amare-Suns relationship, I don’t think there’s much there to repair. It seems like everyone was on the same page throughout the process. It wasn’t an ugly public “ship him out” conversation like the Jazz went through with Carlos Boozer before he opted in. Seems like everything has been professional and above board.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
I totally agree
It was actually kinda weird, almost like the whole thing was scripted…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Chad ford on twitter
chadfordinsider
Latest: Hearing one team is making a last minute push for Amare. Suns source says a deal “may” happen. Link coming.
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Feb 18, 2010 12:59 PM MST reply actions
It might be too little too late...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Not necessarily
stuff can still be announced after
Just give me bruce bowen and Mcdyess
And I’m happy we get to ship out Amare for a defensive stopper in the paint and on the perimeter.
WTF?!? You must be joking
Bowen has retired and McDyess just has realized he already has..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
we need those pieces in addition to amare to mask his weaknesses...
and guys that can actually still fill those roles
The last hour spent infront of my laptop waiting to see what will happen and what will unravel from this has been like watching Lost.
My mind has exploded throughout the process and I don’t know whether what I have just witnessed is what I think it is.
my guestimate is
some creature bought to the island via the black rock to be imprisoned on the island is the best guess i have
I was thinking along the lines of the black smoke is “God” and the island is “Heaven” or something like that, and the black smoke had to kill Jacob who is “Jesus” to save the island or something…
Jared Dudley, in the dark...
Is there any last minute trades goin on? All the trades the knicks have been doin they better get a big time free agent this summer..
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 1:04 PM MST reply actions
I am glad all of this is now over...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Used up all my blood pressure pills in a week
Won’t be able to eat no bacon till the 31st…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Is the trade deadline really over? There are no updates on ESPN or NBA to indicate that deals are still in progress or that it's over...
….I know the time has passed but….can someone please just give me closure?!!?
Is Redd an expiring contract???
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
When the deadline comes...
Does every GM’s phone light up red, like the backboard when the shot clock expires?
by Gold Star for Robot Boy on Feb 18, 2010 1:08 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
and the buzzer sounds
There’s also a shot clock counting down and audio from a recorded crowd going “3…2…1… eeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh”
haha
sarver, kerr, amare and agent to meet for dinner tonight.
try to douse those bridges!!!
http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider
Those bridges will be mended easily
When we offer Amare a 57M extension over a bottle of wine tonight.
I won't bet against you on that
But i will award you your interwebz points for Amare staying with the Suns past the deadline.
haha
get em drunk, sign the paper, and then to the strip club to right the ship.
thatababy kerr and sarver!
They are cousins
We’ve come to the conclusion they are cousins with different mamas same daddies, read below:
I am going to stopy replying to your posts
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
You are just writing silly stuff
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Central Michigan
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Go Chippewas!!!!
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Nice I'm getting my MS Finance right now
I went to Michigan for 1 class then got a scholarship elsewhere so bounced outta Michigan!!
University of Michigan???
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Well good ahead and finish it up...
Once you stop, it’s hard to get started again…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Very true I took 1 year off between my undergrad at Iowa State at my Masters, its real hard to get back into school mode.
I teach statistics to the executive MBA students and I’m telling you these 40-50 people are 10x worse than freshmen they just act like whiny little kids.
That's because most already have jobs and careers
A lot of them just think they have already arrive…I had some guys in my classes already making triple figures and the Professors could haldy tell them anything..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I hear you man
It just reflects so negatively on the school though to push these people through who have no desire to learn the material whatsoever. There was a guy who I thought was going to stand up and start swinging he was so upset he had to learn “the normal distribution”.
Most of them are really great though and they understand I’m just a kid trying to help them out.
Uhhh...That makes them step brothers...
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I mean half-brothers
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
From @PhoenixSuns Twitter
The NBA Trade Deadline came and went, and Amare Stoudemire will remain a Sun this season
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