Suns Stand Pat At The Trade Deadline: Sarver Chooses Winning Over Saving
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 3:46 PM MST
in Commentary
178 comments
At the end of the day, it came down to the last thing Steve Kerr said in his 15-minute post-trade deadline press conference, "I wasn't willing to sacrifice this season for something that would help us in the future. That didn't make sense."
The thinking by Suns management is to maintain an entertaining product built around Steve Nash and try to remain competitive while developing young players for the future.
It's an admirable goal, but one that ignores the obvious - the Suns are no closer to a championship today than they were at the beginning of the season. In fact, by not making a move at the deadline and getting something in return for Amare, they very well might have taken a big step back.
Nash is getting older, as is Hill, and their decline is not likely to be easily replaced by the improvement of Dragic, Lopez, Dudley and, hopefully at some point, Earl Clark. Solid young players, but that group without a star isn't ever going to be good enough to compete in the NBA.
The Suns are now left with the pickle that is Amare's contract and will stand pat for the rest of the season and hope for the best. The team on the court has shown flashes of brilliance and extended periods of complete mediocrity and will now have the chance to finish what they started.
I sincerely hope that the players (and fans) appreciate that their owner didn't take a deal that would have made the team worse this year and saved perhaps $10 million in real money. The rumored swap with Cleveland for Hickson and Ilgauskas' expiring contract was never as close as reported according to Kerr, at least - not without a way to flip Z's contract for more usable (but costly) parts.
Who's cheap now?
The lack of focus and mental toughness (Nash's words) through large parts of the season probably didn't warrant that kind of trust. The hard business decision would have been to pull the plug, save the money and move on with the process of rebuilding. But Robert Sarver put his foam finger in front of his accountant's thumb and once again was seduced by the thrill of victory and went "all in".
It may not prove to be a smart move, but it is a gutsy one that runs counter to his own financial self interest.
Once this run is over though, it will be time to pay the piper. While the Suns were staying firm with their mix of young role players, an aging MVP and an all-star enigma, the rest of the West is positioning itself to get better.
The Thunder and Blazers will only improve their loaded young teams. The Mavs, Nuggets and Jazz should maintain their place and the Lakers aren't going anywhere. Now add to that a Rockets team that made some interesting moves and the Kings and Clippers who have everything in place to take huge leaps forward.
Where will that leave the Suns in 2011?
Only by waiting to see what the rosters look like in October will we know if by treading water the Suns are actually drowning.
Next Up
One thing the Suns haven't been willing to do, and I heartily applaud them for this, is make the mistake of committing too much for too long to Amare Stoudemire.
Between the new CBA which will radical reshape how NBA business is conducted and the man's micro-fractured knee, it would be a potential disaster to sign him to a deal beyond three or, at most, four years. To guarantee Amare, an amazingly dynamic and but ultimately incomplete player, more than $45 or $50 million dollars is setting yourself up for failure. Plenty of GMs have fallen into this trap and have saddled their replacements with immense burdens.
Bravo to Kerr for not mortgaging the team's future by taking the easy way out. I am sure Mark Jackson and Jon Barry would be thrilled to see Amare get a huge long-term contract right now, but they don't have to live with the consequences in three or five years.
With this outcome the Suns can now go back to the table with Amare and see if they can't talk him into a more reasonable deal. Hopefully, he and his agent saw what happened and how little teams were willing to offer for him and they take that lesson to heart. Doubt it, but you never know.
Barring that, as I argued, the best outcome now is for Amare to stay for his final year, which allows the Suns to tread their way through next season and be well positioned for the post-new CBA world of the 2011/12 season.
Making a Splash This Summer
It is early yet, but there are a few things that could happen this summer that would quickly turn things around for the Suns assuming Amare does opt out and leave the Suns with nothing in return.
The most important move the team could make would be to trade Jason Richardson's expiring $14m contract to one of these teams that's under the cap and is young and needs a wing scorer. That would leave the Suns with plenty of room to maneuver.
I don't think that's likely though, which means the second option is going to be buying a draft pick using the ~$7m in cap space created when Amare walks (I still think he will).
We will surely be talking more about that and other options as the season winds down. In the meantime, how about that Nash to Robin Lopez lob play? That's looking great!
2 recs |
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I think the Suns will look at trading JRich (but more likely LB) leading up to draft day, so they can secure some kind of first rounder.
i would rather keep lb and give up j rich maybe a first round pick or a sign and trade where we get a large trade exception
I just figure LB is more likely because of his contract
JRich’s expiring contract won’t reach its full value until next year’s trade deadline, when most of his last year will have already been paid for by the Suns.
extension or walk?
i still think its 50/50 and im still 50/50 i dont care if he goes or stays but we need draft some defensive and athletic defenders with our second round picks not keep them in europe and if he does walk and we have to use the $7m on defensive players as well our offensive will always click if nash is at the controls we just need to get some defensive players in free agency
If Frye leaves...
We’ll have closer to $10 milion. A two year deal for Camby @ ~10 mil would be nice…
Camby at his age
won’t get near that much….he will maybe get like a $3m 1 or 2 yr deal
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
Even better!
Lets give him $6 mil.
If you look at Wages Of Win, Camby is a supestar: he is in the top few players:
And almost certainly not from us
there will be a lot of contenders bidding for Camby this summer methinks!
We can offer him more than just about anyone...
If Amar’e leaves.
He would be ideal as a Sun next to Fropez, or even Amar’e. A passing, athletic 4/5 who can rebound. Been forever since we’ve had one of those! If Camby gets ~$6 million, LB in a sign and trade.
I love Camby, and reckon he’d be a great Sun, and put the Suns in contention almost immediately.
ya
Camby at 6 million a year for one or two years would be a STEAL for us!
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Feb 18, 2010 8:36 PM MST up reply actions
Camby puts the Suns in contention if the Suns have to loose Amare to get him?? You are joking right?
Camby would be the perfect match for Amare though…He would help with his lack of defense/rebounding. Although…Camby has been playing for like 13 years now..he can’t have more than a year or two in him…his offensive game as declined drastically.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
+10 interwebz pride points
First time ive ever agreed with SSOHOWARD but Camby is a solid piece but not the answer
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
not really...
there are a ton of teams with cap room this offseason… the bulls and clippers both positioned themselves better financially yesterday
This is the sort of decision that is typical of Sarver.
He’s frugal when he shouldn’t be (i.e. selling picks) and extravagant when he shouldn’t be (keeping Amare, paying Marcus Banks big bucks, etc).
If the Suns miss the playoffs, this decision will be a heavy albatross.
“Way I remember it, albatross was a ship’s good luck, ’til some idiot killed it” -Capt. Malcolm Reynolds
I love your source
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
There’s almost no situation in the world that can’t be covered by a quote from Joss Whedon or Aaron Sorkin
Pain is scary is always a good one
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
I still think Sarver gets a bad rap
for selling those picks….he was a new owner and listening to his b-ball people (D’Antoni) who didn’t want any part of having to deal with rookies while he was in the middle of a championship hunt.
Stupid mistake but not “cheap”
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 5:12 PM MST up reply actions
He's not cheap...
Because we’ve been I the Luxury plenty of times, and in the top half of spending almost every year.
He is, however, fiscally responsible, which can look like the same thing, especially when you are forced to trade two first rounders to ditch an $8 mill contract.
The KT thing was tough
but they basically sold those two 1st round picks for $16m
When the Suns picked up KT it was to make a run. Didn’t work out and btw Mike D was only playing the guy 20 mpg in 07 which was a career low for crazy eyes. He was too slow for the system.
Why would any owner want to spend $16m on a guy that didn’t contribute that much. The 2 picks hurt but it was the pricing of signing him in the first place.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
He was too slow for the system.
Which raises a question – did the GM consult with the coach before making the deal?
If not – that’s a flaw in the suns organization that needs to be corrected
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:46 PM MST up reply actions
The GM was the coach at that time
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
Mike D
made quite a mess of things and then bailed at the right time
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions
That sounds a lot like Larry Brown circa 2002 in Philadelphia – he may not have had the title ‘GM’ but Billy King was just his puppet.
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:24 PM MST up reply actions
Larry Brown is still doing that
He insisted the Bobcats take DJ Augustine instead of Brook Lopez and now he hates DJ and wanted to dump him for a big man….
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
Larry Brown won one title with a pre built team
and a GM who told him to shut up and do his job.
I usually don’t use his name – I just call him the rat
To be specific – he wanted the bobcats to dump augustine FOR lopez :)
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:27 PM MST up reply actions
good point
D’Antoni and Walsh just gave up another pick today
Hopefully
The Suns and Amare can work out an extension. This at least secures his future, so teams will be less wary of trading for him.
Even then ...
You start to ask … well, what if we get stuck with him? Is it better to just wash your hands of the whole ordeal, even if you lose $10m or so in the process?
I wish there was some way we could have got Ronnie Brewer
he went to the Griz for a conditional 2011 pick.
As for our own team we need to sign amar’e to a contract which is fair but attractive to potential trade partners. I say this not because i am demanding an amar’e trade but because at some point we have to face up to the fact that we’ll have to rebuild and amar’e trade talks will start (again). We need to sign him to an extension though because losing him for nothing this summer (unless Earl Clark suddenly becomes the next iteration of Karl Malone) will seriously put us back. Oh well, its all about the PLAYOFFS now baby!
by DaveJD on Feb 18, 2010 4:00 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Recc'd
I sincerely hope that the players (and fans) appreciate that their owner didn’t take a deal that would have made the team worse this year and saved perhaps $10 million in real money…
YES
Bottom line is Kerr was willing to roll the dice on one variable as opposed to multiple variables that probably weren’t as good as rumored. I respect that non-decision.
Let’s also bullet point the word RUMOR. We do not really know what was on the table and what wasn’t.
Now I would like to resume this bipolar season and concern myself with reality-watching this team battle for a playoff spot.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 18, 2010 4:04 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
This
Also emphasis on the battle. I hope the team can stay focused and not treat our playoff spot as a foregone conclusion.
by underxthebridge on Feb 18, 2010 4:20 PM MST up reply actions
This! lol where did THIS get started?
by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 18, 2010 4:29 PM MST up reply actions
I just personally say “this” a lot after quoting people when I post on other message boards. So it’s all out of habit I guess? Same reason people say +1 instead of just rec’ing posts :P
by underxthebridge on Feb 18, 2010 4:34 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm guessing they would have pulled the trigger on the Philly trade...
but Philly didn’t want to let Iggy go. I’m glad Amare is still a Sun and am holding out hope that something can change before summer. If the Suns play to their potential and have a good playoff run maybe that will change things. Maybe Sarver will decide to put more money on the table for Amare.
In the mean time, I like this roster. I wish we could have added and defensive stalwart/character guy like Battier or Camby, but oh well…
Hopefully that could be on the horizon for next season.
This is the best case scenario
We can relax for the rest of this year and watch this team gel. Hopefully a contract agreement is worked out to extend Amar’e and then, look at what missing piece we need to add to take this team to the next level. Again, it’s tweaks we need, not overhaul, and apparently Kerr and Sarver see the same thing. We have a good, entertaining team, that needs a little more time, and is maybe a player away from being really, really good next season. But hopefully we get a glimpse of that in the playoffs this season!
by FunInTheSun on Feb 18, 2010 4:09 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
as expected
He didn’t say too much. I don’t get the feel he’s too hot on going through with an extension, though.
Kenny Thomas
The Kings waived their forward Kenny Thomas. What if the Suns signed him?
this may not be horrible....
Kenny Thomas can rebound the ball and is physical… that said I don’t know if it really makes much impact though since he hasn’t played in a while….
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
He's be a really large cheerleader
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Feb 18, 2010 5:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
he wouldn't even be any good at that
he’s probably still too injured to wave the towel effectively.
by DaveJD on Feb 18, 2010 5:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He got 20 rebounds against us earlier this year
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 19, 2010 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
Sam Dalembert has had 20 rebounds against the suns a couple of times I believe.
Average players seem to get big rebounding numbers against the suns.
It’s probably Amares fault
by jemagee on Feb 19, 2010 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
McGrady would Look good as a Sun..
If the Knicks wave him. Could be this year’s Tim Thomas. He’d look great for a minimum contract, with the Suns staff working their medical magic, and playing Suns ball: hitting threes, passing, not rebound and playing no D :)
Knicks aren't waiving him
they are auditioning him to see if he can still play
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 5:09 PM MST up reply actions
They don't want him at all
They probably won’t waive him, but they certainly won’t be keeping him next year, unless he plays for the minimum. He has some value in a sign and trade, theoretical value, but McGrady may be happy with a buy out, and going to a playoff contender.
He’d be seriously good as a Sun – and he’d have lots of fun!
Well if they want two maxes they'd have to renounce his rights and David Lee's rights
So he’s not part of their future. I’m assuming they’re hoping that he can help them make a playoff push.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Nope, they will renounce McGrady for sure
And look to do a sign and trade for 2 max players, so they can use the MLE as well.
CBA states you can ONLY use the MLE if you use no salary cap space to sign a Free Agent. You can trade for as many as you like, you just can’t sign any directly. David Lee is likely going to be sent back for whatever star they sign.
in effect, the Knicks can trade for two stars, and then sign a full MLE player. That’d be the plan, in an ideal world, but one wonders if they’ll get anyone. The Nets, despite their season, probably have the better team to build around, as does Chicago and Miami. The Knicks are essentially selling NYC… and praying!
I consider the Knicks’ plan ridiculous. They plan to sign LeBron James…to an almost empty team where the only players still under contract are bad players and/or part of a recent losing culture. Why would LeBron James want that, if he cares about winning? I know he comes off as money-grubbing, but he would have to be not interested in winning at all. Maybe the Knicks think they will buy every good free agent to surround James with. It’s possible, but who knows if they will want to sign.
Yeah it's kind of headscratching
But NYK is offering him a blank slate. Dude gets to live in New York, become the hero of the “greatest city in the world”(BS IMO), and he gets to take Bosh or Wade with him. That’s kind of awesome even if the rest of the roster sucks. Besides, if they can lure two max FAs, I’m sure you’ll see a lot of players start signing there for discounted rates.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Players don’t sign for ‘discounted rates’ until the end of their careers are coming…guys like Malone chase a ring at the end (and fail) and Payton – but no free agent who can earn 10 mil per year is going to take less in their prime of their career.
People say stuff like this but 99.9% of the time – the largest offer wins – which is why lebron stays in cleveland and wade stays in miami and i think it’s only 50/50 bosh leaves toronto
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:37 PM MST up reply actions
I think the Knicks have a better chance to resign LeBron if Cleveland win the title this year
he can’t really abandon his hometown team if they losem but if they win and they break the “curse” of cleveland sports then he might be more incline to leave.
I don’t buy that logic either – i don’t think winning or losing the title this year affects Lebron one way or another, and it shouldn’t.
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
ouch
Not that I mind, but that makes James sound pretty bad. Perhaps you agree with me that he cares too much about money and fame?
No – I don’t agree with you
I just don’t think whether or not he wins a title this year in Cleveland will impact his decision to stay or leave in cleveland any more than I think being a yankee fan makes him more likely to go to New York
The media has to look for stupid reasons so they can write articles people will read.
Why do fans have to do it? It just lowers them to the level of a peter vescey or sam smith
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 9:08 PM MST up reply actions
As far as an extension is concerned
I feel there is very little chance Amare signs an extension. The Suns have been trickin him all over the NBA for years trying to trade him. Every February its the same thing. Who wants our All Star power forward? Someone… anyone??? Why would he want to resign with us for less years and/or money than he could get a number of other places? So he can continue to walk around with a for sale sign around his neck? You guys think Beasley is a head case, if Amare signs an extension with us the man needs therapy because he’s obviously a glutton for punishment.
yes
We’ve been shopping him, while at the same time he garnered a lot of criticism while it seemed to me that he was not getting enough positive feedback for the tons of good stuff he did on the court. the negatives have been hihglighted much more
Libertarianism is just Anarchy for rich people
Well, unlike alot of folks I see the Amare situation as a GOOD thing....
Because I want to WIN NOW and think this team is close.
I think going forward this season there needs to be a redication to the focus and intensity we showed early in November.
I also think alot of this comes down to Gentry. I see two or three main issues;
1) Gentry has to figure out how to maximize the performance of this group on a night to night basis. For those of you who say the coach is not responsible, or he doesn’t shoot and defend, I say baloney. It is his job to motivate his players. Thus far he has not done a good job at that. These guys don’t need to get motivated to face the Celtics, they need to be motivated for Charlotte or Oklahoma City, or Portland at home (without Roy). This is where Gentry has failed.
2) Related to #1. Bring defensive and rebounding effort to higher level. We have been killed by offensive rebounding by opponents and when we lose the defensive effort has been clearly lacking. These two issues need to be addressed and dealt with. RoLo has helped us on the boards but we need to get the whole team to buy in.
3) Managing the minutes of our starters to keep them fresh. Gentry hasn’t done a good job on this, and consequently the effort mentioned above is adveresely affected. We do have a good bench. Gentry needs to trust these guys with more minutes. In particular I would cut down on Hills minutes and also attempt to shave minutes here and there for Nash and JRich. It will really help them.
More than Dantoni may not be enough. I also think unless Rolo is in foul trouble he needs more minutes than Frye. Especially when deep frye is ice cold.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 19, 2010 8:58 AM MST up reply actions
Agree "Suns Fan"
I think moving RoLo into the starting lineup over Frye was a good move. Of course that was an obvious move and any halfway decent coach would have made that move. But I agree that Frye’s minutes should be lower. Frye has been hogging the ball when on the court and has been doing nothing but hucking up ill-advised threes and mostly missing them.
Most of all my comments about minutes was about the older guys, especially Hill. Lately Hill has been getting torched at the defensive end when going up against a halfway decent offensive player.
Frye is another asset we could have gotten something for at the deadline...
He is expiring and having a good enough year to be of interest to some team
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
Jack— I don’t know about you but I’ve liked some of the aggressiveness Frye has shown over the last month or so. He is streaking to the lane, not settling for the 3, taking his man off the dribble. I think we could really utalize that kid to more of his potential, but thus far we’ve ONLY used him to spread the floor which is really limiting of his assets IMO.
You can’t abuse Hill’s generosity in signing a small deal. The same goes for Barbs, we got him for pennies on the dollar of what he could get from other teams because he is loyal, we can’t just ship either one of them out like “old meat” because they did a service to Phx for signing small deals.
agreed on all points
and regarding hill’s defense lately( speaking to jack frost’s point)..didn’t he just lock down dirk and many other players on our 5 game tear? obviously b2b’s hurt him more than the younger players, but I would reccomend rewatching these past few games before passing that kind of judgement..
I believe in the end a deal on an extensions will be worked out for the Suns and Amare. He’s not going to get what he wants on the open market and if he does it’s not going to be from a team as good as the Suns are with Nash. I think they’ll compromise and he won’t even end up opting out.
And as for people who asked why I bother posting here when I’m a sixers fan – well you guys have hope – and if you want to read something really despressing you’ll see why the sixer fan might not have any hope (and really hasn’t since 2001-2002 but i didn’t cover that)
http://www.libertyballers.com/2010/2/18/1316849/post-trade-deadline-post-mortem
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:27 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I think so too. Perhaps the shock of not getting what he wants from any team will make him face the facts.
Well if they sign him now to an extension he’ll never know :)
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:38 PM MST up reply actions
oy vey...
after looking at that…feel free to hang out as long as you like…
puts the suns’ struggles into perspective, doesn’t it..
It took me like a half hour to write that (I don’t edit, i’m a free flow writer, if i ever start any of the blog ideas i have i need to work on that) – but afterwards – when i read it – it freaking depressed me – i knew that they had all thes issues (and like i said i skipped a few, for instance ownership and selling is more complicated than a normal sports team) but spelling them all out there – it lhonestly made me more depressed
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
FWIW
I had a really cool Farewell to Amare post written complete with a musical/photo tribute. Will just have to save it for this summer.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Did it involve the use of haiku?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
It did not
but there’s still time for improvements
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
Okay, new plan.
Somehow we trick Amare into opting in. Next summer, with him and J-Rich coming off the books, we go after Dirk. Maybe he’ll take a discount to get back with Nash (NOTE: A discount to, say, $18 million/per instead of the $22m he’s slotted to make next season). And there’s some extra left over for somebody else.
…all right, I’m reaching at this point.
What about sign and trades
where the trade partner for Amare helps the Suns sign another free agent? Hasn’t that happened in the past? i.e. if Suns want to give contract to David Lee but can’t make a big enough offer if Amare walks away, can’t Miami sign David Lee to the contract Suns and Lee have agreed upon and trade him to us for Amare?
Because
he rebounds, has good hands, can make a spot-up j from 18 feet out, and cost almost half as much as Amare
He’s over rated – he puts up huge numbers on a bad team
and he’ll get 10-12 million per year this off season
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
ok
Another player then. Rudy Gay. Tyrus Thomas. Whoever. I’m just curious if this is a possibility. Isn’t this something that happens in the offseason?
Possible but not likely
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
i dont know
how putting 20/10 up every night is over rated…Plus, he is doing the rebounding all on his own…no one is helping him.
His defensive deficiencies would also be masked by the fact we have Robin Lopez down in the post.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Ask Elton Brand and sixer fans how it’s ‘over rated’
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:28 PM MST up reply actions
Elton brand's
Problem is he can’t stay healthy and also because Eddie Jordan is Chris Wallace of coaches.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Whatever you say…someone is going to over pay David Lee – you should hope it’s not the Suns.
Amare is worth more than David lee
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:32 PM MST up reply actions
Of course
He is…but if he is going to want mega bucks It’d be more comfortable giving Lee a multi year deal with a yearly salary of 10-12 million. No one plays defense in the D’Antoni system and it would also be an easy transition since we played a modified version of the system and he has never had a major injury.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Who is Chris Wallace, and what does the analogy mean? The two Chris Wallaces I know of are the Memphis Grizzlies GM (I think), and a Fox News anchor.
Chris Wallace is the Worst GM Ever. Example: The Trade of Pau Gasol.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
yeah
for Marc Gasol and a bunch of money. Lil Gasol is turning out to be very good. he had very good draft picks with Gay and Mayo. Now he fucked up with Thabeet. He made a shrewd trade this summer for Randolph who is playing superbly. I understand he gave Gasol to the goddamn Fakers, but he has made many good moves. he is not nearly as bad as Dunleavy or a bunch of other guys
Libertarianism is just Anarchy for rich people
Pau Gasol trade actually looks like a decent deal now with the emergence of Marc
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
What is the max contract
Amare could get from a sign and trade and what the is the max if he were just an unrestricted free agent?
Everyone is saying if Amare opts in it would be a mad move on his part…How much is the salary cap going to be cut for NBA teams and how much would it effect Amare?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Sign And Trades allow:
A. A larger starting salary (I believe)
B. More Years (6 versus 5)
C. A larger percentage raise each year
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
It’s not over really – it’s on hold.
It’s not over until they sign an extension or he’s gone. For now it’s just on hold until the off season starts and he opts out.
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
And then we also get to have fun at next year's trade deadline
with Jason Richardson!! Yay!! Although that’ll be more fun than stressful.
All the trade talk is
he’s opting out and signing with somebody else
Steve Nash plays D!!
Twitter: @PhxSuns86
Nope – i’ve never bought that ‘2nd favorite team’ nonsense – if you’re a fan of a team you don’t have energy left to root for another team in the same sport.
I think I made it clear like 4 different ways already – why do you keep caring?
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 9:09 PM MST up reply actions
And I explained it already – so either read what I say and stop asking or just stop asking
by jemagee on Feb 19, 2010 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
Picture..
It looks like Sarver is holding a loaf of bread with a candle stuck in it in this picture.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Anyone else
Wish we made a trade offer for Tyrus Thomas? I would of liked his energy off the bench…the bulls traded him for Flip Murray and Acie Law…
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
We don't have the expiring contracts
to do it…plus they traded a pick. All for a 2 month rental?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 8:03 PM MST up reply actions
Thomas is a restricted free agent – if it works out they keep him – if the market is depressed for him he gets a weak offer and they keep him – or they work a sign and trade with his RFA rights.
All for Acie Law (who I can’t understand why he never worked out) Flip Freaking murray and a protected first round pick?
The bobcats can keep him if they want to quite easily
by jemagee on Feb 18, 2010 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
ESPN's Marc Stein and Chad Ford
Confirming that Houston was the team that tried to get Amare at the “11th hour”
Not details yet ... a link is coming soon, apparently.
It was probably crap, and centered on Battier since they just picked up Martin and traded away Landry.
I would of liked if we got Budinger or Jordan hill in that trade…
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
They couldn't have moved Jordan Hill with any other pieces
And Hill couldn’t be traded for Amare outright under the CBA
Jordan Hill is terrible.
I rarely throw stuff like that out there, but it is sadly true. He has long arms, but no nose or head for the game. And that Italian guy he’s playing for isn’t well known for schooling youngsters.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
His per 48 numbers are pretty fantastic(better than Hickson's)
I think he produces really well in the limited minutes he gets.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Well
I agree to disagree, i watched almost all of his games at UofA and the guy is very athletic, also he started to develop a jump shot at Arizona as well…..He wouldn’t be bad off the bench…We all know how Mike D is with youngsters…one mistake and you’re in the dog house for a few months.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Let's just say he's a "project"
And needs to do yoga. Here’s Wayne Vore from Pounding The Rock and me picking apart Hill at Summer League.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Well
He only played two years of high school basketball and two years at Arizona…The first year he didn’t see much action…He’s an athlete though and you can’t teach that…he might be a little weak but he’s only 22. Plus, the NBA is kind of moving away from big, strong Karl Malone type PF’s and moving to slim, quick and athletic.
He is much, much better than Hickson in my opinion.
I can’t believe Cleveland wasn’t even offering Hickson…they were REALLY betting on Kerr’s stupidity in the deal.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Per Marc Stein:
Suns would have received Luis Scola, Shane Battier, multiple draft picks, and Brian Cook’s expiring contract.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924306
If those picks were first rounders, that’s actually a pretty good deal.
Yeah it is....hrm
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Scola's contract is great
Battier is owed like $7m next year. I don’t see him as a fit in Phx at all. He seems to be on the rapid down side of his career. But still, some 1st round picks and Scola for Amare?
I like that. Too bad it came in so late….if it’s true at all
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 8:06 PM MST up reply actions
Yeahhh
I like it too. But I think the initial tag line makes it sound closer to done than it actually was:
“But the source said Phoenix wanted to waive the requisite physical examinations for the players involved to make sure the trade went through in time, only for Houston to refuse because of Stoudemire’s injury history.
Yet another source with knowledge of the talks disputed that account, telling ESPN.com that the Suns initiated the conversation by asking for Battier, Scola and draft considerations, which Houston refused."
So it’s not like the Suns front office just turned them down outright here. Can’t feel too bad about missing out.
by underxthebridge on Feb 18, 2010 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
that makes much more sense
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 18, 2010 8:43 PM MST up reply actions
I'm sure they did
The video is from before that news even broke. The article has been updated several times over. It’s ESPN, gotta ride the hype train as fast as possible and then flesh it out over time!
by underxthebridge on Feb 18, 2010 8:59 PM MST up reply actions
Scola
Only has about one year left right? He would probably command what…7 or 8 million on the open market? I don’t know if he would translate well in our system though…The Rockets offense is much more scripted than ours…Still if Amare ends up walking that would be the deal that got away.
Battier would just be an expiring deal since I kind of look at Dudley as a younger version of Battier.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I wish he'd tried to make that deal earlier.
I prefer this deal over all the others, just because I hold Shane Battier in the highest esteem, and I think being in Phoenix would have physically rejuvenated him.
He is exactly what we need on the defensive side: a high basketball IQ player who can read offenses and direct his teammates, so that everything tightens up, who automatically makes us a mid-level defensive team just by being on the floor.
With Nash running the show, I think you can put pretty much any decent PF in place, and get 18 ppg on 15 shots/game, so I don’t think we’d have missed much on that front, bearing in mind that Sideshow is starting to show signs of life, on the offensive end.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 18, 2010 9:03 PM MST up reply actions
You guys have it all wrong
Event of things to happen (in no particular order)
1) We resign Amare to a 3 year 54 million dollar extension.
2) We trade JRich or Barbs this summer, probably Barbs for a nice defensive piece who can shoot (there will be plenty available I’m sure)
3) We sign a fat big man in the lane with our MLE Leon Powe type or Drew Gooden type player who can bang around for boards.
4) Hill is on board now and picks up option
5) Frye goes to LA Clippers for 6 M a year for 3 years.
6) We are able to compete next year with the best of them and our defensive woes are improved along with rebounding.
It wasn't far-fetched until....
You stated that Frye would go to the Clipps at 3 years @ 6 million per…Even Mike Dunleavy isn’t that silly…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Positive spin on all this?
Amare is still a top notch offensive player. I’ll get to see him dunking over people the rest of the season, and maybe through a first round. On the flip side, I’ll get to see other people dunking over the Suns unabated.
Sigh. . . I also heard that now the front office has to meet with Amar’e to mend fences regarding how close they came to trading him. Really? I mean can someone be so delusional as to believe that one dimensional offensive skills and tepid at best rebounding and defense shouldn’t be traded?
One dimensional offensive skills?!?
I don’t agree…I know you get to photo him a lot at the games, but I have seen a lot of PFs come down the pike since 1977 (When I first started watching games as a kid) and I can count the number on one hand with more polished offensive skills than Amare…
Duncan, Barkley, Elvin Hayes, Bob McAdoo, K. Malone, Dirk, and maybe KG in his prime (Some may also make an argument for McHale..)…Of those only Duncan, McHale & KG can be considered great defenders. All were good rebounders with the possible exception of the Big E who tended to get lazy once Unseld came around…
What I am saying is that there haven’t been a whole lot better at the position. For what he brings, I think Amare is a great player…Not a Tim Duncan or KG in his prime, but certainly a very nice star to have on your team.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I'll be interested to see how Amares skills degrade with age...
The jump shooting should stick but once that explosion is gone and with no back to the basket game and little defensive and rebounding skills to show it will be interesting….
A back to the basket game isn’t something you can develop over night either…. It takes a lot of really skilled guys years to develop post moves and counter moves and the ability to pass out of the double team
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Superelk
You are right Amare’s skills will deteriorate over time, that’s just a result of aging. Fortunately for us Amare DOESNT have a post game because he can still get us 22+ ppg by completely abusing his defender— nobody can guard him because of his athleticism. That is a very valuable thing to have for us as a team this creates problems all throughout the opponents D.
Over time you bet Amare will have to learn post moves, when he can’t rely on his athleticism anymore. But that won’t come for years, and I am not worried about it when the time comes and he has to develop a post game. The kid shows he’s a work horse especially on the offensive end and he’s already got a nice looking jumper which he could use in the post exactly like Dirk or Garnett does.
minus100 to Max: Kindly reacquaint yourself to Amare's offense, D and rebound
Please give your Amare hatred a rest. Or at the least back it with some facts…
Here are some thing to chew on:
Wow, what a post
Having failed to move Stat, the onus is now on the Suns to resign him. The team can ill afford to let him walk. It looks like a sign and trade scenario. The ‘rub’ is that the team was not able to get ‘value’ for Amare.
There are probably several teams who will participate in the free agent auction next year that will be sorry that they did not complete a trade with Phoenix. It’s likely one of those teams will be willing to give him a max contract. Many NBA owners are not well known for clear thinking. LOL
We kept him. Yes!!!
I ‘m so happy he stayed. Every one making judgments on money and trades, that they thought should have happened for STAT. You are not a GM and gladly won’t be. To think that having certain players together like the Mavs that now have Butler and Haywood makes them better is a mistake. Even though the teams name is infected with deep “suckiness” Clippers had Baron Davis , Al Thorton, Marcus Camby , Chris Kaman of good names, they couldn’t work. Names don’t matter. Look at Artest, he has become a three pt shooter. Like what the ?…. So the blame for defense is not on Amare it’s on Nash. Stop the guy with the ball, stop the ball of getting any where. Steals, steals, steals, steals, steals!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to worry about fouls when you are the offense “go to” guys and it is Nash and Amare. These guys can’t afford fouls which means lack of defense, so that ticky tac fouls are not placed on them, duh. You can’t be as aggressive. I would have fouled out. Use up all the fouls, why not. I could never understand not using all the fouls. Go steal crazy and boxing out crazy, it’s a mindset.
I agree with you, Nash is a defensive liability
but you forget that
1) Nash is not one dimensional offensively, and involves several people when he’s on the floor. Remember, the year Amare was out, seven Suns had career highs in points. That’s Nash ball. By contrast, when Nash doesn’t play, the wheels come off. This is when the Suns most resemble the mishmash of talent you accuse the Clippers of being. It’s not so much that names don’t matter, it’s that they really do have to work together as a team. With Nash, you have that. With Amare, you don’t.
2) Amare doesn’t save his fouls. He often takes late swipes at players who grab rebounds that he could have gotten himself if he actually played with some heart. Does he get into a lot of foul trouble? Nah, I won’t go that far. But he does get more than his fair share of stupid fouls, so I find it hard to believe that the same guy who racks up stupid fouls is also smart enough to avoid them.
Bottom line: Amare is no longer a young player with upside. He is a young veteran set in his ways, who plays mediocre at best solely due to lack of effort. It sure isn’t lack of talent or skill.
With Nash? He actually tries to play defense, he just makes bad decisions, like coming over on double teams when it’s not called, leaving his team to rotate too slowly. He also doesn’t have the same level of athleticism as Amare.
I don’t like either, but I prefer someone who at least tries.
by Max Simbron on Feb 19, 2010 12:31 AM MST up reply actions
I wonder what would happen or what will the current situation be in the Suns if Nash were as athletic as Amare or at least Derrick Rose. Also I agree with you about Nash’ effort on the defensive end. If Nash don’t have the ball he tries setting a screen or tries to lock the opposing player. I’m not saying that Amare doesn’t does those things but he doesn’t do it more often and especially for a guy whose always been praised for his unmatched athleticism. But Amare is Amare and like you said he is “a veteran set in his ways”. Asking him to average at least 10 rebounds per game would be futile. His style of play has been successful first, for him and second, for the team.
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
nicely put... but there's more to it..
Part of the problem with Amare is that he’s a sidekick who thinks he should be starring, and that’s really at the root of his inconsistent effort.
One of Steve’s shortcomings, imho, is that his brand of leadership only works for people who are self motivated, and need a little support when thinks aren’t going their way. He doesn’t establish himself as the alpha dog, and he’s not the sort of person who leads through force of will, like a Jordan, say, or a Bird.
I actually think that if he’d been traded to the Cavs, Amare would have developed into the kind of player we all hoped he’d become playing here, because LeBron is the only player in the league who has both that force of will and a collective leadership style at the same time. Kobe doesn’t have it, and neither does Wade. You only have to look at Shaq, and see how he’s deferred to LeBron in a way he never did here or in Miami.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 19, 2010 1:42 AM MST up reply actions
Thats a pretty weak argument to Diawfan Max
Amare hasn’t been the player he has in the past racking up stupid fouls, I cant remember a game this season where he got into early foul trouble resulting in him sitting.
Nash is the problem with Amare’s Defense, if you take a look at who Carmelo was a couple of seasons back when AI was there he was a kid who didn’t play a lick of D. This is partly because AI was the leader of the team and AI cant guard a frog getting into the lane, nor does he care to play D. Chauncey got there and things turned around the entire team is now playing great and Chauncey turned that Denver team into one of the toughest teams in the league. They aren’t a great defensive team today because of a ton of player changes, actually they took a step back in talent with the loss of Camby. George Karl is still George Karl so I put the entire reformation of Denver on Chauncey, he was the “leader” that molded this team in his image.
When you have a defensive minded leader on the team you don’t need to coach it, but when you have a defensive absent leader aka Nash there’s no way you will get the most out of your youngerer players. Nash is the only Suns player who takes more defensive plays off than Amare. I just really hope Nashism does not rub off on our younger players mainly Lopez.
I think I am going to get a Nash for Billups thread started.
+ 1 SSOHoward: Nash's weak perimeter D leads to easy assists to enemy bigs
And Amare get blamed for it when they do score…
Sheesh…
- 1 to Max: Nash is one dimensional and does not try on D and Amare has lots of upside
1] Nash can’t play half court or make basic entry passes as can be seen during the Porter half season. Nash is super turnover prone, which has not improved over time
2] Nash does not or cannot play D, except takes charges, which is tupid with his back problems. Please refer to the career games rival PGs have against him for the last few seasons, as well as how well Kidd manhandled him and his lack of heart in the must win game against Dallas last season. The recent game against Mavs has Kidd with 7 steals…
2] Amare has been playing better help defense and has been defending much better this season. Everytime he is injured, he heals faster than expected and comes back better than before i.e. after micro srugery, he developed a deadly jumper. He has grown to become of the best jump shooting big men who is just as deadly when finishing around the rim
Read for yourself:
After a slow start to the season where his timing and athleticism were still recovering, Amare is now putting up big rebounding numbers on a consistent basis. He had 21 boards against the Spurs and had a five game stretch last month where he averaged 13 per game.
Most importantly, he’s bringing the effort on the glass almost every night. You’d be hard pressed to find 3 games this season where Amare’s effort hasn’t been 100%.
It isn’t comparable to look at a specialist like Lou Amundson who in limited minutes puts up gaudy rebounds on a per 40 minute basis. Lou has a great nose for the ball and puts in a ton of effort but I seriously doubt that if he were playing 35+ minutes per game every night that he would be able to sustain it. And let’s not even talk about free throw shooting.
While I won’t go as far to say that Amare is an elite rebounder he clearly ranks at the top of the class when it comes to power forwards that play big minutes and are also counted on to score the ball. His reputation here is far worse than his reality.
Defense:
Defense has always been a struggle for Amare but he has benefited this season from a much simplified defensive game plan that has him showing hard on each and every screen. He’s done a good job using his quicks to disrupt the ball handler and then recovery rapidly to his man.
His post defense is decent and like many of the league’s players in that he struggles with guys that have great back-to-the-basket footwork (Al Jefferson, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph). He gets into trouble when he’s in help rotation especially against teams like Toronto and Orlando that run funky stuff like a 2/3 high pick and roll where his assignment changes to being a help defender instead of being involved directly in the play. He simply doesn’t have the instincts of the league’s top defensive players like KG and Duncan and doesn’t make good, timely decisions when teams force him to think fast.
Most importantly for the Suns, the days of teams abusing Amare in the pick and roll game are gone. Credit to him and the Suns coaching staff for cleaning up that glaring weakness in his game.
I find it hilarious
that you use something I wrote that got republished somewhere else as a defense of your position.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 19, 2010 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
- 1 to Seth: I only used the link to show how Amare has improved this season
I find not calling out Nash for poor D everytime Amare is called out even more funny at this forum.
I also like to bring out that I was the one who flagged Amare's wish for Gasol pay
Instead of the people here…
this is something i've always wondered:
for the past couple of years, people have said that the suns aren’t a half court team. granted, they really dont have a back to the basket post presence, though amare has shown improvement in that area this year. but isnt the pick and roll considered half court? i mean, its not like we pick and roll on the fast break. and over the past couple of years we’ve had one of the best P&Rs in the game. why arent we considered a good halfcourt team?
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 19, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
I think it is pretty ridiculously overstated that Nash is that horrible of a defender...
He is not good by any stretch of the imagination but does give effort, is decent sized for a PG at 6’3’’, and does chase around picks pretty good. The Suns give up 2.8 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than with him off the court which, again, isn’t great but definitely is serviceable.
Look at a guy like Russell Westbrook. People think he is a good defender at the PG spot because he has the athleticism to be a good defender but his team gives up 5.5 more points per 100 possession when he is on the court.
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
I think people think Nash is a worse defender than he really is because he is old and white
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
Just like people think Westbrook is a good defender because he is young and black
by Superelkman on Feb 19, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions
Stats dont tell all
Nash is on the floor with our starters, he is hardly ever on the floor with the bench players. There are 2 distinct groups on the floor at all times, a squad of starters and a squad of bench players and usually Amare or JRich float between groups or sometimes both of them play with the bench at the same time.
SO its not as clear cut as these lousy statistics tell you, those statistics aren’t pulling ONLY Nash out of the equation those statistics are stemmed from running a completely different lineup.
So realistically “pure stats” don’t tell you a whole lot because they aren’t representative of the big picture. These stats only take a snapshot at a particular time and they assume nothing else in the environment changes. SO we know in fact these stats do little to help make decisions or conclusions. This is why I am not a fan of anything Hollinger.
I don't agree with everything you said...
You stated, “because LeBron is the only player in the league who has both that force of will and a collective leadership style at the same time. Kobe doesn’t have it, and neither does Wade.”
I beg to differ…Kobe is the closest emulation to MJ as far as willing a team to victory…MAany of the things he does and says in dealing with teammates are straight out of MJ’s textbook.. Ask any NBA player or any coach, which player they would want to have the ball at cruch time( if they had a choice…) and virtually all would say “Kobe.”
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
that's not what I meant...
This is hard to describe, but what I’m talking about, wrt Jordan, is a leadership style where you impose your will on your teammates and basically bully them into following your lead.
Jordan was all about how hard you were, and he would test you constantly, to make you tougher. There’s a famous story about Jordan and Kerr getting into a fight, where Kerr earned Jordan respect by not backing down. And you only have to look at Pippen, with & without Jordan to see that effect.
Wade and Kobe, to me, are strong-willed individuals, who can pull their team along, somewhat, in a Jordan-lite kind of way. But neither of them have the capability to lead like Nash. LeBron does both. that was my point.
His leadership style combines the two polar opposites of a Jordan and a Nash, at the same time, and that makes him unique in today’s game. AFAIK, the only other guy who had that leadership style was Russell.
And it doesn’t happen with LeBron, either. The rest of that team are a bunch of overachievers with him on the floor, and did you ever expect
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 19, 2010 10:37 PM MST up reply actions
oops.. scrub that last paragraph..
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 19, 2010 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
Assuming we sign Amare
Who could we get at the MLE that could improve our team?
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 19, 2010 9:23 AM MST reply actions
I would like to trade J Rich with Battier during the offseason
Both are expirings but Battier is a good perimeter defender and glue guy who can space the floor with 3-point shooting…
I’m sure you would
But why would the Rockets?
by jemagee on Feb 19, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
Interesting fact
according to forbes, annual Sarver only makes 567,000 hm…..
"What I've achieved now is something that I always figured I would as a kid. I've had that type of determination since I was a youngster playing around the playgrounds, getting dirty after school." - Amare Stoudemire
Thats pretty good given the economic climate
There isn’t a whole lot of business that can say they are in the black right now. Something like 25%+ of restaurants are shutting down right now because they can’t generate sales, so I have little pity for Sarver.
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