Amare Stoudemire to the Miami Heat - How Would That Look?
by Seth Pollack on Feb 2, 2010 4:24 PM MST
in Commentary
54 comments
In our continuing series of "Where in the World is Amare Going", we put on our bikinis and shades and head to South Beach to get out party on / explore what a deal with the Heat might look like.
Just a reminder, we've already looked at deals with the Nets, Warriors and Bulls.
The Heat are facing the possibility of losing Dwyane Wade to free agency this summer which has got to be their top priority. One has to assume that a key to Wade staying in Miami will be whether they can commit to surrounding him with more talent and with a guy like Wade that means a big man.
Of the free agent big men out there we have Mr. James (you might know him by his given name, LeBron), Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer and our own Amare Stoudemire.
You might think that the pairing of LeBron and Wade would be a dream scenario for all involved but think about it for a moment. When I say, "LeBron" don't you picture him perched on his throne at the top of the key with the ball in his hands running the show? Or maybe you picture him topless in a cornfield. I picture him pounding the ball at the top of the key but hey, not that there's anything wrong with that if you go to the topless in the cornfield place.
And now think about Wade. Ball in his hands. Creating off the dribble. Getting into the lane. Pulling up for J's. Hitting cutters and spot up shooters.
How on Earth are LeBron and Wade going to coexist on the same team outside of an all-star game or Team USA?
So lets just assume that Pat Reilly is smart enough at basketball to figure out that he can't give 60% of his available payroll to two guys who both have to have the ball in their hands to be all they can be.
That takes us to Bosh, Boozer and Amare.
We already heard that the Heat like Bosh over Amare as the better defender but between Boozer and Amare I would give the edge to Sun Tzu.
If you are Miami do you wait until the summer and duke it out with about about 7 other teams who have cap space they've been promising their fans they will use on a big name or do you strike now at the only one of those guys available at the deadline. Amare Stoudemire.
I have not the answer to what the Heat will do but there's your case for them going after Amare. Sound logic but far from an obvious outcome.
Miami has plenty to offer should they decide to get Amare.
Like the Bulls, Nets and bikinis on South Beach, there are a myriad of ways the Heat could put a deal together that would meet the Suns desires for the triple crown - young talent, draft pick(s) and salary relief.
The obvious prize for Suns fans is the one asset the Heat would likely least want to part with: Michael Beasley.
He of the amazing smooth moves, silky shooting touch, nose for the ball and drug/mental rehab experience.
Since Beasley is a coveted young talent and thought of by many Suns fans as an "Amare replacement" lets take a look at their numbers side by side. Granted, Beasley is only in his second season and Amare's in his 8th but that's what replacement means.
Not much of a comparison. Beasley is a tweener three/four who doesn't shoot as well from range as Amare, doesn't shoot as well close-in as Amare, doesn't get into the lane nearly as often as Amare, doesn't rebound as well as Amare and statistically isn't much better defensively.
As talented as Beasley is, there's no question that a lot of his appeal is of the new car smell variety. The Heat would be much better off putting Amare next to Wade and the Suns will be getting a perimeter oriented undersized power forward who probably should learn to play the small forward at some point in his career.
To make the deal a little more palatable for the Suns, the Heat can throw in their 2010 1st round pick. They also own Toronto's 1st round pick in this draft which is lottery protected. That gives them two picks in the 15 to 20 range. Giving one up shouldn't be too painful.
To make the salary numbers work the Heat have a couple of options. The easiest is the ironic Quentin Richardson who was traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker's phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists (no idea either...just move along).
Deal #1: Beasley, Q Rich and Miami's 1st rd pick for Amare
Q Rich and his $8.7m expiring could be combined with Beasley's $4.6m and Trade Machine says, Green is for Go.
As an added bonus the Suns would knock another $3m of this season's luxury tax.
Deal #2: Beasley, Udonis Haslem, James Jones, Miami's 1st rd pick for Amare and Taylor Griffin (or Jarron Collins)
You remember James Jones. The guy who used to play for the Suns and at one point was one of the team's better wing defenders and in Portland went on to hit some ridiculously high percentage of his three-point attempts.
JJ's still shooting over 40% from three but he's barely playing on a fairly mediocre team and - big and - he's got 3 years left on his contract at about $4.6m per year AND he's got a 15% trade kicker. But - big butt - his contract isn't guaranteed beyond $1.8m for next year meaning the Suns could waive him or use him in another trade.
Haslem is an expiring contract that can still play which is why I have a hard time imaging the Heat (who after all are a playoff team in the weak-ass Eastern Conference) would give him up.
I'd take him though. James and Haslem and Beasley would combine to help the Suns at least get to the first round which is their ceiling this season anyway.
Deal #3: Haslem, James Jones, Dorrel Wright, and Miami's 1st rd pick for Amare and T-Griff
Now things start getting unappealing. Wright is a $2.8m expiring contract / small forward. This deal is basically a salary dump that rents the Suns Haslem and nets a 1st round pick. You've got to think the Suns can do better than this.
Deal #4: Jermaine O'Neal and the Heat's 1st rd pick for Amare and Barbosa
JO is a $23m expiring contract that the Heat seem willing to move but I don't see how on God's brown desert the Suns could do this deal and frankly there's no other deals that involve JO that make sense either. At least without a third team involved and I am not even going there.
A deal with the Heat that nets Beasley, an expiring and a mid teens 1st round pick seems to me to be about the ceiling for what the Suns could hope to land for Amare.
I am not a big Beasley fan myself and would worry about his long term viability in this league. Guys that have the kind of problems he's had so early in their career almost always bust out. JR Rider. Darius Miles. Chris Anderson.
Beyond the personal problems, I see Beasley as a guy that needs to be paired with a big that can really dominate in the paint since he's a perimeter oriented 4 and while we all are loving on Robin right now, it's a little soon to call him the next Al Jefferson.
In theory, the Clark/Beasley tandem would give the Suns a nice defensive 3/4 combo but you could also end up with the most immature, laid-back duo since...(stumped for an appropriate reference). Athletically the Lopez, Beasley, Clark group is intriguing but who's going to be the head honcho of those guys - the one with the biggest hair?
All other things being equal I think I prefer Yi to Beasley.
Yi is a more efficient shooter, has similar rebounding numbers that are improving year over year as opposed to Beasley who's flat, and isn't likely to smoke his way through a paycheck and end up on America's Most Wanted.
[Note by Seth Pollack, 02/02/10 5:17 PM MST ]
KTAR.com - Suns Spotted Around The League
Gambo is reporting the Suns continue to have conversations with Washington regarding a possible deal involving Amare Stoudemire. Key pieces that could be possibilities to wind up in Phoenix are Caron Butler and Randy Foye. Antwan Jamison is too old for the Suns liking and was bothered by a sore left knee on Monday.The team mentioned last week and again brought up today is the Philadelphia 76ers. The 76ers could package a few of their players - Samuel Dalembert and Andre Iguodala - as they both take up a good amount of Philly's salary cap. Dalembert has $12.2M remaining on his contract.
We'll get into both of these in more detail in coming days. I am not thrilled with Butler and like most people am intrigued by Iggy and Dalembert and especially if JRich can be included..
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i don't like any of these as a suns fan
I’m not a big Beasley fan either. He’s undersized and really doesn’t seem to posess the raw talent needed. And if we were going to get a 15-20 pick from Miami, then we might as well commit ourselves to completely rebuilding and trade Nash too. I can see a trade with Miami anding in disaster. A bunch of bad pieces does not make up for losing one really good piece. James Jones? Udonis Haslem? J.O.?
Really, it boils down to the fact that Miami really doesn’t have anyone I’d like to start for the Suns. This would be a desperation move at best, and worse than MAXing Amare then trading him.
Crashing the [message] boards from the heart of Spurs Nation, San Antonio, Texas. GO SUNS!
I like deal #2 best of the Miami trades. However, Miami is my 3rd option with Houston coming in 2nd and Philly in 1st. I’d prefer Iggy over Beasley.
Love Haslem
I know he’s expiring, but he’s developed a nice midrange and he’s tough as nails….
Oh and:
“…traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker’s phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists .”
legitimate LOL moment.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
As a Beasley fan, i would love to see him in a Suns uniform.
As an Amare fan, i’d hate to see Amare in anything but a Suns uniform.
But if i had to lose Amare, Beasley is the kind of up and coming star that i’d want to get in return.
Clarke Fropez and Beasley would be an awesome combo that you could ride for several years as they develop.
Yi over Beasley? *SEVERE BIAS ALERT*
I get the red flags with Beaz but you had me until Yi. I assume by more efficient you mean worse shooter since Yi is shooting 42.6% (Beasley at 46.3). He may be shooting 42.9% from three but he’s also made just 9. But I’ll venture to say you actually mean Yi scores only 1.6 less PPG while doing it on 2.1 less shots per game, which seems almost negligible to me.
As for rebounding:
Yi’s three year – 5.3, 5.2, 6.8
Beasley 2 year – 5.5, 6.7.
It’s a tad different but I wouldn’t really say that’s a massive increase v. flat production or anything. Also I know it was college where Cherokee Parks was a dominant force, but Beasley put up 12.4 RPG in his one year at K-State.
I think Yi’s alright but how much better is he really going to get? Beasley has the way higher ceiling IMO – I would be anxious to see how he does when you take him away from a ball-dominating superstar (Wade) and put him with a distributing PG. Beasley is just one of those guys who can put the ball in the basket…and well.
And finally as someone who is extremely biased I am required to say something about how he’s not a trouble maker and it’s just boys being boys. So…that.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
Good if we can get Haslem as we need a veteran at PF while Beasley develops
Kindly note our centres are all relatively inexperienced, so we need an experienced PF to help out.
As for Beasley, he can build his offensive game like Amare by training them one season at a time.
However, my concern is that Beasley is not that agile and he has problems covering fast forwards. This is something all the Heats fans picked up as well as the main issue with his defense…
Amare has been a stand-up citizen in Phoenix from what I heard of his activities
However, we are just looking for equal value at this point for trading him.
Any trade must improve our roster to help us get to the play-offs. Please don’t trade for low picks or expirings because we cannot afford to tank this season/miss play-offs as we have no first round pick!
Sir Charles
Well, we traded for Charles Barkley and that worked out pretty well. I wouldn’t consider him a shining example of character in his younger years either. Also, Amare had character issues as well. Beasley is a young man who was 19 years old when he had the problem…Marijuana of all things which I would say has more than large following among NBA players. I couldn’t imagine being 19, being the number one draft pick and having the weight of the world on your shoulders. I could barely handle a part time job when I was 19.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
maybe
it’s not just a little pot that worries me. Those reports from this summer talked about depression and other mental health issues
You all could be right about Beasley and in 3 or 5 years we will know for sure. My gut says Yi is the better long-term pick.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Remember that no one really knows how old Yi is
he might retire next year for all we know =p
I thought they
counted rings last time they cut him open to fix his knee??
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
speaking of LeBron James
LeBron James makes me very uncomfortable, for two reasons. One, his ego is large enough to make Amare Stoudemire look like A.C. Green, and his sportsmanship is rather low in comparison. Certainly, James is one of the players who comes off as being too big for the city he plays in. (I felt that about Shaquille O’Neal in Phoenix.) Two, he is undoubtedly the most marketed and hyped NBA player since Michael Jordan. Jordan was obviously a great player, but he was also some asshole who kept appearing on my television screen to tell me I should buy some product because he was famous. He was distasteful for that, and although no one will ever match his obsession with money and marketing, James is heading that way.
If Lebron was on your team
you wouldn’t give a damn about his ego.
Several things:
Solid defense, very athletic, and can even hit a 15 foot jumper from time to time. He’s also pretty young (what, in his 5th season or something and he’s only 23?).
Also, during the 9 game stretch in which Antawn Jamison was injured, he averaged:
14.1 PPG, 7 RPG, 1.9 APG, 51.9% FG, 50% 3PG (he only shot 1 for 2, but still), 75% FT, .3 SPG, 1.7 BPG, 1.5 TO and 2.7 fouls. Oh, and all of that was in an average of 30.1 minutes.
Not too shabby, eh? I’ve always been a Blatche fan. For a trade with the Wiz, I would want the following to happen:
Suns send: Amare Stoudemire and Taylor Griffin (or Jarron Collins, whichever they prefer)
Wiz send: Andray Blatche, Caron Butler, Fabricio Oberto and a 2011 1st round pick (I highly doubt they give up their 2010)
Why it works: The Wizards get a mobile, athletic, and electrifying big. They can relegate Brendan Haywood to stabilizing the bench as a veteran presence, and Amare can play starting C (if he can do it in the All-Star game, why not for them a la Phoenix Suns, pre-Shaq?). Couple Antawn Jamison and Amare, and you’ve got yourself one solid shooting front court. Plus, they get back some size in Collins, or a young player who may or may not (probably won’t) turn out to be serviceable.
The Suns get Caron Butler, who is an agressive 3, who can rebound, pass, and score the ball. While we have Hill and Dudley manning the 3 spot, Butler gives us a different look. Also, while I’m not super high on Caron, he could be a solid play for a couple years, at least until his contract is up. In Blatche, we get a super athletic PF who could start in Amare’s place. He’s already been in the league for 5 years, and he’s 23 (24 in August). He’s young, averages solid numbers when given the chance (see my comment up above), and just hasn’t been given the shot, with Jamison eating up huge minutes. We can buy out Oberto and he can resign in Washington, for all I care. He makes salaries match, and we can buy him out and maybe save a buck or two. (If I’m incorrect there, let me know. I’m not sure about the whole guaranteed/non guaranteed/insured/etc. buyout scenarios). On top of that, we get a 1st round pick for 2011, which I doubt we have.
Yeah? No? Comments…go.
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 3, 2010 1:38 AM MST up reply actions
Yup
my thoughts exactly…
Blatche is an athletic freak who would be great running the pick and roll with Nash.
The only thing I like about Butler is that he’s “only” making $10m next year and then expires so it’s not a long term risk.
Blatche is “only” making $3m so he would need to be packaged with other players. I would do Blatche and Butler but the Wiz probably wouldn’t so that means Blatche and Mike James, DeShawn Stevenson and Randy Foye. All three of those guys are expiring so the Suns could just waive them, buy them out or let them rot on the bench for the rest of the year. In this deal though the Suns would also have to get their 1st rd pick
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Randy Foye's pretty good isn't he?
I know we’re pretty stacked at guard but wouldn’t we want him?
meh
I would take him b/c he’s an expiring and he can certainly play but the Suns don’t need him for the rest of this season unless they plan on moving LB
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Dont want Beasley really...
too much of a character risk…
a trade with Miami would suck unless we got multiple 1sts since they are going to be no lower than 15th anyway
Wasn't Amare
A so-called “character risk?”
Sure they are/were different people and risky for different reasons. Just saying.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
He's turned out to be a really solid dude, but there were questions about his attitude and upbringing going into the draft
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Oh that - But I think Beasley will fit in fine at Phoenix unlike Miami with its distractions
Thanks for the clarification.
"When I say, "LeBron" don't you picture him perched on his thrown at the top..."
perched on this thrown what? what’s he throwing?
tee hee
just one typo?
Come on. You can do better than that
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 2, 2010 7:14 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I kind of like a colon over a period here:
If you are Miami do you wait until the summer and duke it out with about about 7 other teams who have cap space they’ve been promising their fans they will use on a big name or do you strike now at the only one of those guys available at the deadline. Amare Stoudemire.
I blog at Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on Feb 2, 2010 11:54 PM MST up reply actions
An alternative..
This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but at the risk of building the whitest team since the ‘86 Celtics, I’d try & trade Amare to the Knicks for David Lee, Darko’s expiring, and one other, possibly.
Bear in mind that if such a big trade happens, our chances for a ‘ship may diminish significantly, as we try to incorporate these new players.. although, as we’ve seen, keeping Amare on the bench hasn’t harmed us, so you could have Lee come off the bench for a few games, while he gets acclimatized, and that wouldn’t impact is too badly.
The upshot of all this is that we get a little less offense from Lee, but more defense all the time, and an attention span that doesn’t falter.
Let Darko spend the rest of the season trying to earn himself a new contract for next year (although I’d be intrigued by a Darko/Goran pairing, if the former can get his thumb out of his ass, and start playing to his potential). If he fucks up, then bye-bye Darko.
If both players stay on, you resign Lee for about $12M and Darko for, maybe, $3M, and now we have a significant amount of size at the 4 & 5 positions.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
But someone on this site said that David Lee is an awful defender. And who cares what a team’s skin color is?
that person would be *wrong* about Lee's defense..
and I was making a joke aboout the ’86 Celtics.. jeez…
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 2, 2010 11:23 PM MST up reply actions
Anyone who claims Lee is a good defender does not follow the Knicks.
Please inspect the merchandise before offering to trade for it. Thanks…
I agree.
He is not a great defender but a great rebounder which really helps a defense as the opponents will get less 2nd chance points. Plus he is good in the pick and roll.
his defense is underrated because he plays on the Knicks..
he has 3 teammates disinterested in playing defense, as opposed to being the disinterested one.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 3, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
Lee play worse defense than Amare though from the games I caught this season.
I don’t think Memphis grizzlies Randolph and Timberwolves’ Al Jefferson plays much better defense too.
The only reason why we want to go after Lee is that he’s cheaper than Amare and he seems to be able to average 20-10 in NY easily in the soft East.
I would love to see if Lee can do 20-10 in the stacked West.
I do think that Lee is a good offensive forward that can work with Lopez as a defensive-minded centre. Just don’t expect D, ok?
I remember seeing a video pointing out David Lee's defensive ineptitude.
And I just tried searching for it, but couldn’t find it. But yeah…it was HORRIBLE. It would have made Amare look like Dwight Howard. If I remember correctly, Lee flashed out on a screen and rolled back into the paint to protect the rim. Just like any center/big man should. Except, when the point guard rolled off the screen to the rim, Lee just stood there. He didn’t slide over in front of him. He just let the guard drive all the way around him and lay in an uncontested layup. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing…but it was true.
I’m not a stat guy (unless it comes to fantasy sports), but Lee is averaging 1.0 SPG and 0.4 BPG. While averaging almost 37 minutes a game, as the Knicks only legitimate option for a big man. So it’s not like the lack of opportunity is there. He’s just not a good defender.
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 3, 2010 1:48 AM MST up reply actions
I'd bet I could put together *hours* of tape..
from just the last 25 games of our power forwards’ embarrassing defensive lapses.
Heck, I could put together 20 minutes of Kobe, LeBron or even Duncan looking inept on defense, from just the last 10 games..
Just sayin’…
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 3, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Why...
Are so many of you so picky? Outside of the Sixers deal (If we can get Iggy, Dalebmbert and I’m crossing my fingers for speights)this trade would be awesome. Beasley was the number one pick just last year and had one problem with marijuana of all things. He’s just barely out of his teens. I think he would absolutely thrive in the Suns system. He’s the same height as Amare and 15 pounds less….seven years younger and cheaper. If we somehow got him, and a first round pick that would be a STEAL. He already has range in his game, something amare didn’t develop till post knee surgery. In two years times, Beasley would be a legitimate three-pointer threat as well. Also, I am biased to this deal since this was the deal I predicted in the trade contest :-) There isn’t that many deals out there to be had where we actually get something in return other than salary relief. Pau and Amare are pretty much the same player and Pau got traded for a bucket of nails, this is a bucket of liquid gold in comparison.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
+ 1: I like Beasley too despite his drug isses. He can ball and he can help this team quickly
with minimum transition issues as Miami has not been playing with a good PG i.e. Alfer has been crap offensively since the trade but Beasley still gets his.
Beasley was the #2 pick.
Rose was 1
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
To people who think David Lee plays good defense, kindly follow Knicks' games
… and the box scores.
I also urge you to take note of the number of points and rebounds the opposing team’s forward/centre rack up on the other side of the court. Preview the box scores of the opposing centre or power forward for the last few Knick’s games:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010013116
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;ylt=AugRXw4SNjob4G_lHKY7P2QvLYF?gid=2010012818
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=ArzTR3wKC81Yv5yL1RC6LYCQvLYF?gid=2010012618
Lee does have good games but more often than not, so does his opposing counterpart. So he’s like Stat, albeit, cheaper and less athletic. He also plays in the soft East…
Lee is a hustle and energy player but he seldom plays help defense or block shots as he’s an undersized centre. As a result, Jared Jeffries is being called for minutes as the defensive stopper of the team.
The good thing about David Lee this season is his evolution into a stretch-4 in that he can sink jumpers from the top of the key. He’s really money at that sweet spot.
the deal the suns should really be tryna make happen is with the nets to get there first rounder unprotected, who gives a shit if we dnt ne other player with it or a bunch of duds. the nets pik will surely be a top 4 pick and possibly even the grand prize being john wall who is a future franchise player and the perfect player to build around like a wade, kobe, melo.
Also if were gonna trade with phily we shouldnt be worried bout chasing brand aswell as iggy or iggy and other players. They should be tryna get iggy and philys first round pik and giving them amare and barbosa or amare and jrich.
Who ever above said its stupid to chase low piks is an idiot, the suns desperately need picks and if we trade amare and we dnt get a first round pik included in a deal then this will be yet another shit trade to add to the list
Trade
The only trade the Suns should be looking into is the Amar’e + JRich for Iggy + Dalembert + 2010 1st round pick/ Speights+ 1st round 2011. For anything t be better than it, it will have to be Amar’e for Bosh and JRich fr Iggy, both happening. Anything else is unacceptable. I’ll love to see JRich for Iggy and Amar’e resigning for 15-16mil
I still like the idea of getting Beasley the most of all the trades.
But in all the reports about a Phoenix/Miami trade, they say Beasley is being held out of talks, which to me, makes a trade with the Heat pretty dismal. I’d much rather have the Nets trade than a Heat trade without Beasley.
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