Phoenix Suns Daily Links: Channing Does Good. Amare Situation More Convoluted Than Ever
by Seth Pollack on Feb 8, 2010 3:43 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Daily Links
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PrintGood for Channing
Help for Haiti " Channing Frye's Blog
I'm not one for jumping on the donation bandwagon, but people, I'm asking you if you could to donate to the Haiti fund. That is just a ridiculously sad situation and anything you can do to help, would be greatly appreciated.
Now, back to topics 1, 2 and 4: Amare Stoudemire, where clarity is still weeks away.
Extension agreement? Trade deal? Nothing and repeat the process all over again in June/July?
A few weeks ago I was fairly certain that Amare would be gone this time. Now, I am not so sure. There's no doubt that there's a lot smoke but most of it isn't from fire but from a giant smoke machine being used to disguise the real intentions of the various parties involved.
It's an old Army tactic used to hide your movements from the enemy. That's what this all feels like right now.
The good news is that Chris Kaman will be an all-star! I feel better living in a world where Kaman is an all-star.
- What would be lost in an Amare Stoudemire trade| Valley of the Suns
Suns fans had no problem with the idea of sending him packing for a few youngsters, some expiring contracts and a pick or two when Phoenix lost seven of nine games. But now that the Suns look legit again, the idea of no more STAT tomahawk dunks or near-impossible And 1’s has to be a painful thought. The man is a weapon, unmatched by very few others in the league. When motivated, he is arguably the best offensive big man in the NBA, period. He can hit the jumper from 20 feet on in, drive to the hoop from inside of the paint or out, and finish with contact as well as anyone in the league. Oh yeah, one other important detail: He is still 27 years old. He may not be worth max money, but with the right contract, he could be the building block to something special. - NBA.com: Another week of uncertainty facing Suns' Stoudemire
What is known is that the Suns plan to offer Stoudemire an extension by the end of the week, before the All-Star Game, and how he responds will go a long way toward determining the next step. If he accepts, he obviously stays and everyone focuses on riding this 31-21 start into the playoffs. If he declines but says the numbers are close enough that the sides should keep talking, negotiations continue while general manager Steve Kerr and other teams also continue to talk. If the proposal prompts Stoudemire to storm out of the room, Kerr starts icing his voice box to prepare for the long hours of phone work ahead. - YouTube - Deron Williams interviewed by Matt Harpring
Deron Williams calls Jarron Collins the most un-athletic guy he's ever played with. - The curious case of Phoenix Suns guard Steve Nash
Stockton retired at 41 and is one of the few small guards who continued to play at a high level into his 30s. But even Stockton pales - sorry - in comparison with Nash. Using his age at the start of each season as the measure, Nash averaged 12.4 points and 6 assists per game before age 30. Since then, he has averaged 17.2points and 10.9 assists per game. Stockton, like Nash, increased his scoring average after 30 - from 12.8 points a game to 13.2, but his assists went down from 11.2 per game before 30 to 9.9 after 30. And the drop-off after 34, like most guards, is sharp for Stockton. He averaged 14.4 points and 10.5 assists up to that point in his career. From 34 on he averaged 11.9 points and 8.2 assists. At 35, which is where Nash started this season, Stockton averaged 12 points and 8.5 assists.
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I'll say this much.
I would much rather give Amare the max, and have a terrible contract, than to take on a terrible contract plus another long contract for the guy we want.
Ahem…Iguodala and Dalembert/Brand.
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
Yeah. Right.
Who’s going to take on Brand’s contract? There’s a reason he hasn’t been traded yet. If there was anyone who was willing to take on Brand’s contract, the Sixers would have found them already and made the trade.
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 8, 2010 4:54 PM MST up reply actions
Well, it’s not like trading for Shaquille O’Neal: Brand is slow but not very old or fat, and doesn’t cost $20 million. I see it as trading for a more expensive Kurt Thomas.
You are correct
he doesn’t cost $20m. He costs $51m for the next three years after this one.
Brand and Arenas are neck and neck for the worst contracts in the entire league.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Vinny C?
Blogging at Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 8, 2010 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
Ah, Vince Carter.
Got it. He’s looking like he’s worth that $16mil tonight. He’s simply incredible.
He’s still my favorite player in the league that doesn’t wear a Suns uniform. Him and Josh Smith.
Blogging at Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 8, 2010 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
Have you read “The Book of Basketball: The NBA According to The Sports Guy” by Bill Simmons?
Vince Carter may be one of the most scum bag players in the league him and his cousin T-Mac are probably tied. The way Vince screwed over Toronto is disgusting.
T-Mac did the same thing to Houston, I am so glad Houston decided not to trade him and let him rot on the bench after a microfracture surgery, so no NBA team can see him play since this is the last year of his contract. Instead of TMac being able to prove that he is healed and land another huge contract I’m sure teams wont be able to see him play I LOVE it!
Houston was going to ship him off last year (I forget which team some team he didn’t want to go to) so he said two days before the trade that he was going to have to get microfracture surgery to kill the deal, so he wouldn’t have to play for a city he didn’t like.
He planned his surgery so that he would be back just in time to showcase he could still play and thus get another big contract. Love the fact that Houston refused to trade him so he couldn’t “showcase” his skills and not a single team will give that dude anything more than an MLE I’m sure.
if its true
im not so sure thats a terrible thing.
the nba, like any other organization is a business. the players have to be businessmen just like the FO and ownership. i wouldn’t want to be transfered to Iowa or Oklahoma or some place that I found undesirable . I also would want to make as much money as possible.
just saying
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 9, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
Watch it I graduated from Iowa State. And true dat I’m never going back!
The TMAC situation is kind of scum bag you have to admit, TMac was going to get paid wherever he went. But that’s part of the business you may have to live in a city you don’t like to make your paycheck as a player, that is just how it works.
Although if I were in Miami’s front office however I would never give large contracts to anyone because players would desire to live and play there regardless.
But it is nice to know we beat the Hornets without Paul, and it took Orlando a player dropping 50 to beat the Hornets in Orlando.
I am no VC fan
but he’s only got $21m guaranteed after this year and it far more productive than Brand and Arenas.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
Do you remember VC's deal in Toronto?
He demanded a trade mid season from a new franchise that was struggling, and he actually stopped playing for the team at one point. Instead of benching him for the rest of his contract a few years left I believe (like I would have done) and let his career rot away they on the bench so they traded him for little value and Toronto sucked for all of those years until they drafted Bosh…. —-sounds similar to the Phoenix situation doesn’t it…? Hopefully Phoenix can learn from Toronto’s misfortune and not repeat it. There’s just no way to build a team if you have to give away your stud and get nothing in return.
Sure
but that situation is nothing close to this one. Amare isn’t acting like that and his contract is close to the end…
I don’t get the comparison?
What would you have the Suns do? I think we’ve all already agreed that plan A is to try and agree on an extension and keep him. If the Suns low ball him on that then I will blame them but if he refuses a reasonable offer then that’s on him.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
The comparison is almost identical, Toronto had no choice but to trade Vince so they took nothing for him, similar to Phoenix’s situation, if Amare refuses an extension we are going to be put in the same exact place Toronto was in. Where you have to trade away your star player for close to nothing because you are afraid of getting nothing for him.
Its not about what Amare does or doesn’t do, despite how Amare handles the situation is completely out of managements hands, a ton about business leadership is reacting to things, situations that are out of your control, the management has to have a plan of action in place.
Management has to do better than most of the stuff I’ve heard on these threads: Ilgalskus, Hickson/ Deng, Heinrich those are absolutely garbage trades that would put us in that Toronto situation. And although Kerr made a bold and great move landing us Shaq, I’ve seen nothing to indicate he is a great business leader.
Or if ownership doesn’t have a plan in place to get some value for Amare they have to be prepared to give him what he wants in $$$$$$$. I (like most fans) buying tickets would rather see them overpaying for Amare and being competitive than blowing things up and starting anew.
If you look at Toronto they have never recovered even with good management in place in Colangelo and drafting a top 10 player in Bosh. You’d think those two factors and 5+ years from the situation with Vince they could have recovered but they have not, they are still a .500 team. So blowing things up and getting young new talent in does NOT guarantee good things will happen in the future.
I’d rather hang on to what we got at least we are winning, no matter the price tag.
Ok - I respect that
Disagree, but respect.
It will all come down to what Amare really wants when the dust settles.
There are countless examples of teams doing what you suggest and paying the guy too much and it hurting the team for a long long time. Ben Wallace in Chicago. The Knicks about three different times recently. And of course Brand and Arenas.
Brand is more unfortunate than a mistake since he was playing so well when they signed him – they couldn’t (I assume) predict his injuries.
Gilbert though – giving him that big contract after having all those knee issues and a history of…goofiness. Lots of people thought that made a mistake in giving him that deal at the time and I think if the Suns give Amare 5yrs and $100m+ they are risking the same thing – ie. being stuck with a huge contract that burdens the team for a long time.
So yes, while trading current talent for future prospects doesn’t always work out (it did for Seattle/OKC) neither does resigning a guy to a deal that’s too large always pay off.
It’s a risk either way. It’s a bad situation which we’ve been pointing out for well over a year now.
As for blaming Kerr for not getting a better deal? Well, it takes two to tango. I can’t say if it is possible to get a better deal than what’s being reported b/c I don’t know what other teams are willing to give up.
It is easy to sit back and say, “he should have sold his car for more” but unless you are in the room and know all the details bit really is mighty unfair speculation.
Either way – we are right in the middle of it so there’s no possible way to cast judgment until what’s done is done and played out over time.
Clearly, the dumping of Kurt Thomas’ valuable expiring contract was a mistake. I’ve never heard anyone say otherwise. The Shaq trade was a mistake in retrospect but lots of people liked it at the time. Lots didn’t. A gamble that didn’t pay off. The Bell/Diaw for JRich/Dudley trade is also one that people have mixed feelings about. The draft picks that Kerr has been responsible for so far are looking good as are his free agent signing – Hill, Frye, Amundson.
There’s reason to be hopeful and have trust and there’s reason to be skeptical and distrustful.
But one thing’s for sure. Until a deal is made (or not made) we can’t pass judgment on anything.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
I definately see your point
But if you have to sell your car today to support your crack addiction then you probably wont get full value for it.
Those large contracts you mentioned definitely put their teams in a tough situation (primarially because they aren’t producing anything—- Amare is producing) , but there is an argument to be made for all of the teams on why they still suck, other than having a guy make 30% of the cap.
When things are going well and you are winning you can foresee some of these contract issues in the future and should plan for them so you take care of your guy. The Suns should have extended Amare a long time ago when they were winning when he first started playing like a superstar a perfect time would have been after the ‘07-’08 season where we lost to the Spurs in the playoffs where Amare was on a tear. Why not tack another 4 years on to the 2 more years Amare was on contract for? And extend him until 2014 or whatever. That way contracts and money dont get in the way of the main goal of playing to win! Amare wouldn’t have been able to focus on his game instead of worrying about real estate values in a new city.
And most importantly we could have signed him for much less than he wants now!!!!!
interesting...
Extend him after 2007…I guess that would have been a good idea as well
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 9, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I think when you are dealing with a power hungry player like Amare you can’t give him too much control over the franchises future. He’s unlike Timmy and KG in that they signed reasonable contracts when theirs expired without breaking the bank for their teams. They probably could have pushed it for max but had more tact than that.
Phoenix should offered Amare to another 3 years at 10-11 million when he was lying on his death bed for the 10 days after his eye surgery. Amare would have taken any guaranteed money at that point because I’m sure he was well informed on the extent of his injury and his chances to see again.
The Suns would have had to roll the dice on his future also the public had asymmetric information on the extent of his injury but I’m sure Kerr was well informed about his chances in returning to full health.
Totally Agree!
Unless we get Phillys unprotected first rounder and Iggy and either speights/young (which is never going to happen) i don’t want Brand, simply because of his contract.
About Haiti, the blog by the new king of insensitivity, Paul Shirley, made me think of a related point. I am not going to blame the Haitians for the condition of their country, but their suffering is not more important than that a few miles away from me. Therefore, I will keep donating money to st. Mary’s Food Bank instead of Haitian relief.
I guess we al see thinks uniquely...
Freedom of choice is what makes America great…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
…Then everyone meets back here to go through it all again for the 2011 deadline.
Please God no. No more Amare this or that. No one wants that.
Getting the feeling they may kick in a little more than they want for Amare and he extends.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
That's what I'm thinking as well.
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 8, 2010 8:01 PM MST up reply actions
I think Amare stays as well. If not than he goes to the 76ers. If we do extend him I still think we try to get Iggy by trading J-Rich(Still a possibility if the 76ers get desperate). The Front office wants him as much as I do.
why not
im sure the FO wants him at the right price. everyone has a value. for 20 ppg anyone would be desired. unless your tmac of course.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 9, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
It was reported a few days ago that Griffen from the front office was scouting a Hornets6ers game. Meaning he was there at the game. From this we can say that they really want Iggy and I believe if Amare resigns they will still try to get him. They may not get him, but I bet they will TRY.
I don't get why the 6ers would trade for richardson if they get "desperate"
his contract doesn’t expire this season so it doesn’t solve the one reason they want to make trades which is to dump salary. If they just wanted to dump Iggy they could send him to Dallas for Howard or Houston with Kapono for Mcgrady. Both those contracts expire after this season.
Yes, but
The Sixers get rid of a 4 year/$55mil+ deal, get similar production out of Richardson, and only have to pay him $14.4mil for next season. It’s still a cost cutting move. They may not see the benefits right away, but they could very well see them down the line.
One way is using Richardson’s contract as a trade chip this offseason. Many teams would love to have the production an aggressive JRich offers, and more teams would love his huge, expiring contract. And, if no one takes on the trades, they still get production (albeit in a less effective way than Iguodala), and he expires at the end of the season.
Cost cutting moves can seem like you’re taking on more contract at first, but cutting a long contract can be just as good as immediate savings.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 9, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
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