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What's the ceiling for the Slovenian Sun?


The Suns backup PG from Slovenia has exceeded expectations (and in the process created new ones that may or may not be realistic) this season. He who I cannot name has been playing his role very well as of late and the question has come up as to what his ceiling might actually be as an NBA player. So fellow Bright Side-ians, I pose that question to you.

Poll
What is the Slovenian Dragon's ceiling?
Move over Magic Johnson
34 votes
Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Gary Payton-esque
131 votes
Chauncey Billups (All-Star)
225 votes
Mo Williams/Jameer Nelson (fringe All-Star)
362 votes
Chris Duhon (good but if he's your starting PG you're hoping for 35 wins)
38 votes
CJ Watson (good but best used as the first guard off the bench)
33 votes

823 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 111 comments |

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Tough call. After last season, I would have been hesitant to even say he was a suitable back-up in the NBA. But he’s improved so much over the course of a season that it becomes hard to tell where his ceiling is. I think, at worst, he can be a competent starting point guard on a playoff-level team, ala Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson, so I selected that he’ll be a fringe All-Star.

However, if he improves his finishing with his right hand and cuts down on his turnovers. He could MAYBE be an All-Star. The unfortunate thing for him is that he has some real competition for an All-Star spot. He’ll be battling Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Brandon Roy, and Tony Parker for his whole career, and maybe even young guys like Stephen Curry, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Rodrique Beaubois. I think from a practical standpoint, it’s highly unlikely he gets voted onto an All-Star team, even if it’s playing really well.

by jburning on Mar 2, 2010 1:54 PM MST reply actions  

More over Magic Johnson. Dragic will be leading us to a title in 5-6 years.

by Beavis 25 on Mar 2, 2010 1:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I kinda agree...Dragic will be a good solid point guard for several years at least...

Just not sure if he is allstar material…He is not a pure passer, nore a pure shooter…Does some things very well and he is fairly athletic, but I am not sure if he breaks the all-star ceiling…I think next year we will find out a lot more about Mr. Dragic…

"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."

Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...

by Sun God on Mar 2, 2010 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm thinking

fringe all-stars. My heart says more but my head (which could be already too optimistic) says fringe all-stars.

By the way, I think CJ Watson > Chris Duhon.

Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!

by gadogry on Mar 2, 2010 2:18 PM MST reply actions  

I think they’re pretty similar and the bottom two are basically the same – both players are good but are better off of the bench and will probably never be the starter on a true contender

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:19 PM MST up reply actions  

But Chris Duhon is not "good"

Sergio Rodriguez couldn’t get off the bench anywhere he played and 2 games in he bounced Duhon for the starting job.

I really think that if Mike D had a half-decent PG (like, say, Felton), NY could very well make the playoffs this year.

For comparison:

CJ Watson career PER = 13.8, best year = 14.2 (08-09)
Chris Duhon career PER = 11.4, best year = 12.9 (05-06)

Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!

by gadogry on Mar 2, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Did you draft Duhon on your fantasy team and get burned or something? I was pulling names out of the air on the fly. Substitute any player’s name you want…the point is the same.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes I dislike Chris Duhon more than I should

It’s kind of irrational. I just like to let it be known that Chris Duhon sucks every chance I get. Nothing personal, watdogg. I do get your point (even before my Duhon rant).

And FYI, Dragic has 14.9 PER this season. Comparables: Jarret Jack (15.2), Raymond Felton (14.8).

Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!

by gadogry on Mar 2, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

The All-Star question is difficult

because it’s out of the control of the player. Dragic may play like an All-Star, but he may not have the popularity level of some of the other players in the eyes of the fans, so could get snubbed.

by jburning on Mar 2, 2010 2:20 PM MST reply actions  

Don't get caught up...

Yes, All-Star is somewhat out of a player’s control (if you’re really that good coaches are usually good at getting in those who really deserve it), but look more at the players name. Nash, Kidd and Payton are a step below Magic. Billups is a step below them and so forth.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Upside

is hard…he’s got a long way to go BUT what I’ve seen so far has been impressive:

1) He’s added both a mid-range and long-range shot just this season. He was a pretty poor and infrequent shooter before this season. Think how long it’s taking Rondo to add that kind of range.

Goran is 39% from three while Rondo is 24%.

2) His court presence and leadership is improving FAST. Sitting court side yesterday I could hear him directing traffic, giving instructions and basically running the team. I was most worried about this and figured it would take him longer due to cultural differences, etc but Goran is confident and likable and he’s earned the trust of his team mates.

The speed at which he’s improved so far is what makes me wonder how high that ceiling really is.

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 2:25 PM MST reply actions  

Really, he was scouted as a good shooter just had zero confidence last year whereas Rondo was never a shooter. Still wish we would have held on to Rondo when we had the chance – we wouldn’t even be having this discussion right now.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

it was surprising to me how poorly he shot last year. if you looked at his pre-draft workouts on suns.com, he had a really nice stroke hitting jumpers from the elbows. and it wasnt just that he was missing in games – he was missing BADLY.

Banzai!

by Suns' Sensei on Mar 2, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually

I recall that he was drafted for his defense with his shot being described as a “work in progress” or something…

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions  

You may be right...

Looking back he lacked a pull-up jumper (which he’s added so kudos to him for that), and his spot-up shot wasn’t listed as a strength or weakness. My bad…going off of memory in a quick fire.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions  

that dribble pull up shot

is impressive…there are a LOT of guards in the league that don’t have that or don’t have the confidence in it.

To me it says more about his rapid development and how quickly he became comfortable and confident. What does that say about his ceiling if he’s already come so far, so fast?

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 5:07 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree…didn’t see that coming. To me he has come a long way but not necessarily in the areas I personally would’ve liked to see him improve (namely, his ability to see the floor, run a coherent offense and get his teammates the ball in a place where they can be successful – a lot of his passes players have to reach for and it takes from their rhythm and many times causes turnovers).

That’s why I maintain that he will be best as the first guard off the bench where he can play more of a combo guard against second units. Besides, nothing wrong with being a good 6th man…just ask Jason Terry or Manu Ginobli.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 5:13 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah i remember a couple sites saying something like that. i think it may end up being a little backwards though. his offense is progressing pretty quickly. his defense is solid – pretty good positioning, solid rebounder, contests shots pretty well. i dont know how much better he is going to get at defense though, because it seems to me that he plays kind of flat-footed on defense. i dont know if that’s something that is easily fixed or not.

Banzai!

by Suns' Sensei on Mar 2, 2010 6:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd like to get someone like Hollinger's analysis of Dragic & Lopez

He completely trashed both of them last season and going into this season, so I wonder what his revised opinion would be.

by jburning on Mar 2, 2010 2:34 PM MST reply actions  

ya. he called dragic the worst player in the league didn’t he?

Banzai!

by Suns' Sensei on Mar 2, 2010 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

$5 says

Hollinger will write a sentence with both “Goran Dragic” and “MIP” in it before the season’s over.

Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!

by gadogry on Mar 2, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I think you are grossly underrating Chauncey Billups...

Chauncey is such a smart, saavy point guard and has all the physical tools you need to be elite… he is definitely in the same category as Paul, Williams, and Nash… I would definitely put him in the top 5(include Rondo and the other 3 in there) and wouldn’t fault anyone for making the argument he was the best PG in the league

by Superelkman on Mar 2, 2010 2:51 PM MST reply actions  

Not saying he's not...

Right now but over the whole of their careers Nash, Kidd and Payton are a step above.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Thats debatable...

he has LED his team to a title and has had FAR more playoff success than the other three… the other 3 have not led their teams to a title and do not have nearly as many conference championship appearances as he does… and don’t get me wrong I am not a whoever has more rings is better loser… but if you looks at those Pistons teams he was by far the best player on those squads and hit a majority of the clutch shots for them… look at how that team imploded when he left…. look at rip hamiltons production since he left… look at when Denver really joined the elite teams in the NBA…. they are revolve around Chauncey Billups….

its not your fault…. everyone underrates the guy and has for a long time because he isn’t as flashy as some point guards but he really gets the job done

by Superelkman on Mar 2, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Well everything’s debatable…some people will debate that Kobe is better than Jordan.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

and until recently Billups has owned Nash in head-to-heads

Billups is definately an elite PG….he does nothing great, but he’s very good at everything…good passer, good defender, clutch shooter….he basically steadies what looks like a very rocky boat with the nuggets…I mean jeez J.R., Birdman, Martin, and NeNe are some misfits

by ron_dasun on Mar 2, 2010 5:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Stockton could (and should) also be aside those three

by perep on Mar 2, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Come on guys

This was not meant to be a historical ranking of every PG in the history of the league…just a few names to guage where Suns fans think he who I cannot name’s ceiling.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

But what about Kevin Johnson?

Are you saying that Billups is better than KJ?

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions  

And how could I not have Mugsy Bogues anywhere in the list…I’m an idiot. Sorry guys – we should just delete this post.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 5:05 PM MST up reply actions  

I loved when they ran that clip during the Laker game

where Chauncey claimed he didn’t want to "drink his own Kool Aid," but then went on to say he’s the most complete PG in the L.

He then proceeded to turn the ball over 3 times in 4 possessions and got burned by Fish twice.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 2, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

your crazy

the ones that think billups is so great i know this is about goran and i think it’s to early to comare him to anybody but a second year player backing up the best pg.but billups has always had great talent around him i will grant him he is big and can shoot when open but that’s it sorry they didn’t get to the finals without rasheed and the nuggets may have just been a better team last year but no finals

by clinton p on Mar 2, 2010 3:56 PM MST reply actions  

That’s the best dunk I’ve ever seen him throw down…a lot of his have been pretty weak – not that this has much to do with the topic at hand

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:04 PM MST up reply actions  

The question was for his ceiling

and i voted Chauncey Billups. Meaning he’ll probably make a few all star games. I don’t think he can be a hall of famer yet since this is his second year!

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:08 PM MST reply actions  

Billups? fine...

If he became only as good as Chauncey Billups, that would be entirely acceptable. Billups was good enough to lead one team to a championship and some conference finals series.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 4:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I only voted Billups

because he’ll make a few all star games which is his ceiling as of now. No two players are a like in the NBA. I’m not saying he’ll become Billups. He’ll go to a few all star games like he did.

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Funny

He’s started what, 2 NBA games and we’ve already got him down for making a few NBA All-Star games…maybe he will but you make it sound like it’s a foregone conclusion

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:25 PM MST up reply actions  

nope i'm saying

it’s ceiling which means it’s the best he could ever become. Players usually don’t reach their full potential

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

it's because he's improved so much from his rookie year

that I gave him a high ceiling

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I understand what ceiling is, the way you worded was just a little weird, that’s all…

I only voted Billups because he’ll make a few all star games

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I get it

but i did add which is his ceiling as of now. I did word it weirdly

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:51 PM MST up reply actions  

I think this talk about whether he will be an All-Star is not a very good thing. I know we want him to become that good, but aside from being a measure—a very questionable measure—of a player’s value to his team, being on All-Star teams has no practical value whatsoever. And there are great players who fail to make All-Star teams despite deserving it. It’s a popularity contest.
(I say it is a questionable measure because there are at least two ways to make a mockery of that. One is the Allen Iverson way of being an All-Star—by being a great individual talent but not a team player. The other is the Yao Ming way—having an entire country with a large population vote for you (and your injured teammate) based on your nationality.)

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 4:09 PM MST reply actions  

Again, look more at the player’s next to the All-Star or fringe All-Star and choose which one you think best suits Goran’s ceiling, this isn’t rocket science people.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:15 PM MST up reply actions  

ok but what about who the coaches pick

they are all deserving

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:18 PM MST up reply actions  

They certainly have better judgment than the idiots who voted for Tracy McGrady.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 4:21 PM MST up reply actions  

There are always ‘snubs’ (Josh Smith was more deserving than Al Horford this year for example) but the ceiling would be to play at an All-Star level regardless of whether he got selected to the team or not.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes but David Lee

only made it b/c of injury so how does that factor into Goran’s ceiling?

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 4:52 PM MST up reply actions  

if his team was over .500

he would’ve been in the all star game

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 4:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Even though he was selected due to injury

It still meant that he, over a bunch of other players, was the next best option and worthy to fill in for the (better) injured player.

For example, Kendrick Perkins could have been chosen. Had that happened, I would have been utterly confused (and called the whole thing a sham), but yeah. He was still deserving, and earned the spot, albeit due to injury.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 2, 2010 4:57 PM MST up reply actions  

i wouldn't say that was true

i mean Jason Kidd got picked as an injury replacement for the asg and he was nowhere near the most deserving player (this was before that ridiculous triple double he got a few weeks back) and david lee should never have been chosen over j-smoove.

by DaveJD on Mar 2, 2010 5:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Sarcasm isn’t always understood around here…however, I think he who I cannot name will be twice the rebounder as Lee and end his career with about 200 more dunks than Lee.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 5:08 PM MST up reply actions  

I think I missed the whole Twitter convo

But why is he “he who I cannot name”?

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 2, 2010 9:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Because he despises everything Goran Dragic.

He’s doing a good job trying to talk about it though! I’m proud of him :)

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Mar 3, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions  

Click the link in the story...

I lost (or am anticipating losing) a bet with Seth in which the loser is never allowed to mention he who I cannot name’s…umm…name.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 3, 2010 10:50 AM MST up reply actions  

Lol - guess I forgot about that part!

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Mar 3, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

So...

How come you didnt mention pointy mc pointerson, who the position point guard was named after?

And I would like to Suggest that HIS New Nickname Be “Lord Balldemort”

PSN ID- presbot

by presbot on Mar 3, 2010 1:06 AM MST up reply actions  

it's all about rings

Let’s measure a player by how many championships he led his team to. If a player led his team to even one, I would call him great even if he had zero All-Star appearances. Considering the distortions in All-Star voting caused by fans’ foolishness, it could possibly happen.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 4:25 PM MST reply actions  

Better player...

Charles Barkley or Rasheed Wallace?

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

I am willing to include how close a player came, so I would give you the expected answer. But I wouldn’t include Broccoli on a short list of great players any more than I would Wallace. Broccoli’s work ethic regarding his physical conditioning was too poor. I think he would have been injured less if he hadn’t weighed so much for his height.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Barkley...

One of the 50 greatest? Top 5 PF?

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know about 50 greatest.

But I’d put him in the top 5 for the PF spot.

There have been a hell of a lot of great players to be at the other spots.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 2, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions  

If Barkley isn’t on your list of 50 greatest you need to go back and remind yourself just how good he really was. Dude was 6’4" (coincidentally around the same height as Goran) and was absolutely an incredible basketball player. Regardless of whether or not he ate 1 or 7 dozen too many donuts dude could BALL.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 5:07 PM MST up reply actions  

+1 big time.

Reminds me of that old Sportscenter commercial with Evander Holyfield. “Charley come on out”

http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/

by Scott Howard on Mar 2, 2010 5:16 PM MST up reply actions  

if Barkley's weight made him injury-prone...

Well, sir, I said a short list. A list of the fifty greatest is long enough that it might well include him. Barkley had weaknesses. His short height wasn’t his fault, but he doesn’t seem to have been a great defender (maybe an okay one), and I think we can’t minimize the limitation his weight put on his play. You remember all those back problems he had, don’t you? I’m not a health professional of any kind, but I suspect that the back problems were due to supporting too much weight for a 6-4 frame. And that last game in 1994, where he had a pulled/strained groin (Sam Cassell jumped on it during one of the last plays)? I’ve wondered if the groin pull would have been less likely on a lighter body.

And of course there was the fact that Barkley was stuck at power forward despite that every other Suns forward was taller. Coach Westphal initially wanted him to, but he couldn’t do it because, as he said in training camp, “Cedric Ceballos beat my butt every day.” Maybe he could have done it if he’d been lighter.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 5:42 PM MST up reply actions  

6'6" actually.

And I’m not disputing the fact that he was amazing. He was a fantastic player, and he’ll always be in my heart for the run we had in ‘93. I just don’t think he’s a top 50.

I would put him solidly in my top 60-75, though.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 2, 2010 10:00 PM MST up reply actions  

6'6" on a good day...

I’ve seen him in person and he was definitely not 6’6". Dude was 6’4" they listed him as taller but it was pretty common knowledge back in the day that he was shorter than that.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 2, 2010 10:26 PM MST up reply actions  

He was shorter than Jordan

I just think that one of the top 5 PFs of all time has to be one of the 50 best players of all time. He was amazing.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Mar 3, 2010 8:53 AM MST up reply actions  

The bigger question is: PG or SG?

He might look better as a 2, where he can create off the dribble and look for his own offence, rather than as a distributing PG.

Actually, he might be best as the 1/2 element of a three guard rotation like Dumars was – a pure PG, Dragic and Barbosa is a pretty mean three guard rotation!

If Dragic ends up a 1/2 rather than a 1, that’s OK by me!

by MMotherwell on Mar 2, 2010 4:45 PM MST reply actions  

I think he's a distributing PG.

He has all the tools. Right now, he’s just not being asked to run the offense. But when he has taken over and run it, he’s run it with pretty good authority.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 2, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't see any reason why he can't become better than Jameer Nelson

Fringe all-star

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Mar 2, 2010 5:28 PM MST reply actions  

Robin Lopez's

Best case is Joakim Noah and his worst case is Marcin Gortat.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Robin-Lopez-1073/

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 5:32 PM MST reply actions  

I really like both of those players so that's good news for Robin haha

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Mar 2, 2010 5:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Slovenian Sun? nice nickname

By the way, “Slovenian Sun” is arguably even better than “Dragon.” Whoever came up with it (Watdogg?), congratulations.

by 8472species on Mar 2, 2010 6:01 PM MST reply actions  

The way your poll is worded is "what is the ceiling...?

To me this means how good could he be? It does not necessarily mean he will be that good. Understand? With his raw skills and physical tools Goran could become a truly dynamic player and great point guard. As to whether or not he will, well, there are alot of variables that come into play. What is a players level of drive or motivation to be great (i.e., his “inner fire.”) Some players have great raw skills but a lack of desire to develop as a player. To be truly great takes not only God given ability but tremendous desire and work ethic. Does Goran possess those traits? I don’t know. Does he have the inner drive or fire to put in the work? Again, I couldn’t say. There are also other factors such as injury and the team one is on — being stuck on the wrong team can limit one’s development. Fortunately, Goran seems to have been embraced by Nash and should enjoy all the benefits of his tutelage.

Despite the above listed uncertainties surrounding character,work ethic etc. I think we are undoubtedly looking at a player with great athletic gifts and an already good skill set. It remains to be seen if he can reach his “ceiling”, which I think is pretty high.

by Jack Frost on Mar 2, 2010 6:08 PM MST reply actions  

nice post

Personally, I think that the ‘sky is the limit’ for Goran. His improvement has been exponential. He is still a very young and relatively inexperienced player. Give him some time, he could be in a class that includes players like Jerry West. He has that sort of physical skill set.
West was still in college at a comparable age.

by da suns on Mar 2, 2010 6:38 PM MST up reply actions  

This makes me think of Kerr's PG draft statement

I remember Kerr saying that Dragic was in their opinion the 2nd best PG in the draft behind Rose. In light of the current discussion do you guys think that his ceiling is the 2nd highest for all of the PGs in that draft?

by gtenney on Mar 2, 2010 6:53 PM MST reply actions  

not long ago

I looked at the PER of his class of PG’s and he was in fact second best :)

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 2, 2010 7:04 PM MST up reply actions  

nope

westbrook. he is pretty good now… he’ll be awesome 2 years from now as the thunder win the championship

Libertarianism is just Anarchy for rich people

by Murcy on Mar 3, 2010 8:06 AM MST up reply actions  

Westbrook also has been playing

85 minutes per game for the last 2 years…

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Mar 3, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Guys, kindly note that Dragic has the benefit of learning under Nash

While Rose, O J Mayo, Russel Westbrook has to start and learn on the fly.

Dragic is doing well under “controlled” situations in limited moments.

Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves.

by magenta on Mar 2, 2010 7:47 PM MST reply actions  

true

but he doesn’t get the minutes those guys get. And he probably won’t until Nash retires.

Steve Nash plays D!!

Twitter: @PhxSuns86

by phxsuns on Mar 2, 2010 9:17 PM MST up reply actions  

We've seen what happens when a PG tries to emulate Nash

The best part about Goran’s game is that it’s his own. I really wonder how beneficial it is to Goran to be playing under Nash. I’m sure he has a lot of great insight and is helping Dragic out a ton, but I think the coaching staff is probably helping him out the most. Igor was on board for almost all of Chauncey’s time in Detroit and I think he’s probably having a huge impact on Dragic’s development.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 2, 2010 11:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I think it's a combo of both.

You can’t really teach what Nash does. It’s a gift. But I do think that Nash has helped open the court up a little more for Dragic. Helped him find passing lanes, learn how to better execute a pick and roll (Nash has got this down to a science), etc.

Also, that’s interesting about Igor. I had no idea he was there during Chauncey’s time in Detroit. That’s really when he solidified himself as a bonafide All-Star caliber player, as evidenced by winning his Finals MVP during the year they won it. Props to Igor…that’s a pretty good resume builder.

Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton

by iamtrevorpaxton on Mar 3, 2010 12:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Nash

tells him all the time to play his game…and Goran understands this too

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 3, 2010 6:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Sometimes...

…when watching the games, and this could be an effect of watching on internet feeds, I can’t tell if Nash is in or if it’s the Dragon. I think the way he moves and passes the ball resembles Nashtys style more and more every game.

by bmxican on Mar 2, 2010 10:48 PM MST reply actions  

I think that is until the pick and roll

Goran struggles with it…Goran is a much better slasher to the rim and get a lot of his assists as he is heading full tilt to the goal and a help defender peels off…

"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."

Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...

by Sun God on Mar 3, 2010 9:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Goran is actually

rated as “excellent” running the pick and roll according to a secret stats source I have access to

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 3, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Lopez and Dragic are making me feel real good.

We made up for five years of crap drafts in two picks in one year.

Fanaticism is not logical

by SunDolphin on Mar 3, 2010 9:24 AM MST reply actions  

Made up for is a little strong...

Considering all the players we either had and gave away or could’ve had.

Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson

by watdogg10 on Mar 3, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

Yea, plus if we would’ve kept those draft picks we may have already gotten a title with that 07 team.

by Beavis 25 on Mar 3, 2010 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

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