Channing Frye is our MVP (most valuable presence)? No way...
Channing Frye is the epitome of "one trick pony". He can't play post defense, he doesn't offer help defense on a regular basis, can't rebound worth a damn and can't even get his own shot against a smaller defender in the post. If he doesn't hit at least two 3s in a game, I wonder why he's even on the court. Especially at the end of every game, in lieue of Lopez.
So how is it that Channing Frye in the Suns' leader, and 13th overall in the entire NBA for chrissake, in regularized adjusted plus/minus for the entire 2009-2010 season?!?!?
I know, I know. At the mere mention of obscure stats, your eyes have begun to glaze over. Take another sip of coffee, or swig of that Monster drink in your hand. Or, you've already decided that it's a BS stat, cuz there's no way Channing Frye is the most valuable Sun.
In honor of this weekend's Geekapolooza somewhere on the east coast, do me a favor and keep reading. Click around on that link. Very interesting, easy-to-read lists. It's stats like these that quantify the value of guys like Shane Battier and Trevor Ariza and Quinton Ross and ...well, Channing Frye.
If you're a stat geek, here's the full commentary on regularized adjusted plus/minus. In a nutshell, it tells us how successful the team is while you're on the court, as opposed to an average replacement player. Reportedly, it's twice as good as 'adjusted plus/minus' (used by 82games.com) which was already twice as good as the plus/minus number now provided in daily box scores. It is this kind of advanced stat that teams like Dallas and Houston use to pick out gems in free agency and trades (Houston: Battier, Dallas: Brendan Haywood). It also tells us that LeBron James is the best in the game, but you already knew that.
Regularized adjusted plus/minus factors in the other players on the court. If you play all your minutes with LeBron James, your plus/minus is artificially high. Likewise, if you're the best player on the New Jersey Nets your plus/minus is artificially low. So this stat smoothes all that out, somehow, magically, to tell us... what, exactly?
Here is Mark Cuban's take:
"...these numbers don't reflect necessarily the best players in the league, but what they do reflect is the players that are being best put in a position to succeed and are delivering. When their teams have a need, they deliver..."
And that's Channing Frye.
How? I guess by spotting up on the 3-pt line, he pulls a low-post defender out of the paint. Or forces the opposing team into going smaller than their normal lineup (which results in bad defensive rotations due to unfamiliar lineups).
Maybe that's why he's always on the damn court at the end of the game, instead of Robin Lopez (who incidentally is a positive influence on the bottom line too, along with Steve Nash, Richardson and Goran Dragic).
Channing is NOT our best player. Nor is he a quality, all-around rotation player that any team could use in any system.
I'm still confused how all this works out, but it does prove that Channing Frye is absolutely PERFECT for this system.
And he's our best chance to win. I guess.
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also interesting
Frye and Nash are our 2 best in this stat, and Amare and Grant Hill are among the worst. So that removes the bias of who you’re always playing with.
Any stat
that shows Amare and Grant as the 10th and 11th best players on the Suns is suspect in my mind…
http://www.hoopnumbers.com/allAnalysisView?analysis=RAPM&discussion=False&leaders=False&year=2010
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
I tend to agree
but 82games.com puts these two low on the list as well, using a different formula.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
not AS low though
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com@dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
but my eyes
put them much higher so there’s that
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 6, 2010 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them.
sorry… couldn’t resist..
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Mar 6, 2010 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
yeah, pretty much
though they do illustrate how well Channing fits our system and with Nash. Kinda like Marion used to, in terms of net impact on the bottom line.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Shawn Marion…what a sad story. I wonder whether he’d ever come back to the Suns, if only at the end of his career a la Dan Majerle.
i don't see that happening, at all
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
but he might be the most effective sidekick
which, I think is the point here.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Mar 6, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
All this proves is that stats need to be taken with a grain of salt...
Stats can reveal some of the picture but usually not a whole lot… they give us a way to in some small way quantify things that are hard to view in a tangible way….
Channing Frye is just an OK NBA player…. he has a unique skill set so it changes the complexion game to some extent….
No, Channing is the best player on the Suns. We need to give him a max contract this summer.
by Beavis 25 on Mar 6, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
of course you know thats not what I'm saying in the post
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
agreed
Stats are only a part of the whole picture. If you combine stats with gut feelings and observation, you are more likely to be right in player evaluation. But you can’t JUST base it on observation and gut. Stats are a growing part of scouting.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Frye cost the Suns the game with Utah
Frye was on the court when Utah made their comeback. His lack of toughness, defense, mobility and his inability to hit the basket were key ingredients in Utah’s win. These types of statistics are blind to what is actually happening on the court in situations where another team takes advantage of matchups and poor defense. Show me who is on the court when you make your push to victory. Honestly, it made me physically sick when the Jazz were catching up to the Suns and Gentry left Frye on the court. When Gentry woke up, it was too late. Poor coaching decision on that one but that was not the first time Frye’s lack of defense and poor shooting cost the Suns a game.
To be fair, Carol Channing Frye has come a long way this season. He needs intensive help with his mobility and needs to have more altercations like he did Saturday night. I do not think he will be back next year unless he becomes more agressive and a lot tougher. He may well be on his way to his 4th team or out of the league. They don’t even have 6’11" finesse players in Europe any longer.
there were 4 other guys on the court too
Channing WAS a big problem in that game and many games (as I infer in the first paragraph of the post above), but taken over the course of the season and various points in all those games, he’s a net positive.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Except...
Much more key to Utah’s 4th quarter comeback were:
- Deron Williams continually abusing Steve Nash.
- 4 fourth quarter turnovers (2 Nash, 1 Richardson, 1 Lopez)
- Amare Stoudemire abandoning Mehmet Okur for what turned out to be a dagger 3.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa

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