With the return of Barbosa, where does he fit in the rotation?
by Grey_Hound on Mar 7, 2010 9:52 AM MST
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PrintLeandro Barbosa will return in the next few weeks.
Alvin Gentry needs to find him some time on the floor. But when? and with whom?
I like the defensive minded Suns as they are right now. I think Gentry should not bring him back in any major role because Barbosa does not play anything that resembles Defense, so his role should be very limited too times when the Suns need a bucket or two.
Here is my rational:
1) Nash is already a big liability on the Defense of end of the floor, so Barbosa cannot be on the floor at the same time. ( Otherwise, the Suns defense is too porous.)
2) Barbosa cannot handle the point so he cannot really backup Nash. ( LB assists this year 1.7, career 2.3 )
3) Barbosa is limited to playing off guard when
a) Opponents 2 guard is offensively weak.
b) When Goran Dragic is on the floor and can play the opponents offensive guard.
I love Barbosa's speed and length, but he now needs to learn how to use it playing defense. Defense requires not just athletic talent which Barbosa has in plenty, but basketball IQ. For example, he stands too far back from his opponent (especially because of his speed he should be up in their face all the time), forgets to block out, and has no focus rebounding. (I could go on, but you get my point.)
What do you think?
Can we go back to the run and guns Suns?
Can Barbosa play Defense?
Will Mr. Gentry play Barbosa 10+ minutes a game?
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Barbosa is gone
After this season. He adds very little if anything to the Suns offense – and absolutely nothing to the defense. He’s streaky, and inconsistent. I wish they would have traded him after last season when we could have actually gotten something in return for him.
I think you're forgetting how good Barbs can be
We haven’t seen a healthy LB this entire season. If he’s in top form when he comes back we’ve got a legit scorer off the bench that could go for 20 on any given night.
by hcblankscreen on Mar 7, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
Word.
It’s SO EASY to forget what kind of a spark Barbosa is off the bench. While his defensive liabilities are noted, the guy provides a huge offensive lift to our second line.
If anything, I see him taking some of Grant Hill’s minutes with the second unit (where Gentry leaves Hill in as a secondary ball handler with Dragic). A second line of Dragic, Barbosa, Dudley, Amundson and Frye suddenly isn’t nearly as a stagnant offensively as we’ve seen it can be.
A healthy Barbosa and Dragic puts the Suns a full 10 deep, with Clark, Griffin and Collins as “in case of emergency, break glass” type players.
Also, have fun in Iowa, Earl! That will be one other result of Barbs’ return.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Sure
Barbosa scores 12 points and his defensive assignment scores 14. I have seen way too much of that. I do like LB and have enjoyed watching him play over the years. He hasn’t been able to learn much defense or how to run the point. What does it take to learn defense? How long do we talk about potential? His salary is beginning to look pretty significant compared to his production over the past two or three years. Can the team afford to keep him? Should they afford to keep him? What team keeps 3 shooting guards?
Are you so sure that Earl Clark will be going to Iowa or will it be Griffin?
I believe...
…our Suns sources have mentioned sending Clark down for some serious burn in the D-League, but injuries prevented them from doing so. That may have changed, but I still think it’s more likely that Clark goes down than Griffin, if only to get some increased minutes.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
IT WILL TAKE GUTS
to send Earl Clark to Iowa. Does that mean that T Griffin adds more to the playoff run than Earl Clark?
I agree that Earl needs PT. I wish that the Suns were able to get him into the game for significant minutes this Season. It was just not possible. He appears to be several more years away from really helping the team. I hope that the Suns do not give up on him prematurely. He certainly has the size and skill set to make a fine forward.
I don't think it's a case of Griffin > Clark
I think it’s more that Griffin has been down to the D-League already and the Suns will want Clark to get some increased minutes as a confidence builder/tune-up. I don’t see the Suns giving up on him any time soon. And likely it will be a short stint (a couple games or so).
Also, the D-League season ends soon. The Energy only have 9 games left, including 5 between March 20 and March 28. If anyone’s going down, I bet it’s for that stretch of the season.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Why such a short stint?
How much can he get from only a few games in the d-league? I’ve never understood why players go there so briefly.
judging by Dragic and Lopez
I dont think you have to wait several years to see what we’re going to get from Clark. he is more talented than either of those players, he just needs to figure out where he belongs on the court and what role he will fulfill. I’ll bet next year he’s in the regular rotation, maybe even guarding Durant and Odom in key games and showing he can contain them
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
He was our best player at the end of last year.
If he hadn’t gotten hurt, we would have made the playoffs.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Mar 7, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
give him Frye's minutes while Frye is suspended
If he comes back Friday, then for the immediate moment, the Suns could do the obvious thing and give Barbosa the minutes Frye would play. I know they’re not the same position, but they do pretty much the same thing—shoot three-point shots.
The need
for the suns right now is better defense and LB, Frye, Amar’e and Nash are the worst in that field. Nash and Amar’e are the best players on the team hence are untouchable. Dragic is our most complete guard right now and needs to play. I say we only play with Dragic, JDud and Lou so that he cancels out Lou’s O, except when we rest Nash, then we pair him with JRich and JDud.
Nash= 28 min – Dragic= 20 min
JRich= 30 min – LB= 14 min
Hill= 28 min – JDud= 20 min – Clark= 6 min
Amar’e= 32 min – Lou= 14 min
Lopez= 28 min -Frye= 16 min
I hope he develops D and becomes consistent or he plays very well to boost his value, so that we’ll trade him and Frye for Iggy and get may be Camby or whoever to replace Frye
Just
get rid of Clarks minutes and LB is playing 20 mins a game. Then, if J-Rich isn’t playing up to par we can have Barbosa be the primary SG. Richardson has a few good weeks and everyone forgets how bad he can be when he disappears and loses his confidence.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
LB
can also be pretty streaky, but JRich still does something on the defensive end, he also rebounds well
Richardson has
a career scoring average of just under 20 points per game. He is a smart, veteran, tough player who plays defense, rebounds and accepts any roll that is assigned to him. Sounds like a pretty good guy to have.
I never
said he wasn’t a good guy to have but he DOES disappear…Let’s not forget that. I’m sure you weren’t riding the J-Rich express when he was lucky to hit double digits on a nightly basis. They’re both streaky players…I know, that’s why you ride the wave. If Richardson is lighting it up…Sit down Barbosa and Vice Versa. One thing about this team is everyone knows there roll and accepts it. Gentry is good at feeling the game and seeing which rotation is playing best and whoever is gets the time. He doesn’t think like Nellie for instance and leave a player benched for two weeks for missing an assignment. He goes from a game to game basis. If Amare is stinking it up he’ll bench him in favor for a comparative scrub in Lou Amundson. Depth is never a problem and all Barbosa will do is accept his role and playing time and give Nash’s ever creaky back a rest. The difference in all of those series’ against the Spurs was they continually had fresh legs on the court being able to have a 10-11 man rotation compared to our 7-8 man rotation. With Barbosa we’ll have a 10 man rotation and will be able to keep our guys fresh and out hustle other teams in crunch time.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
"Depth is never a problem..."
raise your hand if you thought anyone would be saying this about the suns 2 seasons ago…heh
Timing
Just as important as the total minutes is the timing. You can’t have defensive liabilities in the game when you have a lead that you are protecting. The team needs to trade Frye and Barbosa if they can get some value for these players. We need more good, tough players that can fill a role, play tough defense and score a few buckets (but then who doesn’t?). Getting Camby is no answer. I doubt if he is able to play in half of his team’s games. He is oft injured.
Do you want to pay a guy for sitting? Teams can’t afford that luxury any longer. Things are rapidly changing in the NBA. Injury prone players are going to find less chances for employment. Teams are realizing that they must get production from their players. Someone will probably come up with a stat to measure such production.
As starter,j-rich as 6th
bbs does good as a finisher
I'd rather have Jrich as starter
"What I've achieved now is something that I always figured I would as a kid. I've had that type of determination since I was a youngster playing around the playgrounds, getting dirty after school." - Amare Stoudemire
by Suns R Us on Mar 7, 2010 9:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Did we miss Barbosa?
Your poll lacks one good answer. “Should we trade Barbosa?” Those who think his defense will be a giant liability and those who think he should play Earl Clark numbers have seen the light.
LB is another of the soft players on this team who have cost the Suns many games in the past because of poor defense. While Leandro can ‘light it up’ from time to time he will not add to the defensive toughness the second team has been demonstrating. Whose minutes are you going to cut? Dudley? He is the heart of the second unit. Dragic? He can actually play point. My guess is that any minutes going to LB will come from Frye.
The team should have traded Barbosa before the deadline. Perhaps they tried and couldn’t get value? LB has not been an asset to the team for the past 2 seasons. He certainly has proven to be injury prone. He has had five years to learn to play defense and learn the point position. Time to cut your losses, cut payroll and get rid of him.
Last Year
We were a slow half court offense with this HUGE, SLOW, COG in the middle of the lane at all times named Shaq…Remember that whole massacre of an experiment? This year he has been injured ALL year. He deserves a chance, the guy has given a lot to the team and it’s not like he’s breaking chemistry….EVERYONE on the team gets a long great and no one the team is selfish. Everyone knows there role and accepts it. If Barbs comes back and lights it up and takes some minutes from some guys the only thing you’ll see is cheering from the bench. He’s two years removed from being mentioned as a better sixth man than Ginobli and Terry.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Short memories....
Also…Most guys who come off the bench are one tool guys…
We have our rebounder/high energy guy(Lou)
Defensive Minded Three Point Shooter (Dudz)
Three Point Machine Big Man (Frye)
Back up PG of the future (Dragz)
Then Bam, we have Barbosa…an explosive scorer who when hot is absolutely deathly. J-Rich puts together a few good weeks and everyone is all of a sudden ready to send him flowers on a nightly basis…I’m not saying it’s going to happen or I want him too but the guy has a tendency to disappear..Lets not forget that. Also, any way we can rest our veteran warriors in Nash and Hill I’m fine with….Shave a minute off of everyone in the rotation and just take away all of Clarks minutes. Bam, that’s a guaranteed 12-15 minutes…Then, the rest play by feel and who is playing cold or hot. Depth is NEVER EVER a problem. Do you not remember the 7 man rotation days of Mike D?
Also, Barbosa was our primary back up PG for basically the last 5-6 years. He was a scoring PG but he was still technically the back up PG.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
As a PG,
he’s not anywhere as good as Dragic, may be as an SG he is better, but Dragic brings more to the table. The only reason i’ll play him is because the second unit lacks scorers, hence it won’t be too bad for a second unit of Dragic – LB – Dudley – Lou – Frye/Collins (i think we should use Collins more, especially when Frye’s shots are not going in, its not like he does anything else for the team). My opinion; give Frye+LB+Griff to philly for Iggy (if i’m correct, we have 2 2nd round picks, and we can give that as well to them)
Okay...
I never debated the fact that he was a better point guard then Dragic…Also, trading isn’t an option right now…I thought the whole point of this post was for what we’re going to do here and now and how he fits in. Frye has an option and who knows if he is going to pick it up….Also, Philly doesn’t need another undersized shooting guard…I think they’re pretty set on letting Williams play he’s been doing an awesome job as of late. The only way they’re getting rid of iggy would be a salary dump which would include someone picking up Dalembert’s deal. If they didn’t do it this past trade deadline what makes you think they’re going to do it this summer?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
oh how the mighty have fallen
Man was he good when healthy and in DAntoni’s system. When LB was hitting 45% of his threes and won 6th man of the year, we all knew he was one of the best values in the league for the money he was making.
And he still is. He can get his own shot whenever he wants and can score from anywhere on the court. I want LB back in the rotation. Take 3-5 minutes from Nash, 3-5 minutes from Hill, 2-3 from Frye and all of Clark’s and you’ve got a better rotation than we’ve had all year.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Give Frye a Break
He’s the 3rd best 3 point shooter on the team behind Nash and Dudley. He’s only 7th in FG%, but when you consider that over half his attempts are from behind the arc, that’s to be expected. He’s 4th in rebounding and 3rd in blocks, 3rd in steals.
Consider that his rebounding totals as a guy who spends half the game behind the arc and is asked to guard mobile 4s and 5s is similar to that when he was a post player getting similar minutes eariler in his career and it says a lot about his understanding of the Suns need for boards.
Not too shabby for a guy who for the first time in his career is being asked to play the perimeter in career high minutes.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Mike, you jest
He spends half his time on the arc on offense. Where are his defensive boards? He continually gets out hustled and out worked under the bucket. He is a part time player who brings little defensive energy. Rebounding is a lot about attitude. You might watch Frye when a team mate is shooting. Does he go for the rebound? Watch and see.
He averages...
5.2 rebounds a game, getting 4.3 on the defensive side in about 20 minutes of play…Sounds about right to me.Amundson gets 2.8 RPG on the defensive side and is only getting about 4-5 minutes a game less than Frye is now. Lopez is only getting 2.8 on the defensive side and is getting more time than Frye. If he were a true post player he would be getting about 7-8 RPG. What did you expect when we got Frye? Some guy who is going to out muscle people in the post and get double doubles on a nightly basis? He has never been that…He’s always been a finesse guy who had a range of about 15 feet…Now he has a range past three point…If anything he’s given us WAY more than we thought he ever would.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I like your thinking.
Maybe it is time for the coaching staff to sit down and explain some of the NBA facts of life to Leandro Barbosa. Fact #1. Play defense or sit. Fact #2. Pass the ball before you get stuck under the basket with 2 or 3 bigs hanging over you. Fact #3 Learn to go to the right once in a while. Fact #4. Get a lot tougher, fight through those screens. Quit being so ‘nice’. Get hungry.
As the team is now constructed, there is simply no place for Leandro. He will get Earl Clark minutes unless he improves defensively. Let him sit until he gets the message.
Defense is a state of mind. Leandro can do it and it will make hm a much better and more valuable player.
Our two best players don't play defense. What about them?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
yep thats what Kerr is dealing with
he can’t exactly change the culture of the whole team while Nash and Amare are on the payroll, and rightly doesn’t want to give them away for peanuts either. So he’s playing this shell game by giving Gentry a bunch of inexpensive hustle guys for the rotation to see if the net result will be positive. So far its been working, but obviously not at championship level.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
A welcome addition!
I think many of us have forgotten what LB brings to this team, at least offensively. He is a former 6th man of the year award winner, who often matches his points to his minutes.
I think we’ve all seen the trouble our second unit has had finding that “go-to guy” offensively at times; well welcome back LB!
Yeah, he isn’t a great defender, but we have many other players, especially in the second unit, who do very well in that department now. So I would like to see LB used as our primary slasher/scorer with the back-up unit, whenever he gets back to form.
I think we should start him back slowly; letting him get a feel for the game and getting back into playing shape. I think he should be good to go come time for the playoffs to start; which will be the perfect time to help us get to that next level in our play!
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