Scouting the San Antonio Spurs Big Three
Using my fancy new My Synergy tool, I did some quick scouting on the Spurs Big Three.
Let's get to it.
Manu's top three favorite plays are Pick and Roll (29%), Spot-up (20%) and Isolation (17%)
Pick and Roll
Defending Manu on the pick and roll comes down to two things. First, if at all possible you want to force him away from the pick as JRich does in this screen shot.
As we all know, Manu's a lefty (go lefties!) and so he sets up the screen so he can go at it and continue driving left. If the defender can get to the screen first and force him the other direction, his effectiveness drops considerably (.314 FG%).
Barring that, you always are better off going under the screen than chasing him over. His shooting drops from 42% to 34% in those cases.
Manu will only pass out of the pick and roll about 25% of the time as compared to about 42% for Nash. Over half of those will go to the roll man, which is always a high percentage play, so like most pick and roll situations, you want to force him to find a spot-up shooter for a lower percentage shot.
Spotting-up
Manu is an effective spot-up shooter, hitting about 41% of his attempts in which his feet are set, but when you get him to put the ball on the deck and then pull-up, he drops to the lower 30s in shooting.
Run him off his spots and make him drive but then close the lane and make him pull up. Good defensive principles almost anyone.
Isolation
In isolation, Manu obviously wants to drive and get to the rim and, of course, he's much more effective going left (47% FG) versus right (31% FG). In isolation defenders know this, so he is actually forced right more than he ends up going left.
Stick with that.
Tony's top three plays are Pick and Roll (40%), Transition (17%) and Isolation (14%)
Pick and Roll
Tony, like Manu, is much more inclined to attack off the pick and roll than pass (28% of the time). When he does pass he'll find the roll man over half the time, so again, the Suns want to force him to pass to a spot up shooter.
45% of the time that he keeps the ball, he'll get to the basket, where he finishes at a 54% rate. When teams make him pull up for a shot (54% of the time) his shooting drops to 35%.
In this screen shot, Johann Petro slids over and denies Tony the lane and forces a missed dribble pull-up.
What you don't want to do (as the Suns found out when Shaq was here) is sag off and give him enough space to get set for a mid-range jump shot. Always best to crowd Tony.
Transition
Tony is a one-man fast break as evidenced by the fact that 17% of his total plays come in transition. He converts over 60% of those, so to put it plainly, stop the ball and pinch him off before he can get into the lane.
Isolation
Tony doesn't isolate often (14% of the time) and when he does he's going to look to drive right, where he finishes 48%. If you can make him go left, his shooting percentage drop to 35%. The best option, of course, like Manu, is to get him to pull up for a jumper.
Parker's a very infrequent drive and kick guy so be ready to bring help if he does isolate.
Tim Duncan
Timmy's top plays are the post-up (42%) and rolling off the pick and roll (15%).
Post-up
Tim's overall post-up numbers are good. Shocking, isn't it? He hits at about a 51% clip. As we all know, he can turn either way and does so about 25% of the time for each shoulder and faces up for the other half of his attempts.
When he turns off his left shoulder, his best move is a hook shot and if he turns right, a jump shot.
Facing up he is much better driving baseline than middle where he shoots about 15% worse.
As you can see in this screen shot, Marcin Gortat forced him into a running hook across the middle which he missed.
Tim is a good passer out of the post so you have to watch for cutters. Looking at some clips of when the Suns last played the Spurs, the few times the Suns brought a guard over to help, the uncovered guy slashed the lane and Tim found him.
Overall, the Suns actually played Duncan straight up in over 80% of his post-ups in their three meetings this season. Even when he was scoring on Amare or Frye in the paint, the Suns seemed willing to live with that in order to keep Manu or the other three point shooters from getting good looks.
The times when the Suns did bring help, it was usually the second unit where Dudley would come help and on one excellent possession trapped Duncan with Frye and forced a travel. On another good rotation, Dragic came from the weak side to contest a baseline drive and forced a miss.
Whether Gentry will stick with that plan or bring more help on Timmy remains to be seen. Given his age and the high minutes he played, I would be inclined to force him to score 30+ points in isolation as opposed to giving open looks to the other guys and risk letting them get hot.
A great example is the Suns win over the Spurs at home in December. Tim went one one one with Amare four times and Channing four times and was either fouled or scored on 7 of those. But later in the fourth quarter against Amare, he missed a shot and then turned the ball over on his last two attempts. The Suns won (116-104) and Duncan had 34 points and 14 rebounds.
Pick and Roll Man
Tim will pop out for a shot about 40% of the time and roll about 55% of the time. He's obviously much more effective rolling, but the Spurs don't run that nearly as much as the Suns. Who does, right?
The Suns will want to be alert and come from the weak side to take away the roll, but it's not a bread and butter play for the Spurs.
Disclosure: Synergy Sports Tech has provided Bright Side of the Sun with a free My Synergy account.
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On another note
I see our 3pt game being much less of a factor in this series. With such a dominant inside presence, the spurs can stay on the perimeter guys much better and not worry as much about help…I haven’t looked it up but I’m betting their Op3pt% is quite good.
Consequently, Channing is gonna have to step up his inside game because he’s not going to be getting a high volume of quality looks ( and to his credit he did just that in the portland series ). Duds seems to be much more reliable with a hand in his face but again he’s gonna have to show a little restraint.
That being said, I’m not sure that this is necessarily a bad thing, since as we saw when we get too 3 happy things can dry up real quick. I forsee us going to the P&R alot more early ( which the spurs seem to struggle with at times, esp if they switch), as well as alot of midrange jumpers to loosen things up a bit. If that goes well, the slashers will have more room to work, and finally, pops will have no choice but to pack the paint, finally (hopefully) giving us some daylight at the 3.
Probably way too simplified for any real use, but meh…
Yeah when Dudley catches the ball and he's wide open
He tends to wait a little bit for his defender to chase at him a little before he fires. He still nails it so I don’t know if he just likes to do it to humiliate the defender or if he just likes to take his time. Either way, it’s efficient.
he wants the contact
for a 4-point play. :)
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
If he wants the 4 point play
he better be ready to maake some free throws. Free throws could have cost us that game.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
Sometimes I think it's easier for those players to make really tough contested shots vs critical free throws
All eyes on you when you’re at the free throw line. You realize the game’s riding on your shoulders. A lotta pressure vs shooting a contested 3.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
its all about scheme
Portland decided they would leave everyone open but Nash and Stoudemire and take their chances. The Suns buried ’em 4 of 6 times.
If SA goes the other way (guarding everyone straight up) then Nash/Amare go off. This would most closely resemble previous years. Amare averages something like 25/12 against SA and we’ve lost to them every time. Their straight-up though was Bowen on Nash, and Duncan on Amare.
But the Spurs no longer have Bruce Bowen to smother Nash physically. George Hill is a good defender, but he’s simply not tall enough to impede Nashs vision and not physical enough to knock Nash around. And this time, the Suns have other guys who can step in. JRich and Hill are excellent at creating offense when Nash passes out of trouble. And Dragic can play alongside Nash too.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Wingspans
While George Hill is listed as being only 6’2", his wingspan is reported to be 6’9". Also of interest is that Dejuan Blair is listed as 6"7" yet has a wingspan of 7’2". Both players do a fairly good job of taking advantage of their long arms. Dejuan is right there with Tim Duncan in points per minute, and is way ahead of him in rebounds per minute.
Excellent breakdown!
Always enjoy reading views from the other side! Only thing I’d point out is that with Tony Parker, it’s not speed that kills, it’s confidence. Even though Parker had a brilliant postseason in ‘07, and carried the team last year, this year he’s really bought into his “spark off the bench” role, and thrived in late game situations using his pull up jumper. Single handedly iced one of our games against Dallas with clutch shots.
The pick and roll, on the other hand, is definitely not a money play for SA, even with Timmy in the game. It’s no secret #21 is a step slower these days, and I’ve seen him get blocked rolling to the basket on more occasions this season than I care to count. It gets worse when Blair comes in. Even though he and Manu showed some promise at points in the season, DeJuan still struggles holding onto passes and finishing around the rim.
Should be another amazing series! No predictions from me this round—just want good hard, injury-free playoff basketball. Best of luck to whoever prevails. Go Spurs Go!
"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -Davy Crockett
"Give me an army of West Point graduates, and I'll win a battle. Give me a handful of Texas Aggies, and I'll win a war." -Gen. George S. Patton
+1 on the injury-free part
Suns fans, let’s make a pact. After getting SO tired of Portland fans whining about injuries, can we promise NOT to complain about Robin missing… or Nash hobbling? Lets just watch basketball and enjoy the series for what happens on the court.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
If Parker or Ginoble knees Nash
In the junk, I’ll complain about injuries
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
Won’t happen. I’ll be content, though, if Parker and Nash don’t put their heads together this series, and if Manu can keep his (substantial) broken nose out of trouble.
"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -Davy Crockett
"Give me an army of West Point graduates, and I'll win a battle. Give me a handful of Texas Aggies, and I'll win a war." -Gen. George S. Patton
Seth Pollack should be our next assistant headcoach.
I’m having a brain hemorrhage trying to comprehend all these things but seriously this would help us win.
We are the defensive-minded Phoenix Suns.
Seth, can you do this for Suns players?
Amare and Nash and others?
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
hoping to find the time this evening
for that…
This was about 3 hours “work”. I say “work” b/c I love it :) but my wife…not so much
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
He's probably got to do like I do...
Endure 3-5 hours of Lifetime Network in return….
It ain’t always easy being married…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
yep, or HGTV
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Yikes...I remember last year I almost went insane over a full season of "Project Runway"
Our Plasma TV doesn’t know how close it came to having it’s life extinguished…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
hey there's worse things than watching models go down the runway
at the end of each show. Much worse.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Seth, one more request
with this new tool can you compare the makeup of the Suns’ offense in 2007 with today’s offense? The team has been talking all year about not being a fast-break team anymore – that most of their offense is in the half-court. Historically, this has spelled doom in the playoffs as better defenses key on Nash, Amare and stopping the fast-break transition. But I don’t see that working any more.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Amare
I would be interested in a comparison between Amare of 05 (dunks, dunks, dunks, bad ft shooting, no defense) with the Amare of now (dunks, jumpshot, passing, free throw shooting, a little defense)
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
+1
Crashing the [message] boards from the heart of Spurs Nation, San Antonio, Texas. GO SUNS!
"gruntledpainter":http://www.twitter.com/gruntledpainter on Twitter
All Amar'e needs is a backdown, fadeaway jumpshot and we have ourselves another KG.
If Amar’e develops a 3 point shot, we have ourselves a KG/Rasheed hybrid with monster athleticism. It’s scary how much more he can improve on top of the incredible arsenal he has now.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
True, but it's more fun when posterizes a big man...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I'll settle for defense + rebounding
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
this series isn't a foregone conclusion for PtR.
Whichever team plays their game better will win the series. I wouldn’t be surprised if this series was just as gritty as the Portland series, except went 7 games.
Crashing the [message] boards from the heart of Spurs Nation, San Antonio, Texas. GO SUNS!
Portlan would have been 7
if Roy had played full strength. The other injuries didn’t matter.
For instance, when a player loses 75 games due to injury, and his replacement winds up playing better than he can (Camby-Oden), then the player-game lost argument becomes crap.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
yeah, agreed.
I think we can get out to an early lead against SA though.
Crashing the [message] boards from the heart of Spurs Nation, San Antonio, Texas. GO SUNS!
Take care of our home court early on is the key...
We can’t get away with dropping game one like we did agianst the Blazers…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Spurs Fan here....
Great analysis! You guys definitely back your arguments up instead of spewing BS like other blog sites do. I love how this is going to be a hard fought series by both teams. I see a few stupid fans on our site (PtR) saying spurs in 4…BWAHAH no way in hell. You guys are way to good to be swept. I say this series will go to 6 or 7 games. I am very anxious for Monday. i will be making my way here throughout the series to hear your guys’ POV of the series as it goes on.
Go Spurs Go!!
"Tim Duncan is my main bitch!" - Santa Claus
by Cello the great on May 1, 2010 11:23 AM MST reply actions
come on back any time
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
come on back any time
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I'm probably not so representative of this site...
…as I’m a more recent Suns convert (since Nash era II), but I’ve got a lot of admiration for the Spurs’ big 3 (setting aside Manu’s flopping). Now that The One Who Kneed Nash In the Groin is done, I think I could cheer for the Spurs if they beat the Suns (but happily they won’t! =P ).
there will certainly be a thread soon
but in the meantime maybe to discuss our defense strategy?
duncan – do we double same as LMA, second he touches the ball?
hill/parker – most probably by (grant) hill, when both in game then nash go on (george) hill… didn’t watch much from (george) hill, but what I saw from recaps, he usually scores when get ball after opposite team’s rotation… how is he playing p&r, can he post up?
manu – I believe jrich, and we could have a problem here… I love jrich but he is not that good of a defender to stop manu…
I could see possible problem with jefferson, pop could give him ball to post up when nash will be guarding him, and he can post pretty well… however our rotations were very good vs blazers, and it would be a key in this series, plus rebounding of course…
we certainly have much better p&r defense, they were killing us with shaq in the lineup while amare is much better in that segment… and I love our underdog status…
this would be gentry’s master degree, if he outcoach pop, uh, what a feeling that would be…
We will surely talk more about this
but what I envision is that JRich will start on R Jeff and Hill on Manu and Nash on George/Tony.
I think Manu is the guy I am most afraid of and Grant’s a good match there. Putting Grant on Tony is a bit much
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
I agree, manu is the one to worry about
nash on hill is not so much problematic, but nash on parker would be tough, as usual…
The only silver lining to this is that we have Dragic now
If San Antonio plays a lot of Parker & Hill,, we need to counter with a lot of Nash & Dragic…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I was thinking that too
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Defending Tony requires rim protection
nash can cover the perimeter, as long as he’s got cover when Tony drives to the hoop. The Suns proved against Bayless and Miller they can cover the rim.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I'm sure Bayless will have that fact seared in his conscious for years...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I think he has now learned
to respect his elders!!
great post...
Call me a homer, but I think the Suns can do it.. have favorable matchups at a lot of postiions and I think we re hungry and we can find a way t o get it done…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Wow.. Great analysis! I love this type of stuff..
Thanks Seth, keep it up. And thanks to Synergy too for giving you the free account.
One matchup I do like for us is Jrich on offense. He can post up any of the Spurs guards with ease.
This could help set up our shooters especially when frye is in the game. If he could find slashing hill or amare that would be great as well. Oh! And maybe a few “dirty” elbows while posting up Nosebleed. And hope he doesn’t flop
by Suns Fan For Life on May 1, 2010 6:18 PM MST reply actions

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