The Suns Unquantifiable
It is entirely right for the Lakers, the winners of some ungodly number of titles, and their fans, viewers of an endless stream of victories by godlike figures dancing in ever pleasing pixelated shapes or projected at them at 30 frames per second, to stare down the barrels of their season's demise with all the incredulity of John Wayne facing a blade of grass.
That blinding confidence in so many cases will be proven justified. What should the defending champs have to fear from the dysfunctional and improbable Phoenix Suns?
All year, the drama in Hollywood has always been about the Lakers, the opposing teams merely the foil, the backdrop to the longest running soap opera in tinsel-town, the Lakers. Given that premise, echoed by the peanut gallery surrounding the acquisition of Ron Artest, the only thing that could destroy the Lakers were the Lakers. Internecine battles between coach and players, between the volatility of Artest and the narcissism of Bryant and the rivalry of heir and heiress in seizing control of the Lakers empire are the only forces that could tear the team's title hopes asunder. Like the three titles won with Shaq and Kobe, Cain and Abel, only the violence from within could destroy what the NBA world outside can not.
But these internal forces have not destroyed the Lakers. So what now, you remaining teams in the NBA?
ALL HOPE IS LOST!
However, as I argue here, the greatest reason a rational Lakers fan has to fear is not just another cascade of Nash-Stoudemire PNRs which they have seen six straight years, but rather that no one anymore knows what the Suns are capable of. That unquantifiable state of the Suns means that no one knows what will happen next week. And as a Lakers fan, that should be scary, even if you have been so desensitized to fear by 25-30 Kobe shots of anesthesia per game. Comfortably numb or not, your state of mind has no bearing on the outcome.
As you can see, the title of this post is not about the Lakers. It is about the uncharted territory of the very near future that we find ourselves soaked in. That unfamiliarity with next week is not because of Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant or any myriad of lesser characters residing on the Pacific shore. Our unfamiliarity with next week is because what we have seen last week that no one has seen before.
The Suns Unquantifiable
I come to this conclusion in several ways. Let me count the ways.
I invite you to add your supporting evidence, additional ways or counterevidence in the comments below.
5. No one saw last week coming.
As a regular, devoted viewer of the NBA, alongside a rich assortment of other insanely devout players, viewers and number-crunchers of the game, the Suns overwhelming domination of the San Antonio Spurs was jarring.
Although the Suns had homecourt and the 3rd vs 7th seed, it was a monumental upset.
That was not what we expected coming into this series as we thought from past experiences we could do some things to control this series as they just outplayed us.. - Tim Duncan
People, as a general rule, are very smart. Financial prediction markets are based on the idea that raw data must be analyzed to come to a conclusion, that much evidence is soft and must be interpreted and that opinions built on all types of evidence lend to better forecasts. People knew the Suns had homecourt, knew that some raw evidence favored the Suns, but still chose the Spurs 4-2 or better. The Suns then winning 4-0 is disturbing evidence that, despite watching so many games, pouring over the stats, talking about the evidence, no one knew what the Suns can or would do.
On if he was surprised by the sweep -
If you would have asked me that ten days ago, I would have said yes.
Yeah, obviously we didn’t expect to be swept. Every game that we played we thought we were in it as they just found ways to get it done and take it away during the last few minutes of the game. - Tim Duncan
One analyst covered his ass best when he said, "I predicted all the first round and other second round series correctly, so I was bound to miss one. This was it." Such a statistical excuse really understates the size of such a gross error.
How bad was the error? Only 2 or 10 ESPN analysts thought the Suns would eeek by with homecourt. PHX in 7 is basically saying the two teams were evenly matched but homecourt would give the Suns the edge. PHX in 7, would have been SAS in 7 had the Spurs won a few more games in the regular season. Two more analysts thought the series would be close but that the Spurs would triumph. An overwhelming 6 of 10 analysts thought the Spurs would win pretty damn easy.
TrueHoop's StatGeek SmackDown context did better, but only because they knew they didn't know. For everyone, the issue came down to HomeCourt advantage.
"The history between these two teams makes for a fun storyline entering the series, but should the Spurs' past playoff success tell us anything about the outcome? I suspect not," says Pelton. "This series is close enough that I would probably be inclined to pick whichever team had homecourt advantage."
"Homecourt advantage is the issue," says Berri.
As I quote in my academic work, I quote for you here,
There are two kinds of forecasters, those who don't know and those who don't know they don't know. - John Kenneth Galbraith
As it was with the PHX-SAS series, so it will be with the PHX-LAL series.
4. Your instrument panel is broken, the statgeeks are flying blind.
It's been about 14 years since I've lived in Phoenix. A lot of those years were spent overseas. I don't have a TV. Before becoming a formally trained econometrician, I was an engineer with a bachelors in physics. I understand data. I understand data collection and analysis.
Before the advent of NBA broadband league pass and the multiple pirate streams of games, a fan without a TV or not in the broadcast area was given a small token, the boxscore. I used to poor over those boxscores a lot. I spent almost as much time looking at boxscores as it the games would take. When Yahoo! came up with the gamechannel, like watching the matrix in code, I would watch each play unfold in text with 20 second updates. It was more work to imagine each PNR, each play, drawn from the memories of games that I had actually seen, but it was just as enjoyable as the game itself. The 7SOL teams had very distinctive boxscore characteristics. You knew the good games from the bad ones quite easily.
I don't get much into the numbers anymore, not because I don't believe in them, but more because I just don't have the time for it anymore.
Even so, the Suns-Spurs series flabbergasted statgeeks and the Spurs alike. There was no success profile. The Suns won this way, the Suns won that way, the Suns won every way.
It’s really hard not only because of the fact that we are down 3-0 it’s the way that they are beating us. We couldn’t stop them and anything we tried it was a bucket for them. It was demoralizing. We are going to have to play the perfect game. In the first game we fouled too much and they were too much in transition, it was our fault. In game two, it wasn’t running but offensive rebounds. Today, we didn’t foul and Amar’e only had 7 points and they killed us anyway. That’s the tough part to shallow. We have to play 48 minutes at a great intensity without mistakes. - Game 3, Manu Ginobili
...
They beat us in a game when Amar’e scored, when Nash would score, when Nash didn’t score, when they had less than 10 points in transition, when we didn’t turn the ball over. - Game 4, Manu Ginobili
3. These Suns are not a streaky, spoiler team
When I became a Suns fan, the high bar was, as it is still today, to make some noise in the playoffs, to send a team home or two, to upset a perennial favorite, to cause a star to retire, to be a spoiler team.
Sometimes, the notion was flaunted, that streakiness, particularly in the post-season could take the Suns all the way to a title. While that might work in the NCAA, where single-elimination favors the indomitable and the outrageously hot and lucky, the structure of the NBA playoffs does not work like that. In fact, of all professional sports, an upset in the NBA is the most difficult to achieve. On great occasion, the 8th seed Nuggets or Warriors might knock off the 1st seed Sonics or Mavs, but in the next round these teams would go home without much fight.
Until Gentry took over the Suns, the Suns were rightly considered a streaky team. The Suns had one success-option, shootingthe lights out, and when their shots would not fall, they would not win. With Defense, Depth and Draft Picks, eschewed by D'Antoni, the Suns have partially delinked their shooting from winning. Shooting will almost always be a streaky thing, governed by the probabilistic laws of chaos theory and statistical mechanics (air flow, random uncalled fouls, etc), but how this shooting maps into wins is no longer the sole factor to consider in the outcome of Suns games.
We did several different things and it always seemed to end with them making a shot. - Tim Duncan
Where does robust wins and consistency come from? Having the third best offense in NBA history is certainly a factor, but in the Spurs series it was Defense and Depth.
Defense is particularly about effort and is something that can work when your shooting does not. Depth partially resolves game rotations, injuries, matchup problems and cold shooting.
The Suns are not "hot". They shot far less well than the Spurs. And they won. And they won lots of different ways.
They always found somebody to step up. In Game Three it was Goran and Barbosa and today it was Amar’e, Jason Richardson, Dudley’s big shot, every game they had somebody different. You have to have depth and players stepping up to win. - Manu Ginobili
2. The analysts concede they have no idea what will happen.
(from Ceek, thx dood).
If you look at the pictures, it looks like overwhelming support for the Lakers (7-3).
LA media bias? Maybe. But look closer.
See all of those LAL in 7's? There's 5 of them. What do those mean to you?
Think about it if you were the analyst. Say the two teams are the Marcos De Niza Padres and the Corona del Sol Aztecs. What the fuck do you know about those two teams?? Perhaps you know, but perhaps you don't. You do know one team has the better record and has homecourt for Game 7. Teams are more likely to win on homecourt, but sometimes in a game 7 the other team gets hot and lucky. So, without knowing anything, its LAL in 7.
LAL in 7 is saying the Lakers have homecourt and, therefore, should squeak by. A LAL in 7 is the most gutless prediction a coward could make, and is the clearest admission of ignorance possible. It's also saying the Suns have a HUGE chance at an upset. Mainly because they have no idea who this team is for the Suns and what the fuck they are capable of.
So really the predictions are not 7-3.
LAL - 2, Abbott, Adande
PHX - 2, Hollinger, Stein
Undecided - 6
6 undecided, but with 5 saying homecourt and history should matter given they have no idea what the fuck will happen.
The TrueHoop StatGeek SmackDown numbers are not yet out, but I can't wait to see how they process the sweeps by both the Lakers and the Suns in coming to their conclusions.
1. Killer Instinct
The Suns appear to have it. For the first time in Suns history. OMFG.
I watched that 1993 team. It had a more thrilling campaign than what we've seen thus far here. Close games, come backs from 2-0 in a 5-game series (with the Lakers no less). Even the old D'Antoni teams were far more exciting. Triple overtimes, wild west shoot-outs, hail mary shots heard round the world, last minute come-back-and-win-from-10-down victories.
Call me a bad fan, I miss those games, I'm willing to put up with defeat for the chance of dramatic upset. The old Suns would let teams back into games and series.
But not these Suns. These Suns close out quarters well. They win they're games early. They don't play with their food. Teams make a run to get back in the game, but are squelched just as they expend all their energy to catch up. The games just aren't close.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Suns historians, but there has not been a Suns team with greater killer instinct.
The Suns Unquantifiable
Therefore, for all these reasons, and not for specific matchups or statistical historical reasons, this series will be uncharted territory. Far more unknown than even the PHX-LAL games of recent memory. Those five reasons should cause unease to the average Laker fan, although of course we know it will not.
Either team can win, the odds favor the Lakers not by a landslide but by a small and alarmingly inconsequential homecourt and ever fading history, in the absence of anything more quantifiable on which to base the outcome of the series upon.
Then what explains the rampant and overconfident proclamations of Lakers fans? Is it idle homerism, blind faith in yesteryear or is it that if the Lakers lose, they have 15 DVDs they can pop in, hit play, relive those old successes as if this year never happened?
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Unquantifiable's is just a fancy word for intangibles
Deron Williams once made the mistake of thinking AK47 had intangibles and the master of intangibles himself, the mayor of intangible city, Derek Fisher went off for 20 points to help the lakers win game 3.
Invoke intangibles at your own peril.
You have been warned!
Stu Lantz – For not being Hot Rod Hundley. Grade: A Motherfucking Superplus +.
nope sorry, that's not the take-away I intend to give you.
Intangibles are the soft information analysts and fans can assess. Intangibles are baked into fan and analyst opinions.
In some cases, you’re right – Killer instinct is not only an intangible, it’s also likely stat-geek quantifiable.
I’m not saying the Suns have great intangibles, although that appears true, but more that such qualities appears new enough that no one really has a good read on where the Suns are.
I’m more interested in the Suns development as a “Team for All Seasons”, or one that can beat you in multiple ways.
I’m arguing more for the irrelevance of history. I’m arguing, that as far as I can read on the interwebz, no one has a good handle on this series, nor is there much consensus on the outcome (aside from homers of course).
It’s a point that I think is of interest.
And I agree, it is a good warning: “Invoke intangibles at your own peril.”
The Suns were actually favorites last round
I know ESPN had 8/10 people pick the Spurs, but you should always look to the bookies for the people who put their money where their mouth is rather than know-nothing sportscasters. Suns were -145, Spurs were +115.
Of course, nobody expected a sweep. That was probably a 20-1 longshot, so people clearly underestimated the Suns and I’ll agree with you there.
Still, saying “LAL in 7 is the most gutless prediction a coward could make, and is the clearest admission of ignorance possible” is ludicrous. Home court advantage/bias is a very real thing. OKC was one rebound away from making that a homer series, and who knows what would have happened if Utah got the friendly roll to win game 3. As long as the favorite’s advantage is not overwhelming, home team in 7 is the most likely outcome, with the next two most likely outcomes being home team in 5 and road team in 6.
For example, if you say the Lakers have a 65% of winning the home games and 40% chance of losing road games (i.e. PHX has a 60% chance at home), then the most likely outcomes are LAL in 7 (21%), LAL in 5 (18%), and PHX in 6 (17%). All other possibilities cover the remaining 44%.
Anyway, the fun part of sports is that it’ll come down to execution by the teams, and opinion is just there for entertainment and bragging rights.
Good points all.
The betting market is definitely a wider cross-section of opinion with money on the table, but even that has some difficultly.
LAL in 7 is the most likely outcome, sure, and homecourt is a huge advantage, but it is also saying the teams are quite evenly matched, or hard to assess.
Can I get an estimate of dispersion in opinion? I’d like to know a range of closely related values. My contention is that, aside from your calculation, this series has higher probabilities on the extremes than the average series.
Got any numbers on that? TY
OK, so here's the vegas money lines - heavily in LA's favor:
ODDS TO WIN THE 2009-10 NBA FINALS
Team Open Current
Los Angeles Lakers 19/10 7/5
Orlando Magic 9/2 8/5
Boston Celtics 18/1 6/1
Cleveland Cavaliers 8/5 6/1
Phoenix Suns 15/1 6/1
http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/998536
How About those Suns? – May 11, 2010 – By Bodog
By Richard Gardner | Sportsbook Manager
But can Phoenix win it all? More and more of our bettors seem to think they can, although there remain plenty of doubters. The Suns are getting 5/1 odds to win the NBA championship and have garnered more and more action since the playoffs started. Not bad for a team that began the season at 60/1.
http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/999303
No. 1 L.A. Lakers vs. No. 3 Phoenix Suns
Series Price: L.A. Lakers -340, Phoenix +280
Suns-Lakers Outlook – May 13, 2010 – By Kevin Rogers – VegasInsider.com
Series Outlook: The Lakers have been tested against better competition in the playoffs than the Suns have. Los Angeles took on an underrated Oklahoma City squad and a tough Utah club, while Phoenix battled a Portland team that had its best player banged up and ran out an old San Antonio club. The Suns will definitely give the Lakers a run for their money, but Los Angeles will close this series out in six games and advance to the Finals for a third straight season.
So the money line is $340 on LAL gets you $100 and $100 on PHX gets you $280.
The money is on LAL, but the problem I have with sports betting is how wildly inefficient it is, and driven by wealth-weighted emotion.
That last bit of analysis by Kevin Rogers is so crazy, that I have to believe the analysis is actually a conclusion drawn from the bets, rather than the bets based on that blurb.
How does he figure that LA had better playoff competition?
OKC had it’s first go around in the playofss and was an eighth seed, while Utah was missing half it’s roster…
True we played a banged up Portland team, but San Antonio was considered the hottest playoff team going into the season, and we swept them,…I would just love to have this so-called “expert” eat his words
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I guess the betting line is the best place to look for the average spread of opinion. The place that takes the least profit is Pinnacle Sports:
http://www.pinnaclesports.com/ContestCategory/NBA+Series+Prices/Lines.aspx
If you normalize everything, the opinion on the probabilities for each outcome is as follows:
Phoenix Suns Win (25%):
4-0 2.2%
4-1 3.3%
4-2 11.4%
4-3 8.1%
Los Angeles Lakers Win (75%):
4-0 10.8%
4-1 22.4%
4-2 16.6%
4-3 25.1%
So ...
I’ve got someone offering me 2-1 odds on the Suns. I’d bet even money that you’d take that bet.
See, the problem is that he is the same guy that gave me 2-1 that the Suns wouldn’t get to 55 wins.
I don’t know if I can stand 2 defeats in one season — even if I’d come out ahead with an infinite number of repetitions.
Use some fancy econo-stat-math and show me why I should make the bet (again).
Mmmmm ... Guinness
you're risk averse.
Don’t worry, it’s so common a condition that some people believe everyone is.
Sad thing is, you could cover this bet easily with an opposing bet to someone else probably with better terms, pick up the arbitrage and still be unhappy, because of the pride. =D
Again, no help -- only theory
I’ve got to give someone 3-1 odds on Clevaland over the Celtics?
I am risk averse, but I’ll probably make the bet because I’m a Suns fan.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
haha I'm not a licensed therapist.
You have to bet against your fanship always.
BTW, Kobe’s therapist… ok that’s just juvenile.
I say ask for better odds
At the bookies, Suns are +250 and the Lakers are -350. So to win $100, he’s only risking $200 with you but everyone else is asking him to risk $350. Basically he’s trying to rip you off; in fact, he could bet on the Lakers with you and the Suns somewhere else and guarantee himself a profit.
Ask for 3-1 odds (that’s better than Vegas will give him), and if he accepts go for it!
BTW, you got ripped off in taking that earlier bet, unless that bet was made just after the 14-3 start. Most people didn’t even predict the Suns making the playoffs at the beginning of the season, and were 40-1 to win the West. You should have got between 5-1 and 10-1 odds for a 55-win season.
If I had the foresight you did, I would have put $100 down on the Suns to win the west at 40-1, then bet $100 on the blazers (375) in case the unthinkable happened (to win $375-$100=$275), bet $400 on the Spurs (115 to win $460-$100-$100=$260 if the Suns lost), and now $3000 on the Lakers (-350). If the Lakers win, I’d net $857-$100-$100-$400=$257, and if the Suns win I’d get $4000-$100-$400-$3000=$500. =D
Unfortunately, my optimism for the Suns came a bit too late.
Good stuff as usual Zona'...
Lot of writing though…Dude, your wrist ain’t gonna be right for game one…Lay low for a while..
Personally, I think this Lakers team has played like a soulless machine and got away wioth it against an injured an size deficient Jazz team…The reckoning starts next Monday…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I get nervous when you agree with me...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Hate to burst your bubble Sungod
but it has been my observation that you two agree more often than not. And, yes, that would make me nervous too. If I was prone to nerves. But I was raised on basketball in Houston so our nerve endings were burned out somewhere back in the dark ages when Phi Slamma Jamma still ran and Ralph Sampson played in the NBA.
You have just crushed my soul by mentioning Ralph Sampson...
My angst of his waste of talent consumes my every waking moment…
Thank you.
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I should have known
you would have a soft spot for Ralph. (Of course that could be sarcasm too) Nothing about Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming or Steve Francis could truly break the heart of someone who loved and watched Ralph. I used his volley to the basket to beat LA as my wallpaper for years.
Me sarcastic..? Perish the thought...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
great job, Zona
you really hit the nail on the head. We don’t know what will happen. We just can’t wait till it does.
Go Suns!
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Exactly what I was thinking
That’s why they play the games – so that when there’s a week in between games, we can argue in vain about who is right and wrong!
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 12, 2010 11:28 PM MST up reply actions
if it's normally a vain discussion, it's especially a vain one here.
but should be fun all the same – thx dking!
Really, we should argue after the series is done
But that is not as fun for the loser.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
haha so right
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
Great read
I rec’d it before I even got down here to comment. Great post. And I truly agree, this Suns team has something the ones of the past never had. I can’t have much credibility because I’ve only been watching them and obsessing since 2000, but somethings changed. They almost seem like a great team, and I say that with as little arrogance and opinion possible. These guys really have something. Thanks for the read, it’s inspired me.
The Suns have great team chemisty and healthy players!!!
Those are both huge. I hope they win the WCFs. I am from Chicago but moved to Portland and started following basketball/Blazers a few years ago.
Only watched MJ in the playoffs prior to this!
I am rooting for the Suns. Great team. Great players. Great GM…Steve (formerly of the Chicago Bulls) and very importantly…Aaron Nelson.
You guys are freaking lucky to have that fitness team!!!
Would love to see Hill and Nash win. They have worked hard for many years and like both of them as people as well as how they play on the court.
Also love Frye of course. Don’t really know much about the other players but from what I’ve seen, they are playing their butts off and deserve to win.
It would be especially nice to see them beat the reigning champions…not so much that I have anything against the Lakers as a team…their fans….annoying and bandwagonish IMO!!
Great writeup Zona.
Unquantifiable is a great word to describe this Suns team. The numbers don’t really tell us anything anymore. For the SAS- PHX series, Game 3 had the Spurs beating the Suns on basically every important statistic but yet the Suns pulled out a win. The Suns had below average shooting percentages for most of the series but still scraped out wins. All I’m looking for is the Suns defeating the Lakers in this best of 7 but we don’t know what could happen or how. All I can do is hope they win.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
absolutely this series likely won't be about the numbers
it’ll be about the effort, taking what’s given, and as Seth is rightly pointing out, size versus depth.
loved this post
Excellent article! Can’t wait for this series to start.
by underxthebridge on May 12, 2010 10:05 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Is the Suns’ desire to win stronger than both the Lakers’ size advantage and their apparent desire for revenge? I’m not sure, honestly. I just am quite skeptical of the Lakers’ desire for revenge, because it was mentioned only recently, four years after the last time the Suns shoved the Lakers back under their rock (2006). Don’t kid me—the Lakers probably care much more about the Celtics than the Suns, if they give a damn about beating anyone.
by 8472species on May 12, 2010 10:06 PM MST reply actions
I think Kobe cares more about facing LeBron and Shaq in the Finals.
Assuming both teams get that far, Kobe probably wants to show them up to prove he’s still the best player in the league and that he managed to get 5 before Shaq could. That’s just my theory though.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
I think he cares more about winning.
But as the main guy, that’s his only caveat to pure winning.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 12, 2010 11:30 PM MST up reply actions
nothing wrong with a strong sense of self-determination
but how many great bands have broken up over sorry shit like that, never to return until they are broke and too far past their prime.
I mean, really, why couldn’t Dennis DeYoung and Styx just work their shit out? =(
you made my day with your previous comment
and now you’ve ruined it with this one.
by Ceek on May 13, 2010 6:37 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
what can you do?
I mean, you hand your rock band over to a guy that plays a keyboard??
That’s just asking for trouble. * *
Journey
They just found a sound-alike Filipino singer to replace Steve Perry.
In this analogy, Shaq is Steve Perry.
The Spaniard Gasol is the Filipino singer.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
well now I'm REALLY excited about the series
cuz I’ve heard that Filipino version of Steve Perry and he sucks. He’s a good singer, and sounds a lot like Perry, but that makes him even worse by comparison.
Thanks Gil!
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
Well Pau Gasol isn't Shaq
But I don’t think that guy sucks either
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
haha yeah I know
its a preference thing. I really liked Perry’s voice in those classic songs. The new guy is just close enough to hate him. I liken the new Journey guy more to Kwame Brown than Pau Gasol.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
Don't stop believin'...
Hold on to that feeee eee ling
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
even the Glee version
is better than the “new” Steve Perry
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
Cold blooded!
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
"Impossible is nothing"
Yeah, it was “impossible” that we make the playoffs, and if we did it would be as a low seed who’d get booted in the first round. It was “impossible” for us to beat the Spurs. Sweep the Spurs? Pssh, you’re dreaming. The history of sports, and of the world, is punctuated by “impossible” things that ended up happening. The “nice little team that always fails in the clutch” Suns beating the “mighty, battle-tested team that has more rings than my bathtub” Lakers? That’s impossible!
No X’s and O’s for me right now. There is time for that as we get closer to the games. This is all I got for you.
We can push off on the melodramatic "impossible" talk
How about we agree on “improbable and rather unexpected”?
Also the “team of destiny” talk. How can a “team of destiny” retain its underdog advantage?
by 8472species on May 12, 2010 11:21 PM MST up reply actions
Well said
I was a fan of the only 6th seed to win an NBA championship. And that was less improbable than the one they won the year before that. I remember telling a friend from Phoenix at the time who was hysterically quoting box scores to me.
This team does not win box scores, it wins playoff games.
’
I have had a sense of deja vu watching the Suns this playoff season.
I definitely like unquantifiable as the term and it is much more substantial and relevant than intangible.
I know the "Impossible" stuff is a little corny
But I’m going with the flow on this team right now, and loving every minute of it.
by East Bay Ray on May 12, 2010 11:29 PM MST up reply actions
I went to Corona del Sol.
Those high school name-drops stood out :)
(But in your hypothetical set up, we all know Corona del Sol would have won)
by iwasneveryoung on May 13, 2010 2:20 AM MST up reply actions
A McClintock Charger here!
Since we r shooting out Tempe high schools!
by Aztiramtempe on May 13, 2010 8:03 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Camelback Spartans represent...
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
hahaha
I was more down to earth than most but i understand were that hatred comes from
No day but today
Oh god, I know that was a nightmare. I actually transferred from Chapparal to Corona to play soccer with some kids from my sereno team, and i remember the parking lot… Bemmer,Benz,Acura, Denalis, range rovers…I was like where am i?
No day but today
(but wasn’t one of the ones with one of those cars)
by iwasneveryoung on May 13, 2010 2:23 AM MST up reply actions
Suns play team ball and win
I love your article…
I ’d like to add that there is another intangible. The super-star syndrome. Kobe is “da man” the rest are relegated to “role players”. Even with Nash and his 2 MVPs we know he is the consummate team player. And its infectious…everybody working for the best “open” shot.
Kobe on the other hand thinks any shot he takes is the best shot. I say Suns in 6! No statistics here, just a feeling: this year the show boats go down and we get a great team ball final.
This is actually really important, like you say.
In the Spurs series, the starters we slow and got behind early.
The way to tap into Kobe the chucker is to jump on the Lakers early and get them behind.
Can the starters but the Lakers far enough behind that they turn on themselves? They didn’t do it in the Spurs series.
Pau Freaks Me Out
Great article, Zona. Unquantifiables indeed. But I’m losing sleep over Gasol. What the hell are we going to do with him? If his passing game is on, I fear him. Can we front him, get the perimeter guys up all over the Lakers’ wings, and try to deny the low post pass that way? I haven’t seen our Suns do it very much this season. But if Pau catches the ball low, he kicks ass, even with Robin back in the game. Thoughts? Pau covers so many of the Lakers’ unquantifiables. Even if he does seem kind of aloof all the time.
Frye (of Victoria, Canada) - Steve Nash's hometown folks admire his skills, his leadership and his unabashed intelligence.
by Frye (of Victoria, Canada) on May 13, 2010 12:36 AM MST reply actions
I'm going to have to defer this rather technical question to the experts who can ask the players in practice.
I’m also looking forward to the answer on this one.
PAU
The best thing to do with Pau is try to get in his head and be very physical and very pesky with him. If you guys have watched any Nugs Laker games or Laker Celtics, the duos of NeNe and Kenyon and Birdman give the Lakers front line fits. Also in the 2008 Finals you saw how the looks the C’s threw at him with Perkins and KG really kept him from being effective. A little shit talk, a copule bumps. let him know you’re there and let him know he isn’t going to get any easy buckets.
No day but today
True
Even Scola pestered him to death last year by just always being there and not being intimidated by him.
Maybe
but only if he plays bully ball. I mean Amar’e can disappear on D. Can’t do that or Pau will eat it up. Really, a persistent, always there, always in the play guy like Scola has a great chance even though he is not as talented. Lou could give him fits.
yea I'd like to see Lou get some game time back. we'll see.
by ZonaFlash on May 13, 2010 1:32 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I trust Alvin gentry will adjust as needed during the series...
Sweet Lou should get his minutes…otherwise we should fire Gentry and bring back Terry Porter…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Amare
I mean thats up to him, My theory in the NBA is that nobody can really shut anyone down, with the way the game is called, its hard from stopping anyone. Hand checking, 3 secs, certain ways you can guard in the post..etc But making it tough for someone is all about effort and playing it smart.
And sure there is not clear evidence that amare can do this effectively but i think with a front line effort of throwing different looks at him and letting him know there is a presence of a body there constantly fighting for position, fronting him and not making is EASY is going to be the difference
No day but today
Yeah
multiple bodies. Fresh bodies every 10 minutes or so might work. Those pesky energetic bench guys with 5 fouls a piece.
Trapping
There is alot of ways to go about this but its alot of trial and error, which in some instances can kill you..
Seth has talked about how the lakers like to overload the strong side to get isolations at the elbow or in the low post. The lakers dont like bringing guys to that side because then whoever is guarding that other man can slide over and try to trap that iso.
So im curious to see how effective Dudley, Grant, or Jrich can be at cheating over and leaving there man( probably ron) to go trap Kobe or Pau at the elbow and low box position
No day but today
Sometimes
leaving Ron Ron is the absolute best strategy. Dare him to shoot. But about once maybe twice in 7 game series that will hurt you. You just have to know when that is.
I mean
just imagine Ron Artest turning down a double dog dare you to shoot that three and I don’t even respect to you enough to watch and see if you can bet.
Right, you can’t imagine it. Because it is so remote it is beyond even your excellent quantum analysis :)
The Enforcer!
I hear he’ll be back in the paint for this series. :-)
It must be that time of day, the time to focus on sports.
Not buying it
We’ll have to play near-perfect ball to advance. This LA team is the best collection of talent they’ve had in some time and they can raise their game to a higher level especially when they face quality opponents. Both teams are peaking which promises a high-quality series for NBA fans. In the end though, I believe it will come down who executes the best “D” during the critical moments of the game and I’d have to give that edge to LA.
Not buying what?
All I’ve said here is that this series is unusually hard to predict and that is largely related to unknown factors on the Suns side of things.
sold!
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
The Lakers had a more fluid offense last season when they had Ariza.
I still don’t think Artest fits the Lakers well.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
Lakers talent...
I think the Lakers have the best collection of talent since their team that played Detroit in the Finals.
{( ` ;
by Arizona Bill on May 13, 2010 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
The gutless coward notion
That predicting LAL in 7 is the most gutless prediction a coward can make. I understand your point but that would be the bet I would place. This one should be that close in my opinion.
that's the option to minimize error.
However, that’s not the right betting option of course, even if it is the most likely outcome. it depends on the how other people are betting too.
My Favorite Quotations from this Site Ever
A LAL in 7 is the most gutless prediction a coward could make, and is the clearest admission of ignorance possible.
by TuckersPreseasonHype on May 13, 2010 4:11 AM MST reply actions
Good Post
People can’t predict these playoffs because the refs are actually very wary on how they are perceived this year. I don’t see as much bullshit as I did in the past. Thats why your seeing the sweeps this year as much as you are. Before, Charlotte would have for JORDAN, would have stolen a game or two before being eliminated. Finally teams on “paper” that are way better are posing their will on lesser teams. On paper there is no way a deep Suns team can lose against that Spurs team likewise Orlando to the Hawks, or even L.A to the Jazz. NBA don’t want sweeps but with all the pressure in the world to have an unscrutinized playoffs this year I think your finally seeing REAL basketball being played. Likewise tonight with the Celtics….The Celtics are a better team and should beat the Cavs who in the regular season will get the calls, but no bail outs this time around. If they stretch it to a 7th game it still doesn’t mean anything only that the Cavs finally play to their potential. I haven’t seen blowouts this playoff time around since the Jordan era. With this all being said the Suns have the deepest team and if your calling a straight up game the Suns bench is better then the Lakers bench, Nash is better then Fisher, Stat and Gasol a wash, Hill and Odom is a wash, Kobe is better then J-Rich, Bynum over Collins, Artest over Dragic…..But thats where the Lakers advantages stop. You have Barbosa, Frye, Dudley and probably Lopez coming off the bench for the Suns….I’m seeing 40 points a game right there period and thats where the problem starts for the Lakers, not counting Dragic or the Suns starting 5. The Suns are getting about 105-110 points a game…..I see the Suns winning in 6 games.
The first 2x5 NBA team??
It isn’t just the depth/bench of the Suns, it is they can throw 2 completely different 5 man rotations; one good at 1/2 court and the PNR (the “Nash 5”), the other playing fast-and-loose up tempo (the “Dragic 5”). That is why they were able to win so many different ways against the Spurs. They can bring 2 different looks; and as the game progresses give extra time to the one that is hot. I don’t recall any other NBA team able to do this. This is doubly important to keep Nash/Hill/Richardson fresh, especially for defense where being rested is the key (especially in Q4), and finish the last minutes with the best 5 out of the 10. To see this at its best, watch the start of Q4 in game 3 where the D5 was kept on the floor because they were hot, and SA had to bring in the first team. At the end of the game, SA was showing its tiredness. I think this carried over to game 4. The Lakers are a bit younger and should not tire as much (the long wait is better for the Lakers in this case);. My forecast is home court holds on games 1-4, with the Suns dual teams making the difference for games 5 and 6 as tiredness sets in; especially for Kobe who won’t be able to hold up for >40 minutes a game as the series progresses.
by Suns fan since '68 on May 13, 2010 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
Great post.
As big a fan as I am, I had never thought of the 2X5 aspect of this team. It’s like having last year’s Houston team (but bigger with better shooters) along with the first team.
That doesn’t suck.
2x5+1
although we’ve been playing a 10-man rotation, we’ve been playing 11 deep.
Imagine. 11 deep on a Suns team??
Mike D 'Antoni would have gotten us to that point if we had given him a chance...
I get a blissful feeling thinking of Marcus Banks getting 25 minutes a game…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Absolutely not!
He was fighting Defense, Depth and Draft Picks, and still is.
He brought the offense but then he had to go. He chose to go, to abandon the disaster, the frankenstein he made, he left our team for dead, because he was too stubborn to spend any time on the three D’s that are helping us this series.
Oh, was that sarcasm… oh sry man, I get heated about this topic! =D
I'ts okay, started to think you had gone straight....
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Funniest post that I have read in a long time.
D’Antoni couldn’t see past the 7TH player on the team. He destroyed his starting players. His teams were rife with injuries. Did you and Marcus have a ‘thing’ going? LOL
And thats without giving any time to Clarke.
by Suns Fan For Life on May 14, 2010 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
Since I am becoming a homer around here
I am going to not interpret that to mean that you believe that the Suns bench is better than the Houston squad that took the Lakers to 7 games with 60% of their team salary in street clothes.
Instead I am going to interpret that to mean that you think the hustle and grit and tenacity of the Phoenix bench reminds you of those wonderful never say die, make them kill you and make it hard on them Rockets. In which case we can be in blissful agreement :)
exactly
you got it right.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
this point is an interesting one and definitely deserving of more discussion
What explains all the second round sweeps??
Refs might be a factor, but I think there may be a lot more going on, or less.
It’s hard to call games against the suns when they are making their shots, I think.
2nd Round sweeps would be a great analysis article.
One of the factors I think is health. It seems, more than usual to me, that the healthy teams are winning and winning big this round of playoffs. The healthier team wins. (In the case of Atlanta, it’s mental health that is the issue perhaps. Or a killer Orlando team.)
Which in some way speaks to me of a bottom line parity. So with basic parity, health rise up the scale in factors.
I absolutely agree that calling against the Suns when they are hitting is risky.
So...
Do we think STAT is coming back or what? I would think ownership has to bring him back. You can not allow this team to get this far only to let it all fall apart by not resigning STAT. What does that say to Nash who resigned here when he could have gone just about anywhere?
Not trying to put a damper on things but this is a very big concern for me and I am sure all of you. I have been a Suns fan since the early 90’s. I was born in 84 and honestly this is my favorite Suns team of all time.
They have the killer instinct, they play with passion, with energy. They have good guys on the team, guys who know their role and do their jobs. They are not the Cavs, a group of guys put around one super star, they are not the Celtics, 3 future hall of famers and a stud PG. No, they are better, they are a team, in every facet of the word, they are a team, a team of destiny.
This is our year. And let’s hope it doesn’t end this year.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Let's worry about this after the final game..
In the meantime, enjoy the ride…!
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
+1 Love it when you young guys are nostalgic.
The Suns and every NBA team have learned to cope with the loss of a star player. We all know that Amare will be hurting himself by leaving the team. The question is will Amare learn from the giant mistake that Joe Johnson made? It has been fun following the Suns franchise. I attended a number of games the very first year of the franchise when they were playing at the fairgrounds. No Bright Side of the Suns back then. This is more fun.
Bravo sir
If there were a smiley face standing up and applauding, I’m sure there is but I’m pretty limited in my icon knowledge, I would have 100 of them here for you. This was a great post and fantastic look at the series. Very original and very enertaining and , IMHO, dead on.
Great work, Zona
I look back and I can’t help but to smile when I see what people were saying when Nash came back. “The Suns will be 10th in the West” “Nash should have signed with a winner team to get his much deserved ring”
Let the experts say whatever they want. It won’t be easy but we will get to the NBA Finals. Suns in 6!
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
Oh boy. Count me among those guys. As much as I have been a Spurs junkie since the DRob era and being spoiled with good guys to cheer on, you can’t blame me for thinking “what the hell!” when Nash announced he is signing back on. In the nba landscape, it looked really bleak for the Suns after the Shaq fiasco.
Even though we lost, I am happy about the Suns being back. The only guy on the Suns team I make fun of is Stat since well…he doesn’t get it.
I was there too.
I though Nash and Grant were hanging onto to starting roles on a bad team rather than bench roles on a contender, and hurting the Suns for it.
Ooops.
I just wanted to voice out to the rest of the non-Suns fans
that the Suns have closed-out 2 series on the road. And that they’ve won multiple 2-game winning streaks. That means that this team can really win on the other home floor and close-out the series.
This team is not afraid to play on the road. We could expect the Suns to win 1 of the first two games in LA.
Steve Nash can only give 100 percent. The other 10 percent he donates to his families.
Excellent writing! Since you guys ousted us, been reading here for whats going on.
I am excited about the Suns-LA matchup. I hope all these role players on the Suns show up against the Fakers. If that happens, I will consider this a very good summer :P
And seriously guys, after all these years of watching basketball, I have no read on these Suns. I thought Gentry did a good job but then again I feel doubtful about how much of it was really intentional. Especially the shooting of Frye. I hope Gasol doesn’t neutralize him and he shoots well. Ah well, this will be very interesting for a change.
As much as I used to think Nash doesn’t have the ‘it’ to lead his team, this year i am seeing different colors. Salut!
Thanks!
What I love most about this team is how they’ve continued to get better and more consistent throughout the season. The bench guy have been there all along, and have proven in the playoffs that they are not shrinking violets. So I don’t see any reason to expect less against the Lakers.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry....
But I lost a lot of respect for this post the moment you said, “people, as a general rule, are very smart.” Couldn’t agree less. :-)
Also, based on your premise that all the so called pundits don’t know jack shit because not one of them predicted a suns sweep of the spurs, let me ask you this….. how many of those same 10 pundits predicated the Lakers sweeping the Jazz. Guess? How many? Well, I’ll tell you…….ZERO.
Does that mean that the Lakers are also……..just maybe……quite possibly……wait for it now………UNQUANTIFIABLE? What does it all mean? Do the quantum physics of this universe even allow for two UNQUANTIFIABLE teams to be on the floor at the same time? Might this not threaten the very time space continuum?
nope
quantum physics does not allow more than 1 team at a time to be unquantifiable. And the Suns got first dibs.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
Basketball is unquantifiable
BOO-YA!
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
We are just looking at the shadows being projected on the wall of a cave
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
another Smoke Monster reference?
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on May 13, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Plato
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
There's a thought
the ideal types team. When I though about it seemed as if the really good players actually aren’t so much ideal types.
Nash is definitely frontrunner for philosopher king.
+1
for a Plato’s Republic reference on a basketball blog. that’s on my list of things to do before I die…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on May 13, 2010 4:58 PM MST up reply actions
+1
for using a word I had to look up. man, I’m just handing them out right and left here…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on May 13, 2010 5:06 PM MST up reply actions
So young Zona' is off to Graduate School...
Good stuff…I am just not sure how far a Masters in Social Degeneracy will take you…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
You weren't lusting after him were you?
I can’t ever rise above a crush when I think of him…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
It's alright...we'll help you through the tough times...
I’m going through one right now….The Network Gestapo at my worksite are threatiening to shut off BSOTS….
Somehow they claim I spend 7 hours a day on it…I know this is impossible, because I take an hour lunch and I am late everyday…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Still I have to convince the IT Manager to let me keep it...
I have tried bribes, boot-licking, and even promising to put in a full days work…
Nothing seems to work..
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I strive for consistency...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
can you use google?
you could probably view the cached site of bsots if they block it, though you would only get to read the front page :/
Ask the Lakers
They are all pros at being socially degenerate.
by Suns Fan For Life on May 14, 2010 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
not yet haha. perhaps in the future. if I learn to speak it, will i grow up to be like ZonaFlash?
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on May 13, 2010 6:30 PM MST up reply actions
I am not sure if you have enough chickens to sacrifice to achieve that level...
Have you considered selling your soul…?
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
I tried, but the devil said it’s not worth much – “descending into dark Kobian depths” was the way he described its worth, I believe.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on May 13, 2010 6:56 PM MST up reply actions
That sucks...I guess you are just out there, man...
Maybe you can start quoting Charles Barkley and see if that helps…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Wouldn't dream of it
My pedanticism is never idle. It is very active, at times even aggressive. But I am currently in remission.
i finally had to look it up
after the 4th or 5th time reading that word on this thread. thanks for the knowledge zona!
Shucks
It’s the curse of an inordinate number of years in school. Since I have such a huge debt for learning all of that stuff, I try to use it whenever possible to get my money’s worth. Since you liked that one, I will see what other nice dead men I can think up. Maybe Kierkegaard…fear and trembling…..I’ll get back with you :)
I see what you mean.
Your post completely disproves the “people are smart” idea. =D
Now your points:
People, especially analysts, are stupid
Generally, it’s the people that run around believing everyone else is so stupid are the people I find that lack intellectual agility and the mental capacity to understand they way other people might think or to infer the information other people might know.
However, the basis of my point does not require that individuals are smart, but that by aggregating, possibly biased opinions, you should get something somewhat useful.
Analysts here are just a benchmark, I also use statgeeks and could use betting markets. Betting markets tend to have some other problems associated with them.
Lakers exceeded expectations - yes they have, but under no circumstances would you say they upset the outcome of the series. Further, they way in which they won was fully in line with what they’ve shown all year.
I should also say that
…while I refer in Point 2 to LAL in 7 being the “gutless coward” pick, I also think it was the honest, intelligent pick made by the panel.
These analysts realized they don’t have a clue.
I mean, the whole point of my post is, who, besides you obviously, really does?
More on disrepect angle
There’s a difference between the L.A. Media and fans’ attitudes and the Lakers players’ attitudes toward the Suns. Only the latter matters in how the games will go.
Read what Kobe has to say about two of the Suns, and tell me if that sounds like under-estimation:
http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2010/05/12/kobe-evaluates-new-nemeses-j-rich-and-grant-hill/35463/
Bryant cited Hill on Wednesday as "a cerebral defender."
"He’s been a great defender since his days at Duke," Bryant said of Hill.
Bryant said Hill has stayed solid on defense "his entire career." Bryant’s natural positional matchup in this series would be with Phoenix shooting guard Jason Richardson, who has been hot all postseason.
Bryant said Richardson is looking as explosive as his past days in Golden State, "playing with a lot of confidence."
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Clearly he's not giving
Grant Hill his props. Suns are calling Kobe the best closer ever. He could at least call Grant Hill the best human being in the league… come on :)
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on May 13, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
Well, probably—since David Robinson and A.C. Green are both retired.
by 8472species on May 13, 2010 1:15 PM MST up reply actions
I know! Kobe is TOTALLY holding back
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
It's not disrespect
he’s just means …“look grant is good, but I’m just say’n…how’s his close line”
"I did not write this" by Not me
Sigh...We may never know what he really meant..
I wish someone could get ahold of a “Narcissism Translator” for this series…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
LeBron James
is available. Think he would help us out?
He'd work if we could ever get his head out the mirror...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Does she "Imelda Marcos" after the translation?
Definitely interested..
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Time to shock the world.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
+1 Zona
Well done. Great word “Unquantifiable”. Certainly fits what this Suns team has become. This playoff team has no relation to the one that started the season on such a hot streak. This team is better. They know how to win. They can close the deal. The Lakers will soon learn the same lessons that Manu Ginobli and the Spurs just experienced.

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