In Defense of Jarron Collins and a Short Spurs-Suns Game 3 Analysis

Not much to add after that post.

I can’t agree with you more.

REC!

That’s exactly what Collins is here for. Our front court is not that experienced and may get into foul trouble and has injuries. (In comparison we have a lot of choices for our backcourt.) He is exactly the type of guy who can give minutes in these situations, and its working well.

But I have to admit it’s sometimes frustrating to see how he misses layups and open shots and has no offensive output… But considering how Rolo has impacted the team, and losing him doesn’t get us into any trouble, you can see that Collins has to be credited.

when the Suns were up and instead of putting it away early the game was close to the end…

That could have helped the Suns in the long run by putting more minutes on Timmy as opposed to a blowout where he rests the 4th quarter

we can live with it.

Why doesn’t he at least foul him a few times so he has to earn it on the line? After his 8-10 minute first quarter stint, he should have three fould, and Duncan should have shot some free throws instead of getting 17 points.

“capitalizing on the Mavs’ ability to choke.”

He cannot keep it up for an extended series unless the Suns show mercy.

Seriously, guys, you were so merciful to our team in the past, may be it’s time to show some mercy again. I mean, you got your wins, got your respect, showed everyone what an amazing team you have, with all your Dudleys and Fryes coming from the bench in opportune moments to save the day and stuff. Your Nash and Amar’e got selected for the 2nd all-NBA team, your home boys Barkley and Hollinger proclaim that you are the best team since Russell’s Celtics or Jordan’s Bulls, and the Cavs are so scared of you that they are losing to Boston at home to avoid the embarrassment in the Finals. You’ve already got everything this postseason, may be it’s time to show some mercy toward the old man Duncan and his pathetic crew.

[shrugging] We needed more information like what someone (NashMV3, I think) provided about Collins—that he’s an excellent screen setter.

I completely agree that they shouldn’t change their rotation to replace Collins, but his value when he’s on the court is suspect. Granted, he does make Duncan work and I realize that’s why he’s in the game. It’s just that he’s such a liability on the offensive end. As I said in a previous discussion, he’s a typical backup in that you get by with him until the regular comes back. We are “getting by” with him, but I’m afraid it won’t be for much longer, and there isn’t a viable plan B until Robin Lopez comes back.

better than an anything Collins?

I would compare the 7sol Suns to Rocky who lost the “eye of the tiger” from the third movie, and the Spurs as Clubber Lang. This Suns team 09-10, is in a rematch with Clubber right now, and we have seen a glimpse of the eye from game 2.

As for Collins, I ain’t complaining as long as we are winning.

I wonder whether Collins will be re-signed for next seson. If Coach Gentry really trusts him, it’s possible.

This is my only issue with Jarron in the line-up. I hate to be “that guy” who always has to bring it up, but I simply cannot agree with the assumption that having Jarron in our starting line-up is “working” only because we are still winning.

Look, our team is winning in spite of the generally poor play of Collins, not because of it. Our team was down 11 to the Spurs before Channing Frye came in, and what do you know, (with a LOT of help from Dudley) we started clawing our way back in and eventually tie it up at the half. We start Collins again in the 3rd quarter, and the Spurs briefly go up 5 points on us again before Gentry once again places Frye in with the starters…and what do you know, we fight back once more and eventually take the lead in the fourth that we then never again relinquish.

This is the same scenario that also happened almost to a tee, in Game 5 of the Portland series. Another close call where Portland was up 17, before Collins was finally pulled from the line-up. Our team pulled out a win in that game as well, but it was yet another slow start that nearly cost us.

In Game 1 of the Portland series, we weren’t so lucky. Portland took an early lead, and we were never able to get our tempo and chemistry right…It was another slow start that did cost us on that occasion.

Now look, although I can certainly back up all of the statements about Collins being more than a coincidence, I’m not going to say that he is the sole reason for our loss in Game 1 against Portland, or our near-misses in Game 5/Portland or Game 2/Spurs. I also am not attempting to credit Frye as the sole reason we seem to do so much better with him in the line-up. It is much more involved, and would take a much more in-depth analysis to point out all of the reasons I’ve seen on both sides of the coin.

But let’s just look at the easiest, most telling evidence to support what I’ve written…You guessed it, Stats!

Out of all our starting line-up, which one seems out of place?

Nash +/- = + 6
Richardson +/- = + 6
Collins +/- = – 8
Hill +/- = + 14
Stoudemire +/- = + 6

Add to that the fact that Jarron only played 9 minutes, and you can see that while his limited may be limited, his impact on the game is quite substantial (and not in a good way).

By the way, Frye’s +/- for Game 2 was + 9…a much more fitting average when placed with the rest of our starters, and hence a big reason why his presence on the court usually meant good things were happening for us.

I’m not going to bother posting all of the stats from Game 1 and Game 5 of the Portland series, but if you look at those stats, they are remarkably similar in this very same regard.

Look, I don’t want to bag on one of our players, that isn’t what this is about. I’m simply stating the simple fact that our team plays much differently, and has much less success when Collins is on the floor. I understand the conundrum that Gentry is facing with Lopez out, and I trust him as our head coach to make the right decisions for our team. However, I also don’t believe we should be set in stone with this current rotation only because it hasn’t cost us the ultimate price of losing a series yet…After all, if we wait until it does ultimately cost us, it will be too late.

Go Suns!

Because Collins plays like Lopez more than Frye does, on both ends of the court,
when Lopez comes back, it would make adjustments easier for the starting line-up and the second unit, as well. We definitely need Lopez to come back in sync with the team, to have a better chance against the Lakers.

Besides, the great thing about our second unit is that they can play without any starting players. It has cohesiveness and rhythm you can’t find in other team’s second units. Frye and Amundsen are important part of that second unit, and should stick with it.

As a fan who had some doubts in Dantoni’s use of the bench, It amazes me to see the whole bench coming out together at the same time.!

It was in the last series where they didn’t have anyone that Collins needed to bang with that I was calling for Frye just for matchup purposes. The Blazers are longer and the inside guys aren’t Timmy-esque – they’re quicker and don’t mind playing out a little further. In this series however, Collins helps control and pound Timmy a bit in the few minutes he plays and serves a better purpose than he did against the Blazers.

I mentioned this in a comment or two during the Blazers series and right after we beat them. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that JRich has gone off during this stretch that RoLo has been out. Since Collins rarely if ever touches the ball on the offensive end he provides more shots to JRich, Amare etc.. The good part of that is that even though he’s not a “threat” the other team can’t simply ignore him. He is after all an NBA player and is more than capable of hitting a wide open 15 footer or cruising in for an uncontested layup or dunk.

In addition, you make good points about making Duncan work. Collins is also a big body that can help clog the lane on defense and “use up fouls” on Duncan, for lack of a better term (we certainly don’t want Amare picking up those fouls). In short, he kind of works for us in some ways. And I essentially agree that we don’t need five viable scoring options — in some ways this works better. That being said, Lopez will obviously provide us with a big boost if and when he returns to his pre-injury form. The offensive rebounds and put-backs will be huge as will the challenging of shots and intimidation on the defensive end. I say this more with the Lakers in mind than the Spurs, thought he would certainly help here in this series.

Must say though, I’m not crazy about the Rocky stuff. The boxing analogy in general makes some sense, but not Rocky dude. It makes us sound like we’re the underdog when you compare the Suns to Rocky. We were the 3 seed, not them. And we are simply the better team. Nuff said.