Dirk To Phoenix, Clearing Up A Few Things
by Seth Pollack on Jun 3, 2010 5:05 PM MDT
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintIn his postseason review of the Suns, Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer goes to great lengths to debunk the idea that Dirk could come to Phoenix as a replacement. In the process, Dwyer gets some key details wrong and misses on a main point - trade exceptions.
First, in theory, I totally agree with Dwyer that Dirk won't end up in Phoenix mostly for the reason he also cites - Mark Cuban will overpay Dirk and max him out if he thinks there's a chance that Nash and Dirk could reunite in Phoenix. Cuban is not going to let that happen.
That said, there's a few important details to clarify because they apply to the Suns overall cap situation and other options for the summer.
1) Grant Hill and Channing Frye both have player options for next season and it is pretty darn clear at this point that Hill is staying (he already told Kerr that) and Frye is going to test free agency.
That gives the Suns a salary of $42.8m for 8 players assuming no Amare, no Frye, no Amundson and also no Jones or Griffin who both have non-guaranteed contracts for next season. With the salary cap at $56.1m, that gives the Suns $13.3m (again w/ no Frye, Lou, Dwayne or Taylor or new 2nd round picks).
2) Dwyer thinks that LB is not tradeable. I totally disagree. There will be a LOT of teams with cap space burning a hole in their pockets and Barbosa is a proven scorer that a few of those teams could add without having to take on a long term commitment. Two years isn't much and especially if you consider that in his final year, he becomes a valuable expiring contract. That's another $7.1m off the cap if he gets moved, so now we are talking about $20.4m in cap space, although there would have to be cap holds for those open roster spots and any 1st round draft picks the Suns got back. So figure about $16m in available space.
3) If the Suns were to trade LB to a team under the cap and only take back draft picks, they also get a trade exception which can be used to acquire other players without having to match salary. In the Amare situation, it is highly likely that the Suns would do a sign-and-trade with a team that wants him and entices him out of Phoenix with a max offer. That could give the Suns significant flexibility if they got back $15m to even $20m in trade exception.
So while I DON'T think it is likely, it is certainly possible that the Suns could get Dirk using these trade exceptions, although it would require the Mavs to in turn do a sign-and-trade with Dirk because trade exceptions can't be used to sign free agents.
The key thing to remember is that the Suns could use these trade exceptions to go over the cap and take back players and fill the space between the salary cap and the luxury tax with some talent. As we've seen over the past few years, teams with cap space and the ability to spend without going over the luxury tax have a lot of flexibility when it comes to making deals.
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I'd rather have Amare
But Dirk’s a nice replacement. Even though Dirk is older, I’m less worried about his health over his next contract than Amare’s, because Dirk’s always been pretty sturdy and his game doesn’t rely much on athleticism.
I would be absolutely flabbergasted if Dirk to the desert happens
Would probably be the most I’ve ever been surprised by a Suns personnel move. To me it’s just way way out there. I know you’ve got Nash friendship and all…but still.
Sorry back to the thread.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
Dirk and Nash reunion? Pipe dream
Don’t think Cubes would again misjudge and fail to pay an aging star and let Phoenix steal him like we swooped on Nash. That said, one can dream… Suns fans would love to be the fat guy in this picture
hey, what's the fat guy's contract look like?
If we could get him on the midsection level exception that would be awesome.
Perhaps the Fat Guy is the real key to locking up Dirk....
Dirk + Fat Guy >> Amar’e
RIP Seasons of Discontent
lol
Steve Nash can only give 100 percent. The other 10 percent he donates to his families.
I believe in the destiny of the Suns. We can prevail.
two equally flawed/brilliiant players
A’m’a’r’e’ heading into his “physical prime” for b-ball players, but with injury history, Dirk older but very durable, both sub-par defensively, Dirk maybe easier on the clubhouse, but Amare brings the fire. Dirk seems highly unlikely, but I sure hope the Suns end up with one of them!
Dirk.
Dirk is a warrior, man. Matchup nightmare. If Nash and Dirk had stayed together they would have already won a few ’chips. If Dirk comes here its ring city baby
Amar'e gets on my nerves, but
I’m still unsure if its possible to win titles with that Dirk kind of shooting…
There isn't a single acceptable situation for the question "Is this game almost over yet?" Not one.
I don't see Dirk as an improvement over STAT..
Not only that, I don’t think we can afford him…Better to look at realistic possibilities than to dream aimlessly…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
The poll looks pretty even.
I love STAT and I don’t think any PF can substitute what he brings to the table, but with Dirk, you have a 7’0 power forward who can chuck 3s. With Channing Frye and Dirk out there, you have a huge defensive mismatch for opposing big men. Robin would be only true post presence. However, Dirk can work the post too and he’s been able to consistently grab double-digit rebounds. So in that regard, we’d have a slight improvement. Both are not great defenders but STAT is an athletic beast. Both are wins in my book.
I picked Dirk BTW
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
Seth
1) Grant Hill and Channing Frye both have player options for next season and it is pretty darn clear at this point that Hill is staying (he already told Kerr that) and Frye is not going to test free agency.
Did you say that right? Frye is not going to test free agency?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Damn...I was hoping that was inside information.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Not 100% related, but related...
With all the Amare leaving talk, there’s always certain destinations mentioned. We obviously dont want to lose Amare and get nothing so a sign-and-trade could also be a possibility. Now, with that said, the Heat are shopping around Beasley. And we all know Miami is one of, if not THE most talked about destination for Amare. Can we PLEASE make sure no deal ever occurs that puts Beasley on this team, with or without Amare involvement.
by KnowGood on Jun 3, 2010 6:39 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Rumours are that the proposed deal is Beasley for Taylor Griffin
If I were the Suns, I wouldn’t do that deal. Might think about it if they throw in one or two #1s.
Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!
Joking aside
I’d love to have Udonis Haslem on our team. He’s like a more controlled Lou with a reliable 15-footer.
Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!
I've always been opposed to the Beasley trade.
And I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. You don’t want to fool your fanbase into thinking Beasley is the next big thing, and trade for him JUST because you don’t want to lose Amare for nothing. I’d rather try and move Barbosa, get a first round pick (or something), and see what happens.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Jun 4, 2010 2:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree
I don’t like Beasley either. I don’t see him as a quality prospect.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
+100000000
No Beasley, talk about a potential chemistry nightmare. No thanks, plus I don’t think he is that good of a player. Try to move LB, even though I love the guy, he is the most movable.
I was quite high on Beasley but I've cooled off on him considerably
Dude doesn’t look like a quality NBA player anymore
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
He has a great skill set,
but he totally lacks work ethics and determination.
Wow, Amar’e and Dirk in a dead heat!!
Basketball player-wise, I’d say Dirk… but Dirk has this intangible that worries me — he’s too “scarred”. Losing in the finals after being up 2-0. Then GSW happened. And since then they haven’t even been back to the West Finals.
And in that sense, our very own leader Nash is only more scarred.
Guys like Ray Allen and KG… they had been on bad teams most of their careers before joining the Celtics, so they could think and BELIEVE that if they had better teammates, they’d win. And they ended up being right. For Dirk and Nash, they’ve been on good teams that has always fallen short one way or another. So one bad break and it’s “here we go again.”
I’m not saying that Dirk or Nash aren’t mentally tough. They are. But I’d also think that they’re quite beaten up mentally. Who knows at what point with they break and just give in?
Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!
nash
i think seeing the pictures of him crying after game 6 you sensed he thought that he felt that this was his time to go to the finals it will be nice to see how nash comes back mentally next season.
"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."
After game 6, a friend left the following message on my Facebook wall:
“Nash should retire.”
I didn’t even know what to say to that. Still don’t.
Grant Hill is totally the next MJ!!
You can't have the best point guard in the NBA retire.
It would be a travesty for a 36 year old Steve Nash, who is still playing like the best point guard in the NBA, to retire when he doesn’t even look like he’s on the decline yet.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
I think...
I fairly significant number of athletes cry after losing big games… we just happened to see it in this case. I wouldn’t look in to it at all.
by bmxican on Jun 4, 2010 3:57 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seth
great article and thanks for making it easy to understand the free agency numbers.
i think i would personally take Dirk over Amare because we would match up better with the lakers but Dirk was only double digit rebounds 20 times this season comapared to 30(twice in playoffs) by amare so i dont mind who comes back but if we dont get amare (1a) or (1b) we screwed. david lee would be my 3 option after that my traditional panic will set in.
random question to ne1: what if Dirk goes screw you Cuban and your crazy antics im opting out of here can he sign to a team lets say for example the knicks without the knicks having to give anythign back to the mavericks as compensation
"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."
Yes
He can do that just like Amare can. Only prob is he can’t get Bird Rights (extra year and extra 1.5% increase per year)
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
LB
what do you guys think we can realistically get for LB?
i think LB and 2nd rounder for a trade exception and a first rounder (16th pick) to minnesota?
"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."
LB for Hasheem Thabeet and a resigned Ronnie Brewer
i don’t think anyone can comprehend how much i want this trade to happen
yes we can
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
How much is Brewer going to be paid?
Are there any minutes left for Clark to play?
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
I wouldn't have thought he'd get much more than sefolosha, who got about 2.5million a year from OKC
But Brewers really a SG so i don’t think he’d interfere much with Clarks minutes
So Dudley plays at SF and Clark's a PF?
Isn’t he being groomed at SF?
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Clark'
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Clark's a tweener at 3/4
and Dudley’s a tweener at 2/3. both can play sig minutes in the future. You can’t have enough talent.
Regarding Brewer, he’d only be worth it if he could get quality minutes and that would only be after Richardson is gone because LB was only getting 15 a game as it was.
And when would Thabeet play? He does exactly what Lopez does, which means the opposing team would only have to prepare for essentially one player at center. I like having two opposite centers (Lopez and Frye) because it makes the other team play 2 completely different defenses and allows Gentry to ride the more effective one each game.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I was thinking of Hasheem basically to make the salaries work
but he could effectively replace lou’s minutes if we couldn’t resign him as they have very similar games (only Thabeet is 7ft3 instead of 6ft9). Backup big men of Frye (assuming we resign him) and Thabeet would serve effectively the same as lou and frye.
As for Brewer i’d want to start him if he could shoot worth a damn, but he would certainly allow us to shop J-Rich’s expiring contract around to see what comes up.
The case *for* Dirk
It’s not going to happen, but I figured I should post this, fyi:
- Is an NBA MVP. Can still take over a game by himself.
- Doesn’t need another teammate to play off. Can create his own shot, and chase his own opportunities. In turn, will box out and screen for his teammates. tougher than Gasol and Bosh.
- Might choke, at times, but will never fail to turn up. Will never sulk about his role or numbers.
- Inside/outside game: very Bird like in his approach.. has an underrated inside game, particularly on the low-post. Can stretch the floor with his outside game and range. Plays the pick & roll with Nash as well as anyone. Can play the 3 if needed.
- Superior passing..
- Vastly smarter player.. will take what the opposition gives him, and pass if someone else has a better shot, instead of trying to dominate at all costs (or passing when you have no shot)
- Another member of the 50:40:90 club.
- Nash’s final revenge against Cubes
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2010 7:33 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
You know
my initial reaction was no, you can’t win with a perimeter guy like Dirk (the Mavs didn’t score in the paint and Dirk is not an inside threat like Amare) but I could talk myself into it with the promise of a full season of Robin starting and his likely improvement and also hopefully Clark.
You could play some crazy line ups with those guys – Robin, Frye, Dirk, Clark and Hill – and create plenty of problems. I would say that’s a darn good team that would have to get lucky to get to the finals. The chemistry would be great again.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
it's a moot point, but I don't they'd be lucky to get to the finals
imho, that team would win over 65 games, and walk its way into the finals, provided everyone stayed healthy, and assuming the usual improvement we’d expect of a team that was entering its second year together.
Dirk has a far more rounded game than people give him credit for, certainly more rounded than Amare.
The fundamental question you have to ask when putting a team together is this: what can I reliably expect in terms of team stats from each player in my team, individually and in combinations. Not what is the best individual statistical play I can expect from him, or how many points is this guy gonna score. I’d be looking for a way to account for the intangibles.
It’s a question I have about Goran, to be honest, because he has great games sprinkled among average games and stinkers, although imho the long term prognosis is favorable in his case.
It’s also a question I’ve been having about Amare over the last few years. I still don’t have a good answer in his case, because I’m still not convinced of his mental fortitude and desire. I’ve said this before.. I’d be willing to give up a player with a high ceiling if it meant raising the floor. I still believe that, and imho that’s what you’d get if you replaced Amare with Dirk.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2010 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
lowering the ceiling and raising the floor
nice
Read.
by jog on Jun 4, 2010 1:04 AM MDT up reply actions
yes but
Dirk would raise the floor, but also expectations – and this team has never done well with higher expectations (and neither has Dirk, come playoff time in Dallas). I’d rather keep them low and surprise people, than play the entire season under such pressure. Remember how “not fun” 2007 was?
And since it’s the offseason, allow me to nitpick:
I question your comments about Goran’s average games and stinkers. Goran’s average games and stinkers were almost always due to playing fewer minutes in a game. Also, you’re talking about the league’s most efficient offense (one of the 3 best ever). When he has an average/stinker game, the rest of the team is scoring anyway. I can’t remember the last time the team needed a huge boost and he failed to deliver. That’s the sign of a bright future.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on Jun 4, 2010 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
we're not going to surprise anyone next season..
whatever reasons you use to explain Goran’s inconsistent production, you haven’t argued against that issue.
And my point is this: if his floor is higher, that raises the whole teams game when other players don’t have to compensate for him. And if you don’t think that matters, I’d point out that we’d still be playing if we’d made a few extra baskets each game.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2010 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
so you're blaming our loss in the WCF on Goran?
preposterous.
I must be misunderstanding you.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
No blame.. just making a general point
Every player has crappy games, but what the floor refers to is the general minimum level of performance, so what you’re trying to do is improve the quality of play in the worst games. That way, when a bench player has a good game, they’re contributing to a win, not compensating for their teammates.
So in Game 5, if Sideshow & Frosty (or JRich, Amare, Channing and Leandro for that matter) each make one more fg attempt in regulation, so they end up shooting 33% and 40% for the game (which are not great numbers, by any stretch), respectively, we win. If only one of them makes an extra shot in regulation, we go into overtime where we probably win. BTW, this point applies to everyone else on the team, over the course of the series.
As I said before, the long term prognosis for Goran looks good, imho, so I think he’ll get there, probably this season or next. He has a good head on his shoulders, so I’m guessing he realizes the importance of not turning into another Nate Robinson.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2010 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions
You're right
i’ll love us to keep Amar’e as we already know him and he is also younger, but if we can’t make him stay, then we should get Dirk instead. Nash could focus on other players (Lopez mostly), while Dirk does his thing. It could even get better if we by some miracle trade LB for Iggy.
I honestly don’t see us winning a championship if we return the same team next season, we could if we add someone who can score, create his chances, defend and rebound (Iggy).
Hope we do better in 2010/11
We forget the only reason Dirk will come to Phoenix is if Dirk thinks we are contending....
….are we still contending by letting Amare walk and replacing him with Dirk put us on the upper echelon of West teams?
If Dirk does come to Phoenix then,assuming we dont resign Frye. Who are we going to replace him with that can compete with the length of the Lakers. These are the question Dirk will probably ask himself and the team considering he does think about coming to Phoenix.
Slumdog Millionaire without the million.
You don't think Dirk comes to Phoenix to reunite with his best friend?
He’s got to feel like he and Nash could form the basis of a contending team now, even after all these years.
by underxthebridge on Jun 3, 2010 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions
The 36 year old man who was supposed to sharply decline this season
managed to will his team to the Western Conference Finals. The team was full of people the media have never heard of and they shocked the basketball world. Steve played like an MVP this season and we know it’s not over yet.
Hell, after Games 1 and 2, they had the Lakers on their heels. They won games 3 and 4, lost by a lucky buzzer beating tip-in in game 5 AT LA, and almost beat the Lakers in Phoenix if not for Kobe’s late game heroics.
The opportunities were there and we all saw that the Suns were more than capable of getting far. We’re definitely contending but as it stands, we enter next season as an underdog. Dirk would be great for our team and we would be contenders if we keep most of our key pieces. If Clark develops, the possibilities looks endless.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
I hate being the underdog come next season
When Denver battled the Lakers in WCF last season, they were praised and next season the media had high expectations about that team.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Denver is a different animal
Kenyon Martin, JR Smith, Anderson are a few head cases, plus Karl battling cancer was a huge loss.
HERESY IS ABOUT TO BE COMMITTED
A Nash turnover in the last minute of the 5TH game in the WFC could very well have been the key to the defeat. Nash was out of control and trying to make something happen when he lost the ball in the paint.
Also, there is no convincing evidence that the Suns could or would have won that game in OT. The Lakers had to be favored if the game was tied at the end of regulation.
contending...
PHX swept the team that knocked dirk out in the first round, wether dirk is up grade to amare is debatable. but you gotta assume dirk believes he is…so his rational would be “think how much better they would be with me”
"I did not write this" by Not me
do u really think
Dirk will come to Phoenix (i keep saying that like i’m in Phoenix) if Amar’e was there? They play the same position and are both starters.
Dirk is not an upgrade
Unfortunately both Amare and Dirk are known to go missing in key playoff games.
Dirk definitely has a “choke” reputation, and Amare is known for his lackluster play in most games (tho some people think that it is made up for with a couple of “bully ball” games, i disagree.).
Dirk would be a step sideways, not a step forward.
by Chucko667 on Jun 3, 2010 8:09 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
A step sideways...
is ALWAYS better than a step backwards. There are two ways to look at this discussion… 1) Amaré vs. Dirk 2) Amaré leaves and we need somebody good….the best of what is possibly available… Dirk.
I really don't understand
that people just so easily conclude dirk is known to go missing in playoff, most probably because he never won a ring…. this is simply not true, as far as I remember he rarely played below his capabilities… in GS series he was best, he single hand won game 6 of 2006 wcf, as well as that spurs game 7 in san antonio(2007 or 2008, don’t recall)… this year as wwll he played great vs spurs…. he is pretty consistent both in regular season and playoff…
Dirk has a "choke" reputation but I don't think it's merited
He’s been pretty ridiculous in Game 7s iirc
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Amare..
I was a big fan of amare during his 1st 2-3 years then kind of got turned off by his lack of will/ focus to battle inside for rebounds. But this year he’s been a lot better even with an average rebounding stat (for a35-minute PF) – i guess its either he’s been doing good boxing out for the swingmen (hill, dudley, jrich) or theres simply a lot more better tea rebounders this year. Either way it allowed Amare to focus on his offense and he is simply the best inside scorer in theNBA! So i would rather he re-sign with Suns.
On the other hand if he does sign elsewhere – Dirk is a consistent scorer who wont take nights off rebounding and defending and playing hard. Not that he’s a better rebounder/ defender or doesnt go missing in some playoff games… but he does put in the effort
why no talk about david lee or brendan haywood?
if frye leaves, sign haywood as a back up center
if amare leaves, and the suns can’t do a sign and trade worth while? i don’t know how good david lee is, but looking at his numbers, he’s a 20/10 guy? think the guy could be had for pretty cheap (around 10 mil)
and are you sure jones isn’t signed through 2011?
jarron collins doesn't tea bag the lakers, he potato sacks them
Goran Dragic's tears can cure cancer... too bad he doesn't cry
We
certainly can not afford Haywood as a backup center! Even so, he wouldn’t go to a team where he is not a starter, probably with some exceptions.
Plus
Haywood bitched about playing time in Dallas. Ridiculous. You’re making a playoff run, have a chance to do something special – and this after you’ve won more games in 2 months than you did in the previous 2 YEARS in Washington – and you’re bitching about playing time.
Amare sat sometimes, and never complained. Nash played only 3 4th quarter minutes in 2 WCF games, and never complained. Dudley clearly deserves to start, but never complained…. need I go on?
NO THANKS, on Haywood!
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
He played at the same school as Michael Jordan...
Plus he does a nice little shimmey thing after he dunks…Will that make you change you mind….?
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
by Daryl Ray on Jun 4, 2010 8:35 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
no LOL
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Regarding David Lee,
Look at it this way, Amare is a better defender than him. Plus we’d be severely undersize come next playoff game/s against the Lakers.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Brendan Haywood = poor man's Eric Montross
by Aluminum Foyle on Jun 4, 2010 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Say a "poor man's Eric Montross..."
Is like saying you are an apprentice thief…
You don’t go nowhere from there…
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
You know
Lee in Phoenix would be a good fit, 20/10 no, I still could see 15/8, Amare numbers no, but still would be a solid player. Especially if Amare and Channing both leave.
and yet we'd be paying the guy
12-15 mil a year?
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Yeah. But we may be paying Amare twice that.
Does he have twice the production of Lee. Nope.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jun 4, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
MAx salary for STAT is going to be around 19 mil per...
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
Not for us.
That is what someone else can give him. If we give him the max it is a bit more because of his bird rights.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jun 4, 2010 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Based of the 56.1 mil salary cap, tha tis fairly close to wha tit will be..
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
i could see that as well...
However, someone else will overpay him first and I’m okay with that.
by underxthebridge on Jun 4, 2010 10:35 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Voted Amare
Still of the mindset that keeping things as is would be best. That said, I still fully believe that if Amare is gone, Dirk is the second best option.
Money aside, you know Nash will be having conversations with him off the record. And our front office.
What do Nash and Dirk have in common...
Neither has won a title…..not together or apart. So while both are great, there’s obviously been something missing. Yeah I know that if we lost Amar’e we have to get somebody good. Well my vote is that Kerr/Sarver do everything possible to make keeping Amar’e priority 1. There is no replacement. Everything being discussed…and everything that has ever been discussed on this topic has NEVER produced a scenario by which we get value back. It’s always been about settling for what’s left. Well if the only answer is settling, we should probably try to avoid that situation.
People can moan about whether he’s worth max money or not. But somebody’s gonna pay it to him. And then we’re going to be left overpaying some other wanna be more money than they’re worth to try and replace him and more importantly appease the fans.
Dirk is a great perimeter player, and yeah he can create his own offense with that fade away jump shot…operative words being jump shot. In the playoffs, I’d much rather have Amar’e and Nash running the pick and roll, with Amar’e getting to the rim and posterizing someone, than watch Dirk stand outside launching long range shots. That’s why come crunch time, it looks like he disapears.
Let’s not settle. Man up and pay Amar’e.
by FunInTheSun on Jun 4, 2010 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't agree more.
It’s a risk, because his knees can’t be insured. But we really can’t do any better as far as impact or value than Stat.
I really think he heard the criticism about his defense – historically, every summer, he has dramatically improved some aspect of his game (the exception being last summer, where he had to lie perfectly still face down for 21 hours a day for 6 months.) If he can work on defending and rebounding this summer, he will make whoever signs him look awfully smart – unless he hurts a knee.
He has all the talent in the world – he wants to be in that top echelon of players – the only way to do that is to play D. I think he will.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
After Dirk...
Boozer would be a good option (i dont know much about salary caps/ trade details so im not commenting on how wecan get him)…. I know he’s undersized especially vs Lakers but Amare or Dirk plays small too on the defensive end so its not as if were losing anything. Not a good post defender – same comment Amare not that good either but Boozer does put in the effort. And he is definitely the better rebounder by a mile. Of course the biggest question mark would be how he would mesh with the rest of the Suns – is he really that bad as a locker room team guy??
No...
I dont know about his locker room presence. But he doens’t seem the fit for Phx. I would love to get Wallace from Charlotte but that won’t happen. That is the kind of guy we need if Amare bolts. Otherwise, I would say Bosh is next on the list.
People forget that the Suns have so much going for them right now. They almost beat the Lakers. They got to the Western Conference Finals with youth and a strong bench. They can really only get better. That is going to look enticing for a lot of players. Especially if they can dump LBs salary for a first round or a strong big man.
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jun 3, 2010 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wallace over Bosh?
That’s bold…
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Jun 4, 2010 3:12 AM MDT up reply actions
I know..
But did you see Wallace play against the Magic? The dude was, for lack of a better word, stunning. I mean, here is a guy with all of Amare’s athletic ability, plus he plays with super heart and can do the defensive things AND rebounds like a hell-hound. His shooting game isn’t great, but that can be developed. Watching Wallace is like watching what Amare should be or would have been baring his knee injury. He is like Amare and Lou wrapped up into one player. Its really just sick.
I mean, Charlotte is not a great team. This was most easily seen in the fact that after they got Capt. Jack they skyrocketed. They needed a shooter that could make his own shots. Finally they got one. The way they survived was by having a lot of big men to take up space and foul and then Wallace, Jackson, and filler to make shots. And it worked like a charm.
With Wallace on the team we would have everything we need to get to the next level. A great rebounder, inside-man, defender. Plus the advantage of Lopez in the paint and Clark at the 3. Duds/Rich playing the 2 and Nash/Dragic at PG.
With Bosh, you get some of those things. A great rebounder. Decent defender and good offensive moves. Maybe better than Wallace in that regard. But you have to sign a max, and you already know Bosh’s ceiling. Wallace’s has yet to be determined in my opinion.
Reading is good...
Wallace is a Max Contract in the making
If he manages to improve his offense. He’ll be wanted by every team.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
and, manages to shake his injury bug
the guy has been glass for much of his career. At least, that’s his rep.
Love him regardless, though. Really good player. Yet the Marion comparison is valid in the good ways AND bad ways. Wallace is not a #1 or #2 option on a championhip team. The Suns were at their best when Marion was option #4 (in 2005), and came up short when he was #2 (in 2006) at which point he started pining to be a #1.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I think the reason why he's been a "glass"
is because he plays and hustles without regard to his well being. Reckless is one word that’s describes him best.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
that doesn't alleviate my concerns though
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I haven't seen a whole lot of Wallace,
but the first thing that comes to my mind in that lineup you projected, is that he is too small to play 4. He is 6’7. That means Earl Clark has him by 3 inches.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in Utah, people hate Boozer. The guy is a worse defender than Amar’e. He isn’t as nearly dominating offensively as Amar’e is. He’s also a bit older. The only thing he’s better at is rebounding. Plus, he isn’t worth all that cash.
Problem
Mark Cuban will overpay Dirk and max him out if he thinks there’s a chance that Nash and Dirk could reunite in Phoenix. Cuban is not going to let that happen.
The problem with this is that its not Cuban’s decision. Dirk has choosen to opt out even though he already makes a max amount. It is clear to everyone that is not a Mavs fan that Dallas won’t go anywhere with Dirk as the main option and no one to back him up. They have a weak inside game and the offense funnels through him. Dirk wants to opt out because he is looking for a better situation. Not more money. If the Suns made a real run at Dirk and were serious there is nothing Cuban could offer, IMO, that would keep him away. New scenery. Fresh team. Best friend. Better chance at Playoffs. What more could the guy ask for.
Reading is good...
I just looked it up
Dirk makes 19.7 this year and next year (what he is opting out of) he will get over 20. The max right now is TMac at 23. No way Cuban pays Dirk more than that to stay around. Cuban likes Dirk, but not so much that he would sacrifice his franchise for the next 5 years. With Dirk at, say, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26…he would cripple the Mavs for 4 years after that. No way. Besides, at this point in Dirk’s career its not about the money or being a Max player. Its about the Rings.
Reading is good...
so, if people outside know the Mavs can't get anywhere with Dirk
why do we want him again?
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Because it's the new toy for Christmas
It’s so shiny, and pretty…..I want it!!!!
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can and slap the crap out of him before he figures out you are there...."
- me into a mental stupor after forgetting the rest of Ulysses S. Grant's speech....
by Daryl Ray on Jun 4, 2010 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Because we can offer him a better supporting cast.
He doesn’t have to wait for Terry or the ever reliable Butler to go on a hot shooting streak. In here, everyone will score. He can count on the fact that there will be at least 2 players(aside from him) here that will have a career night on any given game.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
hes had various high-level supporting casts
in the past 6 years and not won as much as the Suns did. How many times have I heard that the mavs are the most dangerous team coming into the playoffs? And each time they’ve come up short.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
by Alex Laugan on Jun 4, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The whole cast/or rotation of the Mavericks only looks good on the paper.
It also comes down to how the whole team plays. If both Dirk and Terry are having an off night, chances are they’ll lose.
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Good question
I dont think its that you cat get anywhere with Dirk, its that Dirk cant be the sole option for the team. On that Dallas team they have option. But they aren’t very good. The only time Dallas looked good in that series vs. SA is when Butler was scoring and Beaubois was scoring. During those times they looked great and beat the Spurs handily. When Dirk is the only one getting shots he plays well but everyone else stands around.
What Dirk needs is a new system where he isn’t the focal point. The Suns will do just that. Say what you will about whether Nash or Kidd is a better pg, Nash is a far better shooter and the offense goes through him. In PHX, if you pass to Amare and nothing is available everyone else on the court is ready to make or take a shot. In Dallas, if you pass to Dirk and he isn’t available, then you pass the ball around some more and take a bad shot. Huge difference. Its also why we swept the Spurs and they lost 4-2.
Reading is good...
Question
I am lost on this sign and trade. How does the Suns get a sign and trade with Amare? If he opts out of his deal doesn’t that give the opportunity to sign anywhere without the sign and trade? Or does his opting out of his deal give the Suns the opportunity to sign and trade.
Please help, I have no idea.
My understanding is that:
If he opts out, then we loose him without any talent or even picks in return. If he chooses that then we’re screwed but he won’t be able to earn the max money he wants. The sign and trade stuff means that there will be some sort of mutual agreement between Amare and the front office to sign him to a max deal then trading him to another team that will and hopefully could give us an excellent prospect, expiring contract and 1st round pick/s. This deal will give Amare the most money and give the Suns something when he walks out.
I hope I got it.☺
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Wow I thought that vote would be for Amare in a landslide...
Dirk is the better player now, although Amare wil have many more years in him IF he can stay healthy…
It would be uber fun to see Nash and Dirk playing together again…
Maybe someone can clarify but why don't the Suns engage in sign and trade talks with another team who might have their main FA leave...
For example if it is a given Amare will leave and it is a given Bosh will leave why not sign and trade the guys for eachother… I know they would have to agree to this but I am surprised to see it no happening more…
not that know shit about this stuff
but that would mean amare would have to agree to go to a team that couldn’t make the playoffs in the weak ass east, with bosh.
"I did not write this" by Not me
right
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
I want Dirk if Amar'e leaves
Dirk’s my 3rd fav player after Nash and STAT.
please Dirk, please play with Nash again.
Steve Nash can only give 100 percent. The other 10 percent he donates to his families.
I believe in the destiny of the Suns. We can prevail.
Big difference between dirk and Amar'e?
Dirk is Clutch. How many times do you see Amar’e taking control in the last few minutes of a close game? Dirk does it nightly. Dallas had the best winning percentage last year in close games because of Dirk. I’m not sure how well that transfers to the playoffs, but i would certainly take the pressure off nash to produce in the clutch.
You're retarded if you think Dirk is better than Amare
And here’s why….
-Amare provides an inside game, that Dirk doesn’t. If we lose Amare, who is gonna give you points in the paint?
-Amare is a slightly better defender than Dirk
-Dirk may be a better shooter, but we don’t need a PF to shoot 3’s. Amare is just fine from 18-20 feet.
-Amare gets to the free throw line more. With Dirk, when goes into the lane, he’ll fadeaway, instead of going strong and drawing contact.
-Amare is YOUNGER!
-Amare for Dirk would be the equivalent to when the Sonics traded away Shawn Kemp for Vin Baker. At first, everyone thought it wasn’t a bad deal, and the naysayers spinned it as a great deal, but then everyone realized how great and athletic Kemp was (just like Amare), and of course they never were a contender again.
I guess I'm retarded after all...
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
I already knew i was retarded
I’m so retarded even a retard can tell I’m retarded…thats how I know I’m retarded
"I did not write this" by Not me
you know how i know you're retartded
cuz i’m retarded and can tell who the other retards are…
Kobe Bryant is the Goran Dragic of America
While I prefer Amare, Dirk has a few advantages:
- While he’s older, his game doesn’t rely on athleticism, and he hasn’t had major surgery on his knee and eye, and he recovers quickly from the minor injuries he has gotten
- He can create his own shot. Amare sort of started to learn to do that this season, but I still don’t completely trust him in isos because his ballhandling is suspect
- Dirk’s bball IQ is a lot higher
by Justin Burning on Jun 4, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
completely agree
and to be honest I LIKE watching Amar’e posterizing people. while i do appreciate the finer aspects of Dirks game. and dunking the ball is still just 2 pts. some times I want to see a thunderus bitch slap suck on this DUNKAROOO, alla Toliver. Dirk can’t give me that.
"I did not write this" by Not me
Yeah, those posters can be game changers if the game isn't in their favor.
It pumps up the team and crowd. If the game isn’t going your way, it could be a potential momentum swinger. We all know the Steve Nash and Amar’e Stoudemire pick and roll is the best in the NBA. Dirk and Steve were also lethal at the pick and roll in Dallas. Both have their pluses but in the end, it will all come down to what Amar’e wants and whether Steve Kerr can pull off such a thing.
Also, from where did Kelly Dwyer come up with Dirk going to Phoenix? It seemed like the most impossible thing to happen but she brought it up in her blog.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
KD's a dude
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I disagree that Amare's a better defender
And Dirk can play inside if he needs too. You’re right about missing Amare’s ability to get FTs though.
I’d love to keep Amare, but not at max for 6 years…
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Dirk has an MVP, Amare does not. case closed.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Not so fast Pliny
The age difference here is a deal buster. The Suns would become one of the oldest teams in the league. There is not much to be said for aging players who have lots of miles on their legs.
yeah, but old teams win titles...
if you look at which teams have won titles over the last 30 years or so, you’ll notice that teams overloaded with veteran talent tend to be the teams that win titles. even last years Lakers had an abundance (Kobe, Fish, Pau, Luke, etc…) of older players, plus that squad has been together for a while. And God knows how old the 07-08 Celtics were… they had Sam Cassell, P.J Brown and Scot Pollard come off the bench, and still won a title.
Understand, we’re not going to get Dirk unless some pretty remarkable events transpire. So while it’s interesting from a “hey we’re out of the playoffs, and we have nothing to do until the World Cup starts, so why don’t we shoot the shit for a while” perspective, it probably ain’t gonna happen.
Nonetheless, unless you’re a Suns fan, nor not old enough to shave, then by any rational and objective measure there’s no fricking way anyone would rate Amare over Dirk.
And it’s not even close. Hell, in today’s column by Wojnarowski, Pat Riley isn’t sure whether he wants Amare over Carlos Boozer. I mean, that’s pretty fucking sad, from any point of view.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 6, 2010 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Mark my words
Robin Lopez will be a solid post presence in 2010-2011
Kobe Bryant is the Goran Dragic of America
well since we're dreaming...
The ideal situation unfolds something like this ; )
Amare, Bosh, and D’wade are all convinced that Mikail Prokohovakanalanabingbang is the best thing since sliced bread. He wants them all on Max-to-the-Max contracts, thus Amare needs a sign and trade. But – StatMax and BoshMax both want starting jobs, Lopez2 doesn’t want to give up his starting job and the Suns need something enticing to play ball with the sign and trade, thus Lopez2 comes to the Valley of the Sun to cause some Western Conference chaos with Fropez.
Dirk goes “Oh Snap!” and signs with Phoenix at a great yet reasonable salary to ride off into the sunset (Championship) with best buddies Stevie Nash and the fat guy from the picture, if he wants.
Our line-up looks like this -
Starting – 1. StevieBoy 2. JRich, 3. Dirk (yes, he “starts” at the 3) 4. Lopez2 on D/Fropez on O 5. Lopez2 on O/Fropez on D.
6 Minute Rotation – 1. StevieBoy 2. Dudley 3. Hill 4. Dirk 5. Lopez2.
2nd Quarter – 1. Dragic 2. Dudley 3. Hill 4. Clark 5. Frye.
18 Minute Rotation – 1. StevieBoy 2. JRich 3. Dirk 4. Frye 5. Fropez/Lopez2 (game-time decision).
3rd = Starters.
32 Minute rotation and 4th = Same as 6 MR and 2nd + Game-time adjustments.
4th = 1. StevieBoy 2. JRich, 3. Dirk 4. Fropez or Frye (game-time decision) 5. Lopez2.
This is assuming we lose both Lou and Barbs :( but if we keep them sprinkle the minutes for them in where appropriate (i.e, Clark).
Awesome right!? Now lets just pray for a Miracle! We’d probably end up playing the Nets in the Finals in this situation though. But I think we could take’em ; )
lol
I love the way these comments are going...
reality, schmeality!
Maybe the Suns should chase David Lee and Brook Lopez.
If the Knicks do a sign and trade for Lee, maybe we can sign and trade Lou to the Knicks. We’d also add Barbosa to the deal to match salaries and Mike D will get one of his favorite players back. Assuming we lose Amar’e, then we’d sign and trade him to the Nets (assuming he wants to go there) and hope to get Brook and some other pieces and a few draft picks in return.
We’d get 2 quality rebounders. We can start David Lee at the 3. Brook and Robin take up the 4 and the 5 with Nash and J-Rich in the backcourt. The 2nd unit would be Dragic at PG, Hill at SG, Dudley at SF, Clark at PF, and Frye at C. It would be a dream come true. I think this Suns roster would work great together. I expect great chemistry to stay.
Grant Hill at the SG position spells matchup problems in the 2nd unit. Clark can get his minutes. We’d have 2 7 footers to contend with Gasol and Bynum and David Lee could cancel out the matchup problem we have with Odom. Yes, I’m at the point where I’m looking for roster tweaks that will contend with the Lakers. They’re the team everyone’s chasing so it’s not really too big a stretch.
In Nash I Trust! Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
start Lee at the 3, really?
the only thing we’d win next year is the lottery if we did that.
Yeah, but Lee off the bench
replacing the twin towers along with Frye, etc. would be a good idea.
I like the line up though a lot
Nash/Dragic
Rich/Dragic/Hill/Dudley
Hill/Dudley/Clark
Lopez/Frye/Clark
Fropez/Lee (or Lee/Fropez, if you wanna look at it that way)
I’m pretty sure that’s a finals worthy line up… a HUGE front court, and a great offencive back court, plus vercitile swing men, and plenty of three point shooters still!
Kobe Bryant is the Goran Dragic of America
So no playing time for CLark?
Timon: Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase
Pumbaa: Hakuna Matata! Ain't no passing craze
Timon: It means no worries for the rest of your days
Timon: It's our problem-free philosophy
Both: Hakuna Matata!
The Lion King (1994)
Resign Frye and Lou
Yeah i just remembered what i was thinking about game 6 Suns vs LA, why not Frye at the 4 and have Lopez at 5, and resign LOU and Frye(of course), only IF Amare leaves, then sign or draft more depth at the 4 and 5 positions.
Dwyer is consistently clueless about the basics of transactions
He repeatedly has asserted that it’s harder to trade young players on their rookie contracts, for example – because matching is a problem. Any NBA GM who doesn’t want solid young players at their rookie money is a fool…. Well, I speak hypothetically, because there aren’t any such GMs.
In general I wouldn’t trust the guy to have any accurate sense of players’ relative values. In specific, he’s just plain daffy when it comes to the mechanics of how things work in the NBA.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
This has been interesting, but besides Dirk wanting to come to PHX (and Cuban agreeing to it)
Why would Amar’e want to go to Dallas? At least we beat the Spurs – they didn’t even do that. Amar’e wants to join another superstar, not be compared to Dirk for the rest of his career.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I sincerely doubt
It’d be a double sign-and-trade. It’d be Amare walking, and the Suns freeing up just enough room to sign Dirk outright.
by Justin Burning on Jun 6, 2010 8:49 AM MDT up reply actions
right, to Justin's comment
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
But we can't do that, from what I understand.
Maybe I’m wrong – I’ve spent 3 days researching the CBA and salary cap, but my understanding is that we can give Stat more money, more raises, and an extra year on his contract if we sign him, due to the ‘Bird rule’. I’ve also read that the MOST cap room we could free up is 12-13 million, which isn’t going to get us Dirk or any max player, because we also have to use some of that cap room to sign/resign role players. We don’t have a mid-level exception next year. After next year, the owners are threatening a lock-out, and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) is likely to change radically at that point, so the chances of us having room the next year is small.
If anyone knows why I’m wrong, please tell me. But it looks to me as if Amar’e is our best option. and the next best option is a sign-and-trade, which will almost certainly degrade our talent level and lower our cap space.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
we do have a MLE next year
we don’t have a biannual exception because we used it to sign hill last summer.
a couple things
1) you’re right on the 12-13 million, if Amare signs outright with someone else. But if we could send LB to someone with cap space and get nothing back but future draft picks, then that becomes 20 million. There’s where we could have the money to sign Dirk. After that, the Suns would not be able to use the 5 mill MLE because that’s only for teams who start the summer over the cap. So basically, we’d have to fill in with minimums. So that would be Dirk for Amare, LB and Channing and Lou. Ouch.
2) I DO think we still have the 2 mill bi-annual don’t we? I thought we paid Channing under a portion f the 5 mill MLE?
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Thanks for that explanation.
Couldn’t we at least sign Channing, and maybe Lou in that scenario? We would be over the cap, but under the luxury tax, and we should be able to go over the cap to re-sign our own players – or not?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
We apparently have $864,000 in MLE and $1,990,000 in Bi-annual exceptions.
Grant Hill and Channing Frye were both signed using the MLE.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
We also have 2 trade exceptions - don't know how those add up.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
true but we couldn't sign Frye or Amundson with those
I really think the only times you can offer a bigger contract to a returning player is if it’s:
1) an extension, which must be signed before the current contract is over – so Frye would have to play for 2 mill again next year… and there’s prob some rule on that too, like that the only extendible contracts are long-term ones. I can’t see the Suns being allowed to “extend” Fryes or Lous contract because they were so small and short
2) a Bird-rights situation – one player with the same team for X years (at least 5). So, the Suns could re-sign Amare to anything up to the Max and go way over the cap to do it, but I really don’t think they’re allowed the same with Channing or Lou because they haven’t been with the Suns long enough.
I’ll have to look at the CBA for more specifics, I think.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
Thanks a bunch - you brought clarity to a very confusing situation.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
actually, I did a writeup under a fanpost if you want more detail
I got the answers I mentioned, and it should be even clearer afterward.
Twitter: @dahking
Too late to change the stupid twitter name. Did it as a joke to my teenager, but now I'm hooked on the news-feed aspect of twitter.
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