Does The Suns' Depth Make Up For The Lack Of Star Power?
Much of what is occurring within the Phoenix Suns organization, and, most importantly, in the mind of Robert Sarver, is not necessarily clear. Yet one thing is certain at this point: we all have an opinion on the recent draft and transactions that have left the squad with Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick, Hedo Turkoglu, Channing Frye (re-signed), and Gani Lawal.
The Suns have signed free agents to reasonable deals, accepted reasonable contracts, and gained reasonable talent. Not huge talent, not huge, ugly, potentially organizationally crippling contracts. Regardless of whether we like these deals or not, we must admit that the Suns have increased their depth at nearly every position. And depth is a good thing. Depth gives a team options. Depth keeps a team afloat when the injury bug bites. Depth allows for adjustment and change. Depth allows for opportunity. Depth allows for competitive advantages, like further transactions that can improve the team.
Many of the Planet Orange brethren were expecting Amare to stay. Many of us were hoping for a big signing to replace Amare Stoudemire. Well, people, I seriously doubt it's going to happen right now. So, with the exception of the additions of one or two guys, or if something comes from way out of left field, what you see is most likely what you're going to get come late October.
No doubt we feel a bit uncomfortable with a roster of guys who do some things really well but other things not so well. It would certainly make us all feel at ease to have an All-Star beast in the lineup. We are all secure with that feeling and all that comes with it: sexy posterizations, a crunch time performer, a man to say all the right things when the team struggles, the pillar of leadership and talent the rest of the squad can lean on when need be. And the only thing better than one big name to relieve our feelings are two or three other big names in the lineup, like the Miami Heat.
Yep, plenty of talent in Miami, but with great talent comes great expectations, huge, potentially franchise crippling contracts, and a big target sign on your back. If you're an NBA team with any competitive fire, you want a piece of the Heat. You want to take them out, and then you want to thump your chest on ESPN in front of millions and say you were the one who broke their hearts.
Sorry, things got a little away from me there. I digress...
The Suns depth going into the 2010-11 season thus far is excellent. But is it enough to make up for the lack of bona fide stars? There really is no big two or three for the Suns, but there is a nice, flexible mix of both veteran and young talent who know how to play the game.
The Rotation
The Suns depth allows them (and will require them) to mix and match. Hedo Turkoglu, while not the best choice as a complete PF, offers options at multiple positions. He's probably best used as a point SF. Turkoglu can slide to the 3 while Grant Hill rests and Channing Frye and Robin Lopez can be paired next to him for some excellent front court length. Add in slashers like J-Rich, Goran Dragic, and or newly acquired Josh Childress, and the Suns could put some very potent lineup combinations together. Alternately, Josh Childress provides another back-up to Hill should he find himself hurting or in need of a breather. J-Chill also adds more dimensions at the backup two than Leandro Barbosa. The goal here is to go 10 deep, and the Suns can certainly do that.
Bench Play
The addition of Childress to the bench rotation adds another potent perimeter defender and athletic slasher to an already quality second unit that includes Jared Dudley, Goran Dragic, and Channing Frye. Hakim Warrick is slated as the backup 4, but is not known for his ability to defend or pick up many boards. Still, he is a quick and athletic finisher who just may find his niche in the Suns system. If he is the Amundson replacement, picking up Lou's 4 and 4 a game shouldn't be difficult. But doing the intangibles and all the things Lou did that didn't show up in the boxscore remains to be seen.
If Earl Clark can find it, the Suns will have yet another option at the 3 or 4 with athleticism and length to help defend the bigs of the league.The two second rounders, Gani Lawal and Dwayne Collins, along with Warrick, will also have a shot to pick up or share the Amundson "dirt worker" role in the second unit. But it's too early to tell how these rooks will progress through training camp, and Clark was reportedly rusty and out of shape in the Summer League.
Channing Frye was re-signed, and quickly, for a reason. He's the back-up 5 who stretches the floor with his range (blah blah, yeah... we've heard it), but has played the 4 in the past and provides another option should Turkoglu or Warrick struggle there. Not a an All-Star option, but an option nonetheless.
Starters
The probable starting five includes Lopez, Turkoglu and Hill as a front line, with Nash and Jason Richardson in the back court. Turkoglu will see time at three positions and can run the s&r, which will help get Nash off the ball and turn him into more of a scoring threat. When the defense focuses on Nash, the lanes will open up for both J-Rich and Hill to slash to the rim. This flexibility could see Nash increase his scoring totals to help make up for the loss of Amare's 23 ppg while taking the pressure off of him to constantly create every time down the floor.
Reality
The most glaring defect the Suns face in the coming season is a familiar one: front court size. The only true inside presence the Suns have at the moment is Robin Lopez. Both skeptics and realists alike don't think Turkoglu can repalce Amare's production. And it is true: he alone cannot. But it isn't as if the Suns haven't had to deal with this situation before. Everyone will need to hit the boards, and as we witnessed last season, everyone is willing to contribute. Without an Amare or other big contributor, the Suns are once again forced to scrap and claw on every play for every board and loose ball. As Channing Frye put it, "we won't be able to cruise through the season." True, but we on Planet ORNG are used to that.
Keep in mind, there are new players, which creates new chemistry, new roles, and inevitably, new confusion. The ever-present roller coaster ride Alvin Gentry referred to all of last season hasn't changed. Get ready for it again come 2010-11, Bright Siders!
208 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Great Write
I agree they are an extremely versatile team and extremely deep. Gentry will have alot of options to work with. I’m holding all hope that Lopez is going to become a mad rebounding shot blocking machine. Playing on team USA will Be HUGE for him.
Unless Lawal can establish his game quickly, we still need a more traditional PF on our roster.
Bring Josh Smith to PHX campaign.
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
I agree about Lopez
All the players who played for Colangelo last time came into the season with renewed fire and determination. Lopez should benefit greatly from it. Not to mention he’ll get to bang with his Bro and that should fire him up.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Open the wardrobe is not yet found love after another the right clothes?
So, also waiting for? Immediate action bar!
Welcome to { http://www.smalltrade.net } sure you will find what you need.
Moreover, the company has a good reputation,product quality standards,
at reasonable prices. Over the years, has been well received by overseas
friends for their support. Therefore, please rest assured purchase.
welcome to :==== http://www.smalltrade.net ===
free shipping
competitive price
any size available
accept the paypal
Jame shoes $40
Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33
Jordan Spizike shoes $35
Jordan 2010 shoes $40
air max 2010,2009 shoes $37
Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35
Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&g) $35
Tshirts (ed hardy,lacoste) $16
AF tshirt $25
Jean(True Religion,VERSACE,coogi) $30
Sunglasses(Oakey,coach,gucci,Armaini) $16
New era cap $15
FREE sHIPPING
== http://www.smalltrade.net =
` ╰—┘ 。 ┅★`_、
│\__╭╭╭╭╭__/│
│ │
│ │
│ ● ● │
│≡ o ≡│
│ │
╰——┬O◤▽◥O┬——╯
| o |
|╭---╮| ┌┬┬┬┐
╞╧╧╧╧══╧╧╧╧╧╧╧╧╡
by itkonlyyou186 on Jul 19, 2010 8:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Smith would fit right in
A bit of a headcase, but we have a strong coach and a bunch of character guys that would keep him in place.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Bold Prediction
Lawal will be playing 25 mpg by seasons end filling the same role and Lou did this year…
my reasoning…
1) he was talked about as a potential lottery pick last season
2) he will only adjust to the nba game quicker because he had to take a backseat to favors this year and just play his role
3) that extra year of seasoning can only help nba-readyness
4) rebounding in college strongly correlates to rebounding in the nba
I really wish Sarver didn't sign warrick, it makes me uncomfortable about Clark's future; Depth is good
but trying to figure out how to use it is way more important than having it. The cavs had like 5 PF/C’s but failed to use them properly; relying on Shaq to guard KG when Hickson gave them trouble during the regular season.
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
Warrick's not really competiting with Clark
Warrick’s a 4, Clark’s mainly a 3. It’s Turkoglu and Childress that put the squeeze on Clark. Dudley’s gonna have to shift to backup shooting guard in lieu of Barbosa, or Clark’s gonna have to be a four. Otherwise, one of those two guys are gone.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I know but warrick can play pf liek clark can, but tehy are both better at the sf; in short, it worries me that Sarver signed a guy that
has the same “problem” as Clark. I think Sarv signed Hakim to be an added piece in a trade
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
Clark's problem isn't that he's a tweener, it's that he can't figure out how to play the game of basketball at a professional level
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Sounds like someone needs to write
a post about Warrick to sway the doubters and haters.
I’m a big Warrick fan. He’ll be amazing here in Phoenix – just you wait.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
He's as tall as Amare...
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
size doesn't mean anything..
Look at the 6’10 guys who are natural small forwards..Rashard Lewis and our very own Hedo Turkoglu
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
She was lying.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
He was with Kerr around
Now, who knows. First he needs to get his head on straight.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Really?
It sounds to me like you really haven’t seen Warrick play.
I like Earl Clark too – but Warrick has proven his IQ and finishing ability at the NBA level. Clark hasn’t come close yet.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Plus Warrick is still young...
really you should read into Warrick. He is a good pick-up.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I've done some research on warrick, I know who he is, but in all honestly
I care more about Clark than Warrick b/c he was our draft pick
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
All of this is true
I also think Warrick will surprise a lot of people! Earl has a higher ceiling, but Warrick can already produce. I think he will have a career year with the Suns; especially with Nash, Dragic, and Turkoglu feeding him the rock!
I agree with you ... I like Warrick a lot
He’s been misused a lot throughout his career. Still can’t see him doing more than 15 ppg, 8 rpg, but I can see him hitting that average fairly easily.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I can agree with that tho', Memphis spurned him b/c they thought him to be too much like rudy gay,
and the bulls didn’t care about him, I don’t know what his story was in Milwaukee.
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
is 15 and 8 bad for a backup?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
That'd be better than JJ hickson who is a starter; that'd be Bynum status
off the bench
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
I bet he could do that here
with either Nash or Dragic (Hedo – J-Chill – etc. ) feeding him
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Andrew Bynum plays with Kobe Bryant and Gasol an he averages those kind of numbers,
warrick will be a very serviceable back-up, but 15 and 8 are solid for a starter
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
Like i said -
I’m not expecting that – but I wouldn’t be surprised -
The dude’s nickname is "the Helicopter man’
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
yeah those would be my averages assuming he plays 30-35 mpg
I think they’re pretty damn good numbers for a starter, as well.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
You think he'll get that many minutes, with all of the depth at the forward positions?
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
I think it will vary night to night
depending on match—ups, who’s hot who’s cold, etc. more than just injuries
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
right
so what you’re saying is that, on a night where Warrick starts, we can probably get 15 and 8 on 30-34 minutes. That’s a good thing.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
everyone's anxious for Clark
but to say his potential is greater than Warrick’s whole arsenal is a bit rash.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I guess you are right, I'm going to be the first person to defend clark from a trade
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
No ... but that's why i'd make him the starter and play him starter's minutes
He’s our best option at PF. Turk should be the starting 3, Grant should come off the bench, I think.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
and Grant, Dudley and Childress share
30-35 bench minutes a night?
Too few for them. That’s why Turkey will play at least half the game in the PF position on the floor
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Dudley or Childress would be doing mainly backup 2
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
but that's too few minutes for each of them
way too few
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Well that's the price paid for so much depth
As the roster stands, there’s no way to correctly distribute the minutes, which is why I think one of our small forward is on their way out.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
true
I am afraid it is dudley… both chil and turk are just brought in so who is left? hill most propapbly not… would be sad to see duds go..
sarver said yesterday
that Duds and Chill were the future once Hill retires
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Well then...
They brought in JChill to back up SG, we have Hedo, Hill, Dudz, and Warrick all needing minutes…Unless the suns are going to go like this, the only other option is JRich…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
It's a good thought too..
We all know Grant has grven uis his heart and soul here, but with his advancing age (even though he can still play will), I think it would be best for him to be more of a mentor to the younger guys in terms of almost being a another bench coach..Let Grant get 10-15 minutes a game, in which he demonstrates how the game show be played.
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
but if he still performs like last year
you can’t justify giving him 10-15 bench minutes. He was a KEY player for a WCF team last year.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Somehting has to give with this rotation...
JChill is just not going to get enough minutes just being the back-up 2…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Not gonna happen
at least not this year. Grant has played well enough to start. And, at his age, its easier to start and be in the rhythm of the game, rather than come off the bench and try to create a rhythm with the second unit.
Plus, I’m pretty sure the Suns promised him he’d start while playing here…
I don't think it's about a promise -
I think that Grant needs to start the game, or he’s not warm enough when he comes off the bench. Not a bad concession when you’re 38 years old.
I know everybody wants to see the new guys play, but don’t take Grant for granted (pun intended). Just because he’s been around a while, we tend to buy into the conventional wisdom that he’s old. He’s not – he’s a very young 38, always goes at top speed is effective at defense, rebounding, scoring, and taking charges. High, high BBIQ.
Also, give Gentry credit. It’s not like each player has to wear a sign on his back saying “I’m the PF right now” – Gentry is very effective at staged substitutions, where Goran may play a few minutes at SG before switching to PG, or Dudley may come in for Richardson, and then slide over to Grant’s position after a few minutes. It isn’t as locked down as traditional roles when you’re on the Suns.
Some players will suffer for minutes – but instead of hurting Clark, this will ultimately help him. Sure, he needs minutes, but he needs to learn, too, and he will learn from Hedo and JChill, as well as from Grant and Steve.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Well put
You’re right about being warmed up (I tried to allude to that fact). But I thought I remembered hearing somewhere a quote from him saying that he is basically guaranteed the starter spot, barring health problems, and that was a main factor for signing/extending with the Suns. I don’t have a link for it, though, so it could be bogus (or erroneous memory on my part).
Funny, though, that you are pretty much the only one that comments on my posts so far… Haha. I’m still new on this board — got too bored with the wasteland that the ESPN boards have turned into. We’ll be friends in no time :)
don't give haremoor too much credit
he posts on everyone’s comments. :)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I love the Warrick signing when I look at it by itself.
For the price we brought him in at, he could end up being a huge bargain as his chances of having a breakout season here are pretty favorable.
If he flops, we can slide other players over and it’s not much of a hit on the budget.
I just get annoyed that in hindsight, Lou could have been resigned for cheaper.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
but you have to look big picture
Lou fits better than Warrick, by themselves. however, we need scoring/finishing which Lou cannot do, and Lawal/Collins can be the next Lou. So, in context Warrick/Lawal > Lou/Jarron Collins
same with LB/Turkey trade. Once Childress came on board, there was no spot for LB. So you take talent where you can, and Turkey has talent.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Lou could finish... sometimes
only when Dragic is throwing halfcourt reverse alley-oops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEWjwwhZMI0
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I see your point
But speaking in terms of the 2nd unit, I don’t think it needed additional scoring with Frye and Goran (it wouldn’t be fair to bring up Childress, as Warrick was signed first). Lou was needed to be the feisty dirty-work player to offset Channing, his offensive-minded frontcourt counterpart.
I like Lou alongside Channing more than Warrick. That’s not a knock on Warrick.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I think we need to see the guy play
We’ve heard from “reliable sources” all over about Turkoglu and Warrick, and reviews are all over the board.
There are haters and lovers and everything in between. I’m not real worried about Warrick, but the way some people talk about Turkoglu is that he is the antichrist….The more I read about him from Gentry and other professionals is that he’s going to open up a lot of the offense and give the squad new opportunities that weren’t there before…
I think making up Amare’s 23 ppg will become much easier than I first imagined, especially with plans to make Nash more into a scorer.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
so if we can make up Amare's 23 pts
then the next big make-up is 9 rebounds in 34 minutes of play. That’s doable too, I think.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
especially with 'gang rebounding'
being a proven philosophy and drilled and drilled into the team from the start of training camp
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I agree totally about Warrick....
I posted about that shortly after we signed him and still believe that.
yeah man...
being from milwaukee and seeing him play in person last year i will tell you that your in trouble if he is your starter… whoever said he was Amare-Lite was spot on….
J Burning
Yes….The hope was that he’d be ready to roll this season….Summer League has shown the opposite. Let’s hope he can pull it together in training camp…And quick.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
well, Lopez and Dragic were panned
for their summer league too
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
They both kind of turned it up and righted the ship
at the end of the summer league last year…
Clark has one game now…
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
The most disturbing thing
about Clark this Summer for me has been what he has been saying.
I haven’t seen him play, but crap man, close your mouth for now.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
All indications are that he still has the support of the Suns' FO
But I would not be shocked if they sour on him really quickly.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions
especially if they get a nice offer
from another team that wants him
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
But I'd like to think that Sarver isn't that stupid to make that idiotic trade that the warriors made.
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
idiotic?
Randolph for David Lee is the craziest thing I’ve seen in the last few years. Randolph was having a lot of issues with the Warriors organization…
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I still don't thinkk the trade makes much sense, IMO. The Warriors have udoh, andris
and wright, making lee pointless? The warriors got rid of turiaf and azuibuike just to get another power forward in their log-jam at the pf position.
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
They just sold their team...
I’m sure they are planning on a lot more moves to come.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Of course they're not done dealing -
Nor is MN, Sac, and hopefully, Atlanta.
That’s what we’re waiting for!
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Warriors need stars,
they have enough roleplayers/bench warmers.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
especially since it was a previous regime's pick...
now that Babby and his gang will be coming on board…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Lopez faded. Finished one game with less than 3 pts/rebs each
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Yes, was going to point this out.
Lopez started Summer League with a monster game and then got worse as the week went on, finishing up by getting beasted (OK, not beasted, but definitely owned) by Hasheem Thabeet… who had looked awful all week.
SL is a rough indicator at best, but I think it’s safe to say it’s better to have a good Summer League than not in the eyes of fans.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
As I see it
Warrick and Childress are on long-term deals for a reason — that reason being the guys ahead of them will not likely be here forever. I’m hopeful that they can get integrated this upcoming season (I actually like both signings), but I’m anticipating a greater increase in them for after this upcoming season… And that rationale makes me even more okay with the signings!
he did seem to do the warrick signing on impulse...
after getting turkoglu he isn’t as good of a fit anymore… can’t have a ton of weak ass rebounders on the team…
Too many small forwards ...
I think some combination of J-Rich’s expiring and either Earl Clark or Jared Dudley will be used by the Suns to find a more legit power forward. Solves the log-jam at the 3, allows Childress to move in as a starting 2 instead of paying $7m/year for a backup, and gives us the best option for the most talent in return.
Not sure if I said this on BSOTS, but if I were Gentry, my starting line-up would be Nash, Richardson, Turkoglu, Warrick, and Lopez. Yeah, Grant’s not great off the bench, but Turk’s gonna give more production as a starter than Hill will.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
that might be it by the end of the year
but to start it off, I’d be surprised if a healthy Hill was not in the starting lineup
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Sure we have too many small fowards
but that is the position we were lacking last year. Sure it’s deep, but you can’t find a great starter out of that bunch.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Yeah, for 6 weeks, it was "We need 3's!!!" Now, we have too many.
So the solution is to trade away our starting 2 to get a 4.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
You can't
but most are role players/six men
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
thats your opinion
Hill and Turkoglu – longtime successful starters
Duds and Chill – deserve to start, but haven’t yet
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Turkoglu is the only starter
Hill is old now, he should be a role player, and Dudley and Childress seem like role players to me.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
I like that starting line-up...
But it makes our subs pasty soft in the middle…Maybe if Lawal is ready , we could try it…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
that would be interesting...
i’d go with Nash, Chilly, Turkoglu, Warrick, Lopez
I’d like a good player to pair with Dragic when he comes in with the bench players so J-Rich is the 6th man… plus Chillys good rebounding for his size might offset the horrible rebounding of Turk and Warrick…
Good question Wil
Here a few of my opininions:
Lack of Superstars: I think we’ve dealt with this issue respectably before. In fact – even with Amare here he wasn’t considered a ‘Superstar’ as much as he was considered an ‘All-star’. There’s a difference… and if you really look at our team – we DO have Steve Nash (Superstar), Jason Richardson (borderline All-Star), and Taylor Griffin. I think the Suns have always known that the lack the star-power necessary and thus they have always tried to burn the ‘teamwork>selfish star’ oil. Their focus on teamwork and chemistry compensates greatly for a lack of talent.
To me -deeper is better. This year is different from any year in PHX history – we have the talent and depth to have 10 players legitimately and regularly score double-digits. We never expected that from Lou – Jarron Collins – or even Dragic or Lopez. But now the story is different, RoLo and Dragic can and should do it regularly and Warrick & Childress will produce 100% more offensively and possibly defensively as Collins and Lou. Combine that ish with chemistry and it’s a potent concoction.
Defensive Liabilities Team: One thing I heard and that I’m sure can and will work for us defensively this year is implementing ‘the girly zone’ as an actual defensive scheme instead of just as a last resort – that has proven to be effective for us against superior size, and now we have some better perimeter defenders to rotate and close out better on shooters. This for me is something to watch for.
I’ll stop now so I don’t get TL;DR’ed
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
agreed
and I caught you :
we DO have Steve Nash (Superstar), Jason Richardson (borderline All-Star), and Taylor Griffin.
funny stuff
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions
You have to look at the teams that have won the championship in the last ten years
all had a superstar, except for the Pistons, who had 4 all-stars.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
I think we'll be fine.
The concerns about our defense come a long way now. We had Amare, a beast, who never rebounded well or defended well. Our concern to replace him should be on the offense, and we’ve shown that we are capable of doing that and winning without him.
I am truly excited about Childress, but I’m really waiting on Turk’s attitude to get a opinion. I believe we’ll be fine.
The Suns are tough!
kinda..
the Suns have a few unique things going for them:
- Steve Nash. even at 36 he’s still the best pg in the league at doing the things pg’s are supposed to do. Borderline top 25 all-time player, and the prototype/role model for a new generation of point guards.
- A fully functional second unit. This is what will allow us to win games, and will propel us deep into the playoffs
- Grant Hill.. NBA co-ROY, and the guy who should have been the next Jordan, but whose wheels fell off. Still capable.
what we lack is size, defense and rebounding, especially the latter. you just can’t win a title unless you deny the opposition second chances, and maximize your own.
However, the key is going to be our second unit, which imho could be the starting 5, or close to it, for a number of the more lowly teams in the NBA. At the risk of repeating myself, it’s the ability of this second unit to turn up the intensity, or give the opposition a completely different look that will allow us to overcome many good teams.
We already know how good our starting 5 is, even with Warrick in place, but if the 2nd unit can raise it’s average level of play, and become more consistent from last year (and, imho, if the 2nd unit had played just a little better during the Laker series, we’d have won the title this year.. It was that close), then we can hang with anyone including the new Miami Heat.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 15, 2010 2:44 PM MDT reply actions
I look at it like this
2009-2010 starting 5 > 2010-2011 starting 5
2010-2011 bench > 2009-2010 bench
so,
2010-2011 Phoenix Suns = 2009-2010 Phoenix Suns
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
since the Suns bench plays almost the same minutes as the starters
at least, as of the playoffs.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I don't know
During a lot of the playoffs – teams were doubling down and throwing at Amare almost to make him a non-factor at times – when that happened J-Rich was our number 1 scoring option and that worked great. If we have threats once again from every position we will still spread the floor just as we did with amare. I think we have threats – no matter who we decide comprises our starting 5…
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I agree that the team is probably equal to 09-10 though
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
We'll hope our chemistry is as good as last year...
Brigning in new faces can sometimes change the dynamics just a little…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
It doesn't work that way
Starters have more impact on the game than the bench does. Multiple pretty good players don’t equal a great one, just like dating 2 women who are 5’s doesn’t equal dating a 10.
by East Bay Ray on Jul 15, 2010 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Really though,
Does it matter? To be totally honest, I’ve never seen at team assembled quite like this one. We’ve been trying to apply traditional basketball standards to the current Suns roster, and it just hasn’t been working.
I loathe the term “X-Factor,” but this entire team is made up of X-Factors. What the hell does that equal?!
I guess I’m just saying, this team will be very enjoyable and will do some crazy shit. Screw star players. Bring on the insanity.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
+1. RMason.
It amuses me to think what it would be like if Frye was a new signing, instead of an extension after a full year with the Suns. I think heads would be exploding all over this board.
Screw traditional – there’s no way we can do traditional this year as well as true ‘traditional’ teams. I like insanity, too.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
well said, my man. well said.
you can’t apply traditional thought to this team. neither could you apply it last season.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I'm not sure how much worse our new starting 5 is over our previous 5
I suspect that the difference will effectively be zero, or close to it.
Warrick certainly gives us close to the same post presence, but no mid range jumper, and less defensive rebounding and maybe a little more defense. But for the last two, the bar was set low, so it’s hard to tell.
Question is how consistent Warrick will be.. good news, I guess, is that he won’t have the same tendency to pout, the way Amare did. and I also suspect that he’ll be much more willing to do the dirty work of boxing out for Sideshow and Grant, and setting screens. Same goes for the The Turk, if he starts at the 4.
The issue is rebounding, and how we pick up the slack.. haven’t figured that one out yet.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 15, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I have watched Amare since his rookie year and I have never know him to pout...
say strange things, yes, but not pout…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
really
then what explains the 2-3 weeks of 3-4 rebs a game, before the “breakout” after the trade deadline?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Hate to nitpick, Alex,
But gauging from the Dallas game, where he was benched, the previous 2 weeks were like this:
Jan 15 Atlanta 28/14
Jan 16 Cha 19/7
Jan 18 Mem 12/9
Jan 20 NJN 27/7
Jan 22 Chi 23/5
Jan 23 GSW 15/5
Jan 25 Utah 16/5
Jan 26 Cha 12/5
Jan 28 Dal 22/1
Jan 31 Hou 36/11
Except for the Dallas game, no 3-4 rebound games in there. And after, he went on a tear. Maybe he was a little out of sorts, but hardly pouting.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
hey whatever
sure call me out. I’ll remember this…
j/k – thanks for looking it up.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Well, I figured you would do it, if it wasn't your own post.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
+1, Amare did not play 30 games last year. He put on the cruse control for those games.
How many so called “Superstars” get sat down for a fourth quarter because they where NOT playing, took the night off. You know what Charles Barkley would put on the cruse control, but would turn it in the 4th quarter to get the win.
My point is, I believe the new guys on our team are NOT going to put on the cruse control on to just make a paycheck. Watch the Knicks this year with Stat and see how they will not win more than 5-8 more games than last year.
can't wait for training camp
imagine both units playing each other everyday. It will be like playing a real game.
I'm happy with my team.
Any time I start to nitpick the Suns for maybe not being tall enough or lacking a 10 rpg player or any of that crap, I stop and think about all the Pacers, T-Wolves and Warriors fans.
Then I hug myself and sigh.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
lol, The warriors got sold for a record 450 Million; more than sarver's 401 million paid for the suns
F*ck you Rob Sarver!
Stephen Curry?
You want him to stunt Dragic’s development.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Logjam...
The team picked up extra wing talent…(childress/dudley/j-rich/hill/clark) in order to facilitate a smooth transition when they dump Jason Richardson’s contract before the deadline. Mark my words: They will pick up a semi-talented big man from a team looking to rebuild (a la N.O. Hornets-David West).
by Michael A. Xidis on Jul 15, 2010 2:55 PM MDT reply actions
hopefully not David West...
groan
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
yeah of done some reading on him
not the guy you want
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Injury prone - bad attitude?
can you confirm?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Injury prone + bad attitude + booooooring = no thanks
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Amen and amen
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Andris Biedring(warriors) or Troy Murphy(Pacers) fit the bill too...
by Michael A. Xidis on Jul 15, 2010 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions
No and eh...
Andris is softer than Amare and would get injured by Lopez in practice… I’m just saying.
Not too many options out there – it sucks.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Cleveland
Cleveland has a bunch of big guys they’de be willing to trade for peanuts…(Varejao, Jamison, Hickson) Any of those guys would help immensely on the front line (not necessarily on the Sal. Cap though)
by Michael A. Xidis on Jul 15, 2010 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Haha now everyone wants Hickson
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah his name was being tossed around
like a dirty old !@#$&*) during last year’s Amare trade orgie and no one wanted that.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm having a lot of fun
Filling in the explitive symbols with different words in my mind.
A dirty old _.
The possibilities are endless.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I know, I couldn't decide on one, so I thought I'd leave it up to you, the reader
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Varejao would be the best fit out of the three…we could call it the FRO-nt court…
by Michael A. Xidis on Jul 15, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Varejao please
Then we could throw a line-up of
Rolo

Childress

and
Jao

YOU CAN’T TELL ME THAT WOULDN’T BE SICK!
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
ok, you convinced me.
let’s do it.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
They'd have to change the rules
to include a ‘hair foul’ or ‘hair interference’ if we threw that line-up down.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
All that hair alone would terrify balder teams….I mean you could include Nash’s grease-head, we’d win games by simply distracting them with hair…
by Michael A. Xidis on Jul 15, 2010 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to make it sound
like I think Amare is really soft – because he isn’t – I just mean if we’re going to move J-Rich to get a BIG piece back, he better something bullish .. or bully-ballish
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
David West?
Hmm, I would like it, then we would have at least one all-star on this team in the next 2 years.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
he won't be an all-star again
jaxis, if all you’re looking for is flashy all-stars, then this isn’t going to be a fun year watching the Suns. even when they win 55 games.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I'm gone camping for the weekend
so peace -
Good work Wil!
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
thanks brosef.
watch out for them bears.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
We have the potential to go all the way
If everyting clicks.
I thought the important factor about depth was that players playing shorter time can concentrate more, and play with energy. That’s what happened especially for the second unit.
But usually It’s hard to click when you have so many different players coming in. However defense was simple and playmakers( well, mostly Nash) did adjust well on the offensive end, and Nash will continue to do so. Also credit Gentry for sticking the second unit together for that matter.
Our defense wasn’t so bad as most people said so,was it? What if Artest couldn’t get that rebound? We were close. Gentry continues to speak improvement in defense, and with an addition of Childress who can guard multiple positions, I believe we have a defensive stopper and another wing_rebounder which will probably improve our defense as well.
I thank Amare for all these years, but I don’t miss him because he didn’t live up to his words(only championship matters). I will miss Lou though…it’s good for him to have better contract, but he was “the energy”
But overall, much happier to have new teammates.
Obviously we don’t have the best finisher in the game now, but we are more versatile with more playmakers and a reliable 3 point shooter in every position.
When you have Nash, Hill & Gentry,
It’s worth getting on that bandwagon.
by enjoynash on Jul 15, 2010 3:23 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Why not us?
People point out that we still don’t match up with LA, but last I checked there are 28 other teams in the league and only one team (Boston) matches up well with the Lakers.
So screw em, we’ll do something completely different.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Dudley will leave if we don't trade him.
He wants a bigger market IMO.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
It's the sad truth.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
At this point...
but who knows what will happen at the……………………..trade deadline.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
It's a tweet that can be read as if Dudley doesn't know what the lineup will be.
It’s ambiguous, at best, but it has sphincters snapping shut all over BSOTS.
Because we’re DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMED!!!!!!!
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
It's logic
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions
It's premature, to say the least.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
But it's still logical to think it could be coming
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
by Justin Burning on Jul 15, 2010 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions
It's premature.
Quitsies no startsies!! Stamp it!
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Jul 15, 2010 5:25 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Wil, this post reminds me of (part of) a poem about Depth:
Is he a double, or an appendage?
The closest of them all.
And if the captain were left-handed?
He says “Less paradigmatic,”
more so, more so.
(Mónica de la Torre)
Totally Suns.
There isn't a single acceptable situation for the question "Is this game almost over yet?" Not one.
woah
that just totally blew my mind.
Im going to ask Seth to make a new position for you as poet laureate of BSOTS. We certainly need one. You could do some haiku, maybe a little iambic pentameter, and other things of that nature I do not understand.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 15, 2010 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Suns Haiku:
It’s only July
Everyone stop freaking out
…but don’t trade Dudley.
bows
There isn't a single acceptable situation for the question "Is this game almost over yet?" Not one.
by Basketball GF on Jul 15, 2010 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Meanwhile back in NY...
The New YorK Knicks
Paid too much for Am’are
D’Antoni gets fired.
These team
is set up like the SSOL Suns of the past. Here is the kicker no one remembers about that team, WE HAD NO DEPTH. We were playing seven guys, eight if we were lucky. Who knows what the SSOL Suns of the past could’ve done with a 10 man rotation….
Maybe we’ll figure that out this season. Either way, it’s going to be fun and I look forward to seeing two dynamic play makers in TURK and Nash to elevate each other’s games.
I also am anxious to see if Childress changed anything about his game from his team in Europe. We know he is athletic, we know he can defend. I want to see what else he picked up.
The Phoenix Suns...Where making average players look elite happens.
YEA!!!!!!!! Love the optimism. Lets go get a Championship now.
Just as long as we don’t trade Dudley.
Don't trade Dudley!
If I was given the decision
to become a Zombie to ensure Dudley wouldn’t be traded I would do it. I hope Dudz is a Suns lifer.
The Phoenix Suns...Where making average players look elite happens.
He says he wants to be!
Or atleast until Steve leaves.
He tweeted it.
^Sorry if thats reeeally illegibvel, Alaskaninternet effs everythingg up. Especially webpages.
Aw man, I was imagining you with a foriegn accent.
These team, I theenk…is good team.
There isn't a single acceptable situation for the question "Is this game almost over yet?" Not one.
by Basketball GF on Jul 15, 2010 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions
We made the WCF with Amar’e as our defending PF and with Channing as our defending Center. We will be fine.
Don't trade Dudley!
great Dragic interview
Me too.
Broken english has never been so charming.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I read it to my mom, about eight times.
Thank you for the link!
In Alaska, there’s no Arizona Republic, and the internets spotty.
So when I get internet, I check the comments for links to Suns interviews.
Dragic is my favoirte, so thanks for this one! (:
They are a real team
Everyone has a place, and it isn’t just 2 or 3 people trying to do everything…
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
Odd Problems
The piece that will be difficult fit is Hill — he’s great, but he becomes less necessary on a team that has Turk at the 4 and doesn’t fit the ethos of the 2nd unit all that well, as a unit with him, Childress and Warrick wouldn’t be a good 3 point shooting team. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him moved, although I’d be sad to see him go (if he is moved, i think orlando is a possibility, with a hill plus a salary fill for gortat something the team would look into).
So, here are 3 predictions.
1. Robin Lopez has an amazing season statistically. He’s going to be the primary roll man and the screen roll and he’s going to get a lot of points.
2. We’re not going to have the 5 for 5 swaps that we did last year. I don’t think the team breaks down the same way, and I think the playoff rotation, where Hill came off early and then played a lot with the 2nd unit may be used more. Also, lineups with Frye at the 4 and Turk at the 3, which, with Nash and Richardson, may be the best 3-point shooting lineup in NBA history.
3. Nash is going to play many fewer minutes this season, with an average right around 30 or even lower. There are lot of alternative ball handlers (dragic, hill, turk) so even when he does play, the offense runs entirely through nash thing is going to be an option, rather than the usual. I think the subtext of all of the moves is that the team is going to make a real effort to save Nash’s legs even more than it did last season.
nice observations
regarding Hill, I think it will take a lot to move him. He’s just SO valuable as a presence on the team.
regarding the predictions, agree with #1 on a per-minute basis, #2 is likely true but I would miss the 5-for-5 swap thing, and #3 is the most likely of all.
nice!
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Hill will start and play 20-30 minutes a night
The guy i wonder about is Dudley. I don’t see where he fits in the rotation at this point.
Free PS3
Enter to win a free PS3 signed by Amare
facebook.com/amarestoudemire

by 



















