Ok there have been a bunch of JRich trades, but I think this one is actually realistic
by MJ5 on Jul 19, 2010 1:28 AM MST
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PrintJRich for Antawn jamison. I think this is a great deal for both teams and I will tell you why.
Good for Cavs because:
-JJ Hickson is the big man for the future, Jamison was taking minutes away from him. He becomes the starter and is given the chance to show what he can do and have a breakout year.
-Since the Cavs are rebuilding, there isn't room for a 34 year old making 13 million for 2 more years. Richardson's contract is expiring next season giving the Cavs cap space and flexibility to build a contender.
Good for Suns because:
- This western conference division is stacked. If the Suns want to remain a competitive team, they need a consistent low post presence. This could be the Suns last chance to win a championship. By adding Jamison they get one of the most skilled post scores in the NBA and a fantastic rebounder. They also get a very hard worker, veteran leader, and locker room presence. The Suns get a consistent 18 pts and 8 rebound guy.
- Jamison is versatille and I believe would be a good fit with Lopez. They form a great rebounding tandem. Also both can shoot mid range(Jamison can shoot 3s)and score inside.
- After this season JRich is gonna want to get paid. He will probably be overpriced and the Suns won't want to overpay him. Theres a good chance they'd let him walk. So instead of getting nothing for him they get Jamison for 2 more years. The CBA is looming and instead of paying Richardson big money and paying for it, they get a quality big and don't get affected by CBA since by the time its in full force his contract will be expiring.
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i thought about this trade to,
but we can snag him without giving up our best player, Cavs would trade him for anything since there isnt much need in him.
i’d be pleased with a line-up of,
pg.Nash
sg.Richardson
sf.Turk
pf. Jamison
c.Lopez
cant say that doesnt sound good or even western confernce finals again.
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 AM MST reply actions
let me rephrase that
our BEST scorer.
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 1:43 AM MST reply actions
I like Jamison.
Except for these points:
1. He’s 34.
2. He’s getting paid $13mil this upcoming season.
3. He’s getting paid $15mil the season after that.
4. He’s got one of the most unconventional shooting styles of big men currently in the league.
5. Aside from one year (his one year in Dallas, with Nash mind you), he hasn’t shot above 50%. That’s simply too low for a PF taking 15+ shots per game.
6. He’s 34.
7. See points 2 and 3. Just for kicks.
I do like him, though. He’s a great guy and one of those players you’ll always pull for. I just don’t want to pull for him as a part of the Suns.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
I don't see him putting a team over the top
hes not a bad option. Just not a great one either.
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Decent
His age isn’t too scary, since he’s still pumping out 36 minutes a game regularly and this would only be a 2 year contract.
However, it is a bit pricey, and in a year we’d be in the same position thinking about moving a large expiring contract.
Not sure how Cleveland is going to proceed. They can’t dump and rebuild, because Dan Gilbert all but swore he wouldn’t. However, trying to compete with their lineup is foolish.
I’d see them moving Jamison, but moving him for young talent and/or good draft picks, in order to save face and allow the Cavs to pretend that they aren’t hitting the self-destruct button. We’ll have to see how stubborn Gilbert is, and whether or not he’s prepared to eat his words.
I think Gilbert will come to his senses
and figure our rebuilding is the only option. Building a team around Mo Williams or Jamison, who have already proven they are not legitimate #2 guys on the team just seems foolish. But it’ll be a long rebuilding period for them, unless they find a good way to ship away those contracts.I’m guessing Knicks will take their playoff spot next season.
'Tawn
Is one of the most successful tweeners in the league… but a tweener nonetheless and an expensive one at that.
We have enough combo forwards, and he proved after his move to CLE that he isn’t the kind of player that instantly makes a team better.
Pass.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Well he never made the Wizards any better either, sure injuries and Arenas Bang Bang bogged them down but a combo of Butler, Arenas and Jamison should made atleast some dent in the East.
Slumdog Millionaire without the million.
That trio was good for 5th in a weak East
and that was 4 years ago. ‘Tawn hasn’t gotten taller in the interim, or better.
We need a guy who can finish at the rim, and that isn’t Antawn.
so whose capable of doing so?
I like Okafor, and since we have nash here i believe he’d easily be a 20-10 guy no doubt about it, but i dont think we’d have to give away Rich since we still have part of the TPE still open, throw in maybe idk Hakim and a couple of draft picks. Lets open our eyes and notice it probably wont get any better then what we have, no PF’s are demanding trades nor will they be at the DeadLine so why wait instead of adding him now to make it mesh. Him and Lopez would bang the boards! then i could see us giving LA something to have nightmares about. i love his defensive presents too. Lets all remember the beautiful Nash Effect ( ;
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM MST reply actions
Okafor couldn't score a lot with Chris Paul and Darren Collison
as his PGs.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jul 19, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
That because he is not brought there to score.
He is not the focus of there offense just like the one he replaced(Chandler). Okafor could easily produce 10 to 15 points. Last season we also saw the potential in Robin to contribute offensively and I think the Suns could also squeeze out some 10 to 15 from him.
Btw, Paul and Collison are great but Nash is still the most creative PG.
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
by Spit_Fire on Jul 19, 2010 1:54 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I like Okafor enough,
But next to Lopez he would be redundant. Not a good fit for this system.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I think Lopez could play 4
He has the midrange jumper, hits free throws, finishes at the basket, rebounds, and runs the floor pretty well.
I hear like your idea Mac Doogal
Even though RMason thinks it is redundant, I still think it should be better than having Hedo and Turk at the 4. We already have some help for Nash in Goran. Why not for Robin? Last time I checked, Robin’s not yet at Dwight Howard defensive level to leave him alone in the paint and I don’t see it hurting our chance of winning games and getting to the playoffs.
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
Oh man, with Okafor we'd have terrible offensive spacing and barely any frontcourt scoring
but with Lopez-Okafor as starting 4-5 we’d have one of the best defensive frontcourts in the league.
I responded to this on another thread too
neither Lopez nor Okafor has the skillset of a 4. The Clippers tried to start 2 very good centers last yr at the 4/5 and failed miserably. One was a former DPOY (Camby) and the other an All-Star.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I'm not advocating okafor btw
we all saw with shaq how poor spacing can disrupt nash’s game, compared to frye
I understand that,
but chris paul and collison aren’t steve nash nor will they ever be. Nash could make a crippled guy in a wheel chair look all star potential so why not give it a chance? think about it if we want nash to get a ring we have to make a solid move right now or he’ll just be another stockton along with kidd. i could see how okafor would thrive in our system and since he’s got quick feet the pick’ n roll wont be as pretty but it’ll be effective. just think of our team with all the talent not to mention our sweet bench. i also thought we were looking for a guy to do the dirty work not to be a scoring force. if not him than what are your guy’s thoughts on NENE?
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 12:09 PM MST reply actions
Nene is sooooooo out of reach.
The Nuggets would never give him away, at least not for a SG. Anyway, both Nene and Okafor are centers. We don’t need centers, we have Lopez and Frye (of course we could use a backup veteran like Collins, but you get me). If anything, we need a true PF.
Actually Nene played a lot of Power Forward...it was his prefereed position
Up until the point Camby was given away to the Clips…Since then he has manned the pivot exclusively…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Chris Paul is better than Nash
Chris Paul career avg, 19.3 points 10 assists
Steve Nash career avg 14.6 points 8.3 assists
Nash career high scoring season is less than Paul’s career average
Paul better asissts average in 07/08, 08/09, and average 0.3 less assists last year in a down injury plagued season.
Okafor’s production spike, assuming he would have one in Phoenix, would have nothing to do with Nash being better or more creative than Paul. Healthy Chris Paul=best point guard in the NBA. I love Nash but that’s the reality.
Your numbers include years where Nash played backup.
If we were to take the last five years of Nash’s career which is all five of Paul’s career and happens to be the same five years, (and ignore the fact that Nash is eleven years older than Paul) we get:
Data:
Chris Paul 5 year career avg, 19.2 points 10.0 assists in 37.4 minutes per game
which comes to .513 points per minute on – 47% FG – 35% 3P – 85% FT
and .267 assists per minute
Steve Nash 5 year career avg. 17.3 points 10.8 assists in 34.3 minutes per game
which comes to .504 points per minute on – 51% FG – 45% 3P – 92% FT
and .314 assists per minute
Conclusion:
Chris Paul 1.8% more scoring (on more shots taken)
Steve Nash 15.0% most assists, 4% better FG, 10% better 3P, 7% better FT
Nash is a more efficient (better) scorer. Nash hands out more assists. Nash won two MVP titles.
Steve Nash = Best point guard in the NBA. I love Chris Paul but that’s the reality.
not that I don't love Nash more than my own children, but if we're talking reality...
CP3 also averages 2 more steals (!!), 2 more rebounds and 1 less turnover. Nash gets the nod in scoring efficiency and passing—he’s an all-time best in those categories—but Paul has a pretty big advantage in defense and rebounding, and is the better all-around player while not trailing by far in the scoring and passing.
Put it another way. Nash played backup because he hadn’t put it all together yet for the first part of his career. CP3 has been awesome out of the gate, and if he’s lucky enough to have Nash’s longevity he’ll likely be considered the better PG over the course of their careers.
by JeHa on Jul 19, 2010 11:55 PM MST up reply actions
Less turnovers is easy when you're shooting instead of passing
But you’re right, Chris Paul is a better defender, and a generally outstanding and complete player.
However, defense isn’t my highest priority when looking for a point guard. I prioritize shooting efficiency, movement and passing skill, basketball IQ, the ability to create outside of a set play and the talent to improvise when a play breaks down.
Chris Paul is quite good at those things too, I just think Nash is better.
One thing to remember, Nash drafted to Phoenix to a chorus of boos and had almost no play time behind Kevin Johnson and then Jason Kidd. When he went to the Mavs, the team was awful until 2001, right about when he’s numbers started to improve, but he really took off when D’Antoni let him run an offense.
Chris Paul drafted to NO 4th overall, was immediately treated like royalty (and since earned it), and started every game he played with New Orleans.
Nash played backup
because the starter was an in-his-prime Jason Kidd, and they had sometimes-All-Star Kevin Johnson off the bench.
Bryon Scott said he wants Jamison at the SF or as a 6th man.
C – Varejao
PF – Hickson
SF – Jamison
SG – Parker
PG – Williams
Not that bad…
We need a true PF!
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
We need Hickson.
Bryon Scott knows what he’s doing. Mike Brown, not so much. His team only managed 60 wins because LeBron carried them in the regular season AND the playoffs. I remember Brown rested him for like the last 10 games of the regular season, they were like 2-8 or something. That team was mediocre and winning a championship with that team would’ve been VERY difficult. Bryon Scott improves their chances of succeeding but they are in the West so it’s possible.
Anyways, we would very much like JJ Hickson. He’s one of the few bright spots on that team. If Cleveland has lacked anything ever since LeBron was drafted, it’s a real SG. That’s why they made a stronger push for Iguodala than they did for Jamison. Even without LeBron, they might consider Jamison. I’d only do it though if Hickson came in the deal.
In Nash I Trust!
Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
I mean they're in the East and so making the playoffs isn't impossible.
In Nash I Trust!
Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
Goddamn it....
They’re in the East. They COULD make the playoffs. Without LeBron, they might still consider Richardson because they lack a real shooting guard.
In Nash I Trust!
Steve Nash DOES play defense, foo!
I agree, I really like Hickson.
Perhaps JRich for Hickson and cap relief?
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
we already went down the Hickson road a couple months ago
let Hickson go, or any starting PF on a rookie contract who is currently way overplaying his paycheck. Those guys are not available for what they could return (under the salary cap rules).
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
haha,
whats a solid pf? there are none on the market, i dont want josh smith if we have to give up Rich, way to effecient in the playoffs, theres maybe one way i’d do it and that is sending him to Detroit for RIP and Charlie, maybe even than i’ll debate it. Rip can play in the playoffs and CV is sorta solid?
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 4:40 PM MST reply actions
You don’t want to give up Jason Richardson for Josh Smith because he’s not a solid power forward, but you’d trade Jason Richardson for Richard Hamilton and Charlie Villanueva?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28rpxhj
That trade technically doesn’t work due to salary cap issues.
yeah?
isnt Hamilton FA after this year? he still provides a solid scoring punch replacing what we had with Rich and CV is just a piece that would average 15-10 maybe? basically the same thing josh smith would do without the horrendous shooting touch, smith isnt an option on offence so whats the point of playing with the suns? CV has smooth hands around the rim and a decent jumper and last time i checked he wasnt half that bad on the other end? im not saying he is a bad player or anything but with no offence our suns team will be very uhhhh “blank” or we can make a gamble trade and take back greg monroe along with rip to free up detriots cap space problem.
by Jiffy_Mac'_Doogal. on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM MST reply actions
dude
you can’t possibly be comparing CV to Josh Smith favorably. Sorry, I just can’t keep reading from that point on.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
um, yeah.
Josh Smith cut out the threes last year and turned into a pretty efficient scorer—50.5% FGs (although the FTs remained horrible). But Smith is as good at defense as Villanueva is bad at it. Which is saying something about both guys.
by JeHa on Jul 19, 2010 11:59 PM MST up reply actions
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