Small Concern For How Phoenix Suns' Goran Dragic Fits With Hedo Turkoglu
I love Goran Dragic, and I believe he can be the future starting PG for the Suns, and will contribute to a championship caliber team in that capacity.
Goran's greatest strength is mental toughness. Every time he got shown up by another player on the court (ball stolen, fast-break dunk, between-his-legs dribble-drive, 3-ptr), he would man up and RETURN THE FAVOR, most times on the very next possession. Maybe he looks like Luke Skywalker for a reason - the force is with him.
He is no Steve Nash, and after a failed half-season of trying to be, he's decided just to be Goran Dragic. He has stop-and-go moves, step-back 3-ptrs, drive-and-dish, and that killer instinct.
This season, I anticipate further improvement on defense, more consistent shooting and finishing at the basket.
But if I have one concern, it's the arrival of Hedo Turkoglu and his impact on Goran's aggressiveness.
The Goran and Hedo dynamic
Turkoglu can be great in this offense, I believe, if he's given free reign in some lineups to be the ballhandler. When Hedo is dialed-in, he can be very effective. A game-changer even. But if he's relegated to Frye-like spot-up opportunities, he probably won't openly sulk (especially if the Suns are winning) but he might become a less-effective player. And the Suns need to maximize everyone's play.
Hedo is a 10-year veteran who is most effective with the ball in his hands with an opportunity to create.
Steve Nash is a 2-time MVP who is most effective with the ball in his hands with an opportunity to create.
Goran Dragic is a promising 3rd-year point guard who is most effective with the ball in his hands with an opportunity to create.
Guess who's the odd man out, IF HE ALLOWS IT? Goran.
Remember when Leandro and Goran played together? He would hand off to LB, drift to the corner for spacing, and never see it again. Until Gentry yelled at him to be more aggressive, that is. Will Gentry give him the same commands when the alternate ball-handler is Hedo, instead of LB? Will the ever-humble Goran recede into a shell and try to morph into a spot-up shooter "for the good of the team"? I hope not. I hope Goran is beyond the wallflower stage.
Here's how it can work with 3 primary ballhandlers, 2 of them sharing the court at all times
But then I think of the second unit's MOST effective stretches. And that was when Goran and Grant Hill would take turns with the ball handling, each taking the ball at the opposite high angle of the 3-pt line and working their side of the court. To properly defend an angle pick-n-roll, a defense must commit 3 players to the two designated p-n-r guys on offense. One to cut off the roll, one to defend the pop/outlet pass and one to defend the ballhandler's dribble-drive.
If the defense loaded up to one side, as would inevitably have to happen, the ballhandler would swing the rock quickly to the other side. I can see Goran and Hedo owning this offensive set better than Grant and Goran ever did. Hedo is a master at the angle and side pick-n-rolls. For that matter, I can see Nash and Hedo doing the same when they share the court.
We'll have a veritable pickandrollapalooza.
Of course, you're thinking the Suns without Amare will be shooting blanks on this set. No such thing. The key to good p-n-r is the ballhandler. Now the Suns have 3 of them, with the ability to play 2 at all times. Plus, Warrick is known as a great "roll" guy, and Robin is developing that as well. And don't forget that the PG can be the "roller" while the other can "pop" a jump shot. Frye does this well, as does Warrick (surprised?), and all 3 ballhandlers are good at getting to the basket for points.
Chemistry, Trust and Mutual Respect
It all depends on how well these guys mesh together. Emotionally, for the most part. If someone (Hedo, Steve or Goran) gets too greedy and stops sharing the ball, then resentment will grow and/or one of them will shrink into the background. This is NOT a good use of the team's talents, and it's Gentry's ultimate reponsibility to make sure this doesn't happen.
A year from now, I don't want to see a story headline like 'What happened to Goran?' or 'Stop blaming Hedo'.
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It's sort of strange that you point out Goran's biggest strength is his mental toughness
Maybe confidence and mental toughness are two different things, but I see his inconsistent confidence levels as his biggest flaw. He’s got the skills of a Manu Ginobili, but not the mental fortitude. If he can maintain a high level fo confidence, he’ll be killer.
Bloggin' 'bout AZ sports ... SB Nation Arizona
I think confidence and mental toughness are 2 different things
or maybe I’m using the wrong words.
Remember when the Memphis PG dribbled between Goran’s legs last year for a driving layup? On the very next possession, Goran did the same right back and scored on a layup. I’ve never seen him dribble between someone’s legs before or since. he was making a point.
Remember Rose’s fast-break dunk on Goran last night? The very next night, a player from the other team tried the same thing and Goran blocked it. Another player would have allowed the layup, not wanting to get posterized 2 nights in a row.
Remember Game 6 of the WCF, when Vujacic made a 3-ptr in the 4th to put the Lakers comfortably ahead, all while jawing at Goran. Did Goran wilt? No. He made a answering 3, and then 5 more points in 3 minutes while the Suns cut the lead to 3 before Kobe started making his crazy shots again.
And how many times has Goran had the ball stolen, only the chase THAT GUY down and steal it right back?
And finally, how many times did we hear, after a big game, that Gentry got in Goran’s face to be more aggressive?
Goran reacts with a vengeance when someone shows him up. he just doesn’t come into the game with that same vengeance all the time. he needs to get fired up by someone or something.
What would you call that?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
That is a quality Steve Nash has, as well.
I think of it as ‘Instant Justice’. Nash extends it to other players, too – if Dudley or Grant or anybody gets the ball stolen, he will set up the next play to allow that player to atone.
I think Garon reached a tipping point in the playoffs last year. He went from the Porter era, wondering if he belonged in the league, to having one of the best playoff quarters of all time. It’s pretty hard to think you ’don’t belong’ after posterizing the Spurs for an entire 4th quarter en route to a playoff sweep. He may not be Nash in terms of style or emphasis, but he’s learning from him, nonetheless.
I’m not too worried about Goran and Hedo striking a balance. As you point out, we can have two p&r sets on the floor at the same time. Gentry can facilitate that – I think he’s shown that he is innovative and unique.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
23 pts In the 4th
…I love that story
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
i will change my number to number 2 if gravity hill retires
from GH33 to #2, oh i love goran, haha
by Christian_33 on Jul 29, 2010 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I call that COMPETETIVENESS!!
I’m not sure that’s a word, but I do know that it is definitely a state of MIND! Like being down 2 to 13 in a game to 15, and coming back to win. It is a never say die type attitude that great players and champions have. Like when Bird stole the inbounds pass and hit DJ coming down the lane. If you make it to the NBA because of skill and not just your name recognition….you have some sort of GAME, you just need to be able to play it.
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by itkonlyyou207s on Aug 1, 2010 7:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Pick and Roll with Hedo
the only potential difficulty i see with Hedo and the Pick and Roll is that he will most likely be our starting power forward yet he is usually the ball-handler in PnR situations, which means the only true “roller” in our starting line-up (unless Hedo can adjust to being a Dirk/Frye pick and pop guy) is Lopez which could potentially affect how our starting unit operates as a result, compared to last year when we had the leagues ultimate roll guy starting.
expect a lot of mixing and matching
I think we are underestimating Warrick’s affect on the Suns. He’s a good p-n-r finisher, either with a roll to the rim for a dunk or foul, or a jump shot. he really will look good running pnr with our guys.
You’re right that, in the starting lineup, Lopez is the only finisher. but when Amare was in there for 7 years, HE was really the only finisher. But even so, that starting lineup might only play 15-20 minutes a game as a unit (begin and end of each half). The rest of the game will be fluid.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
oh, and in 05-06 and the second half of 2009
we didn’t have Amare and the offense still found a way to lead the league in scoring.
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by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Good point that
Amare was the ‘only’ roll guy.
Now I think Lopez can be ‘that’ guy – he has amazing hands for someone 7’ tall and we’ve seen his feathery touch or his ferocious vengeance around the rim. RoLo is key
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I constantly think and hope
For his health.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions
No doubt -
glad he decided to play it safe and not try out for team USA, but the way he plays all-out his health will always be a concern.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Very true.
I was glad to read that extremely informative comment made on the Robin Lopez FanPost. It seems like it’ll likely be a recurring thing if he’s not careful, but it can be avoided.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
I doubt Hedo and Goran will be on the court together very often.
Barring injury or lineup changes, anyways. Perhaps that’s why you refer to it as a “small concern.”
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
why do you doubt that?
I really think Hedo will spend as much time with the second unit as he does with the first unit. Warrick will get time with Stevie and Lopez at the 4, while Hedo will help the playmaking of the second unit.
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by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
I suppose it remains to be seen
I just assumed with the rotation of last year’s 2nd unit, when we rarely saw the starters’ peanut butter intermingle with the bench players’ chocolate, that things would be the same this year.
But then we all know how flexible Alvin is.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I agree with RMason
One of the biggest strengths of last year’s team was the “unit” mentality. In the first quarter, we had one, maybe two, subs in for foul trouble or change of pace (Frye for Lopez, usually). But, second quarter showed an entire unit switch. I expect the same this year, so Goran will probably run offensive sets with Warrick and J-Chill more than Hedo.
by ajotanelsona on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I suspect we'll see the starters as Lopez/Turk/Hill/Richardson/Nash
but in reality will see Richardson spend more time with the second unit along with Turk/lopez, while Warrick/Chill/frye spend a lot of time with the starters to maximise the strengths of the players and the offensive/defensive balance of the first and second units. Warrick/frye are best suited at the business end of a nash pick and roll (which Goran can’t run as well) and Richardson/Turk/Dragic all have the ability to create from isolation situations and are the guys least likely to benefit from playing alongside Nash.
Anyone works with Nash
Exhibit A: Joe Johnson, 04-05. He was excellent at creating his own shot, however, ISO-Joe was not a go-to play the Suns used often. J-Rich can create his own shot, but still plays much better alongside Nash.
Exhibit B: Boris Diaw, 05-06. As a replacement for Amar’e, Diaw was the point-forward, running high-screens and finding open shooters. Turk will play this in the upcoming season.
The first unit, Nash-JRich-Hill-Turk-Lopez, will focus on high screens and lots of passing. Defensively, I think they might just have to use the zone a whole lot to make up for the lack of size inside.
The second unit, Dragic-Childress-Dudley-Warrick-Frye, will focus on hustle defense and 3 point shooting offense. I expect them to be a shut-down perimeter defense, which should lead to a lot of transition buckets from Dragic, Childress, and Warrick.
by ajotanelsona on Jul 29, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Versatility
I think it’s great that we have the problem of too many passers. Most teams can’t say that about their roster, except for Minnesota but they’re not that great anyway. But for the Suns to have this “issue” can be a good thing for a couple of reasons: 1) Gives Nash an opportunity to be that scorer and rest his back longer; 2) Gives the Suns a third playmaker option in Hedo if Goran is having an off night; 3) Spreads the floor when 2 or more playmakers are in the game. I think you’re right that Goran will need to take command of his position more so that Hedo doesn’t take over and leave Goran out in the cold.
Hedo will actually find Goran on the opposite side with a pass
when the help defense comes…. as opposed to Barbosa, who would dribble for 14 seconds before launching an off-balance shot into double coverage.
That's very true.
I just realized…I’m going to miss LB the person, but I’m not going to miss LB the player. He could shoot when his wrist wasn’t all screwed up, but he was a black hole on offense. Throw the ball in, it wasn’t coming out.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Vet big man- Why no mention of Jarron Collins?
i know this isn’t the right place for it, but i was just wondering about this vet big man we are supposed to aquire and why there doesn’t seem to be any mention of bringing Jarron Collins back to fill that role. I know he’s not the most talented guy but he proved his worth last season by coming in and fulfilling his role to the best of his ability when we needed him on the court, and keeping his mouth shut and playing hard in practice when we didn’t.
He really really fucking sucks
We can probably get a young guy to suck for a lower minimum
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 29, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Why waste words?
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 29, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Because you can.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
but collins had more wins than lopez
haha.. he is ahmmmm 8-2 when he starts?
correct me if im wrong..
lopez is 2-4?
numbers lie, hakhak
by Christian_33 on Jul 29, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions
After seeing him in the postseason
I’m glad I haven’t heard mention of him on this team next year. He has more things that he “can’t-do” than he “can-do”. I honestly don’t think he proved anything last season besides maintaining the Frye-coming-off-the-bench chemistry. When we played him 15 minutes/game against Portland, he struggled to keep up with the faster bigs, and when we played him under 10 minutes/game against San Antonio, we were able to slow down Duncan (much credit to Frye). All-in-all, he was an emergency-situation guy, not someone you give money to at the start of the season.
by ajotanelsona on Jul 29, 2010 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
From a talent standpoint, i know he's not a guy you want to play major minutes
but my thinking is that nobody we pick up to play third string center is going to play major minutes anyway, and if the worst happens and lopez comes down for an extended period it’s likely we’ll try and pick up a better contributor with the TPE. At least with Collins we are getting a known quantity of sucktitude who at least seems to be a good locker room guy and a positive influence on Lopez.
I'm with you on this
What, we expect out 3 string center is gonna be Bill Russell or something? Anybody who’s any good will go to a team where he’ll have a chance to get minutes. Your argument is right on.
by East Bay Ray on Jul 29, 2010 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Not necessarily..
I don’t believe Turk was brought here to be another ballhandler, but rather to provide depth and versatility. I envision Turk to play the role Diaw did for us a couple season ago, but with better vision and a more consistent jumpshot. With Turk in the lineup, we have the option of running pick and rolls between Turk and Lopez. This allows us to take advantage of our mobile bigs, and force the opposing team’s 4s and 5s to come out of the pant to defend. It also gives us the option of using both Grant Hill and Turk as ballhandlers in the open court, similar to what the Lakers do with Lamar Odom.
Its up to Gentry
I suspect that they will take shifts being the primary ballhandler and playing off the ball. That will allow each to conserve energy over the course of the game to be fresh for the end of the game.
Gentry seems to favor Nash as his closer, so I expect Steve to be the primary ballhandler over the last 8-10 minutes.
Other than that, it is really up to Gentry to pull the guys in and say, “Goran’s running the show for the next 6 minutes…” or “Let’s put the ball in Hedo’s hands, and you guys run off these picks…”
coaches probably know this
Coach Gentry probably knows the potential problem you point out, and might be working on it.
oh I highly doubt it
I’m the only one who thinks of these things.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
+1
You did always struggle to connect with the players though.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 29, 2010 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
says who?
I’ll kick their ass, whoever it is, and tell em what they should really be thinking…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Bridging the planets
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hedo be the player Gentry uses as the common link between planet orange and planet purple. Last year Amare was most frequently used in this capacity. The biggest deficiency the second unit suffered from last season was the ability to score; the defense and hustle were fairly stable. Subtract Barbosa and Amundson and add Childress and Warrick. I think that this unit will still struggle to score at times even though Childress might be a significant upgrade over Barbosa. I’m not seeing Warrick contributing to the level that others envision. There is a reason he’s the tenth man on the depth chart. People are suggesting that Nash will make him better, but I don’t see Nash and him sharing very many minutes. If Hedo can help with the ball movement on the second unit to prevent things from getting stagnant like they did at times last year, then that would help shore up a potential shortcoming. I’m not convinced that Turkoglu is exactly a panacea that will elevate the offensive output of his teammates, but I really don’t see him impeding the development of Goran the Quick if and when they share substantial minutes together throughout the season.
by Jim Coughenour on Jul 29, 2010 12:11 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
interesting take
I like it, and I hope you’re right
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by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Well I really hope he is wrong.
Warrick is my idol. HDUBB FOR LIFE>
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
well true
I didn’t agree with the “warrick won’t be as good as we hope” part, but that’s quibbling. It was a solid comment.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Well I really hope you are right
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
In a past life possibly...
I didn’t recognize you 8472species, did you do something with your hair?
by Jim Coughenour on Jul 30, 2010 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Lakers are trying to trade sasha vujacic
I think we should pick him up so we can keep getting better team chemistry
by Migonads on Jul 29, 2010 12:25 PM MDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
haha
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by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
No, that’s much too harsh, I guess, because they did win two titles. But…there’s not much evidence that they like each other as the Suns players do. If anything, I would think they don’t necessarily like each other much at all. The team is led by a player whose self-discipline and desire to win manages to control his being a snide prima donna; and that asshole Vujacic probably doesn’t irritate his teammates as much as he irritates us, but he can’t be loved; and didn’t Pau Gasol used to show signs of being angry because he didn’t get the ball enough? And maybe all the other players privately get tired of Bryant’s dominance and arrogance.
I think you talked yourself out of your own argument
let Dragic and Turkeyglue play BOTH GIVE’N’GO (they could run a great fast break) and pick-n-roll (a pg-sf/pf combo that can both pass and shoot a 3? it’s deadly, especially with a Childress cutting to the basket). Yeah, it’ll take some time for ‘em to learn, but it’s a NICE dilemma.
yeah it works as long they are on the same page
and Gentry keeps them there. But I still worry a bit that Goran will stagnate or regress in an effort to help Turk fit in. Like I said, not a big concern. but a concern nonetheless.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jul 29, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
And I don't give a damn...
…because today’s August 1st. Let’s GO with something before we talk ourselves out of it. It’s barely FIBA time.
Turkeyglue??
if you’re going to mock his name, “Turkeyglue” isn’t ridiculous enough. It’s far too recognizable as his name. I suggest Hoju Turkeyglop.
....turtlegoo
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
So....
…last year, you were one of the pilgrims in the kindergarten play?
I didn’t know they had those in “fluidic space”.
If Goran and Turk play together, at least Turk will pass and move the ball around.
Barbs had a tendency to overdribble and kill whatever sets Gentry might’ve set out for them to execute. He would overdribble and occasionally take a bad shot or try going to the hoop himself. I see him occasionally pass but with his limited minutes from last season, it always seemed like he tried to do things by himself a lot. I put up with it whenever he scored, but I guess we all put up with bad things whenever it somehow miraculous produces a result.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
players shouldn't try too hard to imitate stars
About Goran Dragic trying to be Steve Nash: I didn’t realize he did that. I certainly agree that players should be themselves rather than trying to be clones of their betters. Dragic as Dragic does things Nash doesn’t do, such as defend. And he could very well become a better scorer.
yeah
NBATV just showed a replay of Game 4 of the WCF, and I watched Goran just tear them apart in awys Nash could never do. Amazing stuff, really.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
What I’ve always wanted to see on a channel that replays old games is the 1976 finals, or at least one game of it. The triple-overtime game, of course.
you can catch a lot of it on Youtube. I've watched em'.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
NBATV also occasionally shows it
I caught it once, randomly
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
It's actually been on a few times
Whether it was ESPN Classics or NBA TV I don’t recall.
I don't see how it's any different than Hedo and Jameer together
It’s strange that for so long we Suns fans complained that Nash is the only one who can make plays out on the court and now that we get a Point Forward that will pair up with one of our Point Guards, we’re getting a little worried that it wont work?
I was re-watching the Suns vs Magic game (J-Rich’s first with the Suns) and I saw more than enough in that game to show me at least how Hedo and Goran would work together. In that game Orlando moved the ball wonderfully between Hedo and Jameer as the primary creators. It was a dynamic that worked well between those two guys who used dribble-penetration to draw in defenders and took turns playing off the ball throughout the game or even in a single shot-clock.
Besides, Goran is not the type of guard who hangs onto the ball for most of the shot clock or fails to create good ball movement or draw in defenders (ie, Jose Calderon). In fact, Goran keeps the ball in his hands a lot less than a guy like Steve Nash does. Whereas Goran at times seems to pass the ball after running out of ideas, guys like Nash will hang onto the ball and continue probing and letting the ball-screens and cuts develop.
It sounded like Alvin is actually relishing the opportunity to cut down on that and allow Steve Nash to play off the ball at times. I know they tried to do that some under Terry Porter, but we honestly just didn’t have the caliber of playmaking at any other position that could make that work well. Amare wasn’t as good a passer then as he became this year (and even now he’s still got a long way to go) and Shaq’s playmaking on the low-block post-ups killed the rhythm and tempo of the offense.
by arizonatribe on Jul 29, 2010 2:10 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
study what the Magic did with Turkoglu
That brings up something obvious: the Suns could study the Magic’s games for clues on how to use Turkoglu.
I like your style tribe -
you need to post more
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Just for teh record: Clark could be both a roll man and a ball-handler. Thank you for listening :)
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
yeah I'm actually wondering
if he will see Turkoglu and see what he could become on offense, but with the added ability to play really good defense and rebound better.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Hopefully Clark realizes that he isn't 6-1 and that he can dribble, drive, shoot and defend.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
I don't understand what it is with these bigs that never do anything with their talents; I.E Odom, and Randolph, Coleman
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
They act big when they get in other players' faces after an incident but they play small.
It’s a growing trend that needs to stop
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
They act big when they get in other players' faces after an incident but they play small.
It’s a growing trend that needs to stop
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Damn double post.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Eh, Zach Randolph seemed to play well last year.
He was named an All-Star, after all.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh.
There are a few Randolphs around. But Anthony Randolph hasn’t been given a chance yet. He’s still young, and when he seemed to be putting it together last season (believe me, I watched him), he went down with a season ending injury. ’Twas a shame, really.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Clark is different from them
It could be that when he was young, he may have been of average height, and he learned to play like a guard. Then as he grew and grew, he maintained those skills and realized it set him apart. Using that talent in the NBA is different than how you did in high school and in the NCAA. There are actually lots of tall people running around, but to make it in in the NCAA and the NBA, big isn’t enough, you have to have skills.
Now I’m guessing Odom and others were likely always big, slow plodders who used their size to dominate. That worked in grade shool, high school and the NCAA. But in the NBA, there’s guards who can still posterize you if you don’t get off the ground, and other skilled bigs that will make you look silly. Not just about size it’s about talent and skills. Clark has to figure out, with coaching, what and how to use the skills he has.
that
would be deiciuos…how do you spell delicious?
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Spell check is your friend...
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
vouls are my enemy
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
fuck, now they have perfect foils to the miami thrice; how are the suns going to win a chip now?
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
Me too, but miami now has three clutch players on the team to outweigh the softness of bosh and the choking capacity of lebron
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
I'm just saying that Eddie House is a good fit and can actually play the pg position.
He is a great complement to the sharp shooting of mike miller.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
We should worry about the Lakers before even giving a 2nd thought to the Heat.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Yeah, but the Cold are shaping up to be better than the Fakers on paper (only on paper). And, obviously, everybody’s ignoring the Fakers right now because the Fakers haven’t changed significantly.
Lol we've changed quite dramatically but the media still doesn't give a rat's ass about us. Oh wait, they never have...
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
I'm really glad the heat are in the east
they’d have been dangerous surronded by scrubs…now…crap.
all they need is center to show some sign of life and they’ll be hunting for 70 wins
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
I'm just as intrigued by the Bulls. They look pretty beefed up now.
I actually would’ve paid to see a Rose and Wade backcourt in action. One can only dream.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
I work with a die hard bulls fan (logo tat and everything)…he was not happy about the lebron thing, not for snubbing CHI but for joining the super friends. I told him he’s letting cloud his teams out look. I’ll deff be tryn to catch more bulls games
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Thank god most Bulls telecasts are on WGN.
But I still need to chip in for League Pass with my friend again to catch the Suns games. He gets LP for his Laker games and I use his LP Broadband for Suns telecasts. I hate not living in Phoenix.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
I may just get the League Pass
To satiate my need for basketball games. Then again, if there’s a Suns game on, I won’t be using many of the other channels that night.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't hate..
Some may not like how this came to be, but what’s wrong with this roster:
G – Wade, Chalmers, Arroyo, Miller, House
F – James, Bosh, Haslem, Howard, Jones
C – Magloire, Ilgauskas, Anthony
And they drafted Butler (WVU) and Varnado (MSU) among others.
When they figure the chemistry out, you can’t deny this could be a scary, scary team for quite some time. Bosh soft…not sure about that one. As for Lebron..Arrogant…perhaps (The Cavs and NBA created this monster). But he took teams that had marginal talent…deep into the playoffs. And took one team with NO talent to the Finals.
But we digress as this is not about Lebron or the Heat, it’s about the Suns. And in reference to Eddie House, he was a good cog when he was here, and he’ll likely contribute there. But we’ve got enough G’s and wing players.
Imagine all the hot weather puns in the headlines if the Heat face the Suns in the Finals.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
James?
Like LeBron James? When did you guys get him?
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 29, 2010 4:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Remember how we've had a ton of discussions
on whether or not Goran is a true PG or a SG or a Combo?
The point is – he can do it all. I think he likes to play off the ball and he could be really effective doing it. He played off the ball an awful lot with Barbosa… who rarely will give the ball up after getting it dumped off to him. Turk will give it up – and with Goran’s skill-set he can excel in either running through screens for spot up jumpers (using his speed), he can box out and rebound or make smart movement, and he can leak out with his speed to play solid transition D -
I can only see positive things with having 2 boss (as in bossa nova) ball handlers / shooters on the court at all times. What makes me anxious for the season as well is the creativity we’ll see from out team. Nash hands down is the most creative/innovative PGs in the game (Rondo and DWilly deserve mention as well), Goran has that same quality. He doesn’t necessarily play like Steve – but he has his own armory of weapons and moves and that is why I love to watch him – I never know what spin move / 360 / dunk / stop n’ go / 3/4 court pass / behind the back / ball faking move he is going to bang the floor with. Hedo offers a 3rd distributive style to our creativity mix. Throw Grant Hill’s classic UTEP two-stepping ways and everything else we’ve got and we have an amazingly unpredictable array of options to throw at teams night in night out.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I’d throw Tony parker in there for being able to burn defenders off the drible. although I can see scorin gorin being better then TP becuase he’s stronger.
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
And Goran has a much better jumpshot.
And better footwork.
And more athleticism.
And he’s faster.
And he has no injury history in the NBA.
And he’s much younger.
And he’s a much better passer.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDHoFFYywls
So fast, he couldn’t even control himself. Plus, Dragic can keep up with Derrick Rose, who’s as fast as they come. So yeah I think he’s fast.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
by NashMV3 on Jul 29, 2010 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha I love that so much!!
I also love your signature… lol
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
by Dragic_is_Magic on Jul 29, 2010 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I remember an interview with Barbosa
where they asked him who was faster, he or Goran –
Barbosa said that without the ball Goran might be faster – but he felt he could probably beat Goran with the ball. But that’s coming from probably one of if not the fastest guy with the ball in hands in the league
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 29, 2010 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
They gave us 2 speed demons that ended up killing them this past season.
Gotta love it.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
In the past, Barbosa gave the Spurs a ton of fits.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:41 AM MDT up reply actions
He may not have done it too much this past season,
But the quicker players are generally the ones that give the Spurs the most trouble.
Amar’e Stoudemire, anyone?
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:41 AM MDT up reply actions
I don’t know about foot work, T.P.’s specialty. now if he can learn to probe the defence like nash along with some more skill development and he could be one of the best PGs in th L
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Dragic's spin moves are killer.
It’s weird how even though TP’s only 28, most of the league thinks he’s too old to try to trade for him. I know he has extra mileage from the postseason and the French national team but still.
I know Dragic has more upside than TP, plus it’s a homer thing that grants favoritism. And you saw him school TP plenty in game 3 of the Spurs series.
All this use of TP brings up memories of when i used to TP my neighbor’s house on Halloween. Good times, good times.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
We TP'd my friend's house one night
Using 136 rolls of toilet paper. She was a little pissed.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 29, 2010 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I know
there was a near explosion when someone on PtR suggested trading Parker. it turned into a spurs civil war. I don’t understand the thinking of TP being too old, very few people can gaurd that guy…and if your wearing homer goggles i gues I am to. I dont think it’s hyperbole to say that gorin can be a better all around PG then rose rondo and TP…all this talk reminds me…i gotta take a dump.
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Key being "can be..."
He’s got a long way to go, but hif he can reach their level of ability and play, we’d be golden…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
thats why i didn’t say “is” but i think most suns fans agree about his where his ceiling is.
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
still, where's the defense and the rebounding?
This prospect of having many ballhandlers is going to have to come true and be extremely effective—so effective that it compensates for the limited rebounding. The Suns don’t need more ballhandlers to beat the Fakers, they need more size and more defense. Hidayet Turkoglu is the only experienced big guy the Suns have acquired, and he plays like an oversized guard, not a big man.
we’ll just play gorin on dudly’s shoulders, that should do the trick..
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
really...
where is the defense and rebounding that we’ve lost?
Amare? Not really. Defensively poor.
Barbosa? No. Defensively poor.
Lou? Yes. But his minutes were limited.
Warrick? Can rebound but defensively is poor.
Childress? Defensive upgrade and can rebound like our wings can. (which is good)
Hedo? Rebound? eh…. Defense? marginal.
Its not like we’ve taken huge leaps and bounds backwards defensively – I actually think we will be slightly better defensively because of our versatility .
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention
Gani Lawal? Defense – YES. Rebounds – Hecks yess.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I’d love for Lawal to play many minutes, but how is he going to on such a deep team unless someone gets hurt?
By outplaying Hakim Warrick and earning his keep in practice.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Or when Lopez/Frye/Hedo or someone gets into early foul trouble
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
or if he doesn't outplay Warrick
that’s a good thing too because that means Warrick is doing well
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
am I overestimating the logjams?
I just think both forward positions are so stacked that Lawal can’t play much whether he outplays Warrick or not. Am I wrong?
no I'm just saying
that if Lawal beats out Warrick for minutes, then good on the Suns
And if Warrick gets the minutes because he’s better than Lawal, good on the Suns.
Either way, the Suns win. That’s a nice predicament.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I just hope it's enough for Earl Clark.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
He responded well when Thunder Dan told him
That he’d be benched in the Summer League if he didn’t play better. He showed up the next game, giving his best game of the five.
He didn’t exactly follow it up, but at least we know he responds to something…
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:43 AM MDT up reply actions
On a totally random note...
Do you think the Suns will play on Christmas day in the upcoming season? We’re slowly falling off the radar and we got stuck with the Clippers last season. It might’ve been better if Blake Griffin was healthy but it ended up being a bore of a blowout.
What team do you want the Suns facing on X-mas day if they do play? I know it’s probably not going to be the Heat or the Lakers but you never know. So your thoughts?
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
on a side random note
how many games do the cavs get televized?
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Less than the Timberwolves is my guess.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
2011 NBA Finals
T wolves and Cavs
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Lowest ratings since
Pistons vs. Spurs
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 AM MDT up reply actions
You mean Cavs vs. Spurs
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
don't count on Xmas day game
but I think the Suns will still get 25+ regular season games on national TV (what they got last season, also predicted to miss playoffs entirely)
and then there’s the 20 or more playoff games…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I could see PHX in the throwaway night game again.
Bring on the Warriors!
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 29, 2010 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Bring on the Spurs again - or the Lakers
has to be a match-up of great proportions
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
spurs
i want redemption for someone leaving RMJ WHIDE FUCKING OPEN!!!!!!! thank god I was listening on KTAR and I didn’t have to see it
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
I almost threw my remote at the TV
But quickly realized that potentially breaking a 42" LCD TV coupled with the Suns loss would probably have sent me into a manic depressive state
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jul 30, 2010 1:47 AM MDT up reply actions
You weren't the only one. My dad would've tossed me out the house for ruining his 52 inch LCD HDTV.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
well I guess I'm right in the middle of the pack
with my 47" LCD HDTV
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
goodwill
I still have a 20" tube TV, I’ve been say’n for years that when the suns make the finals I’m geting a new TV…no Joke. oh well here’s to hoping by this time next year I have a huge HD TV, maybe I’ll go boris diaw
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."

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