Summer Nutshells
All things considered, it has been quite the nutty offseason for the Suns. It didn't feel quite so significant as it happened, since following basketball news during the summertime is kind of like mowing the lawn with a pair of scissors, but to look back at the last two months as a whole, I think it provided much more entertainment than most people suspected.
A complete regime change underneath Bobby Sarver, three new players in the rotation and three "old" players who will be wearing different uniforms next year. I thought a post to nutshell the whole situation was warranted, and just for jollies (and I know how much some of you like jollies), I'll explain why I think the summer was a great success, despite the chaos.
The Suns of Yesterday
via www.nba.com
Amare, Leandro and (eventually) Lou are moving on. Never mind who the replacements are for now, let's take a look at what exactly we lost.
Editors note: I am not a stats guy, so you will scarcely find them in anything I post.
Amare Stoudemire: One of the best big men in Suns history. When motivated, was a human tornado that destroyed everything in his path. He could go for 30 points without breaking a sweat. He was good enough to be great without giving 100%, so he usually gave anywhere between 60-75%. Amare wasn't really a basketball player per se; he was more of an athletic freak who at times couldn't be stopped from cramming the orange ball through the cylinder. On the other hand, if you're looking for someone to take a charge, dive for a ball, get physical down low, or do anything of significance without the rock in his hands, look further. Way further.
Leandro Barbosa: A fan favorite who was more liked for his lovable personality than he was for his play on the court, which has spiraled downward in the last couple seasons. Some mitigating factors may have been involved (the death of his mother, injuries, etc.), but it was obvious that he no longer had a defined role on the team. Goran Dragic emerged as the Suns' guard of the future, and LB's skills were redundant alongside Dragic, who could pretty much do all the stuff that LB did when he was at his peak and added a high basketball IQ that LB never had.
Lou Amundson: The anti-Amare, Lou was great without the ball in hands, but aside from flushing alley-oops from the Dragon he should never have the ball in his hands unless something horrible has happened. What he lacked in offensive ability, however, he more than made up for in intangibles. Seriously, the guy's intangibles could choke a donkey. Opposing players were known to exclaim "Damn, son! This dude's intangibles are messin' with my game!" He will be sorely missed, and his departure represents my low-point of the offseason.
The New Guys in Orange
Enter Josh Childress, Hedo Turkoglu and Hakim Warrick. Seriously who would have guessed that any one of these three guys would end up in Phoenix? Say what you will about Sarver, aside from the Amare situation the guy knows how to keep a lid on things.
By the way, assuming that 2nd round pick Gani Lawal keeps the same #31 that he wore in college, that means that Amare's #1 (Chill), Raja's #19 (Hedo) and Marion's #31 will all be reissued in the same season. Take from that what you will.
Why this will work
Hedo will take Amare's starting gig at PF, and much has been made of the absurdity of this decision. It likely will create a deficiency in the rebounding department, and it remains to be seen if Hedo can defend opposing 4's. Warrick will be subbing in for Hedo, and he carries similar concerns, if for different reasons. Childress figures to be a coup, the most low-risk acquisition of the bunch. When you boil all the changes together, it doesn't look like the vacancy of Amare and Lou were filled appropriately. However, the most important factor doesn't show up on paper.
Alvin's System
via phxsunsnews.com
Every great coach has a distinct system. Alvin Gentry is no exception. He has effectively created a hybrid, using 7SOL as more of a guideline than a rule and peppering in his own defensive philosophies. While many people have been squawking for years about the end of the Suns' era, the new era began before they even realized it. Gang rebounding, sagging man-to-man (or Girly Zone, if you prefer), player accountability... these are now the characteristics of your Phoenix Suns.
Alvin now has another defensive ace to play with in Childress, and along with Grant Hill and Jared Dudley the team now boasts three players who can be assigned to the other team's best perimeter player. The addition of Turkoglu and Warrick as the team's PFs will enable Gentry to push his gang-rebounding philosphy even harder, and we learned last year that the man's system works. The Suns stormed the league from February all the way to the Conference Finals. It was no coincidence that February was about a full year after Gentry took over for Terry Porter. It took him a full season to develop the team according to his model, and by the time it was implemented the Suns were a ten-deep squad, brimming with confidence and with a newfound philosophy on defense.
Crisis Averted, Everybody Chill
With the surprising departure of Kerr and Griffin, followed shortly by the invetibale departure of Amare, things could have gone many different ways. What worried me the most at the time was the possibility of a panic-induced replacement signing. The idea of the Suns signing David Lee for the next five years or mortaging their future on Al Jefferson had me quaking in my proverbial boots. Instead, Cool Hand Babby brought in some very versatile players on flexible contracts. The message was clear: The Suns are going to succeed their way. They're not breaking the bank for just anyone. The system is more important than big-name transactions, and players will be brought in accordingly.
I agree that Hedo's contract is a tad worrisome, but it's hard for me to see any of the new Suns being a disappointment. Hedo turned into a punchline in Toronto, which was one horrible year for him among many good ones. He will have no excuses not to succeed in Phoenix as this is a very player-friendly organization. Warrick has found himself in a system that suits his strengths perfectly. Childress is a super-likeable dude and I want to be his friend, plus he's the long perimeter defender that many of us were pining for. He will be a fan-favorite by this December.
I hope that was tidy enough, it ended up being longer than I expected. In lieu of a proper closing, I will offer you a poll instead.
Happy hunting everyone.
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I'm reccing this, hopefully to get it noticed
this is a great article, RMason. I like the way you think.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Thanks dude!
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Aug 10, 2010 7:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
how does a post on Prince/Maxiell
get 61 comments and this post get none?!?!?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
No comment.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Aug 10, 2010 7:06 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
controversy...
i fell asleep twice before Majerle’s ugly mug scared me awake…
I just now found it.
There’s a lot to read on here, considering we’re in August. Thanks, Alex – and everybody!
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
There's a perennial debate occurring over there between Beavis and the fanposter.
Gaaaah
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Totally rec'd.
Great writeup RMason. As much as I’d love our team to have made some push for maybe Luis Scola or David Lee, I don’t think these moves set us back at all. I’m looking forward to this season. You can count on that!
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Thanks!
And that’s the beauty part of the current team, they have given themselves enough cap flexibility that they could still pursue a Lee or a Scola down the road if the need arises.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Nicely done, RMason.
Anybody else think that Hedo/Warrick may be a lot like the Yin/Yang of Lopez/Frye? Does anybody else think that Frye and Warrick should grow goatees, like in that Star Trek episode? Or should it be Lopez/Hedo with the goatees?
Anybody else think I’m freakin’ nuts?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
No you're not nuts.
Warrick should sport the goatee, Hedo should stick with the fu manchu, and I like Robin’s jawline beard. Hopefully he’ll stick with it in the coming years, it’s somethimg to keep an eye out for.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Aug 10, 2010 7:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Or maybe Yi and Yao should play together.
The Yi/Yao of whoever.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 12, 2010 2:19 AM MST up reply actions
It took me a while to realize that our front-court consist of white guys. How often does that happen! Last time I remember was Gasol and Brian Cardinal or something like that of the Memphis Grizzlies. Before them I could remember Nowitzki and LaFrentz. Those teams weren’t bad if you ask me. Both made the playoffs. I think Turk and Lopez will make a good tandem. Not to mention if you look at those teams and see who they put around their frontcourt and than look at our team, well we have better players. There is hope!
Don't trade Dudley!
Lopez isn't white.
He’s Fro-casian.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Aug 10, 2010 10:14 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I like this post, however, I don’t like the picture of Amundson. It makes me miss him. I still wish we could have signed him instead of Warrick, but oh well. For all I know, maybe one day I will be sporting a, “Don’t trade Warrick!” signature.
Don't trade Dudley!
That was the goal with the Lou pic.
Fo tug on your heartstrings a little. Glad I’m not the only one that gets a little misty when I see his mouthpieced grin. Sniffle.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Aug 10, 2010 10:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
If we played Nash, Dragic, Lopez. Turk, and...Lou,
We’d be very popular in the south.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
don't forget Janning...
he’s whiter than the Wayans Brothers in that one movie…ummmmm…..ugh…i can never remember the title…
and my favorite line...
WRONG HOLE FOOL!!!!!!!!!
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
hey Rmason...did you Know
That your one of the reasons I joined SBN. I got hooked on your back and forths with the guys on PtR. it made me think “hey this could be fun” so I joined. then I spent a bunch of time on SSR representing BSOTS and that got haremoore’s attention so he joined. your smart ass remarks and basketball insight spawned 2 more work time wasting mo fo’s fortunatly for BSOTS my relative lack of basketball insight is offset by haremoore’s wealth of it ………………. Now you know
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Good to know, Nashty.
I actually came away with a really good impression of the Spurs fans after spending some time at PtR.
Conversely, the Lakers fans failed to impress with a few exceptions. I couldn’t believe how sensitive they were. I posted that I would rather give up 20 pts to Gasol than 40 pts to Kobe and it started a huge flare-up. I learned that if you’re going to post there, don’t say anything about Kobe unless you’re gonna talk about how great he is.
All in good fun though.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I wouldn’t be too hard on SSR they probably get thier share of kobe hate. I know I was sick and tired about hearing how nash was over rated in 2007, 08. but I do agree PtR does seem to have thicker skin, the regulars on SSR are cool i think they just get a higher percentage of bandwagoners.
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
Yeah I didn't mean to slam the people at SSR
Probably should have phrased that differently.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
uh
it was funny didnt get half the stuff you typed .until i got sbn.
all is fair in love and war
by Bleed purp an orange on Aug 11, 2010 6:53 PM MST up reply actions
welcome to BSOTS
how long have you been reading before signing up?
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
I agree with everything but Turk's contract being "a tad worrisome." Put me down for a tad more than a tad bit worried.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 11:22 AM MST reply actions
how many tads is that, then?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 11, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not sure. But it's pretty taderiffic.
He’s 31, so technically still in his prime (barely). But last year’s down year and the 30 million or more for the next 3 years is scary. If he is the versatile SG/SF/PF who fits into any lineup and always gets his 15-20 points, great. If he turns out to not be a PF and shoots 40% for 12 points while complaining, bad.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
Why? Didn’t Turkeyglop cut his contract in half?
by 8472species on Aug 11, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
No,
I believe he just waived the trade kicker for the fifth year of the deal. It didn’t amount to much.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
well, he waved 80% of the trade kicker, plus half the 12 mill guarantee in yr 5
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
No small potatos
But no major cheddar either.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I want IHOP now.
Not sure why.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 12, 2010 2:23 AM MST up reply actions
Does that mean he gets 6 million, or 12 million should he meet certain easy-to-reach benchmarks?
And speaking of which, did Benchmark get booed from the building, or will we see him again?
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
that only means
in the summer before or during the fourth year, the Suns can waive him and only pay 6 mil. Whereas if he plays out the year then he gets paid the full 12 mil. Its like a 50% early termination clause on the final year.
Not sure how the guarantee progresses throughout the final year, though. Like, in january the season is half over. So, in January of the final season, could they waive him and save the remaining 6 mil? or trade him for someone who makes 12 mil a year, while the receiving team gets to waive him and save 6 mil + any future years that traded player had on contract (like a trade exception). I dunno. Would be nice if that were the case. A great trade chip.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I don't think Hedo's contract is as bad as advertised.
I think it was overblown due to the extra crappy year he had in Toronto, but when you compare it to the current market there are many players that are more overpaid than Hedo is. The only thing that worries me about it is that he’s only in the second year of it. However, if he performs well than there’s no need to worry.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
My impression of Hidayet Turkeyglop, I mean Turkoglu, is that he’s not a great player but a real professional.
by 8472species on Aug 11, 2010 11:50 AM MST reply actions
Within limits, that is. I know he was caught slacking off in Toronto.
by 8472species on Aug 11, 2010 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
The prospect of us signing David Lee had you quaking in your boots?
And you think what we did at PF was better? On an annual basis, Lee’s $13+M salary is less than the combination of Turkoglu (not a real PF) and Warrick (a nice bench player and nothing more). Lee is a rebounding machine, and put up overall numbers similar to Amare last year, with less scoring but a similar FG% and more rebounds and assists. I know the overall 6 year/80M commitment to him is more than we’re on the hook to Turkoglu and Warrick for, but I’d rather have one legit PF than a guy playing out of position with a nice backup. And, at age 27, Lee has a lot left in the tank.
Regardless, nice write-up! I just think Turkoglu’s contract is a bigger albatross than Lee’s.
I know Lee's numbers are nice.
But I think stats are grossly overused, mostly because they fuel debates. Especially when said stats came from a player who has spent his entire career on bad teams. I think Hedo is a better fit next to Lopez, offers more versatility to go along with future changes in the lineup, and frankly I think Lee is extremely overrated by people who measure value in statistics.
But thanks Ray!
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
agree with Mason
Lee’s contract is worse.
If Hedo is hurt/having a bad stretch, then Warrick gets more time.
If Warrick is hurt/having a bad stretch, then Hedo gets more time.
If Lee is having a bad stretch, lee gets the same time cuz he’s making 13 mil for 6 yrs and we can’t afford to sit him. If he’s hurt, we’re stuck playing a rookie second-round PF.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Is it true that.....
The Suns pursued Lee, but Lee either a.) didn’t want to go to Phoenix, b.) didn’t like the money we offered or c.) the Knicks wouldn’t trade him to us because they preferred the sign and trade package of players being offered by the Warriors? It’s been widely reported that the Suns pursued Lee, didn’t get him, and then went after Turkoglu. Wouldn’t this indicate that Suns braintrust preferred Lee to Turk, and didn’t see Lee as simply a producer of empty stats on a bad team?
Personally, I think it was the players the Knicks got from the Warriors that tipped the balance. For a sign and trade to work, the player and both teams have to agree. The Knicks needed players, since they had so little besides Amare, and the package the Warriors gave them wasn’t bad. All of this is a long-winded way of saying that Lee would have been a better fit for us (we could’ve had Warrick too, Alex) and it’s too bad that didn’t work out. Lee’s rebounds aren’t just numbers on a stat sheet. They give his team possessions on the court.
Or are we generally agreeing because you’re saying you like Lee, but just not for that price? If so, what price would you pay for him?
by East Bay Ray on Aug 11, 2010 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
I guess I just have an affinity toward players
who were key players on winning teams, so I give Turk more a chance than Lee to be a difference-maker. I know – makes no sense – but it’s what I think.
As far as Lee, I heard the Suns wouldn’t go over 10-12 mil a year for him, and didn’t want to go more than 5 yrs. And that was only when the Suns were panicking and Lee was available. I, for one, am happy they didn’t panic and give him 80 mill while giving away 3 good players at the same time.
You’re right that the Suns would’ve had Warrick, since they’d already signed him. But I don’t know that the Suns get Childress if Lee had been picked up. And I really like Childress.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I for one measure value in the cut of a man's jib,
and the cut of his jib alone.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 4:52 PM MST up reply actions
Lee's jib is cut pretty darn well. Turkoglu's jib is OK, too.
I think Turk’s jib for 3 more years, 33 million is a slightly better value than Lee’s jib at 6 years, 80 mil. But that’s not taking into account their general good guy-edness, which is way more debatable than jibs.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 4:56 PM MST up reply actions
We should determine how many hats they own.
And adjust our opinions accordingly.
After all, who can respect a professional basketball player that doesn’t own any nice hats?
Childress has the better jib than all of them
Seriously, his jib is freakin regal. Plus he’s a good guy and I want to be his friend.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
in the spirit of politicized basketball...
…it’s really about whether they support the Los Suns jerseys enthusiastically enough. If they don’t…que lastima.
by 8472species on Aug 11, 2010 7:57 PM MST up reply actions
Lee on defense is about as good as Amare on his lackadaisical days.
At least Amare had the capability to play good defense, when he wanted to. Lee can’t really play defense, even if he really wants to.
Would you really wanted to have invested in a more “solid” and prototypical PF, and dealt with the years (and years) of complaining about his defense? I, for one, am sick of complaining about the defensive effort of our PF.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 12, 2010 2:29 AM MST up reply actions
Not that Turkoglu's any defensive stalwart against PFs, but still.
Lee is just awful.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 12, 2010 2:29 AM MST up reply actions
Right.
And Hedo can be moved to different positions for future considerations while we would essentially be “stuck” with Lee at PF.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen

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