Amundson Finally Getting A Home? Pacers, Warriors, Hornets In Hunt
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 8:43 AM MDT
in Phoenix Suns News
Email
Print
According to Marc Stein of ESPN, our fan favorite Louis Amundson will soon chose a new home.
Apparently, the choices on his plate are non-playoff teams who still need a big man, have open roster spots and still have a little room under the luxury tax threshold.
I am happy for Lou and a little sad for us. We've talked ad nauseum about Lou this summer (see this recent article and voting), with most of us wanting him back but understanding how there's no room on the roster or in the daily rotation.
Sure, the Suns are still looking for a big man, and seem to be willing to spend up to a couple million a year for the guy (Sarver mentioned last month on the radio that he expected the Suns salaries to be at $65 million this season, and right now they are at $62.8 million). But that player will likely only be an injury insurance on Robin Lopez, meaning no playing time unless Robin gets hurt. Lou doesn't fit that description.
So why am I writing yet another article on it?
Because there's a chance here for a sign-and-trade to get an asset back.
The Suns have Lou's "early Bird rights", meaning they can sign him for any money up to the MLE (nearly $6 million a year). This also means they can sign-and-trade him for anything up to that level.
Lou has been holding out for $3 million guaranteed per year, for multiple years, according to this report (here). That's a lot of cheese this late in the summer.
It's possible (if not probable) that the team who wants Lou will include the Suns in a sign-and-trade deal.
I'm not talking a big asset here. Maybe a future second-round draft pick and a TPE. A great number of free agent signings this summer turned out to be sign-and-trades from the original team.
Golden State, in particular, has lost 2 free agents (CJ Watson to Cleveland and Morrow to NJ) but turned them into sign-and-trades to get back a futrue draft pick and a traded-player-exception (TPE). They have also used the sign-n-trade to pick up free agent David Lee, rather than do a straight signing. In that deal, GS gave up some nice assets to offset the extra money Lee would cost.
Amare, LeBron and Bosh all could have been straight signings, but they turned out to be sign-n-trades returning future draft picks and a sizable TPE to the "losing" team.
But why would these teams make it a sign-and-trade?
All three reported teams - Indiana, Golden State and New Orleans - are bad teams needing a LOT of help, yet are already over the salary cap.
Indiana
Current sal: 65.047 (@ $5 million short of lux tax)
Available: $5.0 mil of MLE, 1.9 mil of bi-annual, $3.4 mil Troy Murphy exception
Golden State
Current sal: 64.679 (@ $5.5 short of lux tax)
Available: $2.2 mil of MLE, 1.9 mil of bi-annual, several trade exceptions
New Orleans
Current Sal: 66.526 (about $3.5 short of lux tax)
Available: full MLE and bi-annual, lots of trade exceptions
New Orleans and Indiana can fit Lou's $3 million a year into their MLE slot, while GS is maxed at $2.2 million.
But they might not want to use their MLE money on Lou. They might want to save it for later.
By acquiring Lou via sign-and-trade, they can absorb him into one of their existing TPE's. Each has one at least as big as Lou's asking price.
In that transaction, the amount of Lou's year 1 contract would be effectively "transferred" to the Suns as a TPE, leaving Lou's new team with the difference.
Acquiring Lou via sign-and-trade also preserves the salary cap exceptions (MLE and bi-annual), still leaving them wiggle room to sign other players at more than minimum. There are still a lot of usable free agents out there.
Why would the Suns want another TPE?
Simple reason: in case of injury. Suppose the Suns get a rash of injuries this season. It would be nice to pick up someone else's player without giving up a player of our own in trade, and a TPE gives you that option.
Simpler reason: it's better than nothing.
Plus, they'd net a future second-round pick out of it. The Suns got Lawal and Dragic that way, and Carlos Boozer was once a second-rounder as were Paul Millsap, Michael Redd, Gibert Arenas and DeJuan Blair to name a few.
81 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice
hadn’t thought about doing a sign-and-trade for Lou at all. Frankly, I didn’t think his Bird Rights held much value but for a team over the cap who happens to have a TPE on the books it makes perfect sense
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
there has to be some benefit to the teams
or there wouldn’t be so many of these sign-n-trade-for-nothing deals going on. It’s gotta be the flexibility they keep by not using the MLE or bi-annual if they don’t have to.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
GSW's or Pacers' 2nd round pick would be nice
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
-Calvin and Hobbes
Our 2nd rounders are pretty high
Now worth it
Have a trade exception and a smile
" Only build on positives , don't stack the negatives...Instead of criticizing , what was a positive?" - Donavin Darius
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
Getting something
for Amundson doesn’t sound absurd at all compared to two other facts included in this article.
A) The Pacers, Warriors, and Hornets all have higher payrolls than the Suns – Yet the owners are claiming poverty? Taking this fact alone, and not knowing anything at all about these teams front office structures, I would say the Suns are probably in a favorable postition to entice a return on Lou from one of them. Next time I’m ripping the Suns braintrust I’ll try to remember it could always be worse.
B) The Cavaliers did a sign and trade for Lebron James. I guess you could say they were just trying to make the best of a bad situation, but even I have some limits in terms of swallowing pride and dealing with humiliation. Plus it was only a couple days after King James held court on his ESPN afterschool special. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if I was scorned and embarassed in front of the entire world, I probably wouldn’t entertain negotiations with the person, or anyone affiliated with that person, who perpetrated the public denigration for at least two weeks.
by Jim Coughenour on Aug 18, 2010 10:18 AM MDT reply actions
Well, there's faces, and there's noses.
If we hadn’t gotten the TPE from Amar’es s&t, we would have been pretty screwed, and when we got it, a lot of people felt a lot better about Amar’e and the way he left. the pride belongs on the court – the front office has to make the team work, and I think Cleveland did the right thing by getting something for hwba.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Amare and Lebron
left on completely different circumstances though. I must have missed the post script on Dan Gilbert’s love letter to Lebron where it said “I hope this doesn’t mean we can’t still do business together. Have your people call my people.” Sometimes I have chosen to live in spite in spite of the fact that it’s been detrimental. Just seemed like a pretty quick turnaround to me. All that I’m saying is that if it would have been me, I wouldn’t have calmed down and went back to making sound business decisions that quickly. I guess it’s not completely absurd that the sign and trade went through, but it is absurd to me after how Gilbert reacted and if I put it in a personal context. Does that sound like a better perspective?
by Jim Coughenour on Aug 18, 2010 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wasn't being critical.
I don’t even fault the owner for his sense of betrayal, but the front office’s job is to put a team on the floor, and I thought they did the right thing there.
As far as Amar’e goes, I think people in Phx would have been much more upset with him if they had lost him for nothing.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
This should cause each team's management to take a long look at their organization:
The Pacers, Warriors, and Hornets all have higher payrolls than the Suns
Yikes.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Aug 18, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
A return on Amundson? Are you saying the Suns should sign and trade him?
by 8472species on Aug 18, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
uh yeah
did you read the post?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
I think that's what he meant when he wrote a whole post on how we can SandT Lou.
Like this one.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
maybe the Suns don't want a big man desperately
Since the Suns haven’t signed a big man, I’m wondering whether they want one very badly. Because if they were willing to have limited expectations, they could have gotten one already. I saw only last night that the Raptors had waived Dwayne Jones (everyone here except me probably knew that), so the Suns could just get him back.
I saw that Etan Thomas is a free agent, but I suppose he might not be in good playing condition anymore after his heart problem.
it could also be that the Suns are not enamored
with what’s available on the market, and they’re waiting for their new GM to return from Senegal (Basketball Without Borders) before deciding what to do.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions
i don't think we should rush into anything,
but i think we should sign DJones to an non-guaranteed contract before he goes to Italy
People love the Dunk, but i'll rather see a skillful athletic shot, a super 3-pointer from another area code or seeing players get Dragic-ed
by jatrex4suns on Aug 18, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Dwayne Jones
like the DJones signing idea. Think it would be cool to give this guy a chance. 16 rebounds/game in D-league? And does anyone remember those few minutes that he played, when he grabbed every rebound? Was looking forward to seeing what Dwayne Jones could do this year.
REBOUNDS ARE GOOD....
I’m just concerned that his scoring, specifically some sort of a mid-range jumper seemed to be missing. Even though I would not be surprised that with some work, he turns out to be better than Earl Clark. Unless Clark does a 180 from what he has done so far ……..he will be a BUST. I hope not but……
I really don’t want Lou to end up in New Orleans(they’re a playoff team with Chris Paul playing 60+games this season). Lou could strengthen their bench and I don’t want that.
Pick the Pacers!
Huh, so we could have two TPE’s around 6mil.
Don't trade Dudley!
by Beavis 25 on Aug 18, 2010 11:47 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
they can't be combined
People love the Dunk, but i'll rather see a skillful athletic shot, a super 3-pointer from another area code or seeing players get Dragic-ed
by jatrex4suns on Aug 18, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
can only use them as independent trades
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions
If we were going to use the TPE's and the cap space to get a high dollar player,
it would almost have to be a three team deal, wouldn’t it? For instance, we use the remainder of Amar’es TPE for one player, use Lou’s TPE for another, and the cap space for a third, and trade those three players (or different ones)to another team for one player near the max?
I’m not advocating it (although it sounds good), just asking if that is how a GM would likely look to get it done?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Yup, after all of their time restrictions ended.
That’s the long term way to combine TPEs with each other and salary, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a long term plan of our front office.
wellll
first, you need to convert those TPEs into players before the cap space becomes available. (which would be before JRich signs with someone else. till then, we’re over the cap unless we renounce him after the season ends). Otherwise, the TPEs go away once you have even 1 dollar of free cap space.
And if you’ve done that (converted the TPEs into real salary), then bye bye cap space, because we’d be back over the cap even after JRich leaves.
Afraid we can only use one or the other – TPEs or cap space.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
you could make a case though
that the Suns are already halfway through this plan (sans the cap space).
They’ve converted Amare’s 16 mil TPE into Warrick and Childress, with 5.7 TPE remaining for another player or two. The Suns are already too deep to add anyone else worth playing without subtracting at the same time, and that’s with not even playing Clark, Lawal or Janning yet.
Assets, folks. The Suns already have ‘em. If you add a TPE from Lou, then that’s one more, but it does add further complications.
I’m thinking we’d only use Lou’s (and Amare’s 5.7) in the even of injury at this point, unless its to get one more tradeable, combinable asset.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I think
CJ Watson actually went to the Bulls to back up D Rose since they traded Hinrich. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, I would hate to see Lou in a Warriors uni and have to play against him 4 times/year that would not be cool. Another second rounder that turned out good is Rashard Lewis just as an addition to your list.
Stoudemire to the 10th floor will soon be Warrick to the 10th floor!
by SunsFanForever on Aug 18, 2010 12:59 PM MDT reply actions
correct!
still a sign-n-trade. I just listed the wrong team. Thanks for the clarification.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
as much as I LOVE Lou
I really don’t care which team he ends up with. Even if he DOES go to GS, Lou isn’t a Suns killer. We are not talking about an all star player here.
I like the ability of getting a second rounder. We could even package 2 2nd rounders next year for a first come draft day. Or just trade for cash. More picks the better
I want Lou to go to GS!
I live here in SF, so I could get to watch him more.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
?
but would you wish that fate on poor Lou
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
At least we know he'd be going to a Western Conference team that couldn't hurt us.
So there’s always that reassurance.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 19, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions
true
but i like lou
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
I do too.
But I like the Suns more.
Out of the three destinations, I would want him to go to 1. Indiana, 2. Golden State, 3. New Orleans.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 20, 2010 1:29 AM MDT up reply actions
The Warriors just need to fire Don Nelson, hire a new coach, and try to trade Monta Ellis ASAP and they'll be fine.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
thats alot of need to's
I guess I’m butt hurt that after beating the mavs then fighting the good fight vs jazz they basically went and blew the team up. I don’t get it, I felt jilted and i wasn’t even a GS fan. you saw how excited the fans were…guess i just feel like that orginization doesn’t deserve hardworking players or thier own fans.
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
In regards to TPE, can you combine it with TPE that you already have?
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
We need draft picks and a TPE
We could get some draft picks and a TPE big enough to sign someone like Mark Blount, Earl Barron, or Dwayne Jones. This will fix our needs at Center, we can build in the draft for a more permanent solution.
Gani Lawal, Warrick, Turk, and some minutes of Rolo will produce just fine at PF for us (both offensively and defensively.
Good news
The good news (from Sarver’s comment is that a J-Rich trade is unlikely. Maybe we can keep J-rich, or get more for him down the road, if he wants to leave.
beats me
People love the Dunk, but i'll rather see a skillful athletic shot, a super 3-pointer from another area code or seeing players get Dragic-ed
by jatrex4suns on Aug 19, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe the comment about not doing a J-Rich trade before the season starts?
I think I recall something along those lines from Mr. Sarver.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 19, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions
mle & lou amundson
I posed this question to larry coon of espn a cpl of weeks ago,Actualy we cant sign lou all the way up to mle, It comes out to more tham 3 mill but its less than full mle-early bird plus 125% I dont know how he explained it but it was less than full mle,still would net a descent tpe.
dont kill me on this one its what he said,I asked because I believed we could sign him all the way up to the mle,Larry seem alright but he could be wrong,just thought i would throw that out to you guys
thanks
I’m sure he was right. I’d have to look over everything again so I understand it better.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
but
I dont see we why we couldnt sign him full mle maybe signing him just to trade him makes a diff,with byc,this stuff can be truly complicating
oh I know
we could sign him to X dollars (up to MLE), but the base-year compensation rule would only get us back 1/2 of X in a TPE.
Atlanta only got a 3-4 mil exception for Childress, even though we gave him 6.5 in yr 1.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Yeah, I see what he was trying to say.
We can sign Lou up to the average player salary per his early bird rights (which is the same value as the MLE), but if we do it in a sign and trade, since we’re over the salary cap, if Lou’s new salary is more than 20% above last year’s salary then the value of the TPE that will be generated for us is only 50% of the first year of his contract.
Could you link his reply?
Because I found your question about Lou on July 11th, but there is no response to it on his twitter page. There’s only one mention of Lou at all from July 9th to now.
ill try
Ill start jully 11 & look forward, i had forgotten the date,ive noticed some of his posts on the nba page of espn never show up on my twitter feed i dont get it,But ya ill research it to pal.
In fact, he only mentioned Lou twice the whole summer.
I think you might be confusing this with his answer to you about Gani Lawal.
see my comment above
I think I know what stevedavis means (via larry coon). we’d only get a TPE back equal to the base year comp, not the full salary.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I think he answered that on............
daily dime live-but still should be able to find an archive for that as well,the gani thing was just the other day
yah thats possible,thats kinda the same deal as childress with byc,we surrendered less than 4 mil of tthe tpe -correct
Is that?
I was under the impression we used 6.5 of Amare’s 16.5m TPE on Josh Childress, and 4.25m on Warrick, leaving the approx 5.75m.
only 3+mill went to atl cause of the byc alex do you have an excact figure? without looking at anything wax that 5.75 figure sounds like what I seen suns had left of tpe the other day.
Oh, again you’re talking about the value of the TPE that was created, in this case for Atlanta. When you said “surrendered” I thought you were referring to how much of our (Amare’s) TPE that we used.
Remember, we didn’t give Atlanta part of our TPE, we used 6.5m of ours to sign Childress, and a 3.25m TPE was created out of thin air for Atlanta.
right
we used 6.5 of our TPE to get him, but ATL only gets a 3.63 mil TPE for giving him up. Must the base yr compensation at play here, which would explain Coon’s response on Lou.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
But lou could be ahed to come back to us for a third year and suns would full bird rights,but with new cba coming who knows what if anything that could mean,if this stuff gets any more complicated in the next contract we should all befriend a lawyer to break some of this stuff down.
nah that's what twitter is for
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Too slow. We’ve been waiting two hours for an answer. Him thinking he can sleep when we have questions is unacceptable.
haha
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
thats exactly why the Suns brought in Lon Babby
and Portland’s new GM is a lawyer too (Rich Cho)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
well guys
Im getting set to leave for a vac in morning in my freetime I look for that coon archive,enjoyed the communication this eve,Again I apoligize for for taking you guys the wrong way the other night with my rude comments,look forward to friendly relationship to come,good eve guys!
enjoy
I’m off on vacation as well, till Sunday.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 18, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
NOOOOOOOO!!!! ALEX!!!!!
Just kidding….enjoy your chill time!! It will be tough though, I look for your posts everyday….very informative and entertaining!! Excellent post tonight. I really like Lou’s game, every successfull team has a scrapper with heart like him. Sometimes they are more of a game changer than people give them credit for…if he can ever develop a reliable 10-12 ft jump shot….KILLER. Personally I am torn between not wanting to face him 4 times vs really enjoying watching him play. I wish only the best for him…….class act!!
I'd actually start following my home team if the Warriors picked up Lou.
I live in San Francisco, and I haven’t found much incentive to be a homer Warriors fan. But with the acquisition of David Lee and Jeremy Lin, my interest has been piqued. However, if they acquire Lou, I’d actually start watching Warriors games.
Plus David Lee donated a new basketball court to my old elementary school. That’s just awesome. I still don’t know why the mayor of San Francisco made a David Lee day.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Lou
I really think the Suns should keep Lou…He is hungry and works his tail off..He has always given more then 100%.He has added so much energy to the team..It is always so enjoyable to watch Lou..I don’t think Lou has ever “short changed” the Suns or the fans. Please re-sign Lou…He can be a difference
Ugh, its Tough
Lou is surely worth 3 Mil a year.. I wish the suns had the pay roll of Jerry Buss and his magical eyebrows because if we could afford to resign him and his 10 mins a game it would be totally worth it Unfortionately this is not hippie LA and we dont have the cash for such luxeries
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Friend Us On Facebook
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Follow us on Twitter
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
