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Andris Biedrins - Potential Sun?
by FleurtheLion on Aug 9, 2010 9:44 PM MST
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PrintAndris Biedrins, a 6'11'' 24-year-old center currently on the Warriors, has recently expressed his frustration with the Warriors organization. In his interview, he specifically discussed playing with the Phoenix Suns and Steve Nash in particular:
"So, I guess, if they trade me, there could be some nice changes involved, maybe I’ll be on a better team, with better teamwork. When the rumors came out last year about me going to Phoenix, I would’ve loved to play with Steve Nash. Also, the Phoenix team, the city, it was all fun to think about. With a point guard like that, the game is different.”
http://www.warriorsworld.net/andris-biedrins-speaks-out/
The question is whether Biedrins would fit into our fast-paced system. As a young, athletic, tall center, he could potentially fill the void behind Fropez but he would take playing time from Channing Frye and Warrick. He would give us two centers with plus defensive ability to match up with teams with two strong big men and could be had for as little as a first round pick. The Warriors are known to be shopping him and he does not fit in their system. They would be happy to unload his 6-year, $54 million deal, maybe even for our trade exception.
In the 08-09 season, Biedrins averaged 11.9 PPG and 11.2 RPG with 57.8% FG shooting and 1.6 BPG... very respectable numbers for a 22-year-old center. Any input or insight to the possibility of this deal?
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I don't see why he couldn't start next to Robin
Even though he doesn’t have any offense beyond layups, dunks and put-backs you’d have to think the size, rebounding and defense with him next to Robin would more than make up for it.
He’s a bit overpaid but if we wanted to make one last run with Steve I think he’d be a good, realistic option to give us some size to match up with LA and much needed rebounding at the 4. Robin would really have to improve offensively to make this a success though.
I don't see them playing side by side at all
which would limit Frye/Warricks minutes
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Agreed.
He would be redundant next to Robin.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Yeah, we had this discussion regarding a Noah and Lopez frontcourt.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
we're having lots of discussions over and over
lately
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I have a strange feeling of deja' vu.
I have a strange feeling of deja’ vu.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Summer's making us all redundant.
Redundant…. redundant…….. redun……….dant.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Is that from the Department of Redundancy Department?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
The Warriors are known to be shopping him and he does not fit in their system. They would be happy to unload his 6-year, $54 million deal, maybe even for our trade exception.
I’m not sure how much trade exception we have left, but I’m pretty sure it’s less than $9m.
Also nine million per year for the next four years is a pricey pick up for a third center, especially one that averaged 8 points and 8 rebounds in 24 minutes for his career.
He also shot 16% from the line last year. Sixteen.
Yeah, but how many free throws did he shoot?
by 8472species on Aug 9, 2010 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
Rebounds - Career Averages
Biedrins – 8.1 rebounds in 24.1 minutes
Amare – 8.9 rebounds in 34.3 minutes
It would be nice to have a defensive force, and maybe Nash could take up the job of a personal FT trainer for Biedrins
by FleurtheLion on Aug 9, 2010 11:03 PM MST up reply actions
1.3 BPG, .7 SPG in 24 minutes
on the warriors = defensive beast
by FleurtheLion on Aug 9, 2010 11:09 PM MST up reply actions
His stats are good defensively, but frankly not that much better than Amundson (when adjusted for minutes) and for nine million a year for four more years… I don’t know.
Last year:
Biedrins
.056 blocks/min
.026 steals/min – 30% better
.338 rebounds/min – 13.8% better
Amundson
.061 blocks/min – 8.9% better
.020 steals/min
.297 rebounds/min
And we still have to give up over seven million dollars in players to make it happen. We could Sign Lou straight up with our TPE for probably about a third of Biedrin’s salary and still have money left over.
Your argument is crap, wax!!!
Just kidding. Couldn’t resist.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 9, 2010 11:50 PM MST up reply actions
We have
$5,736,611 TPE remaining from Amare and $1,071,720 TPE from Alando Tucker according to ESPN’s trade machine. We cannot combine the TPE’s with each other or with players.
Biedrins would be great IF he accepts the role of a back up center
The question is: who are we going to give up for him?
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
At this point in his career, he'd be wise to do so.
Prove that he can stay healthy and contribute on a winning team. Then, maybe, he can work his way back up. ’Cause he had a great ’08-09, but a terrible ’09-10. Injuries will do that to a man.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 12, 2010 2:38 AM MST up reply actions
would warrick and a 1st rounder work?
if we trade for biedrins our gameplan changes dramatically and warrick would be the only one i would be willing to move.
Hakim Warrick and the 1st round pick would be a great trade for us.
Another possibility would be a J-Rich for a Biedrins/Brendan Wright package.
by FleurtheLion on Aug 9, 2010 11:00 PM MST up reply actions
If the Suns offers him an extension and JRich declines it halfway into the season and Gortat or Horford is still unavailable
Then I’d go for it. But this would only go through if you give us the right to switch 1st round draft picks. If only you still had Randolph then you could have had our 1st round pick easily.
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
Another possibility would be a J-Rich for a Biedrins/Brendan Wright package.
This one would technically work, though Wright’s frequent injury history is a little concerning. He played in less than half the games each of the last (and only) two years.
We might think alike on this one, wax. Sort of, maybe.
I fanposted that we should trade JRich for AB a few weeks back, to mixed reviews. I’d still do it because I think that Turk/Lopez/Frye/Biedrins would make for a really good and versatile big man rotation. I’m not smart enough to figure out the minutes and starters, but having AB would really legitimize our D and rebounding, and he finishes well at the rim, too.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 9, 2010 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
a player like Richardson is a very steep price, agreed
I’d talk myself into it if Blanks/Babby made the move, but would have the nagging sense that we paid too much O to get the D. Childress would have to be ready to step up in a big way that we’re just not sure of yet. Now, if 25 games in Chill looks great and ready to score 18ppg as the starting SG, I’d do it then. Big “if” though.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 9, 2010 11:41 PM MST up reply actions
Assuming he can return to his 2008 #s...
or even improve on them, considering he’s only 24, I’d definitely pay 9 million for him if I were PHX. I mean, say he improves just slightly each year as he approaches his prime in 3 or 4 years. 15p, 12r, 2.5b, 1.5s is well within the realm of possibility. A defensive beast who doesn’t need his number called all the time to score his 12-15 points seems like the perfect Sun to play alongside all of the offensive options we have..
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 12:20 AM MST up reply actions
Nash/dragic
Richardson/childress
Hill/dudley
Turk/frye
Lopez/biedrins
our first team would be the same, but our bench would improve alot defensively. and in case if robin goes down, we have a really solid replacement i’d do it.
there's the biggest benefit
in case if robin goes down
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Alex,
How do you think he’d do in the PF spot?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
not good
he’s really a true C
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 10, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
Forget last year's injury-marred season. Look at 2008.
And look at this http://www.hoopdata.com/regstats.aspx?team=%&type=pm&posi=C&yr=2008&gp=0&mins=0
At 22 years-old, this dude had per 40 minute averages of 15p, 14r, 1.8b, 1s. His biggest problem has been that Don Nelson is in love with playing smaller, more offensively talented players. Put him on a team that really values him and let him go on a natural progression as he approaches his prime, and he simply explodes for Camby/Rodman-like rebounding and D, with better O than both of those guys combined. This is why I’ve been in favor of trading JRich for him ever since the Turk/Chill deals made Richardson more expendable.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 12:32 AM MST reply actions
As much as I like the signing of Childress
We still don’t know how he fare in the Suns system. Also, what if we pull the trigger too early on J-Rich and we miss out on a supposed franchise player? Also what IF he’s willing to take a pay cut just to stay a Sun?
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
right, the big danger is losing a chance at a franchise player
just because we’re impatient now
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But what if you get a1st round pick back as well?
I read that on an article from an Alex something-or-other I think.
Expendable
Turk/Chill both can play SG if Jrich goes. Right there starter and backup problem solved. Jrich stepped up for us in the playoffs, Turk can do that as well we hope like he did for Orlando.
We need Biedrins big time, he’s very productive for his contract , he’s young. I think we’d all be thrilled with Rolo if he developed to be able to get those per 40 stats averages of 15p, 14r, 1.8b, 1s.
Rolo is something of an unproven thing, he has shown great flashes but we know we’d be getting productivity from Biedrins.
Sounds like a possibility
I think adding Biedrins would give us much more flexibility at both he Center and PF positions. This would allow us to us Frye as a PF with Lopez.
Although he cannot shoot the ball to save his life…he is a very good rebounder and a good defender. This is one of the better scenarios I’ve heard yet.
I never liked Frye as a PF.
He has no inside game, and I feel like it’s the PF’s job to keep the defense honest and the outside defenders thinking about helping so the shooters can find open shots.
As a center he can draw the opposing center out a bit, freeing the paint of the oppositions primary paint defender.
Maybe as a PF he can also pull the opposing PF away from the paint.
sex is like math: you add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs and pray you dont multiply!
Should work better on a center
as the center is generally slower and a worse perimeter defender than the power forward, and the power forward is generally a worse paint defender than the center.
at least a dozen more times
before September, I’m sure.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Because it's an opinion, not a fact. And crazy thing, some opinions differ from yours!
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
I've said this before, but look at this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3934/splits?year=career&type=Fielding
79 starts at F for his career, compared to 56 at C. Nearly identical production from each position. Anyone can say that Frye is better suited to playing center, in our offense. And they can debate that point all day long and I can argue otherwise. But to say, unequivocally, that he is not a PF is ignoring plain facts.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
You can put him at either position
Either way, the guy who’s going to benefit is probably the guy playing inside, since it should open up the middle some.
Just to clarify...
I’m not saying that adding Biedrins would mean we SHOULD play Frye as a PF…only that it would give us the flexibility to do so.
It’s already established that we want to add a 3rd big…and Biedrins would be a very good fit in my opinion. Doing so would allow us to experiment freely with various lineups and positions to find the right fit.
I believe Frye COULD be effective as a PF, but that doesn’t mean I would want to use him exclusively in that role either. However, it would be nice to know we have additional options, that’s all.
It’s already established that we want to add a 3rd big
You mean the Suns have said that they plan to add a third role playing center with around 18 minutes a night?
Or the suns want to add a veteran’s minimum center who doesn’t mind setting up camp at the end of the bench until someone gets hurt?
I haven’t heard the former.
Not sure...
I only know that they would like to add a third big…the rest is up for interpretation. I was recommending Biedrins as a good fit for that roster spot, since if we are looking to add a player, it would be more beneficial if they could actually help us fill a need.
I have no idea what the front office is looking to do though.
Agreed.
I’ve said a lot at this point about how Frye could start at PF. I still think he could start and approximate his rookie #s when he started 15 games there (about 16p 8r 1s 1b in 32 minutes). But I can also ammend that with 7footer’s thoughts. He doesn’t have to start, doesn’t have to do it full-time. But to get a guy like Biedrins, we have a lot of guys not perfectly suited to PF who could still play great minutes there, depending on opponents and such.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 5:23 PM MST up reply actions
Clark + 2011 1st + Trade Exception?
Not sure Nellie would be crazy enough for that? But Dangling J-Rich might draw some interest.
Can't combine Trade Exceptions with players (or other TPEs)
We need to give up about $7.25m in salary to make the trade happen.
Love
If Childress can step up and serve as J-Rich or Hill, a deal would be much more likely.
Another possibility would be J-Rich’s expiring contract for Kevin Love (possible franchise player) from the Timberwolves.
On that note, I can’t believe the Suns didn’t make a move on Anthony Tolliver. A 3pt shooting and offensively capable big man, somewhat like Frye.
Jeha – I fully agree, the sky is the limit for Biedrins, he is just being stifled on a team that doesn’t value team defense at all. He continually picks up cheap fouls due to being the only capable defender on the court. Nellie’s ridiculous antics have always hurt him also.
And if any of you need to be sold on his potential, look at his 2008-09 game log:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3828/gamelog;_ylt=AiThnWnHgQZOFgcR5CwCFcv8PKB4?year=2008
more rebounds than amare can gather in his dreams
I don’t think Love is really a possibility. Part of the reasoning behind trading Jefferson was because they had Love. Also, the T-Wolves really have no need for an expiring contract. They have the lowest payroll in the league, and the worst contract they have might be the one they just signed Milicic to.
I agree with you on Tolliver though. Frye’s probably better, but he cost a lot less for a lot longer. I’d feel a lot more comfortable with his contract than Frye’s.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Aug 10, 2010 1:20 AM MST up reply actions
I'm thinking Tolliver was a one-hit wonder
but I could be wrong.
Don’t forget we have Warrick already, who I believe is a better overall player than Tolliver.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
That could very well be.
OK, this is not me questioning you as much as it is me trying to become more optimistic about the Frye signing: Why do you consider Tolliver to likely be a one-hit wonder, but not Frye (I’m assuming)?
Last season was the breakout year for both players. They put up pretty similar numbers last year per 36 minutes. The biggest difference was percentages: Frye shot 45% from the field and 44% from 3. Tolliver shot 43% from the field and 33% from 3. I think some of the difference can be attributed to the Nash effect, and perhaps even the Gentry effect.
Some other things to consider: Tolliver is 2 years younger, but 2 inches shorter.
I guess my question is: Do you think Frye is $4M a year for 3 years longer better than Tolliver and why?
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Aug 10, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
A 6'11" center that shoots 44% from three in volume may be a one trick pony
but it’s one hell of a trick.
haha yes
and Frye did it on a 54-win team who made the WCF, so he did it under pressure
while Tolliver did it for the Warriors…
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and Tolliver's was less than a season
and at least Frye had been productive earlier in his career, whereas this was Tolliver’s only big show
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
well actually Frye didn’t really shoot all that well under pressure :) but point taken.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Aug 10, 2010 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
Frye is a choke artist!
If you are saying that “he did it under pressure” because our regular season games had more importance since we had 54 wins that just is laughable. Frye had a really nice season, and he parlayed that really nice season into a really nice contract. One thing Frye does not do really nice is shoot under pressure. He wilts under pressure. THere is no real pressure in the NBA regular season. These men are paid to play basketball for a living its what they do. When there was actual pressure Frye missed something like 16-20 threes in a row. Wilting under pressure is something Frye will continue to do throughout his career. He is not clutch and does he doesn’t do it under pressure.
Yeah, but they are human beings, too.
Yeah, he missed a lot of shots in a row. He made a lot, too, and in the playoffs, including games 4-6 in the WCF. He had a couple of bad games – something I’ve seen Kobe, Jordan, Lebron, Magic, and Bird do, as well.
I wish I had your hot-tub time machine, so I could make statements as absolutes instead of suppositions.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
so you picked out a 4-game stretch
out of 100+ games played during the year. Fyre shot 40+% against Portland and SA, and then shot well in the final 3 games of the LA series, while also pulling down 25 rebounds in the final 2 games.
And I think your comment that there is no pressure in regular season games is laughable (using your words). The Suns spent the entire second half playing for seeding, and finally won the #3 seed on the final day. GS played the entire second half for draft position and Tolliver for a new contract. Not one game meant more as a win than a loss.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I can't agree that.
He’s a shooter, and all shooters have ups and downs. Sometimes the downs come at inopportune times, but I can’t write him off as a choke artist because of the bad stretch he went through in the Lakers series.
He had a few big games in the playoffs, game 2 against San Antonio comes to mind. I don’t see how you can state that he will continue to wilt under pressure throughout his career as if it’s a fact.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
yeah, i agree. im just worried if that rate is sustainable . i have no real reason to think that it wouldnt be, other than it’s historically and ridiculously high for a big man.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Aug 10, 2010 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
I really like Tolliver
Did you see his 1-minute spoof of LeBron’s “Decision” on youtube? Also, his game is not just distance shooting. He’s got some athleticism in him.
Tolliver is not a one-hit wonder
The guy can play. Ill assume that you probably only watched the guy play against the Suns which makes me wonder even more why you would make such a statement, considering how impressive he played against us. Beyond that, he is quite skilled offensively and plays with maximum effort on both ends of the floor. On a cohesive team with a defensive game plan his effort would prove to be very beneficial to a team on that end of the floor. Suns fan you are, decent talent evaluator you’re not.
we can't all be as great as you, Pick1Team
I’ll bet you’ve nailed every evaluation in your life. And you don’t deal in opinion, because all of your statements are facts.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
your all going about this wrong
Sure Biedrins wants to play with nash but so do so many other players.
our future PG GD and C RL is set why mess with thier chemistry of best buddies.
i think we need to look at our future SG position i would say instead of biedrins we need to look at Monta Ellis, Jrich for Eliis, b right and a first rounder should get it done.
i always seem to get the impression that GS want to get rid of Monta and he is THE upcoming SG in the league but with new management in place at GS we dont know what thier future is going to look like.
plus i think we have not signed a big man because the front office is waiting on toronto to cut someone since they have 16 on the roster and sign D jones back again. i dont mind if he is our reseve big man but i would like Earl Barron to sign for us he played well in mike d system last year with the knicks but the knicks have not rescinded his rights and they have curry,mozgov,turiaf and randolf and amare as thier PF/C. Earl is 7ft rebounder with defense at 30 years old maybe the bi annual exception for one year gets it done but i think front office is waiting for Blanks to come back to set the wheels of motion going.
P.S just saw inception blew my mind
"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."
there's a reason GS wants to get rid of Ellis
he’s a 6’2" shooting guard who can’t/won’t guard anyone, and is a ballhog.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
You use the term "empty offense"
Ellis’s points are the very definition of that.
by East Bay Ray on Aug 10, 2010 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
I have to ask this
I am not questioning whether Biedrins can really play defense or not.
What I am questioning is this: how is it that so many Warriors are good indivdual defenders, and yet they are consistently the worst defensive team in the league?
All of these guys gets credit for playing good defense: Mikael Pietrus, Matt Barnes, Anthony Randolph, Andres Biedrins, Kelenna Azubuike, and even Anthony Morrow (according to the Nets). I think I’m forgetting some, too.
And don’t say its just the system. From 2005-2008, the Suns had only Marion and Bell (and Joe Johnson or Kurt Thomas for parts) known to play good defense, and never once spent time on team defense as a whole. And yet those teams ranged from 13-17 in overall defensive efficiency.
So how are the Warriors SO bad, if they have so many individual players who are good at it?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
GSW = dysfunctional organization from top to bottom
They have a dysfunctional organization, and are rarely as good as the sum of their parts. Strong defense is a team effort; it’s not about individuals putting up good steals or blocks stats.
I haven’t looked up GSW team defensive stats, but where are they in efficiency? I know they give up a lot of points, but some of that is the same reason the Suns do, that their uptempo style gives the opposition more possessions. They are also a more freewheeling, less disciplined team than the Suns are. If you look at the best team they’ve had, the 07-08 squad that knocked off the Mavs in the playoffs, Stephen Jackson was one of their stars, and he is ostensibly a good defender. But you will be hard pressed to find a looser cannon in the NBA than Jackson, on both ends of the floor, and he was hardly the only guy on that team to chuck up fast, crazy shots that would leave them vulnerable to fast breaks coming back at them, or to gamble and lose going for steals and then cause the whole team defense to break down.
Side note: last season is a poor example for them because they were ravaged by injuries and plugging in NBDL refugees as starters during the second half. Of those names you mention, only Morrow was a significant player for them last year. Randolph, Biedrins and Azubuike were injured, and Pietrus and Barnes are long gone.
by East Bay Ray on Aug 10, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
ok, ignoring 2009-2010
2008-09: GS 28th, Suns 25th
2007-08: GS 16th, Suns 17th
2006-07: GS 9th, Suns 16th
2005-06: GS 15th, Suns 19th
So that was a very good point, Ray. GS has been good in defensive efficiency over that time.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Aug 10, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
GSW is my local team now, but I'm not really a fan
It’s too bad for them that their ownership change came so late because they seem stuck with Nellie for another year, and it’s time for them to move on without him. Injuries really did kill them last year, and I think it’s possible they can get to around .500 with the team they have now. The fans here deserve better. That team draws well, despite the team being constantly awful, and the arena being older and in the hood of Oakland.
by East Bay Ray on Aug 10, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
Two Words...Mad Scientist
Don Nelson is bad for the rest of the world…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Its the system...
No, not the offensive system Nellie uses (though I’m sure it doesn’t help). It’s his defensive system. Yes, he has a defensive system. It’s predicated on creating turnovers to run off of. As such, everybody on his teams always has a greenlight to overplay and gamble for steals or challenge for blocks. They don’t give up intentional fouls hardly at all. And they have a tendency to mix in some presses and traps from time to time.
No to Biedrins
He would be another “nice piece” on a team already full of nice pieces, and a highly paid one, especially considering we already have two solid centers on our roster. As others have said, if we’re going to make a deal, it should be to trade a few contributors for a star. Picking up Biedrins would just be spinning our wheels.
But, he does have that spiky, 80s, Ivan Drago hair thing going, and I know a lot of commenters here like to make hair jokes, so he does have that going for him.
We don't need him right now.
We don’t need Biedrins, or Kevin Love, or any other names that have been floated in the last couple months. The frontcourt is set for now, allbeit with a couple guys playing out of position, but it’s set nonetheless. The guys we have now are the guys that will be playing the season opener.
Where would another C play, theoretically? Someone would have to get moved out (someone besides Earl Clark), so who would that be? Our frontcourt consists of guys that have already earned their starting spot (Lopez, Hill) and guys that were just brought in. At this point, in the interest of sound decision-making, no one is really moveable.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
nothing is set with this team
you want it to be set, but Sarver wants to use his pieces to make trades. Everyone but 3-4 guys is moveable as the season progresses. And it is especially “unset” if guys play out of position and don’t produce as theorized (e.g., Turk as PF is a theory only at this point—a theory that probably most of the league thinks unkindly of).
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 9:28 PM MST up reply actions
I think it's safe to assume that the roster is set until October
Is what I was trying to say. I didn’t clarify properly, perhaps.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I’d be all for him, but there is no way we could make it happen. Trading Warrick and Clark wouldn’t be enough and you can’t combine the TPE’s with players or other TPE’s.
This is a good back up plan though if the Turk deal doesn’t work out. We could try trading Turk for Beans at the deadline and that would financially.
However, getting Beans means we have to move Frye to PF. He can play PF, but doing so actually decreases his value on our team because we need him to stretch the defense with his threes. Centers are slower at closing out on 3-point shooters. That is why for us Frye is best left at the C.
There is an alternative to this though. If it becomes clear that our team is struggling to win because we just can’t rebound enough than I say go after Beans if he is the best option available at the deadline. I’m sure teams will give GS offers for him because they know he wants out. In fact GS themselves may even try to trade him. What we could do and this only works if Turk is actually playing well for us and giving it his all; is we trade both Frye and Warrick for Beans. Than that backup PF spot could be filled by someone else like Lawal or Clark or we could use the rest of the TPE to go and pick someone else up.
What do you all think?
Don't trade Dudley!
"Just say No..."
No to Biedrins or any other over priced back-up… Robin is the future and whomever we get needs to acknowledge the following:
1) They get paid diddly divided by squat…
2) They get very little court time…
3) They need to be mentally and physically ready in the event Robin goes down..
4) Play within the Suns system and do what’s asked of them…
5) They will like all the above and be a good teammate about it…
6) Sign up for account at BSOTS
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
In other words
We need to resign Jarron Collins and include a contract clause that makes a BSOTS account mandatory.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
I always wondered if those guys frequented or visited places like this.
It’s probably not easy to listen to people discuss your talents and flaws in detail, especially when one of our favorite pastimes is playing GM and treating players like commodities.
Think any of the Suns come here to see what the rabid, computer-literate fan’s think of them, Seth?
All I can say is...
Better not bust, Frye. Yeah, I’m talkin’ to you.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Especially if we bagged on them like we did Taylor Griffin...
Now that I think about it, this may be the reason Earl Clark can’t seem to ewedge his head out of his butt…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Are we really that powerful?
If so, Earl Clark must be losing sleep over worrying what Alex or Scott is saying about him. Don’t worry Earl, you can go back to sleep.
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
I think they likely learn to stay away
because opinions are never at a shortage on a blog. Even Nash gets bashed.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Scott is.
He’s the Steven Wright of BSOTS.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
No it isn't...
I’d rather have Steven Wright….At least he brings value to the table…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
What if we sent JRich back to the Bay Area,
…and they sent us Biedrins, assorted parts, and 2 1st round picks (one with minimal protection).
That creates more questions than answers.
Who would take all the leftover minutes in the backcourt?
Whose minutes would Biens take?
Who in their right mind would trade 2 first round picks for an expiring contract?
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
Who thinks anybody in GS is in their right mind.
And Biedrins contract is going to be killin them for a long time still, so they might be willing to part with a pick or two to get out from under it.
Biedrins looks good
This looks like a possibility. We could use Amare’s Trade Exception for this year.Don’t give up J-rich!! Too valuable. We could give up Clark, and maybe Dudley (especially if he wants to go). Don’t we have 5-6 Million in Salary Cap Left in addition to trade exceptions?
Don’t give up any draft picks! !
Can we use this? Can we combine a package of salary money with the TPE?
Or maybe we can give the GSW a trade exception of our own for some of the money— They pay the rest, we give them a trade exception.
Biedrins is a better player than Eric Campier, and would cost less. Maybe he would take less to come to PHX.
Meanwhile, I don’t think he would take Minutes from Frye/ Rolo. We would need to Centers on the field when playing long teams (Lakers, Celtics, etc.). We Might have Rolo and Frye play some minutes at PF this year.
I think you will see Turk as a backup for J-Rich, and J-Chil and Warrick as a back up for Hill more than you think. (When Warrick is Hill’s Backup, J-Chil will back up J-Rich.
We especially need another Center because Turk and Warrick are lighter than Stat, Lawal is a rookie, and we didn’t sign Collins.
First, Give up Clark, then Dudley, then Warrick.
uh no
trade exception has to be used alone
no cap space left, because sarver is not cheap
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I don't agree with those who are saying "No, wait for a franchise player to become available."
I think Beidrins is this ][ close to being a franchise center in the near future, if he’s just used right. The reason he only averaged 10-12ppg in his best years so far isn’t because he can’t average 18, IMO. It’s because he played in Nellie’s system that heavily favors the Barons and Maggettes and Stephen Jacksons (and now Ellis and Curry). He’s been the 5th option on the floor and still slammed home 11ppg because he has great hands and finishes well near the rim. He might not have any offensive moves, but put him at the rim and he’ll convert. 9 million for 15ppg, 14rpg, 2b, 1s is fine with me. Noah will get more than that most likely for the same kind of production.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 8:35 PM MST reply actions
he is redundant with lopez
can’t play them both at teh same time and win a lot of games
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
says you.
There are those who believe Lopez can become a good PF. It’d take a few hundred thousand reps shooting 12 footers at the elbow, but if David Lee could do it (he couldn’t hit the ocean from the beach when he entered the league, but now he hits midrange shots with regularity), why couldn’t Lopez? The defensive plusses would even out the offensive minuses, IMO. And there would always be super offensive lineup options for Gentry to use—the whole Nash/Chill/Hill/Turk/Frye kinda deal. It’d be a team with all of the lineup and style possibilities great teams have—ultra defensive lineups and ultra offensive lineups and in-betweeens, too.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 9:24 PM MST up reply actions
woops. Meant to call you a lemming here, not there.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 9:31 PM MST up reply actions
I'm here to learn, and Alex teaches me.
He did let me down once, though.
Just once.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I'm teaching him
how to talk out of his ass without an echo.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
And it's working...working...working...working...
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Fortunately i already had that skill prior to my arrival at BSOTS..
They are, however, teaching me how to take it to new heights…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
You shouldn't hang me on a hook, Johnny. My father hung me on a hook once. Once!
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Lemming.
Oh there I go again name-calling. Oops.
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 10, 2010 9:30 PM MST reply actions
Jeha is right
What I mean is that Lopez could play some PF (Screen, pick and Roll, etc. [Maybe 7-10 Minutes]), if there is another Center on the Field. I’m not saying he will be the PF. With no Stat, lots of players will play some PF at one time or another. It’s a new system without Stat.
More to the Point, Rolo was a PF/C in College (Like Gasol is now)— When he played with his brother Brook.
Having much versatility would be something that is hard for other teams to figure out.
We have a 3 point barrage line-up, and defensive line up, and an offensive lineup.
By the way, Is it possible to use the Stat TPE and give GSW a trade exception (Worth 3 Million or so) of our own? We do have the cap space this year 4.75 Million.
We could get even more cap space if we dropped, or preferably, traded, Clark.
TPEs aren't given or traded. They are generated out of thin air during an uneven trade.
We can’t really “drop” Clark either this year, but we could try to trade him. However, he’d really just be a throw in to any other trade to make salaries work, as his value isn’t particularly high right now.
Well, couldn't we use the TPE
Couldn’t we use the TPE and pay the difference in salary?
Or conversely, since the Biedris is more than the TPE, can’t a TPE be generated out of thin air (from the remaining Salary Cap money?
No sir.
We are over the salary cap. The TPE allows us to continue to trade for players over the salary cap up to the value of the TPE, in this case $5.7m. Any more than that and we’d be violating salary cap rules.
If we had the $9m in salary cap space available to accept Biedris, and he were traded to us for nothing, then the trade would go through and a $9m TPE would be generated for the Warriors.
Can a TPE be Combined with Draft Picks?
How much is a draft pick worth?
Can it be used to make up the difference between the TPE and the contract?
Trade only one Draft pick, preferably in 2012.
Then Trade Clark with another team to get a Draft Pick Back.
A TPE is not a "tradeable item" in the way that you're using it.
Read questions 1, 2, 19, 20, 71 and 72 for a better understanding of the salary cap and the traded player exception.
And draft picks themselves don't have any value against the salary cap.
So while a draft pick might have value to a team in exchange for a player, a draft pick has no salary until it’s used in the draft, and doesn’t count towards anything one way or another when it comes to matching salaries in trades and using exceptions.
But it could be used to make team owners more or less interested in trades.
Maybe. But all I want to know is, can we combine the TPE with players in a trade??
I'd reply, but it'd only make you think I care.
by JeHa on Aug 11, 2010 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
How about Clark, Dudley, and Griffith for Andris with a TPE to GS of $4.3 Mil?
Would it be possible to trade Clark, Griffith, and Dudley for Andris and make up the Difference in a TPE?
Another Question: Can you use a draft pick to "Redeem’ part of a TPE that you have used?
Such as, we give a Draft pick to Chicago, and they give $3.3 Million of Amare’s TPE back (used to get Warrick)..
i wonder if we could trade Warrick, but I thought that we couldn’t, he wasn’t tradable.
By the way, do you have a link that explains the NBA rules that you could post.
One other question: why didn’t we just let Amare Walk instead of getting this TPE— Then this deal would work.
Perhaps we will have to do nothing and wait until next year—Or maybe just shop around for a Center worth $5.7 Million or less.
What about Earl Barron?
Could Earl Barron be signed— Why didn’t we get him as part of an exchange with Amare?
Would he fit well with the team? How much would he cost?
You don't go down without a fight....
You’ve worn me out…I see you are pretty good at producing frustration….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Anybody know what the Warriors want back?
I mean, do they want a guy who can help them win right away, or are they looking for expiring contracts to bring in a free agent, or do they want draft picks, or what?
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