Phoenix Suns Pre-Season Predictions: Knicks in Playoffs, Suns No
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 6:00 PM MDT
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintThe Phoenix Suns are again watching the the professionals count them out. The experts at the big media outlets have already dropped the Suns in their power rankings, taken shots at the Suns bench, over valuing Amare Stoudemire, and grading the Suns off season moves anywhere from mediocre to dismal. I've held my tongue, or fingers in this case, from busting out a vitriolic retort. This time though, I couldn't resist.
The SB Nation Bobcat fans are taking their turn disrespecting the Suns. The SB Site Rufus on Fire took a poll. And If you can believe it, some Bobcat fans think they have a better shot at the playoffs than the Phoenix Suns. I know, I know what your thinking. But It's true.
And you cannot dismiss these folk as a bunch of idiots. Fact is, these people are so knowledgeable, they've guessed 13 out of 16 playoff teams successfully the past two years.
Now, it is not my intent to start a blog war. But as some famous someone once said, "Don't start nuthin', won't be nuthin."
Now before I begin, I would like all to know that the poll didn't say that the Knicks were better than the Suns. It would be beyond preposterous to make such a statement. The poll seems to say simply, the Knicks will make the playoffs and the Suns will not. Nevertheless, i thought I would do a little comparison between the two squads just so we all have things straight. Following the brief comparison I'll get to the heart of the matter here.
Comparisons
Starters (as of depth charts dated 9/10/10)
| POSITION |
SUNS |
KNICKS |
| PG |
STEVE NASH |
RAYMOND FELTON |
| SG |
JASON RICHARDSON |
BILL WALKER |
| SF |
GRANT HILL |
DANILO GALLINARI |
| PF |
HEDO TURKOGLU |
ANTHONY RANDOLPH |
| C |
ROBIN LOPEZ |
AMARE STOUDEMIRE |
This comparison is kind of a joke. MVSteve vs. Raymond Felton. Sure, Raymond's a nice player. But, he's no Nash, and my prediction is that Amare is going to find out before any of us the difference between the two players. Need I say anymore? OK, I will. Felton ranked 25th in the league among all PG's in Asst/TO. He averages about 6 assists per game for his career. I would think that number may increase with a finisher like Amare on the squad, but let's face it, he's going to have to figure out Amare's game while overcoming his own shortfalls. And if he doesn't in a hurry we'll probably see a NY style media blitz whereby some offhand comments between the two turn into an all out war which wont help Knick chemistry, or put some numbers in the W column for the Knicks.
Jason Richardson Vs. Bill Walker
Really? Seriously? No. Walker has 64 games as a pro under his belt. There's no reason to even compare numbers between the two. J-Rich is a proven veteran, a prototypical, multi-dimensional SG in the NBA.
Anthony Randolph Vs. Hedo Turkoglu
Randolph is a nice player and will most likely grab more boards than Turk. But not unlike Walker, we're talking about a kid with 96 games under his belt. Turk is a proven vet, a multi-dimensional guy with a high NBA IQ. And while he's most likely not going to put up Amare-type numbers, we all know Turk is a different type of player. He'll be shuffled around at 4, 3, 2, and even 1 (point forward) at times. The Suns will no doubt be needing rebounds from every player on the court, but I'll take Turk's game over Randolph's any day. In terms of battling the boards, Turk may lose, but in terms of possessing multiple skills, and creating mismatch nightmares, I take Turk.
Grant Hill Vs. Danilo Gallinari
Gallinari can prove lethal when he gets his shot rolling, but he's too streaky right now. He ranked 125th in the league in FG% among forwards (42%). Grant Hill-60th at 48%. Of course a D'Antoni run team is going to encourage guys like Gallinari to shoot when his fingers get near the ball. Comparing FG% among the two isn't quite fair as Gallinari tossed up 200 more FG attempts than Grant. The two also play completely different games. Gallinari is expected to score and he was most likely in diapers when Grant Hill was winning championships at Duke. Hill's role includes a mid range/slashing game, playing D, grabbing rebounds, and at times, facilitating the offense. Let's not forget his locker room presence.
If you asked me though who I'd rather have on my team right now, I'd have to consider the importance of Hill's role on the Suns for the moment, knowing he is a year or so away from retiring versus Gallinari's youth and assumed ceiling. So I'll side step the head to head comparison and just say i am happy Grant Hill is a Sun.
Amare Stoudemire Vs. Robin Lopez
Well this is what it's all about right? I mean this is what the critics are pointing to when they say the Suns are no longer a playoff contender or perhaps will barely slip in. Here's where the Knicks may be stuck with a hobbling, shell of a player in 3-4 years time and the Suns will be developing a new beast. I suspect this is also why some Knick fans feel so confident in their team. Well, New York, enjoy your Amare. He'll play pretty well for you. Enjoy him when he posterizes the Anthony Tolliver's of the NBA, and enjoy him when you drop it into him down low with 3 seconds left and he muscles up a brick off the backboard as time expires. Enjoy him when in the third quarter of a tight game he gets lost in Amareland, thinking about the club he'll be up in after the game, totals 20 uninspired points and gets outrebounded by Raymond Felton. (Keep in mind I wanted Amare to stay, but we all know in different times Amare wouldn't have gotten the contract he did. Of course we are talking about the Knicks. Nevermind.)
I suppose Amare gets the advantage here based on numbers, experience, and Lopez's health (or lack thereof). But keep in mind Amare has his own issues to worry about. Keep your shades on, Amare, we wish you well.
Bench
I am chuckling again....Frye, Dudz, Warrick, Dragon, J-Chill vs. Chandler, Douglas, Turiaf, Fields, and Azubuike. Again the Knicks have a few nice players on the pine. The Suns could use a Turiaf down low for example. But as a unit, the Suns second group is one of if not the best in the league. They have chemistry, talent, and a swagger that not many teams have in a second unit. So, um, advantage: Suns.
Brass Tacks
I realize the real issue here, and it isn't a player by player comparison between the Knicks and Suns. That was kind of a masturbatory exercise or turf defense, or perhaps my own subdued anger. Here's a post from Rufus that gets to the point:
The Suns' spot (unintended pun) depends on a few things
- Carmelo: If Melo is traded, it’s likely the Nuggets will ship out another big name or two and enter the rebuilding mode.
- Yao: If Yao is healthy and plays most of the season, the Rockets should be in. Scola is playing out of his mind this summer and I don’t see why that should stop him in the regular season. Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, Shane Battier, Scola, and Ming is an incredibly formidable opponent comprised of quick, sharpshooting guards and punishing low-block scorers.
(Now if I may-the following is to be uttered in Samuel Jackson's voice):
Obviously the West was the stronger conference last season as a whole. Every team that made the postseason had 50+ wins. Meanwhile 4 of the East's 8 playoff squads had less than 50 wins. So while the Suns depth may make up for Amare Stoudemire's absence, they are still stuck against tough competition. As the writer above alluded to, if Denver pushes the nuke button, that's one less squad to contend with. But let's keep in mind how Denver fell apart down the stretch last season like David Hasseholhoff's hamburger. 'Melo or no 'Melo, it may not matter at all.
But the suggestion above, as I perceive it, is that if Amare's departure results in 5 or so less wins, the Suns could be on the outside looking in. This is a very real possibility. However the WC doesn't appear to have changed a whole lot. there is also a very real possibility that if Denver drops out of the playoff picture, (barring a huge surprise from someone), the only two teams that have a shot to take that spot are New Orleans (with CP3's return) and Houston. To be honest though, I don't see the Hornets surpassing the Suns. While CP3 is great, and Thornton showed some nice flashes, the gimpy Peja is another year older, Ariza reminds me of a younger, less disciplined Matt Barnes, and 31 year old David West is not going to carry a team through 82+ games alone.
The Rockets are also much improved with the addition of Yao. In fact, a look at their roster on paper and they are loaded. I could see the Rockets knocking off another squad to take one of the 8 post season spots. But do we really think Yao can stay healthy? Not me. Not for 82 games. As far as the rest, Sacramento has improved, and the clips get Blake Griffin back but it's going to be the usual suspects battling it out come Spring time.
The truth of the matter here is that the Knicks really haven't improved themselves that much. This team is building for 2012 and beyond. Adding Amare helps, but without Nash, he won't be the same. Gallinari may improve into a double double threat (he may need to with Amare attempting to rebound next to him). Meanwhile the Suns face some serious question marks, but they have the talent, depth, and chemistry, and Steve Nashness to pull it together and make another run. While the Suns can at least envision 50 wins, the Knicks will be lucky to see 35.
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too funny
i really dont think the knicks fans were saying that the knicks were better than the suns, simply that the knicks had a better shot at making the playoffs than the suns did. its not that crazy, the east sucks, besides miami, boston and orlando, who else is gonna keep the knicks out?
i think the suns have a fair chance, but i also think they are a 6-8 seed if they make it. we will see tho. making the playoffs in the east as a 7 or 8 seed doesnt even mean you have to have a winning record. dont get all bent out of shape. i dont think many would predict that the knicks will win more games than the suns, just that they will make the playoffs in the crappy crappy east.
they also had the suns behind the nugs by a mere 100 votes. thats pretty close and would be what i would consider a toss up.
that being said, i think they over-valued the rockets. i think the rockets, the nugs and the suns all duke it out for the last 2 spots. i also would not be surprised to see utah drop down. suns have an excellent shot at making it.
Buffalo, that's where it's at baby. - Adam 'Pacman' Jones
To us winning is a tradition. We are victors and need not explain. You may hate us, but your girlfriends love us. - BC
One more than Shaq. - Kobe answering how it felt to win Championship number 5
i really dont think the knicks fans were saying that the knicks were better than the suns, simply that the knicks had a better shot at making the playoffs than the suns did
i know, i mentioned that in the post.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I have 100% confidence that the Suns
will not give a shit what any other team is doing, or whos hurt. The Suns will just win 55 games and get a top-4 seed.
This is a team that, with only Nash as the constant, has averaged more than 55 wins a year since 2004-05 (62,54,61,55,46,54). And NASH is the only guy who’s played all 6 seasons. Don’t forget that Amare missed 1.5 seasons.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Sep 10, 2010 6:13 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
And more importantly..
…don’t forget that Amar’e is more interested in himself than he is anything else!
God dammit I love you Alex.
The NBA: Where Scott Howard happens.
You go girl!
I’m bored of Knicks fans. Quit boring me Knicks fans!
Their offseason was below average, they know they’re still struggling but they’re clinging onto the hope they might get into an Eastern conference which has clearly improved leaps and bounds.
Good luck with that!
And just for the record, I believe in our team. We will once again be the little team that could and we WILL be in those playoffs.
The NBA: Where Scott Howard happens.
ah, a keify sighting.
put anyone in jail recently?
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, but not too many people.
Last one was for…hmm…what was it for? Oh yeah, being a complete bellend.
That’s a law over here. Along with the ’I’m gonna do what the f*ck I want because I can’ law.
How’s things over here?
I want to do a straight swap with my girlfriend for Basketball Girlfriend. How about it?
Amare will drop 25+ ppg this season
No question he will be in the top 5 in the league in scoring. Scratch that Wade and James are on the same team, he will be in the top 3 in scoring.
There’s no reason NY can’t nab a 5-6 seed in the East. Granted its a cake conference after the cream of the crop but
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 10, 2010 6:47 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh, Amare will put up points
That’s an easy call to make. But, how efficient will he be? What % will he shoot from the field? Will he play defense? Will he rebound? Lots of guys score a ton of points and don’t help their team win all that much. I live in Warrior country here, east of Oakland so I understand this concept well.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 10, 2010 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions
And thats kind of my point
He makes great plays but isnt a great player.
He takes plays, quarter, halves, sometimes games off.
If i had a dollar for how many game recaps included the words: “Amare Stoudemire looked disinterested for much of the game”….I ’d have like 15-20 dollars i think.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions
25+ points does not equal playoffs
ask Monta Ellis and a host of other high scoring, Aruba-vacation-in-April NBA players
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
NYK will likely be either a 7 or an 8 seed.
The top 6 are all but locked, which leaves 2 open spots. CHA and CLE are regressing. That means those 2 spots are there to be claimed. The Knicks had a decent offseason, bringing in Amar’e and a lot of good role players (BTW, I don’t see Walker starting; Azubuike and Chandler seem to be the favorites). I can’t really see 2 teams that are better than the Knicks, especially with D’Antoni coaching (we know what he does in the regular season).
The Suns have a much more difficult task. We still don’t know how this team will play out on the court, so I can’t feel comfortable locking them in. The West is just too tough and they have a lot of questions. LAL, DAL, POR appear to me to be the best teams. Then there is a big jumble with PHX, UTA, HOU, SAS, DEN, and OKC, all of which have a lot of questions and can either be really good or pretty mediocre. Then you have NOH, LAC, and MEM waiting for some of the above teams to falter.
I definitely think the Suns will make the Playoffs and they are definitely a better team than the Knicks, if I had to bet money I would probably put it on the Knicks.
Amare will buckle under the scrutiny of the ny media he will see the grass aint greener on the other side,Also does everyone remember how he used to bitch about playing the 5 for donttoni? Now he got his 100 mil no one else would give him and its all peachy,When and if the knicks struggle hell use that as an excuse that hes not a everyday center.Maybe well get “lucky” and make playoffs the same way he said odom was “lucky”
anthiny randolph is dripping with potential and if he can pull it all together this season I can see his production surpassing turk's. (Hey, it is a possibility)
But people forget that we have a wildcard on our team that can basically change the course of our season, and that is just by playing within the boundaries of his talent. His name you might ask? Earl Muthafuckin’ Clark, BItches!
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 10, 2010 7:09 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Also, Amar'e not having nash will probably motivate him to try his hardest and average 27 and 10 like he did during the second half of the season last season.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
I also think that D'antoni is going to come up with something to prevent amar'e from playing teh five; possibly having a 6'11 AR play the
five?
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
AR will be destroyed if he plays 5
Have you seen him play 5 in Nellie’s system? He looks both awkward and awful.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
He's 6'11 and 220
And him guarding the likes of Bogut, Howard, B. Lopez and Horford.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
I agree, but D'antoni's probably going to have to figure somethng out.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Timofey Mozgov
but hes never played a second in the NBA. We have no idea how much he will be able to contribute.
u guys dont realize how good amare is
When the knicks play us he will go for 40, no one on our team can guard him(definitely not robin lopez) I can see the knicks and suns both being 7 seeds. U guys will see the impact of amare leaving once we start playing the elite teams. I just don’t understand how u can hate on him like u guys do. Not many guys average 23pts and 9 rebs, u guys were spoiled by amare, so u r taking him for granted.
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 7:12 PM MDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Good point, but you can't dismiss the fact that Amar'e would be on cruise control at certain points during a game.
The second half of last season, Amar’e displayed the most consistency and effort I have ver seen from him and then he went and muddled it with his lackadasical stretches during the wcf.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
they were playing the lakers
Their front court is ridiculous, and he single handedly won a game in that series. They took it to 6 games, u think with hedo and warrick we coulda done better? I just think with suns recent moves that they are not aiming for titles, just playoff appearences
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 7:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
aiming for titles
true, very true.
the suns didn’t max out on anyone, and they didn’t need to. and it wouldn’t have been very smart.
the knicks are rebuilding, if even a knick fan cannot see that than something’s wrong. amare is supposedly the first building block.
the suns didn’t make all the awful money moves the knicks did so they don’t have to strip down the team to bare bones and muddle through NY and NJ types of seasons.
im not sure what your point is or how it’s relevent to the discussion here. the Suns are aiming to stay competitive and in the postseason, what is wrong with that?
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions
they took on bad contracts
They are financially handcuffed for a couple of years now. Shoulda maxed amare, at least they would have a shot to win a title in the near future
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 7:48 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
ya will let him have 40
And stay home on there shooters,not let guys like gallenari beat us ill take it!
the dude will be efficient he’s shot around 60% from the field for his career. Its not like he will have to play much D in the aweful East. There are plenty of ways to hide him and DToni is good at dat. Dude will drop 30 a game no doubt. Yeah they get bounced in the first round with the 6th seed but so will the Suns with the 8th seed.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
30 a game?
Ha, that’s good, man, really good.
The Knicks don’t have the ball distributors to feed Amare enough for 30 and he certainly isn’t going to be on the offensive boards enough to pull 30.
Put it this way, if Amare is hitting for 30 game, the Knicks will most likely lose 55+ games….
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 10, 2010 7:40 PM MDT up reply actions
he shoots 60%
Even If he scores 30 while shooting 50% they will be in good shape.
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 7:45 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Before this "Amare shoots 60% from the field" legend gains legs
For the record, Amare has shot 54% from the field in his career, and shot 56% last year. I shouldn’t even have to say that those numbers are mostly with Nash setting him up. How important is that? Amare’s FG% jumped from 48% (2003-2004) to 56% (04-05) in Nash’s first season with the team.
With Raymond Felton at point, Amare won’t shoot 60%, or 56%. Actually, he’ll be lucky to hit 48%.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 10, 2010 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions
If the knicks are playing from behind in alot of games
Look for amare to “settle” for that 16 ft + jumper.
agree
Some suns fans are just delusional about their team’s chances. I think the suns are a max 6 seed
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 7:42 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Dissagree
look at the roster coaching and charachter of this suns team ill see your six seed and raise you a couple spots.
YAWN.
Yeah right, we’re delusional. The Suns are screwed. Just like they were in ‘05 when JJ left, right? And last year when Shaq was effectively replaced by Frye. It’s the same old prediction of doom and gloom every year. Don’t you naysayers get tired of being proved wrong?
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
by RMason on Sep 11, 2010 2:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
All due respect
And I say all due respect because people seem less offended when I do…
This is a topic I can sink my toofs into.
There’s no doubt Amare’s numbers %%’s will drop, its only natural when tossing in 30 a game.
The kid doesn’t need Nash on the PandR to survive in the lane (as I suspect we will TRY with Warrick).
Amare was a complete threat with the best PG in the game setting him up. No doubt he will seem two dimensional without Nash feeding him at first. Honestly its sad to see him go back to the SSOL Coach, I think this kid is more talented than we all have seen on the offensive end. And we can all confirm it was DTonie (gay lord) that limited Amares defensive game since day one. He’s just never needed to step up his offensive game before, but with that shooting touch from outside, jeez it looks better than Dirk.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions
whoa so nothing is Amare's fault
its all someone else’s?
this kid is more talented than we all have seen on the offensive end
so the best offense in the history of the NBA was holding Amare back? Poor guy.
we can all confirm it was DTonie (gay lord) that limited Amares defensive game since day one
yet somehow Marion and Bell were able to play D, despite D’Antoni’s requests otherwise
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
And Kurt Thomas...and Boris...and James Jones
Those douchebags rebelled against D’Antoni and tried to play defense!
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
like other teams dont know?
He’s been in the league like 8 years, he’s played against every team in the league multiple times, there are hours of tape on him. I’m pretty sure people know what he can do. Its just he is too good to be stopped. Would u say cleveland can stop lebron james just cause they “know” him?
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 8:15 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
In general, the Suns have spent considerably more time with Amare than the rest of the league. There’s a big difference between seeing every move in Amare’s repertoire several times, and seeing every move in Amare’s repertoire a couple hundred times – especially when you know exactly how it is supposed to work, since you were a part of it.
Comparing Lebron’s offensive game to Amare’s is not realistic. Amare is a PnR finisher or a spot up 15 foot shooter. Lebron was the starter, finisher, and everything in between on the Cavs. Even so, whoever spent all that time guarding Lebron in Cavs practice is probably a better than average Lebron defender, yes.
Anthony randolph
A rand is no more a player than earl in my opinion until he can stay healthy and get on the court
Anyone who is bothered by what the media says about the Suns cares too much about what the media says. Our team should play to win a championship, not respect. Especially not respect in the form of pre-season predictions. Who cares?
by 8472species on Sep 10, 2010 7:49 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, but it gives us something to chew on, at least
Wil did a nice write-up, and it leads us to the “how good was Amare, and did the Suns do the right thing letting him walk?” argument.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 10, 2010 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, yes, I don’t mean to criticize how he wrote the article, only to pooh-pooh the media pronouncements.
Completely agree there
The only sport where the opinion of writers matters is college football. I love college football, but that’s one of its flaws: talking about who the best teams are instead of settling it on the court or field.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 10, 2010 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Amare Stoudemire
Have we ever had a poll on whether Stoudemire will regret joining the Knicks? We could, notwithstanding that polls are mostly pointless. It’s just that I thought of Antonio McDyess crying in the shower sometime after he rejoined the Nuggets (1998?). I have no reason to think Stoudemire is that sensitive, but I wonder whether he will regret his decision as much as McDyess regretted his.
McDyess is one of the two worst hard-luck cases I’ve ever heard of as far as promising players with knee injuries; the only one whose luck might have been worse is Danny Manning.
Also
Even with our 04 29 win season this will be the least talented team amare has ever played with maybe these 10-11 knick are just a little more talented than our 29 win team,they are all new to each other and with pressure and ny media I think stat will have a hard time carrying the knicks,I loved stat but I dont think he is much better than david lee good luck amare but I wouldnt trade rosters or chances with the knickerbockers.
that '04 team had
a roster similar to the current Knicks team, except the Knicks do have Raymond Felton while the Suns had LB starting at point for the last 30 games.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I think we are fine
Aside from the Lakers sitting on top, I still feel that a shuffle of the other top teams in the west would be about as accurate as predicting it based on statistical analysis and projection.
Dallas: So great right? Kidd is another year older, Beabous is injured, and they still can’t score down low. To be honest, I would take JRich over any of there wings. Plus, they choke in the playoffs year after year.
Portland: I feel these guys are over-rated. Chinese fire drill at center and Aldridge is solid (kind of like David West) but not special. Outlaw and Webster are gone, Rudy will be gone. That leaves BRoy, Miller, LA, and Camby at center. The “potential” tag they use to place on this team no longer applies
OKC: Yes Kevin Durant (or Avatar as i like to call him) is great if not amazing, but there is nothing significant downlow for me to be concerned. Jeff Green isn’t big enough, same goes for Ibaka, and Kristic is….not playing in the international game and makes little impact. They can’t win it on the wings alone.
Utah: Nothing on the wings with Deron Williams, Okur, and Al Jefferson. Al Jefferson is the anti-playoff. Enough said.
Houston: They need to pray that Chuck Hayes stays healthy, cause we all know Yao will not. Scola, Brooks, and Martin is great no doubt, but without Yao’s punch down low they will have problems. Also, is Battier really that great of a defender? I feel people still think of him as his college self where he was 6’8" and one of the bigger guys on the court playing post defense.
San Antonio: If Jefferson figures it out in black and silver, this team is the only one that scares me. Duncan and Ginobili have finally shown their age though. Parker, George Hill, and Richard Jefferson are still carried by those two. Changing of the guard, so to speak, needs to happen there if the Spurs want to reclaim recent glory.
We made it to the Western Conference finals with practically the same starting lineup except Turk is playing the role of Doris. That being said, those guys played too many minutes and did not have a bench to relieve them. Even if Robin is injured for most or all of the year, we will put our best foot forward, and have done so in the past, rather than plugging in center X for position sake. Even if Frye and Warrick play center duties for the year, I like our chances more than everyone except the Fakers. My belief in this stems from no Robin and a sweep of the spurs in the playoffs, along with no Amare and a WCF appearance anyway with Doris at center. We adapt where other teams do not. Simple as that. Any other team would have seen all the players we lost to free agency over the years and blow the team for rebuilding mode. We adapted, efficiently plugged the hole, and contended. GO….SUNS….GO
"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
And the teams back then were not as tough as they are now.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
well
OKC,SAS,POR,DAL,and LAL are better than us. SAS got tiago splitter btw, now there front court is set. If POR has oden for the whole year(doubt it) they will be a top 3 seed. Even without them they will be good they got aldridge,camby, and pryzbilla. Houston is better than us if they have yao. If denver has melo they are better than us. We just lost one of the best big men in the league, there will a fall off for this team. I mean I hope I’m wrong, but I think we get a 6 seed at best.
by forget on Sep 10, 2010 9:36 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Forget I concur 100%
Snowbird Youd be smokin the good stuff (as you should be) if you thought those teams were as simple as you stated. Remember we don’t have a PF who can guard other PF’s one on one for even one play. Amare sucked but could at least prevent his opponent from getting in the lane. Turk completely sucks too fat too slow he can’t even keep Oliver Miller out of the lane. No joke. And the teams you posted have solid PF play who will destroy Heidet.
Every one of those teams will post a better regular season record than PHX. I guess that posts as as 8th seeds which I would feel great with giving the fact that the West COULD look nastier than YOURE teams listed.
Its lovely to drink the juice boxes but you outta yo mind to think Al Jeff isn’t a better fit than Boozer. Al Jeff was only one of the few players to average 20+/10+ 2 seasons in a row. Who cares about the injury he will be fine, 2 first rounders is a steal for him!
Don’t even get me started about Durant, the kid is a winner he alone will post 50 wins.
And I may have more to say I just don’t remember it!
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Oden is like Yao
He will never play 82 games. Also I don’t see how Denver is better than us. Melo ain’t that good.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
Naw Denver aint better dan us. But we still have 7 teams who we know ARE better dan us in the WC. So we sittin at da eifth seed.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions
if kenyon martin and nene are healthy
they will bully us inside, melo is too big, fast, and strong for any of our defenders. and melo IS that good. I swear the only players u guys think are good are the top 3 players in the league. and of course steve nash haha
Naw I hear ya and if Denver could keep Melo I’d say we’d be bullied out with a 9-10 seed. Not to mention sleepers that could be sneaking in to push us to 12-14 with LAC and SAC ousting us, sheeot why couldn’t GS do that too we don’t have a whole lot of help on D.Lee or the Ellis/Curry combo.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but not completely
You tell me the matchups if LAC has a real Griffin or if SAC has a nasty Evans or a D.LEE who can dominate Hedo in the post. It creates problems for the suns.
AT least with Amare you knew you may not have the best defensive matchup at the PF but he’d be the most athletic of the defenders on the floor.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep Amare is athletic but he doesn't uses it well to his advantage
Chuck Hayes defends better. Blake Griffin is great at college and summer league but he has yet to play a game in the NBA. David Lee? It also goes the other way for him. Hedo might not stop him but he ain’t stopping Hedo too.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
Good Player development analysis for Young Suns
Hey guys Paul Coro once again delivers some good goudge on our new player developement dude – Nanad…something alphabet.
yep
that guy really sounds like he knows what he’s doing.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Amar'e's turnover numbers are going to be through the roof this year!
Steve Nash is my mancrush. But Goran Dragic is the 2nd coming of Manu Ginobili, which makes him just as tasty.
Very true
It will be interesting to see has his “give a shit” meter goes down throughout the season. I have a feeling for the most part he will be on cruise control most games.
It will also be interesting to see how D’Antoni handles it when it comes up.
Or how about NY fans as well?
Amare is a great player, but without Nash, and playing on a losing team, I just don’t see him caring that much this season. I expect lots of commercials and new shoes, maybe a reality show! haha
I am sick and tired
of all the Amare hatred around here.
The guy played his heart out for us, was a key to possibly the best multi-year era in Suns history, and came back from not one but two catastrophic injuries.
I defy anyone to name a big man who has given us more. Ever. I’m waiting…
The only one who comes close was Connie Hawkins and believe me, that was a LONG time ago. Since then it’s been a long string of Armon Gilliams and William Bedfords and Luc Longleys.
Amare is going to absolutely feast on the statues playing the 4 and 5 positions back east. I’ll be astonished if they end up lower than three or four playoff seed.
And while we’re at it, just shut the hell up about Diaw. He played great for us, everywhere from center to point guard.
by suns68 on Sep 11, 2010 12:18 AM MDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Love it Suns68, people will soon remember don't you worry what a gem he was when we're a .500 team
Hedo < Amare I don’t care what else you bring to the table.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:24 AM MDT up reply actions
I would be jaw droppingly baffled if they finish in the Top 4 in the East.
I mean just insanely shocked. Miami, Orlando, Boston, Atlanta, Chicago are all significantly better.
After that? Sure why not I suppose they could be 6.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 12:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the Bucks are just regular better...not signifigantly.
You can bunch Charlotte in there too
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 12:40 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the Bucks have a much more complete roster.
It’s true they don’t have elite talent, but they hav e a lot of good players that each contribute in a different way. They have Bogut who is one of the best Cs in the league. I’m not a big fan of Jennings, but he’s proven more than Augustin and Livingston. The Bucks are also really good at defense, which will keep them in and win them a lot of games.
Bucks have a legit experienced C and PG with a nice bench. I think they may be on the serious up and coming, not quite the elite level but why cant Bogut bully Illgalskus a bit??
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:47 AM MDT up reply actions
And Corey Maggette and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute and Ersan Ilyasova and Carlos Delfino and Chris Douglas-Roberts and so on and so on.
They have some serious depth.
Why can't they nab a 3 seed?
Thats a solid team with my 2nd fav young PG in the league. Kid dropped 50+ as a rook, that can’t be overlooked.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:54 AM MDT up reply actions
eh
miami, orlando, boston, atlanta are better, well probably ATL anyway
I dunno your 3-4 is arguable, they dont have a right to be labeled there.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:59 AM MDT up reply actions
It was against GSW.
And he proceeded to drop plenty of 3-11 games later in the season. Right now I have them as #6 with #4 as best-case scenarion.
yeah honestly i dont get it
why do they hate on amare? all he did is average 23pts and 9 rebs while shooting over 50%
not many people can top that
Yo man these talking heads are on here worse then Sports Center thats why its so fun to mess with them. You can argue the fact that he shouldn’t get a guaranteed contract for 5 years, which is fine. But these children like to think we can get back to a competitive team in the playoffs without him. This is obviously laughable so there’s no need to hate these chumps for drinkin Suns Juice but there is NO WAY AT ALL POSSIBLE to replace a guy like Amare over 1 off season.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions
and the reason they did that
is to insure that they get to the playoffs. it doesnt matter to them that they will be bounced in the first round. Its just frustrating that they made these moves that bring them no closer to title contention.
by forget on Sep 11, 2010 12:49 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree forget
Sarver is a business man, and I can understand his thinking. I also don’t loathe this team and think that something better is coming soon at the PF spot for this team. Sarver is not an idiot, he knows as well as gentry as well was Nash that Hedo can’t play the 4. So there is something good coming for us.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:57 AM MDT up reply actions
You don't know that.
In fact, you don’t know how the Suns sill play, how the other teams will play, what injuries will occur, what the referees will do, what players will be available or what trades may occur. So nobody really knows anything.
We have a very deep, very good team. Our bench alone could win us a lot of games – in the playoffs as well. We have deep playoff experience, and one of the best coaches in the league.
We could suck, or we could surprise everybody. I can see us ending up anywhere from 1-10 seed. It will depend…on a lot of things.
It ain’t kool-aid – it’s a fine wine, that needs to mature, and breathe, and be savored. That’s what I plan to do – and I’m excited about this season.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
ya
they all think its gonna be a cake walk to the WCF…..they act like they are so much above teams like Utah, houston, and denver. they are really not
SSOL
Has never proven anything its just fun basketball, and Sarver is a smart owner. This was his obvious choice since there wasn’t too much available without BIG money. I would just wish people could think for themselves, but i guess if they could they’d be too depressed witnessing Hedo going into next season as the PF over Amare…
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions
SSOL with
nash, joe, and amare might have one a title lol. If they just paid joe instead of diaw….
by forget on Sep 11, 2010 12:53 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
we don’t have to love every Suns move do we?
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 12:57 AM MDT up reply actions
dude
I’m just glad I found a couple people on this cite that think the suns moves were dogshit horrible this offseason. I know we love Alex Laugans posts about Hedo being a better rebounder/defender than advertised but lets be honset.
Hedo+Childress+Warrick<<<<<<<<<Amare+LB
And when you put it to dolla bills on the table its really Chill+Warrick for Amare because we could have landed Hedo anyway
I FIRMLY believe NASH is worth sacrificing 2 risky years at the end of Amares contract for a shot at a ring today… I"M willing as a fan to forgo those last 2 years of mediocrity to give Nash a shot at a Chip in the next 3.
I am not alone at this, I hate Nash for being a bleeding Liberal but he deserves a ring!!!
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
by PandRisDead on Sep 11, 2010 1:03 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
ya
i wouldve maxed him, hes was our best shot
You guys are definitely the same person.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:06 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I found something like this on NBA FanVoice.
Eventually the 2 were banned for extreme trolling, but we could never tell if it was really one person or 2.
No doubt, Boston maxed Garnett at age 33+ man its about keeping your boys happy. Amare ws the best shot, now we have to draft another 6/10 monster because we think Hedo can do the job.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Exactly how many season ending injuries had KG suffered when they maxed him?
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:08 AM MDT up reply actions
well amare has one more
but does the eye count? that injury isnt really a problem anymore?
amare eye
um yeah, why would he be wearing the shades if it wasnt a problem? and you forget he nearly lost sight in the eye…spending 24 hours straight on your stomach as part of the rehab denotes a serious injury.
his eye is just as significant or more so than his knees
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 11, 2010 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions
the eye can
re-detach at any point, from what I understand, just off a big hit to the head.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
How ironic would it be
if after all this worry about STAT’s knees his eye is actually the thing that causes him to miss one of those $20 mil seasons?
What year was that?
He signed that extension right when they traded him to Boston. (kicked in during 2009)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:13 AM MDT up reply actions
signed him another 60 mil before this season as a gesture of good faith.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
No. He signed that 60M extension when he was traded to Boston
Ends in 2012.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=kgnewdeal
But now we’re super off-topic.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:16 AM MDT up reply actions
that would be a lot more than 60 then since hes getting 20+ over the next 2 and he’s been there 3.
Still a gesture of good faith since I doubt Boston believed he could play to that level this many years in the league with this many miles and they stil payed him
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Dude.
Like I said above….he signed the extension when he was traded there and it kicked in during 2009.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:20 AM MDT up reply actions
yeah I know g
but he will be damn near 40 when this deal is done you gotta think Ainge calculated that before he extended him. They have a diff culture in Boston any shot at a chip is taken but you have to think they knew he’d be a slug towards the end of that contract. Similar to amare, wish we could have done it to do all we could for the socialist.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
He gave them a championship of course before they maxed him
But i think it may be unarguable that Amare was Nashs best chance at a ring. I love that little socialist too much I’d do anything for him to get a ring.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Nash is a socialist no question about that and i still love him, thats saying a lot since my father voted for Obama and I haven’t spoken to him since.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
dudes from Canada thats socilist/taxation haven good thing he can still dish up 10 apg or else I’d send him to the puppy mill
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
So if a country taxes their citizens more than the US, then they are Socialist?
You might need to look that word up.
Basketball, waxmonkey. Stay focused here.
Well, I am sure that this isn’t the place for me to explain why it is.
More importantly, I expect that it would have little effect on your belief and I’d much rather sleep. I’m pretty damn tired at this point.
its 330 here and I’m pretty damn sure I wouldn’t change your mind even though I’m right. Goodnight chap
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
What the hell does politics have to do with the chances of the Suns and Knicks to make the playoffs?
Yeah, nothing. Take that shit somewhere else. This isn’t the place for it.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 11, 2010 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly how did Nash became a socialist?
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
He cares about the poor and the planet in general.
He’s obviously a socialist. It’s not like he’s a good person or anything crazy like that.
I respect your opinion on that, I just feel the other way. I think (though it remains to be proven) that Hedo+Childress+Warrick will end up being greater than Amare+LB.
And I don’t think we ever really had the option to keep Amare. He wants NY. If our contracts had been identical (no non-guaranteed), I think he still would have chosen NY. And if we had paid more than that, we’d be being talked about in the same way the Hawks are – crazy for offering that much. And he still might have chosen NY.
weren't you the same person who said Melo wanted a ring and would go anywhere to get one because he's in that point of his career?
Well Amare had a legitimate shot at one. So under that logic if we fed him the Benjis he would have stayed.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
No, I said Melo wanted his own way more than anything.
Which, for him, probably means a ring.
For Amare, it meant moving to New York to be a star in the Big Apple.
I dunno man I’d say Amare wants a ring more than Melo but dollah bills come first in all circumstances.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
If a ring were his first love this off season, moving to NY would have been a hard sell – unless he has good reason to believe NY will vastly improve in the semi-near future.
I agree but you forgot money is always number one playa.
40 more mills guaranteed in NY if PHX gives him that I believe him he stays!
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Its tough to stick up for Melo’s character above Amare’s.
If you say Amare is chasing the bills you gotta say Melo is doing the same.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
You said Melo want a ring so he’d never come to PHX
You said Amare is chasing money in NY
I’m not following
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
No, I said Amare is chasing his dream of being a star in NY.
It is my opinion that this is more important to him than the money or the ring, though he certainly wants all three.
I think he had pretty good relations with PHX all along, if he really wanted the fame he could have just asked to leave. Suns management have known this cat since he was 18 I would have rather had that than gettin a crappy TPE for him.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
OHH WEE
give me some josh childress and hakim warrick
those guys are game changers
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
yea
i was born here. Im just frustrated with the direction the team is going. We r basically stuck in limbo for a couple years until nash retires.
See, I ask because you normally use the pronoun “they” when referring to the Suns and the fans, instead of “we” as you just did.
I found something like this on NBA FanVoice.
Eventually the 2 were banned for extreme trolling, but we could never tell if it was really one person or 2.
Just a fun joke my forgetful friend.
But the amount of m’s you put in your um let me know you were serious.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 1:10 AM MDT up reply actions
hah
thats awesome forget you are now officially my “John Reilly” do you like guacamole?
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
But lets look at that team compare to this one
2005 Nash > 2010 Nash
Diaw = Hedo
RoLo = Kurt Thomas
Frye = Tim Thomas
Marion > Hill
Bell = Dudley
Barbosa < JRich
House > Dragic (Only because Dragic hasn’t fully devolped yet)
James Jones < Josh Childress
2005 Team = 3
2010 Team = 2
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Tweetin' at @JaxisZ
Dragic > House
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Sep 11, 2010 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
RoLo > Kurt Thomas
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 11, 2010 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions
+1
Rolo >>>>> K Thomas in 2010-2011.
K Thomas could not keep up with the running game. D’Antoni couldn’t play him all the time, while RoLo can keep up. And K Thomas couldn’t be the roll man in the p-n-r. All he could do was shoot open 15-footers. Robin already averaged 11 pts per game in his starts, and he’s improved his offense this summer.
Robin Lopez > K Thomas
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Sure Dragic is the better player
but in terms of production House was better
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Tweetin' at @JaxisZ
which production?
pts? sure, because House took more shots.
but did House have as many assists and rebounds? and could House play defense, preventing his opponent from scoring even more points than he put in himself?
you use the “production” word to say House > Dragic because of PPG. but then you can’t possibly be using that same logic to say K Thomas > Robin Lopez, because Lopez scores more points.
Need consistency in argument here.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Nash is pretty much = to the Nash of 5 years ago. The guy really hasn’t slowed down. I don’t even think he’s even lost a step or two. His stats may be lower, but that’s only because of added depth. I know he is 36, but come on, Nash’s body isn’t like most athletes. For him this is his prime. 08-09 season was a fluke, when Porter left, Nash averaged 19-11 when Gentry took over for the 2nd half.
Don't trade Dudley!
Got no hate for the man
He played great for us. But there were times when you wanted to strangle him as well. Yes he was a big part of why we made it to the playoffs, but we all know he had some motivation behind doing this.
I just personally think he will find that the grass isn’t greener, except for the extra dough he’s making. But also saying the Suns are not going to make the playoffs and are going to be a terrible team this year just sounds like every other start of the season for this team.
Whats funny is I think even if the Suns found a way to keep STAT, all the writers, and fans of other teams, would still be on here saying we have no chance at making the playoffs and to stop drinking the “Suns Juice.” Just like they do every year.
Welcome to being a Suns fan.
nah
we would be a top 4 team in the west for sure
we had Amare last year and were picked for 9th
even with the assumption that Amare would be healthy
Look, I don’t think Sarver believes we are the best possible team right now. He said in a radio interview after these moves that the Suns are probably a fringe playoff team.
Suns mgmt has a plan – to use these assets (depth, reasonable movable contracts and future draft picks if necessary) to convert quantity into quality. Sarver has said many times that he thought the best way to get the next superstar while still making the playoffs is via trade.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
It's not Amare Hate. It's Amare Facts
We know he is offensively GIFTED.
We also know that he is not a great defender.
You think he will feast on the 4-5 Positions on the East. You are right.
There are many Inferior teams he should feast upon.
I know he will have monster games. We expect him to have monster games. But if there is one thing we have learnt, it is the fact that his monster games do not actually translate to WiNS.
There has been a study, which came to the conclusion that knowing and looking at his stats, They surprisingly, do not translate to many Wins.
That’s one reason that SAS’s POP would scoff at Amare having monster games of 30+ points in the playoffs.
Man I have it diff than you
Meyami, O-Town, Milwaukee, Chi, Boston, A-town/NY garbage hole
There’s no reason why we should leave Milwaukee out just for the fact that none of you know what state Milwaukee lies in.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Not every team can contend for a championship every year.
But teams do what they can to make themselves as good as they can be, and building from there. The Suns have a very solid roster and are only a franshise player away from being recognized contenders. They are building for the future while also putting out the best product they can right now. Even no something can happen and they can go on a run and upset some people. We just don’t know how things will play out so there’s no need for a doom and gloom attitude.
by Omaha Sun on Sep 11, 2010 12:57 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
well right
but i rather they just blown up the roster and started over with Lopez, dragic and dudley. At least then we could actually rebuild, instead of doing it on the run
agree again, Lopez and Drag will be studs but not for a few years.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
really, you'd sacrifice and win 20 games
for the chance to draft high, and maybe get that next superstar?
For every OKC/Seattle or Miami, there’s 13 dozen Clippers, GS, Minnys out there who have proven that “blowing up the roster” does not have a high success rate.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Assuming No injuries in the west
i’d put the Lakers and Blazers and maybe Dallas ahead of us in the standings come playoff time, although Dallas may be worse considering they rely a lot on 54yr old jason kidd. Some teams have legitimate problems that are question marks, like Houston (Yao’s injury history and their lack of playmaking guards), the Nuggets (Melo’s trade drama), the Jazz (Okurs injury and williams adjusting to Jefferson clogging the paint), OKC (have no real post presence), and the Spurs (really old). I could see us getting anywhere from the 3-6 seeds but no lower than that.
I do not expect a cake walk to wcf
Nor do I think my favorite team of 24yrs is gonna tank,WE are gonna have 13-14 selfless men playing for one goal,While I appreciate what amare done here just because he went to the knicks dosent mean he took our mojo with him,I think thats what everyone else is saying too.I think a couple folks on this thread want us to pack it it in and say gosh we suck!
Easily the worst post I've ever read on this website
impulsive, emotional garbage.
Knicks have a better chance of making the playoffs than the Suns. Kind of common knowledge at this point.
and where did you get that Knicks depth chart? the starting lineup is:
Felton
Azubuike (if healthy, if not it will be Wilson Chandler or Roger Mason)
Gallinari
Stoudemire
Turiaf
It’s amazing how worked up some of you guys have gotten about Amar’e leaving and joining the Knicks and what-not. You all hate the Knicks now, even though they didn’t do anything wrong. Trust me, the Knicks fans have nothing against the Suns. This is ridiculous.
LOL
Considering you are a new fan to the site then that isn’t saying much. I don’t think anyone here is saying they hate the Knicks. On the contrary. As perennial underdogs, we are all shocked that the Knicks, after only swapping Amare with us, have jumped from awful to playoff contenders as if Amare is the only piece they needed (I realize that you got more than that in the offseason but you also lost more as well). Conversely, the Suns lost a big piece in Amare but got a ton done during the offseason that all the sports writers seem to totally discount.
Now, no one here is hating on the Knicks. We are simply reiterating that the Suns are always considered on the out and consistently surprise everybody. On the other hand, how many teams in recently memory have made one trade and gone from nothing to great in one season? The only team I can think of is the Celtics and it wasn’t one trade, it was two – Garnett and Ray Allen. If you think Randolph, Amare, and Azubuike is the same you are delusional.
Don’t comment garbage.
Reading is good...
I've been posting here since July, 2009
and who said the Knicks were going to be great? lol. They just have a good chance of making the playoffs.
As a rejoinder...
Having read through the post again is strikes me that you seem way more emotional than the post does. Maybe you should re-examine whats eating you before you trash someone else’s work. Or at least try to put out something on your own first.
Reading is good...
Please point me to the "Knicks Suckzor the big 1one" post
so I can understand where this is coming from.
And as for Turiaf starting
Mike prefers it if every player on the floor can score. Turiaf is strictly a defensive guy who also happens to be injury-prone lately. Even if it starts out that way I don’t see it lasting very long.
I definitely must have misread this post if this is what you got from it.
Jeez man.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Also...awesome comment in this thread:
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2010/9/8/1676898/lou-anyone#46281745
Amar’e fan boy?
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 11, 2010 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Wow
From BJabs on that post you linked Scott…
“Suns fan last year. Knicks fan from now on
I can tell you that Louis Amundson is genuine garbage. Obnoxiously terrible defensively, and somehow even worse offensively. How the hell is that even possible? Why is he even in the league?
oh..here’s the answer. To be the token white fan favorite. Same as Scalabrine. Disgusting"
You just lost all credibility there BJabs.
the original post doesn't scream "I hate the Knicks!"
but it just seems so desperate, so defensive. Like this guy is running to the Suns’ side as if they had been shot in battle.
There is a hate for the Knicks going around here and amongst Suns fans in general. The Knicks have become the enemy. Suns fans feel like they have something to prove to the Knicks and Amar’e and D’Antoni.
So these Rufus guys make a post saying that the Knicks have a better chance of making the playoffs than the Suns, and the Suns fans see it as an act of war. It’s just really, really silly.
You guys should be able to listen to what other people have to say and handle their opinions gracefully, not nervously post about how much better the Suns are than the Knicks…that’s not even the question lol. We all know that the Suns are better than the Knicks. It’s just a question of which team has a better chance of making the playoffs. News to you guys…the East is weaker than the West. 40 wins can get you in the playoffs in the East, while the 8 seed had 50 wins in the West last season.
This is why I say the OP is emotional garbage. The OP skims over the actual question – which team has a better chance of making the playoffs – and instead makes himself feel better by pointing out that the Suns have a better roster than the Knicks and proclaiming that the Knicks will be lucky to get 35 wins. I bet it made him feel really good when he wrote that.
Knicks the enemy?
Most of us don’t even consider the Knicks a basketball team, much less the enemy.
by waxmonkey on Sep 11, 2010 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bro.
It’s a blog and it’s the off-season….hard to work up shit to write about. Why are you so angry?
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 12, 2010 12:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Pot meet kettle?
it just seems so desperate, so defensive.
And, then you go on a desperate, defensive rant. It’s pretty clear that the guy with the “waaah! stop picking on my team!” posts here is you.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society."
~Mark Twain
by East Bay Ray on Sep 12, 2010 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Why does the Knicks depth chart go farther than 8 players?
We all know that is as far as Mike’s rotation goes…
The experts at the big media outlets have already dropped the Suns in their power rankings, taken shots at the Suns bench, over valuing Amare Stoudemire, and grading the Suns off season moves anywhere from mediocre to dismal.
These so called “experts” are stupid. Not just because what they say about us, but what they base their predictions off of. For instance here are some things to consider with each team.
Mavs- They act like Chandler will lead them to a Championship. The guy is good, but he’s not the player he was in 08 and can he stay healthy? Also, its the Mavs. They always build hype and then choke. We can’t take the Mavs seriously.
Jazz- For crying out loud, they really think they got better?! Al for Boozer. That can go either way, but what they seem to miss is the loss of Wesley Matthews and Kyle Korver as well as Okur who is still recovering from injury. Ak-47 is turning 30 as well.
Is 34 year old Raja Bell really going to be their PG? The guy didn’t play last season! Lol, the Jazz have more to worry about than us.
Blazers- Oden isn’t the answer. He’s still a rookie. They will make the playoffs because they fight and have good chemistry, but this team has still yet to win a freakin playoff series. Matchup wise it could go either way between us and them. It’s all about who controls the tempo. I’d say were at least even with this team.
Rockets- They are warriors and have great chemistry, but they’re smaller than us. I’m sorry, but you can’t pin all your hope on a guy who’s played like 50 games in the past three seasons. They can make the playoffs and become more competitive, but in no way do they automatically become better than us just because Yao has decided to come out of retirement. Heck, I’d take Lopez over Yao right now.
Clippers- Blake Griffen, Blake Griffen, Blake Griffen, Blake Griffen, Blake Griffen… I’ve heard enough. It’s the Clippers for crying out loud. They’re a disgrace to the NBA Can some one tell me how often these guys make the playoffs? Compare our history with there’s and you will see which team is more likely to make the playoffs.
Grizzlies- Terrible defensive team and a terrible bench. They won 41 games last year, expect it to be less this year due to other bottom feeders getting better. How exactly did they improve this off-season?
Kings- They may be more competitive, but right now we’ve got chemistry and experience over them. Also, more competitive doesn’t equal more wins.
Nuggets- With or without Melo, they lack mental toughness that we have. Match-up wise we own these guys too. They have more to worry about than us.
Thunder- They’re good, I won’t lie. They can become better to, but you can’t expect all of their core players to remain healthy like last season. That just doesn’t happen that often. How will they do with expectations? I think they will do ok actually, Durant is pretty darn good. Yet, they were the 8th seed last year. Do they really get that much better to suddenly be the 2nd seed? Realistically, the 2-8 seeds are open to anyone, the experts just give the Thunder the nod because a lot of people like that team. Before you call them better than the Suns though, let me remind you that we beat these kids on their own court last season ending their 8 game winning streak without Steve Freakin Nash! They should be worried not us.
Hornets- Just trade Chris Paul already. They have a shot at the playoffs, but in no way can they beat us in a 7 game series. They just aren’t talented enough. This team is riding on high hopes. The West is very tough and they will struggle more than we will to make the playoffs.
Spurs- Splitter isn’t the answer. He came two years too late. This team is nearly finished, but they will make the playoffs because they don’t die that easily or quickly. The Spurs>Suns? Two years ago yes, but come one we swept these old hags without a Center of our own. Were finished with them. We’ve wrestled the demon and have won. Now it’s their turn to wrestle the demon and shake that monkey off their backs. I’m talking about Goran Dragic. They have nightmares of that guy and he will haunt them for a long time.
Warriors- Chaos, everything’s chaos with them. From their Coach to their style and health. It ain’t organized chaos though, that’s for sure. They will probably win about 30+ games, but likely won’t make the playoffs. They want be like the 04-07 Suns, but they aren’t even close.
T-Wolves- We all know they suck, nuff said.
Lakers- They are the guaranteed #1 seed in less Kobe’s finger finally falls off. Lol, they’ve done more to improve their team than anyone else out west…that really sucks.
Suns- Our hopes are riding on Turk, Josh, how they fit in and how much Dragic and Lopez can improve. Can Lopez stay healthy? If not, we still don’t have that much to worry about like most of these teams above do. We’ve got cash(5.7 TPE), huge expiring contract in J-Rich, multiple trade pieces off of our very deep and talented bench, so why worry? Our potential problems can actually be fixed with in the same season. Not to mention, how often do the Suns miss the playoffs? When will people realize that Nash doesn’t age and that this guy is truly for real. He will find a way just like he did in 05-06. Also, we have Gentry and this guys has proven to be the perfect Coach for us. Everything we wanted Coach D to do he has done. Chemistry, Depth and Steve Nash put us above these other teams. Yes, I’m sorry, but the Lakers are the only team out West better than this one. Why do people forget that we made the WCF’s without Lopez and Amar’e averaging only 6rpg? That means something. Also, you really can’t mess with Grant Hill. Most of the teams above have more to worry about than us.
2-8 seeds are open to anyone and the Suns actually have a better shot at getting that 2nd seed than anyone else due to what I said above. Will they? Time will tell. It doesn’t matter though as we will most likely be playing the Lakers in the WCF’s again.
Don't trade Dudley!
by Beavis 25 on Sep 11, 2010 9:40 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow, I might as well of wrote a fan post. I hope you enjoyed the bashing I gave these teams though. I’m tired of all the bashing on the Suns and nobody bashing any other team, so I just did what I had to do and remind everyone of all these other team’s problems.
Don't trade Dudley!
yeah, that's a fan post...
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Sep 11, 2010 11:28 PM MDT up reply actions
and a good one too
if you want to stir up some conversation…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Sep 11, 2010 11:29 PM MDT up reply actions
right, so only post it on a SUNS blog
cuz fans from other teams will understand that, just maybe, when you post something on a SUNS blog you are going to write from the perspective of a SUNS fan.
makes perfect sense to me. I can’t imagine anyone ever getting confused by that concept….
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
eww...
walker will not be in the starting lineup. He will not even get that many minutes. We are bringing anthony randolph off the bench…and we will have turiaf in the starting lineup along with buike if he’s healthy…and chandler if he is not….
meanwhile do you really want to start turkoglu at the 4?? i always figured you start either frye or warrick and keep a rotation revolving door between the two and have turkoglu do your ballhandling when nash needs a break…
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 1:36 PM MDT reply actions
also
the knicks will suprise plenty of people this year….i guarantee it….
but the suns are in a good situation as well…(see im objective)…expect jrich and dudley to be moved for a big man since now you have a plethora of wing players with hill…turkoglu..and childress…..
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I got you covered on the Walker situation. But with the frontcourt starters, is this something that has been said or just your expectation (Turiaf starting at C). We all know how willing D’Antoni is to play Amar’e at C, and Turiaf is strictly a defense and energy guy, not exactly Mike’s favorite kind of player. We expect Randolph to start at PF and Amar’e to start at C because that is your most offensively talented frontcourt, which Mike loves. Turiaf has also been very injury-prone the last 2 years. Even if you’re right and Turiaf starts opening night, who will step in if/when Turiaf gets hurt?
Now for the Suns. The coaching staff likes what Frye brings at the C, and that is where he will play again. Warrick will likely get a lot of PT with Nash, but he’s not going to start. Hedo is a better player, taller, and almost the same weight. When the trade went down the reports said the plan was for Hedo to play PF. He will be a huge mismatch offensively, and will hopefully play at least decent defense. Goran Dragic is Steve’s back-up and he’s a young stud on the rise. But Hedo will handle a lot of the dribbling duties from the PF spot. Unless it is for someone like Al Horford, the trade you told us to expect IMO would be at best a lateral move. Dudz is a huge part of our bench, and J-Rich is our best scorer. Losing those 2 would cripple our team and fix our plethora of wing players by creating a plethore of PFs. Any deal for a big would have to include a big to keep the roster balanced.
Turiaf would start but he’d only play 15-20 mins. Imagine Birdman but black and with an awesome beard and you have Turiaf. Randolph would be the sixth man and he would get most of the playing time…but it is widely guessed that the starting 5 will include turiaf. If turiaf goes down mosgov would look good filling in that role (energy, hustle, blocked shots) if he stays out of foul trouble….(did you see russia in the world championship)….but theres no question with randolph out there that is our best unit that play’s most to dantoni’s coaching style
I just feel like if you start hedo at the 4 your defense will be so awful truthfully….do you want him guarding lamarcus aldridge/kevin garnett etc….and it is widely known europeans arent known for thier defensive prowess…At least with warrick at the 4 you have athleticism and the potential for entertaining weak side help defense blocks…and i think with lopez out there i think gentry would put frye out there to spread the court and let nash work his magic
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Mosgov was good in the Worlds. I hope Coach D plays him. In fact, I think they should start him instead of Turiaf, but I would at least wait until he can show he can play in the NBA first. As for Randolf at PF and Amar’e at Center, don’t count that out, it’s very likely it will happen at some point. Just don’t be surprised to see it.
As for Hedo at the 4. Turkey was pretty good at defense in the worlds, so was SA in 04, Sacramento in 01-03, Orlando from 08-09. Hedo played for all those teams and some how he didn’t ruin their defense when he was on the floor. From what I’ve read and observed is that Hedo is a decent defender which is better than a lot of people give him credit for. He’s not a good defender, but he’s not bad enough to ruin defenses. If Hedo can give us C- defense on a consistent basis, I will be happy.
Hedo will start the game at PF, but play the majority of his minutes as a backup PF with the Bench. Warrick will most likely play a lot with Nash because of his “Amar’e lite ness”. Turk and Josh are upgrades over Lou and Barbs. Warrick is like Amar’e only half the man. If Lopez, Dragic and Dud’s improve the Suns should actually be just as good as last year.
Don't trade Dudley!
Hedo will struggle against teams with 2 legitimate post threats.
But he should also be pretty good at P&R defense, which has been a serious weakness for us the last several years. He’s a lot more mobile than most PFs, so he should be able to get out and cover the floor.
When we do run into those dual post playing line-ups we’ll likely see some zone. It worked fairly well against the Lakers, even when they knew it was coming. Our perimeter defense/ball pressure will be pretty good this year with Grant, Duds, Goran, and Chilly, which can only help. The fact that he will play a lot with the bench will also help he won’t always be going up against first-team bigs.
I agree about starting Mozgov once he proves he can play in the NBA.
Warrick will and that’s the problem. The guy is even smaller than Amar’e. This is why I’ve never been satisfied with his signing. I like Turk and Josh for various reasons, however, I felt Warrick was unnecessary. Don’t forget that right now we could have offered Lou about 4 mil to stay for us, but he would never play. If they didn’t jump on Warrick( who makes 4 mil) so early we could have spent about 8 mil on Luis Scola. I would rather have Scola over Warrick and him starting for us instead of Turk, but I do like Turk on our bench. He can cause a lot of matchup problems
Don't trade Dudley!
scola
wasnt going anywhere…the rockets would have made sure of it
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
exactly
dual postups would be a nightmare defensively…and the zone can only do so much…if it becomes a staple of your defense teams will figure out how to break it
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Don’t forget that we made the WCF’s with Collins as our Starting C and Amar’e averaging only 6rpg.
We also made the WCF’s in 06 with Diaw and Tim Thomas as our Frontcourt.
Don't trade Dudley!
hold on
i love the suns….and steve nash is one of my fav players and no one was rooting for the suns more than me…but honestly you beat the trailblazers without a FULLY HEALTHY brandon roy and no prysbilla and oden….and beat and worn down geriatric squad wearing spurs uni’s…..the suns werent really battle tested
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
and beat and worn down geriatric squad wearing spurs uni’s
The same Spurs team that knocked off the #2 seeded Mavs in six.
And despite Roy not being “FULLY HEALTHY” both teams were missing their centers and Portland (and SA) was still picked to upset the Suns – so they weren’t that bad off if most people still thought they were going to win.
SA was old, but still good and pretty good in the playoffs. We were just a nightmare matchup for them. Portland was without Roy, but even than they were a matchup nightmare for us. I agree, we were battle tested. You can’t beat the Spurs and not be battle tested. The Blazers might have actually beat us with a healthy Roy, but as we saw it all depended on who controlled the pace from the get go. It took us a while to realize that in the series.
Don't trade Dudley!
SA is still good…but in the series you ran through them…there was only one point in the series where i felt they would win a game….that was very ‘un-Spurs’ like
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:48 PM MDT up reply actions
They tested us. I believe all the games were close. The Spurs did lead by 18 in one, but we came back.
If the Spurs or Blazers weren’t a test than the Thunder or Mavs or Nuggets and Jazz wouldn’t have been a test either.
Don't trade Dudley!
i think the thunder and the jazz could have beat the suns….shit the thunder would have beat the lakers if it went to 7 games…and the jazz have deron williams who would have abused steve nash and that offense sloan has been running for 200 years
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Lol, no. You saw what LA did to Utah. That team was without Okur and AK. We would have slaughtered them just like we did the last two game vrs them in the regular season. They had no one that could guard Amar’e unlike SA and Port. Sorry, but we would have likely swept or taken the Jazz out in 5.
As for the Thunder. Experience, homecourt and depth would have won it for us in probably 6-7 games. Don’t forget that we ended that team’s 8 game winning streak on their own homecourt without Steve Nash late in the season.
Don't trade Dudley!
only
one way to settle this…..
NBA 2K10 playoff mode lmao
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions
You say that Deron would abuse them, but Amar’e would abuse them too. Our home-court and depth would ultimately be the deciding factor. Actually, it wouldn’t. The Jazz could barley compete with us when we were focused.
Don't trade Dudley!
but
the jazz are a good team…they just did not have the size oncesoever to compete with LA….they would take the suns to at least 6
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Wrong. The Suns showed that the Jazz are no match for them right at the end of the season by beating Utah in Utah by 22 points in a game that the Jazz desperately wanted to win – one night after beating Denver at home by the same amount.
The Thunder have never given any evidence that they are a better team than the Suns. The series was split 2-1 with two of the three games in OKC and the Suns finished with a better record and seeding.
We went 1-1 with them after the all-star break. Both were road games. We won one without Steven and lost the other in a close game without Lopez.
The game before the all-star break was in December. We lost that one on our homecourt by like 3 or 5 points. Can’t take any game into context before the all-star break as the Suns wen’t 12-18 and were giving up big leads on a consistent basis. They weren’t the true Suns.
Don't trade Dudley!
look at the tape from the playoffs…
durant struggled and they still took it to LA
Durant…westbrook…green…harden…sefalosha..ibaka are all young mobile players that love to run and they work real hard defensively….it would give the suns some huge trouble
I truely think however that if every team is healthy you have LA at # 1 then no clear cut 2-8
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
J-Rich struggled and we still took it to LA.
Our players also love to run and work real hard defensively – and have veteran leadership.
I’m not suggesting the Suns would have swept the Thunder, but there is no reason to believe that we would have lost to either them or the Jazz.
especially the Jazz. That shouldn’t even be a debate.
In fact, right now I feel like they have more to worry about than us. 34 year old Raja who didn’t play last season as your starting SG? No Korver or Mathews? Okur recovering form injury? AK-47 turning 30? Boozer/AL swap?
Don't trade Dudley!
AL
will be a solid player….no he doesnt have boozer’s midrange game…but he’s still a beast in the paint
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions
and
minny was basically giving him away…the jazz had to take it
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I would have done the same, yet I see them on the outside looking in. I think they end up as the 9th or 10th seed.
They should have kept Matthews.
Don't trade Dudley!
not when u pay matthews 9.2 mill his first year
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions
i actually see denver as that team on the outside looking in….too much drama….unless melo says he will stay in denver
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
houston yes….
new orleans may squeak in there….lets see what they do with peja’s expiring…and that depth issue that have
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually, Amar’e struggled except for one game. In fact, Amar’e struggled the entire playoffs. Those were poor numbers for the guy.
Don't trade Dudley!
i watched most of the suns games….and it felt like he was blending in to the offense….not so much that he was struggling
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
He was struggling. Many teams double and triple teamed him. In the playoffs Amar’e only dominated against teams that couldn’t guard him or would choose not to guard him. We needed him to really step up, but he’s just not that player. Not saying he didn’t try, but he’s just not that good meaning that he can be stopped unlike Duncan, Kobe…
Don't trade Dudley!
i agree….but i feel like if he had to take over he could….you have your canadian security blanket….
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions
well
for my sanity as a knick fan lets hope he sheds that and chews everyone up on the court….
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions
How many teams out East can guard him though?
Orlando and Boston is all that comes to mind. Amar’e will own Bosh.
Don't trade Dudley!
i always preferred amar’e over bosh…but they have great help defenders (miami)..but the east im not so worried about….its the west that im more concerned…..
and i figured you’d know this better than me….but was the organization really worried about his eye and knee??
like is there a serious chance he will turn into mcdyess?
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
There is a chance, but not as high as most would think. I believe that Sarver was more concerned about him turning 30 and having a huge drop off in athleticism.
Don't trade Dudley!
yea
i know were gonna hate the back end of that contract…but hopefully we will have paul and melo to alleviate some of that dropoff :-D
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I hope Amar’e can give at least 2-3 good years for you guys. That’s all we expected him to give us if he did say. This is why Sarver wanted insurance on those other two years.
Don't trade Dudley!
i hope he can rele take care of his body and give us 4 years….then maybe he gets a better shot to accomodate for the loss of athleticism
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:43 PM MDT up reply actions
i know that
but we need 17-20 ft range
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Beg to Differ
Amare cannot be shut down without a Double-Team. And he was actually passing the rock at times.
I am happy to say he was making smart decisions on the court that led to open players or Easy Buckets.
He is not a natural passer, but he did try.
He may not have filied the Stat SHEET, but he was good in most games until the Lakers No-Show and where Lamar Freakin Odom Out-rebounded him.
you cant compare j-richs importance to his team VS. durant’s importance to his team
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
They were both important to their teams during the playoffs. I haven’t compared them further than that.
but the magnitude of j rich struggling would be less than durant since he does more for his team….so when durant struggles and they take it to LA it means more than if J Rich struggles and they take it to LA since you have more offensive options
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions
J-Rich was considered our barometer for success. If he scored 20 or more points, we generally won. If he didn’t, generally we lost. That’s a reasonable magnitude.
because
if he scored 20 or more points it was usually a sign that the floor was spread out…you were moving the ball…you were running and the lane was clear for amare…thats why you did so well when that happened
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s an over simplification but more importantly does not effect the argument.
In 7 of the Suns’ 10 playoff wins J-Rich scored 19 or more points. In only 1 of the Suns’ 6 losses was it the same. This pattern was also true through most of the regular season. J-Rich doing well was important to our success, similar to Durant doing well was important to OKC’s success.
Both players struggled against the Lakers, and both teams struggled against the Lakers.
Although, Durant is obviously greater than J-Rich; I feel like Richardson was a superstar out there for us in those playoffs. He certainty played like it.
Don't trade Dudley!
but your offense doesnt run through j rich like OKC’s offense does through durant
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:54 PM MDT up reply actions
i know
but im saying that if you put any good three point shooter with relative athleticism it would be the same storyy
you cant replace durant
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 14, 2010 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions
but im saying that if you put any good three point shooter with relative athleticism it would be the same storyy
Don’t think that’s true. Wasn’t with Bell.
you cant replace durant
So true.
bell
doesnt have athleticism like jrich does
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 14, 2010 12:06 AM MDT up reply actions
nico batum would be a fine example of the point im trying to make…..switch him with j rich….and if scores over 20 a game you will probably win alot because he can shoot and hes athletic so u can throw him oops and catch him backdoor
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 14, 2010 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions
It is true that
if J-Rich scored 20+ we won. It was considered a Lock.
But how many 20 Poit regular season games did J-Rich actually have ??
10, Maybe 15 ??
How many Reg Season games did the Suns Win ?
We are a team where we have many offensive options.
But how many 20 Poit regular season games did J-Rich actually have ??
10, Maybe 15 ??
30.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_richardson/game_by_game_stats.html
Matchups, that’s all it is. Matchup wise vrs us we would have beaten them in about 6-7 because of experience, homecourt, depth…
Also, you forget that it was the first round. The Lakers weren’t mentally prepared to play the way they did vrs us against the Thunder. They expected it to be an easy win. The Thunder just surprised them. If the Lakers had played the way they did against us vrs the Thunder in the 2nd round they would have won in 5 games.
Don't trade Dudley!
Mavs choke…..please refer to 2006 NBA Finals and every playoff after that…
Blazers- Oden cannot be counted as a player yet….he has to play some fucking games…and i think that people thought roy was going to be healthy and good to go…but wen your offense runs through andre miller as your only consistent option your doomed for failure.
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Funny, even with all that the commentators didn’t think they were doomed for failure – they thought the Suns were. So I say again, they couldn’t have been that bad off if they were picked to win.
Same with San Antonio. Additionally, though you want to claim the Mavs “choked” and that was the only reason the Spurs beat them – the reason we have a best of seven series in basketball is because over seven games the better team generally wins. You don’t choke four out of six times. You just lose.
The Mavs were picked to be the most likely to take down the Lakers for a reason. The Spurs beat them because they are a quality team, not because of luck. The Suns beat the Spurs because we were better.
Your claim that the Suns playoff success was handed to them is simply not true.
actually i believe most had the suns beating the blazers in 6 or 7….
secondly…while i agree you ‘upset’ the spurs…the suns were the better and younger team…However the Mav’s do choke….you mean to tell me that in 2007 when Dirk won the MVP that the warriors had the better team..?? no the mavs choked because they had no answer for the wierd matchup that GW presented
Lastly…i am not saying that it was strictly handed to them…They did get to the WCF i tip my hat off to them…with collins as your starter and amare grabbing 6 rpg..but what are the chances that happens again…remember nash…hill and even richardson are a year older…
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions
With J-Rich I worry, but Nash doesn’t age. The guy is in his prime. This is his prime. We don’t need to worry until he approaches 40.
Don't trade Dudley!
it just goes against human nature….what nash does is amazing but how long can he continue to weave through defenders and deliver houdini passes with precision consistently while helping his team win
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Nash at 36 is equivalent to Carmelo at 26. People are going to worry about melo when he turns 30. We don’t have to worry about Nash until he turns 40.
Don't trade Dudley!
hopefully….the NBA wont be the same without him…i hope he plays until he’s 55
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
basically
you didnt really face a dominant post threat until gasol
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Marcus Camby is still one of the best Center’s out there. Right now he is better than both Pryz and Oden. He was bigger than any of our guys in that series. Tim Duncan is still a double double machine. Both dominated the post against us. Gasol was a threat the first two games and that was it. As soon as we went zone, it’s like he wasn’t even there. Frye later on in the series did a nice job defensively on him too. The reason we lost to the Lakers is because Robin was unhealthy and we didn’t have anyone to stop Kobe. Hopefully, Chilly can help us out there.
Don't trade Dudley!
marcus camby is not a offensive oriented player…whens the last time you saw him make a post move??
Duncan really showed his age in that series….as did the rest of the spurs
I agree your zone did make gasol struggle some…but it was emphasized by the fact that Kobe took over that series and didnt look for gasol so much
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
We really needed someone who could make Kobe work like what we use to have in Bell.
The NBA really doesn’t have that many dominant bigs anymore. Gasol is like one of the few and he didn’t bother us that much.
We’ll do fine. If we need to make a trade than so be it. Lets see what this team can do before we make any moves.
Don't trade Dudley!
And Matrix
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
and about dudley and your bench….sometimes you have to give a little to get a little….maybe nene and smith for dudley and jrich…then play turkoglu at the 3 or 2…and even then you wouldnt have that many big men….earl clark still looks about 2 years from being productive…in the summer league he just looked too rushed and he needs to develop a jumpshot
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions
sometimes you have to give a little to get a little….maybe nene and smith for dudley and jrich
In this case it would be giving a lot for a little. JR Smith is a huge, no, no. It wouldn’t be worth trading J-Rich or even Dudley a lone for Nene. He’s good, but not that good, not what we need. We need a true PF not a Center. Horford or Josh Smith are the guys we have been eying because of the fact that the Hawks spent so much cash on JJ they probably won’t have enough to keep both by the end of the season. I would prefer Horford over Smith, but either one would fit just fine right next to Lopez. There just aren’t many good Big-men out there that are worth trading away two very vital pieces for. I’d rather just wait until next off-season when we have a shot at signing either Josh or Horford without giving anyone up.
Don't trade Dudley!
marc gasol
is also on the table in 2011 as well….
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions
That would create problems.
Marc is bigger than his brother and is a true C. Gasol and Lopez wouldn’t work out well together IMO, and neither of those guys are bench players.
Yea, but we already have Lopez. The guy averaged 11 and 7 while starting for us right next to Amar’e. He’s pretty young and likely to get a lot better.
Don't trade Dudley!
your in the western conference….the entire conference is getting bigger to dethrone the lakers…having two 7 footers wouldnt be all that bad..
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
actually
nene is a pf…but because of the depth chart he plays at center…denver has been trying for years to get a center to move him to pf
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions
However, he’s not good enough to trade two very vital pieces from our team in Dudley and J-Rich. His contract kind of makes it difficult too. J-Rich for Nene straight up would sound more reasonable and would work, however, I consider J-Rich too important to move right now. Like I said, Horford and Josh Smith are the kind of players we are looking for.
Don't trade Dudley!
j rich
is important and a damn fine player….but he will not be winning you a championship any time soon…you guys should be in “all in” mode while can still do his thing…his run will be ending shortly unfortunately…getting a big man with offensive capabilities would allow your offense to become more balanced..and allow room for childress…turk…and whoever to do thier thing..
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
i honestly think
if you traded lets say j rich…player x…and maybe a second round pick or so to bring in nene and jr smith that would make u such a better team…you have a beefy enforcer in the middle in nene who is very crafty offensively…and jr smith can get hot..and i think he would benefit mentally in the suns lockerroom (and the fact that its a contract year for him)….that would leave you with alot of ball handlers and shooters…probably the best shooting in the league…you have a legitimate chance to come out of the west…you had a legitimate chance last year…
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
For JR Smith, no. Nene is someone to consider if it’s a must, but right now, no.
We’re in a pretty good position where we can just wait it out, give the current team a shot and see how they do up until mid-season. If it becomes apparent that we need to make a trade we can make a trade. We’ve got plenty of pieces and I bet we could do it without losing J-Rich. We also have a 5.7 TPE to use.
Don't trade Dudley!
think about it
in today’s nba climate who do you think would be the best answer for you guys…
ATL will probably keep horford and smith…thier going all in for 3-5 years of relative success
Maybe you can get a troy murphy from nj..who would only be a better option than nene because of his shooting ability
denver is going into rebuilding mode one way or another….and nene is the best choice i think
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
The chances of Atlanta keeping both are unlikely. If we can get in there and force them to overpay either Josh or Horford that means they have to let one of them go. Both are going to want a lot of money.
Don't trade Dudley!
but
i think the hawks will venture in to luxury tax territory to keep both….they are just too valuable…especially with drew trying to institute a motion offense instead of the JJ isolation offense
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
because
at the end of the day….its a business…the hawks would profit more business wise to keep both and keep the team good and exciting to watch…even if they are paying them alot of money
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions
We’ll see. If that is the case we might just go after Marc Gasol.
Also, if Lopez gets hurt we might just consider trading for Marc.
I’ll actually look in to that because the chances of Lopez getting hurt are disappointingly high.
Don't trade Dudley!
the grizz would probably want dragic…they have been searching for a pg for years b/c conley is inconsistent…is dragic worth Gasol to you guys
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions
If it took Dragic, than we’d say no and wait till the offseason. The Grizz aren’t in a position to demand(in less Marc is restricted). They could lose him for nothing or we trade Clark for him. Remember this is only if Lopez does get hurt and is out for weeks instead of a few games.
Don't trade Dudley!
On another note, I find Marc Gasol an interesting prospect. I think we can really steal this guy. Maybe offer Lawal, Clark and the TPE and we get it done. The funny thing is, this could end up being a repeat of the first “Gasol move”. How funny would that be? The Suns pull off the “2nd Gasol move” with the same team that made the first Gasol move.
Don't trade Dudley!
The question is how would we get him / why would the Grizz give him up?
I’m not saying there’s no reason, I just don’t know what it is. Would the Grizz consider trading him for Lawal and Clark? It sounds unlikely to me.
He’s on his last year. Why haven’t they offered him a contract already? I don’t think they expect him to stay. The Grizz management is stupid. This is the same team that made the first Gasol move and they lucked out in Marc and yet they still haven’t offered him a new contract? They also made AI come off the bench when they brought him into attract tickets. That doesn’t make any sense. This team doesn’t know what they’re doing.
Don't trade Dudley!
probably
a stipulation in the contract since he wasn’t on the rookie contract when he came…but lets be serious here…they play in memphis….and they will have to lock up oj mayo and randolph soon…they dont have huge amounts of money to throw around…thats probably another reason
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions
That is why I feel like we can make a steal. I’m surprised nobody thought of this earlier. Lawal and Clark are both young talented players filled with a ton of potential. That should be enough to get Marc. That or he walks for nothing. In less other teams could offer better, but lets be real, the Bulls offered them more and they still traded Paul to the Lakers for proven crappy players and one unproven player in March.
Don't trade Dudley!
Gasol is under contract this coming season and a RFA the following season. Extending him this off season is probably premature.
if
its restricted and the grizz want to spend money he’s off the market…..but thats a big IF
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions
and
assuming he doesn’t actively want to leave – as he could make himself an UFA in the summer of 2012.
yes the Qualifying i forgot about that
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Really, ESPN says he’s got 1 year total instead of 1-2? He will be a free agent next year, not his choice in less he agrees to an offer now. However, if he is restricted that changes things.
Don't trade Dudley!
Yes, he’s on contract this year and then (assuming the Grizz submit a qualifying offer before June 30th 2011) he will be a restricted free agent for 2011/2012 season.
The question is, do they want to offer him a contract? Will they really wait till June to get something done? There is the chance that he says, “no” and walks. Maybe they just want to see what teams will offer at the all-star break.
Don't trade Dudley!
Well he can’t really walk if he takes the basic QO until the following year, and the actual risk of him doing so is very low, unless he hates Memphis or something.
Most teams do wait until that year to talk extension. For example, Jared Dudley, Al Horford, both in the same boat as Gasol, contractually speaking.
The Grizzlies arent stupid…they were in serious salary dump mode back then…and they did manage gasol….now ive seen clark play….(but not in an actual NBA game) he looks like an undersized pf with limited potential….lawal is good but ‘fool me once shame on you, fool me twice….well uhhh lets just say you cant fool me twice’-GW Bush
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:50 PM MDT up reply actions
basically
i doubt they will get raped again like that
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:51 PM MDT up reply actions
they
would probably rather that happen….they have a good team too if they could ever find that point guard….last year them and the thunder were my sleepers to make the playoffs…and the Grizz turned some heads…they might just want to see where the season takes them first
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions
We could offer them a TPE and a draft pick though to go along with Lawal or Clark or both. A TPE changes things as they could use that to get a PG.
Don't trade Dudley!
Not how TPE’s work sir.
I’ve been thinking about making a fan post explaining these things in more detail, but suffice it to say we don’t trade TPE in that (or any) manner.
But we could offer the players and draft picks.
That’s what I guessed. I was just waiting for some one to say it.
We could offer some of the TPE to match his contract, but only alone is what I assume, right?
Don't trade Dudley!
yea
TPE’s basically absorb the salary of an incoming player….like a player in salary only…
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 14, 2010 12:02 AM MDT up reply actions
marc gasol
is pau gasol but defensively….thats his strength but he can contribute in other areas as well
by hopelessknickfan on Sep 13, 2010 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Knicks Depth Chart
I freaked out when you guys posted Bill Walker as our starting shooting guard, but then again this is coming out of Phoenix, smh! The changes below are a response to K>A> not being healthy and will not start the season, but I wouldn’t expect any of you to read NY newspapers…
PG: Ray Felt, TD
SG: Wil Chan, RMJ
SF: Danny Boy, L. Fields
PF: STAT, Ant Ran
C: Ron T, Tim Moz
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