Phoenix Suns Offseason: A Mind Dump of Questions
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 3, 2010 10:52 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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I've been on the Jersey shore the past few days waiting for a hurricane, quietly pondering a number of thoughts about the 2010-11 season, and much, much more. Obviously we have to wait and see how things play out, so a lot of these questions will continue to go unanswered for a few more months or longer. But I have to dump somewhere, so why not here?
- How will the new front office reconfiguration affect the squad on the floor? Or How will Blanks, Sarver, and Babby get along? How will the power structure play out? Is Blanks a puppet GM for the time being until he earns his stripes so to speak? Blanks must understand what his role will be, it wouldn't have been fair for Sarver to hire him without letting him now how things would work. Still, one has to wonder how much leash he'll get to make his own decisions. Regardless, there seem to be a lot cooks in the kitchen at the moment.
- At what point does Gentry get a new contract and more money? How is it he didn't earn that last season? Gentry is a good soldier. He says the right things and more importantly I believe he is thinking the right things: Put in the work, support the powers that be, win games, and you'll get what you deserve. It's a sincere, winning attitude. But at some point do you start wondering what it's going to take to get rewarded? Maybe Sarver and Gentry have an understanding that we aren't privvy to.
- Will Dudley eventually be the odd man out? I love Dudz. I love what he brings to the team and I love his personality. He has a year left on his current deal so discussing this may not be relevant yet. But I wonder what the FO has in store for Jared. Dudz may never be a starting 3 in the NBA. We saw a trend last season that seemed to suggest Dudley became less effective the longer he was on the floor. Was it conditioning? Was it the fact that he has never played big minutes in his career? Or is Dudz simply a career 6th man?
Jared's future may be tied to a number of other factors. In the Kerr regime, Earl Clark was the heir apparent to Grant Hill. But Clark's lack of progress, J-Chill and Hedo's arrival, coupled with Amare's departure add question marks to the equation. If Clark is a bust or moves to the 4, then Dudley becomes much more important to the Suns. In that case you want to invest in the guy, lock him up and pay him. But consider a front line of Lopez/Hedo/Dudley. Does Lopez's size make up for the lack of Dudley athleticism and Hedo size? Could J-Chill be a better option at the 3 than Dudley? Maybe, but if J-Rich is gone without a legit replacement at the 2, Chill is the man there. I guess I've answered my question here. Dudz is a nice player, a great locker room guy, but he may not be a long term answer in the same vein that LB wasn't. Again we have to wait and see how things play out. I hate that. - Is 2010-11 the End of the Line For J-Rich? It depends on how bad he wants to be a Sun right? For the right price J-Rich should stay. But there's been little talk of an extension and up until the 2010 post season it was a forgone conclusion that JRich had been a mild disappointment and the Suns would either deal him for whatever they could get or let him walk after 2011. Now, it's a different story. There is really no replacement after Childress (Janning?) and there's no given that Childress is going to bring the same production that J-Rich will, especially sunce he's been playing in the Greek league for two years. If the Suns are in the midst of the playoff hunt around trade deadline time, they can't afford to get rid of J-Rich, unless the return is too good to refuse. J-Rich is the prototypical 2 in that he is a threat from down town, has the big body to defend, rebound, and post up. LB proved to us how valuable a big 2 is in the NBA and how unvaluable an undersized one is. In addition, Rich is a great locker room guy which adds into the equation.
- How Will Steve Nash Adjust His New Role? The plan is to utilize the versatility of Hedo and turn Nash into more of a scorer. It sounds great in theory but how will a guy who made his career making others look good adapt to taking on more of a selfish attitude? It may be no big deal at all. Just shoot the ball. I suppose the real question is whether we will still see a 50/40 season from Nash with increased FG attempts. I think it's worth the experiment.
and lastly - When Will One of the Mainstream Media Experts Give the Phoenix Suns a Little Credit? I don't mean to whine, and coming in under the radar worked last season. But let's face it, year in year out the Suns aren't tough enough, they don't play D, they're too old, the bench is weak, etc all. There is every reason in the world to leave them out of the playoff hunt and criticize them. But this franchise has missed the playoffs only a handful of times in the past 20 years. Perhaps someone in this organization knows a little something about the game.
This year it's the loss of Amare Stoudemire. Losing 20 and 9 is difficult, but the so-called experts were saying STAT wasn't max worthy. Now they're saying that he's irreplaceable to the Suns and the reason why they won be able to reach last year's success.
Hedo and Hakim are not Amare and maybe even combined won't hit 20 and 9. But why does that production have to come from the 4? There will be more ball to spread around, and perhaps Nash, Goran, and J-Chill (or insert name) increase their scoring totals. I could go on about the East Coast media bias thing or playing in the same division as the Lakers, but it's really not the point. The proof is in the pudding, and the Suns answer the bell every season, year in, year out. Why should this season be any different?
Got something to dump, let's hear it:
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Great batch of questions, Wil.
On the FO and Gentry, not much I can say. I think Blanks, Babby, and the new whiz bang dept will take some time, but by next off-season they will be the subject of much discussion. Gentry will get extended in his last year. Sarver ain’t cheap, but he’s hardly generous, either.
I sincerely hope that we do all we can to keep Dudley. I think he’s a phenomenon, way more valuable than stats can indicate. Besides, he was the best 3 point shooter in the league last year, and he was largely responsible for the change in culture in Phx last year. I’m sure he’ll cost more than he should, but he’s worth it – even if he does stay as a sixth man.
JRich – tough one. Given the moves we’ve made lately, (and depending on how they work out) JRich could be the key to a lot of things – S&T, long term signing, mid season trade – I just don’t know. I’ll put my faith in our brain trust on that one, although I like him, and I hope he stays.
Nash will be fine.
Media will NEVER give the Suns any credit. Until they win 4 in a row. Even if we won next year, it would be a fluke – Miami is SO much sexier, and LA has Hollywood. Never, never, never, never. Wait until we lose Nash – they will have us rebuilding for the next two decades.
Last, Clark is going to be a stud.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I really hope clark will be the stud we want him to be
but i’m following most of the suns on twitter and Clark’s twitter feed in comparison to guys like chilldress’, Warricks’ and dudley’s doesn’t seem to show that he’s working on his game as much as some of the other young suns. Now it could be that he just doesn’t tweet about his workout sessions, or that guys like dudley vastly overexaggerate how much offseason work they put in, but its not exactly the best news you want to hear from Clark.
Twitter - please.
Twitter has been responsible for some of the worst discussions on this site. Do you think there might be differences in how a 21 year old and a 27 year old use twitter? When they start playing games on twitter, then maybe I’ll pay attention.
Or Not.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
In this instance, twitter is the only insight we have into what our suns have been doing in the offseason
it’s all we’ve got, and it does give an insight into these players workout habits. Like i said in my last comment it’s not definitive, but wouldn’t you agree that the fact guys like warrick/dudley/chilldress are always tweeting about working out and ‘getting better’ and improving, while in comparison Clark hasn’t made a basketball related tweet since the season ended (i don’t think) gives at least some indication as to the motor and drive of our players and Clark in particular.
I'll take the zombie
They’re usually quite a bit more fierce and frightening than Earl.
by suns68 on Sep 3, 2010 7:57 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
true
but you never know…i’ve seen some of clark’s tweets and well, i just don’t know what he’s saying…he certainly doesn’t have an English degree in his back pocket…in person he has a good personality but he’s no dudley.
i do think it could only help him to be tweeting about his work habits (assuming he has some), but basing your judgement on him based on twitter is over board.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 3, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I got accepted all of a sudden. Or maybe he unblocked it.
His tweets are definitely not for the general public. I feel like I’m always reading a third of a conversations he’s having with friends.
i still havent gotten approved. i read some tweets others posted.
he must not realize who i am. im kind of a big deal.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 3, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
I think i didn't explain myself properly
i didn’t mean that i think Clark will definitely be a bust because he doesn’t talk about working out, i remember reading somewhere on here that he’d been working in PHX for a while, i just feel that it is an indicator of his motor. I’m actually still optimistic that Clark will pan out as a serviceable starter at the very least.
I sincerely hope Clark improves.
Even if he only shows enough promise that we can get something of value in return for him. I just don’t see the heart and desire from him that you need to succeed in the NBA.
Wow, I don’t know what I would do if we beat LA and Miami to win the Championship, but how could call that a fluke? If we did that I don’t think people would call it a fluke, they’d just call it a one year thing, “the Suns will never win again”.
Please, don’t trade Dudley, it isn’t worth it.
If the Suns are in the midst of the playoff hunt around trade deadline time, they can’t afford to get rid of J-Rich, unless the return is too good to refuse. J-Rich is the prototypical 2 in that he is a threat from down town, has the big body to defend, rebound, and post up.
I like this. Everybody look at it. I don’t want to see any ’trade J-Rich" ideals until the FO actually considers it.
The plan is to utilize the versatility of Hedo and turn Nash into more of a scorer. It sounds great in theory but how will a guy who made his career making others look good adapt to taking on more of a selfish attitude? It may be no big deal at all. Just shoot the ball. I suppose the real question is whether we will still see a 50/40 season from Nash with increased FG attempts. I think it’s worth the experiment.
Most people already know where I stand as of yesterday and I agree. I want Nash to shoot more. I hope it works out. Maybe this whole time, we haven’t been taking advantage of something that could put us over the top? Just think about it. Maybe, Nash will not only take a team without Amar’e into the playoffs while winning over 50, but he will do so by showing the world how good of a scorer he really is thus giving him so more MVP votes. MV3 can become a realism.
Don't trade Dudley!
For us to miss the playoffs,
Some other team in the Pacific Division (other than the Lackers), would have to step up and have a better record. That’s the Kings, the Warriors, and the Clippers, folks.
So unless the Kings make some sort of HUGE leap forward this year, we’re goin to the playoffs.
keep in mind 50 wins
didn’t give anyone an automatic birth last season like it usually did.
i expect the clips to be a little better, maybe 35-40 wins, the kings will still suck and the warriors (ha ha haha ha ha) whatever.
still its top 8 regardless of division….
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 3, 2010 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
significantly more competitive and significantly more wins
are 2 different things. They will fade by end of year as teams gear up toward playoffs.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
The Kings could possibly make that HUGE leap forward considering they have a vastly improved frontline, tyreke evans has developed a Jumpshot, Omri Casspi has buffed up,
Donte Greene is finally starting to tap into his potential, and Thompson is only going to get better. THere is no doubt in my mind that if the team gells well together they can certainly make the playoffs, al la the thunder.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 3, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
No Koolaid here, I'm a suns fan, but the team certainly has the proper amount of talent
to make the playoffs.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
I think they'll be competitive, but they're at best on equal terms with MEM, LAC, and NOH.
Those 3 are the good teams most likely to miss the playoffs. They could make it in the EC,, but not the WC.
Yes, but none of those teams has the roy who averaged 20-5-5
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 4, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
But they have better overall teams.
MEM: Conley, Mayo, Gay, Randolph, Gasol
LAC: Davis, Gordon, Butler, Griffin, Kaman
NOH: Paul, Thornton, Ariza, West, Okafor
SAC: Udrih, Evans, Casspi, Landry, Dalembert
MEM has a better front-line than SAC, although SAC has a better backcourt. I suppose they are debatable.
LAC has an All-Star C, a solid young SG, a very talented PG (when motivated), and ROY candidate at PF. I give them the edge (disregarding Clipper curse).
NOH has Paul. 20-11-4 trumps 20-5-5. Landry-West cancel each other out, as do Okafor and Dalembert. Thornton is better than Udrih, and Casspi and Ariza are even. If the Hornets trade Paul or they just underprform, SAC could surpass them.
Cousins is a wildcard , but unless he’s a 20-10 guy as a rookie I don’t think it will matter too much. The Kings could have a better season than those teams. But I don’t think they’ll have a better season than the Lakers, Blazers, Mavs, Jazz, Suns, Thunder, Rockets and Spurs. That’s 8 right there. That’s assuming DEN does collapse and Melo is traded.
I just don’t see them making the playoffs. There are too many good teams. In a year or 2, sure. A lot of older stars will be done and their youngsters will be heading into their primes. But at the moment, I don’t see it.
Obviously, you dont have the knowledge that I do on the Kings if you say they have a worse frontcourt than Memphis; Sacramento's frontcort has become one of the best in the league, especially if Hassan Whiteside l can contribute on an NBA level.
I’m not saying that they’ll make the playoffs this season, but I do see it as a possibility. (Kaman shouldn’t have been an all-star last season, Boozer played much better.) IMHO, Cousins may be a wildcard, but seeing him play up close and having the kind of personality that he has makes me believe otherwise. Clippers do have a good batch of young talent, but they are cursed for as long as that cheap bastard heads their fo.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 4, 2010 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
Cousins will be ROY
you heard it here first folks
Yes he will!
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 4, 2010 5:19 PM MST up reply actions
Kaman deserved to be an allstar
his stats were really close to amare and gasol
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Butler won't start SF for LAC, Aminu will.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
and DeMarcus Cousins will probably start over Dalem
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Houston is likely to take someone's spot in the playoffs.
And it’s looking more and more like Denver will be the team to vacate the top 8, with or without Melo.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
With Kenyon Martin bound to miss 40 or so games this year, the nuggets will for sure not make the playoffs, as kenyon is their defensive and rebounding unit.
It is sad to see the team break up like this, but then again it is life.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 3, 2010 4:58 PM MST up reply actions
I dont understand why espn has projected the Thunder to get second place when they havent made any significant moves.
I predict that either the rockets, Blazers, or Mavwrecks vy for the number two position.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 3, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
The Warriors
will be good if Dwright can do something well.
My list of playoff teams (in no order)
Lakers
Mavs
Rockets
Nuggets
Spurs
Thunder
Nuggets
San Antonio
Portland
New Orleans
Utah
Phoenix
that’s 12 teams, with Memphis, Clippers, Warriors, as dark horse teams.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Ah sorry, lol ten teams then :P
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
On Jared Dudley
I know how popular Dudz is, for all the reasons you cite, and I’m not saying we should be looking to trade him. I love him too. But, to answer your question, yes, Dudz is strictly a 6th man. He’s not athletic enough to expand his offensive game beyond being solely a 3-point shooter. And he’s an excellent one, but he’s not going to hit 47% of them every year. He plays D, he gets boards, he hustles, he scraps: all the things you want from a bench player. But, he is also, ultimately, replaceable. Would love to keep him, but only at the right price. And, if packaging him in a deal to get us a star is necessary, we shouldn’t shy away from doing so.
by East Bay Ray on Sep 3, 2010 12:31 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I agree about him being a 6th man. In fact I’d say he’s a true bench player. However, he is not replaceable. The last player I saw like him was Nocioni and than he got hit with injuries. Horry is another example, but I don’t like Horry, he’s a jerk, Dudley isn’t, so that’s a plus. Look at the rest of the league and you will see that there are just a few hand full of players like Dudley. I guarantee you that as soon as we lose him our bench weakens big time. He was part of our huge turn around last year. If were going to win a Championship the “team” way than he must be on it. He’s a leader for that bench squad. He’s about as vital to this team and our future as Dragic is.
Of course this is coming from me; a guy who’s signature, says, well just look at it.
Don't trade Dudley!
I love me some Dudley, but of course he's expendable
Depending on the offer. I’m sure in 1991 people would have called Jeff Hornacek irreplaceable. If a Barkley or Gasol-like deal is possible and Dudley needs to be involved to make it work, I sure hope that the trigger will be pulled.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
That's.... not the point.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
we gave up one of those guys to get dudley (raja bell)
and loads of fans hated that trade at first but i don’t think anyone would want that trade undone now. If the front office are as smart as they’re paid to be then i’m sure the fanbase will accept any dudley trade.
You think Hornacek didn't have intagibles?
Bleh to intangibles. Dudley is replaceable you guys just like him A LOT.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 4, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, he is irreplaceable.
At least until… a replacement comes along.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
by RMason on Sep 4, 2010 3:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
If memory serves ...
Barkley got beat by the Jordan Bulls once in the finals. Check me if I’m wrong, but I think Hornacek got there twice..
by suns68 on Sep 3, 2010 8:56 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
well at least it isn't in a bottle like mine
im also in a house with 4 kids ages 5, 3, 2, AND 1.
Drinking heavily.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
Looks like you picked the wrong week to give up quaaludes.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
and the wrong week to quit smoking..
…..(cough, cough) what was I saying? :-) Yes a very funny movie.
All good questions.
Is Blanks a puppet GM for the time being until he earns his stripes so to speak?
I’ll go with a polite euphamism here and call him a glorified scout for now. I don’t agree that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, though. A braintrust should consist of a small commitee, not a “Kerr-mitee” (hahahaha).
Maybe Sarver and Gentry have an understanding that we aren’t privvy to.
I think so. Alvin seems to be more than just a coach. He had input during the draft, he’s prominently featured during press conferences, he seems to be a happy medium between just-a-coach and coach/GM. I assume that his extension has been scheduled for the right time.
Will Dudley eventually be the odd man out?
Looking at the roster, Childress seems to be the biggest threat to Dudley’s tenure as a Sun. Childress has a higher ceiling than Dudley, he’s more versatile and could be a 35 mpg starter if needed. But will he provide the hustle and intangibles of Dudley? We’ll see.
Is 2010-11 the End of the Line For J-Rich?
I hope not. He’s the perfect counterpart to Nash in the backcourt, and he’s a goddamn firestarter. Lock him up, if possible.
How Will Steve Nash Adjust His New Role?
He was a good soldier while being screwed over by Porter’s system. This will be cake compared to that. At his age, he’s probably secretly relieved to have some help in the ball-handling department.
When Will One of the Mainstream Media Experts Give the Phoenix Suns a Little Credit?
They’re a bunch of dumbshits and assholes.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
Actually, the word I was thinking of....
For the majority of the mainstream sports media is “jerk-offs”, but yours work too.
They’re a bunch of dumbshits and assholes.
by East Bay Ray on Sep 3, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well I didn't want to leave anybody out...
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
Anybody ever read "The Choirboys"?.
I won’t go into great detail, but a bunch of dysfunctional LA cops come up with a list of names to call – ahem – lowlifes. It’s quite funny.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
reccd r mason for your comment on main stream media
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
i spose if i had some stones
i would have said something like that….
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
Dudley is so replaceable it's not even an argument.
8 points, 3.5 rebounds. Plus those otherworldly intangibles. If the rest of the league thought as much of him as some of the folks on this site, he’d be the perfect trade piece.
Look at Golden State for proof. Whatever you think of Don Nelson, he knows that there are many players who can fill a role in a system. In 2008 he made a name out of undrafted Kelenna Azubuike by playing him Dudley minutes (21mpg) and getting Dudley production (8.5p, 4r). Then last year he gave undrafted Anthony Tolliver the same shot and Tolliver went for 8p, 7r in 24mpg as a reserve before starting and getting 14 and 7 and getting noticed by Minnesota, who signed him this offseason.
I could give you a dozen Azubuikes and Tollivers to show you that, just like Dudley, a good solid bench guy is NOT too hard to find. And tell that guy to practice his un-defended corner threes and watch his stock rise just as high as JD’s is right now.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 3:56 PM MST reply actions
its not just about numbers
Matt barnes had better numbers with the Suns, yet I’d much rather have Dudley than Barnes.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Sep 3, 2010 4:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
and
And tell that guy to practice his un-defended corner threes and watch his stock rise just as high as JD’s is right now
its not just telling a guy to figure out how to hit uncontested 3s. Its getting him to make 5/7 in a Western Conference Finals game, and come through in the clutch with those open jumpers time and time again thats incredibly hard to find.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Not exactly consistent.
The same Western Conference Finals that saw 10, 11 and 15 point performances saw 3, 4, and 5 point performances. Replaceable.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 4:23 PM MST up reply actions
Well, yeah
If you want consistent scoring, then Dudley definitely isn’t your guy. But if you want someone that can swing a game’s momentum without scoring a basket, you couldn’t ask for much more than Duds.
I do agree that he’s ultimatley replaceable, but guys like him don’t exactly grow on trees either.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
The tree is called the NBDL.
I don’t think Dudley’s type is a dime a dozen. He’s proven his worth in many ways. But dig into the D league and find some hungry, undrafted guy who just wants to get the league minimum and latch on as a role player. Tell him “you’ll never get plays called for you and once you stop defending and rebounding, your already limited minutes will dry up and you’ll be strictly a practice player.” And not every guy will accept that assignment and excel as Dudley has. But for the purposes of this discussion (will he be the odd man out eventually? If Clark develops, is JD expendable? if the right trade came along, could we forgive the FO for letting him go?), I say get what you can for him and go looking for the next Azubuike in the D League.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
Dudley wants to be in the league for many years. He didn’t watch cartoons as a little kid, he watched Basketball. It’s all about the Intangibles. Can you find a guy who can do what Dudley does, yes, but can you find a guy with those type of intangibles. Dudley has an amazingly high Basketball IQ, its ridiculous!
Don't trade Dudley!
(un)tangibles
Carmelo Anthony punched a guy then backtracked the length of the court, so he’s a bit of a pussy. And he appeared in those infamous Stop Snitchin videos, too. But his scoring tangibles far outweigh those things.
Kobe Bryant has always been a selfish prick, but those rings on his fingers are some pretty undeniable tangibles.
Shaq and Kobe had one of the most dysfunctional partnerships in NBA history, but you can’t argue with their tangibles.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
I’ll tell, I haven’t seen many bench players like Dudley in the past 10 years. They don’t come around that often. Horry and Nocioni are guys that come to mind. Other than that I can’t think of anyone else. The only person I would trade Dudley for is Kobe Bryant, but that won’t happen now will it?
Don't trade Dudley!
I am on to you, "Beavis"
You are actually Jared Dudley. Just admit it. It was a great BSOTS scam while it lasted, but the only person who can be so comically in love with Jared Dudley is the media-savvy man himself.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 8:16 PM MST up reply actions
wait, you'd only trade Dudley for Bryant
so if the magic phoned up tomorow and offered Dwight Howard for Dudley you’d turn them down?
LOL.
Everyone is tradeable for the right deal. Everyone.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Sep 4, 2010 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
How often does the right deal happen though?
I wouldn’t trade Dudley for Lebron, Smith, Carmelo or even Horford. If it meant getting any of the top 5 players in the league(except Lebron), than yes. Meaning, Kobe, Wade or Howard. We should be trying to low ball teams like they did to us last year. That means not trading the leader of our bench.
Don't trade Dudley!
Dude, seriously?
You wouldn’t trade Dudley for LeBron or Carmelo? You have just lost whatever shred of credibility you had on this topic.
by East Bay Ray on Sep 4, 2010 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't trade Dudley in a minor deal, a deal that only makes us a bit better.
For example, I wouldn’t include him in a trade for a Jason Thompson-type player, a good player that fills a need.
But if he is necessary to bring in LeBron, I’m sorry Jared. I’ll still cheer for you, but you’re gone.
Jared is a terrific bench player who brings a ton of intangible, but he’s still just an average player overall. He is a great part of what we do, but he’s not someone we can build around, regardless of the intangibles he brings.
Dudz is very good at what he does
But what he does is replaceable. Actually, I’m not even sure he’s our best bench player. Dragic, Childress, Warrick and Frye are all guys I would feel fairly comfortable putting in our starting lineup if it came down to it. Dragic and Childress are almost certainly future starters.
I'd trade him for JAson Thompson
i wouldn’t include him as filler but if the kings phoned up tomorow and offered thompson straight up for Dudley i would say yes. Dudley is what he is, an unathletic energising bench player with a high basketball iq and a 3pt shot, we can’t hope for him to get much better offensively than he already is and a team that features him in a starting role is not a winning team. Don’t get me wrong i love the guy and he is in the perfect situation in Phoenix but his skills (even the intangible ones) are ultimately replaceable.
Not to mention he will be walking next year anyhow, dude doesn’t care about PHX and I’m sure teams will be offering 25/5 for him.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
We thought Amundson would get more cash than he deserved, yet he hasn’t even been signed yet.
I think people forgot about Dudley just like they forgot how good our bench was and that we made the WCF.
Dudley will just have to do what he did last year all over again. If he can do that again, than I’d lock him up.
Don't trade Dudley!
the offseason is the time when
people tend to value athletic ability over game-winning plays (not those necessarily tracked in the box score or advanced stats even).
This is exactly the time of year when Jason Thompson can be valued higher than Dudley.
I’m on the Dudley bandwagon as someone you don’t send away unless you are clearly making your team a lot better with what you get back.
(yet I’m not quite on the level of Beavis on this)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Dudley's Mom isn't on the level of Beavis.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I’m joking.
If I could trade Dudley alone for any of those top players than yes. However, it would take a lot out of me if he was the throw in. I think we should try to rip teams off and not include him.
Don't trade Dudley!
If it was absolutely necessary to include Dudley than I’d do it.
If the opportunity arrived for us to get Lebron, Wade or Howard by giving up J-Rich, a couple 1st round picks, Dudley and some scrub, than I’d do it.
However, if we were trying to trade for someone like Carmelo or Josh Smith and we had to give up both J-Rich and Dudley I wouldn’t do it. It really wouldn’t make us that much better.
Don't trade Dudley!
I'm not saying it is.
I’m saying that you can find hungry, undrafted players who project to be lifetime bench players (basically the reason they went undrafted), teach them to focus on 2 or 3 skills that they will use in their 20 minutes per game (wing defense, rebounds, threes, whatever), and they will shine in that role. And a lot of them will be good chemistry guys as well.
"You're gonna meet some guys that don't know shit about baseball that are writing about it; and it bothers you a little bit, ya know? Jesus." -Ted Williams
by JeHa on Sep 3, 2010 4:19 PM MST up reply actions
He is replaceable
We are just convinced by the situation. or maybe overwhelmed.
It is just in our mind.that we can’t replace him and we are insisting that.
We can replace him by a better player that can top his production.
another player that can beat his energy and enthusiasm, intangibles. etc.
But I will agree that we can get another bench player who can beat his stat, energy and another intangibles.(all category)
But we can get another bench player that is so close to duds that somehow beat almost all dud’s production. and after that we can say that. oh yeah, he is better than dudz.
Great post!
Those questions got me thinking! They also got me excited for the season, but also slightly anxious to see what we’re going to do this year. Anxious in a good way, though. I just can’t wait anymore!
The question about how Steve Nash will adjust to his new role has actually been a question that’s been bouncing around in my mind the past few days so I was excited to see write that. Im very curious to see how it plays out.
Also, I’ve been worried about everyone getting the minutes they deserve. Almost everyone on this team (at least at this time) deserves pretty good minutes and I don’t want that to become a chemistry issue. It never was last year, but there’s new and different guys this year. I suppose I am just sort of worried about Turkoglu… I still feel like I don’t know a whole lot about him and that makes me feel uncomfortable going into the season with him being projected as a starter…
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
Yea, I look at all 10 guys on the rotation and they all deserve at the least, 25 minutes.
Don't trade Dudley!
Alvin Gentry is a great coach
and I trust him completely..
But it will be very interesting to see how he comes up with a solution to this. I wonder if he will completely base it off of who is playing well that night (with the starters starting and getting their minutes, of course), or if there will be specific rotations so that everyone can get their minutes… I can’t wait to see!
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
by Dragic_is_Magic on Sep 3, 2010 8:18 PM MST up reply actions
Sacrifice is the only way it’s going to work out in the end. The Heat kind of have the same problem, but in a different sense.
How do we make 10 good players happy without them getting the minutes they deserve?
How do the Heat make 3 really good players happy without them getting the touches they deserve?
Don't trade Dudley!
Yeah..
Hopefully the chemistry will remain that allow the players to be okay with sacrificing minutes for the greater good of the team.. I think we have enough high character guys that will work out okay…
I don’t know how that will all work out for the Heat… Regardless of what you think about them (Im on the hate bandwagon, myself) they’re going to be an interesting team to watch this year.
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
by Dragic_is_Magic on Sep 3, 2010 9:16 PM MST up reply actions
Why the hell is mine the only rec??
Come on, people. This is a great post. Rec it!!
BTW, Wil paid me nothing in cash or liquor to write this, though I would gladly accept if he did.
This doesn't have jack
to do with this thread, but I’m watching USA vs. Tunisia on NBA TV and they have this Englishman who sounds like the Geico Gecko calling the game.
He just said a shot “struck the back of the ring.”
by suns68 on Sep 3, 2010 8:04 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I watched yesterday, and he said "he threw up rubbish." That was cool.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
oh I LOVE that guy
he’s like a fanboy who can formulate a complete sentence. I found myself wishing we could hire him for Suns games.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
like I said
I’d love to hear him call Suns games…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Back on topic
Please tell me we didn’t just dump one of the top three power forwards in the league to sign a guy to pass the ball to Steve Nash. For years, it’s been the goal of every team in the league to make Nash be the scorer, because he’s the best playmaker in the NBA and when he’s shooting, he’s not carving up the defense.
If we’re going to win without Stoudemire, somebody on this team will have to step up and be the man that takes the ball to the rack on a consistent basis. I’d say Warrick or Frye are probably the best possibilities.
No team, not even one that shoots as well as the Suns, can win by jacking up perimeter shots all night.
by suns68 on Sep 3, 2010 8:23 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Don’t worry about it. Alex is working on an answer right now…, eventually. You just have to look at the 05-06 team.
Don't trade Dudley!
and suns68
you’re forgetting the 05-06 Suns.
people say you can’t win with that formula again because the West is better than it was that year. But we’ll see. An unbeatable (regular season) scheme is an unbeatable (regular season) scheme, no matter the year.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
The answer lies in Earl Clark ( I hope)
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Sep 3, 2010 8:40 PM MST up reply actions
The only good thing
I know about Earl Clark, I actually learned tonight.
He doesn’t tweet much.
Ergo, it’s that much less of his I-love-me-who-do-you-love attitude to put up with.
by suns68 on Sep 3, 2010 9:36 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Clark is an enigma of sorts
In person he comes off as friendly and team oriented. He says the right things. Of course actions speak louder than words and all that.
He was especially grateful to be back in PHX after his late season stint in the D-League last season and his game seemed to improve. The FO and Gentry seemed happy with him. Kerr told me “this kid is going to be special.” But his Summer League comments were troubling as were a few of his games and Kerr is gone.
I think he’s going to get his shot to prove himself again this season. You really need to see this guy in person to appreciate how big and long he is. He has the NBA body. If he can pull his head together….well you get it….I’m of the opinion that this season will make or break his NBA career,
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 4, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Why don’t we just give the kid his sophomore season. We were all ready to get rid of Lopez and Dragic and the end of the ‘09 season, now we’re looking to build a future around primarily those two.
I’ve never been a huge fan of the Suns prototypical SF/PF breeds they seem to love so much. Too small to guard PF’s and can’t shoot well enough for the SF position- a la Marion. But with any luck and some PED’s Clark can at least fill out into an Odom type body and game.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
you're joking right?
he’s already bigger than Odom, I’m pretty sure. Its his head that needs to catch up to his body.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I just don't think
we can count on Clark to be a solid player off the bench. I hope the hell he proves me wrong, but at this time what ever we get will be extra sause on the pizza.
I think the management feels the same way or Warrick would not of been signed.
We don't need him to be a solid player off the bench this year (although that would be nice).
We just need to see some kind of improvement, some desire, something to prove that he will be able to live up to his potential down the road. We need to know if he will be part of the future.
How could hedo and warrick combined not even hit 20-9? If Hedo is even the slightest bit sincere about returning to form then there alone gives us a consistent 15-5-5 at the least
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
There’s no way Hedo and Warrick give us 23/9 as Amare did in the 35 min that Amare averaged. Although I do think Hedo’s rebs will improve from his career averages simply because he’s not playing beside a Dwight or Bosh.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
But we hope that together, they can give us the 27/13.5 that Amare and Lou gave us in 48 min.
That’s in the ballpark.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
well, maybe not those 2 in particular
27 maybe.
13.5 rebs a game between them? no. yet, 20 and 9 would be nice, and the C, SF and SG positions will pull down more rebounds per minute next yr than last year, I believe. Robin/Channing will be more productive in that area, and Childress >> LB in rebounding.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
We can certainly hope, those would be some career years from the both of them.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Don’t get me wrong I’m excited to see the Turk/Nash offensive creation in the works. But you can’t just replace an arguably undersized Amare with an extremely undersized Turk and Warrick and expect good things to happen. As bad as everyone claimed Amare was on the boards and on D he was leaps and bounds above those two guys. That’s why I’d rather see Turk off the bench rather than trying to hide his and Nash’s deficiencies on the defensive end simultaneously.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anyone accuse Doris of being a good defender or rebounder.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
actually
Doris Miaw was a pretty good positional and help defender. He’s helped Charlotte in that area, though Larry Brown is looking to replace him with someone taller and more interested in eating less.
Having said that though, I’m curious to see Turk’s defense with my own eyes. I think the Suns can keep him off the low-post-defense assignment for the most part (giving that to Lopez/Frye most of the time). Otherwise, he does play huge minutes for Turkey and for Orlando for years, and those are/were statistically great defenses. How does he do it (not ruining his team’s defense)? I don’t know.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
He started at the 3 on Orlando all those years. Rashard Lewis guarded the 4’s so that tells a lot. I mean the dude is 30 years old at this point and we’re asking him to do something he’s never done before, we gotta be realistic. I think we will hear Sir Charles within the first 10 games say the exact same thing he did about Frye last year starting at the C. They need to get a real Center… they need to get a real Power Forward.
That being said I love what Turk brings to the team but we’ve endured the below average post defense and rebounding that Amare gave over the last 8 years and to see a downgrade in that department puzzles me. These blatant holes in our roster from Amare were mostly overlooked because of what Amare could do offensively, and we still complained about him. Turk isn’t that type of player at 30. That’s why I’d love to see Turk off the bench at the 3 until Hill retires, we will be starting Warrick/Frye at the 4 within 10 games of the season.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
This whole situation just makes you think PHX is not done moving yet. They aren’t naive enough to believe that Turk is a long term solution at the PF and with Hill retiring soon it just makes you realize that they have something up their sleeve, and are going to pull something off soon.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
if by 'soon' you mean
Christmas or thereafter then I agree with you. I think they might actually want to see these players play first, considering they signed them this summer.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Christmas would probably be considered “soon” for me at least. And I think they are actively searching for a real option at the 4 as we speak.
I still have some faith that the end result management is looking for is a championship and not just to be entertaining. There’s no way this current lineup can compete with the likes of LA, Houson, SA, and some up and coming LAC, SAC teams with the dominant post games those teams have.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
They might be searching, but that doesn’t mean they will sign anyone until Christmas or all-star break. We’re already 10-11 guys deep like last year.
I think they want to see how Childress, Warrick and Turk will fit in before they consider trading anyone. They also want to see whether 30 year old J-Rich can keep playing like he did late last season and playoffs. Until we find out how good those guys can be for us we shouldn’t trade any of our vital players like Dudley and J-Rich( they are the most trade-able, but not very expendable). Just think if right now we traded both J-Rich and Warrick to the Hawks for Horford and we later find out as the season starts that Josh wasn’t the man we expected him to be. This means no real SG. Next thing you know, we will be looking for a good SG just like we were looking for a good PF.
Don't trade Dudley!
All due respect good SG's are easier to find than good PF's
Any SG with who plays decent D and can shoot an open 3 will work in this offense, our SG’s have never had to create their own shots. I personally want to see Dragic play more SG along side Nash. But I definitely do not want to trade JRich since he is our most clutch playoff player, we have plenty of pieces other than JRich to trade.
I fully expect the Suns organization to tread water between the 4-8 playoff spots with this current team until we can land a legitimate big guy until at least Christmas. That being said I see no reason why they wouldn’t try to land one sooner if something opened up. I’m just not sure we should kid ourselves at this point, we may have a nice record with Turk playing the 4 but I have zero faith in a 7 game series.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
sorry but I had to laugh
when you said this team couldn’t compete with Sac. Ridiculous.
In fact, this team can compete with anyone because this team will play a game that plays to its strengths, not its weaknesses. have some faith in Nash and Gentry, and remember 2006 and the second half of 2009.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
All you got out of that was Sacramento ? I’m saying we just don’t know about Sac yet, they have some nice young pieces. Those teams have multiple bangers down low, and no I’m not worried offensively about this squad. But playing to our strengths like outscoring other teams? I’m afraid playing to your strengths won’t help a team progress. If that’s the way we are looking at it we may as well be playing Nelly Ball and just trying to get the ball inbounded and up the court as fast as we can. That would be playing to our strengths.
Kerr set a plan in motion to be a more defensive minded team and I feel that it has been pretty much negated by bringing in undersized positional players. Teams will be ready for a zone this season, and if that’s our scape goat I’m afraid we’re in for a long season. I would have loved to see a J. O’neal pickup or someone like that this offseason to come off the bench not some 6’9 220 lbers.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
I think Boston got everyone who is bigger.
So playing to our strengths is a mistake? Wow. It’s going to be fun watching you defend that.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Playing D is not our strength. So we shouldn’t focus on it? Running the floor and creating mismatches is our strength. So in that light we should just grab a bunch of undersized big men who can’t play a lick of D but who can run up and down the floor. Oh wait we did. Now lets watch our boys get mopped by Gasol, Duncan, Scola, Griffin and the list goes on…
Its absurd to think the Suns organization with our brand of basketball is more intelligent than the rest of the league. When we haven’t won anything by putting up 115 a game. Look at every previous champion, they were all big teams and in most cases bigger than their opponent.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
dude
have you not watched any games of the Suns? I’m having trouble following this “you can’t win playing with smaller guys” logic.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
No you tell me
Tell me what we’ve won with small guys? A nice seed only to get ousted by a bigger SA or LA over the last decade. Forgive me if I’m not satisfied with a fun disappointment of a team year after year.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Some Pacific division titles, a handful of playoff series… More than a lot of teams can hope for.
Don't trade Dudley!
I wasn’t aware that every player’s ultimate accomplishment as a professional athlete is to win a division title.
Pardon me.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
If your definition of “won” is “won it all” then
Tell me what we’ve won with small guys?
Tell me what we’ve won with big guys?
Tell me what we’ve won with “playing to our weaknesses” as you suggest we do?
You sure have it out for me lol.
I didn’t say lets get a bigger squad so we can with ANOTHER championship. I said historically NBA champions are very big teams. So why do we think we are the smartest guys in the room by playing small ball?
This team playing to its current strengths isn’t going to win a championship. 115 ppg is fun but big physical defensive teams with championships not teams constructed like we’ve had for the last decade.
Nobody said we should play to our weaknesses.
Management wasn’t forced into creating a team that is undersized. They’ve had the free will to construct a team that resembles a historical championship team. So to create this 2010-2011 team that plays to our historical strengths and do things like we’ve always done and have failed (and failed and failed) seems like a poor decision.
You’re right its all said and done now, its after the fact. We’ve brought in 3 new pieces to this squad that will fit the old system, so our best chance at winning is doing things like we’ve always done so we may as well play like that. But nobody forced us to bring in these guys.
I think its just the fundamental problem with the team in general.:
We’ve generated the most revenue and national exposure by playing this way since Nash arrived so there’s little incentive to change it. This is a complete detriment to the bigger picture however (of winning), because its been proven time and time again this “system” of basketball doesn’t bode well for the playoffs and furthermore for championship contention.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
You sure have it out for me lol.
I have it out for bad ideas. Nothing personal.
…text…
Sorry, that’s as far as I got.
Again you’ve brought a lot to the conversation. “You disagree” thanks for the insight bro!
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
I’m sensing a lot of pent up anger. Let’s try to stay civil.
I don’t believe I said I disagree. But I did ask a question in response to your question.
You correctly argued that trying to win without bigs has not resulted in a championship. I responded with a similar, but opposite point – that trying to win with bigs has not resulted in a championship either.
I am civil I think that you need to look into the purpose of a sports blog. These things are set up for one purpose: debate.
You don’t need to come to BSOS for Suns News. It adds little value in the way of conversation to respond how you do imho. You can probably hold back the “I have it out for bad ideas” comments when you don’t come back with evidence that it is a bad idea.
And as I said look at what history has shown us about championship teams. The recipe for success is big physical play and hard nosed defense. I can’t remember a time when we did any of those things. So why not attempt to change our way of play to resemble past championship teams?
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Debate is healthy.
We can debate all day long, but I have yet to see it change one thing on the court. Of course, in basketball, bigger can be better, but getting a big guy for the sake of getting a big guy is not the answer. We have Nash, and as long as we have him, he is our identity. Gentry is also from the D’Antoni school, and as such, we aren;t likely to resemble the ‘bad boys’ of the Pistons. We will run, and we will gun, and we will play the best team defense that we are capable of.
I watched the Russia/New Zealand game today, and after that, they played a replay of the WCF Game 5. It wasn’t their big guys that beat us, it was Fisher and Artest – and they both played bad games. I will not acknowledge that because we lost that game, they were the better team. And I don’t want to watch 82 games of boring basketball just because it resembles some prototype from the past. You fight with the army you’ve got, and we’ve got a good one. You have stated that Turkoglu doesn’t play a lick of defense. That isn’t true. We have a 7 footer, a 6’11" Frye, a 6’10" in Turk, 2) 6’9" players in Warrick and Lawal, and we added length and BBIQ. I want to see what we have before we decide what we need.
We played some great D last year, and it was only a priority for about the last third of the year. I think this year it will be a much bigger priority. I’m excited about this year, and I think we’ll be very good. If a good big guy becomes available, we have the pieces to make it happen. Why argue about things that are hypothetical?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I like your comments haremoor my buddy, that sir is how you rebuttal a post.
I get active on this site from time to time and I guess the connection I am trying to make here is that I went active last during the Amare trade month we had.
There was one general topic that was hammered over and over and over, he can’t play D in the post and he can’t rebound, so he’s not worth an extension. This was the whole theme for a month.
The way I see it is now we replace him, which I’m over by now with 2 PF’s who aren’t really PF’s who haven’t rebounded more than 5 boards a game in their careers and who are quire a bit undersized to go up to the likes of the great PF’s of the West on D.
And I ask myself what kind of Kool Aid are they serving in the AZ water supply? We hate Amare for not grabbing 10+ boards a game but are on board for Turk who averages 5 rbg who will be what 36 and making 12+ by the end of his contract? I follow Suns basketball and Florida sports I’ve watched Turk for years (try) play D and he’s no prize. I mean Amare wasn’t great but he was at least athletic.
I’d love to love my team right now but these decisions don’t make any sense to me unless they have something in the works to land a real PF.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
We started Jarron Collins for most of the playoffs last year
And still, no championship. So, I give up on trying to win with big men.
Seriously, for the record, sorry waxmonkey, but i think PandRisDead won this exchange. Most here are committed to the Suns unconventional ways, but those unconventional ways have yet to prove they can win the ultimate prize.
Alright, Ray, let's throw down.
I think waxmonkey won this exchange. I just have one request-can we start a new thread so we’re not typing three word lines?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Hahaha. I just don't think there's a lot to discuss
The D’Antoni/Gentry/Nash Suns haven’t so much as won the Western Conference. So, this style of play is unproven to win it all. What is to argue?
Except for a single observation
I wasn’t even a part of this exchange. :)
But there was a lot of aggressive arguing here, so I can see where people might assume I’m a responsible party.
I’m not sure they were even observations just off handed taken out of context comments that provide nothing to the conversation.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
I would have rather had Scola over Turk, but oh well, it didn’t happen. Give them a chance before you judge them. For all we know, Dwanye Jones could end up being the next Dennis Rodman.
Don't trade Dudley!
boris was a good defender in the post
and he did pretty well defending tony parker in the playoffs in the duncan-3 series
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
except
of course when shaq has another break out year
What keeps going through my mind is what if we HAD resigned Amare?
In light of the Melo news that we couldn’t have predicted of course we could have been front runners in that sweepstakes. Just made it to the WCF pushing LA to 6 with our entire squad coming back. You’d think at that point we’d be at the top of his list for places to sign an EXTENSION, since now he’s eager to go to just about any +.500 team.
-Resign Amare to16.8$ this season
-Obtain Hedo the same way we did
-Resign Fry with our MLE
-Sell of JRich, Clark, Dudley, 1 or 2 first rounders: to match his 17.1$ salary. (Arguably he’s worth 2 first rounders as a top 10 player in the league)
-Resign Lou with Bird whatever 2.5-3$
-Pick up some free agents to fill in spots at the 2 & 5 positions the way the big dogs do. Serviceable older players 5-10 min max on minimum contracts searching for rings.
-Move Hill to the starting 2 since he guards most 2’s anyway
Lopez/Amare/Melo/Hill/Nash
Frye/Lou/Hedo/Dragic + fillers
That would put as at about 64$ in salary + Frye’s MLE to 69.2$ so we wouldn’t be going too deep into luxury tax.
IMO Sarver would be eager to spend around 70$ on this championship caliber team.
This will give this team a 2-3 more seasons before Nash is put to sleep and Amare’s knees blow out to win a championship.
What could have been…
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
I"m fine with the team
We still got my boy Nash and we’ll be fun to watch. It’s apparent we aren’t seriously trying to win a championship with this squad.
Besides I got my boys down here in Miami-Wade-County to bring me home a trophy this year. Not quite a Suns trophy but it’ll have to do.
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Fiction is one thing
but this is bordering on Star Trek fan fiction.
But you’re right, it’s not my place to knock it.
Star Trek fiction? IF we would have resigned Amare like we should have this turns into a reality!
In God we trust, all others must bring data.
Sure would
except for the part about Melo.
No! Not again! :)
No need to go there, we all know where everyone and their mothers stand on that topic.
I'd rather stay small
Our small fast teams have consistently gotten us deep in the playoffs.
The two times we went to the finals, once was with a 6’6’’ power forward and the other was with a 6’9’’ center.
In fact, the only reasons we don’t have a championship now were a freak eye injury to Joe Johnson, suspensions when Horry pulled his dirty play and a nose bang on Nash that wouldn’t stop bleeding in crunch time.
We might well have taken the Lakers last year except for Kobe’s shot coming up an air ball (and who would have expected that?) that landed in Artest’s hands.
Whenever anyone talks about this team going big, a cold wind blows through my heart because I remember Truck Robinson and William Bedford and Oliver Miller and Jake Tsakalidis and most of all, Shaquille O’Neal. Disaster. Sheer, unmitigated disaster.
The only way to get a Duncan-quality pf would be to throw an entire season (or more) and suck so badly that we’d get enough lottery balls for a top three pick. Then we’d have to spend another five years building a team around him, if he doesn’t turn out to be the next Oden or Daugherty.
Screw that.
by suns68 on Sep 6, 2010 7:58 PM MST via mobile reply actions
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