Anthony Randolph For Orlando's #1 - One Future Asset To Another?
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 8:11 AM MST
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PrintRosterbation belongs in the FanPost Section, so that's where I'm placing it. Before you call me names and rail against me for starting up a 1,000-fanpost weekend on the trade machine, let me make something clear:
I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE THE ROTATION AT THIS TIME!!!
This is not the time to mess with the rotation again. Next month, sure. But not now.
I am simply thinking of next year, and wondering if we should take a flyer on a young, high-talent guy being dangled for a #1 pick that the Knicks can re-package in another trade.
Suns could potentially acquire Anthony Randolph for Orlando's #1 pick, using most of the remaining Amare trade exception.
Randolph's upside: rebounds like crazy and blocks a lot of shots. 6'11". Still only 21. Tons of talent.
Randolph's downside: terrible, terrible, horrible, horrific BBall IQ. Has fallen out of rotation on two consecutive teams who really needed his skills, employing coaches who value instinctual BBall talent and shot-making.
Consider Randolph the exact opposite of Jared Dudley
Back to the potential trade...
Suns would not have to disrupt their current team at all. They could just stash him on the end of the bench till next season.
The Knicks want as much cap space as possible this summer to lure another star to join forces with Amare, so the Suns' trade exception is a perfect partner. The Knicks don't want a long-term player back who will count on the cap next year, and they won't get anything useful for this season from anyone else in the league. Sure they'd love to get a good rotation player for Randolph, but no one's going to provide that for a dude who can't make D'Antoni's rotation.
The Knicks want a #1 for repackaging (there's no 2-month waiting period on draft picks like there is on players) and that's it, and the Suns have an extra one from Orlando.
The notion that a lottery team would give up their mid-round-or-higher #1 for Randolph is a joke. If that were true, Randolph would be on another team already. The best the Knicks can get is someone's low #1 in 2011 or 2012. Enter the Suns.
Randolph would likely be a bad fit on this current Suns team. He can rebound and block shots, but he can't shoot for anything and has a terrible, terrible BBall IQ. He'd simply mess up the spacing even more than Frye/Warrick tandem does. He makes bad decisions and has no clue what's a good shot vs. a bad shot.
But on a future team, with a proper training camp or two for integration, Randolph could maybe possibly be great value for a low #1. He's only 21. If he works out, great! If he doesn't, no worries.
This is just converting one future asset (#1 from Orlando) into another (young boom-bust player)
Just a thought.
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You read my mind
I was just on the ESPN website and was reading the Knicks just want a first rounder for him. Randolph has a ton of talent, I would do the trade in a second. He’s young 22 or 23 I think he is a playmaker and he rebounds very well. He is what we all wanted Earl Clark to become. Also I think we should make another trade that gets more talent. Like trade two players for 1 better player. We have so much versatility on this team that almost everyone can play multiple positions unlike last year we dont need to be 10 deep I think we should cut the rotation to 8 players maybe 9.
this trade would simply be for next season
the Suns could/should put Randolph on the end of the bench for now. There would be no pressure to play him at all.
Regarding the bigger trade, that’s a totally separate deal.
The downside of getting Randolph now is the very upside for the Knicks. If the Suns give their extra #1 away, then that’s one less asset in a bigger rotation-upgrade trade next month.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
so, if the Suns decide to stick out the season
as-is, then picking up Randolph would be a good thing for the future.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Its a no brainer for the orlando pick…I might even consider giving up the suns pick for him. Unless suns totally implode, they will end up w around 15 pick and AR is prob worth that
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 15, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Plus, with the potential lockout
its probable its going to be quite a weak draft, loads of players will probably rather stay in school for a year than jump straight into unemployment.
Still, some will have to come out as seniors.
Some will come out regardless of the lockout rather than risk injury, and for the chance to go higher than they would in a crowded draft the next year. Regardless, it’s a PF rich draft.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Top PFs
from nbadraft.net
No seniors in the top 10
Power Forwards
1. Donatas Motiejunas 7-0 224 PF Benetton Treviso 1990 Top 5 potential. Played thru injuries last yr. Has rare offensive skills for a 7’.
2. Jared Sullinger 6-9 286 PF Ohio State Fr. Uses his deriere well to create space. Lacks much lift but is tough as nails.
3. Jan Vesely 6-11 230 SF/PF Partizan Belgrade 1990 Cool is a cucumber in ’10 F4. Clutch performer. Lacks true NBA position.
4. Trey Thompkins 6-10 247 PF Georgia Jr. Not a specimen type, but extremely skilled offensive repertiore.
5. Derrick Williams 6-9 241 PF Arizona So. Was a top FR in country. Legit 6-9 with 7 foot wingspan. Needs to improve J.
6. CJ Leslie 6-9 207 SF/PF NC State Fr. Combo F. Freak athlete with a high motor is a winning combination. Very raw.
7. Willie Reed 6-9 220 PF St. Louis Jr. Long, agile dunk machine. Offensive skills unrefined. Needs bulk.
8. Marcus Morris 6-9 218 PF Kansas Jr. Extremely productive and versatile PF. Short (6-7) wingspan.
9. Tristan Thompson 6-9 225 PF Texas Fr. Freakish length and explosiveness. Will need to prove he has the desire.
10. Markieff Morris 6-9 230 PF Kansas Jr. Much closer to his brother in skill level and ability than stats suggest.
Real name no gimmicks
Good idea but...
I like the idea. I think Randolph has just as much if not more potential than anyone we could pick up with an Orlando pick that is going to be pretty low in an unremarkable draft. Unfortunately it sounds like the Twolves have a better pick to offer and are interested. Plus his agent says he wants to play and I don’t know if Randolph has the maturity to sit the remainder of the year for a shot next year.
by spf13 on Jan 15, 2011 8:56 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Anthony is 1.9 mil this year, 2.9 mil next year, and 4 mil in 12/13.
Not much of a risk there. But I still think we could do better – and I hesitate to dilute the total package. Still, we don’t really need the Orlando pick – we’re still awfully deep. It’s going to be difficult to break in new players.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
by haremoor on Jan 15, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
haremoor,
agree with you. difficult to change the roatation now and break him in. Plus we should keep the draft pick a larger potential trade by the deadline.
What I am not sure about Anthony Randolph is his true skill – draftexpress says he is more like a SF and a potential PF, but his true skill as a SF. If that is the case then we are not getting what we are looking for – we woul have another Frye but instead of the shooting skills, he will have slightly better defence.
Having said that, here is the link to what draftexpress has to say on AR:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Randolph-1069/
SUNS should scout and figure how is he really using his down time since he is not getting any playing time from D’Antoni. whom we all know works in “pass” or “fail” mode. either you are in his good books or you are not. We have to see if AR has truly improve his jump shot and other skills since this draftexpress report.
and here's what ESPN says about him
coming into this season:
+ Slender, long-armed lefty with advanced ballhandling skill for size.
+ Great shot-blocker and good rebounder but leaves feet too easily pursuing blocks.
+ Lousy outside shooter and subpar decision-maker. Effort, work ethic in question.
Randolph played 33 games of exhilarating Jekyll-and-Hyde basketball before an ankle injury shut down his season. Heights included 28 points and 13 rebounds against Orlando, eight blocks against New Orleans and an amazing five offensive fouls drawn in one game against the Clippers. Other times it looked like his brain was vacationing on Mars — most notably during his 0-point, 0-assist, 1-rebound “effort” in Detroit.
The overall takeaway is that Randolph holds a lot of promise for a 21-year-old prospect who entered the league very raw. Randolph has the potential to be a Marcus Camby-esque dominator defensively — he rated third among power forwards in blocks per minute and sixth in steals per minute — and needs only to improve his understanding and effort level to become an ace disruptor.
Offensively, he has much to learn. Randolph can create shots but has no clue what a good one is, so he too often settles for a flat-footed, line-drive jumper that he flicks off his shoulder. Reports differ as to his attitude and work ethic, although that may partly result from the dysfunctional environment at Golden State. He’s a valuable player now and could be amazing in a couple of years, but a lot of rough edges remain.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3455
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with spf13.This draft is not impressive, if you dont have a top 10 pick you really won’t get too much in this draft. It’s crazy how the NBA works just last year this guy was going to be the centerpiece to a trade that would have landed the Warriors Amare now the Knicks are basically giving him away. I would trade a pick and possibly Warrick to get Randolph if he would have stayed in school I think he would have been a sr this year. I say play him if we are rebuilding anyway lets see what we have with him. Part of me wants us to tank the season so we can get Kyrie Irving..Sorry
by Lebrontophx2010 on Jan 15, 2011 9:14 AM MST reply actions
Knicks wouldn't want Warrick
they are trying to clear cap space and any player coming back for Randolph cannot be re-packaged this season.
Knicks are just trying to get the best pick possible. If they’re really lucky, they’ll get a pick AND an expiring. Suns wouldn’t do that. No one will do that. But the Knicks are likely holding out hope just in case.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Wouldnt hurt
But I have yet to see pho as one of his potential landing spots
Lover,Poet,Suns fan,All around damn good guy.
now you have
;)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
So are you saying
That we are in the mix for him or is this just wishfull thinking?I read alot of indiana and minnys intrest but never us,But wouldnt you think they would rather send him to a western team than a eastern conf. team?
Lover,Poet,Suns fan,All around damn good guy.
by stevedavis_ on Jan 15, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Mmm, pho.
I love a hot bowl of pho on a cold winter day.
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 15, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
I wrote a fanpost about him a while back
I’d love him here. Complete idiot…pretty much an “extreme” Earl Clark. But if he ever gets it together, he is going to be AMAZING. Absolutely amazing. If not, no worries…Orlando’s pick is a weak pick.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
exactly
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
I'd still rather have a smart player.
Guys with low BBIQ’s scare me – you can’t count on them late in games, they are rally killers.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
yes, that's the big drawback
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
smart player
We’d have to sit him on the bench for like 4 years before he would start hitting his stride and being more mature physically, emotionally, mentally. He’s going to be better when he’s 25-26ish. Can we sit him until then? Unfortunately, he’s going to need playing time too.
Orlando pick weak at the moment
However there is a half season left.The magic are one dwight howard knee or ankle from beign fu**ed
Lover,Poet,Suns fan,All around damn good guy.
I still think we could get a better player in this years draft if...
we would package both our 1st round picks to move up to top 5-8 this year maybe higher (1-3 spots) with V.C.’s 4 mil buy-out for next season (if there is one).
Beware of the Anger of a Patient man.
no ones going to take
an expiring and 2 lower #1s in exchange for a pick in the 5-8 range. Find an example where that has actually happened.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
It was just a thought - that's all.
By the way Alex here is a nice article that confirms your post about a trade:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71157/20110115/knicks_will_soon_trade_randolph_for_pick/
Beware of the Anger of a Patient man.
Why is this here?
I don’t know, but I’m on the fence about this. But then again, you all know better than I do. His low BBIQ isn’t appealing to me. He does rebound and he’s only 21. He does seem like another Earl Clark, but Earl did seem to have decent BBIQ. I don’t know.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
Alex, I can't believe you created a rosterbation post
But I have to agree, I wouldn’t mind dumping the Orlando pick for him. I don’t know of any PFs that are going to be worth while drafting that low that will be anything better than Randolph is right now.
Here’s where I see him:
He’s Channing Frye of 2 years ago when everybody in Phoenix hated him but management and Gentry. Frye 2 years ago had a horrible basketball IQ but a lot of raw talent. I think Randolph in 2 years of SLOW development could be better than Frye is right now (and we all love the current Channing Frye that blocks shots, plays defense, hustles, and above all rebounds, right?).
So I think its a worth while move to make BUT only if he doesn’t get any sort of rotation time (outside of garbage minutes), plays a bit in the D-League to get some reps, and works, works, works in practice.
Anything else is taking away valuable minutes from players that need time on the court to help the team win now.
right
I don’t want to change the rotation again, unless he earns his way in after a while in practice. Mainly, this is a next-year move.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
I was thinking this since yesterday.....
as soon as i read earlier in the week ny wanted a first round pick for him our Orl pick was the first thing that came to mind. It’s going to be a late round pick anyway.
If NY said yes i would give them ORL pick in a heartbeat! Do it !
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
do you guys remeber what this kid was doing in summer league for GSW?
straight killin, i think he even had an almost 40 pt game one night too.
This would be a good move for us. We are so far behind the rest of the legue. Not only are we mediocre at best we have no proven exciting young talent. Suns have alot of work to do and for ORL pick this would be a great move.
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
right but Randolph
showed a lot of potential and stats in GS as well, before getting put in the doghouse.
and comparing Randolph’s D-league to Janning’s is not fair to either player.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 15, 2011 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
aaah ty knew somebody else remember him killin gsw summer league
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
I know it's a bad comparison,
but in my opinion, potential is all there is in Randolph at the moment. A hard coached prospect that needs the ball in his hands to shine is gonna have a hard time blossoming in Phoenix.
Yes, the doghouse.
He’s in D’Antoni’s doghouse now. When he was with the Warriors he was in Don Nelson’s doghouse. Maybe it’s because he’s a dog?
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 15, 2011 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
yah yah yah but matt janning played not like AR did for GSW in summer league.
i dont feel like google stats but i remember him tearing it up. Janning tearing up summer league? not so much.
but i know what you mean summer league ain’t shit. but you got to admit that much athleticism in a 7ft is nice.
Suns need young pieces to develop, this core is not goiing anywhere.
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDefTdwIx0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eIgWRcMRzw&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TJARASNxEo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgyybTWnyaY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsepV-kEIkY&feature=player_embedded
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
not sure how anybody wouldnt trade orl lousy 1st rnd pick for this guy....
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
I think this would be a good move
a late 1st rounder for a guy with upside. He has a taste / feel for the nba. i think being brought along slowly in the suns offense, and worked in the rotation for next year would be good.
what i can see happening is phoenix getting in the NY / Denver trade as a 3rd or 4th team.
i also read somewhere that golden state is likely to trade monta ellis. is this something the suns could persue (as i’d rather have him than carter).
Ellis has grown into a great scorer,
but definetly not someone to build a franchise around. At the moment his stocks are way too high to pursue a trade anyway.
i don't want the suns to build the franchise around him
but he’d be a great addition to the team… ellis > carter IMO (both contract and playability wise).
Won't happen
Why would the Knicks want the Magics pick which could end up being the 2-3 worst pick in the 1st round when they can get a trade worked out with Minnesota who’s 1st round pick will end up being much better, plus they get Sebastian Telfair as well.
Espn
Minn, Portland, & Indiana are potential suitors
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6023466
MN has a pick from Utah, and one from Memphis, as well, in addition to their own.
Both the Utah and Memphis pick are lottery protected, and I’m sure MN is not talking about their own pick, which will probably be a top 5 pick.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Here -
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6023466&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Would he be worth
rolo beign part of package? If minn,indiana among others are that interested the price of a pick alone will probably go up.The knicks wont want a big salary as part of pacage.
Lover,Poet,Suns fan,All around damn good guy.
Definitely not, Steve. Rolo is coming along. He is going to be an awesome player. Randolph probably will be too but will take years. I would trade a pick for him, but I wouldn’t give up the Fro.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 15, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
Right.
Frolo is only 22, is a legit 7 footer, and is improving and learning daily. So, for that matter, is Gortat. I feel really good about both of those guys (and Frye) as they develop their skills with Nash and Dragic. Gortat is a much better passer than I thought he was, and once he learns the offensive rotations, I think he’ll average 5 assists per game, even as a backup.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
5 Assists a game is shooting a little high....
but yes, I do agree that he is a far better passer than I could’ve ever imagined. I think the main thing Gortat needs to work on is his hands of stone. He drops way too many great passes and puts too much into his lay ups. Once he can fix his hands, I think his game will expand tremendously.
For Lopez, I’m starting to have my doubts. Is he really improving? His offensive game is stale and he doesn’t have one single go to post move. He is literally the worst rebounding Center I’ve ever seen. He just doesn’t get it.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Robin's 22, and really just in his second season.
He was getting double and triple teamed late in the game by Camby and LMA, as well. He’s going to need some time to develop, but he’s doing well. His outside shooting has actually been pretty good, and he focused on boxing out Camby, and did a good job on that, too.
Gortat and Lopez do different things, and give different looks. I think they are a very good tandem, although inexperienced. But they’ve both been playing with energy, and they’re getting experience. Gortat is slowing his game down just enough to be a little more successful – not rushing things as much. When he’s got Warrick and Chill on the floor with him along with Dragic and Dudz, he’ll hit the slasher to the basket when the D collapses on him.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
While I cannot deny Randolph's talent
I just don’t want him. He’s been in two player friendly systems and thus far hasn’t really set the world unfire. He also has virtually no muscle. I see his maximum upside being a Tyrus Thomas-Lite. I’d rather use the first rounder to acquire a more established power forward.
However, I probably would trade FroLo straight up for him….I’m really sick of Robin.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
He hasn't gotten much of a chance
He played two seasons in Golden State where he averaged 8 points and 6 boards in 17 min as a rookie and 12 points and 7 boards in 22 min as a sophomore. This season he has barely played at all due to Dantoni’s tendency to bench young players for no reason. He also lit the summer league up and was named mvp of the summer league.
by gophoenixsuns on Jan 15, 2011 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
Earl Clark also lit it up in Summer League before...
Would I take Randolph on this team? Absolutely but not for a first rounder. That first rounder will be valuable come trade time.
I’m not denying his talent, I just don’t want another project. There has to be a reason why someone with this much talent hasn’t panned out yet.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
No he didn't.
He had 2 good games in two years.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
He averaged 15/5 with a block in 5 games played this past summer league.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Yeah - on 31%, 42%, 50%, 35%, and 21% shooting.
He finished the five games with a 37.2% shooting percentage.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
We need somebody big and athletic up front. Warrick is our only athletic guy and because of that he’s the only one that usually doesn’t blow Nash’s alley-oops and PnR’s. However, he isn’t big.
Don't trade Dudley!
Some people are just like slinkys, they're good for nothing
yet can still manage to put a smile on your face
when pushing them down a flight of stairs.
He's 4 pounds shy of Josh Smith - and he's as tall - maybe taller.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Anthony Randolph is 225
and Josh Smith is 240.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Josh is like 2-3 inches shorter, isn't he?
And Josh is big. He’s super strong.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
I was talking about Warrick.
And Randolph is listed at 210. Josh Smith is at 225, and Hakim Warrick is 219, per HoopsHype.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
You're right about Warrick
but Randolph is 225 and Smith is 240, per NBA.com.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Every other site buts HoopsHype as Smith listed as 240.
Same with Warrick being 219 and Randolph being 225.
The thing you saw about Josh Smith from hoopshype is his measurements pre-draft.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
You're right that nba.com and espn.com list Smith at 240.
But basketball-reference.com, draftexpress.com, and hoopshype list him at 225. I try to avoid nba.com and espn.com as a general rule, but Smith does look a lot bigger (and more ‘rooted’) than Warrick, so I’ll give you that one.
Randolph still looks pretty skinny to me, though.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Yeah, but he's super lengthy...Always hard to tell with those guys.
Just looking at Smith you can see that he for sure weighs 240 and maybe more. He’s huge now compared to what he looked like when he entered the league.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
It amazes me how we all hated Randolf and said no to this like 2 weeks ago and now people are changing there minds? He’s just another Earl Clark, but with even more talent, yet a lesser Basketball IQ. We can do much better. This is settling.
I don’t mean to offend anyone or you Alex. I see the reason in it. He’s still pretty young and might become good in the future, but we need to think bigger.
Don't trade Dudley!
Some people are just like slinkys, they're good for nothing
yet can still manage to put a smile on your face
when pushing them down a flight of stairs.
bigger than a high 20s pick in a weak draft?
or bigger than other potential trades we could make with a high 20s pick in a weak draft?
This pick could help us as a piece to a trade and Randolf is not the answer.
Don't trade Dudley!
Some people are just like slinkys, they're good for nothing
yet can still manage to put a smile on your face
when pushing them down a flight of stairs.
he's not an answer
but he could possibly be a freebie
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Good point Beavis
We may end up trading that pick +unwanted unused player for cap relief.
Trade Warrick!!!
I don't like Randolphs game
and never wanted to give up a valuable player for him. But if the requirement is a low #1, then that’s worth it. Suns have no top-ceiling prospects.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
and acquiring him
has no impact on trading Vince and a wing for a bigger thing
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Question here, Alex.
The pick could certainly help in a package deal, but only if we do the (Vince/package) trade before the deadline, right?
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
if you include Vince in any package
with another Suns player, it can only be Feb 18-24 of this year.
if you trade just the pick and Vince, then it can happen any time before Feb 24, or after the season unless the Suns have already released him/paid 4 mill (and only after the new CBA is around).
Frankly, the Suns COULD decide to keep Vince and use his 17 mill in a trade to a team whos really screwed under the new CBA. A team who HAS to give someone away to make the new, lower cap limit. They could acquire Vince, release him and only pay 4 mil (saving them 13 mil). The Suns, on the other hand, could be low enough under the new limit to absorb the guy.
The more I think about it, the more I’d lean to keep Vince for now. He might be someone’s lifeline.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
the more I think about it
the more I think Vince’s contract might just be Babby’s ace in the hole for the new CBA.
Vince gets 17 mil next season if he plays, but as low as 4 mill if he’s released. (I say “as low as”, because if someone released him next January, for example, he might have already earned more than 4 of 17 mil).
So he’s a “get out of jail free” card for a team who needs to unload salaries. They can acquire Vince and release him to save a boatload of money. The Suns, on the other hand, would have a low enough payroll number to absorb the incoming contracts and could maybe get a gem that way.
oooohhhh… I wouldnt get too excited over a Vince trade any time soon. Babby could turn out to be a slick bastard…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
the Mavs
tried this with Dampier this season and got Tyson Chandler for it. The Bobcats tried the same thing – with Dampier – and got nothing.
However, under a new CBA there might be harder lines on the cap. Some teams might be forced to pare back any way they can. a releasable contract like Vince’s could be golden.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Is it like in the cartoons? Did a light bulb just appear over your head?
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 15, 2011 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
He seems to be talking to himself, but his fingers are doing all the work.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
lol yes
I was talking to myself and a light bulb came on
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Yeah, I've been thinking about this, too.
Draft is June 23. CBA expires June 30/July 1st.
If we trade Vince + a pick and other players, we have the window from Feb 18 – 24th. If the right player were available, that is when we’d have the maximum leverage before the new CBA kicks in. However, it doesn’t look like the right player is going to be available for us, barring a miracle. So then, if we haven’t traded the pick separately (which I assume we could do right up until draft day) we would pick twice in the first round on June 23.
Then, July 1st, there is the lockout. Without a lockout, we would have until early Jan (it was the 16th this year) until VC’s contract was fully guaranteed. But what if the lockout goes past that date, or that date is changed because of the new CBA? We would still have the residual expiring nature of VC’s contract at least until the trade deadline.
The owners are talking some radical steps – big, retroactive salary cuts, longer rookie contracts, 4 year max contracts, no MLE, a hard cap – there are going to be some teams left with some big problems to deal with. I don’t know exactly how it will end up, but it will probably favor the owners, and the big market owners will benefit the most. It could force smaller market teams to give up franchise players. The Suns are positioned to deal with this very well, no matter how it goes. If it’s a quick lockout, and not too radical of a solution, we will have cap room that we can keep or trade. We will have lower salary guaranteed 5 year contracts (which will be 3 1/2 years by then) who can play. We will have another middle size expiring in Pietrus, and Nash’s expiring, as well (unless we extend him, which I hope we do). We should be able to lock up Dragic and Lopez for less money, and maybe reap a windfall from teams that can no longer sustain the big spending (if revenue sharing actually happens). All in all, I think we’re positioned about as well as anybody, without knowing which way it will go.
If the lockout goes for the entire year, however, everybody might get screwed. Don’t know exactly what that would mean, but it’s probably not good.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
by haremoor on Jan 15, 2011 4:19 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I've actually written three posts about this -
but they make “War and Peace” look like a first grade reader. I can’t even sit down and proofread them, let alone cut them down. This is a scenario where every detail matters, and you can’t ignore any of them. Part of the problem is getting good info – I was misled into thinking the old CBA was in effect until September – I read it on the Internetz, so it must be true – but alas, that wasn’t the case. It’s hard to figure out what could happen, but I think Babby has us positioned very well no matter what happens. VC’s contract is just one of the things he’s done well. There was a purpose in wrapping up Dudz, Frye, Chill, and Warrick the way he did, and there’s a reason he’s waiting to extend Dragic and Robin. I expect him to try to extend Nash and Hill, as well.
There’s also a reason we’re not dealing right now. We would be a perfect candidate to get into the Melo trade, but the fact that we’re not tells me that he has a larger plan, that may not come to fruition until after the new CBA. Just a hunch, but we’re sitting pretty nice any way it goes.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Well as of right now
most of the teams that are over the cap are playoff-bound teams with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 teams. Some of the players many of us rosterbaters covet happen to be on losing teams that dish out less salary than us. We do have the assets to make another “blockbuster” trade but it’ll probably have to wait until near the deadline.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
I don't think anyone ever hated Randolph...
Just that whenever there was those Amare to Golden State rumors floating around, a lot of people didn’t want him as the centerpiece.
I’d like Randolph as a last ditch effort or if they wanted nothing in return for him. Like, for instance if New York called us and said “Hey, we’ll trade you Randolph and Kelena Azubuike for Pietrus” I’d do it in a second.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
If David Kahn trades a likely top 5 pick for Randolph he should be fired
That would be one of his worst moves…and that’s saying something.
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jan 15, 2011 2:56 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Minnesota has their own pick, plus one from Memphis and one from Utah (both are lottery protected).
So it would likely be below a 15th overall pick.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
This is a no brainer
And he’s been in pretty difficult work environments. Dont underestimate the value of a good team environment (Steve and Grant) and patient coaching. We have a need for an athletic PF who can defend and finish. Once he sees that playing the ‘suns’ way will get him minutes and make him look good, he would become an important part of the rotation
The skills are there, the head just needs to be screwed on right!
Dubs fans thoughts on Randolph
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1080611&start=15#p26231263
Presiding opinion seems to be “Could be really awesome, but he’s a complete idiot and kind of sucks right now.”
Anthony “Earl Clark” Randolph.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
But Anthony's "flashes of brilliance" seem to be truly extraordinary
And a little more numerous than Earl’s.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Do you have a link to Randolph's more numerous extraordinary performances?
I’d like to compare the two.
Let Josh Childress play
Looking at only his 2008-2009 season stats those are some pretty impressive numbers, but then again,
The max minutes clark had played in his career with phoenix is 22 minutes and in that game he went for 10-8. This season he had an 18 minute game in orlando and went for 12 and 2; against orlando he went for 12 and 6. Otherwise, Randolph has produced A LOT more except in more minutes.
Let Josh Childress play
Im curious so please dont be too harsh on me, but if the suns wanted to get randolph, why did they get rid of clark?
Clark rarely got pt, but when he did he wasnt too awful. Imo, that is the same deal with Randolph.
Let Josh Childress play
That's kinda what I'm thinking.
I look at our trade with Orlando that we downgraded from J-Rich to Vince Carter for the privilege of unloading Hedo’s contract and picking up a quality role player big in Gortat. Then we got their 1st round pick for Earl Clark. If we did this deal then, it would mean that we essentially swapped Clark for Randolph.
In a comment thread a few months ago, I referred to Randolph as a slightly upgraded Clark since Randolph is younger and more raw (only played 1 year of college ball while Clark played 3) so you can probably expect more growth from him, but now I’m not so sure. Both have low basketball IQs. Randolph has also been portrayed as sort of a headcase. My moderately educated hunch is that Randolph will never live up to his potential because he lacks the mental makeup to succeed. And that’s the same way I feel about Clark.
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 15, 2011 7:38 PM MST up reply actions
Techincally, the Suns backed the magic into this deal-the magic wanted wings players that could fill it up
(Thats Jrich) and the suns said the only way that jrich is coming to orlando is if they also take hedo; the main reason orlando did this was because they wanted scorers and were willing to depart with underused gortat and their best perimeter defender. Fortunately for them, Hedo has been playing the best ball of his career (Essentially the best ball of his career) and this meant they swapped hedo for lewis. Orlando wanted some compensation for losing a big man in gortat, so they asked for clark and knowing that they would be an easter contender they threw in that pick. Now, unfortunately for clark, ryan anderson and brandon bass have been playing out of their minds. (I realize you probably dont care for my analysis, but the point of it is, that Clark and Randolph both have a lot of value, and although neither of them will probably not reach their potential, even a quarter of that ceiling is worth a rotational spot. Clark is encumbered with a very poor mental attitude while randolph is incapacitated with being a jerk-off who also like clark, tries to do things that he is not entirely capable of.
Let Josh Childress play
Clark absolutely doesn't have a poor mental attitude.
He was always highly praised for his work ethic in everything I’ve ever read – unless it was comments on BSotS.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
And we even see him doing good things when he's out there playing for us.
His jumpshot is obviously questionable, but he plays excellent defense and does well when he slashes to the hoop. Yes his basketball IQ isn’t super high, but he’s still a pretty decent player. He has potential, no doubt.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
Is that why he couldnt get into the rotation or even sustain solid play for longer than 20 minutes?
Alex said it a couple of times-clark’s attitude is simply not there yet
Let Josh Childress play
No, I don't believe Alex said that.
Maybe he said his mental game isn’t ready, but I don’t recall him or Seth saying he had a bad attitude. As for cracking the rotation, Chills and Pietrus aren’t cracking it either, because we have too many players.
Clark is doing well in Orlando, and he’s getting more chances there than he got here.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Clark is doing for the Magic what he did for the Suns.
Sitting on the bench. He’s gotten meaningful minutes in 1 game this calendar year, logging 5 DNPs in 7 games and less than 2 minutes in another game. In 7 games. He’s totaled 8 points, 4 rebounds and 0 assists in 2011. Let’s not let this “Clark is getting more burn and producing more for the Magic” myth grow.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4619/gamelog;_ylt=An7aZ.UaqmY8hjpXef6PJpakvLYF
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 16, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
He's played almost as many minutes since the trade to Orlando as he did in Phoenix -
72 (Phx) to 58 (Orl). 14 games with Orlando, vs. 25 games with Phoenix. I’d say that is more burn. He’s improved his shooting average from 38.7% to 54.5%. He’s gotten the attention of his coach:
“I thought that Earl gave us a good lift when we needed some big minutes out of him,” Van Gundy said following Friday’s game. “I think that Earl is going to be a really, really good player. I really do. He’s offensively very talented: he’s got great quickness, he can shoot the ball, he can put it on the floor. He is a very hard-working guy. He’s the first guy in here every day. He comes in on every off day. Every game he doesn’t play in, if you go in the gym afterwards, he’s in there working out after games [at] 10 o’clock at night.”
That doesn’t support the comments about his attitude.
Stan continued, "I love what he brings to the table, I really do. I think as he goes on I think we will see the same type of jump that we have seen with Brandon and Ryan."
Dwight Howard said this:
"I think once Earl understands the offense and the defense, he’s going to play a major role on this team," Howard said. "But right now, the energy and effort he’s bringing on both ends, he’s playing hard. The more he plays, the better he’ll be."
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Look at his game log and see the trend in his minutes.
He got in more games in his earlier games with the Magic, probably because they wanted to see what they had. Now they see what they have and he’s back on the end of the bench. His shooting % is better, but it’s a bit small of a sample size to make a definitive judgment on, isn’t it? 12-31 for the Suns, 13-24 for the Magic.
What Van Gundy and Howard say about Clark is irrelevant to his bottom line production. Kerr, Gentry and various Suns players said similar things about Clark’s potential when he was with the Suns.
He might end up being an effective player for the Magic. For now, he’s a bundle of potential who is rarely trusted with significant minutes in their rotation, just like he was for us. Any depth chart you find (ESPN, Yahoo, CBS Sportsline) has him out of the Magic rotation.
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
~Friedrich Nietzsche
by East Bay Ray on Jan 16, 2011 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
No, but it does address the "very poor mental attitude" comment.
And my stats support my comment that Clark is doing well in Orlando and is getting more chances – which is all I said.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
On a side note randolph had his 5th 20-20 game of the year-bring this mofo to town. I have included him in 95% of my rosterbation posts
and I’ll say it again, bring this crazy bastard here.
Let Josh Childress play
Oh Bkj, when will you start getting a stiffy for Blake Griffin?
That’s where the party’s at.
"I'm just like you, but 10x better." - Steve Nash
I rike it.
A plausible trade idea...
But, I just am not sold on Anthony Randolph ever getting his head out of his butt (ala earl Clark). He has a ton of upside, but he just doesn’t seem to…get it. If New York was his first team, I would say, “Yes”, but it’s his second team where he has found a way to stay on the bench….
What really troubles me is both of those systems that Golden State & New York play are similar to the uptempo offense that Phoenix runs….If he can’t make it there, I am not sure he’d figure it out here…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
He was just about to come through in Golden State.
Randolph is the next bonafide breakout star, no question, in my eyes. I really never heard that many discipline problems coming from his direction, and his on-court talent is beyond question. I would start him at the 4 right now, seeing as we have no other options. The other thing about Golden State was Don Nelson, and that was certainly something. He hasn’t gotten a shot in NY because of Amar’e.
This is a fair trade. Kind of is, but kind of isn’t. When you consider that we could use that Orlando pick to leverage ourselves into a better pick combined with our pick, then we probably shouldn’t trade the Orlando pick. The pick is worth a lot to us. Anthony Randolph is worth next to nothing to New York. The deal then switches places; Anthony Randolph is worth a lot to us, and the Orlando pick is worth something pretty much only to Denver. So, we trade something that is worth a lot to us for something else that is worth a lot to us. New York trades something worth next to nothing for something that is much greater, perhaps a shot at Melo. We’re giving them a lot more than they’re giving us, even if we’re getting something we need. In the end I think we need the pick more. The Lottery may set us free.
When fictionally asked to comment on the state of the Phoenix Suns, GM Steve Kerr said, "Arizona."
by hookedonphoenix on Jan 16, 2011 6:41 PM MST reply actions
You're trading a 27th overall pick
for a guy who has top ten pick potential. I see it the other way.
Trade Warrick!!!
NO ONE
ever trades backwards in the NBA. In the NFL, two players are usually better than one – but in the NBA, one great is what you want. NO ONE will trade 15 and 27 for 6, or 10, or even 13. Won’t happen.
Better to trade the pick for a player like Anthony, unless we can use it in a mega trade before the deadline.
I remember the number 3 and number 5 picks being exchanged a couple years ago
I believe the Wolves traded down to 5, and picked Kevin Love. Seems to be working out pretty well for them.
Trade Warrick!!!
The suns need talent but they also need winners
And those two qualities are mutually exclusive to basketball players. It’s the difference between Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett.
I’m not saying we couldn’t use any of Randolph’s talent, but we shouldn’t be focusing on fringe players who might contribute far down the line.
Teams that win championships have the following three things
1) Talent
2) Winning personalities
3) David Stern’s blessing
It’s still possible to win an NBA championship without #3 (Just ask Chauncey Billups), but when announcers say that teams lack an identity, it’s because the team doesn’t have a leader with a personality that becomes the team.
I’m talking about the fire of KG and Kobe (I’m not a Kobe fan, but the man has fire) or the bravado of Sir Charles or the Ultimate Coolness and desire to be the best of MJ. It’s cheesy, but these guys are winners because they KNOW they are in their hearts. These are the Ginobili’s of the world (again, not a fan, but Giniboli does what it takes to win).
Basketball players are talents but first and foremost they’re people and that’s who is playing on the court: people, not talent. I don’t see a winner when I look at Anthony Randolph.
Then again, I don’t see a winner when I look at LeBron, but being an athletic freak of nature can open doors.
We don’t have a lot of winners on our squad. Winners don’t get scared like Channing Frye and brick their first 100 shots because the guy from The Shining is watching.
We need a mean streak and guys who DGAF where they’re playing or who they’re playing or who is in the audience. We need Kurt Thomas, JRich, Stephen Jackson. Because, let’s face it, Stern doesn’t want the once-in-a-generation talent like MJ or LeBron or Duncan or Shaq in a Suns uniform. There’s no money in that.
Before I get flamed...
I did not mean we should trade for Kurt Thomas or JRich or Captain Jack now. JRich is gone and not coming back, Thomas is too far passsed his prime (but could still help this squad, actually) and Stephen Jackson already has one foot out the door of the league, but during the Dubs “We Believe” run he was about as solid as a guy can get.
KT would be a low risk low reward deal
but his skillset is perfect for the team. If you could move another player out in a deal (Warrick, Pietrus), it would be worth it, IMO.
Trade Warrick!!!
by jc79 on Jan 16, 2011 10:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Since you mentioned Stern
this trade would likely make the Commish smile, as anything that helps land a superstar in NY is OK by him.
Trade Warrick!!!
Talking of Kurt Thomas
Thinking of how we paid (2 first round picks) to give Kurt Thomas’ $6M salary (on a expiring contract!!) still pisses me off. Kurt was a good player then.
And look at Cleveland possibly only getting a lottary protected round 1 pick from the Bobcats for his $21M salary + the 2012-2013 player option. The lottary pick to Cleveland means that they will probably only get a round 2 pick since the Bobacts have a higher chance of being in the lottary fo rthe next few years as they dump this team and rebuild.
And we paid $2 unprotected round 1 picks for dumping $6M in a good player with a expiring contract to a team (Thunder) who wanted him at that time to mentor their young players.
aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
thomas was 8 mil
and with lux tax it added up to 16 mill for a guy Mike D would only play about 55 games a yr for 16 minutes per. Thomas was way overpaid. Still, giving away 2 #1s with him was ridiculous. blame Kerr for that. Kerr got pantsed, big time. Bad, bad trade.
You would think no team would be that dumb again.
But OKC did it AGAIN last spring, this time to New Orleans. OKC “took” Mo Peterson’s $5 mil expiring deal on draft day and was given the guaranteed #10 overall pick for their trouble (they took a big C, I forget his name right now).
IMO, that was a better trade for OKC than the Suns trade. From the Suns, they took on bigger money and less-guaranteed picks. Neither pick ended up in the lottery (though one was used on Obaka, who should have been drafted a lot higher in retrospect).
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Of all the players we've overpaid for in the last 6 years...
I’d rather overpay for KT than any of them.
Shaq, Hedo, Frye, Warrick, Childress, Barbosa, Q, Matrix,(OK, I’d love to have him back too, but he never deserved more than 12 mil per). And I’m sure I’m missing a few others who took their hometown loyalty bonuses or their “potential” and laughed all the way from the bank to their next team.
KT was the sole bringer of pain on our squad, and he would be on our current squad too. Nobody defended the post—especially Timmy—like KT. He should have been given more minutes when he was here anyway.
And aw man, give ol’ crazy eyes a break; the luxury tax problem wasn’t his fault. It’s not fair to say we were paying him $16 mil just because that’s how much we saved. Cutting any salary would have relieved us from the tax.
right, but who's if not KTs?
Barbosa, Diaw, Amare, Marion, Nash and Bell were all much more valuable than Kurt Thomas at the time. They played every game (not just against the right matchups), were younger and more talented.
Still, that was a shitty trade to give ANYONE up that summer. And even then, Kerr got hosed on the trade. Completely.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
If we HAD to get rid of one of those players
I would have gotten rid of Barbosa. And I don’t just say that with hindsight. To me, somebody who could guard Duncan 1 on 1 was much more valuable than a microwave off the bench. At the time the finals were pretty much whoever won the Suns Spurs series, so getting some anti-timmy was essential.
Now, the same doesn’t go for the Spurs last year who were missing the hunger, cohesiveness, and roids to Timmy’s legs that they have going this year.
Look...
It was a TERRIBLE trade, but the thing people forget is that there was exactly ONE team that could trade for Thomas. ONE.
That means OKC had all the chips, and could demand whatever they liked. Hence, the results :)
I'd much rather trade Orlando's for someone else first...
Like, I’m sure the Kings would take it for Landry considering they know he isn’t going to come back next season. Landry is a guy who can help us right away. I know, the dude isn’t a great at rebounding but he could total come here and put up 18/7.
However, if nothing comes up trading a pick in the high 20’s for a guy that has top ten talent works out well. Suddenly, our future would look a lot brighter with him in the fold along with Dragic and Lopez.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Remember....
The T-Wolves traded their second round pick (which will only be a few pick lowers than Orlando’s first round) for Michael Beasley and look how well that’s worked out…The same could happen to us.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
You mean how he launches 30 shots a night,
scores 25 a game, and the T-Wolves are horrible?
Trade Warrick!!!
And how is this Beasley's fault?
21/5.8 47% FG(He only averages 18 attempts a game) 43% from three.
I have a friend who is an avid Minnesota fan and I’ve watched more games of them then I’d like to admit but Beasley has been a steal for them and they have a pretty nice future in Love/Beasley and Rubio if he ever decides to join the mix.
If we traded Orlando’s pick for Anthony Randolph and got that kind of production I’m pretty sure everyone would be thrilled…Well, except you.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Beasley still isn't quite there yet
But he could be. He’s still too dumb and young to be a winner but he might turn it around. The kid is still fresh out of a drug problem and who knows what else.
But right now he has too many mental lapses. He’s making the most of his opportunity playing on a bad team right now. If he was playing on any decent squad he wouldn’t be putting up numbers close to that. I’m not saying he can’t get better, or that he can’t end up being a good player on a good Minny squad someday.
And for somebody who plays the 3 and 4, shooting 47% isn’t anything to brag about. Neither is not even 6 RPG in 33 minutes. He averages more turnovers than assists, and 18 shots a game is a lot to take for only producing 20 points. The only really impressive thing about B-Easy is his 3-pt %.
He’s doing better right now, but I’d be careful to give him any more praise than that.
He's only 22 years old
You could use the drug problem liberally though, if you consider smoking pot a drug problem then about half of the NBA has a drug problem. I think it was more depression, having huge expectations and a huge contract to live up to, and just being rich, young, and very immature in Miami of all places. He’s basically improved every year he’s in the NBA and he’s still so young, there no reason to believe that his game wont get better than it already is.
47% is pretty impressive when you’re on the T-Wolves and only have two legitimate scoring threats in Love and Beasley. I’ll give you that his rebounding totals are a bit of a disappointment, especially compared to the Numbers that he put up in college but it doesn’t mean that he can’t turn that around.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
You can only make so many excuses for a player
until you realize that’s all you’re doing.
perfectly put
And for somebody who plays the 3 and 4, shooting 47% isn’t anything to brag about. Neither is not even 6 RPG in 33 minutes. He averages more turnovers than assists, and 18 shots a game is a lot to take for only producing 20 points
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
This is partly Beasley's fault
because he takes a large volume of shots at less-than-average efficiency.
However, it’s more the fault of the defense in Minny, which is inexplicably bad, considering they have an elite shotblocker (Darko), a rebound machine (Love), and a ton of depth at the PF/C positions (Tolliver, Koufos, Baby-Stewie-whats-his-name?) Will someone please take a foul?
Actually, I put it on Rambis, as that’s his responsibility to get the most out of the team.
Trade Warrick!!!
The reason I don't want Landry
Is because we have enough players who aren’t starter quality. If Carl Landry is in our starting lineup then the other 4 guys have to be a lot better. He’d be a good backup, but then we already have Warrick and Frye who are decent backup 4s.
Basically outside of Nash and Hill, we don’t have any guys who could and should start for a championship team. That means we’re playing by platoon—a bunch of not-quite-there’s trying to put their Wonder Rings together to make a sum greather than the parts.
I’ll pass on proliferating that status quo.
He's much better and than Warrick and has more size (6'9 250)
On the offensive end and the defensive end which is one of the more underrated parts of his game. Just last year, he put up 18/6.5/52%FG. Playing in our system, along side Steve Nash I’d say he could easily replicate those numbers. I wouldn’t break the bank for Landry and he isn’t my first choice but for a first round draft pick in the high 20’s, plus Pietrus or Warrick or something like that, I’d do it in a heartbeat. There wouldn’t be much of an adjustment period either, he could help this team right away.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
I'd probably prefer Jason Thompson though...
8.4 PPG and 6RPG in only 20 minutes is pretty sick.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
or Serge Ibaka
last few games ibaka scored 16ppg and 12rpg in 25 minutes.
If this actually were possible
It would be great success. Too bad we don’t have anything the Thunder would want. (Frye for Ibaka plz?)
The Thunder have 3 PF's
so getting one isn’t out of the question. It’s just that Ibaka is the one they’re least likely to trade.
Trade Warrick!!!
I do agree
That Landry would be an upgrade over Warrick and Frye, but I’m not sure acquiring players with draft picks is the best way to improve right now. With the 25th pick we could get somebody just as good or better than landry. We might end up with just another backup but that’s what Landry is anyway.
If we could get Landry for a combo of some of our superfluous guys, then I’d like this trade a lot more. J-Chill and Frye for Landry? I’d do just about anything to get rid of Frye.
I’d rather have a rookie because when Nash goes Gentry is probably going to retire, and we can hire a coach who won’t ruin the youngsters by telling them offense is the best defense. We could draft and groom guys to fit our image and get a little familiarity going rather than trying to assemble spare parts into something. Look where that strategy has gotten us so far.
Who I'd really like to trade for
is Nene. If Carmelo goes and the Nuggets blow it up and go young with Lawson then I’d be willing to give up a pick and some players.
What if Denver trade Melo
And STILL make the playoffs? I think they could personally!
I think that's definitely a possibility
But there’s just zero chance they’d advance beyond the 1st round.
Right now if they’re 4.5 games ahead of 9th place. That’s not a very strong lead, but they’re competeing with us, Memphis, Portland, and maybe New Orleans for the final two spots. Any one of those teams could still drop off significantly in the standings, so I woulnd’t be terribly shocked if they still made the playoffs because Karl has the other guys still playing.
But I’d say if Carmelo goes, the Nugs have the least chance out of those 4 teams to grab a spot.
Why do you want rid of Frye?
He’s shown drastic improvement in both years he’s played for us. He’s still relatively young, and his contract isn’t exactly a millstone.
Of all of our players, his is probably the most tradeable. That’s the only reason I can think of we would trade him.
Trade Warrick!!!
I just don't get Frye
I don’t understand how he was rewarded for his showing against the Lakers with a 5 year contract at $6 mil annually. That’s hands down the worst choke job I’ve ever seen. He lacks mental toughness.
My other beef with Frye is that he tries to do things on the basketball court that are beyond his skill and IQ. If he ever does anything besides catch and shoot it’s usually a TO or a really bad clank. Whenever he puts the ball on the floor I cringe worse than from watching Matrix jack up a triple. Occasionally he does well when we post him up against a little guy in a mismatch created by a switch, but that’s it.
That contract we had him on before-at about $2 mil annually—was perfect for him. He’s spare parts, not part of the future. He still doesn’t rebound or play defense at even an average level. The Knicks and Blazers saw right through this guy and they were right—if he’s getting more than 12-15 minutes a game where he plays within himself and doesn’t think he’s LaMarcus Aldridge or the Blerdy Kobe, then he’s a mediocre end-of-the-rotation kind of player.
Yep, you just don't get Frye
His performance against the Lakers in the playoffs wasn’t a choke, so much as it was a matchup problem, and a coaching adjustment. Lamar Odom is a very mobile, agile big man who can close on shooters, and he was given instructions not to leave Frye to double. Frye bricked a load of shots because he was well-guarded.
As for posting up and ball-handling, those aren’t things he’s supposed to do out there, beyond posting up PG’s on the switch, and a simple escape dribble on a hard close out.
His rebounding is highly underrated. His DREB% is in the 15’s – that’s about the same as Amare. It’s not elite, but it’s certainly not bad. His overall number of rebounds is low, yes, primarily because of his offensive rebounding. Frye is a horrible horrible offensive rebounder. That’s because most possessions he’s standing 27 feet from the basket, which is by design. Likewise, our SG’s and SF’s have high OREB% for their position, because that’s part of the design of the offense.
As for his contract… I guarantee you that a dozen teams would be willing to pick that up for us. Big men who can shoot well and aren’t afraid to give hard fouls – that’s something rare, and useful, that allows us to play offensive schemes that other teams can only wish they could play.
Trade Warrick!!!
by jc79 on Jan 19, 2011 5:48 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Terrible timing. Frye has been spectacular the last few games. He’s also been pretty good defensively all year. The offense just wasn’t there. He’s hitting his shots now we have our rotations figured out and he’s well worth the contract.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 20, 2011 11:46 PM MST up reply actions
The thing with Frye
Is he plays just well enough some games so that people always want to give him another chance. The dude has 15-25 solid games per year where he strokes 3’s and puts in the effort on both sides of the floor. I’m not going to use the word homer but nobody is salivating to get Channing Frye.
He has serious mental focus and toughness. I watched the games, and Frye clanked horribly a lot of open shots. He also took a lot of bad shots which are those shots youre talking about.
He is a horrible defender, and I don’t care what kind of statistics you throw at me I watch Channing Frye. He is consistently matched up with a better rebounder. When you play the 4 and 5 you’re going to get a lot of rebounds just because you’re in position.
Half the game is mental, and Frye is missing that half. And he isn’t exactly 100% on the other half either.
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