The ONLY equitable Nash trade (A Rosterbation of Reason)
by UASun on Jan 31, 2011 6:11 PM MST
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PrintLet me start out by saying this: I DONT WANT NASH TRADED
And if the Suns are anywhere near .500 at the trade deadline, I don't think there's a chance in hell Sarver (who's rightfully enamored with Nash) lets him go. Nash is more than the face of the team - he's the face of the franchise for it's entire history.
Sure, some of us are KJ fans, or maybe we're whores for Barkley's 3 seasons in a Suns uniform. Or, we'll try to be historical, and throw out a name like Walter D or the Hawk.
But Nash is a two-time MVP, seven time all star whose taken the Suns to three WCF and spent the majority of his career in the Purple & Orange. He'll be the only Suns player in the Hall remember for being a Sun. (I guess Hawk too, but I'm a Suns fan and I think of him being a ABA/Playground player).
This is, first and foremost, the reason why Nash can't be traded. He means everything to Phoenix, and he's a "good" player to every other team. How can you meet in the middle there?
This can be shown from both sides: other team's fans, who think we're trading him to New York for Ray Felton and Eddy Curry (ahahahahahahahahahah)
This can be shown from our fans, who think he's getting traded to the Heat for Dwayne Wade, or the Thunder for Russel Westbrook.
Thus I propose the following trade, for the following reasons: 1, I honestly think it's the only remotely reasonable trade that has a chance of happening, and thus 2. to discourage further Nash rosterbation. Without further ado:
Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Channing Frye and Pietrus/Warrick to Hawks
Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague, and #1 pick to Suns
Suns: If we're going to blow it up, the Suns should blow it the hell up. Not just trade Nash, but then hold onto all our expensive, multi-year contracts. The Suns ship out arguably there two best players, but we also unload two of our worst contracts - with Vince's contract expiring (kinda-sorta) this sets up the Suns to be almost $15 million under the cap. Phoenix has always been able to lure free agents here, so you get to add Free Agent X to a Dragic-Smith core, with young role players (Teague, Dudz, Lopez) around them. The also now have 3 #1 picks in the upcoming draft.
Hawks- Starting line-up going forward looks like the 04 Suns to me - Nash-Johnson-Hill-Frye-Horford. Horford isn't Amare offensively, but he's 10 times better defensively. You've got 3 shooters (Nash-JJ-Frye), three good defenders (JJ-Hill-Horford) - I absolutely think this team contends. Plus, there bench would be passable (Bibby-Jordan Crawford-Williams-Warrick).
Plus, Smith is a good young player signed to a reasonable contract. Don't like him? Flip him and Teague to the Wolves for Love+Brewer (my dream). Go forward with Dragic-Love and be $20 million+ under the cap.
Yeah, that went a little long. But besides a trade to ATL, I don't see anywhere else Nash can go. So, this is farewell rosterbation. I hope it's yours, too.
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i acually like that one, i dont think we’ll get a first round pick on top of that but still, not bad
don't like it at all
Suns are not getting enough with that trade at all. As of this summer, they’ve got Smith to show for it. Crawford is a free agent. Other than that, its Teague and about the 26th pick in a top-heavy draft, which kinda equals nothing. Ugh.
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I'm not really going to disagree with you
My point is only that it’s the best we could get.
I think Smith is an All-Star . . . but yeah. It’s a lot about room to woo a free agent, and the draft, which I don’t agree is top heavy – it’s just a crappy draft. The good news is, in crappy drafts, your as likely to hit something at 26 as at 12, since they’re all “projects”
its not a great return
but i think the fact that nash is almost 37 is alot more important to other teams than it seems to be here. taking that into consideration its a much better return than the other reasonable trades ive seen,
and no, nash for eric gordon and blake griffen does not count as reasonable, so please, no more of that kind of stuff
Compare Nash at 37 to Mike Bibby at however old he is.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
ahaha mike bibby
the point is however incredible nash is he’s not going to be playing when hes 45 so alot of teams arent going to want to give up good young players and draft picks so they can have him for a couple of years
The Hawks are in an interesting spot though.
They have a couple years left of JJ’s prime. The need to win now before they are stuck with a 40-year-old Johnson making $20 mil. And what has Jeff Teague done to show he’s the PG of the immediate future?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
Indeed
Atlanta makes the most sense as a trade partner for Nash, since they don’t have an elite PG already, have a reasonably young asset worth trading for (Smith).
The thing that kills this trade is the idea of Atlanta taking on more long-term money. They couldn’t really be THAT pound-foolish could they?
(looks at JJ’s contract) Never mind.
Trade Warrick!!!
good effort but a good nash trade idea for nash does not exist. and I’m not just saying that cuz of my unhealthy mancrush on nash
"It's nice to feel good at 32. I don't feel old. I don't feel like this is getting harder. I feel like this is getting easier, if anything." Steve Nash
by 2NASHTY on Jan 31, 2011 9:12 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
wow
super fail… fuck it i quit.
"It's nice to feel good at 32. I don't feel old. I don't feel like this is getting harder. I feel like this is getting easier, if anything." Steve Nash
After all these mistakes, THAT'S what makes you quit?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
by Omaha Sun on Jan 31, 2011 11:28 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
When you make a mistake regarding Steve Nash, quitting is the only acceptable solution.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
hmmm
3 situations.
1.do nothing
nash and grant hill stay and we play mediocre ball while no one else on the team gets any better. Nash has the ball in his hands all game and no one else bothers to learn how to create for themselves or others. Dragic gets 15 min a game and further proves last season was an outlier. We have a glut of wing players that never get the minutes to show that they have trade value or can even help in any way. This is what happens when you trade for all those “good” contracts and then essentially prove them to be worthless.
The advantage to this route is that the suns are making money of their steve nash cash cow. Cant blame them because it is just a business.
2. the idea to blow up our roster for an almost all star level player. We trade everything and just assume josh smith is our TOP DAWG of the future. Players get the in game experience that they need but we will SUCK. I love the trade for josh smith idea but if we have to get rid of nash then it is bust. Smith would be the only starting quality player on the team. Also remember that he is basically the third option on a team that cant get over the playoff hump. He is not a best player on your team kinda guy and everyone but suns fans know that. He is a 3rd maybe a 2nd best on a quality team.
One more thing. If we blow up a team and look for the future we now have a super athletic player that is reaching his 30s by the time we can realistically make a playoff run. He is not the future of a team that is rebuilding.
3. Keep nash and trade for players that are available but probably not worth their contracts. My dream would be josh smith and iguadola. Would make a nasty defensive team that has offensive explosiveness. But the truth here is that the suns would basically have to do something like the magic did. Take on nasty ass contracts that could make you end up looking like the cavaliers when it is all said and done. And doing this you would have to remind yourself that you are building around a player that probably wont be there much longer.
The entire reason I posted this idea was your "Number 3 option"
So your idea is to combine Nash with Iggy and Smith?
Whoop de freaking do- who would be against that?
I have a more important question – how the hell do we get those players?
You say Smith is “a third option on a team that can’t get over the playoff hump”. 3rd best on a quality team? He was the freaking runner up to Defensive Player of the Year! On the Suns, he would average 10 rebounds, 2.5 blocks and 2.5 steals and probably win the award. But, defense doesn’t win championships, does it?
Plus, how are we getting him, without trading Nash? I’m sure the Hawks are just dying to trade their 24 year old defensive ace for scrubs like Pietrus and Warrick.
And we’re going to get Iggy, despite the fact the Sixers turned down Mayo and Granger for him. I’m sure there just dying to trade him for Vince.
This was the whole point of my post – we’re not going to add some amazing star without giving one away
no
my option was highly unrealistic and i completely understand that. Nothing more then a pipe dream because the reasonable contracts we have picked up are worth absolutely nothing.
Yup smith is a beast but there is a reason why everyone thinks he is on the move. Why suns fans think it is possible to obtain him. Why al horford and JJ are the team and josh is somehow expendable for the right pieces. He is a defensive beast and of course we know that but you are saying that we will become a better team by loosing our entire offense with Nash. You are saying that josh smiths defense replaces the efficiency, assists, points and leadership that Nash brings to the table and is what we need to actually make us better.
Right now i see us only having 4 legitimate pieces to trade. An expiring contract that is huge and possible to unload after the deadline, Gortat, Dudley and first rounders.
And i didnt know that they turned down mayo and granger for him to be honest. When did that happen? I figured they were rebuilding and i thought they were looking for cap space and picks. I also figured the hawks could be interested in gortat and something to lower their salary(witch we dont have).
Fair enough
I don’t think we would be better trading Nash for Smith, I think it’s the only way to rebuild in a reasonable way. We would definitely be worse for a couple seasons.
The Hawks want a young, starting center and a point guard.
I think if we offered the Hawks Dragic/Lopez/Pietrus/1st rounder for Smith/Teague they’d take that offer in a heartbeat.
The question is, would we do that? I’m not that high on Dragic and can’t really ever envision him being more than our back PG/sixth man.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
I don't think they'd take it in a heartbeat.
I think the trade would need to look more like Dragic/Gortat/Pietrus/#1 for Smith and Bibby.
RoLo hasn’t proved to the L that he’s a bonafide starter, we could sell high on Gortat. Dragic hasn’t proved he’s bonafide either, so I think they would want to keep Teague.
That said, I still do that trade.
I hate all this crap about trying to get defensive oriented players
The Suns ARE an offensive-first team. Seven Seconds Or Less was arguably the Suns most successful era of basketball (obviously injuries/suspensions/referees halted any chance of a championship). Sure, people say defence wins championships, and thats most likely true, but to try and lure all these defense-minded players onto our team spells disaster.
Anyone remember Terry Porter?
Josh Smith, sure, he’s a terrific PF/SF. But he’s limited offensively apart from dunks, above average passing for a PF and the occasional shot. Obviously I don’t have a ton of statistical evidence to prove that, but from the Hawks games I have watched, thats all he really does on that end. Who knows, maybe playing in the Suns system would change that.
"He is probably one of the hardest players I’ve played against since I’ve been in this league."
- Gilbert Arenas
"They have a lot of individual talent, but Steve Nash is the motor that makes the car run."
- Jermaine O'Neal
"He makes the game very easy for his teammates... He’s a true point guard."
- Tim Duncan
and lets also remember:
Igoudala cannot carry a team on his shoulders. He should be a third option on a team as well as the player guarding the other teams best wing player. But not in a Suns jersey, because then he’d have to be the 1 or 2 offensive option. And that won’t work.
"He is probably one of the hardest players I’ve played against since I’ve been in this league."
- Gilbert Arenas
"They have a lot of individual talent, but Steve Nash is the motor that makes the car run."
- Jermaine O'Neal
"He makes the game very easy for his teammates... He’s a true point guard."
- Tim Duncan
by The Solution on Jan 31, 2011 11:41 PM MST up reply actions
The problem is that Smith would be tremendous playing next to Nash. But if we give up Steve in order to bring him in, it loses its luster. Smoove is less of a first option offensively than Iggy.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
exactly what i was thinking
I don’t know if Dragic is a Point Guard or a Shooting Guard anymore. So is Zabian Dowdell good enough to make a decent offensive team out of Iggy and JSmoove?
"He is probably one of the hardest players I’ve played against since I’ve been in this league."
- Gilbert Arenas
"They have a lot of individual talent, but Steve Nash is the motor that makes the car run."
- Jermaine O'Neal
"He makes the game very easy for his teammates... He’s a true point guard."
- Tim Duncan
by The Solution on Feb 1, 2011 12:09 AM MST up reply actions
Not really.
He’s a good 3rd-stringer at this point.
Although if you bring in Smoove AND Iggy, I think Goran will be fine at the point. Iggy can help Dragic with the playmaking duties, and Smith can chip in as well.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
yup
look at their offensive numbers. They are fast defensive players who bring it on the offensive end. It is like getting the best of both worlds. A good comparison is the matrix..
ehh who cares.
there wont even be a next season :)
If you don't want to trade Nash then why post this?
Also, Barkley was here for four seasons, not three.
Reasons why this would never happen:
1.The Hawks would never do this trade idea because they need to save money. This just locks them up with more financially for the next few seasons. If they are going to trade Josh Smith, it’s going to be for young talent and expiring deals. They also need to net a solid starting center so they can move Horford to the 4.
2. The Hawks play at one of the slowest paces in the league, and mostly play through Iso-Joe. Bringing Nash there would either make him less effective, or would force management to change their philosophy of play entirely. Joe Johnson is the man on the team and is the primary play maker. Is the best option? Probably not, but he’s making a gazillion dollars right now and giving up on their franchise player a half a year into his six year deal would be an EPIC failure on their part.
I thought I would have more reasons…But that’s it. I’d say they are two pretty big reasons though.
Ah, yes! Now I remember my third reason:
3. AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO!!!
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Oh, I thought of another reason.
The Hawks aren’t true contenders at all. They have no chance of getting past the Celtics, Magic, Heat, Bulls, or probably even the Knicks.
If we are going to trade Nash, it’s going to be to a championship contender, not a middle of the road team who will most definitely be knocked out in the second round. He could just stay in Phoenix if he wanted that.
That’s right, we’re making the playoffs, BITCHES!
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
Couple Things
1. Posted the idea because I wanted to prove there’s only one place to send Nash within reason, and thus, people should get use to Nash on the Suns.
2. (Your #1) – This myth that the Hawks want to move Horford to the 4 is an outside-the-organization myth, like the idea that Suns fans want to trade Nash for ray felton. I never hear it from Hawks fans, or from the organization. Would he be better at the 4? Sure. Are they willing to move one of their cornerstone players to accomodate a scrub like RoLo? I doubt it.
3.. – They’re running a lot more under Larry Drew – and they should. I think they would run more if they have Nash.
4. With Nash and Hill, they are definitely contenders. They actually would match up really well with the Celtics, Bulls and Knicks, thanks to their wing players and front line.
5. It makes me happy that you think the Suns will me a “middle of the road team” who are getting to the second round of the playoffs. So happy, I’m just going to agree with you
Rolo isn't exactly a scrub
He hasn’t played out so far this season, but he’s still not 100% healthy. With his recent play, it’s clear his playing legs are starting to come into shape. Also, of course no one from the Hawk’s organization has said they want to trade Smith and move Horford to the four, but it makes a lot of sense and I’m not the first one to float that idea out there.
I don’t think the Hawks would trade Smith for two guys nearing 40, but lets entertain the idea and say they will…It’s going to take at least two months to get them acclimated into the system. We’re about moving one huge piece of your team and trying to work in two more (3 if you include Frye) and learning how to work with a new primary ball handler.
Last year's Phoenix Suns team was like the show "Deadwood." A great thing that ended way too early.
I don't completely hate this
I mean, you’re def rebuilding here, but in this case, getting nothing is getting something, with all that cap space you should be able to fill in the holes with some pretty nice guys.
Particularly with a new CBA looming, you might be able to get a star caliber player for Vince’s corpse, and then extend him.
Trade Warrick!!!
I'm not even sure you want the pick
since it’ll be the bottom end of teh 1st round in a weak draft. In other words, you’re paying guaranteed money for a scrub.
Trade Warrick!!!
Your title contains an oxymoron.
A Rosterbation of Reason
There exists no such thing. Rosterbation is for the sole purpose of pleasing oneself. Good reasoning is an unnecessary factor when it comes to pleasing yourself.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
Thank you...
Rosterbation only fulfills one’s desire to be pleasured….ergo: It feels good so I do it….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
what stops us from going after j rich next year in free agency?
that would essentially make the Gortat deal a huge steal. Still would have to upgrade tho to be a contender
And the fact that we were willing to let him go in the trade because the team didn't feel like they were willing/able to re-sign him anyway.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
i thought
he publicly said he was looking forward to an extension
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