Phoenix Suns Still Lack Major Offseason Target: Go-To Scorer
by Alex Laugan on Dec 11, 2011 8:25 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintOne of the Phoenix Suns' biggest problems last year was scoring to close out a game. Sure, the Suns wanted more size and defense too. But winning teams have guys who can hit clutch shots in the closing minutes, be it a contested layup, a stagger-screened 15-footer or a spot-up 3-ball after PG penetration draws the defense into the paint.
Alvin Gentry had this to say when the Suns' cleaned out their lockers for a long summer (Paul Coro wrote this article on April 14, 2011):
The Suns' clear path for now is that they need to add a go-to scorer, more size and (to) improve defensively, in attention and scheme as well as personnel.
"We've got to be little better from the standpoint of being able to have a go-to guy where we don't count on Steve (Nash) to create every play at the end of the game and to make every shot in situations like that," coach Alvin Gentry said. "That's something that we have to look at."
The Suns appear to have checked off many other offseason goals:
- keep Steve Nash and Grant Hill, preferably without committment past this season
- add a new defensive scheme (Elston Turner)
- add guys who give better effort and can play better defense than their incumbents (Sebastian Telfair > Aaron Brooks, Shannon Brown > Vince Carter, on defense at least)
- get rid of Mikael Pietrus and Vince Carter's contracts (Carter is done, and Pietrus was ALMOST done but not yet)
- add size and defense on the front line (Markieff Morris, plus maybe a resurgent Robin Lopez?)
- preserve 2012 cap space
The Suns have already checked off those tasks (nominally, anyway) without sacrificing a dime of 2012 cap space.
But go-to scorer for the 2011-2012 season? So far, no good.
To be fair, finding a go-to scorer is not easy when you only have only $5 million to spend on pure free agents and want to limit any commitment to 1 year unless the player has huge long-term upside. A round-up of this offseason's best-scoring guards available in free agency:
- Jamal Crawford - being offered more than $8-9 million x multiple years by non-playoff teams
- Marcus Thornton - got $8+ mil/yr from Sacramento x 4 years
- Jason Richardson - got $6+ mil/yr from Orlando x 4 years at 31 years old
- Wilson Chandler - playing in China until March
- J.R. Smith - playing in China until March
- Arron Afflalo - RFA, but Denver HAS to match whatever might be offered given all of their other losses
- Nick Young - RFA, no mention in any rumors yet, which likely means Washington will match any offer
The Phoenix Suns DO still have Amare's remaining trade exception, which I believe is about $5.7 million. But the only way they'd use this money in the next week is to (a) add a one-year rental or (b) add a young, long-term guy comparable to Steph Curry, James Harden and Eric Gordon, who are all RFAs either next summer or the summer after that.
As it stands, next summer will offer some really good, young go-to scorers in Wilson Chandler, JR Smith, Russell Westbrook (RFA) and Eric Gordon (RFA).
The summer after that makes go-to scorers James Harden and Steph Curry, among others, available as RFAs.
As of next summer, the Suns will have at least $30 million in cap space to spend on any free agents - RFAs (restricted) or UFAs (unrestricted). The acquisition of a long-term go-to scorer may be better served to wait until then.
For now, don't expect miracles. Those of you begging for Michael Redd? While I hope you're wrong, I do see him fitting the Suns' 2011-2012 free agent profile - a one-year veteran-minimum contract.
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on a side note, please read that whole Coro article from April 14. The Suns have not deviated one iota from that plan in April, with the exception of this go-to scorer thingy.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
do we already have a go-to-shooter?
I seem to remember Channing Frye hitting about 35 game-winning threes in a row last year…….the guy was absolutely golden from beyond the arc.
In all seriousness, though, I think what we’re missing is someone who can create their own shot. Steve Nash is the only guy there right now, and that’s one of the reasons we originally brought Vince Carter into the fold. Would Michael Redd be any better?
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
exactly, the Suns need a shot-maker. I’m not a fan of Redd, either. But there’s no shot-makers available at the vet min price.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I'm honestly not sure if Redd can even drive and cut right now
But if he comes for the minimum, then I say that anything he gives us is a plus.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Forget end of game and everything else – close games are basically a crapshoot (as all the evidence shows).
What we were missing is a bench, or more specifically any quality play when Nash sat. I am not a fan of +/- at all (the data is just too dirty), but http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=1198 shows:
Nash in Suns were good +7 ppg; with him out there were horrible -15 ppg.
In other words, when Nash was playing, we had the third best differential in the league after Miami (8.3) and Chicago (8.0) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlSEoxg2JxHJdEdrZDFhR0pLU3lrdTNxVGNPMzUwMnc
And when Nash didn’t play, we were dead last – waaaaay worse than Cleveland.
We need a backup to Nash desperately, or at the very least a bench that has some swagger ala 2009-10. If we can sort that, we’ll be a playoof team for sure, as Nash played 62% of the Suns minutes last year, and +7 in those minutes should be enough to secure 8th spot.
by MMotherwell on Dec 11, 2011 8:35 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Hasn't that been the story every year??
We suck when Nash sits pretty much every nigh minus a few games here and there. What else is new??
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Not really no
In 2009-10 we had a great bench – remember the San Antonio playoff game? We used to have a seven man rotation that was great, and 8 with Kurt Thomas. We had solid numbers until pretty much last year.
And how bad was our bench play last year? So bad we had a -0.90 differential, despite being +7 in the 62% of minutes Nash played. Think about that – in 38% of minutes, we wiped out the advantage Nash gave us PLUS went into negative.
Every team, pretty much, is worse when their best player sits, but we were horrendous. The big story last year was how bad we were without Nash, which was pretty much all-time horrific, and matches well with what you’d see when you watched. Nash sits with a lead, comes back in early in deficit. It was a weird year.
If we can balance that out, and only suck slightly without Nash, we’ll be really good. Seriously, even if our bench had sucked, but we’d avoided being horrific, we’d have been a playoff team.
I don't think our FO would do this because it's more than one year on his contract, but they should anyway.
Pietrus, Dowdell and a 2nd rounder for Ridnour. They got Barea now and he wants to start. They also got Rubio and he needs to develop. I’m not sure if they’d want to do this because Peaches isn’t healthy. If that’s the case, I understand. If Pietrus was healthy, I think they would though.
Don't trade Dudley!
You said the words themselves
We need a guy who can create their own offense/shot. We have guys who can hit the open shots that Steve creates but we need someone to go to when we start bleeding.
what's the
worst case and best case as far as production goes for Markieff Morris this year?
I hate "Red Sox Nation"
probably need to ask this question again in 2 weeks. After a couple preseason games.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Worst case PRODUCTION depends on ho often he is played, more than his ability. I think we can hope for at least an average NBA PF rebounder – which is great for us – and some sketchy play elsewhere. Specifically, missed assignments on defence, due to no training camp, and a spotty offensive game.
The high-side is Kurt Thomas circa 2006 – a solid defender who rebounds above average and can hit a jumper from the elbow.
Over/under I’d say is 20 minutes, 8ppg, 5.5rpg.
I'll take the under.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:25 AM MST up reply actions
Done
I’m leaning towards over, and think after the all-star break he’ll average 10 and 8 in 28.
Why'd we fire Terry Porter...
And then build his dream team?
I'm Michael Beasley's imaginary friend.
by suns68 on Dec 11, 2011 9:48 AM MST via mobile reply actions
To spite him.
The hire/fire thing was only the first part of the plan to crush his soul.
Sarver has a vendetta against Porter.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
Jim thinks everyone has an agenda.
He lives in a dark, dark world.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I was told so
by hatred’s ugly brother.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't say that...
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
by jc79 on Dec 13, 2011 9:29 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
We have a player who can create his shot
but he is not a player who make his shots. J- Chill is that type of guy…maybe id he comes back and do better, we’ll be fine.
Another options? what d’ u say about Willie Green?
"Steve Nash is more valuable for the Suns than Kobe for the Lakers" - Jared Dudley
I saw his name on the list and thought about it for a second.
He basically put up 9 points in 22 minutes on 45% shooting each of the last 2 years. He would have been worth a look as a bench scorer if we hadn’t signed Brown.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Lamar and Khloe would have been nice. Lamar was just dealt to the Mavericks for a top 20 protected pick and a bag of chips. Couldn’t we have offered more? WTH are the Lakers thinking? Dismantling their team for nothing?!
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 11, 2011 10:16 AM MST reply actions
Yep, I had to read the article twice that stated they traded Odom for a protected pick
They lost a valuable team member and a trade asset.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
They must think it helps them get Howard and maybe clear room for next year’s FAs. Ugh, it makes me sick. They must know what they are doing.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 11, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
Makes you wonder
It’s almost like after the whole Paul trade fell through he basically told the FO to get him the hell out of there, or maybe from the start he already had expressed he was done playing there.
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
I saw a rumor saying that he wanted out
I know for a fact he felt disrespected by the organization and that couldn’t have gone away so easily.
Lamar has always had that Shawn Marion complex...
It’s just in LA his feelings were kinda hidden behind Lord Kobe, Zenmaster Phil and Wacko to the World Artest…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Khloe Kardashian would have been a great PF
She averages double double…from In and Out.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
by modernage13 on Dec 11, 2011 11:52 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
SHe is built like your prototypical PF..
She’s a beast….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I wonder if the Suns picked up the phone?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
I don’t understand this response. The Suns did not have the capacity to take on Odom, no matter what.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
We could have offerred them Pietrus expiring
plus Siler, Dowdell and Gani’s un-guaranteed contracts.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Can’t we offer part of the TE and something like the rights to Aaron Brooks (although they really like Greivis there, they’d probably try to get RoLo) for Mayo?
Those guys have to resign Gasol Jr, have ZBo and Rudy Gay on big, long-term contracts, Conley getting some good money and have some good options at the 2 in Tony Allen, Xavier Henry and Sam Young.
He could be cheap and is a RFA at the end of the year, so he is probably one of the guys we will look at next summer. So why not try and bring him right now and give him a test drive?
by pereplyotkin on Dec 11, 2011 10:25 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Love it, perep. We should absolutely be offering it.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 11, 2011 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
Why not trade Rolo and keep Brooks?
Rolo and Gort don’t seem to get along very well, so I suspect it’s going to be a one or the other situation eventually anyway.
Brooks is a scorer and we’ll need that. And I don’t see us making a long-term commitment to Telfair.
I'm Michael Beasley's imaginary friend.
by suns68 on Dec 11, 2011 12:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Hardly seeing ourselves making a commitment with either (Telfair or Brooks)
And I think RoLo is a much better trade asset in the long run. I would pull the plug on the trade if it was RoLo instead of Brooks, but I would still prefer to trade Aaron
by pereplyotkin on Dec 11, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
Damn. They are close to trading Mayo to the Pacers again. Pacers got West too. I like what they are doing. Becoming more relevant, and they were already a low end playoff team in the East by default.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 11, 2011 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
They were close to beating Chicago too
Chicago just got away in the 4th quarter
Twitter: @FredLegittt
cannot combine a TPE with anything but a draft pick and/or cash. No players. So, sorry that doesn’t work. Also, cannot trade rights to Brooks, as an unsigned veteran.
I do hope the Suns acquire a SG like that, though. They could bring in Mayo with the TPE alone.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I don't mind Mayo for the same reason
I don’t mind Beasley. Both are on expiring deals, so if it doesn’t work out it’s easy for the Suns to cut their losses.
Both have character issues, both have upside. The Suns have too many super awesome nice guys bereft of talent.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
How about going after nice guys with talent...?
Why don’t the SUns target players like AI2 instead of Michael Pietrus?
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
We didn't target Pietrus
We got him WITH Gortat. Do you regret getting Gortat?
Honestly...
I’d rather they just sit on the money, see how the season progresses, if they can use Amare’s exemption and their cap space to add a piece that is an expiring contract at the deadline to push them into the playoffs then go for it. If not, I’d rather they just play it out and maybe luck into a good draft pick.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I agree Alex.
Sarver has boxed this team in a corner. Suns need to get under the cap, and hopefully get a valuable player in the first round next year. This year is going to suck. Take one on the chin and hope for 2012-13
I don't think it will suck
It will just be highly mediocre
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Dec 11, 2011 11:23 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Ha!
I think thats the most optimistic post I have ever seen you post!
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
In the BSOTS guidelines...
It specifically says…“Don’t feed the trolls…”
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
by Daryl Ray on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Meh
I don’t consider Scott a troll. I picture him being an old man on his porch, in a rocking chair, with 2 barrels full of lead on his lap, yelling at kids to get the fuck of his lawn.
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
by AcucracK on Dec 11, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Probably would crack on them about their clothes and haircuts...
After he scared the shit out of them…
That’s the Scott we know and love…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I don't think the team is boxed in a corner.
They will have a ton of flexibility moving forward. Maybe too much.
It could get to the point next summer that they have too much money to spend and no good options to spend it on.
Boxed in a corner is when a teams sucks AND they have no flexibility. I don’t really see the Suns as a team stuck between a sword and a wall.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
I had a dream last night
That I was reading free agent/trade rumors and read one that the Suns’ roster was not final for the season yet….it probably meant they finally got rid of Pietrus.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
Looks like our fate lies in the athletic hands of Jared Dudley.
Dudley for 2012 MVP!
Don't trade Dudley!
Dudley may be the Suns player
who is best at creating his own offense. He started to show this at the end of last year.
Ruminate on that for a second and see what conclusions you draw…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:37 AM MST up reply actions
That Nash is Awesome?
Because he is :)
We still lack a bench scorer, we really do, but if they can play solid D, rebound and run the break, we might have the classic defensive, turn over driven bench. Frye/Lopez, Morris, JChill, Brown And Telfair seems like a bench that can slow others down and run.
A man can hope anyway!
…
Holy crap, you’re right. We’re screwed.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Not really a go to scorer
But what about Chauncey Billups to back up Nash? He’s quoted as saying
I’ve made a lot of money, and I’ve saved most of it. I don’t need the money now. I want to be able to play for something, a championship…
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Oh I'm Sorry
Are we just playing this season for shits and giggles?
Ha
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Billups would be a solution
but he wants to play out the last years of his career with a contender.
we would have to convince him that after this season we will get a top 5 player in 2012 FA market.
I don’t think he would mind backing up Nash – actually in a season like this I see them splitting floor time 60/40. he is probably my 2nd fav over 30 PG in the league…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 12, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
He don’t wanna be no backup either. Forget that petulant little crybaby.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 11, 2011 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
You know we could always amnesty Childress, then offer Gortat, Brown, Pietrus, the rights to Brooks and our next 2 first round picks for Dwight Howard while taking on Hedo’s contract (LOL). Personally, I think that’s better than what the Nets are offering. I’d rather have Gortat over Brooks. I mean seriously, why can’t the Lopez brothers rebound?
Who am I kidding, he’ll probably end up with the Lakers. Gasol, Bynum and taking on Hedo’s contract is a good deal. Nah, If I were Orlando I would actually prefer Gortat and the picks over those guys. I mean Gasol is already 31. He should be going to a contender, not a guy I want to rebound. Bynum? Same, too injury prone. Still, it’d be weird and Ironic if Gortat is the main piece in a deal for Dwight Howard, lol.
Seriously guys, wouldn’t that just be the most Ironic thing?
Don't trade Dudley!
Sorry Beav
I think that we would have to give up Dudley instead of Brown. But I don’t see why we would, Dwight would just leave after this year when he’s a free agent. Only do it if a signs long term, and I would trade Gortat for Dwight.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Well, even without Dudz, I think it's a better offer than what the Nets put out there.
But that all depends on whether they own both those first round picks? Because where ever Dwight goes, that team will become much, much better. If they got a first round pick from another crappy team, then yeah, we can’t beat that unless we include both Frye and Dudley.
Don't trade Dudley!
I don't think so
Because Orlando already knows all about Gortat who is the main piece of that deal. They know his potential and everything. They traded him plus 2 starters for 3 guys. Now I don’t think that they are going to take Gortat for their best player, perhaps the 2nd best in the league.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
It isn't Gortat straight up
And they couldn’t afford to pay Gortat that much to be a backup for Howard (who plays lots of minutes). I really don’t think they have issues with Gortat as a player…..
The Hammer would kill himself if were to be backup to Howie once again...
Also – I don’t really see championship potential in D-12.
He is a great player, but he melts under pressure and unlike shaq still can’t develop decent post game.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 12, 2011 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
I am aware
I was speaking of players swapping places in a trade scenario. I don’t agree that Dwight isn’t championship quality. He just needs to find the right group around him because he is a force unlike any center in the league currently.
See that's the problem
Having the best player in the game doesn’t mean winning championships.
He instantly becomes the focal point of any offence he plays for. Thus – forces other teams to conjest the paint leaving open 3’s. And it turns out, that even with great 3 point shooters (orlando 2010) it isn’t recipe for winning it all.
I would say he is very similar to Shaq only much less talented offensively. He also is not much of a passer thus making it difficult to encorporate him in any more coplex plays.
So far – we know one thing about Howard – he transforms the team he plays for into an inside – outside, post-up iso grind. And turns out the further in the playoffs you go, the harder it is to succeed with simple strategy.
Sure, if by surrounding him with the right group you mean 2 Top 10 all nba players than indeed the chances are pretty good they will win.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 11:23 AM MST up reply actions
He is still so young though
I don’t believe he will ONLY be successful having a team with 3 point shooters surrounding Dwight. There has to be another system he would fit into and with an improved jump shot it is possible. Not saying he can become a great shooter but perhaps he can improve on his shooting to where teams have to respect it. I am pretty sure he will always suck at free throws though!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
He showed improvement in both his post game and his face-up jumper last year. I think a team with the right players and chemistry could diversify the offense a little but – get him to run the floor, put him in some P&Rs, post him up, and surround him with guys that aren’t just long-range spot-up shooters, but someone who can put it on the floor and hit from closer in as well. I think A combination like Dwight and David West might be able to work as well. West isn’t the stretch 4 Dwight normally plays with, but he’s on of the best mid-range big guys in the league and maybe they could give each other enough room to operate.
I agree with Piotr that is indeed what their offense has been, but I do see potential for something more with Dwight.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
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Hope he gets traded
I really would like to see him flourish in a different system
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 6:47 PM MST up reply actions
Yep, only if it's long-term
Sarver would have to convince Dwight that he’ll build a contender around him.
You know, if I were a super rich, awesome and spectacular, amazingly, ridiculously, good player, I’d sign with a team that’s never won a title, so I could get them one. I think that’d be more glorious then taking the Lakers to the Finals when it’s already been done a million times before. I would want to do something that had never been done before.
Don't trade Dudley!
Nice try Beavis.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
Let's hope it's a good "different" and not worse.
@paulcoro "Gentry said Lopez has looked “almost completely different than he was last year.” Suns still had only 9 this morning but all can go tonight."
Twitter: @FredLegittt
Maybe he weighs 300 lbs now.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
he does not
if anything, I thought he might look a bit slimmer but it’s hard to say…I didn’t get to see him on the court very long last night but what stood out was his happiness. He looked like was having fun and not so angry, mad or…whatever.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Dec 11, 2011 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Glass doors everywhere breathe a sigh of relief.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Dec 11, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Maybe he went to counseling
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Big Man camp...?
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Seemed like a lot lost weight in the offseason
Kendrick Perkins lost like 32 pounds…but then I heard Amare grew and also gained like 25 pounds. By the way, I saw a pic of you last night during the interviews and you looked bored haha.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
I think
I was actually looking up at the balcony where Lance Blanks was watching (and avoiding the media)
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Dec 11, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
a lot of these weights changes are not good things. Amare’s is probably water/weightlifting weight that will drop off over the course of the season. Perkins probably lost too much.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Amare grew a 1/2" by improving his posture.
In a related story, Rolo went through the same regimen of exercises to rectify his slouch and it turns out he’s really 9 feet tall.
That’s why he looked different.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
It's just the hair JIm...
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
by Daryl Ray on Dec 12, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
don't we want an angry robin, though?
wasn’t the angry, door-shattering robin the one who had a breakout year in 2009-2010?
Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
~Jack Burton, "Big Trouble in Little China"
by u_must_chill on Dec 11, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps,
but the moody Frolo was the one that we got last year.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Well thats good to hear
Let’s see how that actually translates to a real game this season though!
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
A lot of dream shakes and pump fakes!
Nahhh he’s too slow I’ll leave those for Gortat
Twitter: @FredLegittt
AHAHAHA
If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 12, 2011 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
me too!
Unfortunately, I believe Piotr is in Poland so it will be difficult to verify
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Before and after pictures?
Airwave, I suggest making that your sig.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Aaaaaand it lives!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I like it.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
for future reference:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216176_506677078281_37004146_30086182_5995_n.jpg
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Say goodbye to those locks!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
What about Rip Hamilton?
I heard a couple days ago that he was bought out by Detroit. Obviously we can do better, but just putting this option on the table
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
Also he is a Reggie Miller clone
He does the screen-running routine that doesn’t really work well with Nash.
And without screens he can’t create his own shot.
Not our type of guy…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 12, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Yep.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Btw this is very interesting...
http://arizona.sbnation.com/phoenix-suns/2011/12/11/2628258/robert-sarvers-phoenix-suns
Could Sarver actually know what he’s doing? :O
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
No
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
by Suns R Us on Dec 11, 2011 1:49 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Thanks for confirming what we all know...
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Well I knew that WE knew what was going to go down...
I just found it interesting that Sarver knows, as well. I just kind of assumed he was making random decisions with flawed or no reasoning behind them, that just happened to clear cap space for 2012 AND help us compete in the present.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Dec 11, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
What if...
All these one year deals are packaged together?
Hill + Pietrus + Brown = between 12.3 → 19.5 in salaries back (and if they agree to cut Hill – we can resign him and he gets a few extra bucks). Throw in Telfair, Lopez $2 million, and the $1,979,160 Morris due and we could get a player like a Josh Smith whilst providing solid cap relief this year or next. And we have picks in the next few years.
Alternately, we could be like Houston and be the third player in a trade, to help facilitate it and land a slight upgrade.
Certainly, we are poised to make a move with the pieces we have. The question is what moves will be available.
With LA giving away Odom for nothing...
Why didn’t Blabanks make a play for him..??? He would have fit in real nice at the PF position for us…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Odom requested the trade. I would assume he had some say in it. Also the Lakers most likely didn’t want to give him to a division rival, and of all teams, the Suns.
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Standing on principle sucks...
So the Lakers would rather give him to the team that dusted them in the playoffs last year…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Suns didn’t have that big a trade exception. Looks like the Lakers wanted to clear room.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I hope the Suns at lesat made the phone call.
Odom is basically playing on an expiring deal because he has a cap friendly buy out.
I could have lived with Odom next to Gortat for a year.
I assume the conversation took place.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:45 AM MST up reply actions
see my above comment. The CBA did not allow the Suns to entertain thoughts of Odom. At all.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
How would they know that the Lakers would only accept a trade exception
if they never talked to them?
Do you mean that the Lakers made it clear they were only interested in shedding salary and didn’t want contracts back in exchange? Did they make that public knowledge when they put him out for trade? How would the Suns have known this if they didn’t ask? If Odom was put on the trade block and I was in the Suns hierarchy I would at least want to know what they were looking for in return.
Couldn’t Amare’s trade exception have been used to bridge part of this? Questions on this – under the new rules can a trade exception be used to make up part of the salary in a trade and a salary the remainder? For instance could the Suns offer a $5.7 million dollar exception and a $3.2 million dollar contract and bring back a $8.9 million dollar contract? For that matter, if the Suns are under the tax, does the 150% in salary they can bring back apply to a trade exception? Can they get a $8.5 million dollar contract back with their trade exception (assuming they stay under the tax threshold)?
Couldn’t a third team have been brought into the mix to make things work if the Suns were really interested?
I’m not sure what you mean by they couldn’t entertain thoughts at all….
The Mavericks just used a trade exception to get a power forward who is better than any power forward on Phoenix’s roster – you don’t think it would have been prudent for the Suns to at least take a passing interest in this situation (like a phone call or a discussion amongst the esteemed members of the pantheon down at hq) since it directly affects two teams ahead of them in the standings as well as two of their biggest rivals?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions
To answer a couple of your questions:
Amare’s TPE wouldn’t have helped. The player coming in must fully fit within the available trade exception. They cannot be combined with any other exception, or player.
The 150% applies only to simultaneous trades. Anything involving a TPE falls under the non-simultaneous trade rules, and in those cases the number is 100%, not 125 or 150.
In order for the Suns to land Odom, they must have given up around 9 million dollars in salary.
To be fair to the Sun’s expectations, assuming the Lakers didn’t call around the league and make it clear that Odom was on the block, as far as anyone knew the Lakers were only interested in trading Odom and Gasol in order to land Paul. We could extrapolate an interest in any other superstar from that. However, anything more than that is a stretch. I certainly wouldn’t have guessed that the Lakers would be interested in moving Gasol for, say, Peitrus and Warrick. They had made no indication of anything like that up until the Odom/Mavs trade was announced.
I have to imagine that all trade offers between teams are not public knowledge to all teams not involved, and therefore the Sun’s FO fairly realized the Lakers willingness to move Odom right about the same time everyone else did.
Honestly, I don’t even think the Mavs saw this coming until they got the phone call. “Mark, are you interested in trading for Odom?”
“Well yeah Jerry, I like Odom, but sorry, I’m not giving you anything for him.”
“Deal! Take it or leave it!”
“What? Uh….take it?”
Really this craziness is on the Lakers. I’m sure a dozen teams, had they known they could take Odom for nothing, would have been clamoring to offer slightly more than nothing to take a shot at him. I have to imagine that they Lakers made the call, and it was signed before anyone knew anything about it.
borderline adequate
Heh, possibly.
A better example would be that any team around could have offered to absorb the contract, giving LA what it apparently so desperately wanted, and offered up to 3m in cash and/or a slightly better draft pick than the one they got from Dallas. I think the reason this trade went down the way it did is because noone but the Lakers and the Mavs were aware it was a possibility.
But why did the Lakers pull the trigger without shopping? I think SMH is appropriate here.
borderline adequate
How do you know they didn't shop?
They got rid of salary and got a pick. If the goal was to get rid of salary, can you find a better trade?
Can’t believe that there’s not another team out there that would have offered better. Absorb Odom’s contract and a top 20 protected 1st round draft pick of the most recent NBA champions? Anyone with a 9mil tpe or 9mil in cap space could have beat that without even trying. Even if the deal were 100% identical, just not being a conference rival would have helped push them ahead of the Mavs.
borderline adequate
I think you guys are over-complicating things. Clearly, the Lakers could have gotten more than a pack of gum and a 9-mill exception for Odom.
If you make the assumption that Kupchak knows this (which I think is safe to do), then there is only one possible conclusion – Kupchak ONLY wanted to trade Odom into free cap space or a TPE in which he clears the full 9 million from his own cap, which translates to 18 mil in real dollars.
The Suns could not accomodate this demand. Apparently, only Dallas could and would.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
So from whom?
http://shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/tradeexceptions.jsp – what would they have offerred, and would Odom have gone to them?
Odom doesn't really have a choice.
He has two years left on his contract with a team buyout after this year as far as I know.
It would seem like (from the Lakers perspective) they would have been better off shipping him to Cleveland, Denver, Toronto, or somewhere else for absolutely nothing (maybe even throw in a couple picks like the Suns did to extricate themselves from KT’s onerous contract) rather than send him to Dallas where he provides immediate help to a primary competitor.
This seems to derogate from typical Lakers (Buss) behavior. Like Alex suggests, I would assume they have some furtive agenda, because shipping a talented player to a rival for tax relief seems like a quizzical choice.
Did they really have to pull the trigger so quick? How would they know that there was no better offer available when they only spent 5 minutes looking?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 13, 2011 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe none of those teams wanted him?
And I am not sure those are all correct – as in I am not sure Toronto has the exception (quick search found that page).
The only team could take him would have been Denver – not sure they really wanted him – ditto cleveland.
Did they really have to pull the trigger so quick? How would they know that there was no better offer available when they only spent 5 minutes looking?
How do you know? If they wanted cap relief, 4 teams had the space. Maybe they offerred him to all 4 teams?
Odom's numbers get inflated
Helps to be a sixth man and also to have a bigger man on the floor with you at most times. That all being said, having Gortat around probably would have made him a very effective player for the Suns and at $9M a year not a bad value either.
I seriously doubt the Lakers care about the Suns being in division if the alternative is to give him to one of the teams you figure you have to beat out to win the West. That really makes no sense, as much as we hate the Lakers, the Suns aren’t even on their radar right now.
by Fakers Stink on Dec 11, 2011 9:57 PM MST up reply actions
I think Lamar would have flurished in our system..
Basically a bigger, stronger, more consistent Boris Diaw…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Jason Richardson – got $6+ mil/yr from Orlando x 4 years at 31 years old
So hill is earning more than Jrich?
You can follow me on twitter.
sports_dude33
thanks
right, but Hill’s is only 1 year. JRich is getting paid for 4 more years. Bad contract.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Maybe...What can you really expect for 6 million a year,,,
Contract should have only been for three years If JRich played as well as he did for us for just a couple of seasons, They really couldn’t have done much better than what’s out there…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Players are going to start becoming available on 1-year deals this week
which fits the Suns’ requirements. Teams will start clamping down on long-term money. I wonder if the Suns are looking to add another SG who can really score the ball – which the Suns still need.
OJ Mayo is in the final year of his rookie contract, and is being shopped again by Memphis. He’d be a nice scoring option, is young, and could be non-tendered next year if he’s a flop.
Reggie Williams from GS just got non-tendered and is now a UFA. He’s a shooter/scorer who isn’t much of an athlete but really knows how to score in short minutes.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
He'd be a solid signing
For the right price…
Memphis doesn't have any bad contracts left on their books
so we can’t offer them cap relief.
Point being… we would have to include a draft pick in order to pursue Mayo. Either that or offer them Gortat.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
They’re not bringing back Williams? Hmm…
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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Gilbert Arenas
I think we should get Gilbert Arenas!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe for a reasonable contract, otherwise he’s not worth it.
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
gilbert is not as explosive as he used to be.
by GDD on Dec 11, 2011 5:35 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
But he's still good for 15-18 ppg
or more if given the chance.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Orlando gave him LOTS of chance that year. Chance+. They hated having him.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
21 MPG isn't a lot of chance
but I didn’t watch the Magic so I don’t know. Arenas also flourished as a first option, not a 3rd wheel.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
totally
also…they were paying him a lot whole…so of course the expectation was high, too high perhaps.
i think arenas would be great in phoenix…
No chance
He can’t play in a system. More or less he is an iso-man.
Only last year he shot less than 40%.
IMO – that would destroy any chemistry on the suns.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 12, 2011 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
But we need an iso man
maybe not one who shoots 39%, though
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
haha i would love this!
Gil was one of my favorite guys a few years ago!
Redd or Mayo
Redd if we are looking for a stop gap. Mayo if we are looking to sign and trade for the future. The kid has real talent. He always struck me as a smoother version of james harden. Not to say harden isnt smooth, but he seems to play more like the wily old guy at the gym than a 24 year old cat.
by GDD on Dec 11, 2011 5:29 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Jared Dudley might be a suprise
Im predicting 15-18ppg and 7reb
it kills me when ppl say that if Dudley is leading you team in scoring then your not that good. if thats the case then K. love and B. Griffin suck. but anways Dudz brings consistent scoring plus hes been working on his dribble game all off season at Impact, turning more into a sg than a SF. i like his D that hell bring to the starting line up. we avg. 105 ppg last year as a team. but 107 ppg allowed so the issue isnt getting more scoring(execpt in end of game situations) its up our D which personal and scheme wise we have. weve also fixed our biggest issue last year which was our bench.
OUR BENCH
Telfair-underated and lost in Minnys triangle
Brown- freak athlete who was productive despite being in a system(triangle) opposite his skills
J. Chill- Maybe the best mix of youth, experience, D, attitude, and slashing on our team. just couldnt shoot the way a PHO wing should
Morris/Hak- Rookie who was best known in the draft for being NBA ready with rebounding and D that will translate and a guy with much to prove.He doesnt wanna be the crappy brother. Hak lacks refined scoring skills and isnt a starter but produces based off his athleticism alone
ROLO – A man who is on the fringe of a make or break opinion. with an lockout off season to get healthy, I have high hopes for rolo and seemed way better in interviews in recent days. If Morris or Hak dont work out im hoping to seem him and Gortat on the floor 2gether. either way in this short season its crucial to be deep and if Rolo can be solid he could be getting 14-18 minutes per game upping his stock help him and phoenix in the future.
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
The best playmaker on that bench
is Childress.
I would love to see us send Chilly down to the block to work some back to the basket magic. He looked really good in that area when he got floor time.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
idk if anybody cares but this guy has workout updates
by REneeR on Dec 11, 2011 7:48 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Related to nothing
The Cardinals are really exceeding my expectations right now.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
The defense has made significant improvement.
It’s too bad that they are all but mathematically eliminated from a playoff spot.
Auspicious adumbrations for next season, but a 15th-20th pick in the upcoming draft.
The purgatory of the mediocre.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
They are very close to being a force in the NFL
You can always find good value in the first round, no matter where you are picking.
To be perfectly honest.....
And obviously I’m not much of an optimist – but they are far from all but mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. The scenarios aren’t really that far fetched. Sure they aren’t likely or anything but if they can win their remaining 3 very winnable games (the Bengals seem to be in free-fall mode) I think the rest will take care of itself.
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Dec 12, 2011 3:46 PM MST up reply actions
The Cards need teams like....
….the Lions, Bears, and Cowboys to lose for them to get in, I like those chances. I think they win out regardless and have some momementum to build off going into next year. And if they get in, who knows. I like their chances at winning a playoff game over the Niners. Those guys are one and done.
That loss to the Giants is really stinging right now.
by Chris_Coffel on Dec 12, 2011 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
I spent an embarrassing amount of time researching the scenarios
But it’s not just that Lions loss….it’s the Redskins loss and the Ravens loss, and the road Seattle loss. Yuck.
And that doesn’t even take into account getting blown out by the 2-10 Vikings.
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Dec 12, 2011 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
The Bears are imploding
and the Cowgirls are always likely candidates for a meltdown. The Giants were in a major skid until last week as well.
But I don’t see the Falcons losing out.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Wooo Cardinals shoutout!
Lovin that defense! Once they get stable QB play they will be very dangerous.
I still like Kolb if he could just stay healthy.
by Chris_Coffel on Dec 12, 2011 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
Me likey.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
i'm over tiny guards that get worked on defense...
we need to get rid of the “7 SOL” mentality, we need to become tough! the gimmick has run its course
I don't get the OJ Mayo love
Never been an effective scorer and his consistently mediocre PER shows it. Its really not that hard to find someone who only shoots the basketball and does little else to contribute.
Our team sorely lacks a scorer
Mayo is a scorer.
Also, his contract ends after this year, but he could be given a QO to make him an RFA instead of an UFA. So that situation is flexible.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
I don't agree
If you aren’t an effective shooter then your ability to be a “scorer” just doesn’t benefit your team. Shannon Brown could probably have scored at about Mayo’s rate in Memphis, but the Lakers had some guy named Kobe who seemed to want to take all the shots. When the Grizzlies realized Z-Bo and Gasol, among others, could be more effective shooting than having Mayo throw up missed jumpers they lost interest in him for good reason.
This whole scoring thing is kind of silly anyways. We got a guy named Nash who if someone has to take shots seems to put a lot of them in. And when he doesn’t shoot he seems to find someone else in a better spot to shoot. Having a guy who can supposedly create his own shot and then it ends up being a contested 20 footer isn’t doing his team a favor and that seems to be what Mayo does way too often.
by Fakers Stink on Dec 11, 2011 10:21 PM MST up reply actions
ok he was horrible last season
but check out his first two seasons, they were pretty good: 18ppg 45% FG 38% 3PT
we’ll see if he can bounce back this season.
Mayo was an effective defender in college. He has all the tools to do it in the NBA. ALSO
The coincidence of him being suspended for PEs is way too awesome considering he has probably gone by the nickname “Juice” his whole life.
Micheal Redd fits the bill for this season.
But if we don’t make a run at him it won’t make one iota. Next year will be our time to rise.
Hold tight
and wait for JR Smith. If we wait and evaluate, we may not need to spend or trade anything unless something great falls in our lap.
"He's very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Dec 11, 2011 11:47 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
ugh, on JR Smith.
Hope you’re not talking about this year. Yes, Smith and Wilson Chandler will suddenly be available in March as free agents. However, the Suns already spent their MLE money. All they have left is bi-annual exception (2 × 2).
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I'm sure there will be someone with more to offer Chandler.
I remember reading that he wouldn’t be opposed to going back to the Knicks. If he was going to sign a deal to play out the year and hit free agency in the summer, I would assume it would be for a team like that ahead of Phoenix.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
there is NO way that I would want JR Smith to show up in March,
screw up whatever team chemistry we’ve been able to achieve, and start chucking up off-balance, contested 25-footers. no thanks.
Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
~Jack Burton, "Big Trouble in Little China"
by u_must_chill on Dec 12, 2011 7:21 AM MST up reply actions
Phoenix is still trying to get rid of Pietrus.
screw up whatever team chemistry we’ve been able to achieve, and start chucking up off-balance, contested 25-footers. no thanks.
No need to put a rush on finding his replacement.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 12, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
How many of you like Rudy Fernandez?
per twitterverse, Rudy is being shopped into cap space or a trade exception for nothing in return. He is only owed 1 more year before his QO is due, so it fits the 1-season-only mantra.
Plus: can hit shots
Minus: this would be his second trade in quick order. No defense.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
also, Ronnie Brewer is available too, but his contract is 2 years so Suns won’t want that at all. Plus I’m not sure he’s a real NBA player.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I like Rudy, I was really happy for a moment when we drafted him, but acquiring him now would give us 5 players for 2 positions.
(I think COREY Brewer is the one you meant to write)
by troglodytes on Dec 12, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
I actually really love Rudy's game.
The guy is scrappy on D, an effective shooter and has good size at the SG spot. He can also get up and down the court and has rockets in his shoes; he has had some pretty crazy dunks.
Brewer strikes me as very, very similar to Childress. I’d be interested in Rudy because we need someone to hit 3s. But he wouldn’t be someone who could create his own, so meh.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
I seem to remember him getting a lot of opportunities to create his own shot
when Portland was in the playoffs. Maybe i am confused.
I think Brewer would have been fantstic on this team..
His defense and energy creates a lot of opportunities…Definitely an upgrade from peaches…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I absolutely love Rudy.
I remember being so excited when we drafted him and then so bummed when I realized it was for Portland. He’s just an incredibly fun player to watch.
by Chris_Coffel on Dec 12, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Rudy was awesome
But then he turned into a wimp.
Still…one year deal? I’m more than down.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
My thoughts pretty much.
I have a POR fan friend who is sick of him, but perhaps a change of scenery would do him some good.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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From Channing Frye
“Guys training camp has been solid. lots of new faces to get used to the new system. But we are def alot faster and more athletic this year. So far Robin lopez has been the gem of camp hes back to where we need him to be strength speed and health wise. More updates as stuff comes up. What do yall think about all the trades n movement across the NBA?”
You know what this means…Lopez trade value will increase! Let’s hope him and Gortat are both monsters this year.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
by modernage13 on Dec 12, 2011 8:52 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
What if
Lopez really is back to incredible form and playing well? Any chance we play him alongside Gortat? Not many teams in the western conference could match up with that (Lakers if they hang on to Gasol and Bynum), then Frye could come in and thrive with the second unit like he has in the past.
Thankful everyday that Grants, New Mexico gets Fox Sports Arizona
We'd have to against Lakers no?
Would just make sense
Like Gortat playing PF and Lopez center?
Twitter: @FredLegittt
by modernage13 on Dec 12, 2011 11:11 PM MST up reply actions
With both Lopez and Gortat and their defenders all <15 feet from the basket, Nash wouldn’t have much space to maneuver in the paint. Would make more sense to have Frye as the PF with one of them, as he can reliably space the floor. Morris too, assuming his three point ability holds up at the NBA level.
borderline adequate
I always hear that but I don't get it
You can run the PnR without 3 guys at the three point line. One of the two will be the dive man, the other can be on the weakside, two 3 point shooters. Nash can make that work, and even if he can’t quite as effectively (the difference won’t be dramatic), if Lopez and Gortat can dominate their opponents, the net effect may still be positive.
by MMotherwell on Dec 13, 2011 5:52 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well the failure side of the PnR is the drive and dish. If Nash can’t hit the roll man and is committed to running into the paint, having 4 giants taking up space both hurts his ability to move through the paint and not lose his dribble, and makes it harder to dish out for a shot.
Additionally, assuming on of those guys is the PnR target, after losing their defender they will still have to deal with their teammates defender if he’s already in range to move over and stop the roll man’ drive.
borderline adequate
I don't see it
How is it different to Hak-Gortat?
Offence is not the issue with this team – truly it isn’t. With Nash in last year we were the best in the league – with 1.15 points per possession – http://www.82games.com/1011/1011PHO1.HTM
D is the problem, and the biggest issue of Lopez and Gortat together is if they can cover defensively. Bynum-Gasol vs Lopez-Gortat seems like less of loss than either individually, and as I said, our O is just fine.
The League average is 1.07, and the only player under that was Pietrus – at 1.05 ppp conceded. If Morris and Brown can improve the D slightly – by god forbid being average – we should be better, and in a good spot, because as long as we have Nash, we’ll score points.
BTW - here are Borwn's Numbers
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910LAL1.HTM – 1.06 and 1.05.
Not claiming offense is bad on this team. Claiming it will be worse with four bigs clogging the paint. Hak is smaller and faster than Lopez. He can wait at the wing for a cut. Robin at the three point line is just silly.
borderline adequate
Still not the point
Worse is comparative. From 1.15 to 1.13 points per possession is to go from best in the league to best in the league, and that is un-Nashlike to be so low.
If the D improves from 6th worst in the league to average, net gain. IMHO there is far too much emphasis on offence with the Suns – FAR too much.
Situational offense is the main offender
relevant to the offense as a whole; as in scoring in the last 5 minutes of the fourth quarter.
That is what a true scorer on the team might help. There is no prototypical create-his-own shot, average 20+ a game, volume scorer on the team.
Nash and defense seem to be a little like oil and water… When the Suns tried to go the defensive route it was a spectacular failure.
It would obviously be nice to see more commitment to that end of the floor. More effort and intensity. If the Suns are planning on going 10 deep again, there’s no reason they can’t have players out there on shorter shifts giving maximum effort on D.
Warrick’s a sieve, Childress’s D last year was underwhelming, Nash is Nash, the presence of Gortat and Rolo isn’t keeping players up at night, the new guards and Morris only have a handful of practices to learn the intricacies of the system, and the best defenders on the team lack speed… so it’s kind of an uphill battle.
That being delineated, middle of the pack is a good goal and probably necessary to have a record north of .500.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
We were 25th in defence, SIXTH LAST. We were 9th on offence. If anyone thinks the offence is hwere the marginal value is, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
How many times have we had this argument?
In the past we’ve shown the ability to win games on offense. Our defense was not good, but our offense was so good that teams couldn’t stop us when they needed to. We had guys that could get a bucket at the end of the game. Now, our offense is not as potent and we don’t have that guy who can get a shot off when we need it late in games. I agree the defense needs to be better, but if our offense is more reliable the defense doesn’t have to be quite as good as otherwise.
Also, we were all-time bad on defense early in the season, so to climb from that to 25 means we had to start doing some good things on that end.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Yeah, the offense when Nash went out
It was god-awful. Plus the bench was a sieve defensively to boot. Really, really, bad bench last year.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Well said sit
Also the two man game between PF and C is something that could work. I wonder why noone tried it since the original twin towers in SAS.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
Which one?
Well said sir or Well said sh**.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 13, 2011 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
http://damnyouautocorrect.com/
I feel like I’m using a mobile instead of a keyboard… :(
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 6:50 PM MST up reply actions
Sidebar question
Any possibility that a team like the Kings could get Josh Childress for cheap? Like say, Donte Greene? (Not trying to be difficult just curious how Suns fans felt.) I doubt the Kings do this (which makes me sad), but dem’z da breaks.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure I am ready to give up on Chilly.
He has not really had a fair shake.
Agreed
I think we try starting him actually.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Yes, Grant Hill is 39 and is retiring after this miserable year
Start Chilly to increase his trade value.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Interesting.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Gentry won't play him
Moving him for a lower salary player makes sense.
Took take a page from the GreenBay Packers playbook....Balance
there team is undefeated this year because of the balnce they have at the reciever posistion. every sunday its not just one guy making plays. instead of having a ton of pro bowl WR they have a ton of average above guys who can make plays on any given day because of there QB Rodgers
Equate Nash to Rodgers . somehow We have no pure scorer on this team and yet we rank 5th in total points at 105ppg, thats incredible. Nash is able to distribute and we have guys like dudz and Frye who can go off on any night. as long as we improved the bench and defense im ok with our squad. we only needed to fix 2 out of 3 major issues in seriously get better
1. Improve D through schemes and personnel
2. improve bench through free agency and better rotations
3. get scorer through FA draft or trade.
I figured as long as we achieved 2 of these we’d be ok and as you can see scoring has never been a problem for phoenix
Balance is how we will win this year…packers style
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
You're under-rating the GB receiving corps.
Greg Jennings is amazing. Top 5-7 WR in the league. Jermichael Finley is a monster who can only be stopped through double teams (which opens up everyone else). Jordy Nelson has really improved this year, and would be the #1 guy for a lot of teams.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
yes Greg Jennings is top 3 WR in the league
and hes makes the rest of those guys look good. along with rodgers who may be the only QB who laughs at single coverage no matter the DB corps. not because his wr’s r superstars but because hes so freakin accurate.Rodgers has like 5 picks on the year and 3 of them are from receiver tips. if you put Favre back on that team they come back to earth.
but anyways my point is id rather have a balanced attack thats harder to stop then be like chicago last year in the ECF that only had one offensive option therefore made them easier to defend. our only issue on offense I see is better post scoring because they lead to less defensive rebounds then chucking ill advised 3’s. helping our defense is the process.
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
Offense isn't our issue
Everyone talks about offence as if it was a problem last year, and I wonder why anyone thinks that.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html shows all the team stats for 2010-11, and here are the facts:
- Offense: The Suns were ninth in oRtg: 2.6 short of the first placed Denver Nuggets.
- Defence: the Suns were 25th (aka 6th last) 3.1 short of THE LEAGUE AVERAGE, and 10.1 short of first place.
Looking at those numbers, it is pretty clear that we need to improve the D most. Even if we maxed out the offense, we’d only gain 2.6. Going to AVERAGE on D yields a 3.1 improvement, a higher return and one that is MUCH easier to achieve.
IMHO, forget “player who can create his own shot”. Forget scorers, second options after Nash and every other offensive concept. If we can be an AVERAGE defensive team, we can improve our differential by 3.1 points per 100 possessions. last year we had a -0.9 differential, and a 3.1 improvement turns us into a +2.2 team, which is close to 50 wins.
And even if we are slightly worse on offence, I can’t imagine the net effect would be worse – we simply were so bad at D improving that side is bound to lead to an improved differential.
I know it is fun to talk about offense – everyone watches the ball, so everyone has an opinion – but the Suns need to look at the other side, and how we can improve stopping our opponents, because we have so much ground to be gained on that side.
The easiest way to improve the defense
would be to get rid of the worst defender on the team and replace him with someone a little more parsimonious and tenacious on the defensive end.
So who’s the worst defender on the team?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Dec 13, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
Enter Vinsanity :)
Mission accomplished!
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Dec 13, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
If the implication is it was Nash
It wasn’t, and by a LONG margin.
The worst defender, according to 82games – http://www.82games.com/1011/1011PHO1.HTM – Richardson, Siler, Childress and Brooks all conceded 1.16 ppp, Hak 1.14.
Nash was at 1.10, and has turned into a solid team defender.
Hollinger on Nash:
Nash gets a lot of grief for his defense, but last season he was relatively solid. Synergy rated him eighth among point guards. The Suns gave up 2.58 points per 100 possessions fewer with him on the court; opposing point guards had only a 13.7 PER against him. Some of this is semantics — Grant Hill covered several of the better point guards, Nash often checked a bad wing player instead, and Nash’s historical numbers aren’t anywhere near this good.
Nash’s league-low 1.39 personal fouls per 40 minutes is another indicator that he was rarely asked to guard talented players (see Tayshaun Prince comment). For a point guard, he rarely gets his hands on balls — only three point guards had fewer steals per minute. With all that said, my biggest quibble with Nash is in transition defense. Too often last season he dejectedly walked back on defense while the opponent streaked upcourt, an act of frustration after turnovers or expected whistles that never came.
So if we can get rid of Siler, Brooks, JChill and Hak…
I agree with you more or less.
I know full well how great Aaron Rodgers is. But I also know how good the receivers are.
I love the balance comment and I agree with it. The problem is, to do it like the Packers do we need elite weapons, not average guys at every spot. We don’t have the talent right now.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
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