Eutychus Rambles: No PF? No Problem... Yet. Plus - Drafting Jimmer
Wuzzup. I'm sitting back and enjoying the Suns recent return to the realm of 'entertaining' basketball. I hope you are too. We may not be at or above .500 yet, but the team is noticeably more cohesive, full of effort, chemistry looks to be improving and the overall demeanor of most of the players on a night-in night-out basis has been extremely positive. This has lifted my spirits and again peaked my hopes in the season. Instead of numbing the pain with apathy - I once again find myself emotionally invested in a team, but only because I can see that they are emotionally invested in themselves.
For a while there, Suns basketball had become lifeless with both discouragement from fans and players alike translating to painful-to-watch basketball and the mounting of heartbreaking shoulda-coulda-woulda-needed to-losses.
Personally, during the period of declined spirit found a few other things to do.
- Rosterbate and look for 'big-picture' positives from the season
- Play video games
- Sleep
- Watch the Clippers
- Practice my guitar skillz
- Train to be a cage-fighter...
Let me go into a little depth regarding numero uno...
Identify the Issues
Let me start with what's lacking from the team and clear-up the obvious. I think we all can agree that as our team currently stands - we've got a few too many wings, we don't have a real (traditional) Power Forward, and we don't have a reliable 'go-to' guy that can finish games. These are the biggest holes that I see in our team, it's the reason we've had 87 different starting line-ups, it's partly why we made an in-season trade, it's also the product of that very trade (especially the not having a 'go-to' guy now that JRich was gone and remember we even questioned if he could fill that role while he was here since Amare had left).
We were also lacking some intangibles - like effort, focus, cohesion, basic knowledge of the plays, yatta yatta. I feel like we've actually made improvement in those areas over the last 10 or 11 games. The team is gelling better, guys are on the same page as Steve, we're seeing consistent effort for nearly entire games now and overall chemistry is looking better.
Now the roster deficiencies are something else... for those to be fixed we will inevitably need to make some personnel moves. As Lon Babby and Lance Blanks have said before though - with the roster as constituted, we have very trade-able assets that can make correcting our roster easier as players that fit our needs become available. That's a positive way to look at our little problem.
So since I've pretty much rehashed what we already now by identifying these problems I started thinking about what we could do. Aaaaaand then I stopped because I realized that with the Trade Deadline just weeks away... I had no idea what the new Suns FO would or wouldn't do - I mean, we had no idea they were going to make a move to grab up Gortat and dump Hedo and JRich as soon as they did.
No Power Forward? No Problem... yet
So clueless and resigned by admission I dug deep and found a positive spin on what we are seeing from this Suns team despite our current roster issues. It's that we don't have a real PF, or in reality - we don't have a traditional PF. And right now that's a good thing. Actually IT'S A WONDERFUL THING.
Why? It's a simple answer.
Because we've just established a double headed monster at Center with the acquisition of Marcin Gortat and the recovery to health of Robin Lopez. We have, "the Wall not named John'. We have the Polish Hammer and Mofo'in Robin Lopez! Two legitimate centers in this league. Young guys. Guys with potential. When was the last time we've had two players at the center position with the skill-sets that both Robin and Marcin bring to the table? I can't remember, maybe never.
Here's the reality of it though - they are both projects in development. Gortat is a little further along. Our lack of a bonafide PF that isn't a spot up 3 shooter or a PnR finisher-only has helped and given these two young talents more time to develop their offensive game and physical precsence on the court. (More on this in a second - stay tuned) Would our team ultimately be better with a guy like Josh Smith or LaMarcus Aldridge at the PF along side either Lopez or Gortat? Undoubtedly it would, but the breadth of opportunity for these young centers wouldn't be as wide open as it is with him or someone else comparable.
Robin and Marcin have shown great signs of progress in the last month - and it's encouraging. Their competition and production at center I feel has been an inspiration to the team as a whole and they are literally centering a team at the moment that was ready to tip and fall off the season for good.
So as for now - No PF? No Problem, for me at least. I'm enjoying the development of these two young players.
Random thought: While I'm all in 'glass half-full mode' maybe the injury to Goran Dragic's foot is a good thing - If Zabian Dowdell can continue to play well in his great opportunity now to back up Steve Nash, I'm crossing my fingers that much like Gortat has sparked a little fire in Lopez, Dowdell can light a fire under Dragic's cheeks. Dragic played especially aggressive and well this year in training camp with the extra competition of Dowdell, Janning, and that other veteran dude that was cut.
Captain Obvious says,
"That sounds cool and all Eutychus about not having a PF and RoLo and ChinTat... but we still don't have a PF and no problems are actually solved with what you are saying..."
I'm glad you caught that - because what I was saying there... it wasn't a solution, I was just making applesauce out of apples.
But with that being said... what are some real solutions to our roster-jam?
Here's the way I see it - we can fix our problems through either,
- a) a trade here coming up around the deadline
- b) free-agency and stuff at the end of the year
- c) the draft and developing our young players
Since I've decided not to delve into Trades, I also don't want to mess with Free Agents - because I don't know who's available and who we've got pegged as disposable.. err.. movable. That leaves us with the draft and developing our young guys. And it's awkward to think about at this stage of the year because there are still so many 'unknowns' about the future that are up in the air - trade deadline hasn't passed - we know we probably don't want to pay Vince Carter to come back next year - Grant Hill's contract is up at the end of the year... - Pietrus has a player option for next year - Garret Siler's contract is unguarenteed for next year...
See, there are a lot of roster issues still floating in limbo. But like I said to start - I've had some time to think about things to take my mind off of being a sub-.500 team and watching terrible basketball for a large stretch of the first half of this season. So let's give this a whirl.
Developing a Traditional PF
I'll be honest with myself - I would be more at peace if a trade or off-season move was made for a PF than banking all hopes on draft day or developing our 2 picks (both PFs) from last year, Gani Lawal and Dwayne Collins. The reason being that the PF we need has to have specific offensive skills. More on this in a paragraph - hold that thought.
While we saw flashes of promise from Gani in Summer League and training camp, he's out with a bad injury and remains a giant question mark as to his development... Dwayne Collins as well is a mystery, since he was injured when we drafted him we couldn't even take a peek at his potential in the Summer League - now he's in Italy or something and nobody has heard anything about what the heck is going on with him.
I will reserve judgment on these two - because I'd really like to see what we have. The mold we're looking for offensively is a player of two skills, a PF who can (like Amare did) provide a threat both by finishing inside on the PnR and by hitting a consistent mid-range jumper. This combination is what optimizes a Phoenix Suns offense because it provides correct floor spacing for Steve or Goran to manipulate. Opponents must respect the shooting ability of all players on the floor but also protect the inside from diving, rolling, and slicing offense all around. It's the only way the 'pick-your-poison' offense can be maximized.
Seth wrote a good piece earlier in the year over at SBNation AZ that explained this void in the Suns offense this year and outlines Channing Frye as the hub around which our offense has been dependent. Here are the significant points -
For the Suns' "Nash System" to work on offense, the floor has to be spaced and that means there can only be one big man in the lane who doesn't have decent range. Four shooters surrounding one big man in the paint is a classic NBA alignment, but for the Suns, that "big man" has been Steve Nash. He's the one who needs the painted area relatively free so he can do his best work.
Last year, Phoenix reached its offensive pinnacle with Amare Stoudemire being able to both space the floor for Robin Lopez and, of course, play in the paint with Steve Nash when Channing Frye was in the game.
...
But when Amare blew out of town like a high-priced tumbleweed, it turned out that it wasn't his pick-and-roll finishing abilities that were most missed. It was his ability to both space the floor for Lopez AND finish on the pick-and-roll that left the big hole big enough to drive Robin Lopez's hair through.
So we brought in Hakim Warrick - he can finsh... but that's it - his jumper has not been consistent and that hurts spacing, it has allowed defenses to clog the lane when he is in and that results in either Hakim settling for a low percentage jumper or Hakim barreling into defenders crammed in the paint for a charge.
Channing Frye can space the floor like we need - but when we depend on Channing that means we are entirely 'living by the 3..' and a jump shooter - we have seen all too often this season that when Channing isn't shooting well, we most emphatically 'DIE BY THE 3'. That's why he's the key to our offense at the moment, and it's not the most consistent quarter-horse to bank your success on (the three ball).
Things have definitely gotten interesting with the emergence of Gortat and Lopez recently -because both have been stepping out and consistently hit mid range jumpers - THIS IS AWESOMENESS. It's provided a lot of the spacing Steve and Goran need... but like Seth mentioned earlier today - I'm not entirely sold on the act just yet.
The ideal situation would be to add a piece to help with this issue - a PF who has a mid-range game, and has good hands and footwork to finish in traffic. So how we pick up such a specialty player is a mystery to me and the murkiest problem I see the Suns FO tackling.
Maybe like I said earlier - the best answer to this is following the Sarver Manifesto and aqcuiring said player through a trade. What I do know for sure is that tackling the next roster problem on my list (acquiring a go-to scoring option) is a little easier if one kid is still available when the Suns are up to pick in the 2011 draft.
Drafting Jimmer
Alright,let's get the transparency out of the way - this whole spiel might easily be seen (by you the reader) as the product of my college hoops bias (I've been a big BYU sports fan my whole life - my sister, my brother-in-law, my dad, my father-in-law, a majority of my cousins all went there - heck I'm trying to get into BYU for graduate school...), but don't let that muddy the water of what you take away from this.
In the upcoming 2011 NBA Draft, the Phoenix Suns have two first round draft picks 1) our own that might land anywhere from late-lottery to high teens, and 2) Orlando's first round pick that we amazingly got in the Hedo-Jrich-Clark <-> Carter-Peitrus-Gortat trade. Orlando's pick will definitely be a mid, to late 20's pick. There's no telling whether or not we will still have both picks by draft day again considering the still looming trade deadline and off-season moves that could be made prior to it - a draft pick could easily be thrown in some of those transactions.
But let's for a while imagine that we still have those picks. I am proposing that we draft Jimmer Fredette of BYU.
Let me introduce you to Jimmer Fredette:
Here are his 4 year basic stats - remember, the 2011 season is still in swing, still 8 games plus a tournament run -
First off - DraftExpress.com has a prospect preview up this week about him - here is an excerpt,
Fredette's skill level is incredibly high, as evidenced not only by his production, but also the way he gets baskets.
He creates a huge chunk of his offense (68% according to Synergy Sports Technology) on his own, be it in isolation situations, in transition or in pick-and-roll sets—in that order. He's an excellent ball handler who is capable of dribbling with either hand and is very adept at splitting screens. And he's as shifty as they come, given his ability to play at different speeds.
Fredette shows excellent quickness, outstanding footwork and incredible creativity with the ball in his hands. He creates space to operate about as well as any guard in college basketball not named Kemba Walker, and he is a more complete scorer than Walker in terms of his offensive polish.
His best asset is clearly his shooting ability, which borders on outrageous when it comes to the difficulty of shots he is capable of making.
Fredette's range extends well beyond the NBA 3-point line. Unlike most shooters, however, he's just as effective making off-the-dribble jumpers as he is with his feet set. He elevates high off the ground, squaring his shoulders instantaneously and balancing himself perfectly in mid-air. He's capable of pulling up on a dime from unbelievable distances with his lightning quick release.
He has supreme confidence in his shooting ability, taking jumpers that would be viewed as absolutely horrendous if attempted by anyone else. For him these are good looks, though, as evidenced by the rate he converts these off-balance, contested 25- to 30-foot attempts. He's shooting 44% from beyond the arc for the second straight season, even though he's arguably the most closely guarded player in college basketball right now.
Fredette shows little emotion throughout the game, except when occasionally working the officials or expressing mild disappointment in missing an impossible shot by clapping his hands together. He's never rattled, even in the most pressure-packed moments of an intense game, showing a cool and calm demeanor at all times. This bodes well for his transition to the next level.
Fredette has been a hot topic lately since he is leading the NCAA in scoring by a landslide and because as the games get bigger and more important, he rises to the occasion and produces at unbelievable levels.
Though he has had 13 games of 30+ points or more in his college career so far and has also had multiple games of 40+ (including 49 he splashed on UofA ....IN TUCSON, and 47 on bitter rivals Utah... AT UTAH) His performance that has brought the most attention to him in the past few weeks was his 43 point game against conference rivals and nationally ranked #4 San Diego State last Wednesday. Here are some highlights -
After this game - a number of NBA players, scouts, coaches... rappers alike tweeted about him and his performance.
Jimmer Fredette actually worked out and played with team USA in the Summer this past year and Keven Durant and others on the Gold team had an up close look at the BYU Guard. He had this to say in addition to his tweet,
"He had 34 points with 10 minutes left," explained Durant, who is at 28.6 ppg. "That’s something I never could do in college or the NBA. That’s very impressive."
"I had a chance to play against him this summer at my basketball camp, and he’s as good as advertised, especially against some of the top guys in the country," Durant said of Fredette. "He also played with us in USA Basketball (against the FIBA World Championship gold medal team in Las Vegas) and held his own. I’m a big fan."
Steve Nash -
Derrick Williams - Also an NCAA star this year and projected top 5 pick in 2011 -
Even rapper Nelly had something to say -
Lot's of people had lots to say about Fredette's performance in the biggest game of his college career.
Here's another video of earlier this season when Jimmer Drops 47 at Utah - notice the variety in his shot selection, he's not just a screen and shoot, or stand still jump shooter.
Now as highlighted in the beginning of this little post - the Suns need a couple tweaks to make this Roster work. We've talked about the need at PF - and I mentioned the need of a clutch-time scorer. Fredette is this clutch-time option, he's the scoring punch we could desperately use.
Perhaps the most important info you need to know about Jimmer regarding this is summed up here in the conclusion of DraftExpress' preview,
With all this in mind, one of the biggest factors in determining the type of success Fredette will have in the NBA is the team he ends up on. In a fast-paced offense predicated on getting shots early in the shot-clock and a coach willing to live with defensive lapses, Fredette will be an incredible weapon. Put him in the wrong system, though, with a team that likes to grind it out and a coach who demands perfection on every defensive possession and we could be looking at a disaster.
The good thing is that Fredette does not look like the type of player who will have a problem coming off the bench, especially in a winning situation. He has the perfect temperament for this type of role, in fact. He's a team player who is "hot" as soon as he steps on the floor. It's not difficult to see him coming in and changing the complexion of a game with his shooting range and his prowess in late-game situations and from the free throw line. He'd be a terrific option to have on your team in the clutch.
Now there are definitely a number of skeptics who doubt how well his game will translate to the NBA - they worry about his Defense. But absolutely non of those skeptics question his future ability to score and make an impact offensively at the NBA level. That is what we need - a scoring machine.
Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski wrote an article about how his dominance should slow as he reaches the NBA level that I found to be pretty good - check it out, here's a blurb.
Conversations with multiple NBA general managers and scouts who’ve tracked Fredette’s progress result in one consensus: Almost no one agrees on anything. Perhaps there’s something about a white guard with American roots which causes such prejudging, stereotyping and skepticism to abound. Perhaps there’s something about a white guard with American roots which causes such rooting interest and overhype. People are forever trying to pin Fredette into a neat little comparative box. Most agree he could top out in the late lottery around 12 or 13 but probably won’t last past the mid-20s.
The thing is - that's right in our wheel-house. Where he's projected to go is exactly where our picks should be and in fact, DraftExpress has the Suns taking Fredette with the 13th pick (ours) and NBADraft.net also has the Suns taking him at the 13th pick.
The great thing about picking up Orlando's pick, is that if someone else jumps out at us for the 13th - there's still a possibility that we could draft him with that 2nd first round pick in the early 20's (that's if he doesn't get picked up before).
Who knows. There are still the many 'unknowns' and there is a lot of time between now and draft day. For me it's a pipe-dream that all the 'experts' seem to agree with at the moment. Jimmer to Phoenix makes the most sense.
Peace.
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Another hot steamy blog dump for ya'llz - hope you enjoy
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Haha what a screed - well done!
BTW, I probably missed it, but do tell how you came up with the username Eutychus… =D
Following the drama from down unda...
One of my favorite Bible stories -
Eutychus is the boy who falls asleep during one of Paul’s sermons – he falls out a window and dies, then Paul brings him back to life → Acts 20: 7-12. We all fall asleep during the important messages sometimes.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Rec Great Read
i think the 2011 draft is a PF kind of draft looking at the mocks but i agree that Jimmer should be the Suns number 1 priority.we bought dragic to give nash some rest and be his eventual replacement but we still need to find a back up to dragic when the worst happens and Nash is no longer with the team.
i found out about JF and looked at his highlights on youtube boy can this guy shoot. i think he is on a 50-40-90 season this year and we know someone around here can do that as well. i guess the big gamble is can he translate his talent in the nba consitently
"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."
I thought i was the only one that looked at nbadraft.net
They have us drafting someone different every week.
Then again, we may end up trading that draft pick away by the end of the season anyway.
Hopefully, not. I think Gortat is the real thing. I finally watched the NO game today and thought that we are back to being who we were. We have beaten all the top teams in the west so we know we can. We are our worst enemy at this point.
NYC Suns Fan!!!
We haven't beaten the Spurs yet.
Or the Mavs.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
Yeah - I'm not sold on the rough stone rolling that is our current season yet..
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I'd love to draft Jimmer.
and maybe Jon Leuer. I’m not sure about him in the PnR, but he seems like he could be a good fit.
here is a decent scouting report on him.. :
White Wash!
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
Delectable, Eut.
When Steve Nash gives you props, you’re worthy of being on this team. That being said, I’d love to have him here. But that also being said, rookies don’t fare well here. At least not until their 2nd year. We’re a deep team, even now. So any rookie we draft will likely be in the Siler role, and if we land a talented player like Jimmer, do we really want to see him on the bench?
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
you never know -
the Siler… wasn’t really drafted – Lawal is last in line of a log jam – Collins is in Italy – Earl Clark – was playing behind Amare and Lou and didn’t follow instructions the greatest…
If JF was drafted and we don’t pick-up a big name SG in Vince Carter’s wake there is no reason to believe he would waste away on a bench.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Did you guys hear about what happened to athde.net?
"Were the type of team that’ll win alot of street fights" Steve Nash 1-29-11 vs. Celtics
Did you hear that I travelled to the future and had us draft Jan Vesely?
Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.
by hcblankscreen on Feb 3, 2011 5:01 PM MST up reply actions
Rumor has Steve Nash being named as the injury ...
replacement for the West All Stars (over Kevin Love).
I’d prefer that Hash and the boys rest up. Not sure what’s to be gained by being int he All Stars.
Griffin is in as is Odom.
It’s likely to be Love or Aldridge, but if they chose a PG, it would be Parker. They have the best record and he is having one of his best seasons. Sad, but true.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 3, 2011 11:36 PM MST up reply actions
Fredette should be a Sun.
Nobody else will pick him – except maybe the Knicks, and they don’t have a first round pick this year.
I want to give some props to Channing Frye, who seems to get absolutely no respect on this site. In a year and a half, he’s been the starting center, backup center, starting PF, and backup PF for us, has improved his defense and his arsenal, done everything he’s been asked to do, and done it for a bunch of minutes per game. By the time he reaches the end of this contract, he will be making less than a third of what L. Aldridge is making. If we do get a stud PF, he will move to the second team without complaint, and work tirelessly there. He is, has been, and will be amazing for us.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
by haremoor on Feb 3, 2011 5:21 PM MST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd for props to Frye
although I try to credit him once in a while. Don’t want him to get cocky now, would we?
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
Who’s Frye?
Don't trade Dudley!
Some people are just like slinkys, they're good for nothing
yet can still manage to put a smile on your face
when pushing them down a flight of stairs.
Some dude not named Dudley so you wouldn't understand.
Go back to milking your escape goat.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
by NashMV3 on Feb 3, 2011 6:52 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
If I could rec on my phone I would
I have preached the wonder that is Frye on this site more than once and am constantly saddened by the disrespect he gets here. He has done everything we have asked of him in spades. The man has been given just about the best contract he could expect and still has worked diligently to improve his game. Can’t say that about many players
by DJPitz on Feb 3, 2011 10:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I hope I didn't disrespect Frye - I like him
But I’m guessing that’s the vibe I’m giving if you had to say that.
Real talk – he’s not a traditional PF.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I've always been a Frye apologist, especially before I upgraded from Planet Orange to BSotS.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
In other news, Steve Nash did not make the All-Star reserves.
Not really complaining since it’ll mean he gets some rest.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
Why would this be a good idea? This isnt a shot at you or anything Euts, but the guy is not very athletic
is 6’2, and his ballhandling is not all that good either. I think he is a bit small and thin to play sg for us and he would not be very useful playing point with nash and dragic on the team.
Let Josh Childress play
same thing people said about Durant
" Dick Bavetta and Moses parted the Red Sea together". ----Charles Barkley
This debate would be a bit different if Jimmer were 6'10 and athletic
Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.
by hcblankscreen on Feb 3, 2011 7:46 PM MST up reply actions
Really, lol, I never knew durant was 6'2, unathletic, a poor dribbler, and playing out of position.
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 3, 2011 8:05 PM MST up reply actions
LOL- either you haven't seen him play, or you just didn't read the prospect report or what I wrote.
I have no idea what ‘not very athletic’ means in your eyes… are you expecting him to throw down some Blake Griffin tomahawks? Maybe some LeBron James 30 mph 3 point line double pumpers?
Are you wondering if he can dunk? He can a la Goran Dragic if he wants to. Are you wondering if he can play 40 minutes at altitude? He can. Tell me how he’s not very athletic… He’s no Russel Westbrook or Derek Rose – but neither of them are on Fredette’s level when it comes to shooting.
I’ll just dump a few key sentences from the Draft preview (the link is above in the article)
He’s an excellent ball handler who is capable of dribbling with either hand and is very adept at splitting screens. And he’s as shifty as they come, given his ability to play at different speeds.
Fredette shows excellent quickness, outstanding footwork and incredible creativity with the ball in his hands. He creates space to operate about as well as any guard in college basketball
He elevates high off the ground, squaring his shoulders instantaneously and balancing himself perfectly in mid-air. He’s capable of pulling up on a dime from unbelievable distances with his lightning quick release.
I couldn’t find the part where it says he’s not athletic… maybe when they critique his lateral quickness, but that’s about it. And if you’ve ever seen him play you would never question his ball handling ability – he’s of the Derron Williams mold when it comes to cross-overs and he can keep a dribble alive on the paint and being chased much like we see Steve Nash do on a nightly.
A bit small? Maybe I’ll give you that one – but he’s of the Derron Williams / Monta Ellis / Leandro Barbosa mold – he weighs as much (if not more than them) and is just as tall as those guys were coming into the NBA.
A bit thin? Dude is 195… if anything he could lose a few pounds – one of his strengths on DraftExpress.com listed is his strength,
and he has a very strong frame and outstanding touch, which he uses to finish around the basket, often utilizing the glass in impressive fashion.
At BYU he spends the majority of his time off the ball – he’s really a combo guard though he says he a point. You don’t remember Leandro Barbosa working well with Steve or with Goran? Maybe you haven’t seen Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis work together?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Okay, but neither OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon, nor Monta ellis are very good defenders. He barrels to the rim with ease in the collegiate game,
but still, NBA game is much different. I think people might be over exaggerating his capabilities. I mean, sure Barbosa played well of off nash and dragic, but at the same time he was not a very good defender, but his defense was not that big a factor as he was a bench player. Jimmer is shorter than nash, (Who is also a bad defender.) I for one do not favor undersized guys playing the two, but thats just me. Also, what is the warriors record? 20-27, but they have great size with ekpe udoh, andris biedrins, david lee, and occassionaly brandan wright. Yet that teams backcourt gets crushed by the opposition because BOTH of their guards are undersized.
Let Josh Childress play
Time will tell guess. Enjoy your opinion.
P.s. – Was Steve Nash 6-3 when he came out of college?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Say Jimmer grows two more inches, he is still undersized!
You seem to like the guy a lot and its very good to see that you advocate for him, but, I think a lot of people doubt him because of what happened with morisson
Let Josh Childress play
He's a Point Guard.
He says he’s a point guard, the sheets say he’s a point guard.
I can see him playing combo in our system. That is all.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
But why would the suns need combo when they have dragic and nash. I remember I said that it was a good thing that clark could handle the ball;
then you said that that was pointless and the hedo experiment proved that. Barbosa got booted because he took away from dragic
Let Josh Childress play
No no no
That’s not why he was booted – he was booted because he asked to be traded somewhere where he could have more of an opportunity.
http://arizona.sbnation.com/2010/8/16/1626352/leandro-barbosa-asked-trade-suns-raptors
Yeah, I knew I was going to get traded. I asked for a trade after the season. I told Phoenix I wanted to play in a better situation for me, which I think I have in Toronto. I didn’t get that chance to play a lot in Phoenix, so I wanted to go to a different team. The first team that came was Toronto, and I have a good relationship with Bryan Colangelo, so everything worked out.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
The difference between Hedo and Fredette
Fredette is a better shooter and doesn’t “need” the ball or “need” to be in Orlando to play and shoot the lights out. JF can catch and shoot just as well as he can pull up.. or use a screen… or x-over and fade.. or ;alkja;oefj;oaijfaj
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
So, huge scoring phenom down, what do you think the suns are going to do with carter
who will they get for him or will they just waive him?
Let Josh Childress play
That's what I have no idea about...
And that’s why I admit that this whole little daydream I’m having here could be pointless. They could ship out Carter, both our picks, a wing and Steve Nash and bring in Chris Paul, Josh Smith, and Kobe Bryant… then I would look like even a bigger fool.
I really don’t know – and that’s why this is just a good old rosterbating session.
His team option is a very intriguing and could be seen as appealing to trade peeps… but with the lockout and us needing to get rid of a wing maybe… I don’t envy the Suns FO right now. Tough decisions all around.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Also, I did happen to look at the descriptions UNDER strengths labeled weaknesses.
Let Josh Childress play
He seems like a really similar player to Morrisson...
Or even Reynolds.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Not as flat footed as morisson though, or as slow, or as unathletic, but other than that, pretty much identical
:)
Let Josh Childress play
Well, Ammo looked like a GOD in college
He was one of the best scorers I’ve ever seen at that level.
You just never know how they’ll pan out in the NBA.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I agree. But the fact that Morisson's deficiencies could have been sussed out easier than Jimmer's
Let Josh Childress play
BK... I linked AND quoted that article above in the post
really… did you read?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Also, this is not relevant, but B. lopez is averaging 4.5 boards since the new year
Let Josh Childress play
Must not have been one of his new year's resolutions.
Gortat on the other hand is having a splendid new year.
"Yes the game threads have more mood swings than a coked up pregnant woman but you have to admit, it’s always a fun ride." - NashMV3
"I know...The Suns are like a drunk bi-sexual girl. You just have no idea what she is going to do." - TheRza82
I think aliens sucked all of the rebounding ability out of the Lopez twins.
Then they abducted Kevin Love and injected it into him.
Im confused here...
you acknowledged that we need to have a PF at some point…then go on and on and on about drafting a PG? Why do we need another PG? I mean, I agree – take the best guy available – but really? Are you suggesting we move him to SG after we let Carter go? So you are advocating that we pick up a PG that we don’t need and then wait a year while he matures to the point that he MIGHT be a good SG?
I remember another top shooter in the NCAA that was drafted high a few years back – Reddick. It took him years to find a niche in Orlando and this was a guy that went through 4 years of college under the best coach in the NCAA. Not saying that Fredette wont be good, just not convinced that we should spend a draft pick on him if we can pick up a better big man instead.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
I was pretty elaborate in what I said
We took 2 PF’s last year. We haven’t even road tested them yet… and we’re supposed to take another obscure PF (there will be no ‘better big men’ left at 13 than what we already have in Lawal or Collins) when a combo-guard scoring phenom is an option, something we also need just as badly?
Here’s the deal with comparisons to Reddick – they don’t work. J.J. Reddick was a good shooter coming out of college (Jimmer’s numbers are better) but he couldn’t create his own shot like Jimmer already can and he didn’t develop his penetration game until like you said – 4 years or so in the league. Fredetter already has a penetrating game.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I know you are high on him Eut...
I just see some flaws in his game that may create problems at this level….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
like which ones?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I disagree.
As a North Carolina fan, there are fewer people I hate more than JJ Redick. But to claim he couldn’t create his own shot at the college level would be an inaccurate statement. That guy created almost every shot he took, he took a lot of shots and and he hit tough shots consistently.
Reddick was a pure shooter
As good as they come including Fredette. And its bogus to say that Reddick didn’t have a penetration game in college. No more on that topic.
I am not saying we couldn’t use the kid and with Carter presumably gone at the end of the season it might be a good pick up for us. I am all for picking the best player available and if that is Freddy here then fine. I see how he could be a good addition to our core, I am just not a die hard like you.
BTW – personal question, given all the BYU history you outlined, are you Mormon?
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
I am biased because I have watched him his whole career
this is true -
When I say Reddick doesn’t have the penetration game – I refer to the way JF can score in the paint with circus-like ease. And it’s not luck, it comes from growing up playing with his brother and his friends who were something like 7 years older and he would have to be extra-creative to score on them in the paint. It’s something most pure-shooters aren’t known for.
Yes I am Mormon
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
it comes from growing up playing with his brother and his friends who were something like 7 years older and he would have to be extra-creative to score on them in the paint.
Funny. My brother has always been tall and played C for his first couple of years. But then he started playing against me and I turned him into a PG. Now I play him even harder and he too has developed ways to finish over and around me. Unfortunately, he has Goran Dragic-like confidence issues and refuses to drive. he likes taking jumpers. Honestly, he does kind of remind me of Jimmer a bit, cross-over and all (not as low as it needs to be, but pretty effective). Except he plays C on defense.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
JImmer sure can score...
but he is just a smaller version of JJ Redick.
I am not sold on him as a point guard and he is not an elite level SG because of his size and athleticism.
I pass.
i think he would be best
as a combo guard off the bench, at least for his first few years. then maybe after he developes he could be a starting SG, if we had a big PG they could switch on defense
Leandro Barbosa didn't work?
Jimmer can score better than Barbosa.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I dont think that really matters, Barbosa took away from dragic's gamer, Jimmer would do the same.
Let Josh Childress play
And when Nash leaves?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Is he going to play for 5 more years here in Phx?
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Jimmer is not a Nash replacement
He is scorer, not a point guard. He is 6-2, and not a great athlete.
I like him, but I am not sure his skill set translates into NBA starting material. LB was a far better athlete than Jimmer and proved his ability at the NBA level.
To be completely objective and fair-the report does in fact say that his skils at the point are in development and that he is getting better.
I mean if you think aout it, barbosa was 6’3 and was playing shooting guard. Who knows if Jimmer can continue to score in the nba like he does now, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility that he could help us out when nash retires.
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 4, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
LB is 6-4, and has otherwordly speed with the ball
and he can flat out score and is a very good shooter when he has someone else getting him shots [and an ok shooter when he is forcing everything].
Jimmer is a great college scorer and can shoot, but he is very similar to many many guys that never make the transition to the NBA level like expected. He is far too slow and too small to play SG for long stretches. I see him as a bench specialist, but no more.
He is definitely not a PG. If he had great PG feel and mentality, I would feel a little different. But he does not. And I certainly don’t think you should waste a 1st round pick on the guy. I would rather trade the pick.
Barbosa is a bench specialist as well-and his season in toronto has not gone over very well.
We never got to see Barbosa at the Ncaa game so it is not a clean apples to apples comparison. Either way, Jimmer is leading teh nation in ppg by a wide margin, I think it may be a bit too soon to come to any kind of conclusion
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 4, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
My point is that Barbosa is no more than a specialist
so trying to extrapolate Jimmer as anything more is silly.
BTW, I am not a Barbosa fan.
I'm not saying you are a barbosa fan, but Jimmer is leading this team by himself
That has gotta be worth something. I mean BYU has its highest ranking in over two full decades. Also, if Jimmer was to come here, he would certainly be getting more playing time than J.J reddick is getting now. And if Jimmer falls down to the early twenties, high teens is that really that huge of a risk?
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 4, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Besides - Goran and Barbosa
developed some really chemistry at the end of the season and worked just fine together.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I'll give you this, you have made me re-think my stance because of your persuasiveness, but unless
I actually watch a game, I cannot give you my full opinion.
Let Josh Childress play
IT's hard too -
because their one nationally televised game already happened. Unless you have the Mountain West Channel like I do… Cox 188 – you’ll have to wait till the tournament
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Well, I'll be watching the tourney for the first time in my life because of you Euts.
I want to let you know how big a deal that is
Let Josh Childress play
haha that's awesome
you make me want to cry a little
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Is it because I have never watched NCAA ball or because I am willingly taking time out of my schedule to
specifically give you my worthless opinion?
Let Josh Childress play
Wait you've never watched any NCAA ball?
Dang – how do you have such strong opinions and whatnot about player comparisons and stuff?
But the fact that you’re interested was choking me up – but I’m over it. Still love you. no homo.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Nah, I've watched tapes and stuff. I watch games that my friends suggest to me and things like that. I also watch lots of clips and read lots of articles,
I did watch a John wall vs evan turner matchup live though. But, I have not actually watched a full Ncaa game live. How else could anyone have such strong, firm, headstrong opinions about players? :)
Let Josh Childress play
not only that,
I think as do others it’s hurting dragic not to have LB or another versatile ballhandler to share the duties this year
We don't know that until we see him against NBA competition
We never got to see what Barbosa could do in the NCAA. He is a lethal scorer.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I wouldn't mind taking Jimmer though
medium-risk, medium-high reward kind of guy I think
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
My point -
don’t know which no-name PF would be a better chance…
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I mean he did play against the Olympic team
and ‘held his own’ there last summer – but you’re right. We won’t know how any college player will match-up in the NBA. People even doubted Blake Griffin before he destroyed summer league a year ago.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Touche! that is soo true! haha
Tucker was the king of Summer League
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I have faint memories, but was he not a pretty big guard?
I mean, he did have some pretty nice games for us.
Let Josh Childress play
Yeah - something like 6'6''
a real SG – but kind of skinny. His shot was just always too flat and couldn’t break the rotation
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
We can't use the example of Blake in the summe rleague..
The Clippers were overly protective of him and his minutes….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I thought he was a college SF that they wanted to play at SG.
I miss the guy. He seemed like a good kid.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
nobody doubted Blake Griffin
That is why he was the #1 pick. They may have doubted that he could come in and be a top 5 player, but they certainly thought he would be an all-star in this league.
haha Just like nobody doubted Kwame Brown or Hasheem Thabeet
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Just wait...
Kwame Brown will be the next Shaq. And Thabeet will be the next Mutumbo. Once they are given a chance!
Vince Carter likes cheese.
That would be cool!
seriously – I don’t enjoy watching peeps fail. Unless your name is Kobe. Or Vujacic. Or Duncan.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Absolutely
I do hope Thabeet pans out and plays well soon (just not in games against us). He was fun to watch in college. As for Kwame, I think he is about as good as he’ll ever be. Not worthy of the #1 pick, but now a solid backup C.
Of course I love watching any Laker or Spur fail. Doesn’t get any better than watching them lose.
Vince Carter likes cheese.
i am not sure i understand your argument here
Everybody doubted Kwame and thought MJ was an idiot for drafting him at the time. I don’t recall anyone expressing doubt about Griffin at all. Maybe whether he would have superstar impact, but not whether he would be a very good player.
Thabeet was definitely questioned and everyone thought he was a risk.
I am not arguing that draft order has any meaning, i am simply stating that at the time of the draft, there were few if any doubters. That wasn’t the case for Thabeet or Kwame.
Heck, even Michael Beasely had doubters, but Griffin didn’t. If anything, people overhyped the guy.
I bet LB could have scored 27 a game with 20 shots in the Mountain West conference too
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Feb 3, 2011 11:24 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah he probably would have made Pullen look like a YMCA player
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Yup he's got elite athleticism. (LB)
Dude scored 18 a game in the NBA off the bench. I love your JImmer love but I don’t think he’s ever going to score like LB in the NBA.
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Feb 3, 2011 11:30 PM MST up reply actions
Off the bench playing 30mpg
And I won’t know -we won’t know until he’s in the NBA this is true
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I'm sure we'll remember this conversation after his NBA career
This is a very meaningful conversation point. I bet you 10 cases of A&W root beer.
Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Feb 3, 2011 11:39 PM MST up reply actions
Make it mountain dew and you've got a deal
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I'll get in on it...
I’m hoping for a cross between Adam Morrison and J.J. Redick….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Not sure where the Adam Morrison comparisons come from...
other than the fact he was a white dude – their respective styles are very different.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I am not sure I agree with that sentiment
Yes, Jimmer can score in college, but has yet to show he can do it at the NBA level. LB has proven he can flat out score. In fact, that is about all LB does.
that's fine, I understand that
LB can shoot at range, he is probably the fastest in the game and that’s how he get’s his points other than from the 3, he is full-speed to the cup and diving to the rim.
If you watch Jimmer though, even in college, his variety in shot ability is impressive. His range and ability from 3 is unreal, yet his touch and ability from mid-range and creativity in the paint is something we don’t wee often from LB – nor do we see LB’s ability to effectively ISO as well as Jimmer can – but it’s all true that he’ll have to prove he can do it at the next level.
I’m not trying to discount what LB does or has done – only saying that this kid is showing the ability to be a more versatile scoring threat.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
One thing you haven't mentioned, Eutychus -
Jimmer has some star power – nobody else in this draft will (not like Griffin, anyway). Marketing matters, and this kid has some ESPN cred and is becoming more of a household name. That could get amplified during March madness, and make him a more valuable commodity, and more worthy of draft consideration. He’ll put some butts in the seats.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
good point
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Well, what did you expect? ;-)))
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
OFF TOPIC. ESPN...
Bucher: Suns have best shot at No. 8 seed
Headline: VINCE CANCER retired after hitting his 20,000th point..!
Forget reports..
Our best shot is winning games….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Last thing on Jimmer for now-If he takes the cougars all the way and wins it then I'll be completely convinced, other than that
I’ll be periodicallly chiming my opinion in
Let Josh Childress play
That's how he's played his whole college career -
that’s what’s scary – he’s got that killer instinct.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
This takes the NBA three like he was born doing it. This guy does not hit his chest and is always in command of his emotions-
I freaking love it. He has the kobe mentality. from what I have seen. The way he comfortably just hits that NBA three at the collegiate level is remarkable. The guy can score deftly and easily and hopefully he grows a bit taller. (I went and got whatever tape I could get my hands on, which is why I just woke up right now :)
Let Josh Childress play
Big, Big, Big fan of Jimmer...
He’s certainly been hyped up, but regardless of that, I think he has the potential to be the next big thing in the NBA as well.
Here’s the thing, Nash only has one year left, and Dragic is still a big ? So, why not bring in one of the top rated PG’s and one of the most potent & consistent scorers that the NCAA has seen from that position? Now before people start questioning his ability as a passer, I can tell you from watching him first-hand on multiple occasions this season that he is very good at finding the open man, but his teammates are not very good at hitting the open shot.
PG will be a huge need for us when Nash retires if Dragic still hasn’t shown he can be the guy…I’m all for hedging our bets on a little insurance. Even if Dragic does end up being the next starter, wouldn’t it be awesome to have such a great scorer and ball-handler running the point for the second unit?
My vote is absolutely…If he’s still there, then we should draft him without a doubt.
Glad someone else has actually seen him
I’m convinced that if those who doubted his ability athletically or whatever actually saw him in a game they would be hardpressed to continue doubting
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
well
i like goran and all but i would sooner relinquish my team to a player who can lead and dominate like jimmer than a passive player with confidence issues.
I like Goran and I think both could co-exist
Jimmer’s confidence is a different style from Nash’s – and maybe that would be a good thing for Dragic to see
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Bill Simmons thoughts...
From his latest mailbag article:
Remember, as long as you have one elite skill, you can play in the NBA for 8-10 years. Jimmer can fill it. He won’t be a bust. I see him landing somewhere between a homeless man’s Mark Price and an extremely poor and almost destitute man’s Stephen Curry. Could he eventually carry your second-team offense for six minutes per half? Yes. Could he thrive as a spot-up shooter on the right team? Yes. Would you have to hide him on defense at all times? Yes. Would it be fun to scream “JIMMER!” and watch him swish 28-foot 3-pointers? Yes. Would it be fun to have an NBA star whose name sounds like what they called an erection in 1920? Of course.
I like the idea of getting a shooter/future replacement for Nash, but am not completely sold on him. Would I rather have him over another Earl Clark pick? Yes. Howerver, if a great PF is available in the draft at our spot that fits our need, I’d take the PF.
Also in the mailbag, his wish for Nash/Hill/Childress to be traded to Dallas for Beaubois/No. 1/cash/Butler (to be cut).
Vince Carter likes cheese.
Bill Simmons' skill as a talent evaluator = 1/10
Skill in being able to ramble on about crappy Hollywood flicks in a sports article = 10/10.
Surprisingly his podcast doesn’t suck and he gets his guests to open up like they are his friends.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Feb 4, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
Thats because Simmons is friends with the podcast king, Adam Carolla.
Vince Carter likes cheese.
great article Eut...
Look of good infor here, but on the other hand, I am not completely sold on Fredette, yet….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
That's fine too -
This is really just a post on my random thoughts – but also a heads up, so we can keep an eye on him during the tournament
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Jimmer V Redick
Jimmer’s current season:
27.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, 3.0 to, 1.39 a/t, 1.4 spg, .474 fg%, .885 ft%, .418 3p%, 1.44 pps
Redick’s senior year:
26.8 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.6apg, 2.5 to, 1.06 a/t, 1.4 spg, .470 fg%, .863 ft%, .421 3p%, 1.50 pps
I should point out that Duke had 2 other NBA players on that squad [McRoberts and Shelden Williams]. I would argue that BYU has no other players that command the ball and they need Fredette to score, whereas Duke had other options.
My point here is that while Redick has shown the ability to be a specialist in the NBA, albeit a role playing bench player [or starter on a bad team], he is the ceiling for Fredette. Unless Fredette can prove point guard abilities that we don’t currently see, he is a smaller version of Redick.
Maybe he can play point guard and can prove so this summer. But I am not willing to bet a draft pick on it.
How many duke products have we seen not make the transition as expected?
Trajan London, Christian Lattener (I know I screwed that up), Jay Williams, Danny Ferry, Bob Hurley, Will Avery, Mike Dunleavy, Shelden Williams….
I’m just trying to maintain an objective stance here. Trying to pin fredette as a specialist is fine, but trying to downsize his talents when you probably have not seen him play a full game is not fair either.
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 4, 2011 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
Trajan Langdon
The ‘Alaskan Assassin’ was my favorite player for Duke. Guy could flat out shoot 3s. Got drafted high and was never given the chance in Cleveland, so went to Europe and has succeeded there, winning championships and MVPs.
Proves even talented shooters don’t always translate well in the NBA. Nothing new to you guys though. I’m interested in actually watching Fredette in the tournament, since anything pre-March in NCAA is painfully awful to watch.
Vince Carter likes cheese.
I have seen him live 3 times and watched at least 8 other games
Not saying that is a big enough sample size to determine anything, but I certainly have seen him play and seen him torch other teams [including U of A].
I am not downsizing his talents, but merely pointing out that what you do on one level, doesn’t always translate to the next. I have coached many guys in HS that were studs and went on the next level. Very few of them were able to make the leap without some diminished return in their game. Playing against a 6-3 guy in college is one thing, but facing a 6-7 guy who is quicker, stronger and more skilled than any 6-3 guy you have seen usually means parts of your game get taken away from you and you are less effective.
That is why Redick goes from a national player of the year to a reserve specialist. That is also why combo guards are relegated to being bench players, for the most part. Ben Gordon can score, but he can’t run a team and having him on the floor for starter minutes hurts your defense. Unless he is scoring, he is useless, because he does very little else. Barbosa is the same.
But like you said-Reddick had other options to go to at duke, Jimmer doesnt.
And being able to score is something that the suns need. We dont need him to run the team all by himself; the suns system is made for good shooters and if Jimmer could do that the suns would be set. Its also an added bonus that he is solid in the clutch. He can create for himself as well. The suns are okay with defensive lapses so long as you are producing offensively.
Let Josh Childress play
by Bkj on Feb 4, 2011 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks for those stats.
I think they speak volumes. Again, I he could be a phenom in the NBA, but I guess at this stage I am uncomfortable using our earliest pick to get him. We’ll see.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
our earliest pick
isn’t very high anyways so i dont think it would be a huge waste
Another Steph Curry or just an amazing college scorer like Morrison or Redick?
Really tough call. I like his moves around the hoop though.
I have a feeling that another team will gamble on him before the Suns even get a chance. If the Suns get a lottery pick AND somehow luck into a top ten pick I still don’t see them picking Fredette.
Age
How about the fact he is a senior at age 21 (22 in 3 weeks) already. Most Yes that is still young, but how many seniors are drafted nowadays, and panned out? I’m not saying don’t draft him because he is an old man, but should that be taken into account? Would we rather draft a 19 year old who we can groom for 2 years? By the time Jimmer learns our offense and becomes a capable player in the NBA, how old will he be? Question is, would you rather draft a 19 year old, or a 22 year old? Especially since the 22 year old isn’t a guaranteed home run. Just food for thought…
Vince Carter likes cheese.
From DraftExpress –
One of the reasons Fredette has become such a popular figure with fans and NBA scouts alike is the way he carries himself on the floor. Never one to pump his chest, despite the incredible manner in which he produces, he lets his play on the court speak for itself. Incredibly poised and humble, he’s a true competitor who plays with a self-confidence that borders on cockiness.
Don’t think he’d have that if he wasn’t the age and didn’t have the experience that he has
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Antoine Young.
:-p
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
Seriously though, this is an interesting thought.
The only game of Jimmer’s I’ve watched was when he came to Omaha, and that happened to be his worst game. Therefore, I can’t comment on his full capabilities. But even though he only made 5 shots, about 3 of those were of the “Are you kidding me?” variety. 1 was one of those 28-foot 3s and the other was an off-the-dribble-pullup-hand-in-face-midrange-jumper. He is a talented kid. And I actually think he could fit on the team. He and Dragic would make a nice duo coming off the bench, especially if we are playing a team with a smaller backcourt. I think their skillsets would complement each other well. And if Dragic continues to improve and really is the guy at point after Steve hangs ’em up then I could see Jimmer filling a Crawford/Terry role. But then again, I could see him struggling because of his size and type of game. Our scouts will have to do their jobs.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
And go Shawn Watson and Barney Cotton! Seriously, leave Lincoln. Now.
Super Bowl here we come!
Snaps - not sure if I should be happy about that...
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
Unfortunately he's probably a top 5 lock.
I went all out on Jimmer because he’s a realistic pick for us given his projected draft position – not many big time players projected in our range
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12
I understand...
I just guess that I don’t feel he is a “big time” player. In fact, I don’t really like this draft and wouldn’t be mad at Sarver if he traded our picks to get some players [or for picks next year].

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