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Phoenix Suns Musings: Fun With Numbers...Harsh Realities...'11 NBA Draft

Opening Prayer:

Oh NBA Lord we love you,

You are big, so very big

in fact huge you are,

we're all REALLY IMPRESSED.

Thank you for the spherical leather object we call the ball,

A hard court to bounce the ball on,

All these things we thank you for,

Oh sweet lord, a Basketball team to love,

to root for, to cry about and for.

Dear NBA lord these things we pray,

Day by...day by day, we pray that you fix Steve's crotchal region,

And Channing's arm.

Dear Gentle, accomodating NBA God,

either make VC good or injure him for the remainder of the season.

Or perhaps we can pray for no harm, 

Just a gentle OD of cookies.

And for our Suns in the 2011 draft one or two good rookies 

Thank you dear sweet, sweet NBA Lord.

 

Does Robin Lopez Suck?

The Suns gave Goran Dragic approximately 2.5 seasons to impress them before dispatching him for a player who was more developed but arguably a lower ceiling. Dragic showed flashes of brilliance throughout his career as a Sun. Similarly, Robin Lopez has shared the "Moments of Brilliance" tag with Dragic. If the Suns found it acceptable to trade Dragic at this point in his career, why wouldn't they find it acceptable to trade Lopez? Both are young enough and have a pretty decent market value. Especially Lopez as a 7 footer who has some tools to work with. 

With the emergence of Marcin Gortat, Robin Lopez is expendable. I'll throw some numbers at this statement below to validate it. Yes it is nice to have a two headed monster, a quality 5 (Gortat) along with something better than Jarron Collins to back him up. Yet the Suns have needs. If Lopez is underperforming/needs a change of scenery/breaks too many doors, then why not send him to the highest bidder?

Star-divide

STATISTICAL ANALYSIS FOR SCHMUCKS (Dumbing it Down):

Tonight I set out to prove Robin Lopez sucks. And while many of you my bretheren would agree with that statement without some sort of numbers based evidence, I felt it only ethical to reach a verdict by statistic. But which one? How do we prove a player sucks?

League-wide statistical ranks are one option, going Hollinger-Geek is another.  One could also just toss a whole bunch of numbers at the wall and see what sticks. So I'll do this...

Are you all familiar with the NBA's "Efficiency Rating?"  In short this is a number we can use to evaluate players. It goes something like this:

((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

Per the wikipedia, this was created by one John Hollinger, who I respect, because he's certainly more intelligent than I, he's landed a high paying gig with ESPN, and he's bald and hasn't stapled a chipmunk to his head (just like me). Nevertheless I tend to overlook his rankings:

The Player Efficiency Rating is ESPN Insider writer John Hollinger's all-in-one basketball rating, which attempts to boil down all of a player's contributions into one number. Using a detailed formula, Hollinger developed a system that rates every player's statistical performance.

Everyone knows that the statistic is flawed, and Mr. Hollinger even admits to it. The one area in which efficiency seems to gain credence though is the list of the all-time top 50 efficiency leaders in the NBA. 27 of the names are currently in the NBA Hall of Fame. Another 8 names are active and most likely will go to the Hall of Fame. That is 35 of 50 names. Again, it is not perfect, but it gives us something to work from. So back to Robin Lopez...

Robin Lopez is averaging 7 points and 3 rebounds a game. There. Simple. An average fan can look at that and figure the guy isn't so great. But you and I are sophisticated thinkers and passionate Suns fans. We can do more:

  • Robin Lopez is currently residing in 38th place among Centers in the league with an efficiency rating per 48 minutes of 22.86.  
  • Robin Lopez's PER ranks him at 25th in the leaugue at 14.82, just below Hibbert, Mohammed, Speights and Foster.
  • If we want to look at it in a different light, how about Averaged PTS/Rebounds/Assists. This is simply addition:  AVGPPG+AVGRBPG+AVGAPG.  With a minimum of 46 games played, Robin Lopez is 30th in the league among Centers with average of 11.3.
  • Robin Lopez is 40th in the league among centers playing at least 17.3 minutes per game, give or take 2-3 mpg. 
  • If you go by the rebounds per 48 minutes PG, Lopez is 48th among centers with 10.0.

The problem with this statistic is that no one plays 48 minutes per game. Yes this is a way to put everyone on an even plane. But it still isn't a realistic way to analyze a guy's production.

What if we just got simple and assume that a 7-foot Center should be rebounding? Then wouldn't it make some sense to compare Lopez' s average rebounds to others who are playing about the same minutes?  Of all centers playing around 17 minutes a game, + or - 2-3 minutes, here is the class that Lopez is hanging with:

30. Nazr Mohammed , OKC-CHA
31.  Nenad Krstic , BOS-OKC
32.  Chris Wilcox , DET
33.  Jordan Hill , HOU
34.  Zydrunas Ilgauskas , MIA
35.  Joel Przybilla , CHA-POR
36.  Omer Asik , CHI
37.  Aaron Gray , NOH
38.  Zaza Pachulia , ATL
39.  Jermaine O'Neal , BOS
40.  Brad Miller , HOU

Lopez would fall here at #41.

The Draft?

The Washington/University of Arizona game was impressive. Isiah Thomas is good. Derrick Williams is great. He's a 19 year old PF fom Southern California if you don't follow the college game a whole lot.

He is currently averaging around 19 and 8 a game, along with 61% from both behind the arc and in front of it. If you want to go off the PER stat, you can say Williams is #2 in the league. His TS% (true shooting) is 3rd in the league at 72.4

Williams has been mentioned in mock drafts from 1-5.

From Draft Express:

While he's not the biggest player in this draft (he's likely to measure somewhere between 6-8 and 6-9), nor the longest or most explosive, Williams' polished skills, high basketball IQ and fantastic scoring instincts are tools that NBA teams are in desperate need of these days. Smart, versatile power forwards who can create their own offense and score from anywhere on the floor are viewed by many as the second-most coveted players in the league right now after pick-and-roll point guards.

If you are the Suns brain trust of Gentry/Blanks/Babby/Sarver, what are you thinking? Gortat is the man in them iddle. Finding Lopezesque production is probably fairly cheap, and most of us can agree that Lopez doesn't have the ceiling of a top big man in the league. The glaring need is a dominant 4. But have the Suns found it in Channing Frye? He's brought his defense this year and upped is work on the boards. While were talking ceilings, can Frye at 28 become even better? A 20/10 guy? If not, what's more expensive, trading into the top 5, or signing an established veteran to a huge contract?

OR

Is this the Summer the Suns finally deal with the harsh reality that Steve Nash may need to go? If so, do you package Nash and Lopez for a shot at top 5 pick? And if the Suns are dealing Nash, is Jimmer the heir apparrant?

Again from Draft Express:

Fredette shows excellent quickness, outstanding footwork and incredible creativity with the ball in his hands. He creates space to operate about as well as any guard in college basketball not named Kemba Walker, and he is a more complete scorer than Walker in terms of his offensive polish.

His best asset is clearly his shooting ability, which borders on outrageous when it comes to the difficulty of shots he is capable of making.

Certainly sounds like someone we know, yes?

Did u see this?

What about this? 

 


Oh, my friends I leave you for the moment and leave my musings at your door step.

 

 

What is next for the Phoenix Suns?

Comment 41 comments  |  5 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

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I really don't know a ton about college basketball so I could be asking a stupid question here.

But, does it seem like Jimmer Fredette’s play will in fact translate well into the NBA?
I ask because I have heard two totally opposite view points on this and I don’t know enough to make an educated opinion.

by Dragic_is_Magic on Mar 12, 2011 10:45 PM MST reply actions  

why not?

hes small but he’s strong. he’s got nashesque qualities.

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Mar 12, 2011 10:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Here’s one man’s opinion on Jimmer, courtesy of Canis Hoopus.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 12, 2011 11:03 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

That was an interesting read..

Thanks. I agree with the fact in that article that he could come off the bench well with his abilities but that a lot of the situations he is put in now won’t happen in the NBA.
Still not really sure what to think, but this helped.

by Dragic_is_Magic on Mar 12, 2011 11:23 PM MST up reply actions   3 recs

If I recall, Nash was some small scrawny kid from Santa Clara.

Yet he turned out alright.

Here in Phoenix, we have the YUMS: Young Unorthodox Medical Staff

by NashMV3 on Mar 12, 2011 11:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I've really become a fan of him. He plays so well with heart and passion.

I hope he could have a year or two under the training of Nash and Hill here and right after that, hopefully he’ll be a legend.

by shawndy on Mar 12, 2011 10:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Fail.

The wait was too short.

Here in Phoenix, we have the YUMS: Young Unorthodox Medical Staff

by NashMV3 on Mar 12, 2011 11:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Yep.

I didn’t really have to wait very long at all.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 13, 2011 12:06 AM MST up reply actions  

Great allusion.

Love that show.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 13, 2011 6:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Whether we make the playoffs or not were still a decent team in need of just one more piece.

All we need is a consistent PF that can score in the paint and be a go to option. Because we don’t have that we can be shut-down in the 4rth quarter.

Now, I don’t know what the FO has planned. Rebuild? Contend? No one really knows because of this whole CBA deal. If there’s no season next year should we bother to add that piece and contend in 2012-13? Nash will get a year off, but he’ll be a year older with one season left on his contract, so it’d be do or die. Hill will probably retire if there’s no up-coming season.

Everything depends on the CBA negotiations. Lets assume there is no season next year. We have two options. Trade Nash like you said for a top 5 pick or bring in the pieces to compete in 2012-13. That only gives us one year in less Nash decides he wants to play more. It’s the same deal for anyone who would trade for him. I don’t think anyone would be interested in a 38 year old PG, but you never know. Of course there is always the possibility that Nash just retires instead of finishing out his contract.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 12, 2011 11:35 PM MST reply actions  

What about another 38 year old

you wouldnt think anybody would want a thirty eight year old center either. especially since he’s way past him prime. but I think NAsh hasn’t even hit his prime yet because he’s had the same numbers he’s had when he was an mvp.

I rock so get used to it.

by Colton Dodson on Mar 13, 2011 8:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Yup

Nash is definitely still a work in progress. Once he develops a view more parts of his game, might be a pretty good player. I see him hitting his prime around the age of 47.

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 13, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Nash is past his prime.

His prime was from 05-07. He hit it at 31 and passed it at 34. He’s a bit slower now and his body doesn’t heal as fast. He played really well in the first 30 games, but his body can no longer maintain that kind of play through an 82 season grind. He’s been able to remain an all-star caliber PG though due to great conditioning. He’s not the superstar or MVP Nash anymore. Even though Gentry said last season was Nash’s best; I believe it was him just sucking up to his star player and praising his work ethic.. I watched over 60 games last season and I could say that Nash was at his best from 05-07. Back then he was a cable scorer that could take over a game any way he wanted to(accept defensively). Now we can only expect him to take over a game every now and than or once in a while even if he’s a 100%. Yes, Nash can still put up the stats, but so could Jordan from 95-98. Yet the Jordan from 88-93 was better.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 13, 2011 7:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I have always had a grudge against Lopez...

Because I have always felt we should have drafted McGee who wound up going the very next pick in that draft. McGee is a 7 foot center who can run faster than almost any center, is incredibly athletic, almost as agile as a guard, and can shoot better than a lot of centers. Basically, he is a center built perfectly for a run and gun system. Why we picked a slow, clumsy center I will never know.

Arizona Sports (minus) UofA wildcats = Love!

by PDXCardinal on Mar 13, 2011 12:51 AM MST reply actions  

McGee hasn't even shown half of what Lopez has

Last year we got to see what the front office saw in Lopez when they drafted him, he may never return to form but we at least know he had it.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 13, 2011 1:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Check out this ROOKIE video

If you honestly don’t think this kids style wouldn’t flourish in Phoenix, or see the incredibly high ceiling this kid has, then there is no point in trying to talk basketball with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opcT9pVQQpQ

If you are not a visual kind of guy, look at his stat line with pretty limited playing time on a pretty bad team.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3452/javale-mcgee

2.2 blocks per game is enough to put him third currently in the NBA for this stat behind the likes of Dwight Howard at 2.3 per game. Lopez is at .7 (although to be fair, Lopez is playing on average 10 less minutes per game). Also, Mcgee more than doubles the RPG average of Lopez.

 Having a center that can play like a guard would be a god send for Phoenix. Imagine Javale Mcgee running the court with our team. Mark my words, we will one day look back at that draft and wish we had made this pick rather than Lopez (Mcgee went the very next pick .to a very happy Washington team).

Arizona Sports (minus) UofA wildcats = Love!

by PDXCardinal on Mar 13, 2011 2:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I wasn't talking about potential

McGee obviously has all the physical tools, I was just looking at how much of their potential they’ve realized. If we’re going to look back at that draft, our regret will be passing on Hibbert, not McGee.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 13, 2011 3:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Although I do agree McGee would fit well on the team.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 13, 2011 9:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Some more fun with numbers

I checked out my Fantasy League report and this is what they wrote about Gortat: “Gortat continues to come off the bench for the Suns, but he is playing starter minutes and producing like an elite center of late. In his last five games he is averaging 14.6 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2.4 blocks, 2.2 assists and 0.8 steals in 33.6 minutes per game off the bench.”
Wow those numbers are just sick.

Alea iacta est!

by PolishHammer on Mar 13, 2011 3:20 AM MST reply actions  

Batman & Robin

I’ll repeat:
I think Gortat and Lopez should be called "Batman and Robin", because Gortat is doing all the work, while Lopez is standing around, looking pretty (well, prettier than Gortat) and … well… his name is Robin and he doesn’t really do anything!
Cheers.

by kirkub on Mar 13, 2011 7:59 AM MST up reply actions  

The nerd in me wanted us to trade for Batum

Not because he’s a baller, but so we could have a true Batman and Robin.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 13, 2011 10:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Nice article Will.. like always

But what about our unability to develop young players??
Never heard of that.. But for me it’s a fact.

I have some thougths that I will not share because there are not so “bright bright” but hey,
if you think about it, the last decent player who grew up well as a Suns is LB. ouch.

For me it’s the biggest weakness of our franchise and it’s been there before the D’Antoni era.. and with all the lottery picks given for crap trade made the last 10 years we can ask the question : Can we stop shooting bullets in our own feets??

I just ask myself if it’s a problem of personal or I don’t know but I think it’s crazy/scary.
What do you think about guys?

Go Suns!

Go Suns!! Suns For Life!! (miss you Raja)

by Reelsht on Mar 13, 2011 4:59 AM MST reply actions  

Amare was the year before that

He turned out pretty good. Other than a few higher lottery picks that we totally whiffed on (Clark and Lopez), we haven’t been in very good position to draft guys that would definitely develop.

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 13, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

the other thing

ive heard this is a pretty weak draft, so unless we are totally rebuilding its probably not worth giving up too much for a shot at a top 5 pick

by suns13 on Mar 13, 2011 8:33 AM MST reply actions  

Good article, Wil

You had me until you blindsided me with a Nash trade. I really like Derrick Williams too. He’s gonna be a stud PF in the future and is pretty “NBA ready” right now.

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 13, 2011 11:45 AM MST reply actions  

i hope nash

stays for the last year of his contract but i would not blame him if he left.

Lopez problem is just confidence and rhythm but i think he will be traded like he nearly got traded at the deadline.

i would like for us to aquire a SG like C.Lee for the rockets straight swap with Lopez.
and lots of PF i like are ZRandolph,PMilsap,AJefferson,K humphries. and my scouting darkhorse Darrell Arthur Pf from Memphis.

im sure there will be a lot of changes this off season, a lot.

"Da Suns’ Bench. Call them Victoria’s Secret — all kinds of wonderful support."

by phxuk: Ap on Mar 13, 2011 12:54 PM MST reply actions  

If I were Nash (My fave player of all time-right up there with KJ) I WOULD LEAVE!!!

I’d go to a team with an ownership that was trying to win.

So pissed at our FO.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 13, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

There is actually a rumor floating around out there

That our FO plans to do exactly what you mentioned in this article…The rumor states that Nash and his agent have quietly expressed his wishes to be traded after this season, and that we will package Nash/Lopez for a top 5 pick during the draft so we can draft either Kemba or Jimmer, both of whom we are reportedly very interested in.

I think this makes a lot of sense for us going forward, and if we can also manage to keep our first round pick that’s high enough to draft a quality PF or C, then we could address both of our biggest needs

by 7footer on Mar 13, 2011 5:39 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

I don't understand why Nash would want to be traded?

What are the chances of us sending him to a contender for a top 5 pick?

If Nash wanted out we’d have to work out a 3-team deal because I’m sure he would only want to go to a contender and if we can’t do that than he might as well stay here.

 I’ve heard those rumors before and they may have some truth to them. Unless Nash has had it with our FO than he might not give them another chance. However, I do believe that our FO wants to contend again. I think the Brooks trade and the Milsap trade that almost went down have proved that. They still have a shot at adding some good pieces next season which is why it’s important we make the playoffs, so players want to come here. Of course having no season next year can change things.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 13, 2011 7:58 PM MST up reply actions  

True, but isn't a top 5-10 pick good value?

Especially when he’s 37 with a history of back and now groin/pelvis issues. If we could draft the potential franchise PG of the future with that pick, I say that’s a huge win! Yes it’s still a gamble, but it’s a gamble I’d certainly be willing to take.

by 7footer on Mar 13, 2011 8:37 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t see Jimmer or Kemba as franchise PGs of the future.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 13, 2011 9:29 PM MST up reply actions  

At best they seem like Monta Ellis-like PGs.

I doubt they’d even be as god as Monta.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 13, 2011 9:29 PM MST up reply actions  

*goo

I certainly don’t think Ellis is a god.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Mar 13, 2011 9:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I disagree...

Jimmer and Kemba could be great, good, mediocre, or possibly even bad at the next level. All we can go by are their skill sets and their success at their position up to this point. Do you believe anyone pegged the small, unathletic kid from Santa Clara college as a two-time MVP and future shoe-in hall of famer? Of course not, and yet our inevitable search for our next franchise PG must still commence sooner then later with just as much chance and uncertainty as it did when we originally drafted Nash.

Jimmer to me has that special ability that makes me think he has a chance. Not only has he shown adequate ability as a facilitator despite the lack of talent around him, but he has uncanny shooting ability and range. Likewise, Kemba Walker has that “it” factor…The intangible and immeasurable clutch-ness and leadership to go along with his awesome speed and underrated passing skills.

Only time will tell if either of them amount to greatness, or even mediocrity in the NBA. However, they both pass my eye-test; and it doesn’t surprise me at all that they’ve reportedly drawn the interest of our FO. I do believe landing either one of them via trade for Nash would certainly be a worthwhile gamble. We have very little to lose at this point, and the potential to win big in the long term. Just my opinion, of course.

by 7footer on Mar 13, 2011 11:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

As for trading him to a contender for a top 5 pick...

I think it’s of the assumption that it would be a three team deal, involving a contender or a team that’s only a legit PG away from contending. I can think of many scenarios that would work.

by 7footer on Mar 13, 2011 8:41 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

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