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Postgame Video Suns vs. Warriors feat. Steve Nash, Channing Frye, Marcin Gortat And Alvin Gentry

Here's your postgame video from tonight's Suns win over the Warriors. The audio and other technical stuff is coming together nicely. Note that I don't have the skill (or time/patience) to do any fancy editing so what you get is what I see. 

Tonight we have Alvin Gentry's postgame press conference. He was happy with the win but still talked about the lack of a consistent 48-minute effort. He answered my question about Brooks as well.

Steve Nash talked about his health, the return of Channing Frye, and the impact of all the roster moves on the second unit.

Channing Frye talked about his favorite movies and plans for the weekend his return to the floor and how he felt.

Marcin Gortat discussed the game and the mass of Polish fans you came to his first even NBA Polish Night to see him receive an award from his country.

Star-divide

 

 

Game Notes

1st Qtr

  • Vince is smiling, so everything should be good
  • Frye passed up his first chance to shoot...he knew he should have shot it
  • Took his second look, missed it but it wasn't horrible
  • Curry looks taller to me...did he grow?
  • Quick T for Steve...he said some things he shouldn't have
  • They are doubling Grant in the post, but Suns haven't made them pay yet
  • Impressive block from Udoh. Robin had that ball in the rim with two hands
  • Robin's skill-level might be lacking but he's bringing the energy at least
  • Energy is high on the court and in the building
  • 19-9 Suns. Sweet....if only they had played with this kind of desperation all season long
  • Lou did a Lou thing and it was awesome
  • The entire country of Poland is up cheering as Gortat goes full court slam after a steal
  • Gortat out-Lou'd Lou for that ball
  • 27-20, Suns after being down 7-2 to start. Pretty good D

2nd Qtr

  • Brooks time...
  • MP passed up two contested looks and ended up driving and dumping off to Gortat for a dunk...hmmm
  • Al Thorton and Hakim Warrick on the court, the overall IQ of the game just dropped 10 points
  • Dan Crawford likes to call offensive fouls. That's five on the Warriors so far. Several could have gone the other way
  • Suns running a lot of offense through Warrick at the elbow
  • Weird timeout from Gentry in the middle of the play with 7 sec left on the shot clock. Gortat had the ball in the block with a double team
  • I locked my keys in my car before the game. Thanks to the Phoenix PD community assist guy for the assist breaking in
  • No dunk on that Dudley dunk attempt. Close though. Guessing he will claim it as a dunk number 7
  • There you go, Brooks drove and dumped it off to Warrick
  • Brooks came off that screen and was so wide open he had to shoot...he made the three
  • Starters back in. 39-30, Suns
  • Mr. Smile is about to check back in. He's 0-6 so far
  • Dudley was so open on that shot he missed it. I totally understand that. It happens to me when I play tennis. A soft shot comes over and you have too much time to set up and think about it and then hit it long or into the net
  • Yes, I just compared Dudley to me but I think he's earned it
  • Carter now 0-8 after missing a layup and a break away dunk off a steal
  • Floor crew wiping up tire marks with towels...tire marks left by a Gorilla drive-by in a mini-hummer
  • Vince is having an off night shooting but at least he's doing other things (1 reb, 1 ast)
  • I was chatting w/ Grant before the game about how it sucks to get old. Mentioned my sore knees. He just looked at me and said, "no, it's all up here" and pointed to his head. I felt like a wuss.
  • 50-40 (or 38, depending on the review of that last put back dunk from D. Wright) Suns

3rd Qtr

  • 50-38
  • Gortat starting the 2nd half again
  • I have a bit of popcorn stuck in my teeth, hate that
  • The days of high scoring Suns/Warriors games are gone. Now the Suns just lock them up. 38% shooting for GSW
  • Funny thing, since Warrick isn't starting the Suns haven't made one bad in bounds pass for a turnover. Weird
  • Vince!! Now 1-10
  • Keep shooting Vince! 1-11
  • Got it btw...the popcorn bit
  • Gentry pissed at Gortat for not setting a screen, came out to half court and yelled at him and said, "Last time I'm telling you. Last time."
  • Ekpe Udoh has VERY long arms. I bet he can dust the blades on the ceiling fan without the use of a step stool
  • Vince is not smiling any more
  • Warrick in for Frye...Channing has played well on D
  • Vince getting some mojo back by posting up Ellis
  • Playing the Hammer Time thing w/ Gortat's head on MC Hammer's body dancing. The 300 Poles goes nuts
  • Suns go ultra-small to match the Warriors. Warrick playing C for Suns, Lou for Warriors. Don Nelson is thrilled
  • Lou!!! Behind the back dribble and then pass to Thorton for a dunk
  • 84-65

4th Qtr

  • Josh Childress talking to Warrick about that blown rotation. Good luck, Josh
  • 84-68. Too soon to start the recap? 10:50 left
  • Keith Smart giving his team the bidness after that blown transition defense. Dorrell Wright and Acie Law taking the brunt.
  • Hey Brooks fans, how long are you going to stick with your guy?
  • 88-73, 8:53 to go. Recap?
  • Ooops, my bad. Starters having to come back in as lead shrunk to 10 with 7:45 to go.
  • Make that eight
  • 96-85 with 5:52
  • Channing Frye, not a roll man
  • Frye has played very well though
  • 102-91, 4:00
  • With Ellis on the bench, the Warriors are defending better and moving without the ball. He can have a Melo-like effect
  • Ellis coming back in...I think that helps the Suns. 104-93, 3:04
  • It's nothing personal towards Brooks, he just hasn't given the Suns what they needed when they gave up so much to get him
  • Dudley goes 0-2 at the line
  • Wright w/ the three...104-97, 50 sec
  • Warriors defended that high screen and roll well. Ball ended up in Nash's hands with just a few seconds on the clock. Nash drove and Curry fouled him
  • 106-97, 43 sec

Comment 162 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Frye is back...

and so is my confidence :D (I know I’m bad)

Eddie: ...You can't start relaxing.
Gary: Oh Who's relaxing? I'm intense. I really am.
Eddie: You're always intense...
Gary: So who you're accusing to be relaxing here?
Eddie: The guys out there in the white jersey!

by Dickwan Sasser on Mar 18, 2011 11:00 PM MST reply actions  

remeber when all he could do was shoot threes?

got to hand it to that guy, he really expanded his game when they needed it.

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Mar 19, 2011 1:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah this is Frye version 2.03 with the brand new service pack 3

I think he just has much more room to for maneuver since Amare’s departure. Just like LaMarcus Aldridge improved his game over the past seasons, so did Frye. So if I remember wright, he used to play closer to the basket than now. Anyway this brand new Frye is lethal for Suns opponents and that’s the way I like it.

By the way I’m soooooo happy to have Bender and Eddy back as announcers. Watching Suns game with them as commentator is just hmm hmm hmm!

Eddie: ...You can't start relaxing.
Gary: Oh Who's relaxing? I'm intense. I really am.
Eddie: You're always intense...
Gary: So who you're accusing to be relaxing here?
Eddie: The guys out there in the white jersey!

by Dickwan Sasser on Mar 19, 2011 9:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Bender sounds like he's starting to go a bit senile, no offense to him.

But I prefer Tom and Eddy. That’s just me though.

Anyways, Frye has definitely improved all aspects of his game. He’s improved his post game, rebounding, and defense. He’s an all-around better player now and definitely earning his keep. In fact, he, Gortat, Dudley, Hill, and Nash embody all the positives of this team. Now if everyone else can do at least half of what those guys do, we’d be solid.

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 6:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I prefer Al Mccoy

McCoy with EJ would be ideal.

Leander is wack. Hack job catch phrases, can barely keep up with the action.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 11:05 PM MST up reply actions  

you're both right

EJ McCoy and Tom C are coolio with the flow. the rest…well let’s just say it may be time to start another coalition.

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Mar 20, 2011 12:58 AM MST up reply actions  

I love Nash

This win is good but is not the long playoff run we need.

IM JUST ASKING ONE THING TO THIS TEAM: DONT FKN LET NASHY or BAMF GO PLEASE

´´In Nash we trust´´

by Lino Canaan on Mar 19, 2011 6:35 AM MST reply actions  

Just change Signature

Do not let Steve Nash and Grant Hill go away, please.
Otherwhise im not buying any tickets from you Saver.

by Lino Canaan on Mar 19, 2011 6:39 AM MST up reply actions  

you sir...

are a wise man

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Mar 20, 2011 1:04 AM MST up reply actions  

“hey Brooks guys, how long are you going to stick with your guy?”

as long as he’s injured, he gets a pass. Just like Lopez, right? In the give-and-go on azcentral.com, he mentioned a few times that he’s not the same player when he’s injured. Whether that means he’s a wuss or not, I don’t know. But he’s not healthy.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 6:48 AM MST reply actions  

So the team traded a first round pick and Dragic for a guy who’s too injured to contribute during the stretch run and now either gets paid or walks?

hmmmm

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 8:32 AM MST up reply actions  

i know

its awesome isn’t it?

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 9:50 AM MST up reply actions  

Is that what you think?

I mean you know stuff since you are around them. But it seems to me that ridding themselves of Goran was a move for the future. The new FO wanted to shed themselves of the decisions of the old FO and trading the clearly slumping Dragic for Brooks wasn’t too bad an idea. Plus they clear space for a new PG or SG since that is, apparently, what we are going after.

Not saying it was genius, but its not the end of the world either.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions  

also

there’s huge difference between Lopez and Brooks…about a foot of difference actually.

Lopez, still on a rookie contract for another year, has a far more valuable and rare combination of potential. 7 footers (and I still say that to truly appreciate his size you have to see him up close next to other bigs like Gortat) with his combination of potential don’t come around very often.

He might bust out, but the upside is far too great to give up on.

Brooks, even when he’s right, has something that is much easier to find — small guards who can score. There are many of those guys out there.

You can’t compare them as players alone. You have to look at their contract situations and their replacement value.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 8:37 AM MST up reply actions  

I admire you. You have deep faith in ability of Lopez.

Wish the Suns can use it. But what happens i Lopez stay on this label like today. All fns call to trade Lopez . How long we should wait for better Lopea play?

by roby07 on Mar 19, 2011 9:39 AM MST up reply actions  

we'll see

I think they very well might trade him this summer to try and get a PF…they almost did at the deadline to get Millsap and think that deal could still be there this summer. Or some other one…maybe the Warriors will want to move David Lee’s salary. I don’t know and w/ the new CBA it’s very hard to predict what this market is going to look like.

We’ll just have to wait and see how Robin pans out.

He’s not played consistently this season but there’s so much potential there and the guy is still so young. He’s only had one stretch in his career to consistently start and play big minutes and he did very well. Even in a game like last night, he played well but was only on the court for 8 minutes but had 6 points and 4 rebounds.

At this point, as with Dragic, I am not opposed to trading him IF the deal is right. Then we will just see how he does over the next few years.

Obviously, the problem w/ the Dragic deal was the terms of the deal itself…hopefully if they do move Robin they will do better and get more back (and give up less). I believe there’s a decent market for Robin. Guys like him don’t grow on trees.

I am fine with Gortat as the center of the future — again, I like him a lot — but he’s best suited to be next to a PF that can create more inside and as long as we understand that he’s going to be undersized against a lot of opponents: Bynum, Dalembert, Cousins, Okafor, Chandler, Bogut, Lopez (B and R), Jordan, Gasol (M), Noah…

Ideally the Suns would have an inside oriented PF to pair with Marcin and Frye which provides some options.

Personally, I am also intrigued by putting Bargnani next to Gortat as well but that’s a whole ’nother topic.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions  

Did you think that sometimes he can played more? Even with Gortat?

In my point of view coach doesn’t want to try this option. And second.Like you said Lopez first minutes were good. Why he didn’t play more? It could kill any motivation for Lopez. I live in Poland, but it for me first is the Suns win an after this I observe how Gortat played. I can apprieciate other player and I always say if Gortat will has poor game. I ask you cause you see this team day by day. It must be a problem with , how to say, “coaching”. I wrote earlier that Suns bench played poor basket. Why AG doesn’t want to change or observe other options in games when Suns have 25 or even more points advantage. You are expierienced , You saw a lot of games. I think you also have some own thoughts.

by roby07 on Mar 19, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

I really don’t like Robin and Marcin on the floor together. In theory you could see it against a couple of really big team — it will be interesting to see if Gentry tries that against the Lakers – but overall, someone ends up covering a four who is much quicker and offensively, the floor spacing is off which messes up the pick and roll and neither is good enough in the post to run the offense that way.

Last night was a bad matchup for Robin. The Warriors didn’t have Beidrins (ankle) went very small. Gortat had a great game last night. He was highly motivated w/ the big crowd of Poles on hand and it was a great team for him to play against.

As for the bench, I don’t know what else Gentry can do. He has the roster he has and the main issue I think is Warrick’s inconsistency (which isn’t new, he’s been his way his entire career) and Childress not being a good fit b/c he’s too small to play the four but plays like a four and not a wing player b/c he loves to be near the paint.

They traded Dragic for Brooks to try and solve this b/c last year Brooks was aggressive and scored a ton of points. They want Brooks to play that way and be that aggressive, shot-making guy but he’s just not done it. Maybe it’s his ankle or maybe he’s just not that guy when coming off the bench. Whatever the reason, it’s not worked and now it’s probably too late.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

So the only consistency with Warrick is his inconsistency! Ha.

I would love to see Milsap come here and if had to trade Lopez for that I would do it in a heartbeat. Lee? Eh. He has a great upside and we would finally get the rebounding core we needed in Gortat and Lee but his defense is atrocious.

I know Brooks hasn’t panned out but I think it is because its too soon. We can’t expect him to get with the program in only a month or two. It took Rich a while and has taken Carter a while. Pietrus is faster but its because he is mostly doing defense. Chilly just doesn’t see the floor enough. The problem is that the FO should have realized that. If Brooks was going to be around for another year it would be fine, but his likely departure makes the move somewhat suspect given what we have left.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:14 PM MST up reply actions  

you had till the last few comments

sure, Gortat is 1-2 inches shorter than some of those other guys, but he’s strong enough to handle that difference in height and slightly weight. I don’t get the “undersized” thing with him. I really don’t. He knows angles, plays great positional defense, has good feet, good touch around the rim and has shown a very consistent 15 footer with a high release. He won’t be an all-star, but only 2 of those guys get to be each year.

And then the Bargnani love… ugh. I’ve never liked his game at all.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Why not Bargnani?

Yes, his D is worse . But his ability to score is pretty nice. Would you see Lopez in this position near Gortat?. Today Frye and Gortat play pretty nice basket. Problem is bench. Lopez could help a lot. Maybe he played good basket last year cause Amare ? Hard for me to say. But is it really Frye PF, the Suns need?

by roby07 on Mar 19, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah

I am not sold on Bargnani by any means but the guy can put up points and he’s never played never to a defensive oriented, rebounding center like Gortat (or hopefully Lopez).

Bargnani can spread the floor like Frye but is much, much more dangerous off the dribble and in the post.

Defensively, he sucks. But I am not convinced that Toronto isn’t just a bad franchise and I would like to see him somewhere else. It’s a risk for sure so I am by no means convinced…but I am intrigued by him b/c he’s so damn skilled on offense.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 12:01 PM MST up reply actions  

It is interesting.

What about Amir Johnson. Seen any of him? The guy has been great the second half of the season. Lets try to pick him up!

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

you know

I’ve not seen him recently so I guess he might have improved of late…I don’t catch many Raptors games for some reason :)

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

from what I recall last summer

Amir Johnson was first on the list of bargain replacements for Amare. Suns were going to offer about what they offered Warrick, but then Toronto gave him 34 million on day 1 of free agency. At the same time, Darko freakin Milicic got 20 mill and Amare got his full 100 mill. Dollars were flying. Warrick was next on that bargain list and the Suns snapped him up (probably for a bit more than they wanted, but given the other contracts that day it wasn’t bad).

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 20, 2011 6:47 AM MST up reply actions  

you see it against bigger, longer guys when he gives up offensive rebounds and like Amare, has a harder time on the pick and roll against big guys who can recover and change his shot. Unlike Amare, he can’t face up and take those guys off the dribble. So yeah, he’s not Amare. Shocking….In general, he’s not going to play as well against those bigger guys which is fine, they aren’t that many of them.

He is who he is, which is a very solid role player who will be much better (like most role players) when surrounded by better players. Look at a guy like Kenrick Perkins. Obviously, they are different players but I think they can have similar impact on their teams. You don’t build around those guys but you want them on your team.

The mid-range game is improving but I wouldn’t call him Kurt Thomas either. I think he’s more like a Marcus Camby who will hit some shots if you leave him open but at this point doesn’t have full confidence in it either. He passes up a lot of those shots he could be taking — that’s a good thing btw. Like most players, he’s going to have good nights but he’s still very much a work in progress.

It is something he can certainly improve and I hope he does.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions  

it would

be a solid combo but certainly not one good enough to carry a team w/o some other very good players

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:34 PM MST up reply actions  

True enough.

So I guess my ruminations are all leading to this understanding (let me know where I am at on this):
The FO has goals at the end of the season and into the summer and the following are factors to consider…
1) Lockout. Hopefully not but the signs don’t look great. What does this do for the league in the long run? If the players strike will the same thing happen that happened last time with a big shuffle of players?

2) Carter. Assuming no lockout. Do we keep him? Trade him for something? The dude doesn’t seem to want to play anymore. Let him go?

3) Warrick and Childress. Keep em? Trade em? I want to see Chill have some more minutes but I don’t care for Warrick except for his highlight reel. But what can we get for them? This brings me to…

4) Lopez. I am with you for the most part, Seth. If we can keep Lopez and turn him into a great starter with 25 a game I am all for it. I don’t want to trade him for anything less than a good PF. That said, if we can get Milsap or even (maybe…) Lee then I think we gotta strike while the iron is hot. (again assuming no lockout)

5) Brooks. Yea or nay?

6) Most importantly, Nash. The rumors on the boards are not great. Some informants are clearly saying that the FO wants to trade Nash in the summer. Do you see this happening? Seems like a suicide move for the FO frankly. Perhaps they hope that the lockout and contract negotiations will distract fans or will allow them to bring in other talent that will attract a fan base. Either seems iffy to me. I personally dont want to see Nash go ever…but thats me.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

David Lee?

The guy can’t defend.

I don't care who starts anymore...

by Spit_Fire on Mar 19, 2011 7:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh yeah

7) We need to pick up a solid PF somewhere. Options are limited (unless we can get Milsap or Lee). I like the idea of Amir Johnson or Kris Humphries but I am not sure those guys will be available. We always talk about Josh Smith but will he be available? Seems like if the Hawks make yet another first round exit the fans will be out for blood and will want a major change. They can afford Smith AND Horford AND Johnson. Whats gonna give?

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

only two thoughts…

1) No one knows what’s going w/ happen w/ the lock out and new CBA so I don’t think anyone has solid plans b/c that’s such a big unknown

2) I seriously doubt VC comes back and seriously doubt there’s a taker for that contract. I think he gets bought out for the $4m. I am fairly sure the timing is such that the Suns have to buy him out before the CBA expires on July 31. Could be wrong on that.

3) Bonus — my gut says that Nash won’t be back next year. Take that for what my gut is full of…crap.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I keep asking this but..

Isn’t there a possibility that we could trade VC over the summer to a team looking to dump salary?

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 19, 2011 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

this

summer before July 31 the Suns would have to take back at least $15m in salary.

What players do you want?

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Baron Davis or Eddy Curry would be nice

But in all seriousness, I know it wouldn’t be an easy thing to work out, but there’s a possibility?

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 19, 2011 8:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Ah. Good thoughts.

Its nice to have you on here so consistently! We (well I) have missed having interaction with you.

1) Gah. This thing is going to give me ulcers, I know it.
2) Ok. At least he will be gone and we can replace his minutes with someone else.
3) *sigh – I hoped you weren’t going to say that. I am sad. What can we possibly get for him though? Surely the FO wouldn’t do that just to do it. And how are they going to sell this to fans? Nash is like an Arizona superstar.

  1. - Thoughts on the draft?

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 4:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I haven’t started looking much at the draft. I am starting to talk to people and get my head around guys and watch some games in the tournament but I’m not a big college basketball guy so I don’t really start looking at it until after the season’s over and the team starts bringing guys in for workouts.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 7:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah me neither...

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 20, 2011 6:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes, Brooks trade isn't looking so bright.

It doesn’t make sense anymore either. I don’t know why they gave up on Dragic so soon. Maybe it’s some ego thing and they want to develop their guys that they pick in the draft and not Kerr’s guys. They were going to trade Lopez too, but that deal didn’t fall through of course.

With that said, I never did consider Dragic a part of the core nor lopez, but I would’ve liked to see Goran get the rest of the season to prove himself. My opinion has changed back to what it was when I first saw the trade on the news. They gave up on him too early.

However, this trade will be good for Dragic. I feel like he needs to toughen up a bit.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions  

you all do realize

that Brooks is more with his minutes than Dragic did, right? And that if we’re going to give credit to Lopez for his one good half-season stretch in 3 years as being thanks to “the only time he got big minutes”, we can’t just dismiss Brooks “one good stretch” of one and a half good years of starting as being a “fluke”.

I get what Seth is saying, that little score-first PGs are easier to find than 7-footers, but we can’t completely discount Brooks’ success while also heralding Lopez’ success that didn’t nearly rival Brooks’.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 11:26 AM MST up reply actions   2 recs

there is no more time

that’s the problem….

They made the trade to help get to the playoffs and that’s all but failed. Not he’s a restricted free agent and they gave up a pick to get him. That’s the standard for the trade…the only saving grace with Brooks is if they can keep him on a reasonable deal (which to me is in the 3 yrs / $15m range) and he comes back and plays well next year.

I hope he does

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with your general thesis, that it was a bad trade overall, as I felt at the time..

that talent wise, meh, and other intangibles push it to the wrong side of the ledger.

What I am not that concerned about, however, is how much we may have to pay him. The “upside” of the trade is that with with him not really excelling, I don’t think he will get huge offers. So in a sense there was a “hedge” built into the trade.
 
And if he ultimately turns out to be better than Dragic, no big…So ya, it was tactically a bad trade, (and kind of emotionally tough as Goran has a place in our hearts) but if AB ultimately turns out to be a good player…than not that big of a deal..and there have been some small positives in just changing it up a bit.

And I don’t think, you can put our apparent failure to make the playoffs on him. As you have noted a few times, Frye turns out to be pretty close to our MVP, and we just didn’t get much from a host of players (most notably Hak, but also MP, Lopez and yes to an extent AB), in Frye’s absence. And of course, Nash was gone too or rendered somewhat ineffective. So losing Frye has turned out to have swamped a host of player moves, and small performance variations.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

I don’t put it on him alone but again, he was brought in to help and hasn’t. I don’t think there’s any question about that and since we paid to bring him in, the trade hasn’t worked.

It’s not that “he’s failed” as much as the move the team made failed. If they had traded for Brooks straight up and Aaron had one more year left on his rookie deal it would be a wash this year with an unknown moving forward (who’s going to be better next year, Brooks or Dragic?).

But the terms of the deal put the onus on him being more productive than Goran to justify the trade. I separate the trade from Brooks. It’s on the team for not making the playoffs.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 1:12 PM MST up reply actions  

and to fair to Brooks

one of the things we said at the time of the deal is that we would find out how much of Goran’s struggles was playing w/ that group vs/ the better balanced 2nd unit from last season vs. him playing bad.

If Brooks came in and played well with the same group that Goran struggled with it would put more of the blame on Goran. Since Brooks has also struggled with the same group that is evidence that it’s not an easy group for a PG to play with.

So maybe once Brooks is playing with a better group he will improve. I certainly hope so. I don’t think he’s this bad.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 1:17 PM MST up reply actions  

ya fair enuf all around...

Brooks hasn’t been a panacea and I was never that happy about the move. It was great to see what he did v. Boston, but he hasn’t translated that into much else.

I think overall, and this is true through about all the moves we’ve seen, when you get new players in who are either young or have never succeeded at a huge level in the NBA a lot is about how you position them and how much you need out of them. Last year with a few more really solid players on the team, unproven and young players consistently delivered a lot. This year, we have needed too much from those unproven young and/or role players and they have delivered a lot less.

Like for e,g, after the Orlando trade, we had a brief short run of good play, when we shortened the bench and went with our holdovers from the previous year. We were better when we worked in the new guys more slowly and added fewer new pieces at once.

In the case of AB, a guy who has had an off and injured year didn’t need the pressure of transforming the whole bench, and certainly didn’t need the pressure of holding the fort to an extent with Nash and Frye down. (another reason why this wasn’t a great trade).

And overall, you need to wonder why, given this, and where nurturing great play out of role players is such a timely and nuanced exercise, you would go out and replace so many of last years role players who we had worked so hard at finding a role and a rotation for, (and ultimately had succeeded perfectly) with just a bunch of new ones, who would need the same or more time to be worked in and who were bound to fail without the support of enough, established veteran stars, around them.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions  

new GM

that’s why…

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

ya but a lot of the makeover came during the Sarver transition..

not sure if that counts as a new GM or a meddlesome and over his head, owner.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

right

well, I guess I meant new leadership replacing Kerr and D-Griff. That’s Sarver, Babby and Blanks.

Although to be fair, there were a lot of us that like the moves Sarver made this summer and were optimistic about the team.

No one hated the JChill deal and very few hated the Warrick deal (and I still don’t hate it b/c it’s not that much money).

And very few people blamed Sarver for not offering Amare a fully guaranteed $100m 5 yr deal.

And while Lou was popular and ended getting less than he was asking for from the Suns, he’s not the answer or difference.

Of them all, it was probably the Hedo deal that was the worst. The idea that he could play PF was flawed and then the idea that he would handle the ball more and take pressure of Steve was flawed.

Mostly though, the idea that he would play motivated and hard all the time turned out to be flawed. Personally, I think that’s a bit overstated but he certainly was/is no Grant Hill.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

To me..

I haven’t missed Amare that much, as in the fullness of time, the timing of his departure (day 1 of free agency) and the sheer joy he exhibits with being in NY and appearing on Letterman……says he was not “keepable”.

As for the rest, I didn’t immediately hate the moves, as its a bit of kid in the candy store stuff, like oh well how about all these new shiny toys, and look at all the assets we now have……It wasn’t hard to like the moves in a fantasy basketball kind of way.

I think you are dead right about Hedo, that was exactly the problem, so the theory and reality were mismatched.

But in retrospect, what did we gain by replacing Barbosa/dragic/lou/Jrich with Hak/Chil/MP/AB/VC? nothing and I think we lost a lot of chemistry, and went through an enormous upheval whose maximum upside was status quo after ditching 10-15 W’s during the transition, and all along facing the huge downside that the chemistry was never recoverable..Of course, this all begs the question of whether the big fall off in Dragic and Lopez’s play would have happened if the surrounding pieces had remained the same.

Though this was never on the table, I will always wonder where we would have been if we had merely traded Amare for Gortat. Obviously, Orlando would have gone for that (needed some throw ins for cap space) and quite aside from whether it was possible, if you take last years team, and merely replace that one piece, where are we? yes we lose a lot of offence, but we make up for it on defence. Gortat is no Amare, but I think with that one piece we would have done quite well and proved that we could have succeeded reasonably well without Amare if we could have found proper complimentary pieces to replace him with.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Amare for Gortat

It’s an interesting exercise for sure since that’s essentially where we ended up but also lost JRich, Clark and LB in the process.

I doubt it would have gone over at the time though but an interesting thought.

Bottom line, if you go back and look over the Nash years, the amount of roster-churn is staggering.

After Nash and Hill the guy w/ the 3rd longest tenure as a Sun is Robin Lopez and he’s in his 3rd yr.

If you listen to Nash’s response from last night, I think this is what he’s talking about. It’s a lot of change.

Also from last season, lets not discount how much better Goran and the bench played once Frye was moved out of his starting job and started playing w/ that group.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 4:02 PM MST up reply actions  

If you listen to Nash’s response from last night, I think this is what he’s talking about. It’s a lot of change.

I believe this is the reason he would leave in the off-season. Too many times he’s had to take a team all the way to the top and get so close only to have the management tear it all down and make him start over. Who knows whether we could have had a ring if Nash actually got to lead the same team only with added pieces for a consecutive year? Unless there is a lock-out he could just retire.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 7:32 PM MST up reply actions  

again

you are right when you look at the two players out of context. But the Suns didn’t trade a player and a 1st round pick to get Robin.

It’s the deal I have the problem with, much more than Brooks. Brooks has to play very well to justify the trade and he hasn’t. Robin (who is much younger than Brooks) is a developmental project.

Brooks, but the nature of his age and experience and most importantly the deal that brought him here, has a higher standard to reach.

Btw – Scottie Reynolds is in the D-league and playing on NBA TV today. 13 points and 6 assists….and could have been had for free.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Now you're talking!

I’m sure my love of Scottie is unique in these parts, but I really do believe he has what it takes. I thought he was so much better than Dowdell during summer league, and now seeing how well Dowdell is playing for us, it makes me wonder if Scottie would’ve been our back-up by now earning 10-15 minutes a game.

I was pretty much neutral regarding the Dragic/Brooks trade, but that is beginning to look like a mistake (if for no other reason than losing a mid to late 1st rounder which could’ve been packaged to move up in the draft). I really wonder if we would’ve been better served by signing Reynolds for free and just keeping Dragic until the offseason if we couldn’t get a better deal.

by 7footer on Mar 19, 2011 3:36 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

fair enough

except that Brooks didn’t trade himself for Dragic and a 1st. All he did was jump on a plane with, apparently, a bum ankle.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 20, 2011 6:58 AM MST up reply actions  

ankle

Aren’t we a bit concerned that he’s still being bothered by an ankle he sprained in November?

Either the ankle is worse then just a bad sprain (which the Suns should have picked up on during the physical) or he’s just not able to play at his peak level unless he’s 100%. And no NBA player is at 100% during a season.

The more I think about this ankle, the more worrisome it is.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 20, 2011 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

I know Brooks needs more time.

The FO made the move as if they were confident Brooks could do what he does best(create his own shot and score) right away. He hasn’t and were not in the playoffs, so so far this trade is a failure. We might as well kept Dragic who also just needed more time and we could have kept our draft pick as well.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

By the way

I haven’t changed my position on Brooks, it’s mainly the deal or the trade itself I don’t agree with anymore. I’m not going to stand by and say it’s a good trade and just wait it out because it’s not. The FO made the trade in order to push us into the playoffs and it hasn’t worked out.

Now Brooks is a proven player who needs time just like Dragic did only Goran is not a proven leader and player like Brooks. Aaron I believe has already reached his potential which is a lot to ask for from a player. That’s a good accomplishment on his part. Dragic hasn’t yet and as far as his ceiling goes I don’t know. He’s got the making to be a combo guard, but he also always had confidence problems. I think that will affect him for his entire career and keep him from reaching his potential. Goran has the potential to be the better player, however I doubt he’ll ever reach it. I could be wrong and when it comes to the trade I would have been willing to give him a shot. I hope Brooks can get well soon and be a good player next year.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions  

I am not sure

why Brooks isn’t more aggressively looking for his shot, which is what caught everyone’s eye during his one good year in Houston.

But has a PG, I’m not impressed w/ the decision-making. I just re-watched his minutes from last night’s game. There’s not one play he made that I was impressed with….OK, maybe half of one.

On the pick and roll, time and again either his timing or his decisions was bad and so you see the play stall and then reset and someone like Warrick or Pietrus would end up with the ball at the end of the clock.

If I have time, I’ll do some screen shots and show ya’ll some of those plays which when you watch in slo-mo you can see the open man he missed or see how he held the ball too long and the guy who was open ended up being covered by the time the ball was delivered. Maybe that improves with time, but again, what he was brought here to do was score and he’s not looking for his shot at all or he’s simply unable to create the separation he needs.

I do think the Orlando first half was a fluke. Howard was sagging way off and giving him a ton of space. They adjusted their coverage to more aggressively hedge the screen and roll and shut him down. When teams hedge that screen and roll, the roll man goes either he’s open or a third defender has to come help and someone else is open.

We’ve watch Nash against all types of screen and roll defenses for years and he picks them apart. Brooks hasn’t shown the ability to do that so as long as teams are taking away his space to shoot they are shutting him down.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

He hasn’t played how we and the FO have wanted him to. His poor decision making and passing is expected, but not his lack of aggressiveness in creating his own shot. He hasn’t really made a difference. I still think he’s a better player than Goran and I believe with time he may return to his Houston form.

The trade was a failure for the short run. In the long run I hope it turns out to be a good one. Just like the J-Rich trade. I was all for that one, but it was a failure in the first year. Had they not made it and kept Bell and Diaw we probably make the playoffs regardless of Amar’e getting hurt. However, the following year Dudley and J-Rich played really well, so it all worked out.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions  

hope you

are right…but having seen them both, I think Goran has more upside if for no other reason than he’s bigger and can defend better and can play both guard positions.

Brooks has to be a much, much better scorer to make up for that. And again, even in his big year in Houston, he shot the ball well from three but otherwise wasn’t very efficient scorer, didn’t score in the pain, and had a horribly low assist rate.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

let's not forget

that Brooks is averaging more assists than Goran ever did…

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 20, 2011 7:00 AM MST up reply actions  

OK, one example

One this pick and roll, Brooks does a great job splitting the hedge. When a guard splits the the defenders like this it should be an easy score. He’s going to the basket along w/ the roll man and both of their defenders are now out of the play.

This forces the help defender to come over and leave his man in the corner. Now you have Brooks and Gortat vs the one help defender plus the wide open man from the corner (Warrick). It’s essentially 3-on-1 basketball.

As you see above, Vlad Rad, has to sag off and try and defend two guys. At this point here, Brooks has room to pull up and shoot the wide open shot, he can hit Warrick who is cutting in baseline uncontested for a dunk. Or he can dribble the ball at Vald and make him commit and then pass to Gortat.

What he does is pass too soon to Gortat and this happens.

Vlad is able to adjust to cut off Gortat and force a contested shot from Marcin that misses.

Just one example.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

Of course you're right.

But they need more practice. Besides Marcin love play with Steve and Brooks also knows what Suns expect for him. You also said he is better scorer. I hope he watches Steve a lot and records all.
I know you said it’s too late.But if he’ll stay in Phoenix next year he need more practice.

by roby07 on Mar 19, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah dammit

Brooks sucks. My mother coulda made that play, as long as it was all in screenshots. I mean, let’s forget all about the fact that this happened in about 2 seconds in real time.

I’m not saying Brooks made a good play because he didn’t. And the offense was terrible (as a unit) when Nash was out and Brooks was starting. Brooks has been playing bad.

But to isolate certain plays and, in screenshot time dissect what he should have done compared to what Nash would do… well, that’s asking a lot I think.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 20, 2011 7:03 AM MST up reply actions  

“just one example”

I wanted to know why the offense was sucking w/ Nash out and Brooks in so I watched him play and there are countless examples, like this, of him not making the right read.

Beyond that, as we all know, he was brought in to shoot the ball aggressively and he’s clearly not doing that either.

But hey, that’s cool. He’s your guy. Stick with him.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 20, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Awesome

Thanks for this post-worthy gem.

Re-sign BAMF.

by brian13 on Mar 20, 2011 11:56 AM MST up reply actions  

So, I agree about the trade being a failure(for the short run) and Brooks not playing like he was expected too.

However, I still think he’s a better player than Dragic.

I will admit that had I known Brooks was going to play like this I wouldn’t have made the trade. Too late though. Hope it works out in the long run.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Completely agree with Alex.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Mar 19, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Not letting previous GM Kerr get credit...

Seems 100% obvious to me. Especially for a rookie GM trying to establish his name. The same could be said of trading J-rich for VC to some extent. Sports management is one big dick wagging contest.

Kerr was sooo proud of Dragic and always defended Lopez draft even with the injuries.

Hopefully the new management is smart enough to make like Kerr and realize the value of Hill and Nash and resign them so that they can retire as Suns.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions  

What is a "dick wagging"?

And, by the way – can someone explain me what’s a “lid”.

“Like a lid is on the basket”. I never understood that sentence.

by Raptorel on Mar 19, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Damn Seth, how old are you, 60?

when they say a lid a is on the basket they are making a metaphor to a lid on a jar. It is used in hoops to describe situations where even the easiest of shots don’t go in or rattle around and go out.

Last night they said it on that ugly series of plays for the Suns when they missed a dunk, three, layups, and two free throws all in a row.

In summary, almost all of American English is comprised of metaphors.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 1:50 PM MST up reply actions  

lid on a jar?

I don’t get it… what are you talking about? What’s a “lid on a jar”. Heck, what’s a “lid”?

by Raptorel on Mar 19, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not your dictionary

the lid is the top part that covers a jar.

What’s a raptorel? illiterate dinosaur?

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not a native English speaker, so I don't know all the English words in the dictionary

So what, a lid is a plastic cover of a jar or what? Silly word to describe bad shooting if you ask me.

by Raptorel on Mar 19, 2011 2:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I figured as much...

When they say “There’s a lid on the basket” it doesn’t just mean bad shooting, it means that easy shots, sometimes by multiple players on the same team aren’t going in. Often times it refers to those shots that rattle around the rim, but somehow pop out.

Many sports metaphors sound silly today because they are 40+ years old and people talk much different today.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:37 PM MST up reply actions  

because one person 40 years ago coined it

another liked it, used it, and all of a sudden it was a regular term.

see, if the first person had said “there’s Saran-wrap on the basket” or “someone left the toilet seat down!”, then history would be different.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 20, 2011 7:11 AM MST up reply actions  

"Dick wagging"

Is a metaphor that describes actions that are done mostly to boost one’s ego and self worth in relation to their competition. It is mostly used for males who are in positions of power (management, politicians)

Imagine drunk guys at a bar trying prove how masculine they are and so drunk that the only thing they can come up with is whipping out their dicks and see who is bigger.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

your gps is off

sorry, but ever watched phx games, when Nash isn’t even in the arena?
disaster, right?! Ever thought, when or what will make Nash quit project ‘rebuilding Suns’ ?!!
Maybe the day they play and lose to SA (apr 13)???
   the Game was build and designed around Nash! No PF ? (Amarie) -no problem!
just like lakers don’t need a point guard, we managed to outrun ‘n outshoot opponents without worrying about rebounds, cause Nash, Hill, Marion, Diaw, Bell, Barbossa were shooting over 60% and 4 of them were 3-point sharp shooters! Only kobe had those numbers, while rest of the league played defense – Our (nasal in polish!) team, was second joy to watch, after kobie’s ‘circus shots’ and 80-point games,…credit to P.Jackson building a team around him.
We never did better!!!! WE kept them guessing….pick’n’roll, 3 or lay-up (no dunks but 120 per game). kobie lost it when Nash got 2nd MVP!!!!!
 And then they thought they can fix getting to finals by changing the whole team (2nd in the world is NOT bad). Shack should contract an incurable decease for what he did to PHX, and then Amari, Richardson – great, but never consistent. and I’ll throw a party for every d’antonios dump he takes as a father, husband, coach,and his fucked up team…
 To sum it up, my loyal friend – all “nasz” team needs
is a quick, fearless rebounder (like Admuson), cause every shot that Nash or Hill makes is gonna at least hit the rim (yes, they’re slipping)
    Aftre Nash there won’t be no PHX team for a couple of years, I don’t care how u figure!!!
          
     But Nash defied the “nigger aspect” of basketball and got some “brothers” to believe in collective effort and find their comfort zone without playing “playground niggerball”
       
      get back at me

by porock on Mar 26, 2011 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

I'll field this one
Hey Brooks guys, how long are you going to stick with your guy?

FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I’m buying one of those BFF necklaces where I wear half and he wears half. Where’s the best place to find those Seth? I saw Robin’s.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Mar 19, 2011 10:42 AM MST up reply actions  

I'll make my judgement of Brooks after the season.

He’s making poor decisions at the moment, like EJ noted last night. We’ve seen what he is capable of vs. OKC, Boston, and Orlando.

What I see is a lack of chemistry where Brooks and his teammates don’t know what the other is going to do.

Despite his poor game last night those 3 FT on the 3 pointer were crucial in the game.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

and another thing

this whole thing about roster turnover making the second unit fail is BS. Total BS. Denver had half its team turned over, lost its superstar, and has gone 9-2 in impressive fashion since. Second units turn over due to trades and free agency all the time. It happens to everyone.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 6:55 AM MST reply actions  

I hope that's not an excuse

that Nash and Gentry are allowing anywhere but interviews. If the team is allowed to fail due to turnover, then it will. Even if the “allowed” is never said aloud to the players themselves. All it takes is tacit understanding and it comes true.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 6:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I buy that...

And I think you are right. The obvious difference is that we don’t have the same young talent that Denver has. Turns out Ty Lawson is a stud. Who knew? Plus these guys have committed to playing defense because their offensive weapon went away. And Denver wasnt a bad defensive team to begin with. Imagine if we traded, say, Nash Warrick and Carter for some midlevel players. Our team would be composed of Lopez, Grant, Pietrus, Dudley, Childress, Frye, and Gortat. That is actually a really good defensive team. Its when guys like Warrick and Carter are on the floor that wires get crossed and assignments really get blown.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions  

A couple of fairly big fallacies here...

1) Lopez has never been a very good defensive player. This has been one of the biggest problems with his play all year. Ironically, so many thought Frye was the horrendous defender last year and we were so F’ed when Lopez went down, as that meant playing the weakass Frye all the time at center. The fact was that Frye was a much better defender than Lopez all last year, which is why he so often got all the key close out minutes last year, and advanced metrics clearly showed Frye to be much more key to our defensive presence than Lopez.

2) The unit Denver puts on the floor, contains a lot more “talent” up and down the line up…They have many more guys who can score the ball on their own (JR, Felton, TY, Afllalo, Nene. Chandler, Gallinari. Harrington), much better shooting as we have only Nash, Frye and Dudley now as reliable 3 point shooters, with Carter much more spotty. MP is not reliable at all as a shooter, nor is Childress.

The reason Denver is doing well without a superstar is that they have solid multi-faceted players up and down the line up, who are good scorers and good athletes, so that they are set up to defend better. Our defensive players, are more limited offensively (MP) or are smaller (Dudley and Childress) and less physical or are simply older (Grant) and therefore less likely to be able to sustain the energy to score well and defend for 35 + mins. game in and game out. BTW, many of Denver’s players proved to be effective players before, Melo and Billups left, and are now blossoming in their absence. (remember how Denver killed us in the pre-season with very few mins for their starters and how embarrassed we were, that our team with huge mins for Gani, and Clark, Warrick, Lopez, Siler, and Matt Janning were getting killed by Denver’s bench and fringe players like JR, Ty L, and Aflalo? Isn’t it pretty obvious why now?)

3) VC is a competent defender. period. Advance stats show us to be ok defensively in any line up where VC is present.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Lopez's defense and rebounding were both better last year and they were decent at the least.

Lopez’s presence was a big part of our turn-around, but I fear it may have only been because Amar’e was there with him. Either that or he’s regressed. Nevertheless, it sucks either way. I believe he’s got a ton of potential, but I’d still trade him because of his injury history. He’s 22 and already he’s lost a lot of athleticism compared to his rookie year.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 10:12 AM MST up reply actions  

I do think we're glorifying Lopez' 31 games a bit now

in retrospect, 11 and 6 (Lopez) playing next to triple-teamed Amare is not nearly as impressive as 12 and 9 (Gortat) this season with no other post presence drawing the defense away.

And HarvMel makes a GREAT point about defense. The Suns’ defense did not fall off when Lopez got hurt. The Suns went 8-2 or 10-2 to finish the season (can’t remember which), plus 8-2 in the playoffs without him while Frye played more C minutes.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Mar 19, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

actually

the defense and rebounding were MUCH better when Robin was playing…I will have to dig up those numbers we did last year

The team did play well without him in large part b/c Amare was a STUD and JRich played great as well. That was a much, much better team overall w/ or w/o Robin.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Jarron Collins stepped in for Lopez

And we got better. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Lopez.

Chairman, Committee to get Vince Carter an Asbestos Sweatsuit

by suns68 on Mar 19, 2011 10:19 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I've always given credit to Lopez during that stretch.

He played well and really, really made a big difference with the team. However, I’m thinking it was a fluke because he had Amar’e next to him and this year has only played like he did in those 31 games twice and that was against Utah and LA.

You bring up a good point about Gortat. He has been impressive. I think he is indeed the better center and had we him last year instead of Lopez we probably beat the Lakers or at least come a bit closer.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 2:14 PM MST up reply actions  

In Robin's defense though, he wasn't 100% in that seires

however, the 09-10 Suns would’ve been better with Gortat.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Every Suns team in the Nash era would've been better with 2010-2011 Gortat.

We’d actually have someone who could guard Duncan back then.

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 5:07 PM MST up reply actions  

True, yet he wouldn't have made much a difference against the Spurs.

He’d make Duncan worked, but Timmy would still get his points. We had Kurt who was doing just that. What that Suns team needed was for Diaw to actually contribute and not average 6ppg in the playoffs. When he played well we were unbeatable, but he only played like that half the time by choice. That’s why I wished we would have traded him around the all-star break of 07.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Mar 19, 2011 7:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I am saying that Lopez's contribution last year was overrated.

We did our most damage, and were our most impressive after he went down with injury. That isn’t proof that he was bad, but is pretty solid proof that he wasn’t very valuable, in that we didn’t lose a beat with jaron Collins/Frye in his place. I remember many a thread, (I wasn’t on BSOTS last year) about how we can’t advance without Lopez and to beat anyone good we need Lopez and it just wasn’t true.

Did he show potential to be useful and valuable? for sure. DId he have a number of good games? also, no doubt..What I am saying is that he was neither indespensible nor that effective defensively, as the combo of Jaron C and Frye, completely covered for his presence. Amare made many guys a bit better. That wasn’t the whole of it.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

again

the numbers don’t bear that out….Robin went down in late March so you are talking about 10 games and then a series against the Blazers with no Roy and the Spurs who had no front line size beyond Duncan (and they still don’t).

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

well I'd like to see the numbers, as..

I am also saying, Channing always looked to me, and I thought the numbers bore this out, an overall more effective defender.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Channing has improved greatly this year. Last season the Frye/Amare tandem got killed on the glass. With Robin playing it turned around immediately.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/331412/Suns_rebounding_Robin_differentials.JPG
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/323971/Robin_Factor.JPG

I remember doing a few more than this but can’t find them right now.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for this.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Ok, well thanks for that..

I live in Vancouver, and was just shitass busy during the Olympics and around then, so I missed a bit of Lopez’s emergence I think. I just think Alex’s point that this was only 31 games, combined with the fan bases excitement about finally having an aggressive big beside Amare made for a bit of an overstatement of his long term capabilities.

But I do remember quite a few good games by him, and overall, do agree that there is potential there. And I also take the point that with a big, there can be a long learning curve that works out, so while he is hurting us now, I can see the value in sticking with him.

It’ll be interesting to see, if we have the patience to hang on to him and whether he can start to sieze the day in the limited mins he is currently pulling down.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 3:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Fallacies?

You should look that word up.

1) Lopez is a good defender. He isn’t great but defense has always been his strong suit as opposed to offense and rebounding. Thats one of the reasons we drafted him. To shore up the interior that Amare never wanted to guard. Frye is definitely getting better and may be the best big man defender on our team. Next to Gortat.

2) True. Never said anything to the contrary. If you noticed I even said they have “young talent.” My point was about defense. The reason Denver is getting it done is because they are playing great defense which is easy to teach to a team that has toughness and a chip on their shoulder and has 3-4 incoming players. They don’t get bogged down in offensive sets like we do. They just defend well and do basic offensive stuff.

3) Competent. Exactly. Good job making my point.

I’m not really sure what you are talking about here. Need to re-evaluate your “argument” if that is indeed what you are doing…

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:29 PM MST up reply actions  

wasn't really looking for a fight..

sorry if it sounded like it..

I was responding to the implications in your post (maybe not stated, but scanning through i though you implied…..), that if you take out, Nash, VC and Hak, and replace them with average guys we are suddenly… Denver, and with that I disagree, as I explained…(i.e. no comparison offensively and with overall less talent defensively than many think)

I also have consistently felt that Frye was underrated last year and Lopez was a bit overrated. I take the numbers Seth just produced at face value, so I guess they rebounded the ball much better, and I can intuitively see a better chemistry with lopez and Amare compared to Frye, but I do remember Frye manning up quite well, and playing good team defence a lot. Might just be a holdover from a prior board I was on where seemingly everyone were Frye haters, and Robin worshippers. And this year, Lopez’s rebounding, well..not good. But I recognize, you weren’t really talking about that.

Also just wanted to say…Vince…pretty good defender.

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

No no.

I don’t mean to say that those guys are an issue. (whether they are or not is beside the point) I was simply trying to say that its not always a bad thing when your star leaves. If Nash left we would be strapped offensively but our defense might improve not necessarily because Nash, Warrick, Carter are bad defenders but because teams that lose their stars step up in interesting ways sometimes. In Denver’s case (and I think in ours too) they focused on defense and became better.

Admittedly it would take longer for us to do so since its not really the culture here, but I think we would get much better defensively. Now whether we would win game or not is a different matter!

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions  

"Turns out Ty Lawson is a stud. Who knew?"

Anybody who watched the 2009 NCAA tourney. He just had to wait his turn because of Billups’ success.

I’m as surprised as anybody over Denver’s success post-Melo. What is making it work besides team D and the speed of Lawson is that Denver received some gifted offensive players in Chandler and Gallinari. Also when Lawson faces a mismatch or has an off night they can bring in Felton, who is having his best season.

Who would shoulder the offensive load if Suns traded Nash? More importantly, who would run the point?

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

But Gallinari has been out for weeks with a toe injury

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

He came back yesterday

Indeed he has only played a handful of games, but he will be crucial if Denver survives this last 3 weeks and makes the playoffs because he is their best shooter.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:43 PM MST up reply actions  

And I didn't watch the 2009 NCAA tourney.

I rarely watch college hoops. Its boring as hell. My question was a bit more rhetorical than you are taking it…

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 2:32 PM MST up reply actions  

He dominated it and won the championship with an injury.

I don’t watch college either until tourney time. Unless there is an unbelievable player that is going pro (Shaq, Griffin, Rose, etc.)

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I for one knew that Lawson was a stud and the the Nuggets raped the Knicks in that trade and would become much better. Knicks have a long way to go. I don’t see them being any better than 5 in the East for a long time unless they get a lot of help.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Mar 19, 2011 2:56 PM MST up reply actions  

FWIW, I scout I was talking to thinks that Lawson isn’t ever going to be much more than a good back up PG b/c he only plays at one speed - balls out.

Not sure I agree but there it is. Same scout also thinks Jimmer is a scoring guard off the bench and doesn’t have the PG abilities needed to run a team at the next level. Again…just food for thought.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

"Fast don't lie"

I think the main knock on Lawson and why he fell in the draft is that his style leads to injuries.

I go back and forth on Jimmer, but the dude can straight ball and we don’t even know what he is capable of on a great team. He seems more talented to me then Redick, which is who everybody likes to compare him to.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Reddick is bigger, faster and more athletic

I’d agree about Jimmer being more talented, but it seems like he’ll have a harder time adjusting to the NBA.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 20, 2011 1:33 AM MST up reply actions  

Knicks will make more money and that is all they care about

If Denver can resign Nene they will be strong otherwise they are going to have to rebuild or make another trade. Doesn’t hurt to have Martin healthy and contributing as well.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Is that Paul Coro interviewing Nash at the beginning of that clip?

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010

by N8lol on Mar 19, 2011 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

I wonder if Brooks will get a game suspension for that stupid ball throwing incident?

Man, that was bush league. I think the only reason he didn’t get tossed was because Amundson distracted the ref on a plea for a travel call.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 12:58 PM MST reply actions  

didn't see it

when did it happen?

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm thinking 3rd/4th quarter

He got a tech so you can find it that way.

He got tripped, traveled, ball goes out of bounds and they call out of bounds, Warriors ball (i think). Brooks throws the ball at the refs leg and it hits him. Lou was arguing with ref for a travel when ball hit the ref in the leg.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

7:46 in the 4th. Based on my notes, I was getting an early jump on my recap at that time.

Thanks

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

It wasn't horrible

not the smartest play in the world but not something I’m going to slam a guy for…like that time MP got ejected early in the game for arguing after he got the first T. That was dumb.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 2:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I only bring it up..

because they give you a suspension for sneezing on a ref now. If he had missed when he threw the ball he might not have even got a tech.

by oLLiE Boombayay on Mar 19, 2011 10:54 PM MST up reply actions  

good call

they suspended him….

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 20, 2011 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

By the way, talking about VC's approach in terms of his career

Listen to him at 3:10 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=820gdG1zE0&feature=channelvideo_title

Exactly what I’ve said over and over… that’s the culprit right there.

by Raptorel on Mar 19, 2011 4:03 PM MST reply actions  

that his career is on the down-spiral?

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 4:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean, he has that mindset of "I'm getting old and gray, nothing you can do about it... I don't have swagger anymore" etc

That’s the most disturbing thing for me as a fan, as I believe, with the proper mentality and course of action, he could be himself (meaning – a superstar scorer) again. But he doesn’t have that mentality at this point in time.

by Raptorel on Mar 19, 2011 4:10 PM MST up reply actions  

He should be thinking:

“I’m 34 so I should be like Grant and be BAMFing all over these young bastards.”

That’d be something worth watching.

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 5:16 PM MST up reply actions  

EXACTLY^^^

That’s exactly how he should approach. Heck, Grant is so much more athletic than him at this point, and 4 years older. He doesn’t have such a mileage on his body being mostly injured his entire career, but that’s not the reason he’s “alive” and moving very well – discipline and commitment to training his body is. That’s the difference.

by Raptorel on Mar 20, 2011 5:23 AM MST up reply actions  

yup

I agree…he certainly doesn’t seem to have the same desire that guys like Grant and Steve do.

Of course, Vince had success at a much younger age than Steve and Grant missed all those years due to injury.

It wouldn’t be the worse thing for Vince to hang it up. Now, what will be painful to watch is if he decides to come back and someone gives him a 2 yr deal. And someone would….just look at T-Mac

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 7:07 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with all of that.

But I think that Nash and Hill are on the freakish end of the scale when it comes to older players committing to working and improving themselves. Carter could definitely do more, but few compare to Nash and Hill as achieving older players. It seems like an unfair comparison to me.

by East Bay Ray on Mar 19, 2011 7:20 PM MST up reply actions  

yup

Vince is normal, I didn’t expect him to come in and turn into Grant or Steve so I am not disappointed.

Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Mar 19, 2011 7:23 PM MST up reply actions  

I did see a completely unsubstantiated rumor that Carter was looking to retire after this season.

And it makes sense to me. It also probably took some of the wind out of his sails (however much wind was left in his sails) to be traded from Orlando, where he theoretically had a chance for a title.

by East Bay Ray on Mar 19, 2011 7:30 PM MST up reply actions  

NOH loses, for those of you who care..

we are only 2 back in the loss column and have 2 left against them to make that up and sieze the tie breaker.

not betting on miracles, but just sayin..

by HarvMel on Mar 19, 2011 7:36 PM MST reply actions  

I'm loving my sig more and more.

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 7:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Me too.

I smell like the vault. I'm so PAID.

by RMason on Mar 19, 2011 9:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Agree that we're not out of it, but we gotta get going and prove it against some quality opponents.

Road swing starting April 3: San Antonio, Chicago, Minnesota, New Orleans, Dallas. That’s rough. 3-2 would be a major achievement.

by East Bay Ray on Mar 19, 2011 7:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I say we just go out and wipe the floor with those pansies

Moping time is over. Steve’s back. Frye’s back. Our team kicked ass Wednesday. It’s time to do it again and again and again until we’re in the playoffs.
REMEMBER 1997!!!!!!!!!!

Chairman, Committee to get Vince Carter an Asbestos Sweatsuit

by suns68 on Mar 19, 2011 8:08 PM MST via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

Now, where is Rex Chapman to hit 3s while falling out of bounds and not even looking at the basket?

"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"
~Admiral David Farragut

by East Bay Ray on Mar 19, 2011 8:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Doesn't Pietrus attempt to do that 60% of the time he touches the ball?

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 8:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Taking them is one thing, making them is another.

"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"
~Admiral David Farragut

by East Bay Ray on Mar 19, 2011 8:52 PM MST up reply actions  

You're such a spoilsport.

We’re going full speed ahead. We don’t need clutch shots. We’re blowing all those posers out. We’re the true champions of this league. PHOENIX SUNS FOR LIIIIFEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 9:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Hell Yeah!

If I were Gentry, I’d make the team stay after practice for mandatory viewings of all the games from March 20 to April 10 of the 1997 season. They went 11-0 that stretch, making up for an 0-13 start and making the playoffs.
And this team is better off than that team was talent-wise. Joe Kleine, for cryin out loud.

Chairman, Committee to get Vince Carter an Asbestos Sweatsuit

by suns68 on Mar 19, 2011 10:24 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

What the Suns didn't tell you

is that Amare will make a special appearance on the days where NY doesn’t play. That’s why Childress hasn’t been playing cause he has to give up his number to Amare soon.

Syke…how I wish that could come true.

Twitter: @FredLegittt

by modernage13 on Mar 19, 2011 10:31 PM MST up reply actions  

So....

http://twitter.com/#!/JaredDudley619/status/49358182937669632

"I refuse to die until the Suns win a championship."
Twitter: TheAlexSkinner, IMDB

by TheAlexSkinner on Mar 19, 2011 11:41 PM MST reply actions  

Good shit, dude.

Get recognized!

Haters gonna hate. But I still have faith. Believe in this team. It's not as bad as it seems. Go and sit down, son. Cuz these Phoenix Suns ain't done.

by NashMV3 on Mar 19, 2011 11:46 PM MST up reply actions  

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