What Happened To Goran Dragic? Channing Frye
I don't know why exactly, but I came across this post from early in this season:
Goran Dragic Has Shown Considerable Improvement Early In His Third NBA Season
Just go look at those numbers and the confidence he had to start the season. Dude was flat out killing it.
So what happened? Well, I don't really and truly know. But I don't think it's an accident that article was written one day before Robin Lopez went down with that knee injury (thanks, Matt Barnes!). From that point on, Channing Frye was a starter and Goran was left to play with a mish-mash of other guys that almost always included two bigs who couldn't space the floor.
Here's what el Dragon said about the pick and roll with Hakim (before Frye was moved out of the bench unit):
Are you getting more pick-and-roll opportunities because of who you are playing with?
"Yeah, definitely. Especially with Hakim (Warrick). Me and Hakim have a great chemistry between us. I know what he's going to do, he knows when I'm going to pass and I think so that's great for our team. If he rolls, somebody has to help from our shooters, especially from Channing (Frye) or Jared Dudley, and if they don't help, we have easy layup and if they help, we have easy three-point shot."
Spacing, people. It's the key to the pick and roll.
It goes back to one of the smartest things I've written all season from back in December:
Phoenix Suns Offensive System Depends On One Man, Channing Frye
As we've seen already, Nash can make any of those three bigs look good as long as Frye is on the court camped out at the three point line. But Frye can't play 48 minutes, so what happens when he goes to the bench?
The answer is the second unit sputters and stalls like Hedo Turkoglu rolling down a hill while tied to a chaperon at a Catholic prep school dance.
And no, I am not going to make a much, much longer list of all the dumb things I've written this season. I'll leave that up to you.
My point? Not much of one. That past is the past. Goran doesn't suck. Frye is really important. Yadda, yadda.
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You're a smart dude, Seth.
I miss Goran.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
I'm not sure what you want me or us to take out of this, but I'll try to get something.
Our poor bench play is due to the absence of Channing Frye and Frye must start because he’s the only PF we have that can. Letting go of Amar’e led to a whole chain reaction of moves, most of them bad. What I’m taking from this is that our FO did not do a good job at replacing Amar’e Stoudemire. Hakim Warrick? Hedo? Had they manage to recruit Scola from the Rockets(just an example) Frye could have stayed with the bench and Dragic probably doesn’t get traded. That also leads to better play which leads to more wins. Would we have been as good as 09-10? No, but we’d be better than we are now.
Don't trade Dudley!
fair enough
I am not even going that far…
but I thought it was interesting to look back at how well Goran started the season and then it went south from the time Frye moved into the starting line up.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 22, 2011 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, I was thinking of the same thing a while ago.
Another thing, what does that say about Goran Dragic? Perhaps it’s the players around him that made him look better than he is?
Don't trade Dudley!
I think it's more the players around him that allow him to be who he is.
He’s not yet at the point where he can adapt his game and create by himself regardless of situation. He may never be able to do that. We’ll have to wait and see.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
yup
it would have been nice for him to step up and find a way to play through the challenge
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 22, 2011 4:57 PM MST up reply actions
well man, just look at Rondo.
He’s suffering from not having Perkins around. If young guys get too used to playing with certain guys, it turns into a huge adjustment problem that may not work itself out for quite some time.
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
or
he just couldn’t play in the system he was given with the players around him.
I still think it has more to do with his scouting report
Guys really starting playing him hard to his left.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
IMO, I think it was not only frye but the rest of the bench
the 2nd unit was usually 4 shooters and a big down low. It worked best when LB was working the floor with him because if the other team sent their pg to harass Goran up the floor, they could just run the same play with LB at the point because they had identical skillsets. When LB was out, Jrich also filled this roll, tho his handling wasn’t as developed.
This year, you take out some shooters, and the shooters you have are in terrible slumps ( including the pg)..your big man down low doesn’t work the boards like Lou…well it’s kind of a disaster, and ’be more aggressive" is no longer an option since the paint can be packed and going to the rim will usually result in a strip or a block.
SO basically we had the perfect personelle for the 2nd unit and we said hey, let’s roll the dice…
by Fritzy on Mar 22, 2011 5:33 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
yup....
Lets roll the dice..perfect description..except even worse, the upside is that we waste 10-15 W’s experimenting with the only hope being that we get back to being as good as we were. In other words, tons of downside risk with no upside= bad bet.
Goran was treated unfairly
As I stated in my many posts against the Aaron Brooks trade, Goran was unfairly blamed for the lack of bench production. Quite simply, it was not just Channing Frye that he lost, but Lou Amundson as well. Goran was asked to adjust to a whole new supporting cast that quite frankly, does not fit together well.
Last season, the best three defensive 5 man group for the suns were [points per possession allowed]:
- Dragic-Barbosa-Dudley-Hill-Amundson: 0.98
- Dragic-Dudley-Hill-Amundson-Frye: 1.01
- Dragic-Barbosa-Dudley-Amundson-Frye: 1.02
- Nash-Barbosa-Hill-Stoudemire-Frye: 1.04
If you also look at the most efficient offensive 5 man groups, you will notice a similar pattern [points per possession scored]:
- Nash-Barbosa-Hill-Stoudemire-Lopez 1.36
- Dragic-Richardson-Dudley-Stoudemire-Frye 1.32
T#3 Dragic-Barbosa-Dudley-Hill-Amundson 1.31
T#3 Nash-Barbosa-Dudley-Stoudemire-Frye 1.31
If you notice, the unit of Dragic, Barbosa, Dudley, Hill and Amundson were the third most efficient scorers and the most efficient defensive unit. In fact, that unit would have been the 3rd best defense IN THE LEAGUE had their stats held for the entire game.
When you look at those units, you see that on a position by position basis, that bench team was a great fit for running the Suns offense without changing anything. You had three guys that could shoot/spread the floor in Barbosa, Dudley and Frye, and you had your rim attacker in Amundson. When Barbosa was down, it allowed Dudley to move over to the 2 and Hill would stay at the 3 [which by the way is why they traded Barbosa – they didn’t really need him]. Offensively, you didn’t have to tinker with anything to find ways to score. The middle opened up for Dragic to behave in much the same manner that Nash does. Add in the fact that defenders had to stay at home on guys like Frye, Dudley and Hill [and Lou to a degree – or he would kill you on the offensive glass], Dragic had much more freedom to roam and found himself more open for scoring opportunities.
But more than offensively, it was defense where this unit really clicked, and where they actually punished other teams. With Dragic, Dudley and Hill on the floor, we had three quality perimeter defenders. The real linchpin here was Amundson. His ability on the defensive end allowed the perimeter players to overplay the passing lanes more, because he had a great knack for help defense and was quick enough to hedge hard on p-n-r situations and recover to his man quickly, he provided the Suns with the quality defender at the 4 that they lacked in their starting unit.
So in summary, while Dragic’s play was subpar this season, a lot of that had to do with the roster changes and the current second unit’s inability to fit the system.
by coachj14 on Mar 22, 2011 5:45 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Well said
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 22, 2011 5:58 PM MST up reply actions
This is why I believe Lou was so important to this team
That second unit was better than several team’s starting unit. Lou was a big piece of that success. I don’t think they valued him as much as they should.
What people have to understand is that it is not simply about judging their ability straight up, but how they play within the structure or framework of your team. Lou in GSW, just another player. Lou in PHX has far greater value because he helped make that second unit work defensively.
Same with Goran. In Houston, Goran doesn’t necessarily work. But here, with that second unit, he was the perfect backup. Change the dynamic of that unit and he becomes mediocre.
Same thing happened to Carl Landry. As a reserve in houston, he fit well and provided exactly what they needed from him. In Sacto, he doesn’t fit at all.
Is there any way we can trade for Lou?
by gophoenixsuns on Mar 22, 2011 6:07 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe if we start spreading rumors of him being a woman he'll be kick out of the league
and his contract cancelled, then we can prove he is a MAN and a HALF and bring him back?
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
Our FO should have noticed this and signed someone who could spread the floor for the second unit
Like Troy Murphy. WHen he has the right players around him Goran is much better than Brooks.
by gophoenixsuns on Mar 22, 2011 6:07 PM MST up reply actions
I don't recall anyone blaming Goran alone...
I know I blamed Goran’s poor performance on the fact that the whole bench was so totally blown to hell Satan felt bad about it…
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
Reading this made me quite happy.
I miss Goran a lot.
I don’t think he’ll be an All-Star or anything, but I do think he could’ve been a lot better here and didn’t get enough of a chance. Like it is being said, too much blame was placed on him.
Oh well. Hopefully he’ll learn and succeed in Houston.
by Dragic_is_Magic on Mar 22, 2011 8:55 PM MST reply actions
I still
think he needed to figure out how to play better and as the point guard make the guys around him better. But I think it was a learning process for him and they should have been more patient with him.
This league is very quick to give up on young players. Fans and teams.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 22, 2011 11:30 PM MST up reply actions
That makes me sad.
It is hard to stay loyal to someone on another team I am finding.
But I will not give up on him.
by Dragic_is_Magic on Mar 23, 2011 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
agreed. when that kid was on he was amazing.
but I’m not going out of my way to watch the stupid f’ing Rockets just to see how he’s developing. They need to be playing the Suns for me to be interested.
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
Brooks had his best game as a Sun tonight….of course he played the 4th quarter with Frye. Just saying.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
Channing Frye is like the key to everything with this Suns team now.
Which is good and bad. Good because that shows how far he’s come as a player and bad because he’s not that good of a player:)
Don't trade Dudley!
people need to recognize...
he is that good of a player…..he just hasn’t yet developed a great inside game, which we expect of a big…but even there, we have seen some signs.
and the reason we have struggled when he went down more than other teams have when dealing with injuries is very simple..we aren’t deep enough at the 4/5. we basically have only 2 strong bigs. as Lopez and Warrick haven’t really panned out. last year we had Amare, frye, lou and a much more effective Lopez, with Jarron to provide a few non descript mins and fouls.
So we are just too thin up front, to lose Frye. and between that and his huge floor spacing advantage, that is why he is either the team MVP or the 2nd MVP after Nash.
Sorry for the Off topic comment…just had to jump in.
by HarvMel on Mar 23, 2011 1:17 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Frye is THAT GOOD.
He’s an unusual 4 or 5 offensively, which I love. What other team has someone like that who will kill a team with 3 point shots??? Please, if there are any, list them.
Defensively, Channing has manned up like a Mo-Fo. Weight-wise, he seems comparatively small, but he has all the attributes needed to turn into a legit Second or Third team All Defense player.
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels

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