SB Nation Arizona Editor's Pick
Where does Gortat rank among NBA Centers?
After tonight's game, I was pondering this question and even started a topic about it in the game thread. Where does Marcin Gortat rank among NBA centers? Currently, he has a PER Ratings (Player Efficiency Rating) of 17.72 which places him 10th in league, in front of such centers as Emeka Okafor, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, and David Lee. A rebound rate (or rebound percentage) The Hammer currently sits 11th among qualified centers at 17.7, which puts him ahead rebounding greats Ben Wallace (17.2, ranked 13th), David Lee (15.3, ranked 30th), Al Jefferson (16.0, ranked 24th), Roy Hibbert (15.2, ranked 31st) and Nene (14.0, ranked 36). Gortat also ranks 11th in true shooting percentage and 13th in value added despite the fact he only has a usage rate of 11.3 which is ranked 46th of 50 NBA centers....Basically, he's awesome.
On a side note, Channing Frye ranks last among qualified center with an 11.9 rebounding rate, and Robin Lopez is five spots ahead of him at 12.4
So, now here comes the fun part where all of you rank who you consider to be the game's top centers and where our Polish hero ranks on that list. Keep in mind age, injury, and current contract status. Also, I ask you limit the list to players who are listed as NBA Centers as their primary position or are listed in John Hollinger's Center List.
http://tiny.cc/hollingerper
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Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah, Amare Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum, Andrew Bogut, Tim Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge
That’s everyone I’ve got about him, which would make him #9.
Some of the young guys have a higher ceiling (McGee, Monroe, Hickson) but I’m betting only Monroe actually realizes his potential.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
Dwight, Gasol, STAT, And Aldridge are technically considered power forwards.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
pretty sure Dwight's a Center . . . . . .
The REAL Big 3: Nash, Frye and Gortat
by The Solution on Mar 24, 2011 2:30 AM MST up reply actions
If that's how you want to roll, then I submit
that Marcin Gortat plays more like a PF than a center. He doesn’t really post up much, but he comes way higher than the top of the key to set a lot of screens, finishes the p’n’r, hits the set midrange jumper, makes side-to-side passes…
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
What does that even mean?
Especially now, there isn’t a whole lot of difference between PFs and Cs. Just because a guy plays good defense doesn’t mean he’s a C.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Aldridge is a PF. Amare is too.
So is Hickson.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
And Gasol.
I smell like the vault. I'm so PAID.
by RMason on Mar 24, 2011 11:27 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
and Frye
Marc Gasol is a C but doesn’t get nearly the touches b/c he’s playing w/ Zach.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Mar 24, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
They're all PF/C.
Meaning that they play significant minutes at Center, even if they are not dedicated to that position solely.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
Why doesn't Al Horford appear on this list?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Mar 25, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
Because I haven't actually seen him play this season
and the Hawks aren’t a very good team.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
homer
He did lost a game against Kobe, But still he has a better education.
by sun_equalizer on Mar 24, 2011 5:09 PM MST up reply actions
Some Centers are defensive minded, some are offensive minded.
Top 5 Defensive: Dwight, Noah, Bogut, Duncan, MAYBE Gortat
Top 5 Offensive: Jefferson, Dwight, Bogut, Duncan, Gortat
The REAL Big 3: Nash, Frye and Gortat
No way.
Sorry but thats not right at all.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
Depends what do we exactly rate
is it “ceilings”, potentials, current production, impact on wins, impact on team, offense, defense????
if we try to find a median in all this I would say he is definitely top 5 – because I seriously can’t find a guy that is top 10 in FG%, rebounds, scoring, defensive efficiency, running speed… all those categories.
In each category you have a few guys better – but they all have huuuge drawbacks -
say Bynum, great post play but injured once a week on average (same goes for Bogut)
Chandler – great defense but he only knows one offensive move and that’s an alley oop slam, same goes for Okafor
Considering this, and the point in each of these players careers – I would say:
Howard
Noah
Pau Gasol (if he can be considered a C)
Maybe Duncan…
That puts young, durable, hard-working and still learning Gortat on nr 5.
To answer this – you would have to ask yourself who would you trade for Gortat – straight up – forgetting about what their contracts are.
I probably wouldn’t trade for Duncan, since he is getting old fast and can’t run and gun like the Hammer. I would however trade Gortat for Howard/Pau Gasol/Noah without a blink.
Not so sure about Mark Gasol – he is much slower and not as good a rebounder. Bogut is a much bettter player skill-wise, but he can’t stand up without injuring himself.
So finally – NR 5 for me.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 24, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
Awesome pic, Rza.
I smell like the vault. I'm so PAID.
by RMason on Mar 24, 2011 11:31 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I know, he is making love to the rim...It turned me on.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
Next year, Gortat will be Howard 2.0
Gortat has improved a lot this year. If he develops a post game, he will be Dwight
Howard 2.0 next year. This will be good, because with Garret Siler being Bynum 2.0 next
year (a great backup for Gortat), and us getting Trey Thompkins or Nikola Vucevic for a
draft pick from Rolo (in addition to getting Jimmer or Nolan Smith). We will be quite
formiable. When you add that Frye will be Aldridge 2.0 next year, and that we should be
able to get West, Scola, Al Horford, or Kevin Love on our team this offseason as well,
Nash will finally be on the NBA Finals favorite team here ! ! This is especially true when we bench Warrick, let Carter walk, and Phuil Jackson retires{Lakers will fall apart when he retires).
Wow you sure do overestimate player development.
I’d be happy if Frye was Andre Bargnani 2.0 and Siler turned out to be an NBA player at all.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
don't bag on Siler just because you hate fat people.
after all, fat people are harder to kidnap.
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
I yield to your expertise on the subject of
kidnapping fat kids.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
This is irony, or you are a tad optimistic?
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 25, 2011 1:50 AM MST up reply actions
I'd go with crazy.
But then again, I’ve read his work for about a year now.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I can't rate Gortat anywhere but 10th best center.
While he gets starter minutes, he isn’t THE starter and takes in a ton of time against reserves. Not knocking backups, but I want to see him play as a starter, against starters, before I put him in the top 5 where he will belong next season (or the one after, stupid potential lock-out).
"I'll get inside your face!"- Chaz Michael Michaels
True he doesnt start...
but in important and/ or close games he gets bulk of center minutes (32+ minutes) including end games/ 4th quarter where he definitely gets a lot of time against opponent top centers
huuuuge LOL for the photo! :)))
It kinda looks like he dunked the rock down on his balls and “feels the pain”.
Awesome!
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 25, 2011 3:33 AM MST up reply actions
Really?
Can you prove that?
Sure, the first 6 minutes he misses starters, but the rest of the game? You can prove that, so using a guesstimate makes no sense!
Centers I rank in front of Gortat
I’m taking into account rutine and that Gortat is playing with Nash.
Howard
Bogut
Horford
Noah
Bynum
B. Lopez
Chandler
Nene
M. Gasol
Kaman
If you also take into account PF/C’s, then Amar’e, P. Gasol, Duncan and Jefferson will also be ahead of him.
So I would rank Gortat about top 15. He is a great rebounder, but an inconsistent scorer without help from a great P’n’R point guard
My ranking
Howard
Bogut
Horford
Bynum
Noah
Nene
Brook Lopez
Gortat
Chandler
M.Gasol
Emeka Okafor
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman
"You need to get real!"
I would have to rank Gortat ahead of Lopez, in my mind Center's rebound
Hell, they should be the best rebounder on the team…The guy is 7 foot, athletic, and doesn’t even pull down six rebounds a night. Bynum is great, but he already has a lot of miles and injuries on his body and has a huge contract, he’ll be making 17 million dollars in the final year of his contract with career averages of 10.5/7.5/1.5
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
Gortat > B Lopez
but Gortat and Lopez < M Gasol, IMO
Overall, good ranking MJ5
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Lopez, part I
is extremely overrated. Kaman doesn’t deserve to be on anybody’s list of best centers at all, having just lost his starting role on the Clippers to a 2nd year player.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
That's because Kaman has been injured the whole season and is just not being worked back into the rotation
Chris Kaman over the past month as averaged 26:45MPG with 14.3PPG, 7.4RPG, 1.6BPG, 52% FG, 86%FT
DeAndre Jordan over the past month has averaged 25:17MPG with 7.3 PPG 7.1RPG 2.3 BPG, 68%FG, 37%FT
So, in the same amount of time basically Kaman is averaging twice as many points, rebounding the same, and averaging about a half a block less. He’s not starting because both him and Griffin are high usage guys in the post. DeAndre Jordan basically is sent in there for the occasional alley-opp, and defense which works well with Griffins style of play because he gets the ball more which is more dunks, which is more tickets sold.
Plus I mean, It’s the Clippers….They exactly have not been heralded by the basketball community for making the wisest basketball decisions.
Chris Kaman’s stats per 36 minutes are up to par with all of the Centers you listed below.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
No they aren't
His TS% is around 49%, which is highly inefficient, especially for a center. The fact that he’s taking enough shots to have that point production, at that low of an efficiency, means that he’s actually a major drag on his team’s offense.
He’s solid at rebounding and very good at shotblocking. He needs to realize his offensive limitations. At this point in his career, he’s not going to suddenly develop offensively.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
ok, so besides his low shooting percentage everything else is up to par.
Does that take away from his efficiency? Sure, but that doesn’t make him a horrible center. If Kaman played with a decent point guard during his career that might actually improve. He basically had to create all of his shots for himself, he is rarely ever set up through the pick and roll or pick and pop.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
Nice list.
If you look at them straight up and rank them by who is the most talented/skilled players, I think I agree with the list.
Dwight, Horford, Noah, Bynum, and Amar’e (playing C again) are clearly superior IMO. These guys are amongst the best players in the league. Noah does everything Gortat does but better, and the other 4 are just physical beasts. Nene is also very solid and under-utilized.
He has, however, played better than M. Gasol (who has really taken a back seat to the other guys in MEM).
Chandler is debatable IMO, but he has had a great year.
Bogut is clearly a better player, but he has had the injury problem and has been disappointing this year.
Kaman has missed most of the year, but he’s starting to show why he was an All-Star last year.
Brook Lopez is a very skilled offensive big man, but he has regressed this year both in efficiency and in rebounding. Andrea Bargnani is a similar player. He has the skills of a G, but unfortunately also rebounds like one. Neither play very good defense.
Roy Hibbert is a skilled big guy, but he still isn’t having the effect he should.
Emeka Okafor is at about the same level. He puts up similar numbers playing with a great PG.
Big Al Jefferson’s impact on winning the game may be questioned, but his ability to put up numbers can not be denied.
Kendrick Perkins is a very good defensive big man who can score a little bit on put-backs and occasionally in the post.
DeMarcus Cousins is a very talented knucklehead. He is a better player than Marcin, but he’s had some problems this year.
JaVale McGee is an enigma. He is a physical freak and an athletic marvel, but he is not consistent at all. He hasn’t put it all together yet.
Greg Monroe is a talented young player, but he’s still growing and hasn’t figured it all out yet.
Marcus Camby’s impact on defense and rebounding can not be denied, although he doesn’t do much at all offensively any more.
IMO Marcin is clearly better than the Celtics’ and Spurs’ rotations, Kwame Brown, whoever CLE plays at C, Andris Biedrins, Erick Dampier, Chuck Hayes, Darko Milicic, and Spencer Hawes.
So there are about 5 guys that are clearly superior to him, and he is clearly superior to about 9 starting Cs. 6-10 might be argued, but I’d probably put him in the 10-15 range. You can sort out the list for yourself.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Stats be damned
there are guys on this list who fill the stat sheet while having a negative impact on the game for their team. They oughtn’t be considered to be superior to Gortat – who clearly has a HUUUUGE positive impact in our lineup. I submit that the following players belong in this category.
Chris Kaman, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson, DeMarcus Cousins
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
My list:
1. Howard-How could he not be? Blocks, rebounds, defends, and has a progressing post game.
2. Horford-He’s just really smart, he never makes a bad play and outplays his opponent on a night basis despite being a fairly undersized for a center.
3. Nene-He doesn’t do anything really that great but he does absolutely nothing wrong, very well rounded.
4. Andrew Bogut-The dude is extremely banged up this year and he is still putting up 12.8PPG/11.4RPG/2.1APG and an INSANE 2.7 blocks per.
5. Al Jefferson-Say what you want about the guy but he puts up monster numbers year after year-Can use some improvement on the defensive end and needs the ball a lot to be effective.
6. Marcin Gortat- Am I being a homer? Maybe, but name me ONE thing the guy does wrong? He’s got range, speed, can defend, block, rebound, pass, has a bevy of post moves at his disposable, can shoot free throws…Also, not to mention he’s got a GREAT contract and not many miles on his body.
7.Joakim Noah-He still has a lot to proof on offense but with how he hustles and his rebounding ability, he’ll still get you 10-12 points a night just off of dunks and offensive boards. He’s always intense and never gives up on a play….Kind of a dick though.
8.Marc Gasol-A really, really good player who is limited by the team he plays on due to having Gay and Randolph on the team who need the ball a lot to be effective. If Randolph isn’t there next year, I expect to see a HUGE spike in his production.
9. Chris Kaman-Kind of underrated due to the team he plays on but he is very, very skilled offensively, and has great dexterity for a big man, Can block shots, play defense, basically do it all. If he wasn’t on the Clippers and was on a more mainstream team, he’d get a lot more attention.
10. Brook Lopez….Super talented offensively, can block shots, defend, has some range on offense but MAJORLY needs to work on his rebounding skills.
Just missed the cut: Emeka Okafor, Marcus Camby, and I know I sound crazy…but Shaq. yes, he’s old, fat, and injured but if you look at his offensive efficiency ratings, he still ranks up pretty high up there in a lot of categories. The problem is, he needs the ball A LOT to be effective but he’s just too old to play major minutes at this point.
The two centers with the most potential by far are DeMarcus Cousins and Javalle McGee…Cousins is a complete basket case though.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
Well, he has a spin move against opposing PGs.
He also has… um… what?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
He has a good hook shot, knows how to up and under centers, he can fade away from either angle, and and go up to his left or right.
He’s not just a pick and roll machine.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
Rza, Bynum? Chandler? You are missing some peeps.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Mar 28, 2011 12:12 AM MST up reply actions
I didn't forget about them, I left them off of the list for a reason.
Chandler is a good defender, and a great rebounder…That’s it. His only offensive weapons are dunking and alley oops. He doesn’t have any range, can’t shoot free throws, makes a lot of money (12.6 million) and has a extensive injury history.
Andrew Bynum is pretty damn good, I’ll give you that but he has only played 82 games ONCE which was in 06-07, since then he’s played in 35, 50, and 60 games. Thus far this season, he has only played 46 games with only about 10 games left to go. He makes a SHIT LOAD of money for only having career averages of 10.5PPG, 7RPG, and 1.5BPG. Currently, he makes 13 million dollars a year and in two years, which will be the final year of his contract he’ll be pulling down over 17 million dollars so his value really isn’t that good when you look at what Gortat is doing and he is pulling down just a little over six million. If Bynum can stay healthy for a few seasons I’m sure my list would change but for now I stand by my list.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
How about some Gortat statistics?
Pts / 36min: 15.6
Reb / 36min: 11.1
Blk / 36min: 1.6
TS%: 60.6%
DReb%: 28%
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
For comparison's sake...
Andrew Bogut
Pts / 36: 13.0
Reb / 36: 11.5
Blk / 36: 2.7
TS%: 49.0%
DReb%: 27.9%
He’s substantially better than Bogut offensively, about the same at rebounding, but not nearly the shotblocker. This is about a wash.
Andrew Bynum
Pts / 36: 15.0
Reb / 36: 12.0
Blk / 36: 2.6
TS%: 60.7%
DReb%: 23.6%
Similar numbers across the board, except Bynum is a better shotblocker. However, Bynum is only a 24 minute / game player, so advantage Gortat.
Joaquim Noah
Pts / 36: 12.9
Reb / 36: 11.7
Blk / 36: 1.5
TS%: 57.2%
DReb%: 23.5
Gortat is better offensively, about the same at shotblocking and defensive rebounding. One thing that doesn’t show is that Noah also has a crazy-good OReb% of 14%+, which is better than just about everyone in the league.
Al Jefferson
Pts / 36: 19.1
Reb / 36: 9.6
Blk / 36: 1.9
TS%: 53.7%
DReb%: 22.7%
Gortat is a much better rebounder, slightly worse at shotblocking. Jefferson scores much less efficiently, while shooting much more often. This makes Jefferson’s teams pretty bad.
Al Horford
Pts / 36: 16.0
Reb / 36: 9.7
Blk / 36: 1.1
TS%: 59.4%
DReb%: 23.9%
They are mirror images offensively, but Gortat is a much stronger rebounder, and slightly better shotblocker. In Horford’s favor, he is a much better passer than Gortat (twice as many assists with slightly less turnovers)
and the gold standard….
Dwight Howard
Pts / 36: 22.0
Reb / 36: 13.6
Blk / 36: 2.3
TS%: 62.0%
DReb% 30.3%
Howard owns everybody on this list by a wide margin in virtually every category. Bogut has him beat for blocks by a small margin, and Noah gets a few more offensive rebounds. That’s it. Everyone else is owned in every category.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
Brook Lopez is super overrated
Pts / 36: 20.2 (he shoots a lot)
Reb / 36: 6.0
Blk / 36: 1.6
TS%: 54.0%
DReb%: 9.9%
Mediocre offensive efficiency meets high shot volume = bad offense for team. Welcome to New Jersey! If 6 boards sounds awful, it’s because it is. That DReb% is just amazingly bad… it shows that his pathetic rebounding stat is actually somewhat inflated by a high # of shots missed in Nets games. Guys are tripling him up on rebounding.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
What you already knew about Amare'
Pts / 36 min: 25.0
Reb / 36 min: 8.2
Blk / 36 min: 1.9
TS%: 56.5%
DReb%: 17.9%
Amare scores at an above-average efficiency, and he does it a lot. That drags the Knicks offense into the “good” category (though his efficiency is greatly reduced from his days in PHX). His rebounding is sub-par, but at least reasonable. His shotblocking is much improved this year, and is somewhat better than Gortat’s.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
Amare's shot blocking will deflate again as soon as he falls into his "comfort zone"
It just frustrates the HELL of me that Amare last year and the year before that only averaged 1.0 block a game and now he is averaging double that amount. His rebounding numbers and blocking numbers have already taken a pretty big dip from earlier in the season, I mean just as recent as January I remember look at his stats and he was averaging like 2.4 blocks a game, right now he is back down to 1.9. Also, for the first two months he was averaging 10 plus boards a night now he’s back down to 8.4 which is actually below his career average.
Amare’s worst enemy is himself, he could be the best center/power forward in the game if he really wanted too but he just isn’t that type of guy, every game he plays you can always tell that he takes a few plays off. If you could combine Amare’s pure ability with Tim Duncan’s work ethic and willpower then you would have the best player in the league…and maybe the greatest front court player ever.
"Look, don't relax on Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith. He'll put it on your face in a hurry."-Eddie Johnson aka Best. Commentator. Ever.
There is one thing these stats do not indicate:
Steve Nash.
Gortat’s efficient scoring is not self-reliant. He cannot create for himself YET, that sets him apart from the rest of guys on this list.
He rarely gets ISO or post up plays – that’s why his FG% is so high. On the other hand, it means he doesn’t impact games on the offensive end as much as others and isn’t the primary, hell, even secondary option on offense.
The biggest test for the Hammer is coming next year – can he become an offensive threat? can he develop a post up game that will change the other team’s defense? will he become a player respected 1-on-1? so far, there is no single team that would decide to throw a double team at him, which means he isn’t opening up the floor for his teammates.
If he can make the next step – he will transform from one of the best role players in the NBA to an All-star caliber center.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 27, 2011 5:49 AM MST up reply actions
This is all true about Gortat
However, note that Noah and Bogut are not primary offensive options either, and the B-Lopez and Jefferson’s offensive contributions are arguably the things that make their respective teams bad.
Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.
That’s why I left the middle of my list above to interpretation. It depends what you’re asking for.
Bogut actually is one of their primary options, when he’s at full strength at least. Dude has skills.
Gortat is top 5-10 in production, but not in skills I would say. A lot of guys with lower percentages try harder things ans are looked at to create for themselves. Gortat doesn’t.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
They did?
I think it was the history of Kidd’s great post defense against 7footers…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 29, 2011 8:11 AM MST up reply actions
Love the guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj7nv0xa2dU
Hammer veel crosh!
“No reason why I shouldn’t play against Mavericks”
I hope he follows up on that and goes all out on the puny Mavs!
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 27, 2011 9:45 AM MST reply actions
Buhahaha
http://www.youtube.com/user/FundacjaMG13
“Steve, did you know you just broke the biggest nose in Poland?”
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Mar 27, 2011 9:47 AM MST reply actions

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