Phoenix Suns '10-'11 Player Evaluation: Channing Frye-The Answer to the Suns Search for an Amare Replacement?
by Wil Cantrell on Apr 21, 2011 11:00 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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"If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way."
-Mark Twain
Last Summer Channing Frye signed a 5 year, $30 million contract to remain with the Phoenix Suns. There was never much of a question that Frye would leave. Yes, some teams may have kicked his size 16 tires, but Frye wanted to be a Sun. He grew up in Phoenix, played his high school and college ball in AZ, heck even his grandma lived here and shopped at Frye's Supermarket. It was a good signing for both sides of the deal. As the back up 5, no one was going to to take Frye's spot-that of a big who can spread the floor and hit from long range. In addition, Frye was a big part of the Suns potent second unit. With Louis Amundson and Leandro Barbosa already gone, there was no reason to further deplete the cohesion of the Suns bench for the contract Frye was asking for.
Yet there was something else that may have been playing on the minds of both Frye and the Suns FO. Amare Stoudemire had yet to officially leave the Suns, but keeping Frye aboard was an insurance policy should Amare fly the coop. Of course he did, a week after Frye re-signed. No one thought that Channing could take the place of Amare Stoudemire, but to have the flexibility of size and scoring was important. No different than the philosophy of grabbing Warrick, Turkoglu, and Childress, the signing of Frye was on the same level of: "Let's grab some guys, toss them on the floor, and see if we can contend."
Frye was a known quantity to the Suns and their fans. We knew what we were getting, big guy, stretch the floor, 3's, no defense, yadda, yadda, yadda. But something happened along the way from October to April-Channing Frye became the starting 4. He improved on the defensive end, he became a huge piece of Suns offensive output on a squad that lacked a go-to guy, and most importantly, Frye gained mad confidence and popularity after this:
Channing Frye's Buzzer-Beater (via NBA)
and this
Channing Frye grabs the Grant Hill miss and slams it home (via kakalama12345678)
and this
Channing Frye overtime game winning three vs. Nets (Feb. 28, 2011) (via thehoopscene)
And who could forget the night Channing became a man:
Kevin Garnett punches Channing Frye LIVE brawl (via 2929alligator)
When we consider Frye's '10-'11 campaign, we have to believe that he stepped up and played defense and rebounded at a level most of us didn't think he could. The most notable difference from last season is in the rebounding department. Frye posted 59 games in which he grabbed between 5-18 rebounds. In '09-'10 Frye had 48 games of 5-14 rebounds. Frye played 351 more minutes this season and picked up 513 rebounds, compared to 427 last season. From an offensive standpoint, Frye shot worse this year, in 48 more attempts from beyond the arc, hit one less 3 (171) than last season and shot 39%, compared to last season's 44%.
The modest increases and subtle decreases in Frye's numbers are a bit misleading. But the differences between this season and '09-'10 are most likely due to his increase in minutes, his move to the first string 4 from second string 5, and the fact that a lot of Frye's defensive improvement cannot be captured in a box score. Upon moving to the starting lineup once Hedo Turkoglu was moved and Hakim Warrick proved a one trick pony, Frye stepped in, found the motivation to hit the boards and play above average D.
Say, what the hell was with the Twain quote anyway? Well something about hanging a cat by its tail. Of course I do not condone such acts on animals, but the gist of the statement had to do with being wrong, which I was in my pre-season prediction about the proposed biggest disappointment on the Suns squad:
"Channing Frye. Cannot find his touch and proves more worthless defensively than a year ago when asked to play PF and hit the rack."
How naive of myself to assume a shooter could go 77 games and not find his touch. How faithless was I to believe that Frye couldn't improve his defensive game? Bad Wilfredo, bad! Not only did Frye get over his early season woes, he became a go-to man for the Suns on the offensive end. He became the ice man of sorts, looking for the ball come crunch time, and went from defensive liability to a strong defender in the Suns front court. The late season non-foul call on Kevin Durant that left Frye with a separated shoulder and on the bench resulted in the Suns losing 4 of the 5 next games during a pivotal stretch of their post season drive. It was clear evidence that the Suns depended on Frye and needed him in order to win.
But is Frye the answer at the 4? In '10-'11 Channing started 64 games, averaging 13.8 and 7. Is this his ceiling? Or can Frye hit the weight room this off-season and put on the bulk to take on the monster 4's of the league? Can he find the big man acumen to post 20 and 10 numbers? Do the Suns need that from their 4? As pointed out in the Dudley pieces, it depends what the Suns can get done in free agency. If the Suns can pick up a scoring 2, Gortat continues his double-double performances, and the bench can do there job, then maybe Frye doesn't have to be an Amare replacement. He can be himself, do what he does best, and improve upon a strong season.
20 and 10 is a stretch for Frye. Amare he is not. He lacks the explosiveness and athleticism of Stoudemire. His efficiency ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)) ranked 38 in the NBA among forwards, in territory of Andrei Kirilinko, Shawn Marion, and Danilo Gallinari. But Frye proved a serviceable starter for the Suns this season. The questions remains to what extent he can improve and if the Suns find a J.R. Smith type available via trade or FA. Perhaps Channing Frye won't get the shot to prove he's up to the task.
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It's a difficult question
and intriguing as well.
He’s not a top 15 power forward, not close to reaching that upper echelon level, but he is top 20. I think that’s maybe the main position the Suns could become vastly better at by improving.They’d need someone more athletic, better defensively, and someone who could rebound at a higher rate and more consistently such as: Josh Smith, Ed Davis, or miraculously Paul Millsap
Another big question I have is if he can play as well as he has at the center position. Say Lopez is traded because he’s a definite asset, can Frye man the backup center role?He struggles already against some power forwards and one has to worry about his ability to contain even stronger and tougher centers.
Lastly, I don’t know if he can improve much more. He’s about to turn 28 years old! Has he already played his best basketball? I don’t know. Even if he hasn’t, I’m not sure he can become much better. Even if he hits the gym a lot, and gains 5-10lbs of muscle, there’s still a question. He’s a finesse player, it’s not his comfort zone to go out and bang. It’s got to be really difficult to try to mold yourself into something you’re not natural at, and in fact, have a weakness of.
There are huge questions, but after all he’s done this year, it’s so hard to think of him being moved or taking a lesser role. He’s come up huge and has immediately won over the hearts of fans deservedly so. Still I feel he isn’t the answer at power forward and there needs to be an improvement. If there is, I can’t imagine him sticking around as a bench player, getting paid 5 million, and still being valuable. Maybe he could be the first big off the bench, I don’t know. Unless the SG position gets a big lift, the PF position needs to be improved.
"You need to get real!"
"can Frye man the backup center role?" --- Say what?
The best basketball we played last season was with Frye as our primary center (playing starter’s minutes, although we did give Jarron Collins the courtesy start to keep the rotations in order).
Frankly, I’d like to see him back in the center position, even if it meant trading Gortat for a scoring 4 or 2.
Frye may struggle to guard some bigger centers, but they struggle to guard him too. On balance, that favored us, forcing the opponent to pull a big man out of the paint to try to contest Channing, opening up passing and slashing lanes. The problem this year was that we just didn’t have anyone who could take advantage of that.
Bringing him off the bench behind a high-minutes guy like Gortat would be a waste of everything he brings to the team.
Josh Smith replacing Frye at the 4? Maybe. But I’d certainly rather see Frye out there alongside Gortat than either Ed Davis or Paul Millsap.
New York, the other Planet Orange.
I'd like to see a Laker-like frontcourt rotation.
Gortat+Player X starting with Channing backing up both spots, all 3 of whic getting 30ish mpg.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
by Omaha Sun on Apr 22, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Second in Woo Hoo!
It all depends on what happens over the summer. Dudley and Frye are in the same boat. It’s best if they are coming in off the bench. But i understand we were short handed at the PF position. However i do feel comfortable with Frye starting along side Gortat.
Frye, for me, was one of the biggest pleasures this season.
He became far more consistent than he was the year before and he became cold blooded in the process.
There are still some things I don’t like about his game: The fact that he is the team’s tough guy worries me for no reason other than the fact I think my mum could beat him up and his inability to back down Jason Kidd adequately when he’s got him trapped in the post.
I also believe that no player has fans changing their mind on him more often than Frye. I’ve lost track of the amount of times that he’ll be struggling during a game and fans just jump all over him and abuse him. Likewise, I don’t know many other Suns who get the fans quite so excited when he’s hitting.
If that trend continues, maybe this Suns team goes the way of Frye.
Not sure how I’d feel about that…
I like writing a lot of basketball related nonsense on twitter at strange hours of the day. Come join me: @keiththejourno
Y'all baffle me
Why try to force that which is not there?
If, by draft, or trade/free agency (Paul Millsap, I’m looking in your direction), Frye would be the PERFECT Small Forward! 6’10" with range and D….It’s like the 2004 Pistons. Everybody forgot that template, and it can work.
Perfect if not for the fact he is to slow for 50% of marquee SF on defense...
He can’t also play effectively as a C against most teams with regular, big guys playing that position.
The whole team will be outrebounded every time he is in the floor as the primary reboundiing/box out guy.
IMO the reason he is rebounding that well is Gortat – he is boxing out very well and most of the time gets teh attention of the other team’s primary rebounder. And still – most of the games we lost the rebounding battle.
So I wouldn’t risk moving Frye anywere else on the court. He is a great stretch 4 – if we get a good post-up PF – he can either be his backup, or the other way around. He is a PF that can shoot the 3 and we should utilize him as such.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Apr 22, 2011 5:02 AM MST up reply actions
He did just fine at C his first 2 years in Phoenix.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
we'd be better with JSmith
Playing him at 3 which i believe he can guard really well, with Frye playing 4, Hill slides down to 2.
Its decision time;
Lets win as much as we need to at least make the playoffs OR suck so bad we get a top 5 pick... i doubt the latter will be possible as some other teams (min, lac etc) made the decision earlier than us...
Are you comparing Channing Frye to Tayshaun Prince?
That’s not even close, outside of the fact that they are both long and skinny.
Prince is very quick for his size and is a lockdown perimeter defender, plus he has great handles. He is nothing like Channing.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
So answer me this
The Suns’ most common lineup in the second half had Nash, Duds, Hill, Frye and Gortat. 4 of those guys now have a reputation as “good” defensively. Everyone loves Duds’ effort. Hill finished 7th in DPOY voting. Gortat had the highest rebound rate of any Suns center in a thousand years and no one questions his defensive presence. And Frye is now reputed as a good defender as well.
So… how in the hell did the Suns finish near the bottom on defense in the second half of the season? Their only good stretch of the season was January.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
its a team game
all season we heard about problems with defensive rotations. an individual can be a good one on one defender, but a team’s defensive performance is based on a collective effort.
no man is an island, Alex.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Apr 22, 2011 7:19 AM MST up reply actions
right but 4 out of 5 being "good" defenders
should equate to better than bottom-5 defense. Frankly, the Suns were bad after the all-star break so we can’t even blame it on Hedo and jRich. Admittedly, Frye went down for 2 of those weeks and Nash was hobbled, but geez. You’d think 3-4 good defenders in the lineup at once would produce halfway decent results.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
i agree
and i blame vince carter
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Apr 22, 2011 7:38 AM MST up reply actions
We're not playing fast enough
Seriously, I think we’re so obsessed with becoming good (or decent) defensively that we don’t run as much, don’t crash the offensive boards, and let the other team set up their halfcourt offense.
When we ran, we forced teams to run with us. I think defensively, this played into our team – we had athletes he could play multiple positions and play defense adequately. Although we gave up a lot of points, I think at this point it’s been proved in the blogosphere that, according to defensive metrics, we were an average defensive.
Dudley can fill the Bell role, Hill as Marion . . . Frye is the weak link. He needs to go back to the bench.
You're suggesting the Suns need to run more
(which I agree with) by using the following comparison?
Dudley can fill the Bell role, Hill as Marion
Just a random musing here – what do you think would be the result if we set up a hypothetical foot race in an alternate dimension between Marion and Bell from 2005 and Dudley and Hill from the present day?
The Suns aren’t built to run like that team was. If the Suns start Nash, Dudley, Hill, Frye, and Gortat next season they might have the slowest, least athletic starting 5 in the league. The only running Hill and Nash do is to the bathroom six times in the middle of the night.
To implement your strategy, the roster needs to be reconstituted and infused with more speed and athleticism.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, Grant is really the only one that scored at the basket in transition.
Chilly might be able to do that. Hak should. That’s about it.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
your point is well taken
I don’t think Bell is wildly more athletic than Dudley, but maybe I’m just being revisionist. Clearly Hill is less athletic than Matrix.
It’s also why I’m not so attached to this roster as others seem to be – If we’re keeping Nash, then we aim to be a running team, so literally everyone except Nash should be up for trades.
What if Dudley and Lopez get us Kevin Martin? What if Gortat gets us Josh Smith?
Trading Gortat for anyone is a bad idea
Unless it’s someone who’s a legit Superstar in some sort of stroke of luck 3 quarters for a dollar type of deal. Like, say, Dwight Howard for our whole froncourt or something.
Otherwise we’re just moving our woes to a different position. Smith would be great, but I don’t think he’d be comfortable on offense whilst having to be our go to defensive guy at the same time. Because who else would fill Gortat’s role on D? RoLo? The Pudgemonster?!
Or do we go back to the freeballin’ defense of old? And would Smith even go for that (as in not giving much effort on D) considering he’s a hustle guy? Blocking, stealing and being a one-man fastbreak is about as much his game as jamming that left handed tomahawk through as many defenders as possible whenever he gets the chance.
I don't agree with this
Bell was meaner and more tenacious on D than Duds (though not much more effective), but no faster or stronger. Duds gets more steals because he has better hands.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Wow Alex,
That sounds uncannily like something that I might post, although in a more lexiphanic style.
Who, besides the people that frequent this forum, every propounded that all the aformentioned players were good defenders?
Nash is abhorrent.
Dudley lacks speed and athleticism.
Frye is physically weaker than his counterparts on a nightly basis.
Gortat is not an imposing presence in the lane.
A 38 year old man is the best defender on the team.
I personally don’t really think that any team that has Nash play the lion’s share of minutes at the point guard can ever be a top tier defensive squad. The ability to maximize defensive performance is compromised by the style of play and covering for his deficiencies on that end of the court.
The luculent answer to your question, Alex, is that the Suns aren’t that good on defense because their players aren’t that good of defenders.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't disagree completely,
but I think you are going a bit too far.
Individually, we were somewhat decent. But team-wise we were pretty bad for much of the year. The rotations were just terrible. I don’t know whether to blame Gentry’s gameplanning, the players’ ability to execute that plan, or if it was just a matter of effort (which often seemed the case).
Also, that line-up basically had our 5 best defenders. The bench had the likes of Brooks, Carter, Warrick, and Lopez. Yuck.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Jim, you slay me. lexiphanic? luculent? Is this ‘L’ day?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I prefer to provoke levity rather than lachrymosity with my lucubrations.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think that's true
Nash is a bad defender and is probably getting even worse with age. Hill is a great defender-he’s tough, versatile, and plays smartly. Dudley is known as a good defender, but his athleticism, or lack thereof will always holding him back.Channing Frye has to still be a below average defender. He’s blocked shots, but isn’t a legitimate defender because he doesn’t possess the needed strength or athleticism. Then you also have Vince Carter who played blatantly bad defense. The man made scream at my TV screen multiple times in the same game. Marcin Gortat is a good defender. Pietrus is too because of his aggressive pesty nature. I think the main problem is that it’s most of the team that’s weak defensively. Half the team(bench included) were generally bad defenders. You can’t be a good defensive team with that many holes,no matter how great Hill is, especially when you aren’t an even average rebounding team.
"You need to get real!"
So… how in the hell did the Suns finish near the bottom on defense in the second half of the season? Their only good stretch of the season was January.
1. Dudley and Frye aren’t good defenders.
2. Bad chemistry
3. Not enough energy.
Do you need me to expound?
Don't trade Dudley!
The idea that Dudley isn't a good defender is a joke
I feel like your trying to be overly-skeptical or something. He’s not the best athlete. But he does a better job of saying put, defensively, sliding his feet, studying opposing players, as anyone on the team.
Point : When the Suns play the Mavs, Hill mostly guarded Nowitzki. Did an ok job, but he bit on Dirk’s patented step in, roll, fadeaway at least half the time.
When I saw Dudley play Dirk, he stayed home every freaking time and challenged every shot.
Ok
1. Dudley is a good defender at his position. SG is not his primary position. It’s his secondary position. He’s a decent defender at that spot. Dudley just isn’t fast enough. We must also not mistake hustle for good defense.
2. Frye isn’t bad either, but he’s not good.
For some reason I feel like using numbers today.
Don't trade Dudley!
We should not overlook
The clippers offered him the fullmid-level exeption so he wanted to be here bad enough that he left 5+ mil on the table,and some were outraged we gave him the 30 mil.I am so glad channing proved he deserved it and is a good value for the money going forward.
Lover,Poet,Suns fan,All around damn good guy.
Good thing too
The idea of Channing Frye playing for Donald Sterling makes my skin crawl.
"You need to get real!"
ATTN: NBA Fans from Phillipines
Hey, I know you guys are out there…please email me at arizona at sbnation dot com
Thanks
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
don't worry I never spell it right either.
Channing Frye would NEVER catch flying french fries with his left hand!
by Will Slaven on Apr 22, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
Frye or Dudley will need to be replaced in the starting lineup for the Suns to significantly improve next season.
If you look at our starting five, where’s the improvement coming from?
- Nash – Only improvement we could see there is if he’s able to stay healthier next year than he did this, wishful thinking for an athlete his age.
- Dudley – Should we get a new starting SG or hope for him to grow into a difference-maker?
- Hill – Would be a minor miracle if he improves from this year to next at his age. Even producing at the same level would be impressive.
- Frye – Same question as Dudley. Replace or hope for growth from him?
- Gortat – Most of us expect some degree of continued growth from Gortat, but how much? In any case, he’s not being replaced.
So, Nash, Hill and Gortat are in place. Do we look to upgrade PF or SG, assuming we only have the opportunity to upgrade one of the two? As much as I think Dudley works best coming off the bench for 20 or so minutes per game, I think that applies even moreso with Frye. As much as I love Frye, he’s gonna be 28 next month. I’m not expecting his game to reach some new level at this stage of his career.
I say trade Lopez, the first round pick, in combination of another player would command a significant improvement
Some SG’s probably available
Courtney Lee
Aaron Affalo
Reggie WIlliams-would be cheap and a steal!
Anthony Parker-can shoot, play defense, pass, but pretty boring player who takes no risks.
"You need to get real!"
so if Lopez goes
do you move Frye back to the 5, coming off the bench?
If so, then whose going to start at the 4?
Sarver needs to break out the Amex Black and go shopping.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Apr 22, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry I should have clarified
I meant trade Lopez, pick, and maybe another player to get a significant power forward improvement. Such as Josh Smith, Wilson Chandler, Paul Millsap, or Ed Davis(really high on his potential).
Then the list is of realistic upgrades at the guard spot.
I would have Frye be the first big off the bench. Have him play 20-25 minutes.
"You need to get real!"
I don't have a problem with Frye playing 30+ minutes
96 minutes between the 4 & 5 = 32 minutes each for 3 players.
If the Suns get a new starting 4, Frye can play the back up 4 & 5 minutes off the bench.
Having Gortat, Frye, and Mr. Mysterio all play about 32 minutes a night sounds fine to me. Plus or minus a few depending on foul trouble or the hot hand. Frye will have games where he drops a half dozen threes that 35-40 might be preferable.
This is my vision. Babby, make it so.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
Those guys are all at about the same level as Dudley.
I do like Afflalo, and Lee could be a nice addition as well, but Williams and Parker wouldn’t be much of an upgrade.
Actually, all these guys would be an upgrade over Pietrus/Carter, so if we get a good player at the 4 this might be fine. I’ve already said I like Afflalo. Actually, Lee/Williams might eb a pretty good pick-up. Lee is a better defender IIRC, and he can shoot. Williams is a bit more of a scorer, which would be welcome on this team. Afflalo might start ahead of Dudley, but I think Williams would be a good addition to the bench. No to Parker.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Gortat seems to me to be the only player we have with any real trade value
I’d say try to trade him for the best scoring four or dead-eye shooting guard we can get, spend our draft pick on whichever one we don’t get, and move Channing back to center.
As somebody pointed out above, we don’t run often enough or fast enough. Gortat’s not going to help that, nor is he ever going to be the center that can take us to the top as a set-piece team.
We don’t run, we can’t win. And we can’t get back to the elite as a traditional team without spending the next five years in downtown sucksville rebuilding through the draft.
New York, the other Planet Orange.
Hmm..I thought sometimes the same.
The Suns can do this (IMO small possibility) but after this they should blow up whole team and rebuild all. Do they make it??
I respectfully disagree with any notion of trading Gortat
27-yr old 7-foot C who consistently produce 14 and 11 at 7 mill a year, have a great work ethic, beg for more minutes and have a plan for continual improvement, are nearly impossible to find. Much, much harder to find than a SG or PF. He is the last person the Suns should trade. IMO.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Apr 22, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd. Thanks, Alex.
My man crush on Gortat compromises my credibility on the topic.
by East Bay Ray on Apr 22, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
At least you have credibility to compromise.
All I have is a gift card to Sports Authority and some left over pot roast in the fridge.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
Plus he runs as well as any big man in the league.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
That is a perspiculous and lucid analysis
(you see what I did there brian13)
which could easily get you labeled as a heretic or nogoodnick.
Much better to argue the point that Frye and Dudley are both easily good enough to start for contenders, so very minimal addition to the present roster is necessary. Since Dudz and Frye will both score 20+ next year, the Suns are probably just a back up point guard away from a championship.
I agree with the point that (unless the team blows it up and rebuilds – which I’m in favor of if they could actually get something for Nash, but I don’t think they can or will) Nash, Hill, and Gortat are locked in. The positions to look for improvement in are the starting 2 and 4 (and back up pg).
Riddle me this, though EBR…. how exactly are the Suns expected to pull off the coup of improving those spots without losing any of the fab 5 that took the Suns to such lofty heights last season?
It tends to be hard to get something for nothing.
Never confuse activity with achievement.
by Jim Coughenour on Apr 22, 2011 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I'm more of a consultant.
I specialize in identifying obvious problems, but providing no viable solutions.
However, if you must know, I plan to procure our new star PF for the cost of a mere handful of magic beans.
by East Bay Ray on Apr 22, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
how exactly are the Suns expected to pull off the coup of improving those spots without losing any of the fab 5 that took the Suns to such lofty heights last season?
1. Frye wouldn’t be as good as he is here anywhere else. This is the perfect place for him because it gets the best out of him. I could be wrong, maybe he’d be just as good on a few other teams, but the point still stands.
2. Yea, we’ve already got Nash, Hill and Gortat locked up.
3. This means that Dudley is the most likely of the fab 5 to be traded because people love him. Yes, people in the NBA know who he is now.
It tends to be hard to get something for nothing
That is true, although that’s not the case with us. We do have something other than the 5 above. We’ve got Lopez who’s got a ton of potential and is still young. The guy is a project. That’s something. We also have Aaron Brooks. There are teams out there who may think that they need him and that he’d be a better fit there than he is here. We also have Pietrus. He gave us 7.5 ppg and good defense without a single training camp. He’s just not a good fit here. He’d be a better fit somewhere else. We also have our 1st round pick which would most likely have to be included in a trade. Nobody wants Childress or Warrick, so we’re stuck with them.
We’ve got 3 players and a lottery pick that teams will be interested in. Problem is… it would take all that and maybe a future 1st rounder in order to land Paul Milsap or Josh Smith. That means every other scenario to improve the team next season will have to be done through free agency and we still don’t know how much Sarver can spend and how much he’s willing to spend ( well we never know that one).
Don't trade Dudley!
He may not be a 20/10,
but I think he’ll come back next year even better. I expect he’ll increase both his points and boards next year. 15-16/8-9.
I think Frye can improve, but I doubt he'll become a 20-10 guy.
He’s already 27. At best he becomes a very good role player.
I’ve said it before and I’m going to say it again.
The most important thing this off-season is that the FO finds a starting caliber PF, so Frye can return to the bench. That doesn’t mean I don’t think Frye can start. He can, but the bench needs him more. Both Dragic and Brooks have played their best basketball for us when Channing Frye was with them. He is our true sixth man. He is the key to the bench, but he’s also the key to our offense. Problem is, he can’t do everything and we’re not going to be a good team if he’s the key to everything. We need to find someone else to be the key to our offense, so Frye can get the bench going again. He needs a good rebounder next to him though.
Resign Lou!
With that said, we need a go to guy and he’s got to be a PF. This guy should be the key to our offense like Amar’e was.
Don't trade Dudley!
I agree.
However all depends on trades ,money etc. In my opinion Suns will start to rebuild team in small steps. I always mentioned that Suns need SG first and second PF. I think Suns will get lucky if they’ll acquire good SG. Until Suns won’t acquire PF, Frye can play it ( he can improve, maybe 15/8) but bigger challenge for Suns is work on defense (by big D).
Right now we're okay at SG
With Dudz starting and Carter giving us important clutch minutes and Pietrus we have guys that can, at the leest, be called serviceable.
We are, however, absolutely dreadful at PF. Our 3 current PF’s are as follows: a center that plays like a guard, one Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flaling Tube Man with added dunk action and a rookie that has been injured all season long.
I disagree.
Our SG are inconsistently. Dudley showed good asket diring last games , but I’d want to see how he can play with more preasure.About Carter. He had good games but if we can count on him during season? Pietrus – good defender but he didn’t show too much. Will Carter and Pietrus play with Suns next season? IMO SG should be first.
Pietrus will pick up his player option.
Who’d turn down that money?
And VC is gone.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I am surprised to hear that
he could get a multi year deal at 3 million a year at least. He’d get much more money in the long term. He probably won’t play much this season anyways and could be on a more legitimate contender. I hope he does decline his option.
"You need to get real!"
You could be right.
Maybe he does think long-term. But I think he’ll probably pick up the option. He’s still young enough that he can get another contract afterward.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
as a team, we are loaded with quality role players, in order to transition after the Nash era, were gonna need a new superstar somewhere
Big time FAs dont really want to come to PHX, so were gonna have to get lucky in the draft in the next couple years. Either were gonna have to,in the next couple years, package some of our developed role players/expiring contracts together and get a star. This will be difficult and were gonna need to get lucky that a team REALLY needs to get rid of a super star al la denver this year, though new york probably gave up too much. Or were gonna have to clean house and stock up on draft picks and totally rebuild. its a tricky situation
I do think Channing can continue to improve.
He’s not going to come back a stud post player and 20 ppg scorer. BUt we saw subtle improvements in his game throughout this year, and another off-season will only help. He has shown an incredible ability to improve his game since he came to PHX. As soon as he gets here he jacks up over 100 3s and drains quite a few of them. Then this year he came back a better defender. And during the season, he started to show glimpse of an ability to take a dribble and pull-up and score in the post when he had a mismatch.
That being said, I think he could realistically put in a 15 and 8 season, and do so without relying entirely on 3s for his points.
I also respectfully agree Beavis above about us HAVINGto get a go-to PF. We do need a go-to guy, but I think we would be fine with that being a SG or a PF. Obviously a PF would probably work a bit better, but I don’t think it’s the be-all-end-all. We need to look at all the options, and go with the best available player, whether that is the SG or PF.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Oh, and I'd just like to say I've been on the Channing bandwagon for a while now.
I KNEW he was going to step up and give us more this year. Or at least I hoped he would.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Need a SG or a PF?
I think the solution would be to resign J-rich in the offseason, since his contract is coming off the books for the magic, and we’ve seen that he’s able to shoot the three, drive and post up. We should also consider trading for Amare, cause it seems like the Knicks are unhappy with his playoff performance that they feel they can rebuild around Melo. After this happens, we’ll have filled our woes with scoring without Nash, utilizing mismatches, and having a go-to scorer (maybe 2 with J-rich). Make it happen Babby.
by Siebert on Apr 23, 2011 1:49 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Great plan!
We just offer them Childress and Warrick back for Amar’e and I’m sure they’ll take it because that’s who we replaced him with in the first place.
Don't trade Dudley!
Channing Frye might replace Amare BUT
he simply cannot replace Amare.
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