Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

The Diverging Tales Of Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash

Congrats, Trix!!

Congratulations to the Dallas Mavericks and their fans for beating the Miami Heat and winning the 2011 NBA Finals. We can only imagine the thrill (because the Suns are the oldest NBA franchise never to win an NBA title so all we have is our imagination and vicarious living through others). 

There's a gazillion different angles to discuss on the day after Game 6. LeBron James choking and the entire debate about his place in history. The "stars vs. team" battle and how that played out between the Heat and Mavericks. Jason Terry backing up his big mouth. The massive amount of payroll Mark Cuban has taken on over the years to get his team here. And of course, the joy Shawn Marion is feeling right about now.

The one thing I keep coming back to though, is the divergent paths taken by Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash since the two parted ways in 2004.

Dirk is an NBA Champion today while Nash has spent the entire postseason traveling with his new girlfriend and taking in the sites from Jamaica to Vancouver to Miami to Boston. While Steve is surely having fun playing Find Waldo, there's little doubt where he would rather be right now -- nursing a hangover after a night of celebrating an NBA Title. 

So what happened? Where did things go wrong for Steve when they finally went right for his buddy Dirk? 

Here's a few ideas to vote on, but by all means do what you do and leave some insightful comments.

Poll
Why does Dirk Nowitzki have a ring and Steve Nash doesn't?
Dirk's a better player than Steve
234 votes
Dallas is a better city than Phoenix
57 votes
Mark Cuban instead of Robert Sarver
1021 votes
David Stern stole Nash's chance in 2007
435 votes
Luck, fate, whatever --- it just worked out this way
511 votes

2258 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 266 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I'd say Cuban played a big role.

Cuban wrote up the cheques that Dallas needed to win; not sure Sarver would do the same thing.

---
Revenge is ice cream.

by HaikenEdge on Jun 13, 2011 10:45 AM MST reply actions  

Cuban and Stern

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

by JoeCB1991 on Jun 13, 2011 10:56 AM MST reply actions  

DEFENSE

Yes, Cuban, Stern, luck etc is all a part of it, but the big reason is defense.

The Mavs could play it and the Suns never could. I’d honestly say every single Suns playoff team since 2004 was more talented than the Mavs teams. The only difference is defense. Kidd is not as good as Nash as a PG, but he can defend.

Defense wins championships. I pray for an era when it doesn’t.

by Toon Army Sun on Jun 13, 2011 11:15 AM MST reply actions  

To clarify

I’m not at all blaming Nash and would never dream of it. He’s a unique and superb offensive point guard who I wouldn’t swap for any other point guard from this era.

Head to head, he’s better than Kidd. But one area where Kidd excels is defensively, and in the playoffs that makes a difference.

I’m not saying if Nash could play defense like Kidd we’d have seen a title either, we lacked good defense in several positions.

by Toon Army Sun on Jun 13, 2011 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I would also add that the Suns never could play good defense because they didn't have a defensive anchor.

Did you notice that the Mavs didn’t win the title until they got Tyson Chandler? Defensive anchors usually come from the C position and in some cases the PF position.

Blaming Steve Nash because he couldn’t play defense is ridiculous. Comparing him to Kidd is also ridiculous. Kidd is not the best player on that Mavs team. Dirk Nowitzki is and he’s not a good defender either.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 11:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Our defense really wasn't that bad.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jun 13, 2011 1:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure a 90Million dollar payroll helps.

The Mavs lost their 2nd leading scorer in Butler, their back-up center (could be starting anywhere else too) and their lighting fast up and coming guard who injects electricity into his teammates like a Hollywood doc injects other things into rich women – yet because of the cash hog owner who manufactured ‘the deepest team in the league’ it didn’t matter at all. Any other team in the playoffs loses their 2nd leading scorer – or just one of those 3 things the Mavericks lost and they are done-zo.

What bugs me is that 99% of the world which was rooting for the Mavericks were actually rooting for 1 dude on the other team to fail. That’s amazing… and sad.

I didn’t root for the Mavericks. As a Suns fan I hate the Mavericks. Always have, always will. I hope ya’ll had fun on the bandwagon… I personally am tired of conceited stars and being surrounded by a society/culture that can’t wait to destroy those in the spotlight – whether I’m referring to LeBron, The Prez of the U.S., some local Governor, a random contestant on American Idol, or the bum in the street – it’s getting old.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 11:16 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

I didn’t root for the Mavericks. As a Suns fan I hate the Mavericks. Always have, always will.

I have to agree with this one. Unfortunately, I couldn’t really root for either team in this Finals which made it harder to watch. I found myself simply rooting for then game to remain tied at all times.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Completely disagree. It was one of the few times ever there was a team worth rooting for in the finals. If it was Spurs or Lakers vs Miami, I wouldnt have even watched it. This was the most enjoyable finals in a long, long time.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Or worse...

Lakers vs Boston

"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier

by ajcarleton on Jun 13, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions  

so sick of those teams

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I've obvioulsy made my feelings on the Mavericks issue very clear

This captures my feelings pretty well too:

What bugs me is that 99% of the world which was rooting for the Mavericks were actually rooting for 1 dude on the other team to fail. That’s amazing… and sad.

Good work Euty.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 12:01 PM MST up reply actions  

yes, this

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

I will admit that I was rooting for the Mavericks because I wanted to see Lebron fail.

But I realized that my sheer joy afterwards wasn’t because the Heat lost, but because I was actually happy for the Mavericks. In forcing myself to root for Dallas, I came to genuinely like their team. Even…(gulp)… Jason Terry.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 5:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Take it back.
Even…(gulp)… Jason Terry.

That’s almost unforgivable.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 5:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm sure that once the season starts again, my mind will clear.

But for now, I’m truly happy for all of them.

You’ve got to admit, he had a hell of a game.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 5:51 PM MST up reply actions  

But I still want to take a giant pair of scissors to that stupid headband,

if that’s any consolation.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

WOAH WOAH WOAH.

I never said that.

I said he wasn’t bad looking.

Totally different.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 6:02 PM MST up reply actions  

It's quite alright.

You’re amazing comments in this thread make up for it.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 6:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Why, thank you.

I checked out your blog and see we’re coming from about the same place on the topic.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 6:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Ah, thank you for checking it out!

It’s been sitting there empty for quite some time and I just finally got the courage and started it up last night because I don’t have much opportunity to express myself in my crazy, irrational-ness.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 10:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I checked it out too.

It’s awesome lol. I should probably start my own blog. It’d be the weirdest mix of basketball, video games, and girl talk.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks so much!

And you should totally make one!
I’d read it! lol

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 10:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Girl talk eh?

Should be interesting

I go vroom-vroom again!

by noonoo on Jun 14, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't think there's been a more loathsome player for the Nash-era Suns

I will admit he’s way better than I ever thought, but he still disgusts me like no other.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Jun 13, 2011 6:14 PM MST up reply actions  

There is no player in the league that you loathe more than Jason Terry?

(I’m not asking that to be a smart-a**. I’m just genuinely curious.)

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 10:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Lebron trumps every player in the league on my list of those I despise.

Terry is in the top 3.

I happened to dislike/hate/loathe/despise Lebron since he came in the league, so it was waaaay before this Decision bullcocky.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 10:17 PM MST up reply actions  

I mean, I definitely hate Jason Terry under normal circumstances,

but there are many players I dislike much, much more.

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 10:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Kobe’s still alpha dog for me

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:03 PM MST up reply actions  

There is nothing I do not despise about Jason Terry

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jun 13, 2011 6:26 PM MST up reply actions  

well

who do you guys hate more, Terry or Jeryd Bayless? I used to hate Terry but man he earned my respect from his play. He also earned my respect in deferring the attention to his teammate Dirk.

by hear_seeker on Jun 23, 2011 12:10 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't really like Lebron (don't hate him though), but it is getting old. They got leave him alone.

Too much attention has been put on his failure and the Heat’s failure than Dallas winning their FIRST title. That’s unfair and not right.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm probably the biggest Lebron hater on this site

but I had a feeling Dallas would take it if they managed to beat the Thunder. They definitely deserve their ring. Hating on Lebron just happens to be more fun.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

I didn't really want either team to win.

Seeing Marion and Terry win a ring was just… ugh….

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree on Terry, and there was a time I hated Matrix, but I’ve forgiven him. I can even tolerate Terry…to a point.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm glad for Marion

He was the difference maker for the Mavs this postseason too. He looked like the Matrix again in the postseason. Without his scoring, they don’t win a bunch of those games. And Stojakavic was useless in the later rounds almost completely.

Suns v Spurs in the 1st round. Make this happen.

by jc79 on Jun 13, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree that people should give Dallas more credit and focus on that more, but I don’t agree that Lebron is some poor baby who’s getting abused by the media. He brought all of this on himself with The Decision and the party where they anointed themselves winners of the next 8 titles. Please. He’s a grown man and deserves the criticism. He and Wade both need to grow up. Mocking Dirk? Beyond childish.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree, Beav.

Leave LeBron alone. Sure he’s lost two finals and was a no show this year, but look at their team…they’re only going to get better. Half of the Finals they looked lost and confused. I think this year for the Heat was a trial run. They’re going to win at least 3 titles in the next 6 years.

by NickyPinks on Jun 13, 2011 1:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Lebron choked more than any other player with his talent in the finals ever. He deserves more criticism than he is getting. Pathetic failure.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:45 AM MST up reply actions  

And it's a huge news story.

He’s a global icon, one of the most physically gifted basketball players ever, and he and his team hyped the hell out of themselves. His continued failure is a story. Whether anyone is tired of it or not, people will read, watch and listen to all this LeBron stuff. That’s why there is the media feeding frenzy.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 11:51 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes. Completely agree. These people have a job to do and are doing what anyone else in their shoes would do and what their bosses expect. It’s news. Bottom line.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Rec

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 6:00 PM MST up reply actions  

wait..
I personally am tired of conceited stars and being surrounded by a society/culture that can’t wait to destroy those in the spotlight

you would rather society adore conceited stars? have I been doing this wrong? I’m confused…

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 12:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Media created the wolf...

and the rest of the sheep just got in line.

by NickyPinks on Jun 13, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions  

rofl. Good one. Yep, Lebron is a complete innocent who has never done anything wrong, and should be adored by everyone, most of all, everyone in Cleveland. All hail the king! Not.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions  

No

I would rather you read the whole sentence – they are easier to understand that way.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

ok...
I personally am tired of conceited stars and being surrounded by a society/culture that can’t wait to destroy those in the spotlight – whether I’m referring to LeBron, The Prez of the U.S., some local Governor, a random contestant on American Idol, or the bum in the street – it’s getting old

still not making alot of sense me, but no need to be a jerk…

oh well

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

I hope you don't think I'm a jerk because I hold a different opinion -

and if you want a non-abrasive response it’s usually not cultivated by posting an abrasive question.

I stated I am tired of both ‘conceited stars’ AND the society that can’t wait to destroy them.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

actually I was trying to get some clarification on what your opinion was

and I think you took my question far more abrasively than it was intended..which was just run of the mill snark…

such is life..

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm a douche man. My bad.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:40 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

this

(lol)

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

that’s a little strong. More like misguided. :)

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Nah.

You’re just the worst person ever. Like a worse LeBron James.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

not possible…lol (kidding)

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

I’ve liked the Mavs ever since Nash played for them and have always liked them since.
So your statement isn’t really accurate imo

by Adi C on Jun 13, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions  

? This is what sports is. It is competitive. Fans are rabid fans of their team/s. They root for people and teams and they root against people and teams. Should we all say, oh Lebron, it doesn’t matter. We’re all winners just for playing the game. Like we did back in third grade?

Please. He is a grown man. If he can’t take the heat, get out the kitchen. But he can take it. He purposely does things he knows will make him a villain, like turning on the city that raised him, drafted him, and worshipped him just to team up with a couple of other stars to try to win some rings. He could have been the man himself and ended up winning titles, but he chose not to. He chose to go to D. Wade’s team and play second fiddle.

Now, his legacy will never compare to Jordan’s. But like Jordan, I do think he thrives on the criticism and feeds off of it. I think he wants to be the villain. Let him have his wish and stop preaching love and unity and whatever. That is not real life.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Love and unity is what I teach my kids and what my family experiences more often than not.

That’s pretty ‘real life’ to me.

BBB – you sound pretty excited about this whole argument, not sure anything I say at this point will add value to the conversation.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I just am surprised there are any Lebron apologists out there. I guess they are all on this site. I hadn’t heard of any until I read this thread. I just don’t get what you are saying, at all.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Never said I was a LeBron apologist

And it’s crazy that just because I don’t agree with the intensity of the criticism directed towards him – it’s assumed I love him. Not true. I respect him as a player just as I do Kobe, and when you can get a triple doubles in a Finals loss and still be the butt of the failure to me that’s a little too much and predicated on a deeper hatred for the player as a person.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

I would say then that you are not like most sports fans at all. Someone like Kobe or Bron, you are for them or against them. That is how it works. That is a natural reaction. You are like a different species. I am not sure what to make of it. But I do not agree with it at all.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

And I’d say I am interested in it because it’s about so much more about sports. This is about life. This is a worthwhile discussion, especially when there ain’t going to be no ball for a while.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:46 PM MST up reply actions  

just out of curiosity Euts..
That’s amazing… and sad

what’s amazing/sad about this?

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I'll try to make this 'short' - the real answer could double as a dissertation

My feeling of disgust is one of sociological disposition.

Why is is amazing? Because 9.9 out 10 people you’ll talk to didn’t root for the Mavericks because they were big Dallas fans or because they think Dirk is awesome – but because they didn’t want to see that arrogant/traitor/conceited/wannabe/terrible-basketball-player and actor/never-gonna-be-Jordan/whatever-guy do something he said he would do. 99 percent it what I estimate but go ahead and see if I’m not far off and tell me that isn’t amazing. Even Kobe after being hit with rape charges didn’t take as much heat as James is taking for having a big foot in his mouth.

Why is it sad? Our society is constantly looking to tear down whatever is in the spotlight. Why do people watch Jersey Shore, the Real World, or any reality tv/talk show? Why do people watch TMZ or read tabloids or the entertainment section in the paper? The reason is overwhelmingly along the lines of that we want to see somebody fail, make themselves look dumb, do something inappropriate or do something that either compromises their personal values or those perceived of (a) society.

Why do we watch those 24/7 political channels or radio shows? Because we can’t wait for the next scandal, who’s corrupt – who laundered money – who made a bad decision or to hear about who screwed up this time by sending pictures of their ‘no-no’ parts etc. etc. etc.

I hope that’s enough to paint the picture. All of that has transferred to the sports arena as well and now look what’s happening to college football – to NFL screw-ups in jail or broke with 700 illegitimate kids – a Major League Baseball system clouded by rampant drug use – olympic conspiracies – bla bla bla cheating – and we eat it up and now arguably one of the most talented players ever in basketball being collectively hated by the world and whose every speck of unachieved potential goes wildly celebrated on every channel and on every facebook status update. It’s sad.

Let’s spend some more time talking about what a great dude Dirk is or how charitable Channing Frye is etc. But that’s just not headline news to those who click out of curiosity…

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:22 PM MST up reply actions   3 recs

It’s human nature. I got no problem with it whatsoever. As far as basketball goes, most superstars, especially those who have been successful, have been hated by a large number of people. This is only natural. When someone is the Lakers or Yankees, you either love ‘em or hate ’em. There ain’t much room in the middle ground. I don’t think Lebron has a problem with people hating him. Jordan certainly didn’t. I don’t think he wants or needs your pity.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

That's fine.

I have no pity for LeBron – that’s why I said my feeling of disgust is one of sociological disposition. It’s sad for society.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:47 PM MST up reply actions  

I’d say it’s a necessary part of human reality. I’d say without hate, there is no love.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

That's true - and don't mistake me for hostile because I'm not trying to be

I agree – but know that I’m a history and a philosophy major and I read crap about it for fun. Hate is a fundamental part of reality as we know it – that’s true, but the level of hate is what I am expressing disagreement with, not it’s existence.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm on an East Bay Ray Reccing Spree!

I’m loving your comments!

Blog: www.nbagirl.tumblr.com
Follow me on Twitter: @PhxSunsGirl84

"Great things come to those who work."

by Dragic_is_Magic on Jun 13, 2011 6:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I just can't stand how phony he is

If we he would just own up to his personality he would be so much easier to stomach.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Jun 13, 2011 6:24 PM MST up reply actions  

wow. Salute

I don't know what to put in my sig.

by shawndy on Jun 14, 2011 1:45 AM MST up reply actions  

ok that's certainly valid

I wonder if I can give you another take on things to consider:

Re: Amazing: there are 48 states with no rooting interest, but still watched the finals. Unless you had a specific reason to love or hate either team, you’re watching out of curiosity or for the love of the game. Ok. So now, one team is full of guys that are perceived as kind of arrogant jerks ( rightly or wrongly ) and one that’s not.

People tend to dislike jerks and would rather see them fail than not. And the jerkier they act, the more people want to see them fail. This happens pretty much every finals, or really in any major sporting event ( even if it seems more magnified for this one ). So, even if you found it sad, it really isn’t all that out of the norm, which makes it less than amazing, to me at least.

Re: Sad: It’s been said, but I think it’s in our nature, and our society to try to tear down those in the spotlight. However, that same nature is also what drives us to root for the underdog and and dislike bullies.

 Personally, I’d have been alot more sad if the entire nation fell in love with a team filled with superstars coasting their way to a championship and dismantling a team of aging veterans in last great chance for a title.

 just another take to consider…

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Good stuff

I respect that. There are a lot of preconceived notions that follow both teams that played in the finals – sometime we don’t all agree on the validity of those and I understand that.

For starters – I didn’t think LeBron was a traitor for leaving Cleveland or less of a legend for teaming up with Wade, I did/do think he’s arrogant and says all the wrong things. Also – I don’t for a minute buy the argument that the Mavs were underdogs – money talks. That’s why the Mav’s survived even after normally-team-crippling injuries. Those are just a few of my preconceived notions that help form my position.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions  

It was more the way he handled everything.

A simple “I’m going to Miami. I don’t plan on staying so do with that what you will. It’s been a great 7 years. Best of luck in the future” would’ve sufficed. None of his teammates, who are supposedly his friends, even knew what he was going to do. The entire franchise had to wait until “The Decision” to find out, so it felt like a stab in the back to them because they were somewhat humiliated on national television.

As for the underdogs thing, I agree on the Mavericks. They faced a lot of heavy hitters this season in the Blazers, Lakers, and the Thunder. After sweeping the Lakers, they should’ve been considered a favorite for the title IMO.

I’m sure a majority of the fans who watched the game were in it to see Lebron fail, but c’mon. 28 teams didn’t make it to the Finals, so that’s over 90% of the NBA fanbase approximately. As much as I appreciate good basketball, it’s not fun watching a game where you’re not emotionally invested. That’s why I’ve avoided the playoffs for the most part. I only watched parts of the Finals because my dad kept talking about it and dragged me into the discussion.

Everyone has their own reason for watching the Finals. Everyone’s cause for supporting the Mavericks will eventually lead to their antagonizing Lebron.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions  

agreed on Cleveland, MV3. And as for Dallas, after game 2 of the Lakers, I said, this is the best team in the NBA right now, and they are going to win the title this year. I wasn’t quite as prophetic as Jason Terry, but yeah, they’re good.

As for the playoffs, this has been one of the most enjoyable playoffs in a long time, even without Phoenix. I thought it would suck, but it was amazing. The Finals was the first one I have watched every game in in a long, long time. All of it was phenomenal. It was the most interesting year that could have happened without the Suns being in it. It was great.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:43 PM MST up reply actions  

it's interesting that although the mavs had the higher salary

Miami still had superior starters. If you need a refresher on the atmosphere pre finals, look up the stat geek predictions:

 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?page=Smackdown-11

the only ones to pick the Mavs was 1 guy who was just manuevering for the purpose of the bet and the writer’s mother, who doesn’t watch basketball.

For extra lulz, check out Hollinger’s picks for the mavs for the entire playoffs. ouch…random chance would have netted him a pick or two.

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions  

not the only guy. John Barry had them in 6, and I had them in 7. But I know what you mean.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions  

oh sorry, i was meaning specifically that gorup of writers

yea on the espn site barry, stein and a few others called it…

man..jon barry called something correctly..my world is rocked.

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I know. I hate Barry. Love Stein though. One of the few that I almost always agree with.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 5:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I rooted for Trix

Pretty hilarious that gets less respect as a Mav, with just as big an ego.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Jun 13, 2011 2:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Like he honestly notices.

He probably wonders when the Suns changed their colors to green and blue and how Steve Nash grew so tall and German.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

LeBron's talent compounds his ego and arrogance. That's why people are so emotionally attatched.

You’ve got to find something wrong with those who are superior. Oh and when you find that ‘something’? Clutch it like a fat kid clutches tootsie rolls.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

What I find ironic about your posts in this thread, Euty

Is that, in railing against hatred, your tone has been a little hostile. Just my opinion, but I find that contradiction to be jarring, and I sense I’m not the only one.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

agreed. I think it’s very strange.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

How have I been a little hostile?

I responded to Fritzy with some spice.. but beyond that I’m curious.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

I guess it’s just kind of a contradiction to say you are so disgusted that people get so disgusted with people and things.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

thats disgusting

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

There needs to be an inquiry.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Your opening salvo was a broad swipe at fans who cheered for the Mavs.

And then you said you hate the Mavs and always will, followed by imploring the rest of us to not try to tear others down. That was my initial response was getting at. Your hatred of the Mavs is OK and our hatred of LeBron isn’t? How can you pronounce your hatred of something and then rail against hatred in the next sentence?

Listen to Marvin, Euty. Only love can conquer hate!

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

That’s a really good statement, much more eloquent than I was able to provide.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Then you guys should love LeBron right :)

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

No, I'll continue to hate LeBron.

And I’ll be accepting of other people’s irrational sports fan hatred of whoever they so choose.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Even those who hate Steve Nash or Grant Hill?

For whatever reason?

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions  

who hates VC?

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

That's just blasphemous.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Now that's just Vinsane.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Mama, there goes that man……hahahaha

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions  

FYI. I'm a Phoenix native and lived a good portion of my 20s in Seattle.

By the time I moved to the Bay area in 2001, my sports fan allegiances were already set. The only team here that I remotely cheer for is the San Jose Sharks, but then I only watch about 20 minutes of hockey total per year.

If we’re talking hatred, I loathe the Raiders.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I can't fucking stand the Columbus Blue Jackets

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Basketball's the only sport I truly watch.

And I couldn’t cheer for the Warriors. I don’t know if it was because they sucked when I was young or whatever, but I couldn’t do it. Steve Nash made me a fan of the game, but the Suns are where my heart’s at now. Even if they enter a decade of lottery-bound seasons.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I got no problem with the Warriors

But I can see where they’d be a tough team to latch on to when they’ve been terrible forever. I enjoyed their playoff run a few years ago, and I respect their fanbase because they’re a dedicated bunch despite all the crappy basketball they’ve been forced to endure.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions  

don't worry, mark jackson is comin to change all that

and win your loyalty

Mamma, there goes East Bay Ray!

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 3:36 PM MST up reply actions  

flagged!

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 5:06 PM MST up reply actions  

HAND DOWN....Fritzy DOWN!

fuck…now I have to flag myself

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

dont worry

it’s a make or miss league

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 6:04 PM MST up reply actions  

That’s a grown man move

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 6:14 PM MST up reply actions  

double flagged...

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 6:23 PM MST up reply actions  

I only through 2

then went outside and kicked the first cat i saw

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 6:45 PM MST up reply actions  

AND......

……It’s GOOD!!!!!!

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 9:15 PM MST up reply actions  

You got through 2? You’re a masochist.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Definitely.

A bunch of my friends are Warriors fans, but they’re constantly annoyed with management and some of the boneheaded moves they make. That playoff run in 07 was pretty spectacular. That was my only true moment of Warrior fandom.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:39 PM MST up reply actions  

lol, they sure are. That arena is crazy. I’ve only been in that one and in Charlotte’s when they had the Hornets. But the Warriors fans are amazing.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting. I am near San Jose as well, but am not from here. Born and raised in WV, lived in OH. I do like the Warriors, fun team, but the Suns are my team. I finally watched some of the Sharks games in the playoffs this year (on tv) for the first time. I wasn’t very invested, but was still let down. Talk about choke artists.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I hate the horse Barbaro.

Was glad he bit the dust.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Someone needs to learn to respect the 1951 champs.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Bullshit

Tell me who guards Arnie Risen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ROC/1951.html

Then tell me who Arnie Risen is.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

" This summer, I will be taking my talents to Cincinnatti.."

what an arrogant prick.

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

He's a typical Bemidji State University product.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

the harlem globe trotters

really piss me off…so fucking arrogant

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

and

they get all the calls

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Plus they drag little kids into the game.

That’s so damn annoying.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah. If I was a kid, that would piss me off to get dragged into that. Those jerks.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

don't worry

Everyone’s counted the Generals out but this is their year

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions  

that’s so Gaye

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I just spit out my free garbage cookie.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

It's like I'm trying to put sub-topics in my main topic...

and peeps are only seeing the main topic as a contradiction to the sub.

I’m not anti-hate – that’s why I said I hate the Mavs. I hate the Lakers too… and Sasha Vujacic.

I said it was sad that the majority of people rooting for the Mavs were rooting for LeBron to fail and not for the Mavs to win. I never correlated the word hate and lebron – ya’ll did that.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions  

I am not sure what your point is. You said it’s sad that people watch games rooting against someone because they hate them, but then you freely admit you do the same. I don’t get it.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Goodnes bbb...

I thought we went over this above…

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

lol, sorry, but just not sure what you’re trying to say. I mean I kind of understand it, but it doesn’t make sense.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 3:48 PM MST up reply actions  

this is wonderful

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

haha!

I’m now convinced LeBron is the devil!

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Yeah, I Twitter - @Eutychus12

by Eutychus on Jun 13, 2011 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

You should check out the other guy's Lebron videos.

They’re YouTube gold lol

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 4:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow. The power of You Tube is indomitable.

And, damn, that was some funny shit!

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 5:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Maybe this guy will convince you.

His rant is pretty damn powerful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIXtHJ5If-U

Start the video around 9:35. That’s when he begins his rant on Lebron.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 5:10 PM MST up reply actions  

I have to disagree, hc. I think he got a lot of respect this year for what he did, especially in the finals with his defense on Lebron. I think he feels more respected than he has in a long time. Is it warranted? Partially.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

He basically had his contract cut in half

Went from All-Star, All-Third NBA, third best player on a really popular team, to second best player coming off the bench for a team nobody considered till they were up 3-2 in the Finals.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Jun 13, 2011 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

I am one of the ones that rooted for the Mavericks more than against the Heat, because the Mavericks are a real team, fun to watch, and play basketball the way it should be played. In any event, all hatred to the Heat is more than warranted. When you team up playground-style thinking that you are now automatic champions, have a parade and say you will the next 8 titles, and have so many media and fans fawning all over you thinking that it’s already a done deal that you are going to win, anyone who is a real fan of basketball and team sport should root against you. I don’t know how anyone can agree with this who is not already a Lebron/Miami fan or a bandwagoner who jumped on. This is very simple stuff.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm only speaking for myself when I say this,

but I rooted against the Heat not because I wanted to see any one player fail, but because I wanted to see the concept of the super-team fail. I hate the idea of the best players in the NBA trying to team up together. If the Heat had won after their first year together (w/ the 3), I’d have been truly concerned for the NBA. No one wants to watch a league with such an uneven distribution of talent, and I think if the super-team strategy proved effective this quickly, the league would have become even more unevenly distributed than it already is. And I just think that would suck.

But I also rooted for the Mavs cause I think Dirk is awesome, and he’s probably my favorite basketball player that’s not on the Suns.

by iwasneveryoung on Jun 13, 2011 7:05 PM MST up reply actions   3 recs

Totally agree. Great post.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:05 PM MST up reply actions  

this was the best reason to root against the HEAT.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 14, 2011 6:42 AM MST up reply actions  

and it’s already pretty uneven. Don’t need it to be even worse.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 14, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

You don't even know what the real fans are rooting against

The problem I had with James is that he had all the gifts in the world, but never worked hard to refine them. The fact that he’s been in the league for 8 years and still doesn’t have a legit post game exactly proves my point. He didn’t work hard enough to deserve the praises. He wanted a championship and he took the easy way out, which is something I would have understood if he really tried in Cleveland. He hasn’t, and he’s getting paid 16 mil a year (without income tax).

My friend, I personally guarantee you there are more people rooting for the Heat than the Mavs. Most NBA viewers are located overseas and most of them don’t know basketball as much as we do.

I see your point of not rooting for the Mavs but not the one of rooting against Miami. I never liked James for his lack of will to improve. The society adored him for years (a point you failed to mention). Bosh has been overrated for years and only managed to put up numbers. Wade didn’t know how lucky he was with all the help he’s gotten from the refs. Our hatred begins with our passion for basketball.

To be honest, I was on the “Screw Miami” bandwagon until I’ve seen how Nowitzki played in the playoffs. That’s when i started to root for them to win. As much as I want the Suns to win a championship, I want to see a team – from owners to management to players- 100% committed to winning. I’d rather see that commitment giving me hopes than a lucky, phoney championship won out of sheer luck. This is what made the 09-10 team so special (almost, at least).

by JasonDaPsycho on Jun 14, 2011 8:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree regarding the commitment. Nice.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 14, 2011 9:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Cuban and luck.

Despite all of Sarvers awful moves that kept us from becoming even better and having more years at contending we still had some years where we could have taken it, but injuries and suspensions held us back. I would also add that Jim Carry is a better coach than both Mike D and Gentry.

It’s also much harder to build a team around a PG because most of the time they don’t play defense. However, from the years 05-07, Nash was the better player than Dirk Nowitizki.

Cuban was just a great owner. He took risk and did all he could do get a title. Sarver is much more hesitant about what he does with his money. Like I said before, he cared more about the years 2012-13 – 2014-15 than going for a title in 2011 and 2012.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 11:19 AM MST reply actions  

They have arguably the best owner and arguably the best coach. But bringing in Chandler and fortifying the defense put them over the top, as well as how deep they were.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions  

What Steve Nash needs is what Kevin Johnson needed.

The next Charles Barkley to come in a save the day.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 11:25 AM MST reply actions  

Except KJ was 26 when Barkley showed up.

Young talent….remember that?

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions  

We purposely get rid of that in Phoenix. We have a better approach which is secret and no one knows about. It will pay off in like 600 years and then we will every title until the end of time. Man, that’s going to be legen (wait for it) dary!

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

The ownership seems like the obvious difference.

And it isn’t just player salaries. At least as important is that Cuban finally realized that his organization needed stability to improve. Look at the Suns front office changes over the last few years. And, how often does a team make the conference finals like the Suns did last year, then let their leading scorer walk, and then trade away their next leading scorer the following season? If you’re going to constantly play roster roullette, you’d better at least have a stable, competent front office to manage those comings and goings. If not, you go from 54 wins and the WCF to 40 wins the next season.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 11:44 AM MST reply actions  

I agree. They could have traded Kidd and/or Terry and strongly considered it, then decided not to. They brought in one main guy, Chandler, and it was a stroke of genius. We need a small tweak like that, not trade Nash or Gortat.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Cuban has invested in more than just player talent

Mark Cuban’s $s are a big reason for Dallas’ championship, but so is his smarts. I always knew Cuban was into basketball analytics, but Hollinger pointed out today that Cuban has built an organization around it. He hired Rick Carlisle because he was a smart guy who knew how best to use his team and then hired Roland Beech from 82games.com to be on the bench (the bench!). I love organizations that try to use everything at their disposal to get the most of their guys; to get them playing as a team instead of individual all-stars.

It seems to me Phoenix hasn’t invested in this sort of skill in player and team evaluation; which just makes the money we spend seem so random and disappointing (’sup Hakim, Hedo, and Aaron).

by mctrisha on Jun 13, 2011 11:55 AM MST reply actions  

I agree, but I don’t think it’s Sarver being cheap. He has spent a lot on salaries, and didn’t have to sign both Hedo and Chilly, for example. He’s just dumb. He is not a basketball guy and does not understand what it takes to get over the top. Hopefully, the new team in place is doing a better job of convincing him and doing things like getting a defensive coordinator are going to happen and make us much, much better. We have the pieces to at least be middle of the pack in defense. Learn how to F’g playing it.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Oh Sarver isn't cheap.

He cares and spends his money, he just doesn’t care enough to take the risk and like you said and like Amar’e said a couple years ago, “He’s not that smart when it comes to basketball moves.”

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Exactly

Cuban is a big mover behind the scenes in redefining the game of basketball because he’s informed and intelligent; Sarver just spends money on shiny pretty things. I’d rather have a poorer owner that’s smarter than Sarver. The good example here may be Houston, which doesn’t have a huge payroll, but does interesting thing as a basketball organization.

by mctrisha on Jun 13, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions  

or even the spurs for that matter

I believe they spend at a lower level than us but sustain success with smart business and basketball moves

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

I forget who said it..

But in the end, rings are really a measure of franchises, not players. If your primary metric of any player is how many rings they have, your basically saying " it’s the only argument I need, Shawn!"

by Fritzy on Jun 13, 2011 12:25 PM MST reply actions  

I can’t wait to see that movie. My favorite line from the trailer, for sure.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Haha, same.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 3:05 PM MST up reply actions  

I think luck and timing played a huge role

If before the season you had given me my pick of 5 teams to win the title I wouldn’t have put Dallas in that group. Yet they benefited from San Antonio being a regular season team only, the Lakers wilting badly, the Bulls not being ready, and LeBron seriously gagging in the NBA Finals. Cuban threw a bunch of money at the team and it worked out for him. I think they are ultimately one of the 5 worst NBA champions you’re ever going to see and definitely one of the worst in the last 30 years (seriously who do they beat….the ‘99 Spurs?). But you know that old saying – what do they call the guy who finishes last in his med school class? Doctor. Same thing (and yes I’m jealous).

Nash’s three best years were just a bit snakebitten (thus didn’t have the luck element). In 05 they weren’t ready to take on the battle tested Spurs (although having a healthy JJ would have been super). In 06 they lost Stoudemire which helped Dirk get his first Finals appearance and in 07….well we know what happened.

The Cuban/Sarver thing has something to do with it as well. I don’t think Sarver ever would have tried to build the Dallas team that took the floor this season. Hell I’m not sure any owner outside of Cuban would have put this veteran hodge podge together. Good for them that it worked.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 12:30 PM MST reply actions  

Cuban threw money at the team year after year, sooner or later he was going to have success, and good on him. Personally I’m just surprised it happened with Dirk and a retooled roster, because I thought their best chances were beyond them…just like I thought the Suns’ best chances were beyond them until 2010 happened.

The more I think about it the more I think 2010 was the year for us. But like Scott said, the Mavs benefitted from a few teams not being at the races, the Suns didn’t have that (in other words, the Lakers weren’t gash last year).

You need luck in sports, the Suns franchise doesn’t appear to have it.

by Toon Army Sun on Jun 13, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Do I smell a future Scott Howard story about the 5 worst NBA champions of the last 30 years?

Using data and stuff. All due respect, I don’t really know where you’re getting this about the current Mavs team being such a poor representation of a champion. Then again, I’ll admit I haven’t spent much time pondering it.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't think they suck by any means. They are the NBA champs for god's sake

But run through this list and tell me who they take out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions

06 Miami? 99 Spurs?

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I’m not sure, but looking at that list it is pathetic how few teams have won a championship. Thank God someone different did for once. The NBA really needs a more even playing field. A hard salary cap or something similar would be a good start. I hope they get it.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't even know how to make that call.

Except for either doing a bunch of research, or simply pulling it out of my ass. As you know, we never pull stuff out of our ass on this site so that’s not an option, and I don’t have time to research it right now.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Gut feeling would work just fine for me.

What does your “at first blush” instinct reveal?

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

OK, you win.

I hereby give you a virtual cookie.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh snap! You want half? I'm considerate like that.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Nah, you can keep it.

What I didn’t tell you is that I had dropped it on the floor.

by East Bay Ray on Jun 13, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Dick move.

And you let me eat it.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 2:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, let's start with the Spurs...

I still feel like the Mavs would have beaten them in 03 if Dirk hadn’t gotten hurt. He’s always won his head to head matchups with Duncan, and had a huge game 1 in that series when the Mavs took home court away from them. Dallas has always matched up well with SA, beating them on the road in an overtime game 7 in 06, and taking them out in the first round in 09. I’ve little doubt that the Mavs could have handled them in 07, if not for that little hiccup in GS.

The Kobe/Gasol Lakers? Same team they just swept a couple of weeks ago.

The Shaq/Wade Heat? Needed every possible thing in the world to go right for them/wrong for the Mavs to pull out wins of 1, 2, and 3 points. Aside from that series, Dallas has owned Miami in the Wade era, with seven consecutive season sweeps and a 14-3 record.

2004 Pistons? Great defense, but the only time Dirk faced Rasheed Wallace in the playoffs, he had 2 30+ point and 2 40+ point games against him. Dallas beat them three out of four games during their back-to-back Finals runs.

2008 Celtics? Again, Dirk absolutely dominated Garnett in their one playoff matchup, averaging over 33 and 15 in a three game sweep. Marion on Pierce is a good matchup for Dallas, as is Stevenson/Kidd on Allen.

Shaq/Kobe Lakers? …Well, that’s a different story. The only people who could beat them when they were really going was themselves.

Go back much farther and you get into Jordan dynasty territory. Tell you what though, I’d pay money to see Hakeem try to guard Dirk. All my money.

Here’s what people keep forgetting about this Dallas team. If Dirk, Butler, and Roddy stay healthy, they probably win 65 games. This was the best team in the league, one who’s rough spots had more to do with roster churning and experimentation than poor play. So, yeah, I think they match up pretty damn well against any recent champion.

by Big D Bam Bam on Jun 13, 2011 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting.

Congrats on your championship BTW….I’m super jealous. (obviously).

2003 Spurs would be a possibility IMO since they were pretty much a one-star team like you guys (before Parker/Ginobili were really relevant). They relied on Stephen Jackson…zoinks.

If you think the Kobe/Gasol Lakers you just swept were the same as the last couple years then I can do nothing to help you. Those guys fell apart and their coach was mentally checked out. Kobe was not the same guy in 2011 as he was in 2010 and definitely 2009. You pounced and kicked the shit out of them – props for that.

Shaq/Wade Heat I’m sort of giving you above.

2004 Pistons were more than just Sheed. One of the better defensive teams in the last 25 years IMO. You’d have needed more than just Dirk scoring.

08 Celtics – hard to hang your hat on Dallas blasting a shitty Minnesota team.

With the Rockets I’d assume a young Big Shot Bob would have drawn the Dirk assignment. Can’t really picture Dream chasing him around the perimeter.

All academic. You’re doctors and we’re still in med school. Get off our website and go buy some more championship apparel (because that is exactly what I’d be doing in your situation).

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 2:03 PM MST up reply actions  

You seem to have more respect for the Gasol/Kobe Lakers than I do.

Frankly, a lot of Mavs fans were sitting around wondering “what if” after seeing how close you guys came to knocking them out last year. More than a few of us were rooting for you. Those versions of the Lakers always struck me as transitional champions, grabbing a couple of West crowns when the Mavs, Spurs, and Suns were retooling/fighting injuries/getting older.

Respect the hell of them for what they did, but watching those games (the Houston series, for example) you can see that they were always vulnerable to a collapse.

As for the others, all I can say is that I’ve seen various versions of the Mavs matchup with them, and never noticed an enormous talent disparity, mostly because the Mavs almost always had the best player on the floor.

by Big D Bam Bam on Jun 13, 2011 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

It's basically a Kobe thing on the Lakers

I’ve watched the Suns all my life and I’ve only twice seen a player absolutely rip our throats out in a playoff series……Jordan in ‘93 and Kobe in the ’10 WCF. If Kobe was anything less than amazing in last year’s WCF then the Suns go to the Finals.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 2:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree, Kobe played way too well.

I wish we had a defensive stopper to at least make him play a little worse.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I can't tell if you're joking

But I don’t think any individual defender could have played Kobe any better than Grant did.

Achievement is its own reward, pride obscures it.

by hcblankscreen on Jun 13, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions  

oh sure someone could have.

I agree that Grant played Kobe well, but Grant is too nice to get into another player’s head to mess with him mentally. A tougher, meaner player (like Raja Bell in the old days) would hit and bump and grind Kobe into frustration.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 3:58 PM MST up reply actions  

yep, that’s what I thought you meant

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 13, 2011 6:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I think you’re probably right with most of that, Big D. I think they’d match up quite well.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 2:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I think "luck and timing" is too dismissive...

This was a strong title run.

The Dallas Mavericks:
1) set fire to the defending champs in a manner not seen since the Sherman-Atlanta series of 1864.
2) beat teams spearheaded by 4 of the top 5 or 6 players in the league (Kobe, Durant, James, Wade).
3) ultimately beat a Miami team that not only boasted the SuperFriends, but…
4) also choked the life out of the Big 3 Celts and the MVP-led, best record-holding Chicago Bulls in 5 games apiece.

There were no tomato cans in their line to the throne (well, maybe Portland), as opposed to say, the 1999-2003 Lakers and Spurs squads which face some of the arguably worst Eastern Conference Finals winners in the history of the league (seriously, does anyone remember how bad the Eastern Conference used to be? That list says it all).

Of course luck and timing play a part, but historically, this ring is at least as shiny as everyone else’s.

Twitter: @MikeLisboa

by Mike Lisboa on Jun 14, 2011 11:03 AM MST up reply actions  

agreed, and yea, the East has been weak sauce for a long time, since the Bulls had MJ

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 14, 2011 3:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Now kidd got one

Grant Hill needed to win two

You can follow me on twitter.

sports_dude33

thanks

by sports_dude33 on Jun 13, 2011 3:21 PM MST reply actions  

I still have doubts about that 07 team actually being good enough.

They were talented enough, but Diaw really sucked it up in that series.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 13, 2011 3:44 PM MST reply actions  

According to Hoopshype, Pietrus is opting in.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 4:30 PM MST reply actions  

link?

You can follow me on twitter.

sports_dude33

thanks

by sports_dude33 on Jun 13, 2011 4:31 PM MST up reply actions  

link fool

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions  

thanks

You can follow me on twitter.

sports_dude33

thanks

by sports_dude33 on Jun 13, 2011 4:34 PM MST up reply actions  

thanks

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 4:34 PM MST up reply actions  

No surprise there.

He’d have been stupid to opt out.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 4:34 PM MST up reply actions  

5.3M? GROSS

You can follow me on twitter.

sports_dude33

thanks

by sports_dude33 on Jun 13, 2011 4:35 PM MST up reply actions  

I guess so.

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I believe so.

Founder of the Coalition to Light Vince Carter On Fire (CTLVCOF)
RIP Seasons of Discontent

by Scott Howard on Jun 13, 2011 4:38 PM MST up reply actions  

No. 2 pick for peaches then?

"Maybe I’m old school," Nash said, "but I signed a contract to play here and I want to honor it. I feel like I owe it to my teammates and the city and everybody to keep battling until they tell me it’s time to go." STEVE (God of Basketball) NASH

by 2NASHTY on Jun 13, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions  

There's a winner!

Grant Hill: where making MVPs look like wannabes happens.

by NashMV3 on Jun 13, 2011 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

he’d be a fool not to. Definitely happening.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 5:08 PM MST up reply actions  

I voted cause Sarver us our owner.

Maybe he can sell part of it to Charles Barkley. He predicted the Grizz to be in the playoffs and the Dallas to win…so he must know how to pick the right things

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/good_luck_chuck_charles_barkley_wants_to_be_an_nba_owner_some_day/5017876

Twitter: @FredLegittt

by modernage13 on Jun 13, 2011 9:29 PM MST reply actions  

One of the few announcers who “gets it” and says what most of us are thinking :)

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 13, 2011 11:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Not to mention

probably the only guy interested on this franchise other than the people who already works here.

Twitter: @FredLegittt

by modernage13 on Jun 14, 2011 1:29 PM MST up reply actions  

if I had the money, I’d be totally down.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 14, 2011 3:47 PM MST up reply actions  

I would hire Steve Kerr back to help me out

And then when we win a championship, I would pull a Mark Cuban and party with the trophy, fly with it on first class, and sleep next to it at night before putting it on a display case

Twitter: @FredLegittt

by modernage13 on Jun 14, 2011 4:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Kerr had a lot more misses than hits, in his time. But he was really good about envisioning the pieces required to make a cohesive team.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 14, 2011 5:19 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm happy for Dirk.

When the Mavs went out early in the playoffs it was “Dirk is soft” or “Dirk is not a leader”. He may not be a great or even good defender but he is one of the greats to play the game of basketball. One of the most unique skills sets for a seven footer which we may never see again. Cuban stuck by him and now they are champions. Well done Mavs.

by Sunderstruck on Jun 14, 2011 1:12 AM MST reply actions  

It has a little to do with the owner,

Having an owner who is willing to sacrifice his bank account a bit because of how bad he wants one would be nice; but it’s not the real issue. The real issue is the City of Phoenix, this is a transient town, and the ownership has seen from the Cards and D’backs that the people of Phoenix have no loyalties. It sucks to say it but this town may never win when you see how unsupportive this town is when the Suns are one season removed from the conference finals. In poorer and more long-lived cities fans love their team for decades of losing, and we can’t handle five minutes.

by philebarb on Jun 14, 2011 7:32 AM MST reply actions  

Suns guy Rick Welts made a similar comment during an interview about Steve Nash, and how the Suns need to keep him for business reasons because they don’t want to become the Cards or DBacks in terms of ticket sales.

Anyway, he commented how shocked new Pres Lon Babby was that the fans were so up-in-arms over one 40-win season, a year after the conference finals. He went on to say that the Suns had never, in their 40+ year history, blown up the team entirely – because they never believed the fans would hang on during losing years while the team rebuilt with youth.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 14, 2011 7:47 AM MST up reply actions  

It’s just unfortunate. I understand there are great fans here I love my city, but I go to the games and see people near the front not paying attention acting like they think they are in L.A. or South Beach and it discusts me. I want to see a winner like anyone, but I prefer to see my Suns working towards a Chip rather than ensuring we have just enought to make the playoffs every year.

by philebarb on Jun 14, 2011 8:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I really don’t understand why people would go to a game they care nothing about and not even pay attention, especially to sit in the front rows and pay that much money. It makes me sick. I wish I had that kind of money to blow on such whims.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jun 14, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions  

as someone who sits kinda close when he does go (a few games a year), I can tell you that 99% of the people in my general area really are big fans and they do care about the entire game. Yet, if the team is not running and gunning, they stay fairly quiet. They are season ticket holders, and hit – for the most part – all 41 home games + preseason and postseason. If the team is lackadaisical, the fan base will be too. And really, if you’re expecting to win 50 games a year (as Phoenix fans expect), it’s hard to get excited over every single play.

I know, I’m making excuses. Basically, I’m saying the in-game fan base is spoiled. Probably me included.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Jun 14, 2011 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

A couple thoughts:

1) Steve may not have a ring but he does have 2 mvps he wouldn’t have had if not for D’Antoni and SSOL. This might be a good time to point out that William Freakin’ Bedford has a ring.

2) Welts is full of crap. If we didn’t blow up the team after the drug scandal in the 80’s, I have no idea what constitutes a blowing up. What we didn’t have was a long drought because that front office restocked us with good players.

3) While Phoenix may only halfheartedly embrace the Cards, D-Backs and Coyotes (representing leagues that came very late to the party), there has never been a shortage of fan support for the Suns. The NBA took a chance on us in ‘68, so we grew up with the Suns and they’ve grown up with us. Look at how many of us are still here commenting and reading on a daily basis months after the end of a pretty dreadful season.

New York, the other Planet Orange.

by suns68 on Jun 14, 2011 10:51 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Sarver

It starts and ends with Sarver. He sold our picks for cash, ruined multiple championship chances and relied on an aging star to draw fans into the stadium.

by JasonDaPsycho on Jun 14, 2011 8:01 PM MST reply actions  

Two number 1's to Seattle (OK City),

Luol Deng to Chicago, Rondo to Boston, Can the Suns keep all 4 no. 1’s, no, however can we not trade everyone? Turk, Warrick also were horrible signings.
 Sarver gets my vote.

by Grockcubs on Jun 15, 2011 6:19 PM MST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog devoted to all things Phoenix Suns.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

417645_122115147913687_122115027913699_63363_1431084468_n_small
Phoenix Suns Jerseys

Recent FanPosts

L_small
How to win a championship...
Phxchip_small
More 2012-2013 Ideas: Power Forward Spot
Small
What kind of one-sided trade can you envision?
Phxchip_small
What Free Agents to Go After???
Cat-s_1__small
How was kobe not ejected after going for Faried's head?!?
Phxchip_small
Possible Plan to Help Thin Out Our Roster Needs
1300861821-62_small
Thank You BSOTS. Thank You Phoenix Suns.
Cat-s_1__small
The Quest for the Ring...
Raja_small
NBA Draft 2012

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Friend Us On Facebook

Follow us on Twitter

Follow BrightSideSun on Twitter

RSS Feeds

Bright Side Of The Sun Feeds


Managers

Seth_twitter_pic_4_small Seth Pollack

13531_1236944896270_1608674153_605227_1328752_n_small Wil Cantrell

Editors

Gortat_1_small East Bay Ray

Authors

Eutychus_logo_small Eutychus

1216horry-autosized258_small Alex Laugan

Photo_small 7footer