Phoenix Suns Abused Bynum But Stifled By Walton; Breaking Down Late Loss To Lakers
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 9:34 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage
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PrintThe Phoenix Suns look like they turned a corner after the road loss last week to the Dallas Mavericks. The Suns played VERY well to blow out the Portland Trail Blazers and Milwaukee Bucks at home and then went into Los Angeles and played a pretty good game against the Lakers.
The Suns obviously lost in L.A. but looked much better than they did against the Mavericks and ultimately fell victim to this team's biggest flaw -- lack of late game scoring options.
We'll get into exactly what happened in those final few minutes when the Suns were thumped 16-1 in the final 6:27 of the game, but first let's recognize all the things that have improved in that last week:
- The offense has a MUCH better flow mostly because Steve Nash has returned from the (near) dead and Channing Frye has arrived for the season.
- Marcin Gortat's offensive game since having the splint removed from his thumb has been impressive and improved from last season. He's making great decisions with the ball and passing well when covered, and he's shooting 32-46 (.696) in his last four games after starting 20-38 (.526) in his first five.
- Gortat's shooting a career-high 85.7% at the rim but he's also at a career-high 86.5% assisted rate (percent of his shots that are assists for someone else).
- The lack of being able to create his own shot (a problem shared by the entire roster) is the Suns biggest offensive flaw BUT there have been a few signs that Marcin's post game might (MIGHT) be improved. Lets give it a few more games without the splint on his thumb and see.
- Defensively, the Suns did a very solid job against the Lakers not named Kobe and honestly, when Kobe is hitting shots like that you just tip your hat and pray that he will eventually shoot himself into a stupor. LA shot 48.8% from the field but only 42.9% when you remove Kobe's numbers.
- The rotations in the post against Bynum were very good. If the game plan was to hold Bynum and Gasol in check and pray that Kobe doesn't go off, it worked (except for the praying part).
- Bynum had 30 minutes but only 12 points and 8 rebounds, which is quite an accomplishment.
- What KILLED Bynum was his inability to defend the pick and roll. When he sagged off, Nash hit open shots. When he tried to hedge the screen, he was too slow and Nash was able to beat the trap.
- The bench played well with Hakim Warrick and Shannon Brown adding 19 points and Ronnie Price playing well; the Suns were +3 with him on the floor (and Nash on the bench) which is GREAT.
- Big props to Mike Brown (not a coach I am fond of) for benching Bynum and playing Luke Walton at the four. Walton and Gasol were able to effectively trap Nash on the pick and roll and the guys rotating behind them were good.
- The Suns weren't able to take advantage of Walton playing the four because Frye in the post is still Frye in the post. In the future, I would expect to see Markieff Morris in situations like this to prevent teams from going small to defend the pick and roll better. Morris, however, had a horrible game (0-4) and wasn't an option late, and Frye was shooting well. Morris has to become the guy here to relieve the pressure and score in the paint. He's the only guy on the roster that can do it.
- The Suns eventually decided to double Kobe but it was too late. That's a really tough call since he's such a good passer and the Lakers (like the Mavs with Dirk) make it hard to double him.
- Grant Hill was the guy the Lakers left open in their rotations defending the pick and roll and he simple didn't have the legs on his shot to make them pay. Grant was 1-12 in the game, which KILLED the Suns. Dudley wasn't much better (2-7) but it was just too much to ask Grant to chase Kobe around and still make the open shots the Lakers were giving him late in the game.
Phoenix Suns come undone in 4th against Los Angeles Lakeres - Arizona Republic
"I'm just tired a little bit out there," Hill said. "I still have a ways to go to get my conditioning. No excuses. I got good looks. I just have to make them. I didn't run until three days before camp so I'm still getting my legs. Obviously, it didn't help having to chase him around but I've done it before and been able to be more effective on the offensive end."
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But at least the Suns have worked through a lot of other glaring problems quickly and in this game were simple beat by their biggest flaw which is a roster/talent issue. Markeiff Morris stepping up in a game like this and taking advantage of a smaller four is the Suns’ only counter move. Let’s hope he gets there.
True on Morris. He played a bad offensive game, and will be better in the future.
But don’t forget Michael Redd! He can save the season!
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
haha let's wait until he plays before calling him the savior.
I believe that Michael Redd will do well for this team. He’s a great shooter but there is a reason why he wasn’t signed. He used to be able to create his own shot off the dribble but with all these injuries I question his ability to do that now.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
yeah, I was using a bit a sarcasm there
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 11, 2012 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
No fair claiming sarcasm
just because Blankman pointed out the possible fallacy in your expectations of Redd.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
claiming sarcasm is the #1 fallback for the dimwitted
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I believe coachj14 pointed that out to me last March.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 5:12 PM MST up reply actions
Memory of a lawyer...
And the flamethrower of a pyro…nice combination…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Redd can save the season
I agree completely with you Alex. Brown is not a team player and everytime he gets the ball all he is thinking of is ‘shoot it’. This has already made it clear to Gentry whose minutes Redd will get. Once he gets his legs and shot going he will move to the starting 2 guard. Duds is a hustle guy but talent prevails. I agree with Seth also that the only real flaw was Morris not adjusting, which we know he can given enough time. LA at home is a tough win for any team when Kobe hits like he did (I hate saying that name). I beleive the Suns will adjust to this even more as the team settles in.
You should read the LA Times story I posted the link to below
In which Gentry calls Brown “unselfish”. Looking to shoot first is not necessarily a selfish act. It’s Brown’s role to shoot and score. He’s just not doing it efficiently enough so far.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 11, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
didn't see that
part of what I meant was who looses minutes when Redd starts to play? My opinion was he is to selfish. Gentry is slow to making adjustments at times but usually does well eventually IMHO
That's the thing.
I don’t think Brown is selfish either. I’m pretty sure that’s probably how he’s coached to play, I just don’t think he’s very good at it…
by iwasneveryoung on Jan 11, 2012 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
And he never was
That was the knock on him before he got here – he can’t create of the dribble.
Right.
Learning from Kobe didn’t help either. His game is very similar to Kobe’s, except he’s maybe 18% the player Kobe is.
by iwasneveryoung on Jan 11, 2012 7:07 PM MST up reply actions
But he is better at it than any one else on the bench,
which is one of our biggest issues.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
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I couldn't have been more wrong...
Before the game, I was worried about Gortat on Bynum and thought Robin would fare better because of his size. Gortat did give up some baskets to Bynum and missed a few rebounds but overall I thought he played him very well. Robin on the other hand…
Also, I had Markieff as our x-factor for this game, thinking that this would be the perfect opportunity for him to step up and provide scoring as well as rebounding and toughness. Well, let’s just say that didn’t happen (2pts, 3rbs).
Frye played surprisingly well last night and his shooting kept us in the game in the first half, He only grabbed 3 rebounds though and other than Gortat (12) and Grant Hill (6), that was one of the biggest issues (other than Kobe) for us all night. We lost the rebounding battle 56-39…That’s just not getting it done.
On the bright side, there were definitely some things to like about how the Suns played last night. This was only the first game against LA and I think we can definitely beat them at home. Kobe can’t score 48 points every game, right?
I’m fairly sure the Suns doubled down on Bynum when he went against Gortat and left Robin to deal w/ him w/o help. I’d need to go back and watch to confirm…actually, let me quickly pull up Bynum’s shots and see although that won’t account for the touches he has that didn’t result in shots…
Stand by
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
Still standing by...
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Running out of gas in the fourth quarter.
lately i’ve felt that we can tell which games the suns will lose by their body language and flow of the game. It starts with us opening the game trading basket’s with our opponent for the entire first quarter, then our bigs(aside from gortat) will stand around and wait for the shot to go up instead of positioning on defense and for the rebound.
The opposing team is then allowed to establish the pace of the game and we spend the rest of the game trying to come from behind to get the win. Morris has played really well up to this point, but last night he looked a little bit rattled playing against the hometown lakers, this will pass as he gets more acclimated to playing against teams with star players he grew up watching.
I expect a big game out of him against his old rival tristan thompson and the cavs. To me, nash and hill both looked a little winded throughout the course of the game and because of that the shots weren’t falling. I thought we played pretty well offensively(especially frye and gortat) until the fourth quarter.
Most of this loss can be placed on the hot shooting of the rapist bryant. Our bigs(aside from gortat) lopez,frye and morris really let us down defensively on the boards and didn’t show any toughness or fight which was really disturbing.
Brown showed some flashes of talent but otherwise was a black hole that didn’t know the concept of passing the ball and still shows very poor shot-selection. Price brought some good energy off the bench but was still turnover-prone and nash got abused defensively again.
The way bryant was scoring we weren’t going to win this game anyway, but to see our bigs fold like that pn the boards and on defense overall was really discouraging. Redd will eventually(not expecting a spectacular scoring performance his first few games) provide some relief on offense but can’t be a long-term answer.
This team will eventually need a talent upgrade at pointguard and on the wing in order to pull off the upset against the stronger teams in the west.
We have an outside shot (no pun intended) at making the playoffs in this shortened season, but if we want to advance in the post-season we’ll need to address the concerns stated in the above paragraph.
by jay humphries on Jan 11, 2012 10:38 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
word
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 11, 2012 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Kobe didn't shoot lights out until the 4th
He was 18-31, but had two dunks in the 4th. He was shooting OK most of the game, but not nearly well enough to beat us single handedly.
Rebounding takes a hiding, but most of that isn’t the bigs but everyone else. On the LAL ORebs, mostly someone other than Gortat or Lopex missed a boxout, as L. Walton with 5 did the most damage, and when Gasol got them it was on switches. We seem to be running a hedging defence, not a full switch but a hedge, that leaves guys open on the offensive glass unless smaller guys block out, and in this game Dudz missed a few.
This team will eventually need a talent upgrade at point guard and on the wing in order to pull off the upset against the stronger teams in the west.
You mean BACKUP point guard, yes?
100% of the bench’s problems come down not to scoring, but who touches the ball, i.e. Price and Brown only. Next game I am going to keep a count of all the plays where only Price and/or Brown touches the ball in the halfcourt offence, because it is significant. And neither of those two works well with screens at all, which our offence demands.
If just half the time we got the ball to Hak, and let him do his thing, we’d be in a better position, and we’d be looking like playoff contenders, because the bench’s D is pretty damn good.
Kobe didn’t shoot lights out until the 4th
umm… I may have been watching a different game. In fact, I felt like it was the 2010 WCF for a while there, the way he was hitting shot after shot despite Grant’s defense.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
This is where humans are bad, seeing "patterns" that aren't there
See the post below – Kobe hit roughly 50% of his shots against Hill – and what’s more, he shot well in the 4th quarter against Hill.
I think MM gets hung up on the percentages too much at times...
50% isn’t that great if a player goes 2-4.
If a player goes 20-40 it’s very difficult. Scoring over 40 points is a titanic feat compared to shooting 50% from the field.
Gortat is going to shoot over 50% from the field about 500 times in his career. He will probably NEVER score 40.
Adjusted statistics are flawed. A player that gets a team 20 and 10 every night is generally much more valuable than a player that gets 13 and 6 (but in only 24 minutes so his per 36 is close to same).
Kobe’s game was stupendous. Not only from the standpoint that he provided volume scoring that only a handful of players on the planet can provide (of which the Suns have none), but from the standpoint that he excelled on a timely basis, vivifying the Lakers at opportune moments (namely when the Suns got off to a 19-10 start and at the end of the fourth quarter).
That exact type of performance and skillset is why Kobe has won championships. That type of player is championship caliber. Anyone that thinks that Kobe isn’t a special talent and that game against the Suns wasn’t a perfect example of what makes him a uniquely talented basketball prodigy has a fundamental disagreement with me about how basketball is played on the professional level.
People may dislike Kobe for a number of reasons (there are an abundance of them), but it’s prettty petty silly to discount his talent.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
Completely agree
It is not only that Kobe takes over but it can be about when he takes over. There were runs where the Lakers needed scoring and Kobe came right at us with 3 baskets in a row and more at times. He shot a lowish percentage but he hit every FT he took and still makes plays for his teammates. Kobe is something the Suns don’t have. He WAS the reason they won, hands down.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Nice breakdown Seth
Shannon Brown leaves me with a sour taste… No reason on earth Brown should take 13 shots in any game. Of course, he will have a game here soon where he nails 5 threes and everyone loves him, but having to sit through the 6 grueling games until then is hard to take.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 10:50 AM MST reply actions
it’s a catch 22 w/ him
He needs to take shots to find out if he can hit shots and the Suns need a guy that can go get buckets outside of the offense and the only way for him to do that is to shoot…That’s the kind of player he is.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
I really wanted Shannon to succeed...I felt it was integral to our overall team's chances..
I know it’s early, but I feel maybe Nash or Hill maybe take him aside and striked kick his ass. talk to him. I just don’t want this to end in a disastrous signing and he’s on the bench playing parchesi with Telfair and Childress.
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
They have little choice but to use him
unless Redd pans out, they have no depth there and Childress is not a better option.
However, he needs to realize that he doesn’t need to jack shots. He needs to attack the rim and get to the line, and he needs to be patient in finding spots to take shots. More importantly, he needs to defend.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
bingo…
It’s such a fine line between being aggressive and being reckless. It’s going to take some time.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
This.
This sums it up perfectly. I’m not really concerned with how many shots Brown takes but how he takes them. He can shoot a poor percentage and I can live with that if he’s taking good shots. But jacking up long, contested threes and his absolute refusal to pass the ball to any of his teammates needs to change.
This is one of the reasons why I don’t get too upset when Frye struggles, because he still takes good shots. He may not be perfectly set or he may hesitate, which often leads to a miss, but the shots themselves are still good shots in the flow of the offense, if that makes any sense.
Plus, I know Frye is eventually going to get hot, so there’s that.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
Gentry thinks Browns is "too unselfish" and needs to be more aggressive.
Yes, indeed. According to the LA Times:
Phoenix Coach Alvin Gentry said before the game that Brown needs to look for his shot more. “He’s a little bit too unselfish,” Gentry said, “and we want him to be a scorer when he’s out on the floor and be aggressive taking the ball to the basket and create.”
Key take away from that for me is “taking the ball to the basket”. He does need to do more of that and chuck up less 3s.
The Suns’ front office spent months scouting Brown and targeted him in free agency. It would be foolish to pull the plug on him after 9 games. He’s looked dreadful at times, but everybody needs to take a deep breath and be patient with the guy. There’s still 57 games to go.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 11, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Gentry has mistaken Brown for J-Rich
J-Rich came here already armed with a jumpshot that extends from beyond the arc. Brown is still in the process of incorporating a jumpshot to his arsenal since it only features dunk. Hell, Brown could dribble properly while driving to the hoop.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
Brown %
he never shot better than 42%/ 33% in LA so what makes Gentry think he can shoot better here? I think Redd will do better than that.
Also
Brown can’t take Stephen Hawking off the dribble. Which is interesting since he is pretty fast… Not sure what is wrong with him.
But I haven’t seen him shake a single defender 1-on-1. He can’t even get decent separation for a jumper. The defender is always right in his face.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 12, 2012 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
He can't handle the ball.
This is something I’m all too familiar with. It’s tough to beat a guy one-on-one if you can’t make the ball so everything you need it to.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Exactly what I was going to say
He seems to just lose the ball or have to spend his time looking at the ball because he is on the verge of losing it by just dribbling himself.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Suddenly I'm not entirely sure Alvin knows what "unselfish" and "aggressive" mean.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
its quite possible that Gentry has more inside knowledge into the Suns’ gameplans and play calls than we do…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Psh. He wishes.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 5:13 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
But if the gameplan...
…calls for Shannon Brown to be more selfish, then it’s safe to say no knowledge as been applied, no?
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 5:15 PM MST up reply actions
I don't mind him being aggressive.
Problem is, he’s not. Gentry is way off if he thinks Brown is too unselfish. Brown is the definition of selfish at this point. I’m all for giving him a shot and time to get used to his teammates and what not, but he’s poor play has nothing to do with that IMO.
He appears to have no desire to pass the ball. Last night we had a two on one with Warrick out front on a fast break chance. Instead of throwing a lead pass to Warrick, Brown tried to keep it himself to drive to the basket which resulted in poor dribbling and Brown having to pull back and let the defense catch up.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
Or is he just inneffective?
He never seems to know what the right pass is – he seems to lack BBall IQ, and an understanding of the game.
We use him all wrong. We should be using him on cuts and backscreens, not primary handler on ball.
That was a nice way of saying...
“Shannon, you aren’t a shooter, you are a scorer that gets points by attacking the rim and getting to the line. Stop shooting threes and start getting in the lane.”
BTW, maybe he should tell that to Grant Hill.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
He needs to play off the ball more
There was one tine where he kept moving and price hit him with a cut to the basket. Thays where hes money. He cannot dribble for anything
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 11, 2012 12:06 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I think he needs to play off the ball as well
and then also off the court and out of the state
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 5:54 PM MST up reply actions
so what you are saying is he is eddie house
he will kill you 90% of the time, and 10% he will be lights out.
never liked guys like that…
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 11:08 AM MST up reply actions
What about Hak?
As a SF, Hak looks great. He hit 4-7 and while his outside shot is still erratic (he doesn’t go straight up and down, but falls to his left), his post game is brilliant and he always finishes at a good rate at the rim. He can isolate against most SFs and get a score, or even better a foul, and should be the primary bench scorer, with plays run through him. Sadly, the backup guards just don’t get Hak the ball in good spots.
As for Brown, one of those guards, he takes too many shots, plain and simple. At his best, he looks like he could be a scorer, but the NBA isn’t soccer, where two goals are scored a game, and it is the average play that matters. Brown is shooting .338 and only .269 from 3, and has virtually no assists (7 in 174 minutes), and that is killing us. That all comes down to the busted plays and early in the shot clock jumpers, and the over-dribble, no one else touches the ball posessions he seems to specialise in.
The play that sums Brown up was the play where Brown dribbled around forever, lost the ball, we somehow recovered, Brown got the ball and just pressed on LONGER, not passing once, before hitting a little 12 foot runner. Even when he stuffs up, he keeps going, and not in a good way, as that time he scored, but 66.2% of the time he misses.
Thing is, Brown is solid elsewhere, as he rebounds and defends well and hits his FTs. If he would just learn that he isn’t the best option 50% of the time – not even the true figure of 85%, just 50% – and that he needs to make a move, and if it doesn’t work recycle the ball and stand in the corner for a three, he would be a plus player. If Brown could just learn that if plan A doesn’t work, it is OK to pass to someone else, he would be productive. But teh NBA is full of “If only” talents, and I’m not sure Brown is going to change.
Brown seems to think that shooting a lot at poor percentages will get him a long term contract and, sadly, he might be right, as the research shows that the NBA overpays guys that score a lot. In the meantime, he’s killing our second unit offence.
Rotations in the post
Were outstanding, as you say. There’s a superb example in the 2nd half, I think the end of the 3rd quarter, where the Suns rotated perfectly to deny Bynum and then Gasol, forcing the turnover. That really impressed me, we’re not used to seeing such great defensive effort as a team. Looks like Turner has done a great job in a short time.
Loved the breakdown Seth
For me, I think Markieff gets a little bit of a pass for his bad game. First time playing a big time team this season, rookie jitters and whatnot. I think he’ll pick his game up as the season goes along so by the time we matchup against the Lakers again he should be able to take advantage of the size mismatches the Lakers might throw at us.
by lixuec on Jan 11, 2012 10:59 AM MST via Android app reply actions
I thought he might be intimidated playing at Staples
with the lights dimmed and Jack Nicholson in the front row and all.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Great analysis...You outdid yourself..>!
Considering you are do good stuff, this is a masterpiece of game review. My thought is how do we consistently compensate with the roster that we have against a team like LA? I understand what you say about Morris but what if Bynum adjusts.? We have a hard time enough guarding both bigs when they are rolling. Whatabout the teams with PFs that can defend… (OKC, Portland, San Antonio..) The bottom line is how far can we go without the big time scorer?
Personally, I think we are playoff bound but is our ceiling a 7th or 8th place playoff team…? How do we get Shannon’s head out his butt and learn to play within the system of the team? How do we get the most out of Grant Hill without exposing ourselves offensively…?
Lot ofg questions I have so someone answer them, Dammit…
There, I feel much better….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
thanks…there’s a reason a lot of people picked this team to suck this year. The roster has a lot of holes.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
I ultimately saw little difference between last night’s team and the 09-10 team in terms of playing the Lakers (in the WCF). The Suns were scrappy, but it all came down to Kobe being Kobe and Bynum/Gasol getting more boards than we did.
So that’s a silver lining around a dark cloud. Overall, I like how scrappy the team is.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 11, 2012 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
Sadly for both the Suns and less sadly for the Lakers...both teams are signifigantly worse than then.
But I agree with what you’re saying.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
Slapping a silver lining on a declivitous descent....
The difference between the Lakers and the Suns is nearly exactly the same because both teams have gotten equally worse.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
I like reading your post Jim
There’s always a new word that I don’t understand and rarely read.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
This is entirely accurate.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
I'm glad you think so...
since you said it first.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
I just love agreeing with myself and different forms of things that I say.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 2:27 PM MST up reply actions
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 11, 2012 2:32 PM MST up reply actions
Your best friend is you.
I’m my best friend too. We share the same views, and hardly ever argue.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know about you...
But Rosy Pams is my best friend…..
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Eat spam from the can?
Watch late night C-Span?
And rock out to old school, Duran Duran?
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Or, as Woody Allen put it...
“Don’t knock masturbation. It’s sex with someone I love.”
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Alex hates it when I use paraphrasing
as a form of agreement.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
what Jim means to say is that I have called him out before when he’s repeated my entire story, just in a different form, without crediting me for the thought or conclusion first.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
That was pretty close to using
paraphrasing as a form of agreement, Alex, but you’re going to have to hone your skills a little to become as adept as me.
I thought that in your case, the credit was tacit unless I openly lambasted your contentions and proposals… Due to the regularity of your brilliance and concinnity, I am probably remiss in the frequency of my laudatory remarks.
We each have our own distinctive flair. I tend to ramble incoherently and endlessly and use the ideas of others to fill the vacuous void where mine ought to reside, others use more succinct responses such as “this!” to express their approval.
It’s a circle of life. :)
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
Morris is a rookie
so he is going to have nights like that. He needs time to learn how to impact the game in other ways when the shot is not there, like getting into the post and attacking the rim, or getting it done defensively…
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 11:09 AM MST reply actions
yes
I probably didn’t make this point well enough…I’m not “blaming” Morris and frankly it’s not fair to him that this team needs him to do so much, so soon. On the flip side, his development will be faster since he’s being thrown into the fire so early.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
I’m curious to see how he does against fellow rookies, like Tristan Thompson on Thursday…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 11, 2012 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
he had a bad game…I honestly don’t think he was rattled or whatever. He doesn’t seem to be wired that way. He just had a bad game against a good team.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
I actualy think this was the first time
we have seen him a bit nervous. He seemed to rush his shot a bit, and took two bad shots, which I haven’t seen from him. He also was out of sorts on the other end as well.
no biggie, he will get over the whole “big market” games soon and will settle in.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
If not, he gets torched.....
You know how panicky Suns fans get…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I noticed this as well
I saw a few things out of character from him that you mentioned.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I think it was the size of LA
Matching up against Gasol and Bynum is tough, as Morris isn’t a huge 4. He kind of wasn’t able to physically impose himself a lot. Shame we couldn’t have put him out against Walton late – he would destroy him.
I think Morris is also showing up on scouting reports, because LA rushed his three, the first team this year to do that. I doubt Morris gets many more wide open threes this season, and as he seems to need a long time to shoot a three, he may need to speed up his shot and, like Frye, commit to it early. In the NBA, you don’t get a lot of time to shoot ever, but at 6’9", if Morris commits quickly, he won’t get blocked a lot.
That is perhaps the biggest adjustment in the NBA, the speed of closeouts and the size of the guys closing out. Now that Morris is a known threat, he needs to accept he has a split second to shoot, get set to shoot early, not hesitate at all and just pull the trigger.
i actually think that he needs to not get sucked into the 3
Sure, Channing made a name for himself doing that, but he relies on that far too often simply because he has very little game otherwise.
Morris actually has a smooth midrange game, along with a patient post game. If I were him, I would spend the majority of my time looking at those aspects and then occasionally draining a 3 when left open.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 11, 2012 5:53 PM MST up reply actions
Kieff hits at .545 on 3s
That’s 1.64 points per attempt. I vote he takes a lot more of them.
Well, if that % holds up then put him in the HOF
But my sneaking suspicion is that: [a] he has had a nice streak of makes, bolstered by [b] the fact that teams are unaware of him and see him as a rookie you can leave to jam up Nash, and © it is early and he hasn’t launched enough to create a sample big enough to conclude he is the greatest shooter in history.
My point is that for his career arc, he will serve his team better [and make more money in the long run] not falling in love with that shot. His ability to attack, post, get to the line, and defend will benefit the suns more than him being a 3 point specialist.
My guess is he will end up btween 36-39% on threes if we are lucky [which would lead our team. BTW Telfair is at .667, should he take more?
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 12, 2012 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s a specialist. He’s still doing many things for us. But the 3PT game is a big part of his game at this point.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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that is what i am saying
he has a solid all around game, don’t fall in love with the three!
by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 12, 2012 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
You're absolutely right about his slow release.
It seems like it takes him a moment together himself, spot up, and decide if he should take it before he actually does.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Watching the game Morris wasn’t any kind of offensive threat because no offence is ran through him. When he does get it, its posting up and he had a few nice fade away jumpers but they just bounced off the rim. He had some good shots just didn’t go in. A lot of his 3’s in the past were not planned threes just Keif making something out of nothing. Gentry needs to get him involved more
The other problem
was that Morris couldn’t really stay on the floor when the Lakers had both Bynum and Gasol in the game. Morris had a couple of possessions defensively where he tried his best on Gasol, but it’s a pretty tough matchup for him and the Lakers looked to exploit it.
When Frye picked up his 4th foul,
I thought maybe this would be the time to try RoLo at center and Gortat at the four. I don’t think it’s a lineup they should use regularly, but it seems like every time we play the Lakers we are at a huge size disadvantage (like the rest of the league), and we finally have the pieces to at least try to combat it.
Agreed
And lets see what he can do as a pick and pop guy – he rarely sets picks at all.
I have noticed him being more involved with screens recently.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Great post! always awesome to see a Seth Pollack article again :D
Ere The Sun Rises!
Brown needs...
to play more with Nash. I think Nash tempers his love for pounding the air out of the ball for 15 seconds and jacking up a contested jumper. He and grant can run the floor together and get some easy points. Duds will fit in wherever and whatever role you give him, and i love him for it.
"He's very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
There are a lot of good basketball games on tonight.
I’m already ruing not subscribing to the League Pass….
I’ll be glad when school starts next week and serves the function of occupying the free time which could presently be used for watching basketball.
Hawks vs. Pacers
Sixers vs. Knicks
Mavericks vs. Celtics
Rockets vs. Spurs (I don’t think I’d actually watch this game but I think it has direct seeding implications)
Lakers vs. Jazz
Magic vs. Blazers
Heat vs. Clippers
The Mavs and Clippers games are on ESPN, but I wouldn’t mind watching a bunch of these concomitantly. I can multi-task.
Obviously all Western Conference teams need to lose…. but is it better for Houston to lose or SA – are the Rockets a non-contender and the Suns need help against the Spurs? That’s the way I’m leaning.
I don’t think the Suns can finish ahead of the Lakers barring a dramatic change of circumstances, so I guess I want Utah to lose because I think the Suns can finish ahead of them…..
I like the compressed schedule, even if it is hard to keep up at times.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
I'll probably watch Heat/Clippers
I’m still stunned the Warriors beat the Heat last night. I didn’t watch any of the game, but had seen that the Heat had a big lead. Then my Warriors fan friends started blowing up Facebook, and then I got a text that they had won in OT. This does figure to be a strange season.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 11, 2012 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
I watched the last 5 minutes and OT
And the Warriors made a bunch of threes, but that was after the recovery in the third.
there was so much energy in the 4th Q of that game.
I’m excited for them. It was a glimmer of hope for the team- though I think they were on a rare clicking moment. I don’t expect it to happen much. But I always love seeing the heat go down.
Grant Hill for prez.
by sun-arc on Jan 11, 2012 7:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Kobe scoring most of the points is usually how you beat the Lakers
This is why it was a close up until the Suns ran out of energy with about 6 minutes left.
I agree with assessment that Morris had rookie jitters. Why? He was getting burned by Luke Walton. He should dominate a smaller player like that. I was hoping Morris could come in and pound the glass, but it was the opposite. Without Odom or Mcroberts the Suns really had no excuses for getting out rebounded so badly. The Lakers simply out hustled them on rebounds. The evidence is in how many boards the Lakers got by simply tipping the ball after a miss.
Shannon Brown, Grant Hill, and Morris should not have the green light to shoot threes on any given possession. It’s not their strength and really puts the Suns in a bind with their poor rebounding.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 11, 2012 1:24 PM MST reply actions
I like hill
Putting up a shot fake on the 3 then taking a dribble or two for a midrange jumper. That is his game. I dont want morris to get into a bad habit of chuckin up 3’s this young in his career, would rather he work from the elbow a little more. Once again Brown needs Nash to temper his jackin up shot, put the ball on the floor and use that athleticism
"He's very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Jan 11, 2012 1:48 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Hill Shot .395 last year from 3
and the year before over .400 – he is just missing shots all round this year.
percentages don't tell the whole story
I already had this discussion last season. Nobody can convince me that Grant Hill is a good 3 point shooter. He shoots it like a set shot and not in rhythm like his mid range shot.
Since his shooting has not been good thus far that is all the better reason to bring it closer.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 11, 2012 6:08 PM MST up reply actions
Shooting percentages tell a very accurate story – I mean, it is makes / attempts – how much more overt can it get?
Hill was AWESOME at corner threes the last two years. He can’t hit them at the circle, but in the corner, he was money – to the tune of over 40%. That is equal to 60% from 2, a figure almost no one hits from 15-18 feet.
Since his shooting has not been good thus far that is all the better reason to bring it closer.
But Hill isn’t hitting from midrange, either. More likely that his shot comes back from any range than from a specific range, and given a corner 3 is worth 50% more than a 15 footer, I’m comfortable with Hill shooting his way out of the slump from the corner.
by MMotherwell on Jan 11, 2012 6:40 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
me too, but
why wasn’t Frye involved in the late game offense. He was making shots. That seems like it limited the offensive game they suns put together- it was all Nash, Hill and a little Gortat. Why didn’t they work on a play to get Frye free for 3?
Grant Hill for prez.
by sun-arc on Jan 11, 2012 7:57 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
sorry- and
I think their game plan was mostly working. Yes, if you shut down everyone else on the team, Kobe cannot beat you. The problem was the offensive rebounds we gave them, and the lack of getting to the line in the final 6 minutes along with the above mentioned predictability of the (lame) offensive game plan.
But at least they were playing good D (short of rebounding) and with good effort. Maybe we are just one player from having a good team- someone who can either create their own shot and/or get to the line in crunch time (like a Gerald Wallace or Eric Gordon type).
Grant Hill for prez.
by sun-arc on Jan 11, 2012 8:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Frye wasn't involved
because the Lakers repeatedly rotated to him, choosing to leave Grant WIDE open in the corner.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Hope Redd becomes our clutch guy
not expecting 20+ ppg but if he can create his own shot and drain the buckets in the clutch ill be content.
right. It would be catch-and-shoot off a series of screens.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
And hope the training staff has plenty of spare parts...
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Odds Price or Brown hits him in stride or at all?
Over and under is 10%.
Price will give him the ball
but it will be too low to catch and shoot. Brown will be busy moving side to side dribbling.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
One of the most pointless things the Suns do is getting back immediately on defense when they miss a shot
I mean what’s the point of doing that when the most capable defender on transition is Hill. Plus not one Suns bigs knows how to box-out and rebound. The Suns is almost similar to Magic where 4 guys would jack up 3’s and leave the rebounding to Dwight. For the Magic it works because of Dwight but for the Suns it doesn’t. Another bad habit the Suns show that have been their trademark is where they would jack up 3’s even when their is no other Suns player in the paint to grab if it misses. The Suns is still a team that lives by the jumpshot and dies by the jumpshot. They could have won this game had Gentry made some adjustments late in the game.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
Like what adjustment?
That is the start of a thought that needs finishing :)
The Suns just missed shots, plain and simple. They also seemed out of sync on the plays they ran, which meant they didn’t take great shots, but they missed shots they should make at a better clip.
The LAL also really played well late. They jumped on Nash on the PnR, which they hadn’t all game, and no one got into good spots to take advantage. That, and Hill’s poor shooting meant the Lakers left him open, and our passes late all seemed to miss the mark. The difference between hitting a shooter in motion and not is the difference between a good look and no look.
Lets not read too much into one game. The PnR usually works really well – we just need to get into better sync and get everyone not named Gortat rebounding better.
So basically...
the Suns need to get more talented then they are.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 11, 2012 6:10 PM MST up reply actions
For what outcome?
We are what we are, but slight improvement nets us an extra 2-4 wins.
The Suns starters need to execute a bit better – they missed passes they’d normally make, and rotated to places other players didn’t expect. We are so used to our offence being in perfect sync, it was glaring how out of Sync guys like Dudley, Frye and Hill were, often being in unexpected spots.
If the players get in better sync, and are where others expect them to be, and we make a better pass, and the two go hand in hand really, we make a few more shots and are in that game longer. Probably lose, but we wouldn’t have gone the last 2.10 without a score, and the bail out 20 footer from Gortat wouldn’t have been needed.
so you are saying...
they need to get more in synch with their game plan, and that this will happen with more time?
I am skeptical about this because they never found that rhythm last year and lost so many games, even late in the year, in just this fashion. Seems like there are so many teams that can take them out of their sync.
Maybe you are right- but I feel like they still need someone who can dependantly create their own shot or get to the line to win these games.
Grant Hill for prez.
by sun-arc on Jan 11, 2012 8:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
There's no adjustment
Hill just needs to sink a decent % of those wide open shots, and the Suns will net 7-9 extra points a game.
That may not have won this game, but it would have made Mike Brown reconsider his defensive strategy.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
It is scary to know our only counter to teams going small to defend the P&R is a rookie
This is one of the ugliest offenses to watch down the stretch of games.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Only one game
And the problem is that we needed Hill out there for his D, but his O was really bad.
This team is a mismatch waiting to happen. Sometimes, that works for us. Others, like last night, against us. Some positive signs, and some things to work on.
Except it has happened plenty of times.....
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Yeah, it happened a lot last year too
We got to remember this team isn’t much different from last season. The bench is a little better and that’s pretty much it.
Don't trade Dudley!
The bench is a little more even
O is just as bad, D is a lot better. which is why we NEED to get Hak the ball more. With a slight uptick on O, that bench is a real asset.
I agree with this
however Hak isn’t muscling anyone for position, so if they’re going to do that, they need to actually call an iso, and run him off a screen so he can catch somehwere closer than 20 feet away.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Or maybe have Hak set a pick,
and then go post up the guy who rotates to him when he rolls.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Which is worth a shot.
Hak’s post game is nice.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Not this year
Down the stretch, we’ll get better. The lack of Sync was noticable, as players passed to the wrong spots. The Lakers deserve credit though – the change up to Walton late was huge for them.
I just don't think we will get much better
We have the same personnel. We didn’t address a go to guy and it is showing it’s head once more. Redd is the only addition so we will see I guess. To me it looked like they were just shutting down our P&R and we looked lost.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
To me it looked like they were just shutting down our P&R and we looked lost.
That is always the case, but usually we adjust better when the PnR is shut down, we adjust and shoot earlier, roll faster etc. That game, we were just out of sync.
As for improvement, we will get better. Morris, Frye, Gortat, Nash and Hill all are rounding into form. Nash is shooting .355 from 3 – that will improve – and Hill shot so badly last game, we can expect more from him.
Its the bench that is the issue. I can’t believe I am saying this, but I absolutely LOVE Hak as a three. All his strengths are magnified, and all his weaknesses covered. If we can just get the ball out of Brown’s hands and into Hak’s, we can be improve our offence by 2ppg, and that is the difference between us and OKC.
So there is a LOT of hope – more hope than I imagined we’d have.
by MMotherwell on Jan 11, 2012 4:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But we rely on the P&R so much
It can be shut down, we have seen it before. We have nobody to get us baskets and get us to the line by themselves down the stretch. Hak is playing better but I don’t believe he is enough. We can’t just throw the ball to someone and ISO and get some baskets when we are out of rhythm. We aren’t in the shooting penalty as often either.
Sure the bench could be better but when it is close and we have our starters vs their starters in the game for the last 6ish minutes we get shut down a lot of times. You see a lot of jumpers (that the defense allowed by design) and Steve running around passing and having the ball reset because nobody is open. Then you see us jack up some shot and waste a possession.
IDK I realize the bench could be better but we still don’t have an answer for when we can’t run our P&R game and it affects our whole offense. We seriously have to reset so many times…. Then the clock is gone and bam bad possession. We scored 1 point in the final 6ish minutes in that last game. You can’t say that isn’t a glaring problem to have.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Any stratgey is apt to be known and schemed against
The Lakers waited well to throw Walton at us. if they did that first quarter, we’d have adjusted.
ISO plays rarely produce good results, and our PnR usually is very efficient.
The difference late was that the players were on different pages, and Hill was shooting woefully. We really can’t afford to carry anyone in that offence, especially late.
IMHO, we shouldn’t get to down, and the PnR won’t be that bad again, and although a second option wouldn’t hurt, I;d still rather a Nash PnR to almost any other play.
Actually, they did use two small forwards
in the 2nd quarter, and went on a huge run to take the lead. The popcorn analysis shows that the 2nd and 4th quarter Laker runs happened using basically the same personnel and schemes.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Desultory musing I just had about the Suns defense this year...
It appears that Turner has been above the bar in transmogrifying a perenially deficient defensive team into a more stalwart unit.
The Suns are top 10 in opponent field goal percentage and points against. I’m sure that there are other advanced statistics that support the contention that the Suns are in the top half of the league defensively (MM or somebody else feel free to chip in).
Which leads to the quiddity of my rumination…. are the Suns adapting well to the new instruction because of the lack of talent and athleticism?
The Suns have too many players who need great fundamentals and work ethic because they lack natural ability. The Suns starting 5 is the probably the least athletic in the league. The bench isn’t much better. Very little team speed. These guys have to be dirt workers. The Suns lead the league in fast hands, but are probably last in slam dunks.
If the Clippers are Lob City, then the Suns are Sun City…. I don’t know if Phoenix has a country club coach, but in many ways they seem to have a retirement home roster.
So while the Suns may be playing good fundamental basketball (4th in the league in turnovers), they lack some good old-fashioned freakish athleticism. This would be what I would like the team to address at the deadline or next off-season. This team needs an infusion of athleticism – not necessarily youth – athleticism.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
The D is better
Price and Brown are Plus athletes, at the very least, and that has been a big part of the D improvement, as last year the bench was bad – worse than Nash bad.
The defensive scheme seems to leave us vulnerable on the glass though. We run a scheme where players step in to cover each others man, and that leaves someone open on the weakside if a shot goes up, or means players lose their man, and seems to depend on smaller players boxing out larger players. That happened quite a few times last night, and Dudley missed a few boxouts.
That is our problem in a nutshell. With so many average athletes, we need to to do every fundamental thing, like boxing out and getting into the best position, with 100% accuracy to beat the better teams, and that is a tough ask. That, or shoot lights out (which will do on occasion – but only on occasion).
This really is one of the least athletic NBA teams I can recall seeing.
Dunks almost surprise me at this point.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
Lol how sad
But we really do lack some athletes.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
The only team we are ahead in dunks is Detroit...
Which is pretty exhilarting if I say so myself…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Take that Detroit!
The Suns own you!
And the Saints too!
And your baseball team has sucked ever since you lost Magnum P.I.!
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
bummer how the league leaders in dunks are given the championship trophy at the end of the season. So unfair to the gravitationally challenged. Go Wizards!
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Where's Bill Laimbeer when you need him...?
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
I believe he coaches in the WNBA now
Huh… rhetorical whats its?
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Actually, I think he's on an NBA bench now.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Every time I watch the Suns this season
I get Hoosiers flashbacks that they’re the small town team from Hickory with a bunch of unathletic stiffs…. and every other team in the NBA is that team from South Bend.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 11, 2012 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
Which of our assistant coaches should develop a crippling alcohol addicition?
I feel like Igor would be the most entertaining. Maybe Cartwright.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 11, 2012 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
Ironically, one of our most athletic players doesn’t play because he doesn’t seem to fit with what the Suns want him to do.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 4:06 PM MST up reply actions
Are you talking about Childress?
Because he hasn’t looked athletic. At ALL.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
I'm not 100% sure,
but I’ve heard that you’re not supposed to fake the funk on a nasty one….
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
On nba.com's rookie ladder Markieff Morris is ranked fourth. Preatty good pick.
I rock so get used to it.
It's about time
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
Noooo he dropped 1 spot
Haha, he is still doing very well.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Grant vs Kobe
Here’s a breakdown off Kobe’s stats against Hill vs when Hill sat. Most of Kobe’s stats when Grant sat came at the end of the 1st when the Lakers went on that big run, but forcing Kobe under 50% when he’s having one of those nights isn’t bad. Another showing stat was the amount of shots Grant forced him to shoot outside of 15ft.
32:53 Min with Grant
29 pts, 3 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 2 to, 2 pf
11-23 FG, 0-2 3P, 48.8 FG%
14 shots outside of 15ft (60.8% of his shots)
7-7 FT (2 FT off defensive 3 sec technicals)
6:13 Min without Grant
19 pts, 2 reb, 0 ast, 1 stl, 0 to, 0 pf
7-8 FG, 0-1 3P, 87.5 FG%
3 shots outside of 15ft (37.5% of his shots)
5-6 FT
BAMF goes HAM.
Kobe ABUSED Brown
And anyone on him not Hill. Even Hill struggled a few times but overall played him very well I think.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Hill did a really solid job. A lot of those shots he hit were extremely tough. If we could have just held Kobe to one point per minute Hill didn’t guard him, oh what a difference that would have made.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
How'd you do that?
Where’d you get those numbers?
Grant is a great defender, and even that dunk, that was ONE play. Kobe really wasn’t that great in that game shooting – he just shot a LOT.
I'm sure there's an easier way but
- I used popcornmachine to quickly see where Grant got his minutes.
- Copied all of the sections where he played from ESPN’s play-by-play into a document.
- Ctrl+F to find “Kobe” and copied all those lines into a new document.
- Then broke down everything he did into categories.
BAMF goes HAM.
by brian13 on Jan 11, 2012 5:23 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Well done!
That’s golden. I wish there was a tool that made that sort of thing easy to do. Maybe I’ll write one…
A tool like that would be awesome
This one game stat check only took about 20-30 min. The one I did last night for Robin Lopez’s REB+/- took a bit longer.
Btw, his REB+/- from last night was -1. Considering the Suns were -14 and most of his minutes came against Bynum, that’s not too bad.
BAMF goes HAM.
by brian13 on Jan 11, 2012 7:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just skimmed the game recap over at Silver Screen and Roll.
This is what I found in the second paragraph:
I guess people think Grant Hill is a good player or whatever…
This Dexter Fishmore guy is clearly a tool.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
I am pretty sure Lakers fans think Hill sucks
Generally they are unintelligent fans of course. Kobe usually still gets his points but somehow people forget Kobe is one of the best of all time.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Slowing Kobe down can be considered a major achievement...
Flushing Laker fans down the toilet…well that’s a life defining moment….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Going to need a huge toilet
So many Fakers fans.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
They are the most unintelligent fans in all of sports, no question about it. For a team with such a large fan base, I’d guess their actual percentage of fans that are die-hard fans is one of the lowest. Cowboys and Yankees fans are up there, but if you notice they share a large number of the same fan base despite all three locations of said teams being in different parts of the US.
I guess I just expected better from SB Nation, but I suppose Lakers fans are Lakers fans.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
Every time I go on their site
I see so much smugness. It is just a Laker fan stain it appears. I do see LOTS of Yankee fans who are straight up stupid too so that would probably be the closest.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
The biggest positive so far is minutes
Only Dudley is over 30 mpg – that is pretty awesome in a compressed season, and even more reason for optimism.
Am I the only one who thinks that, first two games aside, this team looks really solid – average to a touch above?
I'd agree to that.
We haven’t looked as bad as I was expecting and we do look like a playoff team at least.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 11, 2012 5:20 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think we're average
we have yet to beat a good team, or even lose to one by less than double digits
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Really, I agree...
We probably should be 5-4 (Should have won that NO game early) And we are starting to gel as a unit despite some obvious roster holes. Barring a major injury, we should make the playoffs. If (Big if) Redd can give us anything near what he did in, what’s our ceiling then…? 4th or 5th seed…? We shall see…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
Still think 7th....maaaaaybe 6th....
Teams the Suns can’t pass barring a miracle:
OKC
LAC
LAL
Dallas
Then even if I spotted you one of Portland and Denver, that would put the Suns at 6. That’s dismissing SA from the equation.
I still see the ceiling as 7 or 8.
On a positive note, thanks to the issues in Memphis I think the Suns chances at making the playoffs look pretty good despite a mediocre start. Memphis, NO, Houston, SAC, GS, and Minny all look decidedly worse than the Suns to me right now. I’m not a big believer in Utah, either, so right there are enough teams for the Suns to be ahead of to secure the 8 seed.
7th or 8th seems reasonable, maybe 6th if tragedy befalls someone ahead of Phoenix or the Suns end up being way better than just about anyone thinks or they have shown so far…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
They have some talent for sure, but also their share of flaws...
Aldridge is one of the top 30 players in the league. Matthews, Wallace, and Crawford are good pieces.
On the other hand, they only play 8 deep, Camby and KT are ancient, and they have average point guard play.
I think they are about a 6th or 7th seed that got off to a good start.
That being said, that was a great win for the Suns. Protecting home court against teams that they could be jockeying for playoff postitioning with was one of my focal points before the season. Those games are essentially worth 2 and with less games there assumably will be less separation between teams and margin for error in order to secure a playoff spot.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
I think Shannon blew it for us in the first quarter
Kobe got too many jumpers of him, and if he fouls Kobe, he needs to foul hard
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
Shannon needs to attack the rim more for his shots
Not shoot less. Just needs better shot selection. I also think Hak needs more of the offense to go through him as he seems to be our best scorer
Carter having a glazed-eyes contest with Boris Diaw. Carter's winning, but Diaw might respond by eating his eyes.
TRADE IDEA:
I don’t like Shannon at all anymore:
1. he can’t play defense
2. streaky shooting can’t help us, sure he can make shots but not consistently
3. he may be athletic, but only if he could shoot and play defense, he would fit perfectly
4. he takes too many shots
I think we should trade him for either a first or second rounder, or package a first rounder and him for courtney lee(i know he’s a point but he can play the 2 well) or someone like carlos delfino, he’s big and can shoot, also, or even Thabo Sefolosha so when hill goes off the bence, we could have a great defensive player besides dudley, but Thabo might be hard to pry off OKCs hands
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
9 games in huh…so glad the Suns FO doesn’t read blogs (oh wait, they do)
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 11, 2012 7:11 PM MST up reply actions
Go on....
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I mean if he continues to perform this way the rest of the season
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
Yeah, but in a normal season
9 games is only 11% of the season….
This year it’s almost 14%! Totally different.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 12, 2012 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
Courtney Lee isn’t a PG, he’s a SG. And not worth parting with a first-rounder for. I don’t want Thabo, who is offensively inept.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
The rotations in the post against Bynum were very good. If the game plan was to hold Bynum and Gasol in check and pray that Kobe doesn’t go off, it worked (except for the praying part).
What do you expect when Sun God passes out at the beginning of the game?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Sorry...
I’ll try to make it through the first quarter for the Cavs game…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!
That might be long enough.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
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