Suns/Wolves Trade Proposal. Is it Good for Both Teams?
Hello there Suns fans, me and some of my fellow Wolves fans have been looking at the Suns roster and feel as though these two teams would make good trade partners. Both teams seem to have some players that would be better served on the other team.
Here is the proposal I came up with and then I'll explain Why I think it works:
for
Wesley Johnson, Nikola Pekovic, & Martell Webster
For the Wolves, it is simple, they get 2 players at positions of great need. Frye would be a big help at center as Darko is the only guy on our roster who isn't hurt that can play there reasonably well. We have been resorting to a lot of smallball lineups with Love or Tolliver at center because Darko is so inconsistent and useless on the offensive end. Frye's ability to shoot 3s would fit in well with our team. Shannon Brown has been off to a pretty terrible start, but he's better than what the Wolves have right now. If the necromancers on your medical staff can keep Michael Redd healthy, Brown is going to be playing a much reduced role and probably won't be happy about it either.
For the Suns, a lot of the appeal from my point of view is getting rid of Frye's contract. It's only a matter of time before Morris takes his spot in the starting lineup and both Lopez and Warrick seem to be capable backups. $6 million is a lot of money to pay a backup and doing this trade would also allow the Suns to save $6.4 million owed in 2013-14 and $6.8 million owed in 2014-2015. As for the players you'll be picking up, Wes Johnson is still (fairly) young. He's been a big disappointment and has confidence issues, but all the physical tools are there to be a solid role player and he has a nice looking shot even if he doesn't make too many of them lol. Nikola Pekovic is a very skilled low post scorer, but hasn't really adjusted to the NBA and fouls way too much. He's hopelessly buried on our bench behind all of our PFs whereas on almost any other team I think he would be getting minutes and a chance to prove himself. Martell Webster is one of the best 3 pointer shooters in the league and a solid defender, the only problem is that he's ALWAYS hurt. With the gaping hole the Wolves have at SG, we don't have time to sit around and wait on him to (maybe) get healthy. We need help now. If anyone can fix Webster's back, it's the Suns medical staff with their dark arts and if it doesn't work out he is an expiring contract as his salary next season is almost completely unguaranteed.
This is just one proposal, there are also other ways to make it work as the Wolves and Suns rosters work pretty well together in a trade. I know you guys are looking for a PG and Luke Ridnour could help out there, but we'd probably have to get something more in return because he's pretty good and has been valuable to us with JJ Barea out with injuries. Let me know what you think in the comments and good luck this season!
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No thanks, we don't need more wings.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Nice try.
Unfortunately for you, I frequent CH and am very familiar with your roster.
<a href=“http:// ”http://www.canishoopus.com/2012/1/11/2699606/a-pattern-of-behavior-wesley-johnson" target="_blank">http://www.canishoopus.com/2012/1/11/2699606/a-pattern-of-behavior-wesley-johnson" target="new">This is all anyone needs to know about Wes Johnson.
You mention your abundance of PFs, so why do you want Frye? Love is more effective at C than Frye is. And you also mention the PF depth as a reason for Pek not getting off the bench. Last time I checked, Pek is a C. We already ditched out tub-of-lard (love you Silo) project C. We don’t need another one.
No interest in trading for Webster since he can’t even get onto the court.
We are not parting with Frye for some cap relief. We already have enough for 2 max contracts after this season. Also, Frye is the best player in this trade and we’re getting nothing but spare parts that can’t (Webster, Pek) or shouldn’t (Johnson) get on the court.
We’ll give you Shannon Brown and Bassy (you want him back, right?) for Ridnour in a couple of weeks. How does that sound?
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I'm in no way trying to "trick" you into accepting this trade
It’s not as if we are the real GMs of these teams and I’ve trying to swindle you. I’ve been as open as possible in this trade because I’m curious to see what Suns fans think.
Last time I checked I am a wolves fan and have probably seen Pekovic play way more than you have and he is clearly a power forward. K-Love lost like 20-25 lbs in the offseason and it has made him a much better player but the other side of the coin is that he can get abused physically by bigger and stronger players. Frye is a good 2 inches taller than anyone else on our team not named Darko or Anthony Randolph and Randolph is not very good and super skinny.
I’m not denying that Frye is the best player in this trade. I think I made it clear that much of the appeal for the Suns from my point of view would be to save a ton of money on someone who is going to a bench player sooner or later.
Pek is listed at 6’11 and 290 lbs and isn’t exactly the quickest big man in the league. Plus he’s a post-up player. What about that says PF?
Frye is definitely able to play C, but he’s best at PF, and he’s not exactly an ideal complement for Love. While he is not the liability he once was, he’s far from elite on defense and the boards, nor does he have any semblance of a post game (he’s improving, but he still struggles to back down guards).
And I also said PHX doesn’t need to get rid of one of its better players to save a few bucks. We have room for two max contracts, and we’ll likely amnesty Josh Childress as well.
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His game says PF...
If you have seen him play. He has classic low post moves. He is really strong but not a rim protector on defense and not a good help defender.
I don’t know where you got 6’11 290lbs from. He is maybe 260 lbs, probably more like 250 lbs. and 6’10.
No way is Pek 290
And side by side with Darko he looks to be somewhere between 6’10 and 6’11, so you’re about right there.
He's listed at 290 on NBA.com and Yahoo,
and he looks pretty big to me. 260 is still C weight.
There are plenty of players with a good post game. Some of them are PFs, some are Cs.
Position is mostly determined by who you can defend. Even at 250 or 260, can he chase the likes of Blake Griffin up and dwn the court, or get out and contest the likes of Dirk or Aldridge?
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*down
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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No he can't
He probably can’t even chase Gortat around. He’s pretty slow. I didn’t disagree that he’s a traditional plodding center. He’s just not 290. If Dwight is only 270-ish and Bynum is 285-ish then Pek is much closer to Dwight. Muscle does weigh more than fat, however…
We’ll give you Shannon Brown and Bassy (you want him back, right?) for Ridnour in a couple of weeks. How does that sound?
Nice try, but seeing as how I have skimmed through some posts while I was here and am now very familiar with your roster, I know that Shannon Brown is not good.
How about Wayne Ellington and 3 walleye for Shannon Brown.
Tempting.
But I don’t like fish.
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I wouldn't do that trade.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
No thanks
Frye and Brown for some garbage is not worth it. Frye would only be worth dealing as a piece for someone really good.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Thanks for the feedback
Honestly I had no idea on what you guys were thinking on Frye and his contract since Markieff Morris and Gortat have been pretty impressive so far this year.
Gortat is our starting C.
Keef has been really good as a rookie, but not so good that we can ship out our best PF and play him 35+ mpg.
How about Robin Lopez? Any interest in him?
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It is fine
Was just saying we only have Frye, Gortat, Dudley, and Morris under contract next year so we really have no need to deal Frye unless we are getting a very very good player (also including other pieces of course).
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
We gave Frye that contract in the 2010 offseason.
Markieff was still in college then and we hadn’t even made the trade for Gortat. Frye has still been invaluable to us. He provides mismatches on the offensive end and he’s a pretty decent defender. He’s like a super poor-man’s version of Rasheed Wallace, but I’ll take it.
As long as we have Steve, I still believe!
Fryes contract is not bad
he fits our team well. If were giving him up along with brown its gota have some picks involved not just more wings.
Final verdict:poop trade
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
I'll echo what others have responded
No way we give you a 30-minute-a-night rotation player for 3 guys who would rate below Childress in future playing time. Even Shannon Brown is more valuable than anyone in your offer.
However, if you really want Frye and Brown then a 2012 #1 draft pick would be enticing, if you’ve got one to spare…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
How does Frye fit into your future?
Honest question. In your opinion, what role does he play going forward? Morris and Gortat are the frontcourt of the future, correct? Do you want to pay that much to a backup?
Also, over on our Wolves board, we all like Dudley a lot. Do you figure him to be a part of the core going forward or is he an expendable role player?
Gortat is our starting center for the foreseeable future, yes.
Morris is probably our long-term answer at power forward, but the guy has only played 11 games so let’s not anoint him just yet. Let’s say Frye is only needed as a backup to both of those players and is a stretch big off the bench for 20 minutes a game. $6M isn’t a crazy salary for that. Slightly overpaid maybe, but the players you propose giving to us here are garbage. The only contributor is Martell Webster and he’s out with a bad back.
This post is actually a good example of the folly of most rosterbation attempts. People think they know the needs and motivations of other teams when they don’t. Robin Lopez is on shaky ground and will be a RFA after this season. Warrick flopped as a PF and is flourishing (relatively) as a SF. Neither has Frye’s skill set and neither is a viable replacement should the Suns ship Frye away.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 14, 2012 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
It is impossible not to like Dudley IMO
We are asking too much of him currently in his role but he is perfect for the contract he has right now. Like I said above with Frye, I don’t see any reason to trade a great role player in Dudley for someone of lower quality. We aren’t giving up our core pieces for downgrades, we want to land a star (or close to it) with these players if we are to give them up. I would probably prefer to trade Frye before Dudley just because of all the things he brings although I am not a Frye hater either.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Point noted but...
Frye & Dudley plus whatever else aren’t going to get you a star player or anything near one. If another team is trading a star player, they are usually looking for good young players, rookie contracts, expiring contracts, and draft picks.
by roundhouse on Jan 14, 2012 3:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Suns fans don't want the truth!!
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Well I am not saying I want to trade them
If we don’t get someone who can get their own offense out of either of them there is no point to trade them. I say no giving up assets to acquire more role players.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I think what he's saying is the only way he'd be willing to give them up is if they are thrown in to help a big trade get done.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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However, if you really want Frye and Brown then a 2012 #1 draft pick would be enticing, if you’ve got one to spare…
Actually, they don’t… CLIPPERGEDDON!!!!!
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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Well aren't you just basketball jesus
“This post is actually a good example of the folly of most rosterbation attempts” – No, I think it is simply my friend Roundhouse trying to gauge the value of players like Channing Frye and the value of players the Wolves have. Like he said, none of us have any power to make trades, we just like to gain perspective.
1) Like we overvalue players on our favorite team, you overvalue Frye. A 20-minute-a-night backup big wont’ get you an all star in return. While this Wolves package appears to be unappealing to you all, don’t expect anything other than another platter of mediocrity for a player who is also mediocre.
2) Why such adoration of the backup big men positions? Do the Suns not need help elsewhere? Theoretically, any GM would give up a backup big man to gain a player at a position of higher need…say a starter in the back court.
3) I was wondering about Dudley…thoughts on him? Thanks for the perspective on Warrick. What about him is appealing? What does “flourishing” mean for you? I’ve always liked him and hoped he’d pull it together.
Watch out Ray... they travel in packs
Get it? Get it???
BAMF goes HAM.
by brian13 on Jan 14, 2012 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
I have never stated alone that Frye will net us an all-star
But to give him up he better be in a package for a really, really good player. Frye has tremendous value to a team that runs the kind of offense we do. He can hit the 3 when he is on his shot, he can post up decently (I do mean decently (meaning he can usually beat a smaller man)) and is playing much better defense and rebounding than he was giving us when he arrived. He is a pretty big key for our team because if Frye is struggling, we usually are as well. We played him a TON of minutes last year and he won quite a few games for us.
It is not that I adore Frye so much but really you are giving us some role players and that is it… Frye is a pretty solid NBA player and with only a few players under contract next season he is considered a core player at this point in time. We need help elsewhere but this trade addresses none of our needs to be honest. This team needs someone who can create their own shot and get to the foul line on their own. We need a star, or something close to that, and that is the only thing (I think) that would lure Dudley, Frye, Gortat, or Morris off this team.
I gave some thoughts above on Dudley but I guess I can elaborate. He is struggling somewhat as a starter (this shouldn’t be his role) but he is such a key piece for us. He has been known in his time in Phoenix to just change games when he comes in with his hustle and determination. He is a very good knockdown shooter from 3 or coming off a screen and he has improved his off the dribble and pull up jumpers. He is one of the better role players in the league (as someone who doesn’t provide a scoring 6th man role) IMO. He is more of a defender/3 point shooter.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Hey, I'm not trying to trade Frye at all.
The premise of this trade proposal is that the Suns are in a position that they need to trade Frye, and that’s false.
1.) The only value I’ve given Frye is that I think he’s worth his $6M on the Suns. He’s a starter now and in the future will at least be a very valuable backup.
2.) Such adoration? I like Frye as a role player. I don’t like the guys this trade proposal would send us. That’s it.
3.) We love Dudley around here but he’s a better fit as a backup than as a starter. Warrick isn’t truly all that appealing but he looks more comfortable and has been more consistent and productive this year as a wing player than he was as a PF, where his slight build and poor defense and rebounding were exploited by opponents.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 14, 2012 2:22 PM MST up reply actions
If Lopez was playing well, then I'd give you Frye and Telfair for Ridnour straight up.
We lose Frye and that forces Morris to start leaving us with no reliable backup big-man.
When Barea comes back, you’d guys have three decent PG’s and won’t be using one of them. So what we could do is we could give you Brown, Price (he’s better than Telfair) and a 2nd round pick for Ridnour or Barea. I’ll take either one. That’s not a bad deal considering the guy we’re trading for isn’t getting any minutes.
Don't trade Dudley!
Ahhh, now we're talking
I’ll bring this back to my people :)
All in all, probably helpful for both teams, no?
by Daddyfatsax on Jan 14, 2012 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
Barea is not going to be traded
he was signed as much for mentorship for Rubio and ability to speak Spanish as for his on court production. He’s been really good for us so far when not hurt.
I think that’s actually a pretty reasonable trade offer for Ridnour. Price would work as 3rd PG and as I’ve already stated Brown is an upgrade over what we have at SG.
That trade in bold makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Why on earth would we give up Frye for Ridnour? Price is doing fine as our backup PG. Why get rid of our constantly-improving starting PF to create an unnecessary logjam at PG? Lopez playing well doesn’t make the trade make any more sense either. It still leaves us with a hold at PF and a logjam at PG.
by iwasneveryoung on Jan 14, 2012 5:06 PM MST up reply actions
Ridnour would be awesome
He’s like Nash light – Shouts well, can run the PnR, average D against smaller guards… he’d be absolutely ideal.
Ridnour is a pick n roll PG
who can shoot. He could run the same offense that Nash does. So we wouldn’t have to completely change our scheme when Steve leaves the floor.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
That's one of the things I like about our depth tho.
I like that things change up a bit with the bench playing.
by iwasneveryoung on Jan 15, 2012 6:54 AM MST up reply actions
This would be a good trade if you replace Pekovic with Ridnour
We’ll throw in Telfair to sweeten the trade.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
None of those players help us
And we’d be giving up frye, who is our second most important weapon on offense.
by forget on Jan 14, 2012 6:34 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Morris will step in for Frye since they both like to hang in the 3pt. area
We’d get Ridnour who would probably be the best backup guard the Suns will get in Nash era. Price and Telfair lack of offense will be replaced by Ridnour offense.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
So our sole reason for doing trade like this is to upgrade our backup PG???
Lol that’s not a good enough reason to give away a good 6’11 stretch 4
by forget on Jan 14, 2012 9:58 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
What Frye brings in the offense is 3pt shooting which can be replaced by Morris
I don’t know why you need to bring Frye’s height when majority of his offense comes from jumpshots. Ridnour’s skill set would better fit the need of Suns right now as the Suns don’t have any capable PG to backup Nash.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
So you want Keef playing 35-40 minutes as a rookie?
And you want Lopez being our only back-up at center?
You’re creating a hole in our frontcourt to fix our hole in the backcourt. Just rearranging deck chairs or however that phrase goes.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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And it's not even filling the biggest hole in our backcourt lol
Which is SG.
by forget on Jan 15, 2012 1:16 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Does Frye play 35 to 40 minutes?
All I’m saying is all that 3pt. shooting Frye brings can be supplemented by starting Morris. Him and Warrick can share the minutes.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
So then you're putting Chilly back into the rotation at SF?
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His 3pt range is the most important thing he brings to the offense
But the dude rebounds and plays pretty good D. His length helps him in those areas…
I’m not sure if Morris could hold up as well as frye on D, he’s a little small
by forget on Jan 15, 2012 1:28 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I dont want keiff to be lile frye
I want him to bang down low. id rather have 2 pf with different skills to have versatility. I dont want keiff to learn fryes game of shoot and dont rebound. Thats how we got here in the first place
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 18, 2012 2:55 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Darko sucks ass though
Like really he is a brick on offense and has D because hes seven ft. id take 10-11 Rolo before darko. These minny cats r tryna rip us off, dont buy into this garbage umless picks are involved. How many times have they been to the playoffs since getting ole number 2 pick darko. At least lopez wasnt expected to be all world. The greatest euro big since dirk. I bet detroit wishes they drafted melo or dwade or chris bosh in that draft.
My point is darko can be 6’11 or 8’2.. He still is ryan leaf
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 18, 2012 3:04 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
There have a been a couple of variations of this trade posted by Suns fans here that I like
Brown & Price for Luke Ridnour
and
Frye, Brown, and Bassy for Ridnour, Webster, and Wes.
What does everyone think of these trades? Although I don’t know how happy Bassy would be to be traded to the Wolves for the 3rd time hahaha
I don't see how that helps either team
Frye would just add to your logjam at the PF position, and brown is not much better than Wes Johnson.
And that trade is just horrible for us. Webster is hurt all of the time, wes sucks, and we have a pretty good backup already in Ronnie price. And we’d be losing one of our most important players in frye.
Lol neither team accomplishes anything with this trade
by forget on Jan 14, 2012 7:02 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I would do the first trade fo sho
No to the second one. Frye is a good enough shooter/rebounder/defender not to give up unless we are improving the roster.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Frye gets a lot of love here
because he’s improved his game every offseason he’s been here. He added the 3 point shot before his first season here, improved his post up game the next offseason (from godawful to only bad), seems to have improved his rebounding this last offseason.
We tend to view him in terms of what he will eventually be, which is still better than what he is now (which isn’t bad).
Also, he played his college ball here in AZ, so he has the whole hometown hero thing going for him.
And, Frye took less money to stay here, so he clearly doesn’t want to be traded.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
How about Lopez and spare parts for
Ridnour?
Lopez needs a scenery change to do well, but has a lot of potential. He’s been hampered here by a coach he didn’t get along with (Porter), an injury, and then we traded for Gortat and he got relegated to 2nd string.
However, he’s young (22), big (7’2"), athletic for that size, and has a really nice set shot from 14-20 feet, as well as being an excellent FT shooter (80%).
He’s not a good rebounder for that size, but you already have Love so that wouldn’t be an issue. He would be a big upgrade offensively over any center you have now.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
He compared Robin to Darko above and said no thanks.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
That's silly
Darko is 3 inches shorter, can’t shoot free throws, and has no face up jumper.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
I think they are both 7 foot
Robby seems shorter though because he slouches
by forget on Jan 15, 2012 1:14 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Darko's 6'11"
Lopez grew an inch and a half during the extended offseason.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Are you just making up heights out of nowhere?
or are you measuring Lopez’s fro to give him that extra couple inches?
BAMF goes HAM.
Nah I heard that on the radio
from Gambo. Well the part about Lopez.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Nba.com says 7ft
And he looks every bit of it on the court
by forget on Jan 15, 2012 11:43 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
You would know your guy better than me
but Lopez is taller than he was listed at last year.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Well, good conversation but...
Looks like these teams aren’t ideal partners. If all of us can’t get it done on here I doubt these two middling owners could do any better. On to the next one. Come on over to Twolvesblog.com if you have a inexplicable desire to trade us Gortat!
Gortat for Kevin Love
This trade sounds good to me.
Sure, I'd trade you Shannon Brown and Channing Frye...I'll give throw in Sebastian Telfair because I'm feeling super generous.
…For Derrick Williams and either Ridnour or Barea.
Dear Bill,
Fuck You.
-Charles
Letter that Charles Barkley sent to Bill Lambieer through a ballboy during the 89-90 season....Moments later, Barkley and Lambieer got into a fist fight.

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