DeMarcus Cousins

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM MST

With all the drama surrounding DeMarcus Cousins, should the Suns pursue a trade with Sacramento to get him?

He's young and extremely talented, but he's often a locker room pill and just as lazy as he is talented. But how much of that is because he's the most talented on a very young team coached by a hard-ass coach. I know Westphal is a talented and experienced coach, but he's never been known as a players coach either. He's an in your face kind of guy.

Could Cousins come to Phoenix and excel under the tutelage of experienced players liks Nash, Hill, Frye, Gortat, and Dudley. Guys that play hard because they love the game. Guys that have reputations of being hard workers. Guys with experience in this league.

Sacramento probably would want a decent return for Cousins, but I'd be willing to give up a 1st rounder, Warrick, and Childress for Cousins and Travis Outlaw. I would then move Lopez and Outlaw for a SG. Something like this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wq3tov

The lineup would look like this:

PG - Nash - Telfair - Price

SG - Mayo - Brown - Redd

SF - Hill - Dudley - Mayo/Redd

PF - Frye - Cousins - Morris

C - Gortat - Cousins - Frye

As most of the regulars on here know, I'm a Lopez fan (not crazy fan, but I'm not a hater). So I don't want to just dump him, but I think it really makes the Suns a threat this year and next without blowing up all the cap space that the Suns have for this coming offseason. Mayo is on the final year of his deal so he could stay or go and Cousins is super cheap at only $3.6M. Morris will still get playing time. The one that gets pushed out is Michael Redd, but it will take a few more weeks for him to hit full playing speed, so when he's healthy again he can actually give Hill a day off.

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I love the idea of trading for Cousins

But they’re not taking the package you offered in a million years. He’s too talented, and he was drafted too high.
I think it would take Lopez/Gortat + Morris + Future 1st rounder to get it down. I’d rather give them Lopez, but it would probably take Gortat to get it done.
It would be a huge coup. The Suns would have a go-to scoring threat to fix the anemic offense, we’d have a shot at the playoffs, and we’d actually have something to sell to free agents this summer

by UASun on Jan 2, 2012 1:56 PM MST reply actions

they may not make the deal

but I wouldn’t trade Gortat or Morris. I’d be willing to part with Frye or Lopez, but it doesn’t do the Suns any good to move Morris or Gortat. The point of the trade is to let Sacramento get away from Cousins, gives them a new high draft pick, and players who can provide some veteran presence without being locker room headaches.

I don’t disagree that I’d be surprised if that specific deal went down, but Warrick has been playing much better already this year. So they might be apt to bring him in. Maybe even give a future 2nd round pick to smooth it over, so 2 picks, Warrick and Childress.

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 3:37 PM MST up reply actions

I agree, Styks. I would not trade Gortat or Morris. If they want something like Frye, Lopez and a pick or Warrick, Lopez and a pick, I’d do it. And they can have Brown too if they want.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 3, 2012 11:30 AM MST up reply actions

We should jump on this opportuninty

Headcase or not, a frountcourt of Cousins and Gortat would be balls out amazing.

by rzyn on Jan 2, 2012 2:30 PM MST reply actions

Don´t give any picks ! This year is golden

I would give them Lopez+Chilly

Blind enough to believe on Pudgemonster.

by Lino Canaan on Jan 2, 2012 4:04 PM MST reply actions

Won't work

No one wants JChill and bad salary match.

But why not Lopez straight up – http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=78kh3s5 ?

by MMotherwell on Jan 3, 2012 2:52 AM MST up reply actions

Agree, No to draft picks

by Grockcubs on Jan 3, 2012 7:29 AM MST up reply actions

Any Cousins trade that would decrease Morris playing time is a no-no

Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment

by Spit_Fire on Jan 2, 2012 4:19 PM MST reply actions

I like Morris too

But whaaaaaat? Cousins could be a franchise player. You don’t avoid him to just to play a fringe starter

by UASun on Jan 2, 2012 6:41 PM MST up reply actions

+1

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 9:06 PM MST up reply actions

Who said we'd play him?

He is a punt, we can always send him to the D League to get his head right, and maybe we can put strict conditions on him?

by MMotherwell on Jan 3, 2012 2:52 AM MST up reply actions

Disagree because I NEED Morris to stay here.

"What's with today, today?" - Lucas

by Walter ChronKite on Jan 2, 2012 4:33 PM MST reply actions

Be careful what you wish for

Cousins will be a locker room cancer, play like an all-star for a game, then disappear and yell at teammates the next.

Totally not worth bothering with!

Morris is turning out to be a solid pick, so why bother adding a guy that will absolutely not help us win, but most certainly make sure our players hate each other.

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 2, 2012 5:13 PM MST reply actions 1 recs

I think

he’s been a cancer because he doesn’t have any veteran leadership to lean on. He would in Phoenix.

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 6:00 PM MST up reply actions

Exactly

Players like that pan out after they get traded from their rookie team.

Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club

by AcucracK on Jan 2, 2012 11:41 PM MST up reply actions

Actually,

players like that usually go from team to team, doing the same thing they always do.

Kings hired Cousins father as an assistant in hopes he would keep him in check. If his own dad can’t, why would you think Cousins would listen to ANY veteran?

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 3, 2012 2:53 PM MST up reply actions

The guy left cause Westphal didn't listen to him but once

Honestly, it looks like Westphal is to blame for all the Cousins drama, here’s what Cousins told him IN PRIVATE, per Sports Illustrated:
“If you think I’m such a cancer to this team, then trade me now.”

Doesn’t look near as bad as it was reported at first. Cousins did the right thing and talked TO HIS COACH. Problem is, Westphal is a moron he went public with the story. Who in their right mind does that to the player the whole franchise is hanging on? Imagine if Gentry went public every time Nash expressed any doubts over the Suns future to him in private? You know it happened, but no one in their right mind talks to the press about that because it just ruins chemistry.

Oh well, may Westphal run Cousins outta town. He will flourish wherever he goes and I would love to see DMC in PHX, he has the competitive fire, he works hard (dude shaved off, what, 20 pounds this Summer?) and despite playing for the worst coach in the NBA is still averaging a double-double in his sophomore season.

RoLo for DMC straight-up.

Give me Nash-Dudz-Hill-Cousins-Gortat errday, Morris can be the first guy off the bench.

by rzyn on Jan 3, 2012 2:58 PM MST up reply actions

well

I am not one to defend Westphal, the second worst coach the Suns have ever had. I am sure he is awful, but what I do know is that he is one of the most non-confrontational people in the world. That is part of his problem.

However, I talked with Truck Robinson yesterday, and while I will not divulge anything specific he said, I will say that I am sticking to my theory on Cousins and wouldn’t trade for him.

Nothing you can say about some alleged private meeting where the information has been told to some third party who wrote it in SI can change my mind. Is that really accurate information or is it spin from Cousins camp? Who knows, certainly you don’t.

Chemistry is a major factor in success and I believe we would lose it if our “alpha dog” going forward is Cousins. [remember, nash and Hill are gone soon, and Gortat is not talented enough to be an alpha].

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 4, 2012 12:01 PM MST up reply actions

It's just a quote, there's no need for insiders, all you gotta do is watch the Kings play and listen to them in post-game interviews

You have Tyreke Evans, primary ball-handler for the Kings, saying he DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE OFFENSE. AT ALL. He tries hard, but he’s often relegated to hero ball or bull-rushing down the court on one man fastbreaks ala. Lebron just to score 2 points.

You have Marcus Thornton relegated to being a chucker when he’s easily the best off the dribble shooter at the SG position in the NBA right now, however under Westphal he has to play point-guard for reasons unknown.

You have Demarcus Cousins playing the Chris Webber/Divac role as a high post passer except there’s no one to pass too, so every time he want to score has to work harder than any other player in the league since he gets no real plays ran for him in the post. The kid has to back down centers from 18 feet out to score.

Honestly, the Kings offense is just a series of isos for everyone with movement without any rhyme or reason from everyone else. It looks like a pick-up game.

Him joining the Suns would be a miracle for our offense. Gentry has some darn good post plays drawn up with no one to convert on them. Every time I see Channing get the ball in a good position on the block I cringe, because I know he’ll most likely clank it off the back iron or get denied by the rim. Gortat has his moments, but he’s just not built for anything more than an occasional hook shot, same goes for RoLo.

DMC is an old-school bang it out back to basket big guy on top of having the faceup game of your average “modern” PF, not to mention his properly ridiculous wingspan and frame. All his “shenanigans” stem from him need to win. He’s not bringing guns into the locker room for fun ala. Arenas. He went in on his coaches during practice (including Truck), so I’m not surprised that Robinson would bad mouth him, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he has no idea about coaching since the Kings assistant job is his first coaching job. He got into an altercation with Donte Green after a close loss where he did not pass him the ball when he was set down low instead settling for a long clanking 2. He “demanded” a trade, IN PRIVATE, after Westphal scapegoated him for the teams horrendous play, despite that and Westphal venting about him in public he dropped 26 points just two games later on 75% shooting. Suns have nothing going on for them, zilch, nada.

WE NEED THE CANCER THAT IS DMC. WE NEED SOMETHING, ANYTHING. GIVE US THE CANCER WESTPHAL. PRETTY PLEASE.

by rzyn on Jan 5, 2012 2:49 AM MST up reply actions

cousins

shot 43% from the field as a Big, 30.4% from 3-9 feet. Is the third worst fouling big in the game – one foul every 7 min. His numbers are actually down from last year -maybe team is to blame, but I think players play no matter what. Had one good game, but still shooting 31% from the field, is an average defender, a head case and erratic [John Williams wannabe].

Yes, he has potential for stardom, but has greater chance for failure and you want to build around that guy. You are crazy. I’ll stick with watching Gortat muddle his way through 13 point 7 reb games.

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 5, 2012 11:11 AM MST up reply actions

Have you ever seen the Kings play?

His shooting is that bad because he simply HAS to create every single one of his shots or else nothing happens. He gets the ball 18 feet away from the hoop and is expected to make it all the way to the rack, without any movement from his team or any help at all, he’s not even getting fed the ball in his spots. The just force feed it to him at the top of the key and expect results.

Also, Westphail just got fired. HOW SURPRISING.

by rzyn on Jan 5, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions

Look at Odom for example.

Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club

by AcucracK on Jan 3, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions

I look at probabilities

I would say, from my experience, that less than 5% of players overcome their “issues” to become solid citizens. Odom may well be part of that 5%.

But if you are hinging your franchise upon a 5% chance, you are making a stupid bet. The league is littered with failed experiments like that. Few success stories.

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 4, 2012 12:09 PM MST up reply actions

The only guy I want from Sac

Is Marcus Thornton. He’d be a perfect fit. DeMarcus is greatly talented, probably on his way to be much better than Keef will ever be, but he is messed up and seems to have low work ethic.

by pereplyotkin on Jan 2, 2012 5:13 PM MST reply actions

he came into this season down on weight and up on skills that other players hadn’t been working on. So I can’t knock his ethic too much. Is it suspect, yes. But it is fixable.

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions

They aren't trading him

All Cousins said is he felt that if they don’t play him, then just trade him, he doesn’t really mean anything by it and his team was just giving him a time out basically.

"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com

by NASHTY777 on Jan 2, 2012 5:34 PM MST reply actions

I saw those articles too

but then later in the day, I saw more info on it saying that while he didn’t initially ask for a trade, his agent was looking into anyways since they sent him home.

by styks on Jan 2, 2012 6:02 PM MST up reply actions

OHHHhhhh

"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com

by NASHTY777 on Jan 2, 2012 6:07 PM MST up reply actions

Lopez Straight up

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=78kh3s5 – that’s a great trade for both teams – as Lopez is playing much better but is stuck behind Marcin, and we get our massive risky punt. I’d even throw in a lotto protected 2012 1st rounder, just to get it done.

by MMotherwell on Jan 3, 2012 2:54 AM MST reply actions

Nobody would trade Cousins for Lopez straight up

There is an abbyss between them…

Feed the cutter!!!

by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 9, 2012 4:43 PM MST up reply actions

No. Do. Not. Want.

by Grockcubs on Jan 3, 2012 7:26 AM MST reply actions

What are we, the Betty Ford clinic?

This is just from the top of my head, we rescue Shaq from Miami in the hopes he can revive his career. J-Rich wasn’t going anywhere either in Charlotte, we took in a refugee called J-Chill, hoped Hedu and Vince Carter would find some of their former glory. The latest being Michael Redd who hasn’t seen any proper actions in more than a year.

On top of this people are proposing trades to get Cousins and Beasley in the Valley. Why are we only looking at basket cases and the unhealthy to improve our team? Almost every signing or trade in the past few year have been gambles. I just don’t get it.

by TCB on Jan 3, 2012 7:36 AM MST reply actions

you're comparing apples to carrots

Shaq was a D’Antoni/Sarver demand that Kerr didn’t want to do.
J-Rich worked out rather well if I remember correctly.
J-Chill and Hedu were nepotism by a GM who doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Vince Carter was an attempt at setting up to shed salary and hopefully have a shooter to play next to Nash.
Redd is cheap and a shooter, no harm being don.
Beasley is a waste. He’s not a top 10 draft talent. He’s not a huge upside guy. I wouldn’t trade Ronnie Price to get him.

Cousins is a different matter. He’s a top 5 talent when he wants to be. But he needs respectable veterans around him to show him how to want it. To show him how to put in the time and effort. To show him how to practice. To show him how to respect the game.

We all know that the Suns aren’t going anywhere this year. Bottom 2 seed of the playoffs if they’re lucky. Pulling in Cousins preps for the future faster. We can’t be guarenteed that Howard or Williams or any of the other big name free agents at the end of the year will even remotely be interested in Phoenix. The only reason the Suns got Nash was because he’d played here before. If players like Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudamire don’t want to stay in town, why would other big names even bother to come to Phoenix in the first place? The best way to get talent into Phoenix is by trade and draft. I’d rather pick up a disgruntled player who is young and fixable than old and set in his ways. When you have a veteran team to surround a player that hasn’t played with veterans before, you’re much more likely to be able to change a players attitude.

Cousins could come in and play next to Morris, Dudley, Gortat, and Brown for the next 5 years. With that lineup, you might be able to get a D-Will to come and play here. They’d be big, strong, talented, and most of all, young. It’s a risk, but I think it’s a safe one to take. His salary isn’t inflated so he doesn’t eat up the space currently saved, hopefully by moving Childress and Warrick you have a couple different open slots on the roster to chase a couple different FAs rather than just going for one or two specific players and having a complete failure of FA signing if you miss those two marquee players.

by styks on Jan 3, 2012 7:51 AM MST up reply actions

agree with most of what you said

but Cousins has a LONG history of mental instability and has yet to respond to the many influential basketball minds that he has come across. This guy isn’t going to change. he will have a 12 year career going from one team to the next, each team believing they can get through to him. Along the way, he will have moments where he will look like a top 10 player, only to melt down later and look like a fringe NBA player.

They guy is a waste of energy for the Suns. I would rather have a guy with a lower ceiling but played consistently enough to have a positive impact in our performance.

Guess what? We have have that guy in Morris and Gortat. If you want a guy with a lot of potential, you are better off gambling on the draft this year.

by hubertdavisfor3 on Jan 3, 2012 2:57 PM MST up reply actions

I didn’t say all these gambles didn’t work out, and for the ones that didn’t work out there off course is always and reason why it was done. It is obvious that the people in charge of trades, drafts and free agents signings for the Suns over the past decade haven’t been the most succesful ones.
I get that you have to be creative to get talent in Phoenix, and Cousins certainly is one. I think you are over estimating the effect our veterans will have on a kid like this. I may end up in hell for what I am about to say but…..Why would Cousins, if brought in, listen to two old timers who never really made it all the way and are clearly on their last legs. Specially if you consider that if the Suns trade for him we need him, so benching him isn’t a true option. My experience is that this in most cases is not a recipe for succes.

by TCB on Jan 3, 2012 8:57 AM MST reply actions

never really made it all the way???

I’m sorry, but isn’t Steve Nash a 2 time MVP, 7 time All Star, 3 time All NBA 1st Team? Isn’t Steve Nash one of the most respected players in the league? Why did Grant Hill (another of the most respected veterans) come back to Phoenix? To play with Steve Nash! Guys like Lopez and Childress and JRich come to Phoenix to play with Hill and Nash because they don’t tolerate the crap in the locker room. Amare would never have become the player he did if it weren’t for Nash provide veteran leadership to run the team. Stat’s ego would have gotten way too big for his britches. (yes, the “R” is supposed to be in that word…) Young guys do learn when provided with veteran mentorship and I think Cousins would learn well under the likes of Hill, Gortat, Nash, and even Frye.

by styks on Jan 3, 2012 11:45 AM MST up reply actions

Yeah I said it.....not all the way

Throw all the stats at it that you want, there is one blemish on his career, he never made it to the finals. He had several chances but fell short each time. I don’t blame him or am frustrated because of it but it is a fact. That is what I mean with not made it all the way. Nash and Hill are respected and made the most out of their careers and still do I won’t argue that…..hell I openly admit having a mancrush on these two.
My point is that you can not assume that a mental case like Cousins would respond to guys almost twice his age and not as dominant as they used to be. Veteran leadership works and young players can learn a lot from them. I’m sure Nash, Hill and also Redd are excellent teacher but like in every classroom in the world learning/growing only happens whith the right teacher/student combination. In this case that combination won’t work.

by TCB on Jan 3, 2012 4:13 PM MST up reply actions

Best possible trade scenario involving Nash

Suns should trade Nash and Gortat to sac town for cousins there first round pick this year and someone like salmons or garcia. This would be a perfect trade for both teams sac town gets a point gaurd in nash and a replacement for cuz in Gortat. Plus i think Sac town would go for it because they really need to sell tickets and who better to help with that then nash even if it is for a year and theyd probably make the playoffs with nash on that team. This would be the best possible trade for the suns involving nash in which we would get equal value we could get a cornerstone for our franchise in Cousins and have our frontcourt of the future in Cousins and Morris. Plus we would get another pick in this years draft which is extreamly stacked even if the pick was anywhere from 18-23 it would end up being a very talented player. We would no doubt be bad this year but hey in order to get good you got to be bad and re up in the draft. Lets be honest here with our roster the way it is right now there is no way in hell D williams or D howard would even think about coming here they both would be better off staying with there current teams. But if you get a player like cousins plus prob a top 5 pick (hopefully Harrison Barnes or MKG) this year and another pick later in a stacked draft then you have a team that a guy like D williams would possibly consider.

by purp&orngtillidie on Jan 4, 2012 4:03 PM MST reply actions