So uh....who exactly are we going to sign in 2012 again?
by rsavaj on Jan 21, 2012 8:48 AM MST
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PrintThe FO's plan has been to remain as competetive as we can this year and then use the 2012 offseason to reload/retool through free agency. All of their moves have been made with this summer's free agent market in mind.
We are going to have a pretty ridiculous amount of cap space going into the offseason(~$30 million I think), enough to sign two max FAs.
This sounds like an excellent plan:
1. Nail this year's draft
2. Add 2 max cats through free agency to play next to Steve and Gortat
3. Championship baby!
There's only one (big) problem with that plan. Jump it brosephs.
As this season wears on, the free agent market is beginning to dry up quickly. Let's look at who will be available:
http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nba-free-agency/2011/12/20/2641521/nba-free-agents-2012-ranking-dwight-howard-deron-williams
Tier 1 has all the guys we've been salivating over for a year. Dwight, Deron, Love(RFA), Westbrook(RFA). The problem is that it doesn't appear like any of those guys will be available.
Dwight has given his list of teams he'd like to play for : LAL, LAC, DAL, NJ.
Deron Williams has given his list too : LAL, NYK, DAL, and he's okay with reupping in NJ if Dwight signs there.
So scratch both of those guys off the list. We can offer them both max contracts and the opportunity to play together, but it appears as though they're set on bigger, flashier markets. We don't have a chance.
That leaves Westbrook, who signed an extension worth 80 million, and Love, who said he wants to sign an extension with 'Sota.
If Love is off the market, we should go after Eric Gordon(RFA). He's a young, dynamic scorer who would be a perfect fit here. He is injury prone, which makes me hesitant to offer him max money, but his potential makes him worth it, IMO. There's only one problem. He says he's open to reupping in NO .
Even if they don't sign extensions with their respective teams, they are still restricted, which means that their team can match any offer we put on the table. Does this worry anybody else? Who exactly are we going to bring in to turn our team around? Who's left? Going down that list, almost every young player that could possibly help us (Bropez, Batum, Gallo, McGee, Hibbert, Asik, Augustin, Mayo, Anderson, Hill, Arthur, Hickson, Randolph, Thompson, Fernandez, Speights, Bayless, Fields) is a restricted free agent, which means we are going to have to overpay in order to snag them away from their teams.
That's a really bad scenario. Going into this offseason with a huge war chest and pretty much nobody to spend it on almost ensures that we're going to be offering A-level contracts to B-level players, and that is a recipe for disaster(just ask Detroit!).
Sure, there are some youngish UFAs we could pursue(Oden, Dragic, Miles, Hawes, Green, Bellinelli), and a lot of UFA vets(Diaw, LB, Ray Ray, KG, Duncan, Kidd, Billups, Felton, Landry, Hinrich, Terry, Delfino, Ilyasova, Camby, Kaman, etc.), but none of them are franchise cornerstones, at least not anymore.
So what is the plan exactly? Hope that Nash signs another 2 year extension, write off the 2012-2013 season as another "bridge year", and then try this plan again when Nash is 39 years old?
I really don't have a coherent way to end this, because I actually am confused about what the FO is trying to do. They have infinitely more resources than we do, and if we're aware of this slight potential snafu in their plan, then they obviously are as well. I just don't know what their Plan B, break glass in case of emergency scenario is.
Any thoughts?
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This is a point well taken
While the Suns have been able to attract free agents, they have never been superstar level. Nash is probably the best, but he wasn’t viewed as a superstar the year we signed him, which is how we got him.
I do think we should throw the kitchen sink at Eric Gordon; I just think the Hornets will match no matter what (David Stern doesn’t want a black mark like Gordon walking away under his watch). I would be down for a sign-and-trade, either giving them something like our draft pick and Lopez. That is what it would take; this guy could very well be the best SG in the L in 2 or 3 years.
If the Suns are able to pick up 2 out of the Batum-Gallo-Mayo-Hill quartet, I think it will be a success. A Nash-Batum/Mayo/Hill-Gallo/Dudley-Morris-Gortat group can make a good run in the playoffs. Add in whoever you draft this year, and now we actually have the group of “attractive assets” (Morris-Dudley-2FAs-Draft Pick-Lopez) Sarver is always talking about, that we could trade for the superstar.
I thin targeting the 2 RFAS is the way to go.
But I still think this is a really good point. We aren’t signing a savior this offseason
or just sign Batum this summer, and keep cap space for harden/ibaka next year when OKC can’t afford to keep all 4.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
A backcourt of Eric Gordon and James Harden
would be terrific. It seems achievable, but who knows?
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Not a Gordon fan
And he and Harden are too similar.
by MMotherwell on Jan 23, 2012 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
I like Harden more
Not injury prone and plays on both ends of the floor better than Gordon.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
Would LOVE LOVE LOVE getting Harden
A home grown player coming to the Suns, and he is a really good player. Such a good 6th man and could probably move into a more dominant role.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I was thinking the same thing about gordon
How can stern let gordon walk after basing his whole cp3 “bball reasons” deal on him. I beleive we go after him for a max. Then go after batum for a b level contract since he still hasnt been re_upping for portland. They bith will be even better next year and play up to their contracts.
If we can only manage to sign one of these 2 then the person we draft should fill the unsigned spot.
Nash-price-brooks
Gordon-or Draft
Batum or trade or draft
Keiff-frye
gortat- rolo will probably be traded being a rfa so maybe a savy vet or decent avg backp up.
Hak gets his 15 20 mins at the Fwd spots. I think we need gordon or batum though. But like the FO said were gonna build through trade apparently
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 1:07 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Battum?
Is he any better than Warrick? He seems to have lost his place in the rotation with Portland. I agree with rsavaj. The management of this team has no plan in place that makes any sense in terms of signing a significant player. Sarver appears to be running the team with notes written on napkins that go through the wash.
Way better then warrick
Even if hes the same skill level as warrick he has more upside and might be able to come cheaper. Depends on how bad portland wants him
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 3:37 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
But yes I agree
The FO dont seem to have any.plans….trade maybr?
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 3:37 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
oh well
Might as well abandon any plan to have cap space then… extend all the current guys!
Seriously, the Suns wanted max cap space in the future because it gives you max flexibility. You can take on bad contracts and get draft picks for your trouble (OKC) and rebuild that way. You can overpay a young player (Joe Johnson). You can do a lot of things with lots of cap room AND a desire to spend it (unlike Minny, for example). Sarver has always shown a willingness to spend up to the lux tax.
It’s not a quick, quick fix. But it starts with cap space and draft picks.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
plus, with cap space you can make any lopsided trade you want. No salary matching needed.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Sorry Alex,
I’m not convinced that there is any plan in place other than saving money. We already know that the team has the ability to create poor trades, to sign poor players to overly generous contracts and to accept trades for bad players with horrendous contracts. The management of this team is simply inept. I wouldn’t be surprised if we did get Mike Bibby. UGH
The point is
Sarver is selling false hope. He said we would stockpile young assets to trade for a stud. None of our players have much trade value.
He said we were preserving cap space for 2012. There’s not much hope available in 2012.
Short of hitting the jackpot in the draft, this team will be mediocre for while.
It’s not bad to be upset at this, unless the Suns plan on slashing ticket prices by 50%
by UASun on Jan 21, 2012 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
This is EXACTLY my thoughts (fears)
The only positive possibility is to actually persuade Dwill and Dwight to play together if they go to free agency. The only way we convince them is that we would most likely have the best supporting cast out of the rest of the teams that can afford to sign both via free agency. Out of the restricted FA only Love would warrant max money which Minny will surely match. What I envision is us doing is giving someone like Garnett and Allen huge 1-2year deals and trying for a title run with Nash, Hill, Garnett, Allen and the rest of the gang then crapsville (the game craps…or poop. whichever you prefer) after that. I would like to see us go after Felton and Bellinelli as well, as long as they come at the right price.
That would be an interesting and kind of crazy idea...
If we have 30 mill available, do we spend give out 1 yr, 10 mill deals to both Allen and KG, and then maybe try to swing for the fences with one of the lesser RFA guys (Gallo, Bropez, etc.) and sign them to a multiyear contract starting at 10 million this year?
Nash/?
Allen/Dudley
Gallo/Frye?
KG/Markieff
Gortat/Lopez
I dunno…..I hope they have a plan. Like Alex said, we’ll just have to wait and see what opportunities present themselves(via trade or something else)
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I don't think so.
Looks like we will sign a few more role players and put the money in Sarver’s pocket. The Suns might qualify for the Roles Bowl.
We overpay for Eric Gordon
I hope it doesn’t take a sign and trade though. I’d give them a future 1st rounder, Frye and Lopez (if he’s still here). I don’t believe an over-payed Gordon is worth Morris and Dudley though. It’d be like overpaying a younger Joe Johnson and JJ never was a franchise player. It’s only worth overpaying for a guy like that if we’re contending and we won’t be able to contend without a bench. You guys understand what I mean?
It means that I’d rather have Dudley, Morris a 1st round pick and capspace to use later instead of spending most of it on Joe Johnson (Eric Gordon) and not having much flexibility for a long time.
I’d prefer if they trade Lopez this season for a 1st round pick, even if it’s a late one.
Let’s say we can achieve this. We’d then have Eric Gordan and two first round picks to go with Gortat, Dudley and Morris. With one of those picks we could select a possible future PG to replace Nash. Then we re-sign Nash for about 5-8 mil (Hopefully he just takes 5 or 6). With the rest of the capspace we find a replacement for Grant Hill. We use that money for either Batum, Gallo or Wilson Chandler. It’d probably take about 7-8 mil on a long-term deal to get one of those guys. Keep in mind that Childress will be amnestied.
PG Nash/draft pick
SG Gordon/Dudley
SF Chandler?/Warrick or Hill if he’ll re-sign for like the vet’s minimum.
PF Morris/Frye?
C Gortat/draft pick
We can become a contender after one summer, it’s just going to take a lot of good negotiating. The toughest part is prying Gordon from the Hornets and then hoping that at least one of Gallo, Chandler and Batum are still available. In fact, we should probably go after one of those three first since the chances of stealing Gordon are low. Just don’t overpay any of those guys.
Don't trade Dudley!
I just want to add
If they fail to land Gordon then I’d understand. He’s a restricted free agent. However, if they fail to do that, but also come up empty handed in this free agency class or sign someone who isn’t that good then I’d be really upset. We at least need to get Gallo or someone similar out of this summer. I’m not saying we have to pull a Detroit and sign Ben Gordon and Villanariv or whatever. We just need to come out of this summer with someone good, but still have a lot of capspace for the future.
Don't trade Dudley!
Here's a "yeah right!" trade
Lopez, Warrick, Chilly for Camby straight up. You never know. It gives Portland warm (younger) bodies which they are always in need of, and Camby is an expiring that isn’t producing as well as he use to. That would give us a total of 19mil on the books going into next year’s free agency, not to mention relieve us of the chilly that never was. I look at this and think…lol.
no way dallas does it imo
they want available money for their own max guys (deron, howard).
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Completely agree,
I was just looking at what teams had an expiring contract that matches those three guys salaries. I’m pretty sure Portland wouldn’t do it either.
What we should do is
front load some contracts to the RFA’s so they won’t any available money to spend it on improvements if they match, if they don’t well we have those players anyways to build on.
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
Another name to toss out there is Gerald Wallace. I heard that he won’t extend with Portland, and he might not pick up his player option so he can get a longer term deal now while he’s still in his prime.
As for your list, I’d definitely be happy with any of the top 5. There are plenty of interesting players in the RFA list as well, and it might be worth it to sign one of them to a long-term deal with some of the cap space.
But right now, I’m trying not to think about FA. I’ll just wait until it’s much closer.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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I like wallace as well
Only thing that scares me is his injury history but in this system hed be an allstar. Were faster than portland and he still puts up nice digits
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 1:18 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Can he shoot?
That’s pretty much a requirement in our offense…
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
He’s far from a knock-down shooter, but he’s really worked on his game and is at least a passable shooter now.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
It's hard not to like Gerald Wallace.
He would be a great fit for the Suns. I wonder why he is or will be available. How many teams has he been with thus far in his career?
He has been with 2 teams: Charlotte Bobcats and Portland Trailblazers
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
...and the Kings
Portland has a big decision on its hands with Batum and Wallace contracts ending. I don’t see them offering Batum a huge extension before the deadline.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 23, 2012 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
I like beavis’s idea. We should have more than enough money to pry gordon away from the hornets, assuming stern doesn’t put a stop to it.
The one thing i don’t want to give up is draft picks,especially since this draft is reported to be absolutely loaded with good talent. The chances of us being in position to draft an impact rookie for next season are very high.
It shouldn’t really matter if we’re in the high lottery or positioned just outside of it, we’ll still come away with a pretty good talent to build around. We obviously won’t be getting westbrook,love,williams or howard so the draft(like it or not) is our best chance to improve and add great young talent for the future.
We might be able to get gordon,we might not, but we have to have a contingency plan in place just in case we get nothing from free agency.
I think you've portrayed the situation fairly accurately.
There is risk in any plan, and the risk with the Suns current course of action seems to be availability of free agent talent. If the equation was as simple to balance as creating cap space equals star free agent signings, then everyone would do it.
Being average with cap space is better than being average with crippling contracts, so I hope the Suns manage their ability to spend well.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
You can always "overpay" on a 1-year contract
and then re-load the following year. So go give a 1-year max deal to a Ray Allen or something, and then the year after pursue that free agent class.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Here's how it needs to go down.
Trade Lopez, Warrick, and Price to Atl for Hinrich (expiring) and ATL’s first rounder. Then in the offseason amnesty Chilly, re-sign Nash and Hill (if he doesn’t retire), get Gallinari, sign Garnett and Allen to front loaded deals (say 2 years. yr1-13 mil, yr2-6mil) get some solid talent via draft and boom, in 2012/13 you got:
PG- Nash, ??
SG- Allen, Dudz, ??
C- Gortat, Frye
SF- Gallinari, Hill or Dudz
PF- Garnett, Morris
Plus 2 draft picks
With the Garnett/Allen front loaded contracts you automatically free up 14mil in the second year to bring in someone else via free agency the following year. Someone like say Harden. Then the year after that, let Garnett and Allen walk and you have an additional 12mil off the books with the young talent in place to take over. Hopefully someone to take over for Nash at the point as well.
See?! It’s THAT simple.
Old ass team
Wtf wrong wiff you. Got players poppin bayer asprin before practices and games. Garnet maybe but we need a young guard.
Nash
Gordon/mayo
Wallace/batum/hill?
Garnet
Gortat.
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 3:44 AM MST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Really Interesting
Hinrich and a 1st looks really attractive to me in that scenario. I also like Gallo a lot, and Allen will I think remain the class of the NBA for quite some time.
I’d say ditch Garnett… the guy looks like he’s playing on one leg out there, now. Plus, he’s just a huge douche and I don’t think I could root for him.
Instead, re-sign Hinrich to that backup guard spot. He’s an elite perimeter defender that would help the identity of planet purple as a defense-first squad.
Overall, good job on an overhaul!
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
+1
Give Garnett the finger, but I’d be ok with Allen (if we can’t get Gordon)
Gallo is a great shooter, but bad on D (but has a lot of size). I like Chandler too, good on O and D, and can play 3 positions. Just not a lights-out shooter like Gallo. I’d be happy with either one, and Gordon, plus picks.
Beav;s plan was pretty much dead on. Try and get 2 first rounders this year to add to our signings.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
How about Danilo Gallinari?
He would be a go to scorer, and a guy who can draw fouls. I think he’s an elite offensive talent. Not much of a defender. Perfect fit for the Suns.
Oh, and because it needs saying… don’t try playing him out of position!
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Biggest problem
I don’t think Denver lets him go. He was the centerpiece to the Carmelo deal and has played well for them.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
I don't think they would match a max offer sheet for him
I’m not sure he’s worth it either.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
David Stern just gave up Chris Paul for Eric Gordon
So why would he trade Gordon for spare parts? He turned down Pau and Odom for Gordon and Kaman. Really I don’t see any offer being able to pry away Gordon.
I like Wilson Chandler, Batum, Tony Allen, Nick Young. Athletic young players with something to prove. Allen was voted best perimeter defender by the GMs and Memphis can’t offer him that much. Chandler is going to be a FA and I don’t see Denver being able to keep him with all their players. Batum is not used to his full potential in Portland and should be jumping at the chance to start on another team.
rsavaj and others sum it up correctly that Phoenix is not and never will be a primary destination for big name free agents. It’s up to management to figure out the winning combination of draft picks and breakout players like old Suns management. Maybe they can learn from the mistakes of last couple years instead of repeating them.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 23, 2012 12:56 PM MST reply actions
boston seems to have the same plan as the suns
as well as some other teams. so the chances of signing a FA that will actually help is pretty slim sad to say.
To get Wallace
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7c3l5gk
I don’t really know why the blazers would do this, the only reason is that they get a much needed center besides the aging Camby and the injury-prone Oden. The Suns would do this to add a very active defender and a good scorer.
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
hows about Price/Dudley/Lopez for Wallace
passing of the BAMF torch
by ninecharacters on Jan 24, 2012 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
To get Gallo
I really don’t know why the Nuggets would do this, but if they did, that would be the best trade we have ever made.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7akazsn
Harrington is one of the top pp48 in the league, he’s a really strong offensive punch that we really need right now(I know all of you hate him though) and Gallo is a great offensive player also
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
Its pretty obvious why Portland and Denver wouldnt do these trades
Theyre horrid, especially the Denver one. BUT, if we are going to go after these guys its going to be through free agency.
We could always sign Kwame Brown to a 1 year deal for a gazillion dollars
and then try again the next year. Har har.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Who knows who'll be available?
There is also trades – one to watch is Atlanta, who have $60 committed to 6 players – http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm
Until the chips fall, no one can know what will happen. All I know is we don;t wanna do a Detroit, and overpay for guys who aren’t that good.
Would anyone be willing to give up some of our cap space for more picks
I just can’t see us signing anyone great so taking on someone like Salmons, Maggette, Vilanueva, Biedrins or Drew Gooden could land us another lottery pick like the Cavs and Bobcats did last year.
I wouldn't object to taking on a Drew Gooden
in order to get that lottery pick that comes with him.
On the other hand, your trade machine trade… why did it take you 4 teams to trade Steve Nash and Robin Lopez for John Salmons and Roddy Beaubois?
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
I dont think the Suns have to do anything Major this off-season. If anyone is worth throwing all your money at it’s Howard and Howard only. Other wise there is nothing wrong with slowly improving your team through FA and drafts. If we didnt get Howard I would work on balancing out the Suns roster.
I would look at adding Batum, Mayo, Gallinari,Gerald Wallace, Roy Hebbert, Chris Kaman, Hasheem Thatbeet.
Suns on the trade Block – Warrick, Lopez, Chilly, Frye -
People are too caught up in Nash’s age. Nash is already old…its too late. No need to speed things upfor him. He’ll remain a Sun for as long as he desires.
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