Amare Stoudemire And Mike D'Antoni Got Exactly What They Wanted
by Alex Laugan on Jan 22, 2012 8:13 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintI watch Amare Stoudemire play these days - specifically against the Suns last week, and against Denver last night - and can't help but feel for him.
As a power forward who does not control the ball at the beginning of a possession, Amare is wholly dependent on the scheme and the players around him to get him the ball where he can score. Once Amare gets the ball in the post, or on the pick-and-roll, he scores it better than nearly any player in the league. There's a reason Amare is paid more than $16 million per year. He's worth it.
However, his presence becomes nothing more than a decoy when the guy holding the ball is Carmelo Anthony. Anthony took 18 shots to Amare's 2 in the last 22 game minutes - 4th quarter plus 2 overtimes. Oh, and the Knicks lost because Denver started triple-teaming Melo, who went 2 for 8 in the overtimes, while Amare's only shot came with 7 seconds left in a 6-point deficit.
To hear the Knicks' gamecallers on NBATV, this was no aberration. It's simply life with Carmelo. Anyone but Melo is now just a decoy. Sound familiar? Remember when the Nuggets were considered selfish and full of too much one-on-one heroism? That disappeared last February. Since Melo was traded, Denver has become a MUCH better team.
And now, Amare gets what he asked for. Well, not exactly I guess. He wanted to be the man in New York. He wanted to be Batman. And he wanted a few Robins around him. I doubt he envisioned the Robin that he actually got, in Carmelo Anthony.
In the fourth quarter and 2 overtimes of last night's nip-and-tuck game against Denver, Amare TOUCHED the ball no more than a handful of times. And he took 2 shots: one that drew free throws in the 4th, and then a meaningless 3-ptr with 7 seconds left in the second overtime with a 6 point deficit. That's 22 minutes of game time (12 fourth quarter + 2 five-minute overtimes), where one of the greatest scoring machines in the NBA barely touched the ball. He must have been double or triple teamed to deny him the ball, right? Uh, no. He was being defended in those 22 minutes by either Al Harrington or Nene.
It's just that once Carmelo Anthony got the ball, he was going to take the shot. And for some reason, he got the ball on nearly every Knick possession. If D'Antoni had visions of Anthony making smart choices with the ball, he was sorely mistaken. In the first three quarters (36 minutes of play), Carmelo Anthony went 1-12 on shots. ONE FOR TWELVE. So what does he do in the fourth quarter and 2 overtimes (22 minutes of play)? He takes 18 more, of course. Buoyed by three successful layups to start the run, he made half of those (9-18) and drew two additional shooting fouls. That's good right?
Not when Denver realized Anthony had tunnel vision and started triple-teaming him in the overtimes. They literally left two Knicks open on each possession, knowing Anthony wouldn't bother passing the ball. How could they know this? How could George Karl be so reckless with the game on the line? Oh yeah, Anthony played in Denver for 7 years. After going 7-10 in the 4th, Anthony shot only 2-8 in the two overtimes, and Denver won the game.
And before you blame D'Antoni for the 18 to 2 differential in shot attempts between his 2 stars, remember that Anthony did this same thing to George Karl for years. Once Anthony left, Karl now magically coaches a team that passes and shares like crazy. And before Anthony arrived on D'Antoni's doorstep, Mike's teams passed and shared like crazy. Who's the culprit again?
Which brings us back to the theme of this post. Two ex-Suns - Mike D'Antoni and Amare Stoudemire - thought they'd found their panacea. They thought they could step out from Steve Nash's (and Robert Sarver's) shadow and show that the Suns' success was really about them. And that if they could just get that meddling owner out of their hair, life would be grand.
But the problem with real life is that we humans make too many assumptions. We make decisions to fix or eradicate the "bad", assuming that what's "good" will always be there for us because we're the ones who brought the good.
It never crossed Amare's mind that maybe just maybe it could be worse in New York than it was in Phoenix with 3 WCFs in 7 years. He thought he could do better than being the #2 on a contender, living in a city that loved him and playing with a point guard who got him the ball every chance he got.
It never crossed Mike D'Antoni's mind that it could be worse in New York than it was in Phoenix with 2 WCFs in 4 years. He thought he could do better than a roster tailor-made to his coaching, than a PG who knew how to run Mike's offense better than anyone in history, than a front office who wanted to win despite a tight (yet, luxury-tax spending) budget.
Well guess what?
Mike D'Antoni might be out of a job real soon, and his inability to control strong personalities like Carmelo will severely hinder his future head-coaching possibilities. Maybe he actually DID have it pretty good in Phoenix.
Amare Stoudemire has already found himself mentioned in trades, because it's obvious to everyone that Amare + Melo will not bring a championship to New York. And since Amare is dependent on Melo to pass him the ball, Amare is the one who is quickly becoming the more tradeable piece. And with 4 years left on his guaranteed contract, Amare has NO say on where he might be headed.
Sometimes, you get what you asked for. Unfortunately, it's not always what you expected.
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Great post, Alex.
It is to laugh.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
IMO they would have been better had the Knicks not amnestied Billups
Had Amare showed the same amount of effort on the defensive end as he does on he offense they would not have resorted to signing Chandler. In short, the PG position is a lot important to D’Antoni’s system instead of a defensive center.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
I doubt that would help, and neither will Davis.
Shumpert is a willing passer and tries hard to run the offense, but Melo just goes Melodrama every time he gets the ball, he is a bonafide ball stopper. I don’t think any PG could work with Melo, he has shown time and time again playing for the Nuggets, that he thinks he’s the bees knees and will chuck it no matter what.
Good luck to STAT, he’s gonna need it. This Knicks team will have problems making the playoffs if they don’t battle the Carmelanoma.
Baron will help
Melo dominates the ball now because they have no PG. They were pretty good at the end of the last season with Billups running the offense. Without the injuries, they might have given the Celtics a run for their money.
They were not pretty good, they were average at best.
And Davis is not an upgrade from Billups in the slightest.
plus, Melo had Billups in Denver and still dominated the ball.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
It never looked as bad as that NY/DEN game though lol
Their offense was fine with billups last season. I think a healthy baron will yield similar results for NY
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 1:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Well, "never" is probably a stretch haha.
But 95% of the time, it never looked that bad
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 1:57 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
They had the celtics on the ropes in most of those playoff games.
And chandler + baron is an upgrade over billups and Shawne Williams/turiaf/Jared Jeffries.
Everyone wants to hate on them now because they’re struggling a bit. They’ll be fine, if baron is healthy at the end of the season they’ll be In the mix.
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 1:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
i'm not arguing that they were better than the celtics.
im only saying that they were a competitive playoff team at the end of the season
Denver gave him to much money, that was a salary dump they needed to made.
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 9:22 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
But not a trade the Knick needed to make during that time
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
I agreed they were playing great basketball
Imagine the trade did not happen and this was the NYK before the beggining of the season
Felton/Shumpert
Gallinari/Fields
Wilson Chandler/ ???
Amar’E/ ??
Chandler/
And they have like money to add someone, Dalembert and Butler, that is a much better team than today’s Knicks, they just blew their chance, of course that roster is questionable yet a playoff team.
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 10:42 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
NYK gets what they deserve
Honestly I don’t feel anything for Stoud, he decided to go NY and that team would be excellent if they weren’ t such stupid people, Melo was Kobe for them and Melo is a light Kobe when it comes to offensive game, with a horrible shot selection as Kobe and his pupile Brown, but Melo is no Kobe, Melo is a scoring SF and that is it, he doesn’t deserve a max contract because he is not a great a passer nor a great defender, and I am happy that they are suffering and paying for their stupid, STUPID I SAY!, mistake giving up Gallinari/Felton/Chandler/Mozgov and letting go Chancey Billups.
It is not D’antoni’s fault is NYK FO and I want too see them burn, 5 years of suckness for them, a lot of suckness I say.
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 9:17 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I agree with you
And to think that the owner even raised the ticket prices to a whopping 49% to make their loyal fans pay for his mistakes. Somehow I feel better we have Sarver not Dolan.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
Might be cruel but Melo was the biggest cancer Denver had to face
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 9:20 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Sorry if offend someone, it is not a joke 2Nashty honestly Melo is a problem the Knics would have to face every single day, again sorry if i offend you
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 10:08 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Or anyone, i apologize.
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 10:10 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Alex's article summed up into one word:
Karma.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 22, 2012 9:24 AM MST via mobile reply actions
This.
(but I needed more words than that he keep up my quota)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 22, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
We know he loves to ramble too.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Karma? No.
To say that this is Karma is like somebody’s ex saying that their former lover’s failure in a future relationship is Karma for them being dumped. It’s petty.
Hey- Don't Blame ME
by escape goat on Jan 22, 2012 12:12 PM MST up reply actions
I've alway thought melo was way over rated.
no doubt he is remarkably talented, but he’s not in the same echelon as Lebron, wade or kobe as far as Iso scoring and he does little else.
by 2NASHTY on Jan 22, 2012 9:36 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
he is down at the moment but...
he has shown himself to be this guy for some time already. If you had watched the Nuggets carefully over the last couple of years, you would have seen how much worse they were with melo on the floor than otherwise. Its too bad, he is a decent offensive talent, but in the end it looks like he will squander his best years in being uncoachable and having a huge ego.
Which guy is that?
He has averaged 25 Points on 46% shooting, 6 rebounds and 3 assists throughout his career. Haha who else does that? Like 4 other guys in the league lol.
Was he detrimental to the nuggets in the year they went to the conference finals??? I mean really, how do u guys forget about what a player has done so quickly?
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 3:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
the points don't tell the story when the claim is he is a ball hog...
He did play well a few years ago. but is his last 2 years in Denver, after other good pieces arrived or matured..(Lawson, Nene, and whats his name, that crazy brilliant and inconsistent 3 point shooting 2 guard come to mind), he proved to be a problem…a good player, who wasn’t helping his team, by taking a huge salary and not sharing the ball properly or defending well.
I admit that he is a very good scorer, but he is the kind of player I don’t like. Someone who can’t be a cornerstone on a championship team, but is paid like one.
of course he's a ball hog
that doesn’t mean he can’t be the main guy on a championship team. give him the players around him, and he can make a run at a title.
you keep saying he was a problem, he might have been a problem last season when he was demanding to be traded, but when else? i think you guys are being a little too tough on melo…
just like AI
or even ‘starbury’ for that matter, great numbers, but no so great for team bball
melo shoots 46%! lol he's been to the playoffs every year he's been in the league
why all of the hate? haha
and don’t even try to knock AI, that guy is the man!
sure.
he’s shot 47% for his career. he’s fairly efficient. he’s not in iverson or melo’s league though.
just because a player plays on a bad team (like monta) doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. you guys are a bit harsh towards some guys lol
Monta is terrible
And Carmelo isn’t very efficient either.
Carmelo rarely shoots above average TS% (because he takes too many threes) and Monta’s best 2 years were his second and third – since then he has been bad.
Monta also turns the ball over a lot – especially for a two guard – and doesn’t get enough assists to be a one. he’s a classic tiny, averagely efficient scorer without much else to offer.
ya he's terrible...47% shooting...u kidding me?
whats good to you? haha. i wouldn’t build a franchise around monta, of course, but he’s a decent player.
he turns the ball over, but he handles the ball a lot. honestly not everyone can put up amazing numbers.
TS% is only useful when you are looking strictly at 3pt shooters. its kind of a dumb stat.
I don't think you understand TS%
TS% accounts for FTs AND 3s. Soa guy with a great TS% shoots well AND shoots a lot of FTs.
Youa re thinking of eFG% is 2FG% and 3FG% weighted – so 5/11 where it is 4/8 2s and 1/3 3s becomes 50%.
Carmelo shoots about average for both (TS% and eFG%).
honestly not everyone can put up amazing numbers.
In which case he isn’t very good then would be my conclusion, despite, and this is what everyone talks about, despite Carmelo;s bets being better than anyone else’s.
i understand it.
its kind of stupid. especially when evaluating a player strictly off of it lol.
its tough to argue that monta is not a nice player. just because he isn’t a top 10 player doesn’t mean he isn’t good. thats my point.
its kind of stupid. especially when evaluating a player strictly off of it lol.
That’s a weird comment.
TS% and eFG% aren’t stupid at all. They make complete sense, as they help overcome the issue of how to judge different approaches to scoring (a shooter versus Duncan or Shaq) – and TS% accounts for guys that draw fouls and shoot FTs.
It is an especially weird comment when you wrote :“47% shooting” as basically your sole justification.
I’m not saying Monta isn’t good because he shoots a bad TS%. I am saying he isn’t very good because he shoots a poor TS% and DOES NOTHING ELSE at a decent enough clip to cover for that fact. Monta is an inefficient, volume scorer, and those are players better avoided.
Monta is below average in everything he does EXCEPT total points per game. Total points per game is a function of how many shots a player takes more than anything else, and to evaluate a player based on total shots per game is a losing exercise, at least in my view.
well, here are some of the best players in terms of TS%...
juggernauts such as eddy curry, kevin martin, corey maggette, mike miller, kyle korver, leandro barbosa, brad miller, rashard lewis. those are guys in the top 26.
look, its ok to use it to add a little more insight to a debate. but really, its not a stat that should be your main argument lol.
It's not my only argument
1. Tyson Chandler-DAL .697
2. Nene Hilario-DEN .656
3. Arron Afflalo-DEN .620
4. Paul Pierce-BOS .620
5. Chauncey Billups-TOT .617
6. Dwight Howard-ORL .616
7. Ray Allen-BOS .615
8. Richard Jefferson-SAS .612
9. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL .612
10. Kevin Martin-HOU .601
11. Steve Nash-PHO .601
12. Jodie Meeks-PHI .600
13. Jared Dudley-PHO .598
14. James Harden-OKC .598
Landry Fields-NYK .598
16. Danilo Gallinari-TOT .597
17. Stephen Curry-GSW .596
18. LeBron James-MIA .594
19. Marcin Gortat-TOT .594
20. Ty Lawson-DEN
So make your argument – why is Carmelo great?
look at all those average players in there.
if you look at the active leaders for their career, its even worse.
here’s why melo is great: he can score at an efficient clip. no player in the league can defend him. he demands a double team, which frees up his teammates. he averages 6.5 rebounds a game at the SF spot. he can single handedly take over a game. he can lock people down on defense when he needs to.
And I agree with (almost) everything you wrote (ignore efficient because clearly we disagree on that) AND IN ADDITION…
I’d add that Carmelo doesn’t live up to his peak game in, game out. The very best are capable of all the above AND they deliver, week in, week out.
That is what we are disagreeing on – the reality (what a player ACTUALLY PRODUCES) not the potential (what a player is CAPABLE of at their best).
And that – the difference between potential and results – is why a guy like Nash is an all-time great, while a guy like Starburry is in China.
25 pts, 6.5 rebs, and 3 assists on 46% shooting is good any way you look at it.
he’s been doing it his whole career! how is that not consistent?
Don't forget about the other consistant thing about Melo...
Selfish play and lack of passing!
What use is that he commands double teams if he still takes the shot?
In a way he is a way more talented Shannon Brown LOL – his BBall IQ assessing what’s best for the team is crap.
That is why the Knocks are THAT bad this season – he stagnates each offense. He produces, but at the same time kills his team.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:17 AM MST up reply actions
he takes too many shots at times
but he’s been on top offenses for most of his career….. so much for being an offense killer…
You're probably better off employing your tag line.
Logic can’t penetrate an advanced statistical analysis.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 8:52 PM MST up reply actions
Hahah ouch
I’ll make you deal Jim. I’ll change mine to that if you change your’s to:
What I choose to believe I see
That seem fair?
I jest because I care.
I just believe in a more eclectic analysis.
I always consider the opinions of others.
It’s difficult to form an effective rebuttal without doing so. :)
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 10:15 PM MST up reply actions
You formed an effective rebuttal?
Got a link?
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 10:17 PM MST up reply actions
Lockdown defense
Not sure Melo even knows what defense is let alone lockdown defense. Unless you think that is a lock that a shot will go down when melo is on his man.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 23, 2012 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
you're exaggerating
he isn’t the best defender, but he can play the best guy when he needs to.
and it isn’t like offenses go after melo when he’s on defense. he’s not a liability.
This just makes me laugh
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2012 9:55 AM MST reply actions 10 recs
And yeah, he shot it.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I wasn't here during the 7SOL era
But perhaps D’antoni draw the play so he had two open shooters and Melo just wasted it, how was Mike drawing plays?
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 10:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Even worse.
He attempted to shoot it and threw (lost) it into the second row stands behind the Nuggets bench.
borderline adequate
by waxmonkey on Jan 22, 2012 5:43 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
A piture really does tell a thousand words
That picture sums up the game in an image – Knicks Who Live By The Carmelo, Die By The Carmelo.
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
Even Kobe knows better than to shoot when he's got that kind of coverage....
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
I'm surprised there's anyone left on the Orlando bench.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
But he probably made that shot. If you look there is not actually someone in his face.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 23, 2012 2:14 PM MST up reply actions
Actually, he was blocked
Haha that's great
Watch Ariza throw his hands up after the play and Lamar clap at Kobe like “wtf!”.
BAMF goes HAM.
Oh man, that is the WORST play
I count, THREE guys WIDE open. One in each corner, one top of the key.
Hilarious how the defence was drawn up. Put Hedo on Kobe, so he can’t shoot a long three, and then send EVERYONE at Kobe – because you know he ain’t passing. Reddick charges him, and then EVERYONE taller than 6’4" suffocates Kobe.
GREAT block by Hedo – absolutely BRILLIANT play by the man that got us Gortat.
Melo after the game
had some interesting comments on all this:
“Maybe I need to not take so many shots.”
“Maybe I should take the blame for the games weve been losing, offensive struggles. Coach does run the offense through me. So Ill take it. Ill take that blame.”
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
Maybe?
That is one mature statement coming from Melo
roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!
by Lino Canaan on Jan 22, 2012 10:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
First step to changing is admitting there's a problem
Amirite? Carmelo is an interesting character haha.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
You nailed it, Alex.
Rec’d.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
I love it
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
Preach.
Great piece.
I like Amare but I’m really enjoying this Knicks disaster.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 22, 2012 11:06 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Bevause its easy to hate the knicks
I disliked them even before Amare. They think they’re entitled to everything. They are already making plan for when nash gets there. They assume he’s asshole awhile like amare and will just dip. there old gm built that team from scrath and did a great job minus the eddy curry mess. Then in a flash it was all lost with the melo deal. The fans asked for it and now they are paying
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 3:16 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Seems a bit irreverant to me..
The NYK fans somewhat think they are entitled to stuff..The same way the Lakers fans and Miami fans are now…but remember the Knicks have suffered miserbly for almost a decade….
All I’m saying is that we have to be carefule with arbitrary statements such as this..A lot of hate was generated against the suns during the 7SOL era and none of it was warranted…we don’t want to dish out the same irresonsibly…
Now the Lakers on the other hand…
Let's do this...!
To your credit
Ill admit that tge knicks do not warrant the same animosities that laker heat and even celt fans deserve. I dont so much dislike the fans as I do the organization if that makes sense. Or for that matter the city and how it rrlates to bball. In fact I have a disdain for big markets alltogether. just because your city is huge does not mean you deserve rings. When they got melo and amare everyone was yelling championships. Even magic johnson said NYK were going to win now. Since then hes backed off. im off topic but anyways yea I can understand where you come from friend.
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 6:00 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Because Amare wanted to be the man.
He thought that he could be the # 1 guy in NY without Steve Nash. Then he witnessed Dwyane Wade, LeBronchitis, and “The Other Guy” create a super trio. So he thought, “Hmmmm… Having Carmelo here would be cool too. We’ll become instant contenders and I get to play with my friend!”
Now he’s the 2nd option on the Knicks and he’s getting far less touches than when he was here in Phoenix. If you think about it, he was the #1 option here. Steve Nash looked for him on every possession and Amare was a 25+ PPG man here. Steve and Amare were the most unstoppable PG-PF combination since Stockton and Malone, but Amare’s ego fucked all that up.
After just finishing an impressive run to the WCF, he just ups and leaves to become the “King of New York”. He’s certainly the King of something, but it’s not NY. I’m pretty sure D’Antoni will be gone at the end of this season if they can’t get out of the first round or even make the playoffs.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 22, 2012 10:56 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
ugh
enough about his ego…he wanted the extra $20+million!
Thanks for clearing that up, Amare.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 23, 2012 2:37 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
It's sad
Coach D left because he didn’t want to play more than 8 guys, put a little more focus on defense and play rookies. It really wasn’t that big of a deal either. I don’t think that’s a lot or too much to ask for. I suppose it was for Coach D, but I guess he was just too stubborn…
It’s his biggest flaw. It’s what kept him from being a great coach and he had that potential too. Of course he had Steve Nash, but he was still a very good offensive coach, best in the league. His system just requires a good PG or preferably a great PG like Coach Jackson’s system requires a great SG. Nothing wrong with that.
People in New York are giving the guy some unfair blame, but what did they expect? Don’t they know his system can’t be successful without a star PG?
I don’t know how Coach D felt about the Melo trade, but that was a bad trade all around. Felton was putting up all-star stats and Gallo and Chandler were nice players despite their inconsistency. That team was having fun too. When Melo came, the Knicks just haven’t looked like they’ve had fun. All that team needed was a big-man. All they had to do was just be patient and wait till the off-season to get one and they’d be a contender. Then when they did make the trade for Melo, they traded Billups, so they could sign Chandler which wasn’t a bad signing, but at the expense of their only PG? What has their FO been thinking? They’ve screwed up twice now. They could have been contending this season.
Don't trade Dudley!
I was at the suns game,
and after the knicks loss all the fans funneling out down the stairs were chanting “fire D’antoni”
I just hope that nash realizes this and doesn’t also think ny is the promised land.
NYC Suns Fan!!!
if nash goes there, they'll be a top contender for sure
I think a PG that dominates the ball is what NY needs. Melo’s ability to iso can be their changeup on offense, instead of their bread and butter.
D'Antoni gets a poor rap for that
But seriously, he never had anyone who could play. After KT went down and was traded, James Jones was our best 8th man.
No one that we drafted or signed has ever played in the NBA again – not Tucker, not DJ Strawberry, heck not Marcus Banks.
D’Antoni will play the best players, see Fields, Landry and Walker, Bill. In Phoenix, he just never had another guy.
ha ha ha ha
i saw the game and thought Amare u went to NYK to become BATMAN and they traded your alfreds and got yourself a ROBIN in Carmelo but when you look in the mirror AMARE you are the ROBIN and CARMELO is the BATMAN.
"SIR ALEX FERGUSON" Greatest Manager of all time
oh man.
Melo has a couple of bad games and everyone wants to turn on him haha. Melo is a top 8 player in the game no doubt, everyone needs to calm down.
D’Antoni needs to go, they might get rid of him this season. I think they’ll be fine with a real coach and Baron at the point.
The biggest issue for the Knicks is the health of Amare. He doesn’t look the same this season, he’s lost a lot of explosiveness. I think they’ll be fine though. Even if they make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, they’ll be a tough out.
Top 8 player?
No no no.
Top 20? Sure.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
you're out of your mind...
name seven players that are better than him…..lol
Off the top of my head..
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
BAMF goes HAM.
lol ok
Chris Paul isn’t better than Melo. He’s only been on one 50 win team, and his stats have been declining. CP3 is great, but most teams rather have melo(it would depend on what type of team you already have).
Dirk is really similar to melo actually, you can make arguments for both in terms of who is better. KD is similar as well.
so i would say 5 guys are definitely better than him, with a couple other guys that you can make arguments for and against.
All accept lebron
Although he does beat melo in everyother way
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 6:05 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
lebron plays too much team basketball
melo could teach him a thing or two…
I doubt it
with all his NBA Finals experience not sure anyone would listen :)
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:21 AM MST up reply actions
LeBron needs to be willing to take big shots.
His lack of a killer instinct is what separates him from being a true legend. No doubt LeBron’s a really damn good basketball player and probably the best athlete to ever play the game, but he shies away from those big moments. Whereas guys like Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Melo are all willing to take the big shots.
However, in Melo’s case, he needs to learn when to stop shooting and just work to set up his teammates. If Kobe could average 5+ assists per game back when he had Smush Parker and Kwame Brown on his team, I’m pretty sure Melo could average 5+ APG with the Knicks…
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Melo was on three 50 win teams and he can be credited for maybe 10 (or however many hero ball buzzer beaters he hit) of those 150+ wins
Melo got really lucky as far as teammates go.
First season in he already had Andre Miller, Kenyon, Nene and Camby. Then they hired Karl and later landed AI who was still going nuts at 31 and 32 averaging something like 25 and 7?! Camby playing like he was 23 and not 33 that one season? Then they landed Billups to replace AI.
That’s another thing, he had a damn good coach in Karl (case in point, Denver after he was traded). He sucks for not putting them over the top and winning a championship, he really does, they had the coach, the starting 5 (in various inclinations), the 6th man in J.R, and good role players every year since ‘06. But they never made it outside the 1st round save for that one year. And, surprisingly, that was Melo’s worst year in Denver, he upped the ante for the playoffs of course, but after two games vs Lakers just disappeared.
If he was as good as advertised, he would’ve at least gotten them to the Finals. Lebron did it with Mo Williams, surely the great Melanoma could do when he had much, much better supporting cast.
lebron didn't get to the finals with mo williams.
he got there with an even worse wingman (larry hughes? big Z? lol). But getting to the finals in the east was wayyyy easier back then, especially compared to how tough the west was.
sure they had good teams in denver, but other teams were just as good. most of the teams they lost to in the playoffs went on to do serious damage in the playoffs (lakers, spurs).
and seriously? 10 wins? haha whatever man
Melo isn't worth much
He’s just doesn’t produce that much more than an average 3 would. That is why Denver has been so good without him (50 wins last year, and 12-5 so far this year).
oh man.
see, here’s whats wrong with your thinking. you don’t understand that just because someone can average 13 points per game on 50% shooting with 0 turnovers, doesn’t mean they can produce double that with more touches/minutes. when guys have to do more, their efficiency goes down.
denver has been good without melo because they got a lot for him lol. not too mention finally getting rid of melo probably took a lot of weight off their shoulders.
Oh man
You don’t seem to understand that the VERY BEST players, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Lebron, all do BOTH – shoot a lot very efficiently.
The thing with Carmelo is that he doesn’t shoot well. The reason is not because MElo isn’t CAPABLE of doing being a great offensive player, but because he consistently chooses to take bad shots.
As a simple, easy to justify argument, carmelo has shot 1516 3s and made just .321 for his career – that is a BAD shot for Carmelo to take.
That isn’t the only bad shot Melo takes – have a look at http://www.nba.com/statscube/player.html#Carmelo-Anthony|2546;year=201112;season=r and think of all the contested 18-22 footers Melo takes – but it is one very good example.
Try this link
http://on.nba.com/AiZ6ap instead. Shows Melo’s shot chart
melo shoots 46%.
he only takes one more 3pt shot per game than jordan did.
46% is good. haha especially when you’re scoring 25 a game.
he isn’t in Jordan’s league, obviously. but not many people are lol.
Says who?
3/7 the players that scored 25PPg last year shot over .500 – Lebron, Wade and Amar’e.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_leaders.html – TS% is a whose who of stars like Dirk, Nash and Ray Allen.
only 3 players...see what i mean???
melo shot better than kobe and d rose. haha idk where you are going with this.
and i addressed your TS% thing in an above comment…
Hold on
3 out of 7 AND the eFG% for each is what?
The only way to argue 46% is GOOD is to argue that either:
1) the player shot 3s A LOT AND really well (like a Ray Allen).
2) The player shot a lot of FTs and a good, wait for it, TS% or
3) The player passes really well.
If the argument was made that Carmelo shoots too much, Id agree, but I’d add that means Carmelo needs to shoot LESS, not that he gets a free pass.
stats
don’t tell the whole story.
melo shoots better than kobe, and he has shot better than derrick rose the last two seasons.
of course he could, and should, shoot less. but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a great, great player.
Who said stats tell the whole story?
Ironically, you are a fan of quoting a few when it agrees with you!
of course he could, and should, shoot less. but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a great, great player.
Actually, that is EXACTLY what it means. A “great, great player” is BOTH efficient AND scores a lot. I thought I had shown that?
Chris Paul is a star
NOLA last year were 46-36 – better than us – and with the smae team – CP3 and with Eric Gordon and Kaman, they are 3-13.
I can;t see CP3s stats declining per 48 and man, his TS% and shooting in general are WAY up. I can’t believe LAC got him – the perfect complimentary star.
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
To be quite honest... I'd take Gerald Wallace over Carmelo Anthony any day of the week.
He’s a better all-around player than Melo is and one of the hardest working players in the league.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
oh. my. god.
now things are getting ridiculous.
If im building a TEAM
Id take wallace too. You cant win a ring with melo because you cant build eith him or around him. And wallace to the lakers and their back to contending. And him to the spurs….thats even scarrier. Now imagine if new york doesnt make the melo trade and instead sacrafice less to get wallace and still get chandler because theyll have even more cap and wont have to amnesty billups…thats a nightmare
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 3:34 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
good thing you aren't a GM
he’s played on horrible teams his whole career, except last season. you put melo on those teams, and they make the playoffs as a 3-6 seed every season.
really, this conversation is so ridiculous
Melo has been on great teams and MISSED the playoffs
Including one with Iverson.
No they ain't
MELO is an astouding ISO player, great in 1-on-1 situations, good shooter BUT:
- he simply cannot carry a team to greatness because he doesn’t make his teammates better. It’s almost as if he sucks out the air out of them come 4th Q.
There was a lot of good players in the NBA who never became all-time greats because they couldn’t fit in into any championship worthy team during their career. Malo might be one of them – his ego is just to big for him to adjust his game to make the team better…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:29 AM MST up reply actions
he's never missed the playoffs.
he hasn’t had the help he needs to win a title. its not all on him. how was he supposed to take on juggernauts like the spurs and lakers with very little help?
What do you consider little help?
JR/ Kenyon/ Billups/ Iverson/ Nene… I could keep it up you know? How was Denver from three years ago worse than last year’s Mavs?
He’s had plenty of help – he just cannot carry/inspire his team to greatness like Mamba or Dirk.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:25 PM MST up reply actions
ugh, please don't call kobe "mamba"
Melo, Billups, JR, K-mart, Nene, birdman, kleiza, dahntay jones
vs.
dirk, terry, kidd, marion, chandler, barea, stevenson, haywood.
its pretty even, but the one place that the mavs had a distinct advantage was at the center position. they had a top 3 defensive center in Chandler, and another legit C Haywood coming off the bench. thats how they beat the lakers. idk about dirk “inspiring” anyone lol
that nuggets team went all the way to the conference finals, but just lost a close series to a GREAT laker team. can you knock melo for losing to that stacked team?
He hasn't missed the playoffs at all actually
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Ok look
KD does most of what he does in the flow of the offense, which is a huge difference between him and Melo.
Dirk iso’s but by no means is a ball stopper. Plus, if you shoot 50+ percent from the field, 40% from three and over 90% from the field, who can blame you.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 23, 2012 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
melo was part of the #1 and #2 ranked offenses last season.
he must’ve not been going against the flow too much….
I'd throw in
Kevin Love
Deron Williams
Blake Griffin
Steve Nash (oh yes)
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 23, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
k-love? seriously?
melo shoots a better percentage than him, and you say melo is bad! so k-love must be even worse.
deron williams isn’t better than melo (although IMO he’s the best PG in the league). you always take an elite SF/SG over an elite PG.
how is BG better? and i’ll ignore the fact that you mention stevie…
Kevin Love is better because
he doesn’t need the ball in his hands all the time to be efficient. He is the best natural rebounder in the game (reminds me of Barkley) and he makes it possible to build around him with other pieces.
why do you think Amare looks so bad this year?
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:28 PM MST up reply actions
well, for one thing he doesn't look healthy.
and he is also settling for jumpshots (i assume this is because something is not right).
Love still shoots a worse FG%. and he can’t create his own shot.
That is a rather ironic argument
So shooting percentage isn’t a good measure – that is the central thesis of this thread from you – but now, suddenly, it is relevant? So when it agrees with you it makes sense, when it doesn’t it can be disregarded?
Love shoots a lot of threes, and hits .400 – that covers up a low shooting percentage.
haha where did i say FG% is not a good measure?
i said TS% and eFG% are not always a good measure to use.
you don’t think 46% shooting is good, thats where we differ in opinion. lol and i know i’m right in saying 46% shooting is GOOD, especially for a guy taking as many shots as melo.
if u think love is better than melo, you’re crazy. he puts up crazy stats on a crappy team (while shooting a measly 43%)….big deal..
Now you've gone too far.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
I don't think they "got what they deserved"
and I disagree on a couple things. I don’t think either Amare or D’antonti thought they had found their “panacea” with the Carmelo acquisition. They realized that he would be a ball-stopper, but the FO and the City pushed for it, and they wound up with what they got. And to say that Phoenix was a city that loved either of them is inaccurate. Both of them were heavily criticized here. They didn’t get exactly what they wanted. They got fucked.
Hey- Don't Blame ME
PHX loved amare
he was the man! we all wanted him to stay
there were plenty of people who didn't think he was worth a max contract
Hey- Don't Blame ME
by escape goat on Jan 22, 2012 12:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
everyone agreed he was worth the max
just not for 5 years.
Does the definition of Maximum escape you>
Hey- Don't Blame ME
by escape goat on Jan 22, 2012 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive
A person can have loved Amare as a Sun but didn’t think he was worth the max length guaranteed contract, because of health concerns.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 22, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I am one of those people
You don’t give a guy with uninsured knees 5 years of guaranteed money after he has had a micro fracture surgery and our medical staff tells our organization they should not invest in 5 years of Amar’e. Amar’e was an amazing player and I miss him on our team for many reasons, but I can see what the FO was thinking.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
My thoughts exactly.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 22, 2012 2:47 PM MST up reply actions
I might have
If the deal was front loaded. Then we could trade him after we won a championship. But thats a stretch. Such a risk especially when the best medical staff in the nba says so. Year 2 and Amare is already showing signs of loss but I beleive his down numbers are more of a result of melo and a lack of a point guard. I just wish hed have taken our deal. it would be in new yorks interest though to trade melo to new jersey for dwill and another role guy. At least amare can play team ball
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 22, 2012 3:27 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I might have if the deal was front loaded.
not possible, with the CBA, when the first year is already at the max.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Jan 22, 2012 7:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhh, dking, how I''ve missed this.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
Heat medical staff felt the same way
and advised against an 08 draft deal with Phoenix
So the Knicks took that risk. It could get worse if Wilson Chandler plays well in his return from China. For those still bitter over Sarver not offering the 5th year: when do you expect the Knicks to win a playoff game with Amare?
by ninecharacters on Jan 23, 2012 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
But Amare didn't love Phoenix.
and Phoenix had been trying to get rid of Amare since 2007.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Well, both of those things aren't true
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 1:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
But there are,
If Amare cared about winning he would have stayed here, but he wanted to be a big shot in New York and a superstar, and yes the Suns have been trying to trade Amare since 2007-08 season, remember the KG for Amare trade? Then it was Amare to the Hawks, then to Chicago, then to Washington, then to Miami, then to Minnesota, then to Cleveland, it was never ending.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
but there’s a difference between “wiliing to trade” and “trying to trade”, don’t you think?
“trying to trade” implies that the Suns did not like Amare, which is certainly not true. They gave him 2 max contract offers, one of which he accepted. The other he did not. It was not fully guaranteed, and Amare wanted it all guaranteed.
“willing to trade” implies that the Suns had to try to cover their bases, and didn’t want to lose Amare for nothing, which they ultimately did.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
This is an interesting question
I think that Alex’s point is a little too strong, but I understand the sentiment. and as usual the escape goat has shown an insightful light on these questions.
To me its complicated and a bit tragic…Nobody, except Nash, was willing to sacrifice their egos along the way to do the smart thing for themselves or the team (think Dantoni, JJ, Matrix and Stat) or for this fabulous team oriented offensive juggernaut that was the suns, but at the same time it is clear that Sarver at least seems to have been a VERY meddlesome owner who didn’t seem to have the cajones to really manage this situation.
So in the end the horror show of the post Amare situation, (the horrendous handling of the Kerr situation, followed by the unprecedented franchise destroying moves made by Sarver at that time) also vindicated Amare, JJ, and Dantoni to some extent, as Sarver proved himself to be a fatally flawed owner possessing extremely bad judgement. The destruction of this team with bad moves in the summer of 2010 (that have set of a flurry of others moves required to recover from this almost fatal attack) will go done in history as one of the swiftest dismantaling of a fabulous franchise, and a team that was simply a treasure to watch. In this light who can blame guys for wanting to flee this organization?
So I see it from both sides. Amare ought to have taken the suns more seriously but it is true that he was a bit taken for granted. However, really until his last half year here, he had not proven himself to have any skill at all in creating his own shot, and only in his last 3 months here did that seem to come. So much of the criticism was well placed.
As for Dantoni, yes he ought to have swallowed his pride and worked with Kerr, who actually did seem to have his best interests in mind and did seem to understand what was needed ultimately. On the other hand, the tragic Terry Porter affair shows that perhaps Kerr, needed to see in greater detail just how indelibly the vision of Dantoni had been etched on this franchise, and how much of a mistake it would be to throw out the baby with the bath water.
In the end, I do think its a bit hard to ascribe fault precisely here. Again it seems, that aside from Nash, no one was capable of putting their egos aside, and that this was the real source of the problems here.
by HarvMel on Jan 22, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
In the end, I do think its a bit hard to ascribe fault precisely here.
I am ascribing no fault here. I am simply pointing out that sometimes you get what you asked for, and it isn’t always what you MEANT to ask for.
This hilarious movie plays this out better than I can possibly describe in word: Bedazzled, with Brendan Fraser and Liz Hurley.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
yup..
I don’t think you were ascribing fault. I actually have more or less the same feeling as you, but also need to say that given the reality of living with Sarver, I can understand the desire of some to flee. I also like to see the knicks lose and how bad this has turned out, though now that it is going so bad, I do feel very badly for STAT and Dantoni.
Bedazzled does sort of capture it…some day you ought to see the original with Dudley Moore..very funny as well and very well made movie.
By the way, the biggest ego of all of course is Melo…heres what really gets me. He obviously could have just waited for the off season. Someone like Nash would have done that, as otherwise you would be forcing your new team to gut itself to get you…really doesn’t make much sense if you actually think it through..
but no not in this age of supreme selfishness. To Melo, the importance of getting his max deal done under the old CBA, by far outweighed the importance of actually playing on a good team…can you imagine, Melo +Stat, Felton, Gallinari, wilson and Tyson Chandler?? Don’t know if they could have worked that out under the cap, but that is sure one heck of a lineup..
Would you have passed up that extra cash?
I seriously doubt it. I dont think Nash would either
by forget on Jan 22, 2012 3:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Winners don't force a trade that guts the team..
period. he would have been very well paid in any event..Winners say I can take 13 mill instead of 16 mill so long as I can substantially increase my chances of winning, and play in the center of the universe, where my off court money will more than make up for what I lost in salary.
and yes Nash would have passed it up, for sure
he has consistently made basketball decisions that are ok for him, but also really good for his team. he is doing that right now.
........nash could've stayed in dallas
from his wikipedia page:
“Cuban wanted to build his franchise around the younger Nowitzki and did not want to risk signing the 30-year-old Nash to a long-term deal, and offered Nash a four-year deal worth about $9 million annually, with a fifth year partially guaranteed. The Phoenix Suns on the other hand offered the point guard a six-year, $63 million contract. Nash was reluctant to leave Dallas and returned to Cuban to see if he would match the deal; Cuban did not, and Nash signed for the Suns for the 2004–05 season. "
lol see? he wasn’t so concerned with winning then, was he?
Plus we were coming off a 29 win season.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
look he is loyal..
and he loved playing with Notwitski, but he was dissed and pissed off about that. In the end he took almost the same money in Phoenix.
he cares more about team than almost anyone I can think of in pro sports.
Is he a saint? no. Anybody wants to be better paid if that is the only issue.
But there is a HUGE difference between negotiating your next contract vs. forcing a trade, when the new team has already made it clear that the guy would be number one priority in the off season. In Nash’s case he made a very good move as he went to a team that was just as good (though it didn’t seem to be at the time), that WAS NOT RENDERED COMPLETELY F’ED by the very deal by which he was signed. And he ended up in a situation that more or less completely transformed the NBA, so I see a little difference between signing a deal that results in a 33 game win improvement vs. killing the team you are signing with, lol.
I compare the Melo move to my other favorite bad ego, poor judgement move when Stephon Marbury more or less forced himself out of the best situation he was ever going to have in Minny with Garnett, to be the “man” somewhere else.
did melo force the knicks to give up those guys?
they could’ve waited until the offseason. it would have been a risk, so they pulled the trigger on that deal.
well if he didn't force the deal I see that..
but from all accounts he did.
Look, btw, I don’t hate Melo. But the suns took a lot of S@@ for many years for being who they were, and they were great, but through a number of bad moves and bad luck, they never translated that into a championship. And Nyer’s were some of the loudest sqwakers about how the “system” would never work.
So to sit here and watch that team with the transported Suns, start to build a suns light team than blow it up, by signing kind of the anti-sun in Melo, and for them to now be crying for Nash….well its just kind of odd. I don’t hate the Knicks, but it is “informative” to see what is happening to them.
i just think everyone needs to give the knicks some time
let baron get healthy, let them learn to play with each other, and then lets see how they do in the postseason.
i know one thing, you don’t want to meet baron/melo/stat/chandler in the postseason.
Why?
NY’s bench sucks, Davis is washed up and STAT and Melo are a bad fit.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Davis is washed up?
13 pts and 7 assists with the crappy clippers and cavs doesn’t sound that bad to me. You don’t think he could do ok passing the ball to STAT and melo??
if baron can come back and start, they could have shump, douglas, walker, harrellson, and jeffries off the bench, that isn’t that terrible. Shumpert is really good, he would be one of the best 6th men in the league
So make a prediction
When Davis returns, what are you predicting they will finish?
around 37-29
and they’ll be ready to make some noise in the playoffs.
Just to be clear
You are predicting NYK will go 37-29. NYK are currently 6-10. So 31-19 from now on, no matter when Davis gets back? Or do you want to qualify that better?
yep. they said baron would start practicing in 2 weeks
so if he plays shortly after that, i’d say he’d miss 12-14 more games. i’m betting that they’ll go .500 in those. When baron comes back, they’ll go like 25-13 the rest of the way, maybe a little worse.
So you're saying
Baron Davis is the difference between a .658 record (25-13) and a .500 record? Wow.
BAMF goes HAM.
BRAVO! Well played good sir
I love when people have the guts to put their name to an actual prediction. BRAVO!
Lets make this easy on you – given the courage here.
The over under is:
1) .500 until Baron returns from today +
2) .650 of the remaining games once Baron return.
I’ll check back in a few weeks and see how you are going.
i'll stick to my prediction
melo+stat+baron+chandler are as good as anyone in the east.
I'll bet you an apology at the end of the season
that the Knicks won’t have a .658 record to end the season once Baron starts playing.
BAMF goes HAM.
I'll get in on that as well
And I’ll give you a .650 target :P
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 10:14 PM MST up reply actions
Ill take the under fot both
Tgeykk suvk more as the sched gets harder play the time it will take for barron to get in the flow. Knicks font even make the playoffs
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 2:13 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Your right
A good PG, but is Baron a good PG anymore?
Although, it still won’t be pretty. Melo has still got to learn how to play within the system instead of stopping the system.
Don't trade Dudley!
he is
c’mon now. this is Baron we are talking about!
Mind = mother fucking blown.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 23, 2012 8:46 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
and as usual the escape goat has shown an insightful light on these questions
Well this statement completely ruins the validity of your argument. :)
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
The bright side for them is...
They have someone that keeps shooting and actually making most of them until recently. Us on the other hand…
I’d be more than happy to have Carmelo…they can have Shannon Brown. He’ll probably pass the ball once or twice.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
by modernage13 on Jan 22, 2012 12:17 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Hurray for everyone being worse off!
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 22, 2012 12:37 PM MST reply actions 7 recs
Except for the Nuggets. They're the winners here.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 22, 2012 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
oh was this about the Nuggets at all?
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 22, 2012 4:24 PM MST up reply actions
yup
many had predicted Nash and Stat would both lose…but the degree of suckitude on both sides has far exceeded expectations. Here the advent of extremely bad FO moves after Stat left, by both sides, has made a bad and tragic situation much worse.
some more grist for the mill..
from a short SB article from Prade:
At one point, an Eastern Conference team had a deal in place to acquire Stoudemire from the Suns for a top-five pick, and the trade was rejected by the team’s medical staff because Stoudemire “might not be playing in five years,” an official from that team said. That was four years ago.
talk amongst yourselves..
yes. It was Miami, and the consensus #2 pick was Beasley. Glad the Suns passed.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Better than the TPE that we used on Frye, Warrick and Chilly.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
(considers this response with skepticism, but hating to endorse either option as “better” than the other)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Beasley flamed out as a #2 option to Dwyane Wade, including rampant drug use and threats of suicide, and was eventually given away to Minnesota for a future second ROUND pick. What makes anyone think he would have flourished in Phoenix?
I’m thinking Warrick and Chilly were about a wash.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
No, I think both options are terrible.
But this one is “better” than the TPE imo. Beasley could have been more productive with Nash and Hill here plus, who says the Suns would have used the pick? It could have been traded for an all-star player.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
knowing the Suns, that's probably what we would have done, traded it as soon as we got it
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 22, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
Plus, what the crap was all our hype about wanting to trade one of these scrubs for Beasley? I’m pretty sure the majority of us were in line with that.
Now, both options are terrible, but the option where were paying 10 mil to guys who aren’t even playing is worse.
Don't trade Dudley!
I don’t see how you can say Beasley would have been better with Nash and Hill. He had ring-winning Wade, and Riley and a great, controlled system. If he can’t rein it in for them, how could he have done so with the Suns? I just don’t see it.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I dont think this is really fair.
if you wanna say it more accurately, “Melo got exactly what he wanted by forcing a trade to a team for all its secondary parts and so much money that it hampers the teams ability to improve.”
I think Mike D and STAT wanted what we had before the trade. As did most of us knick fans when we signed both these guys.
And to the person who hopes we have bad teams for the next 5 years… WTF dude. We have dealt with a lot of bad basketball in NYC. More then any fans deserve. And I could have told you back when you guys had Mike D and STAT that Dolan is the worst owner in sports. You dont even realize that aside from consistantly mucking up the knicks, he is also the front man for an aweful blues band, he owns the arena that is way overpriced in every way, he owns the cable channel that broadcasts the game and it is really a poor network, he owns cablevision which covers the TV and Internet for a majority of the area… and it sucks and is overpriced.
Mike D and STAT are not getting what they deserve, and while I wont say that us NY fans deserve a chip or anything (no fan deserves that… or maybe every fan does)… all we really want these days is a team that is watchable. That is it.
It sucks that we somehow have found ourselves the laughingstock of the NBA again. After years of gutting cap space, in one year time we put ourselves right back where we were.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Jan 22, 2012 2:54 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
oh
and dolan is a major reason we didnt win the Olympics in NYC because of his pushing the stadium out of Manhattan and into Queens.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Dude, I feel for you totally.
I didn’t say this very well in the article, which is my fault, but my point was supposed to be that the grass is not always greener in the other yard. They both went to a team with nothing else, and needing a lot more pieces still. You never know what those other pieces will be, or how they will fit together. Whereas, with the Suns they knew what they had.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I like what you guys had before the trade to
All that team needed was a big-man to help take some pressure off of Amar’e. They have that big-man now, but without a good PG, it’s not really helping.
Don't trade Dudley!
I hope NY and Brooklyn have crap teams for the rest of my life
Boohoohoo the owner isn’t perfect. Worst in all of sports? Hardly. He’s not even the worst in the NBA. The biggest players still want to play in NY despite having awful teams. Dolan tried to replicate Miami and it didn’t work. Scrap the team and start again. There’s a never ending revenue stream. What would cripple an average team for 5 years is just a do-over in NY.
The Knicks have tried to buy a championship and it hasn’t worked. Good thing too because the NBA already has too little parity.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 22, 2012 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
I have mixed feelings on this one...
Mike’ D kinda ran himself out of PHX…His resistance to change kinda wore on everyone. Amare always seemed kinda not appreciated by a lot of the Suns fans..Not so much in not giving him a max contract, but in the fact that the emphasis was always on his shortcomings and not on his strengths…In my mind he just wanted to give himself a max deal and a fresh start after his time in PHX—who knows..?
I just know that he got himself into is a less than ideal situation in NY…Him and Melo on the same front line will never work..One of them has to go and it’ll probably be STAT..If he somehow ends up back here, I’ll accept him back with open arms…..If he gets on s team with strong point guard play, I fully expect him to return to his standard level of productivity.
To be honest, I don’t begrudge anyone for taking more money in a job opportunity. some players operate under the assumption that their next payday may be their last (injuries, etc….Not the way I operate but I don’t hold it against those that do.. If someone is willing to give you max dollars based off your productivity, so be it..As a fan you have realize, that while his productivity over the years wasn’t legendary, but it was extremely effective…I wish most players in the Suns uniforms that we’d thought would work out throughout the years would have been as effective…We’d have a lot more championships to be sure..
I really think we out to stop harping on him..he’s gone so let’s let it go…He isn’t the first player to take the money and run and he won’t be the last…Let’s focus on what we have here..
Let’s Go Suns….!
Let's do this...!
Amar'e looks old
He’s shooting http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html .413 and he has never been much of a rebounder or defender. He has no lift on his jumper, meanders up and down court like someone whose knees are gone, and looked passive the part I watched (from 3qtr time).
And Carmelo is worse – he’s shooting http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html .404. That is a team in deep crisis, that is putting itself on the back of a player whose reputation has always far exceeded his talents.
Still, I don’t want to gloat, because all teams have their crosses to bear, from us letting Amar’e go (wrong year one, right every other year) to NYK whiffing on Lebron and ending up with Amar’e and Carmelo (eek).
he does look really old.
he’s almost unrecognizable out there. What happened to the power? the explosiveness?
and i don’t understand all of this melo hate. he’s averaged 26-6-3 over his career. thats pretty damn good, especially since he’s shot 46% for his career. the only thing you can argue about him is that he never has reached his potential. He could have been the second most dominant player in the league, behind only lebron.
STAT looks a little out of shape to me...
A little heavier and slower to be sure…Let’s reexamine this at the break to see if he’s gfgot his condition down by there…
Let's do this...!
Melo has never been great
Because basketball is a sport not just about maximum potential, e.g. the best thing a player can do, but about the average performance a player provides.
Here is how Carmelo compares to an average SF per 48 and you can see that Anthony most years turns the ball over more often than average (his A/TO ratio is always and shoots about an average TS% and eFG%, e.g. one that accounts for 3FG%.
At his best, Carmelo is absolutely brilliant. No one can score in more ways that Carmelo. Unfortunately, he shouldn’t shoot threes but does, regularly throws up contested 18 footers and ruins his best with a lot of ordinary play, whilst not
Compare Carmelo to the best and you can see how King James is better at pretty much everything, every year. Sort by any (positive) column, and Carmelo is rarely in the top 3.
im not saying he's #2, not at all lol
im just saying that there is only one other player with his blend of size, athleticism, and skill.
idk how you can say he isn’t great. Is being a top 8-10 player not good enough? lol. a couple years ago you could say he was top 5.
Carmelo isn't in the top 10
He’s just not that good. He doesn’t do anything at a high level consistently, and he makes a lot of dumb decisions. That is the difference between a guy like Jordan, who shot brilliantly his whole career, http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html sort by TS% and Jordan was brilliant.
:Do the same for Carmelo":http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html and he;s nowhere close.
you're comparing him to two of the best of all time (MJ, LJ)!
haha of course he doesn’t stack up.
he scores at a high level consistently…lol
But NOT efficiently
We’re are going around in circles, but Melo isn’t great.
Melo is good, average to slightly above, but at his bets excellent. Game in, game out is where Melo struggles, as his terrible shot selection leads to inconsistent results, and turns the ball over without creating shots for others so can;t cover for it.
There are about 450 players to use as a sample.
Melo is good, average to slightly above
So 225 would be average. Where do you put Melo? About 200th best? 175th?
Saying he’s worse than top 30 seems like you’re making an argument that you don’t know much about basketball….
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 8:50 PM MST up reply actions
Ask the question in a way I can answer it
Because with Melo, it is complicated. Some examples:
1) In raw talent, how good is Carmelo? Answer: top 10, probably more like 3 or four (Lebron as a raw athlete is better, and D12 is probably better as a 7’0" athlete).
2) In production, in terms of what Carmelo produces game in, game out, how good is he? Answer: About average through his career, a bit above average last year.
3) Where does Carmelo rate in terms of value (Production divided by Salary)? In a really bad position.
4) How good is he on last second shots? One of the best all-time.
5) Can you build around Melo as a max player, due to make $20+ million? Answer: no, I don’t believe so.
Look, there is NO DOUBT that AT HIS BEST, Carmelo is a fantastic natural talent. He can do everything (except shoot threes) and he is big for his position.
But does he produce? Game in game out, 4 quarters and 40 minutes a night, does Carmelo give a team an edge?
I dunno who else watched the Denver game but it serves as a classic illustration of Carmelo – both good and bad.
10-30 FG% (.300), 1-7 from 3 (WTF Carmelo?), 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 PFs, 1 steal, 6 TOs (6!!!!) and 25 points in 45:02 with a game tying 18 footer in regulation, and a missed, 3 vs Melo, 22 footer in overtime.
Carmelo is both amazing and terrible (six TOs and 7 3s?).
I can tell you, Melo lost them (with poor shooting in the 1st thrree quarters), then saved them (18 footer) and then lost them (overtime play) that game. It was an amazing display of what the guy is capable of, both good and bad (the game tying jumper was amazing).
you are blinded by advanced stats.
they are a useful tool, for sure, but going on what you see is a much better way to evaluate players, IMO.
I'm not
Far from it. I think I can safely say I’ve watched more games than just about anyone – including this specific game. One of the joys of being outside the US and having league pass (no blackouts).
going on what you see is a much better way to evaluate players, IMO.
That is such a BAD argument. But I’ll accept it. What should I go on then with Carmelo? The game tying 18 footer, the 20 missed shots? The way Carmelo never even looked like passing? Which part?
My eyes tell me Carmelo is capable of extraordinary results. They also show me LOTS of times where Melo takes VERY poor shots. Which one should I preference for?
Quite honestly, which one, because i think this is at the heart of scouting basketball talent – do we rate players on what they CAN do, when they p[lay their best, or on what they ACTUALLY DO, play in play out?
Ideally you need both, but given that isn’t always going to be possible, or easy, do you try to “fix” Shanon Brown’s flawed shot selection, which is clear to the eyes as well as the stats, or do you get a guy with less athletic talent but much more consistency?
my point was
stats don’t show the effect that melo has on a game. the extra attention he commands, the open shots that he creates by driving to the basket. how he can take the ball to the basket at will.
he also has the stats, the production you talk about. 25-6.5-3 on 46% shooting. He’s averaged that his over his entire career. not many players have put up those type of numbers.
My point is they DO
And besides, I find it wonderfully ironic that you claim “stats don’t show the effect” and then finish with " 25-6.5-3 on 46% shooting. He’s averaged that his over his entire career. not many players have put up those type of numbers."
Um, so which is it? Do the stats show the effect or not?
my point was that he has the stats that you worship so much
AND he does things that can’t be measured by stats.
I love pie fights...
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
For a guy who can create so many open shots for his teammates
why does he have so few assists??? 2.9 last year?
His supporting cast is pretty good so maybe he isn’t passing when double teammed???
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:38 AM MST up reply actions
just because you don't get the assist
doesn’t mean you aren’t helping. Hockey assists, and the shots that melo create just by being on the floor aren’t measured by stats.
so by what are they measured????
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
You're not really creating shots
when you have almost 3x as many touches in one quarter as your other All-Star teammate. There’s no doubt that Melo is probably the third best scorer in the league behind Kobe and Durant, but he’s doing what Kobe did back before the Lakers acquired Gasol: shooting his team out of games.
He’s gotta play smarter and become more of a playmaker. He may get double and triple teamed, which means he’ll have teammates with open looks. But what good is that if he doesn’t pass the ball to his teammates to take advantage of those open looks?
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
lately he's been playing terrible
but over the course of his career, he’s played on elite offenses! if he’s as bad a team player as you say he is, then how could his teams be amongst the best offensively?
I dunno
Why do YOU think the reason is Melo?
Denver’s offence got BETTER after Melo left. Shouldn’t that tell you something about the players he played with?
hahaha again, you are making stuff up
they averaged 107.579 points with melo, and 107.16 without melo.
looks like the offense was slightly better with carmelo anthony….
lol are you done just making stuff up now?
HOCKEY ASSISTS?!
NBA already has veeeery lax rules about what is an assist, with all the triple teams he’s seeing he should be getting 3 assists a game JUST off kickouts. And another 3 or 4 of pick and rolls with Amar’e.
He is not however, and it’s not because he can’t pass, he’s simply a ball hog.
you don't get credit for an assist
if you are the pass before the assist. thats my point
That's because that is NOT an assist in basketball
Melo often is triple teamed and is ONE PASS away from getting someone an open look. He refuses to pass regardless of how open his teammates are.
It’s not like soccer where to get the assist where you actually have to be the last passer AND get the man you pass to in position to score. In basketball you can get assists simply feeding someone with a hot hand in the post. Or passing out of triple teams for a drive or a jumper.
again, thats my point. thats why i called it a hockey assist.
i was just trying to show that melo’s influence on a game cannot be fully measured by stats.
So him being a team player is "influencing the game outside of stats" now?
Really? He’s supposed to play within the team, but he’s not, he’s shotjacking like crazy and always has been. He really enjoys those first round exits it seems.
he's playing bad now.
but he’s been a 46% shooter during his career. hardly a shotjacker.
has he shot too much at times? sure. has kobe? yes. sometimes players try to do it all on their own.
i’m not saying he’s the greatest team player. but he’s not the cancerous, ballhogging, egomaniac you make him out to be.
Agree wholeheartedly
This is why a guy like Scola, Gortat or West can help a team much more than Melo.
And he still remains a much more talented player.
So who is better?
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:36 AM MST up reply actions
give it time
this year it will all make sense ;)
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jan 23, 2012 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
Based on what I've read
it looks like forget is to Melo what Raptorel is to Vince Carter. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
except i'm defending an elite player
and he was defending an old, broken down all-star.(i assume he was defending VC when he was on the suns)
O RLY?
Rockets in 08-09 → 53-29, lost to the Lakers in 7 Semis
Nuggets in 08-09 → 50-32, lost to the Lakers in 6 WCF
Were the Nuggets that much better? Not really.
Hornets in 07-08 → 56-26, lost in 7 games to Spurs in the Semis
Nuggets in 07-08 → 51-31, swept in first round by Lakers
YEP. SO. MUCH. BETTER.
jesus, the nuggets made it to the WCF.
and had the lakers on the ropes!
so NO had a better season in 07-08, therefore one of those players was on ONE team that had a better season than melo. great.
how bout every other season? lol.
And then Melo checked out
Consider that in 09-10 Rockets were without Yao Ming. That’s like Melo without a backcourt, which ironically is exactly what he lacks right now.
And consider that in 08-09, Hornets were one win away from getting 50 wins, and in 09-10 they were 26 in 47 when CP3 tore his meniscus (despite changing coaches what, 10 games into the season?).
What if Melo had no Iverson in ‘06? Or what if he had no Billups in ’08? Same thing, doubt they’d win as many games as they did. He was lucky to be on a stacked team with a great coach. He had a team built for his game, except he did not play the game the way any sane person would anticipate. He hero balled them to, well, nowhere.
that rockets team was truly amazing.
to this day, no one knows how they took the Lakers to 7 games lol.
idk what the part about the hornets was about. what’s your point.
all i know is, melo has been to the playoffs every season he’s been in the league.
you guys are trying to prove that melo stinks, but you can’t lol.
Yao was healthy for one thing
And if you don’t understand what I meant with Hornets, clearly, you must lack English language comprehension skills. Hornets didn’t continue win much two seasons ago because CP3 was injured.
Haha no he wasn't. Do u not remember the roll that team went on without Yao and t-Mac?
I understood what u meant, I just didn’t see how it was relevant. The injury happened, haha u have no idea how it would have turned out.
by forget on Jan 24, 2012 1:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
How was he not healthy when he played in nearly every game?
If not for the injury I doubt it would go anywhere close to 7 games.
they had them on the ropes as well.
but CF>semis last time i checked
Tying 2-2 and losing the last 2 games after your star checks out...
Hardly qualifies as “having them on the ropes”. Gotta love that homervision you have going on dude. Keep it coming.
He checked out?
You’re just saying that because he lost the game. He didn’t play especially well, but look at his stats from those games. He took enough shots, and got to the free throw line 10+ times. How is that “checking out”?
They were tied going into the 4th during game 5, that’s why I said they had them on the ropes. If they win that game, Denver would most likely have been in the finals.
Haha I’m not the one with the crazy ideas here, anyone who knows basketball would say that melo is a great, great player.
by forget on Jan 24, 2012 1:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
It's because he doesn't have a PG and he's playing with Melo and a Center (which is bad for him without a PG).
Remember in 08-09 when Amar’e was averaging 18-20 and 8 and were all wondering what the problem is? It was Porter making Shaq the #1 option.
Now, things are even worse. Stoudemire is in the WORST POSSIBLE SYSTEM he could be in. It does not take advantage of his strengths whatsoever and because he’s not a good defender, he becomes a nobody.
Don't trade Dudley!
Lol, just for laughs
The Knicks are going to need to make a trade and it either has to be Amar’e or Melo. Now that we have an amnesty clause, I wouldn’t mind taking him off their hands. I’ll give them Chill, Frye, Lopez and a 1st round pick.
Don't trade Dudley!
That's a great trade for us...Like I said before..
I’d welcome STAT back with open arms…
Let's do this...!
Knicks should have stayed put with the roster they had.
Felton was doing a pretty good Steve Nash impression and Galliari+ Chandler had no problems being second fiddle to Amare…It was because of Amare they got wide open shots on the perimeter which lead too teams have to actually defend them which eventually left Amare in 1 on 1 situations.
Then, this off-season the Knicks could have either signed Tyson Chandler and continued to stick with this team or they could have instead traded Felton+Gallinari or Chandler+ draft pick or Fields or something along those lines for Paul.
Hell, the Knicks would have ever been much better off if they ended up signing Joe Johnson and Amare that off-season. Johnson could care less if he’s putting up 25+PPG or 17-8-9 stat lines.
Melo is an awesome talent however any team which has any playoff aspirations cannot rely on him to the primary ball handler. Maybe Baron Davis is the answer, maybe not.
If not then the Knicks should go after either Jose Calderon or Ramon Sessions. Both Melo and Amare play best off-of-the-ball in high-tempo offenses.
Dear Bill,
Fuck You.
-Charles
Letter that Charles Barkley sent to Bill Lambieer through a ballboy during the 89-90 season....Moments later, Barkley and Lambieer got into a fist fight.
Melo passes just fine on Team USA
He’s actually a good passer, but you wouldn’t know it from watching Knicks. Who on the Knicks is going to tell him to stop shooting so much? Mike D, Amare?… Doubtful.
I think Knicks jumped the gun by amnestying Billups. It was a waste of money when the only prize was a chance at overpaying Chandler. Billups was on an expiring contract and is a savvy veteran baller that has played with Melo. He wasn’t a good fit on NY, but NY had a good chance at Dwight or Williams in summer of 2012 so why not wait? Now they are handcuffed.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 22, 2012 7:25 PM MST reply actions
Potential vs Reality
That is NBA basetball’s 64 million dollar problem. Carmelo is one of those guys who looks a lot better than what he produces. Compare him to Lebron, and Melo just isn’t in the same class.
True
Nobody is. However, game winning jump shot I’m taking Melo over Lebron. Everything else, Lebron.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
Now they are handcuffed.
Yes, now they are handcuffed.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Good article Alex.
This discussion makes me sad.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
Anthony is one of the worst players in the league
He shoots a relatively low % from the field, and takes a ton of shots. He doesn’t play particularly good defense, and he’s a cancer in the locker room.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
The other day when I went outside I stepped in a puddle.
I thought it was probably because of the rain from the night before. The more I think about it now, I bet Melo probably did it.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 8:45 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
ASU's system got hacked the other day
i suspect Melo.
Broke my egg yolk this morning.
Melo.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 8:54 PM MST up reply actions
Your misspelling of the and cabinet
Melo
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
I wouldn't write off the Knicks or Amare just yet...
Amare’s always been a bit of a slow starter and probably especially this year with no real training camp or preseason.
Remember our 09-10 team? He didn’t go into his MVP-level beast mode until mid season, but when he did, he was unstoppable.
I can easily see the Knicks doing the same thing – mediocre first half and beat the crap out of everybody the rest of the way.
I personally was glad we saw them early for our one game against them this season.
I'm Michael Beasley's imaginary friend.
by suns68 on Jan 22, 2012 8:57 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I absolutely remember people speaking of his demise....
Those reports turned out to be somewhat premature.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 22, 2012 9:03 PM MST up reply actions
Have you watched him this season?
Amar’e always looked like a coiled spring, ready to explode. He had grace and walked with a bounce This year he looks… old. Really old.
As a massive Amar’e fan, it is truly sad to watch.
There was one play where I swear, I thought I was watching a YMCA game – Amar’e looked really old.
I am rooting for him, truly I am because I loved the way he exploded down the lane, the way every year he came back with a new tool and I think he handled all the turmoil in Phoenix well.
But the Knicks are INSANE if they push Amar’e hard this year. They need to conserve him, because this year they are going nowhere, and if they push him they may break him.
Nowhere might be a bit of an overstatement at this moment in time...
I think they’re only half a game out of playoff position.
I'm Michael Beasley's imaginary friend.
by suns68 on Jan 22, 2012 9:56 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Nowhere it is worth killing Amar'e over
But you are right, OMFG, you are right. http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2 – one LOSS (HALF a game) outside 8th. How woeful is the east?
Still, KYK are more likely to make noise next year, this year they are a 1st round exit waiting to happen, so resting Amar’e is wise. He really does need it, from the looks of him and what I heard.
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
But the Knicks are INSANE if they push Amar’e hard this year. They need to conserve him, because this year they are going nowhere, and if they push him they may break him.
That’s how I feel about Steve Nash
Don't trade Dudley!
The Suns haven't guaranteed Nash $64M over the next three seasons
Like the Knicks have with Stoudemire.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 22, 2012 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
But Nash might LITERALLY be done
As in last year ever – so playing him is less insane.
by MMotherwell on Jan 22, 2012 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Amar'e wants to sit out games
The Denver game had a LONG discussion about it from the commentators (the KYK guys) and they said Amar’e’s kness are troubling him, and he might struggle to play many games – especially back to back to backs.
That bodes scarily for the Knicks, because that team is wafer thin.
The reason the Knicks are so bad is simple.
Somewhere and somehow Isiah Thomas is still very much in control of the Knicks.
Lol, did anyone hear Stephen A. Smith's rant on Amar'e and the Knicks.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Link link link?
S.A.M.. Can rip someone to shreds
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 23, 2012 2:20 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
LOL
Sounds like it is it. Man, Stephen A is the man.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
"melo's big time, and got game"
-Stephen A.
“when baron davis is healthy, he can ball”
great minds think alike i guess…
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