Free Agency?
by NASHTY777 on Jan 26, 2012 4:26 PM MST
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PrintGordon would provide an amazing scoring punch for us, if Nash stays, Gordon can completely elevate his game to a new level. He could be a great player for us, he doesn't necessarily need the ball to score, unlike Kobe, but like J-Rich. He could completely turn this team around for the better.
OJ Mayo. Many rumors say Memphis doesn't want him. He could be the best off the bench scorer for us, with his deadly three point shot, he would work wonders for our bench.
Gerald Wallace, an extreme lockdown defender who can also score the basketball. A Wallace/Hill combo would be a nightmare for the other team, the best defensive three positions in the league.
The JET. If the Mavs are pushing to get a big name this FA, they are gonna HAVE to let terry go. If we get terry, he can play the backup point or the backup two. His position all depends if we sign nash and or brooks and if we get oj and gordon.
A strong backup inside pf like LOU. We all know him, no description needed.
A good starting PF like Jamison, if we can get him at the right price. He is great defensively and offensively, two things we need.
McGee may not want to stay in Washington, they suck. He is an all star center on a horrible team. IF we can pry him, he would be a great player on this team, with Nash feeding him.
I KNOW we aren't getting everyone on this list, heck, we might not even get two or three, but these are just our options. If we get any two or three of these, we could be contenders (if we keep Nash and don't trade away Gortat) We could probably acquire one of these people in trades and probably get two or three in FA. I would call that a great team. All the other teams will be worrying about Dwight and DWIll, but we will be going under the radarish for people we know we can get.
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Anyone have ideas to make any of these trades happen?
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
it would all depend on Gordon
basically look at the Celtics of a few years ago-they were a wasteland no one wanted to join with one aging star who everyone was sure would be gone..but as soon as Garnett and Allen signed up, suddenly it was a different game. Suddenly it was THE place to be…
I could see that happening here as well, and I dont know if Gordon is our Garnett, but hey, it’s be a start…I like most of the guys on your list BTW
I believe Allen was the first to go to the C's
so in this analogy, perhaps Gordon could be that player.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Where was the 'none of the above' option?
Gordan isn’t going to leave a bad team for a bad team and all of those options reinforce the downgrading of talent trend Sarver is so desperate to employ in order to save money.
If I ever gave good advise, I assure you, it was purely by accident.
by Walter ChronKite on Jan 26, 2012 8:13 PM MST reply actions
If we re-sign Steve Nash, we're instantly better than the Hornets.
But if we do not land Eric Gordon, I’d want Gerald Wallace, Batum, or Wilson Chandler. Jason Terry’s a ratface turdwad and my many years of loathing him will make his presence on this team near insufferable.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
I'll disagree on your Steve Nash thing and leave it at that.
I loved Gerald Wallace’s game back in Charlotte. We would have fit us perfectly prior to this season.
Going forward we have to keep in mind who our owner is, Bob ‘The ’Tard’ Sarver. Money is his issue, and he’s trying to get down to the lowest bottomline possible.
If I ever gave good advise, I assure you, it was purely by accident.
by Walter ChronKite on Jan 26, 2012 9:01 PM MST up reply actions
That's just not true
He could make more money in lots of ways.
Like leaving town? I'd totally donate to that cause.
If I ever gave good advise, I assure you, it was purely by accident.
by Walter ChronKite on Jan 27, 2012 6:55 PM MST up reply actions
Seriously, quit saying the man is cheap
We have been above the salary cap since he’s bought the team. He spends money and there is no arguement that can be made otherwise. What makes him a bad owner is that he makes really bad decisions and worse front office hirings/firings. He didn’t extend JJ because he didnt feel that a player of JJ’s caliber (at that point and time) was worth what JJ wanted. Sarver would have given Amare the max if he had no doubts about his health, and the contract overall was only about 4 million short of the max although not fully guaranteed, again due to health concerns. At the time the consensus (and it kinda still is) was that sarver made a more than fair offer to a very good player with very serious health issues. He’s also made some trades and signings that have brought in high paid contracts (even they were bad moves). Next year is the first year that we will be under the salary cap, as a plan to go after marquee players in free agency, thus SPENDING money. So drop the “Sarver is cheap” bullcrap. I’m sick of hearing it.
by LouDub on Jan 26, 2012 10:17 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm going to stick with my guns on this one.
You mentioned 2 cases where Sarver made a reason decision, JJ and Amar’e. I disagree with his decision on Amar’e, but thats not my point of contention. Rather it is the continuous downgrading of talent and that he spends less money by doing so. Aberations have, and will, occur. It has been the Suns FO intention to get this organization UNDER the salary cap AND still contend. That only happens by spending less money on weaker talent.
If I ever gave good advise, I assure you, it was purely by accident.
by Walter ChronKite on Jan 27, 2012 6:59 PM MST up reply actions
That is just factually false
Specifically:
It has been the Suns FO intention to get this organization UNDER the salary cap AND still contend.
Signing JChill and Hak, and trading for Hedo, was adding money. The plan to get under the cap came AFTER these moves failed – and one that wouldn’t have been made if the aforementioned signings had worked out.
Seriously, who signs JChill to a 5 year deal if the intention is to be under the cap?
The FO has 100% made mistakes, massive mistakes, but that is separate from being cheap, and it is completely rewriting history to claim being under the cap was a long term plan.
You should be more careful when using words like "factually"
When facts don’t help you. To Wit:
1. Refused to give JJ the extension that everyone in the L knew he was worth. This isn’t talent evaluation – the Suns with JJ are the favorites to win the title for the next 5 years. Sarver thought he could do it without paying JJ. That is what the word “cheap” means.
2. If he isn’t cheap, why is the front office forced to trade away Kurt Thomas with TWO #1 DRAFT PICKS. This, alone, kill your point.
3. May seem like a small point, but he cuts Ben Wallace after we the Shaq trade, even tho he had an amazingly productive year that year. Think those 09/10 Suns could have used a consistent defender/rebounder?
4. Sarver never mentioned he would be willing to give Amare the max. There is no proof he ever intended to.
5. You can’t say that Sarver didn’t want the team under the cap when THATS EXACTLY WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SUMMER. Since Kerr was gone, and Sarver finally had full control, he’s done nothing but sign fringe players to give an appearance of trying, but done nothing bold to change the team. This is the Donald Sterling strategy.
Oops, he traded for Paul. I guess it’s the Sarver strategy now
Hold on, I used factually in a specific context
What I wrote was:
The plan to get under the cap came AFTER these moves failed
The plan wasn’t to create cap space – it was to be good. Hedo and JChill haven’t made that happen, so the FO went to plan B, lets get under the cap.
Maybe you misuderstood me, maybe I wasn’t clear, but the “factually incorrect” part was that the Suns are trying to get under the cap. Hogswash. they signed JChill and traded for Hedo EXPECTING to be good and well over the cap.
The trade for Gortat salvaged heaps of cap space, but it wasn’t “the plan” initially.
Lets look at your other points:
Refused to give JJ the extension
He wasn’t worth what he ultimately got, no, but maybe that is something you disagree on.
If he isn’t cheap, why is the front office forced to trade away Kurt Thomas with TWO #1 DRAFT PICKS. This, alone, kill your point.
Define “cheap” for me, and we can talk. Definitions help define a debate
You seem to want to define cheap as “does he spend as much as humanly possible? No? Then he is cheap”. Whereas I think having a top 10 payroll for several tears running classes him as “not cheap”, but rather fiscally responsible, in the same way a man who spends all his money is not cheap, and a man with massive credit card debt isn’t “not cheap”. YMMV, but can we get a definition up in this debate?
May seem like a small point, but he cuts Ben Wallace after we the Shaq trade,
So you’d have paid the $5million in tax, not counting the $4 million in extra revenue they got being under, to keep Wallace, a guy who is unsuited to our style?
Sarver never mentioned he would be willing to give Amare the max. There is no proof he ever intended to.
The Suns are on record as offering Amar’e max money, with the last two years partially guaranteed and if you watch Amare now, which I don’t think most people have for more than the suns game, that was a wise and prudential move. Amare is in year two, and he klooks close to done.
You can’t say that Sarver didn’t want the team under the cap when THATS EXACTLY WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SUMMER.
See above, but you know, starting at the end and working backwards to find reasons is a flawed way to understand what happened.
Livingston
God that’s be good. HE solves so many of our problems (defence and backup PG).
McGee may not want to stay in Washington, they suck.
We suck too.
The REAL Big 3: Nash, Frye and Gortat
And he's kind of a head case
but he is a freakish talent. Not sure if he would ‘fit in’ with our team since he seems very selfish.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
McGee is is no way a freakish talent.
He is a freakish athlete, without talent
Yes
That is what I meant. But he does have some talent. He DID dunk like 3 balls at one time.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
He has talent as a shotblocker
he’s been top 3 in blocks per minute every year he’s been in the league. He’s also a pretty good rebounder, as I recall.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
If we can land Gordon, that would be fantastic.
I’m not holding my breath though.
I just hope we at least get one of the great SF options: Wallace, Chandler, Batum. I would also like to get Mayo. We desperately need that PG/SG scorer.
Nash/Brooks
(Gordon or Mayo)/Dudley
(Wallace/Chandler/Batum) / Hill (or Draft Pick/Chilly?)
Morris/Draft Pick (or random FA)
Gortat/Frye
Looks miles ahead of where we are now, and is actually very doable.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
Ideally we can get 2 picks this year
One in the top 10, and hopefully a mid-late round pick for Lopez. We could then get a PG later and let Brooks walk. I imagine our first pick will be a SF/PF.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
PLAYER LIST
KEEP: Nash, Gortat, Morris, Hill
Maybe:Price, Frye, Hak, Redd, brown, duds
Do not keep: Telfair, chilly, FROLO
Add: Brooks (he’s comin back in March, if we could sign him, great), Gordon/mayo/Jett, Wallace/Batum, Lou/McGee/Jamison
LINEUP:
Nash/Brooks
Gordon(or Mayo or Jett)/Duds(or Redd or Brown)
Wallace(or Batum)/Hill
Morris/Lou(or Jamison)
Gortat/(random FA or McGee) possible Brook Lopez? I think he’s an improvement over Rolo, but IDK. and if we get Camby to sign a good contract, I think he would be a great addition to this team because of his experience and BBALL IQ
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
That would be sweet
But is that really a realistic scenario?
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Flagged for wanting Jason Terry here.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Also this
I hate Terry so much!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I know everyone hates terry
but the guy would fit in with this team, when we used to have one of the best benches in the league in 09-10, we had someone who was an offensive first player, someone who could dictate the offense, someone who could score. That person was Leandro Barbosa. Jason Terry is also an offensive first player, but he isn’t bad on defense. He would bring the offense back to our bench, in 09-10 we had someone who was the base of our offense on the bench. We still have decent scorers on the bench, like Brown, duds (when he’s on the bench), morris (when he’s on the bench), and I even think Redd still has some flair. We just need some person like Barbosa who could be the backbone of our offense, and I think Terry can be that person.
"Nash is 25 and Hill is 27. It doesn't matter what it says in their birth certificates. Lies, all lies."-Scott Howard Cooper, NBA.com
He is a great fit
But the man relishes beating the Suns more than anything other than winning the ring. I don’t want that kind of person on my team!!!!!! I would rather suck than have him hahahahahahaha. Plus he is getting old so no thanks.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I'm all for Terry
He’d be a nice pick up, and he is a nice backup option.
Are you kidding?
40 year old Hill? He’s retiring after this season.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Crazy idea time
Rather than focus on getting stars in FA, when there really aren’t any, or signing anyone long term to a bad contract, we could go sideways and sign two good, above average guys to one year max contracts (2nd year team option if it is a RFA).
Gerald Wallace and one of Batum, George Hill or Eric Gordon makes sense. That solves our biggest needs (a 2 and a 3) and drqamatically improves our D and our O.
If we amnesty JChill, we’ll have $34 mil to play with. That is $15 for Wallace, $7 for Nash, $12 for Batum/Hill/Gordon. If we can use the MLE on Nash, we’d have $7 mil more to play with.
A team of Nash, Batum/Hill/Gordon, Wallace, Morris, Gortat, Dudley, Frye and Price/ our 1st round pick would be a pretty good 8 man rotation. That is a team that could make a solid run, and we’d have solid a solid 9th man in Hak, and we could probably sign a veteran minimum guy or two to fill gaps. Heck, we could probably resign Hill and Lopez for the minimum.
More than likely NOLA Matches Gordon, but Batum and Hill for crazy money is less matchable by either Portland or Indiana.
Sure, it’s a risky move, but one that would give us one more Nash run, and max cap space again in Free Agency in 2013, when we might be able to get a better players.
In any case, the number one thing we should avoid is signing average players to long term contracts, and if that means over paying for a single year, then I vote YES PLEASE.
I think Detroit is the worst scenario
A team signs bad/incomplete players (Gordon, Villeneuva) to long term, above the odds deals, then the team is sucky, like not quite playoffs good, not quite draft Griffin bad, and the fans lose interest, the team stagnates and we have years of games like this year.
Short term, over paid deals aren’t so bad, because you don’t get stuck with bad players, and can make another run at a quality FA the year after, while drafting 1st rounders that (you hope) work out.
An optimistic me says we could have a roster like this:
Brooks/Kabongo
Lamb/?
Batum/Dudley
Landry/Morris
Gortat/Turiaf
This would probably be a 35 win team but add Nash and it is a playoff team with lots of young talent going forward. I think we will pursue Batum hard this summer, not many of the other teams with cap space would offer him as much as we would (probably something in the 4 year, $36m range).
But we will probably end up with something like this:
Nash/Bayless
Dudley/Barbosa
Kidd-Gilchrist/Ilyasova
Morris/Frye
Gortat/?
This will probably be a 25-30 win team as it is pretty similar to this years roster, and once again stuck in the middle with no good young players and an average draft pick.
Nobody
The Suns will be best served to give out only 1 year deals because nobody worth it will be available without massive overpaying.
And signing a buch of role players like Barbosa , Batum or Lou does nothing for this team. We are already filled with expensive role players.
There is no use in giving up our cap space right now except for someone special. Keep the capspace until you drafted 2-3 allstar quality prospects and only need role players to fill out the roster.
Or short term deals
If we suck for two years no matter what, a two year deal won’t kill us.
Nash, if he resigns, has one year left. There is no one great we can sign (D12 and Deron? Doubtful!) but we can get a Wallace and Batum for a year, and lets go nuts and see what happens.
1 year deals
with a team option 2nd year… just in case the guy explodes in a featured role. :-)
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
You have to offer second if they are restricted FAs
But agreed!
Lets just all pray we don’t get a 5 year player like JChill again.
Players i'd like to see (starters or bench material) the sun's go after not including the obvious of Howard or DWill
PG: Felton / bayless / George hill / hinrich all could be contributing back ups (if nash re-signs)
SG: Gordon / mayo
SF: Wallace / batum / chandler
PF – Thompson / anderson
C – Kaman / okur
Realistically, i think this would at least improve in many areas without breaking the bank.
Not Kaman
Not Okur (unless cheap) and not Mayo and not Gordon – they’ll be too expensive – and no way NOLA doesn’t match Gordon, and we’ll end up missing on someone else if we offer him a contract (NOLA has 7 days to match it).
Also, people forget Kirilenko – he’d be a good signing as well for a cheap contract. And Odom will be available, and likely at least one other Amnestied player.
i wouldn't mind Kirilenko, but i hope he isn't the first choice
if they can’t get okur or kaman, frye can always slide over if they get a PF to start or back up morris.
do you know what mayo or gordon are demanding on the open market? because just saying "no way, they’ll be too expensive or NOLA will match isn’t very helpful. i think the suns should offer them “fair” market value and not over pay. if they do that, and strike out, so be it.
What about Gortat? Do we need Kaman?
do you know what mayo or gordon are demanding on the open market? because just saying "no way, they’ll be too expensive or NOLA will match isn’t very helpful. i think the suns should offer them "fair" market value
I think Mayo will get too much, because I don’t think he’s very productive. But that’s me, you may disagree.
Both Mayo and Gordon are RFAs, which means their current team have 7 days to match any offer. That means you realistically get to bid on only one of the two – because we don’t want to end up with both and no one else.
I doubt NOLA will do anything but match Gordon – it would cause an uproar if an NBA owned team game a player away, but if we offer the MAX, they may. I’m just not sure Gordon is worth it – LAC got a lot better after he left, and he is really injury prone.
They got better after he left
because they got someone named Chris Paul.
I would still offer him the Max and see what happens. He is a top 5 SG and is the youngest out of that bunch by a long shot. He won’t make our team great, but he is a start, and we need to start somewhere.
Regarding injuries, we’ll just have to hope our great staff can keep him healthy. I have a feeling he could probably be playing now, but NOLA has no need to rush him back on this lost season.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
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