Steve Nash Trade Rumors: Phoenix Suns Want To Pay Nash To Stay
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 10:46 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns News
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Everyone has an opinion about Steve Nash but there's only two men who's minds matter -- Steve Nash and Robert Sarver. So far, those guys have been rock solid in their commitment to each other and the latest NBA trade rumor only reinforces that the #FreeSteveNash movement will be about as effective as #OccupyNYC was in getting anything done beyond...OK, let's not go to politics.
According to Hoops World, the Suns are more interested in using their prodigious cap space in 2012 to keep Nash in Phoenix a few more years than they are to trade him:
NBA AM: Who Is Available In Trade? | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors
Suns fans are worried that the team may lose a future hall of famer to free agency, but sources close to the situation say the Suns may be willing to do a new deal with Nash this summer in the $8 to $10 million range to insure Steve stays in Phoenix and that kind of money may be more than anyone else in free agency would or could pay for Nash.
The story goes on to say the Suns, who have received only poop-level offers for Nash so far, would only consider a trade if "its clear Nash is leaving, that's when a trade will likely happen and the Suns are not there yet."
Bringing Nash back for a couple of years does make sense, especially since they will have all that cap space available and (likely) no max players worth spending it on. He's also clearly a better fit with Marcin Gortat than any other available options.
This summer Phoenix will have about $26.5m in cap space and $33m if they choose to amnesty Josh Childress. With Dwight Howard and Deron Williams almost certainly going somewhere else, there's no need to have all that space burning a hole in someone's pocket.
Giving Nash $8m still leaves plenty to throw at an RFA like Nic Batum or OJ Mayo and some left over to do a few other things. Does that make the Suns a contender again?
No, but remember that Robert Sarver doesn't have the stomach for a full blow up and rebuild through the draft:
"I don't know that I can sit there for four years and watch a terrible team play," Sarver said in 2010.
If you are a fan of the "Four Years Of Suck, Draft Plan" then put your hopes in Channing Frye and Jared Dudley continuing to play poorly; the Suns not getting anything of value for Robin Lopez; and Steve Nash being ready to leave the comforts of Phoenix for a ring-chasing move that doesn't seem to be part of his character.
Otherwise, get ready for a few more years of Nash and hopefully the addition of at least another couple of decent players this summer via free agency and a low lottery pick. It may not be great but it's better than over-spending on the wrong guy out of a free agent class with slim pickings.
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If he goes, you KNOW the Suns will suck bad for a long time
If he stays, there’s a chance they won’t suck as bad
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed, Seth. I hope he stays. You never root for someone so loyal or someone so fun to watch to leave. It’s like un-American. He is our team.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
I'd rather we suck as much as we can so we can get more than a 10-15 lottery pick
Rebuilding is so much better than being mediocre and not going where.
Don't trade Dudley!
We will be getting better than a 10-15 lotto pick...
Right now PHX is in the 5-10 range and I dont see it getting any better than that. Possibly much worse. We wont hit the historically bad records that teams like Charlotte and Detriot have but I can see us dropping to New Orleans level if the season wears on Nash and Hill. That would put us in the 4-8 range which is awesome.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Really?
4-8 is the bad zone traditionally.
The old bottom out vs treadmill team debate again
I vote for the latter
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
And by latter, I mean former
Wow. I can’t type today.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
The most important thing is that we find our next superstar(s).
If Nash goes, maybe we find a franchise guy through the draft as a result of a higher pick from the inevitable suckage that Nash leaves behind. But if Nash stays, we still have a chance to draft a great player; and if we can manage to keep plenty of cap space over the next couple of years, maybe Nash’s presence influences a top free agent to choose Phoenix over other cities.
franchise players in the draft
the chance to get one outside the top 5 , to be honest top 3, is slim to none.
You can go back through past drafts and you will find that the majority is drafted at the top, then it falls off dramatically.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
i think thats not truth telling
1998: nowitzki 9, pirce 10 (1 Olowokandi, 3 Raef LaFrentz )
1999: ginobili 57 (2 steve francis)
2001: 19 Zach Randolph, 28 Toni Parker, 30 Arenas (1 Kwame)
2002: 9 Amare, 35 boozer, 55 scola (2 Jay Williams, 3 Dunleavy)
2005: 10 bynum, 17 granger, 40 Monta Ellis ( 2 Marvin Williams)
…..
i’m stetching the franchiseplayer thing a bit.
But its no guarantee that you’ll get a better player in the top 3, than you got in the Top 10
Stuttgart Sport
Suns, FCK, Packers - thats Feld
of the players you mentioned
only Dirk Nowitzki is a franchise player.
The others are borderline allstars not even and if you want to stretch that Amare might count as a perennial allstar.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 5:45 AM MST up reply actions
franchise players
Among recent franchise players:
Rose #1 pick
Griffin #1 pick
Durant #2 pick
Wade #5 pick
James #1 pick
Howard #1 pick
Garnett #5 pick
Duncan #1 pick
Nowitzki #9 pick – the foreign player as a viable top choice was simply not a modern thought in the NBA back then
Shaq #1 pick
Kobe #13 pick – draft position lowered because he refused to workout for teams he basically forced his way to LA
Kidd #2 pick
Nash #15 pick – took 8 years in the league before he reached consideration for that status
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 5:50 AM MST up reply actions
could add more
Kevin Love #5
Vince Carter #5
Grant Hill #3
Brandon Roy #6
Tracy McGrady #9
John Wall #1
Ricky Rubio #5
Kyrie Irving #1
Chris Webber #1
Penny Hardaway #2
David Robinson #1
Hakeem Olajuwon #1
Patrick Ewing #1
Gary Payton #2
John Stockton #16
Karl Malone #13
Michael Jordan #2
Charles Barkley #5
As you can see you have to go far back to find a few. In the last 25 years it was only Nash, Nowitzki, McGrady and Kobe. A foreigner, two highschoolers and Nash who reached that status late in his career.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 5:58 AM MST up reply actions
throw in
Melo #3
Bosh #4
if you like Magic, Bird, KAJ
The truth is that franchise players are almost exclusively available in the top 5 and with foreign players being scouted way more extensively and highschoolers not being able to enter the draft anymore it is even more unlikely to find that type of talent later.
The whole thing with busts in the top picks is really overstated too. If you go back through the draft you will find a common pattern that almost all of the complete busts are cases when teams reached for center at the top of draft instead of going with pure talent. Other than that you will find that most picks were at least decent NBA role players.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:01 AM MST up reply actions
thre are more than a few lower than 3rd
so you made my point. thanx
Stuttgart Sport
Suns, FCK, Packers - thats Feld
6 out of 38
everyone else was drafted in the top 6, most in the top 3
Stockton, Malone – in the early 80s
Nowitzki – the pick that started extensive scouting in europe
McGrady – highschooler
Kobe – highschooler
Nash – late bloomer
Like I said the chance is getting extremely small if you are not in the top 5.
so 15% of the franchise players in the last 30 years or so were drafted outside of the top 6. And that chance has gotten substantially smaller with the scouting in europe and the age limit that restricts high reward high risk highschool players to go straight to the pros.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 7:46 AM MST up reply actions
chris paul
chris paul #4
deron williams #3
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:15 AM MST up reply actions
This is a Bright Side story
And I agree. I would much rather give Nash 8-10 mil for two more years then throw max offers at guys like Batum or whoever. Bad contracts are the unforgivable sin.
My hope is still that we get a really high draft pick this year. I think the Suns road to contending might be more in the current Nuggets/Pistons/05 Pistons route: No superstar, but loads of quality players.
Best case scenario might look like:
Trading Lopez at the deadline for a pick or project, getting a top ten pick of our own, Nash staying cause he’s a loyal bad-ass, sign a quality RFA or two at a reasonable price, and take low-level flyers on guys like Green and Oden.
Nash-RFA (Dragic/Bayless/Hinrich)
10 Draft (Rivers-Beal-Lamb-Gilchrist) – RFA (Lee/MayoDelfino/Miles)
Draft/RFA – Dudley
Morris/Green
Gortat/Oden
I think the Suns could morph into one of those teams that wears other teams down again with a full rotation. The opposite of the SSOL suns probably.
I guess I’ve been convinced that chasing a “superstar” through the draft is risky.
some problems
1. Oden will get money from someone and it won’t be the Suns. Plus why would he want to backup Gortat? If he is healthy he is easily the more impactful player.
2. Jeff Green has a heart condition and neither Green or Morris are starting material at the PF position.
3. That team is at best a .500 team and we will draft at #12 again and not definitely not get a franchise player again while the 2013 FA class will not offer anything in that regard either. Some restricted players that we will only get by overpaying and some role players.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 11:54 AM MST up reply actions
he is "clearly" the more impactful player?
Based on what, how he played 1 season for OSU 3 seasons ago? He hasn’t shown zip yet, except that he can get injured.
Handy men Earl. We are Handy, Men.----- Valentine McKee
when healthy
he was an absolute monster defensively and Portland the best defensive team in the league.. People want to act like Oden was a bust because Portland passed on Durant but he really wasn’t. Oden was going to be a great player himself.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:44 PM MST up reply actions
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
He may be a good center, but he needs to make it through a season. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind coming off the bench
as long as he could play a full season.
Handy men Earl. We are Handy, Men.----- Valentine McKee
He better not mind
He hasn’t even lasted 20% of a full season. He should just be happy for a job.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
center..
is such an in demand position that someone will pay him and someone will offer him a starter position…
why would Miami not make an offer? Suns would have to pay him some big bucks to come here as a backup and getting insurance on his contract is likely impossible..
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 4:02 PM MST up reply actions
Dude you should be a GM, or maybe an expert on ESPN
How the heck can you be so sure about who will spend what on whom, what player will go where, and
how good said player will be? Even top GMs and talent scouts don’t know these things, and they do it for
a living. You sure are ready to shoot down everyone else’s thoughts. Your tone is very dogmatic.
Handy men Earl. We are Handy, Men.----- Valentine McKee
by thedoovage on Jan 30, 2012 4:16 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
I can be so sure
because I open my eyes and ears and follow what happens around the NBA.
If Kwame Brown and other centers can get big paychecks than there is no way that Greg Oden does not get paid by someone.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:27 AM MST up reply actions
And I will laugh
At the poor souls who offer him that contract. If he makes near 8 million or above I am going to just LOL. I doubt he will ever make it through a season.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
it could work...
you just have to tell him to never jump, and never quickly change directions lol.
Haha yeah
“Hey Greg, just stand near the basket and don’t move because we can’t risk injury”
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
My point is
Why would you bring in Oden to be your starter when he can barely stay on the court. You bring him in as a project and hope he stays healthy. I am not signing Greg Oden to start for my team if I am a GM. How can you sell that to fans? He has played in 82 games since he was drafted. Maybe a backup role with less minutes can keep him healthy for gasp a season.
And you even mention getting insurance is pretty much impossible for him. Another reason I am not investing in him to be my starting center. Of course someone is going to make him an offer, he has young legs with low miles on them and was good when he played.
If a team comes in and offers Oden 8+ mil a season then more power to them, I would be furious at our FO if they did that. Uninsured knees with lots of missed time does not = a large contract for me.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
PS
The smart thing would be to sign some talented FAs who are being written off as busts or underachievers to substantial one year deals and see what they can give you.
Players like Johnny Flynn, Hasheem Thabeet, Jordan Hill, Terrence Williams that are not going to be restricted.
Let Steve Nash go to another team where he can have a meaningful ending to his career if you do not trade him now.
Enjoy a season where we won’t win many games but it will be interesting to see some new young faces that offer the fascination of the “unknown” and develop them while being in the thick of the Shabazz Muhammad sweepstakes.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
I didn’t find much credibility in your posts but you lost any of it when you mentioned Johnny Flynn and Thabeet as guys we should get. Come on.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
only option
getting guys who still have untapped potential is the only smart option you have to reach the minimum payroll that the NBA enforces.
You don’t want to sign more role players to longterm deals and lose your capspace in case someone that makes a difference becomes available.
Fortunately even Lon Babby recognizes that and repeatedly said that the Suns likely will keep their capspace available for 2013.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Dude we tried that route already
There named Brown, Price, and Telfair. All so called untapped talent, guys who might turn good with more playing
time and getting passes from Nash. We need obvious talent, granted top tier FA are not going to be available, but
there are better guys out there we can get than Flynn and Thabeet.
Handy men Earl. We are Handy, Men.----- Valentine McKee
sorry
but that is just wrong, Price and Telfair are journeymen.
And yeah we tried that and succeed because all 3 of them will be off of the roster next season because we decided to give out just 1 year deals that was smart.
Good lord would we be bad right now if we handed out multi year deals comparable to Frye and Childress now for even more role players that make no difference.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:36 AM MST up reply actions
talents FAs who are begin written offf as busts...
Awesome! We should go after Shanon Brown, Sebastian Telfair, Josh Childress! That will work out great!
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Childress
Was signed to a long term deal which is a joke, also he wasn’t anything like the players I suggested. He was a veteran and had not played in the NBA for 2 years.
Telfair and Price do not fit the bill either. They are veteran minimum journeymen in the league.
Shannon Brown was a good pickup, even if he sucks, his contract expires next year. It was a smart signing and it is what the Suns have to continue to do unless they find unquestionable bargains or true allstar quality players.
Signing mediocre players right now and wasting the capspace they have is the dumbest thing this franchise could possibly do. You save the capspace for when you have some talented players in place that are worth surrounding them with free agents like that or wait until you can make that good free agent signing,
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:35 AM MST up reply actions
So wait
We SHOULD sign Thabeet? Or players like him? Flynn, Thabeet – Houston let them go for a reason.
they
should sign players to 1 year deals that have untapped talent..
that is way better than spending your money on the next Ben Gordon, Villanueva, Warrick, Childress etc..
Handing out 1 year deals to players like that is the smart thing to do because it allows you to keep flexibility and there also is a remote chance these players still develop into something.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:10 AM MST up reply actions
I’m greedy, I would never get rid of Nash. I would pay him to retire a SUN. It would be good for the team in the long run and is a natural fit in the Ring of Honor. :)
by FourHorseman on Jan 31, 2012 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
This alone really doesn't excite me that much.
I wish it did. But it doesn’t. We’re currently seeing a Suns team led by Nash that has no weapons and it sucks and is boring. Guess I’ll just hope they find SOME weapons for him.
Jury will remain out.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 30, 2012 11:23 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I still think JD and Frye will eventually come back to their norms…certainly they need at least another month before writing them off (although I would still trade JD for Beasley)
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
even if
Jared Dudley and Channing Frye are not exciting players to watch. If they are on their game they are solid role players.
If not they are in the discussion for the worst player in the league with meaningful playing time which is Channing Frye this season.
Honestly I couldn’t make it through another year of Steve Nash leading a team with little talent to maybe 35 to 40 wins. If the Suns go that route I would be surprised if they can sell even more than half of the tickets to games next year unless they win the lottery.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
This makes a lot of sense.
I have never understood the line of thought I’ve seen in the comments here that the Suns need to dump Nash in order to rebuild. As long as he isn’t taking up a bunch of cap room, and $8-$10M isn’t, especially for what he brings, then why do we have to get rid of him? He’s not stopping us from getting other good players except in the lower draft position we get from him helping us win. And I can’t find it in me to be upset about the best player in franchise history continuing to help us win games.
Now…..would this mean we’d bring back Hill too?
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 30, 2012 11:32 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Bringing Hill back..
Would be dependent on how we draft this year. If we could get a player like Kidd-Gilchrist or Moultrie, then I would love to see Hill around for another year to help with the learning curve.
However, if we go a different route in the draft, and end up getting a decent SF in FA, I could see Hill just calling it a career.
by andrewmaxwell on Jan 30, 2012 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
I hope he can play until he's 42
…tying Kareem Abdul Jabbar’s age of retirement.
Who is better for $8-10 mil
Really who in the league is better the Steve Nash for that kind of money. Bring Nash back add a good rookie and a good free agent (Eric Gordon?) and we could be dangerous next year.
"dangerous team"
Please define that?
Even if we got Gordon, which clearly won’t happen, we would still be far away from even contending for a playoff spot. Yes we are that bad and the Western Conference is pretty deep. Teams like Houston, Sacramento, Minnesota and Golden State are bound to improve more than us even if we got Gordon which again will not happen.
The only team in the playoff race that might drop off sometime is San Antonio the rest is pretty young still.
If a dangerous team is a team threatening to break even record wise than maybe Eric Gordon would be enough but even that is unlikely as Steve Nash will also be yet another year older, plus in Grant Hill we would lose our 3rd best player.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
If we resign Nash and get Gordon, we would be a playoff team. He’d solve a lot of our problems.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
no way
You can’t honestly believe that, but it is moot anyway because we can’t sign Gordon.
We are much further away from being a playoff team and a borderline allstar shooting guard clearly is not enough when you look at the talent on other western conference teams. I thought this season was an eye-opener for everyone but guess not.
We are going to miss the playoffs for the 3rd time in 4 years and our future is the worst of all teams. We can’t count on any internal growth really. We can expect Morris to be better but we can also count on Hill and Nash to be less and less effective too.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
yes
What is so special about that trio?
Gordon misses 30 games per season, plus he is restricted and not really available anyway.
Gortat is a good center but limited in his own ways.
And Steve Nash will be 39 and on his last legs.
The Suns are not on the verge of makign the playoffs, we are far out of the picture right now and internal growth in our team is unlikely.
Lets take a look at Minnesota who are already infront of us anyway and have Rubio and Love who alone are better than anyone in your trio plus they still have Beasley and Derrick Williams and more tradeable assets.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
You just said Rubio
Is better than Nash. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
by Airwave on Jan 30, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions 9 recs
have you watched Rubio?
It is evident that he will surpass Steve Nash quickly as Nash gets older and Rubio more experienced.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
Rubio can't shoot
So I don’t think so. He will be (and already is) a very, very good passer though.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah he can't shoot
but he can pass, he can defend, he can play 40 minutes per game and is only getting better.. he is 2nd behind only Steve Nash in assists as a rookie coming from another country..
plus his jumper is not nearly as ugly as Rajon Rondo, it is bound to improve.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
Yes.
But you might have noticed that Nash is one of the best shooters of all time in addition to his passing abilities. As such, Rubio won’t surpass Nash as a player unless his shot drastically improves instantly.
I like Rubio, but he’s not Nash unless he can shoot.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 1:51 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I would say Jose Calderon is a better comparison for Rubio.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Agreed. or an extremely glorified Mark Jackson
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
Not one of the best
He is the best
@jatrex
is the Phoenix about to rise after burning or the ashes has been blown away
by jatrex4suns on Jan 30, 2012 2:56 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Boom! Preach!
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Rubio is Rubio
He does not have to be Nash to be great, Nash also isn’t the blueprint of a perfect player.
Nash was not the best shooter of all time when he entered the league.
Who is to say how great Rubio can be? He is a rookie and miles ahead of Nash at the same stage. Sky is the limit for the kid and he has good physical tools as well.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
WTF?
You are all over the place dude…if
Rubio is Rubiothen why the hell did you say
Rubio and Love who alone are better than anyoneand
It is evident that he will surpass Steve Nash quicklySeriously get off it. No one gives a shit about Rubio.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
by N8lol on Jan 30, 2012 10:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
For a truth teller
You sure speak alot of bs.
Rubio cannot shoot and cannot defend. He is 103 lbs of pure spanish suave. He can pass to a team full of scorers but nash still out does hin on a crappier squad.
Kill yourself man
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 30, 2012 2:02 PM MST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Uncalled for phxpurple...
We can disagree but we don’t go off on folks unnecessarily..
Let's do this...!
in this case, it was almost warranted...
i think TruthTelling is just a troll Laker/SA fan
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Did you read his fanpost?
It was one of the most insightful fanposts I’ve seen in a while. He has his opinions and we can’t be that disrespectful to him for expressing them. It’s common courtesy. So yes, Daryl’s right that it’s completely uncalled for for phxpurple to say such a thing.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
This
The post he made has generated great discussion. He is just very vocal about his opinions. Can’t fault him for that.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
He shows up out of the blue and all he is doing is arguing. Sure looks like a troll to me.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 6:07 PM MST up reply actions
I know there are signs, but...
I’m trying to be nice here _
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
No, he's not..
He has put forth arguments (Not always ones we agree with) for his case. Unless he acts like a troll, we act like good hosts…
Let's do this...!
He hasn't put forth any credible arguments yet for his ludicrous assertion that Rubio is better than Nash.
Not even Minnesota fans could seriously say that Rubio is a better point guard than Nash. Nash absolutely owns Rubio in every facet of the game at this point of their respective careers. Not just in terms of shooting and passing (let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, Rubio’s got lots of potential but Nash is still a far better passer at this point), but also leadership skills, decision-making, manipulating the defense, etc. Rubio’s the type of player who takes what the defense gives him, so IMO he’ll never average far better numbers than the 11 and 8 he’s getting right now. Nash has always been able to manipulate the defense by drawing double and even triple teams b/c of his ability to score, thus he can take whatever he wants. It doesn’t hurt that Nash is also a far better 1-on-1 player than Rubio.
And in regards to TruthTelling’s argument that Rubio is far better than Nash was as a rookie, remember that Nash played behind JKidd and Kevin Johnson as a rook. He wasn’t going to get tons of minutes, even though both Kidd and Johnson admitted Nash ate them both for lunch every practice. Rubio’s competition is Luke fucking Ridnour.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:27 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Good point about Nash
Being behind players early in his career. Rubio has been playing professionally for a while now and is the obvious starter. Their FO is letting him flourish and is trying to build around HIM not Love.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Dude, Rubio is the real deal
of course he isn’t better than stevie, but he’s going to be a great PG for a long time. Think 15ppg and like 10-11 Assists.
I think he will be good too
I am not going to throw out numbers for his career already since he is just a rookie, but I believe he will be a solid player in the league.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
he's already averaging 34 minutes per game
and is putting up just 11 and 8. even when nash was in dallas he was putting up better numbers
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:44 PM MST up reply actions
nearly 9 assists isn't good enough for ya?
lol he’s already near the top of the league in that category.
He plays on one of the highest-paced teams in the league
with some of the best finishers (Love, Beasley, Williams). I’d sure as hell take Nash’s 10 in 31 minutes over Rubio’s 8 in 34
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
he averages 8.8
Beasley’s missed a lot of games last season , and williams is averaging 8 points a game. they don’t have the greatest players in the world. and remember, he’s only 21
and actually, beasley doesn't really play when he is healthy lol
he just doesn’t fit in
that is hypocrite
bet you had Minnesota slotted in as one of the 3 worst teams in the West again this season yet because Rubio is doing well thez are suddenly a stacked team?
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:46 AM MST up reply actions
Same to you, buddy.
If the T-Wolves were 0-21, you wouldn’t be all over Rubio’s d*ck like you are now.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 31, 2012 5:03 AM MST up reply actions
but
they are not 0-21 and they are balling because Rubio is in the running for ROY.
that is the fact and your scenario is just hypothetical
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:03 AM MST up reply actions
So misinformed
So what Rubio is far better than Nash in his first couple of years in Dallas right now also.
I do not think you have watched Rubio play this year. His passing already is absolutely on the same level as Nash.
Yeah he might not be better right now for one game but overall he is better. Nash has already had problems the last 2 years where he broke down in the 2nd half of the season.
And besides we were talking about this in REGARDS TO NEXT SEASON. There is no doubt in my mind at all that by the middle of next season Rubio will have taken over the label of best true PG from Steve.
Also he averages 11.4ppg 4.7rpg 8.9apg 2.2spg in 34mpg. You lose all credibility when you say that Rubio will never average more than 11 and 8.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:45 AM MST up reply actions
Trust me, YOU lost all credibility from pretty much everyone on this site.
Rubio has played 1/3rd of a season and you are saying he’s better than a 2-time MVP, 7-time all star, and the greatest shooter/one of the most accomplished passers in league history. Take your Rubio fanboyism to Canis Hoopus.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 31, 2012 4:57 AM MST up reply actions
Michael Jordan
is also great but doesn’t mean that Kobe is not better right now. Nash is declining, Rubio is rising.
I said Rubio and Love are better than anynone the Suns would have in a hypothetical scenario next season when talking about a trio of Gortat 39yo Nash and Eric Gordon.
If you want to believe that Nash will still be better over the course of a full season next year than Rubio that is fine. I am pretty sure the vast majority of NBA fans will have a different opinion.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:08 AM MST up reply actions
He eventually will surpass him as their careers are on opposing trajectories
But I don’t think it will be “soon”
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Soon for me is like months to a season
in 2 yrs Rubio will def be an All-NBA PG IMO
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I doubt Rubio will average much more than what he's getting now.
You need to be able to put pressure on the defense with your scoring if you want to be a great point guard. Even though Rondo can’t shoot, he can still finish at the rim, and Kidd always had that 3-pointer. Rubio’s got nothing to keep the defense honest
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:29 PM MST up reply actions
He'll get there...give him time...
It’s easy to pan players early in the careers as they are still developing. Give him a few years and then we’ll make an assessment…
Let's do this...!
He’s 21 and already one of the best passers in the game and very good defender.
I don’t think he’ll end up better than Nash but I’m certainly not going to rule it out yet.
The real question is, is he better than Steph Curry and I think the answer there is YES.
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 4:38 PM MST up reply actions
Better than Stephon Curry right now...?
Sorry, Seth, I don’t agree. A few years yes, but not right now…
Let's do this...!
he controls the game much better than Curry does
he’s very nash -like in terms of controlling the pace of the game. He’s going to be very good
True, Curry just doesn't have the court vision of a pure point guard that both Rubio and Nash have.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
No doubt..
But he doesn’t have a light-consuming, space-time warping black hole playing next to him either…
Let's do this...!
I have to agree
with Daryl. Curry is a much much better shooter and overall offensive player. If not for a ball dominating Monta Curry would be 20+ and 8 assists.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
He may be better than Steph Curry
But I would like to see Curry on a team that does not have someone like a Monta Ellis on the roster. I think Rubio is in a better situation for himself, in a place where the team is being build around his assets. The same cannot be said for Curry (yet). If they get rid of Ellis, or he goes to another team, then I think we will really see what he can do.
He needs to stay healthy though!
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Yeah I have
He has very good passing ability but he is too undersized to be a very good defender. There are some big PGs in the league and they will abuse him. He also cannot shoot very well. Not to say he cannot improve but you are comparing him to one of the best shots in NBA history. Nash is also one of the best FT shooters in NBA history.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Undersized?
Rubio is one of the biggest/longest PGs in the entire NBA..
He is 6’4 for crying out loud, how in the world is that undersized?
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
He has one inch on Nash
According to NBA. And also only outweighs him by 1 pound. I consider Nash undersized, and Rubio is very thin.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
nba.com* 2 pounds*
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Nash
But Steve Nash is like 6’2 at most and that is absolutely generous.
I don’t even need measurements to see that Rubio is
1. much taller than Steve Nash
2. considerably heavier..
I have watched Rubio in europe for years and size is absolutely no issue with Rubio, he is actually a beast at his position. He is an explosive jumper but he is fricking tall for a PG.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
kidd and rubio
http://cbsdallas.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/136325813.jpg
check for instance, and rubio stands in the background
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
another example
nash and david stern
http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/steve_nash_david_stern.jpg
rubio and david stern (this was 2 years ago and he was just 18.
http://bi08.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ricky-rubio-draft-night.jpg
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
He is still thin
He of course has time to bulk up. Either way you are just assuming he progresses perfectly. You are saying he is better than one of the greatest PGs of all time already. That is ludicrous.
He may turn out to have a great career but I do not expect to see him shooting anywhere near Nash’s level. He can hope to be on par with passing and better defensively.
I would hope he surpasses Nash “quickly” (in about 2 seasons) because the man is 38 years old, he will be declining inevitably. He was taken as such a high draft pick to be a great player so that is expected of him.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
nearly 38*
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
People also seem to forget that Steve Nash tries on defense.
He’s not great at it but that’s because he doesn’t have the lateral quickness. However, he still does his best to stay in front of his man. He’s 38 years old and having him chase around young PGs in their 20s is definitely not going to make him look like a great defender.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
I agree wholeheartedly.
And it’s been known for a while now that Nash plays great position defense, Gentry says he’s always at the right place at the right time. Hence his propensity to draw offensive fouls. The only thing Rubio has going for him on defense is shooting the passing lanes
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 4:49 PM MST up reply actions
Rubio is fun to watch but if you’re gonna compare him to Nash it pretty much stops at Assists. Rubio still has to grow and prove himself. After all I’m pretty sure his sophmore year in the NBA is gonna tell it all. Whether he’ll truely make it or break it…. Brandon Jennings had a good rookie season too in Milwakee. Not so hot after that…..Just saying.
by FourHorseman on Jan 31, 2012 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
52 games of Gordon as a starting 2 is a lot better than 82 games of a Jared Dudley/Shannon Brown/Michael Redd/Ronnie Price combo.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 2:10 PM MST up reply actions
Flagged.
"I'm a nobody." - Steve Nash in 1997
by PHXSunsRunNGun on Jan 30, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
look how many other teams have a solid trio and arent making the playoffs
golden state, Wolves, Kings, Rockets etc…
If we get gordon
Others will follow.
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 30, 2012 1:59 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Isn't this what you're advocating?
If a dangerous team is a team threatening to break even record wise
Dumping Nash and opting for the Sacramento, Golden State, Minnesota route?
BAMF goes HAM.
Well
Minnesota is miles ahead of us right now, they are better than us already and have by far the best player among the two teams in Kevin Love and actually have allstar caliber young talent on their team.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
By miles,
do you mean a game and a half?
BAMF goes HAM.
by brian13 on Jan 30, 2012 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
record only tells half the story
watch a minnesota game and you will understand…
the Suns are actually lucky to have the record they currently have we played Chicago without Rose, New Orleans without Gordon, Boston without Rondo, San Antonio without Ginobili, Dallas without Nowitzki… aside from the game we beat Portland when they were on back to backs all of our wins were absolutely ugly and at the same time we got absolutely hammered several times while also losing to Cleveland, New Orleans or New Jersey at home.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
Minnesota is really good
they just can’t find a way to win, watch em they are exciting!
ya i'm kind of a fan
Rubio’s a magician out there!
Couldn't agree more...
Can anyone name any other marquee point guard that Phoenix could realistically sign for anywhere close to $8-10 million a year?
Rebuilding with Steve Nash at the helm makes a lot more sense than rebuilding without him, if given the choice. Nash is still leading the league in assists with a rag-tag crew of misfits, other than Gortat and Hill.
If we could sign two more co-stars to add to this team going forward along with Nash and Gortat, plus a high first round draft pick next season, we could very well be right back in the midst of contention.
The only argument against Nash is his age, and this is the same argument that people have had against him for the last four years, yet he continues to play at as high a level as ever. Is anyone still willing to bet against Nash? I’m not.
by 7footer on Jan 30, 2012 12:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
co stars
there are no such players available, basically you are advocating for the Suns to turn into the Detroit Pistons and sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueava just so we can live through another mediocre year.
The Suns need to hit rock bottom sometime or they will never get back up to contender status. Keeping Steve Nash does nothing except for some ethical value maybe.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagee
If we resign Nash, then we will already have one superstar and one borderline all-star player in Gortat. Nash alone is already better than Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva combined, so turning into the Pistons is not a legitimate concern in that respect.
Conventional wisdom says that a team needs three star players to be a legit contender, unless you have at least one superstar and some very nice supporting talent. The Mavs last year are a good example of this. The Bulls are another.
Nash is a two-time MVP who is still putting up similar numbers even without the same level of talent surrounding him. I would definitely place him in the very exclusive superstar category that includes very few others (Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Rose, Durant, Paul). There are other stars in the league that can win games for their teams, but these players are at the core of their teams and can put their team on their backs night in and night out, and have done so consistently.
With Nash at the core of our team, plus Gortat who is a top 5 center in my opinion, we already have the beginnings of a very good line-up. There simply isn’t any other point guard in the league who we could sign, other than Deron Williams, who could match what Nash can do for our team. If we could add two more legit co-star type players and also hit on an early first round draft pick next season we could be in very good shape.
Your argument is that there are no such co-stars available…I strongly disagree. Here is a list of the players who were not extended by their teams and who will be unrestricted or restricted free agents going into next season, who I think the Suns could realistically go after:
Eric Gordon
O.J. Mayo
Courtney Lee
Nicholas Batum
Chase Buddinger
Michael Beasley
Ryan Anderson
There are dozens of other players who are stars or could be considered valuable role players as well, but these are all players who I think could help improve this team in a big way and who the Suns would realistically look at signing…and this is without adding names like Deron Williams or Dwight Howard who I don’t believe are viable options.
If the Suns could get two or maybe three of these players in the off-season to pair with Nash and Gortat, and we certainly have the money to do it, then we could be looking at an entirely different outlook next season.
by 7footer on Jan 30, 2012 12:57 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
all players you listed
are restricted free agents, so tell me why their teams would not match any offer?
Nash at 39 is far from a superstar, he is a borderline allstar right now and in past seasons has visibly broken down after the allstar game.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
plus
aside from Gordon all those players are role players and far from “co-stars”.
39 year old Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat and any of those is clearly not enough. You have no clear cut allstar caliber player, not to mention franchise player, that is not enough in the Wester Conference when you look at teams like Utah, the Clippers, the Lakers, Portland etc etc
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Because teams can't re-sign everyone...
and there are plenty of other free agents that I didn’t list that other teams will be targeting.
I only listed players I thought Phoenix would go after, but there are plenty of other free agents that other teams may want to spend money of that will limit their ability to sign restricted free agents.
Here’s a list of other players that teams will be interested in and who will help soak up a lot of that available cap room:
Deron Williams
Dwight Howard
Roy Hibbert
Brook Lopez
Raymond Felton
Jason Terry
Gerald Wallace
These are all players who I believe will command double digit salaries and help soak up a lot of the cap space that other competing teams will have to spend. There are of course dozens of others that will also get maid somewhere around the MLE that I didn’t mention who will also help tie up available cap room.
Not to mention, players like OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, Michael Beasley, Ryan Anderson, and Nicholas Batum have all but been told they will not be re-signed by their current teams for various reasons. The Suns will certainly be in the mix for the majority of the players I mentioned in my first post, and have one of the deepest payrolls to lure them in with.
by 7footer on Jan 30, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Jason Terry, Raymond Felton, Gerald Wallace...
really?
Felton is a role player and plays the same position as Nash who you want to keep around. Wallace and Terry are nearing the end of their careers fast.
Roy Hibbert is restricted and Indiana will match any offer, clearly.
Brook Lopez is the only realistic and talented long term option but why would he come to the team that is going to shop his twin brother now and you want to keep Gortat at center too I assume.
Not to mention, players like OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, Michael Beasley, Ryan Anderson, and Nicholas Batum have all but been told they will not be re-signed by their current teams for various reasons.
Simply not true, Memphis and Portland were working on extensions for Mayo and Batum for example. Not signing them means nothing, only means that the players think they can get more by signing an offer sheet that their teams will then match.
Courtney Lee is a backup and nothing more, not even starter material.
Of all the players you mentioned only Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Roy Gibbert and Brook Lopez are worthwhile signings and all unrealistic.
Ther others are Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueava type desperation signings.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
Those players aren't for us...
I was showing you the players I purposefully omitted from my initial post because the Suns would not go after them or have a realistic shot at acquiring them. I mentioned these players because other teams will be spending their money on them and it will decrease the cap room for teams who will be competing for the players we want…you follow?
You must have missed this paragraph
I only listed players I thought Phoenix would go after, but there are plenty of other free agents that other teams may want to spend money of that will limit their ability to sign restricted free agents.
7f’s 2nd post was players that other teams would be interested in.
BAMF goes HAM.
Agree with 7footer
Lee is more than a bench player. He is a younger Raja, who started and did pretty well for us. Although, we will need a scorer to go with him since he is not the go-to type of SG.
Mayo will not be matched. They don’t have the luxury of keeping him since they spent a ton on Gasol/Gay/Z-Bo/Conley.
Felton is not a role player. He did very well with high tempo teams like NY and Denver. He’s a good player who can play the 1 or 2.
Batum and Anderson are both good players, but I wouldn’t throw too much money at them. Anderson could turn into Frye 2.0. Batum is not much more than a role player, but he does have more talent than most of our team now.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
Raja Bell
is the epitome of a career bench player in the NBA.
In his prime which lasted about 1 1/2 season he was a starter for the Suns and is generally incredibly overrated by the Suns fan base compared to how other teams fans regard him.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:31 PM MST up reply actions
Hmmm
So having someone who can guard Kobe/Durant/Wade etc. is not needed to win a championshiip. Interesting…
OKC starts Thabo over Harden for a reason. They must not be as smart as you.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
yet
Harden plays 30mpg and Sefolosha merele 20mpg.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
oh yea...
Why else would kobe send a helicopter out to recruit him in the offseason..he does that for all over rated career bench players he likes…
I hear he did that for sasha vujachic too but they wouldn’t let maria’s yappy dog get on so he had to drive..
being a bench player
is nothing negative and that is still something teams need but Raja Bell really was a career bench player overall and only in his prime barely starter material.
Not to mention that Courney Lee has long ways to go before getting to that level in the first place and at 27 this year is not as young as you would think.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
As soon as he learned how to shoot he was a good 4rth or 5th starter from 04-05 - 08-09
The guy made an All-NBA defensive team twice and should have made that team in 05-06 as well. I liked his personality and his heart. They guy spoke up and was tough. He was the bad guy on our nice guy team.
Don't trade Dudley!
Barely starter material?
I don’t think you watched Bell play while he was in Phoenix.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
Btaum has more upside as well
He also would be the best scoring SF on our team. Not sayong much but still. Younger than hill. More athletic than duds. Better shooter than chilly
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 30, 2012 2:13 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Definitely an upgrade
(not saying much though)
worth $5-8 million, but not much more. He can’t be our 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th) best player if we want to win a championship.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
Idk people dont like oj mayo
We need a shooter scorer who can defend. Id say forget gordon and go out mayo wallace/batum(they can’t keep both) and then draft whatever position of need is left or the best star around in the draft when its out picj
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 30, 2012 2:06 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
no one here would bet against nash, but would you bet we make the playoffs this year?
2 points brought up over the last few days stand out: 1) dramatically diminished draft status by finishing in 10-12 territory out West for the next 2-3 years and 2) very few players outside Gortat to trade for a clear upgrade in talent. I’ll echo something Wil wrote a few weeks ago
The Suns evidently have a lot of dough to spend next year, but there’s no guarantee that whatever happens this off season is going turn the Suns into the machine we’re used to seeing. Who’s the PG of the future?…[Nash’s] still great, but he’s not going to last carrying a team like this on his back for 30+ minutes a game ever night out. And the true rebuild only comes when he is gone or not the saving grace of the team.
by ninecharacters on Jan 30, 2012 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
No, we're not built for the playoffs this year...
But with the right moves we could certainly get to that level again as early as next season.
try be honest to yourself
no free agent that we can get even if we spend all of our money will turn around this team so quickly in a deep and talented western conference.
It is not like we are just of making the playoffs and the talent that is available really is not that type of talent that can make a big impact.
That is the same talk I heard before this season when a majority of Suns fans here and on other boards were saying this team would still be good enough to fight for homecourt advantage. Lets please be realistic. Following this season we missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and 2 of our best 3 players will be close to 39 and 41.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
based on what we see now that's a very generous timetable
if it played out as you describe, though, we’d still probably get bounced in the first round. Aside from Gordon, where’s the game-changing FA to add to a Nash-led squad? And Gordon’s restricted. (Hornets and Pacers seem to have the inside track.) If we had even one up-and-coming player who did not depend on Nash’s game to score, I’d probably take your side on this one.
by ninecharacters on Jan 30, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
true
the Suns situation as it is in the past 2 years is the worst it has ever been since the drug scandal in the 80s.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
Fair question
Aside from Gordon, where’s the game-changing FA to add to a Nash-led squad?
If we had even one up-and-coming player who did not depend on Nash’s game to score, I’d probably take your side on this one.
I actually agree that finding a player who can create their own shot without needing Nash to feed them is a big priority. Right now we basically have Grant Hill and that’s it.
This is why I love O.J. Mayo for us. Mayo is a bona fide scorer who can create his own shot off the dribble and can also be a spot-up shooter. He’s improved drastically over the last two seasons and is a player who I believe could really be a “game-changer” for our team. Courtney Lee is another option in this regard, and I think he would be a good fit here as well.
Michael Beasley is another player who I think is undervalued because of his off the court antics. He’s a versatile player who can play the 3 and 4 and create his own shot better than any of the other forwards in the coming free agency. He’s another player who could take over the leading scorer role on this team.
Not to mention, while I generally don’t like depending on players coming fresh out of the draft to make an immediate impact, there are a couple of players who are capable of doing so in my opinion. If we drafted either Harrison Barnes or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist with our first round pick then I think either of these two players could come in and contribute right away. Both of these players are also able to score independently.
I guess what I’m getting at is there are multiple ways to address the needs of this team in the coming season, and while it would still take a little luck to get our team to the point where it would be ready for a deep run into the playoffs immediately, I think that keeping Steve Nash would only help in this regard and would definitely improve our chances of contending over the next couple of seasons.
As for myself
I don’t mind this plan as long as Steve Nash isn’t our primary target. I think he’d be willing to wait it out and see what we would do before making a decision of who to sign with.
Don't trade Dudley!
True
I am more thinking we need to be bringing in players who can succeed outside of just a Nash offense because he won’t be around for our future.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
That's an excellent point as well...
While Nash can certainly be our franchise player for the duration of the time he’s here, it would be foolish to build around him for the future. There are still plenty of players we can target who can be successful in a Nash-led offense but who could also adjust to playing without him in a few years.
by all accounts
judging by past actions the Suns have no interest in Mayo and Beasley. The rumors about them were debunked ad nauseum on the radio because apparently the Suns would not take one of them for free because of their baggage.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:53 PM MST up reply actions
Mayo and Batum on reasonable contracts
we could do a lot worse, and still be able to make a move in 2013. Pass on Beasley, he’s a leading scorer for all the wrong reasons. (50 Players That Really Shouldn’t Shoot That Much)
For the current team “game-changing” = good enough to play in the WC Semis. Does adding Mayo and Batum/Beasley take this team past the 1st rd? In a stacked WC we’re talking about a lot of luck required. Let’s not convince ourselves the sequel to 2010 is being written anytime soon. At this point just go for the full rebuild and trust we can evaluate talent and then make moves at the right time. The perennial losing organizations don’t do both of those and so earn a reputation for futility. It’s bleak, yes, but we are nowhere close to futile.
by ninecharacters on Jan 30, 2012 5:03 PM MST up reply actions
A five of
Nash, Mayo, Budinger, Beasley, and Gortat sounds pretty good right now. That, with a bench of drafted pg(k marshall?), dudley, morris, and frye would make us a team worth watching. Not sure how realistic it is for us to sign three solid free agents + Nash though
Yes. Truth.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Exactly, EBR…and good question. Probably either back on the team or in the office.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
It depends on whether or not Hill plans on retiring.
But since guys like Ray Allen and KG are available, I might consider spending our money on them if they’re up for grabs. They may be old, but they can still play for a couple of years.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
KG is on his last legs...literally..
And Ray Allen isn’t that far behind…I think we can spend our money more wisely elsewhere…
Let's do this...!
Yeah, please no more old guys.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 30, 2012 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed on that.
But if the pickings are slim, would throwing 1-2 year offers at vets for a desperation championship run be so bad?
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
I would throw something at Allen
But KG, not so much. He is always hurt and looks old. And I don’t like him at all haha.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Really though
a team of Nash, Allen, Hill, KG, and Duncan…sign them all to 1-2 year deals. We’d probably go 15 games before our whole starting 5 was injured for the year, but don’t tell me that team wouldn’t be intriguing
If that starting lineup was in its prime, it would've been a rosterbator's dream come true.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
This makes no sense at all..
Keeping Nash even longer will just keep us in the NBA’s no mans land forever.
How can you not understand that being just outside of the playoffs is by far the worst position to be in. It’s ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
And stop it about Eric Gordon, the Hornets will match any offers plus Gordon misses 30 games per season anyway.
It might be selfish of me, but I do like that Nash is probably not going anywhere.
The problem with the idea of trading Nash is that, Nash isn’t a young buck anymore, and while he still has gas in the tank, the Suns will only get pennys on the dollar for him because (A) he’s older than most franchise stars so he’s not a player teams can build around in the long term, and (B) the Suns would have to be desperate to move him, and desperation breeds contempt, so there’s almost no chance a team would trade anything of equal value for Nash.
I’m personally not a huge fan of the NBA draft, at least not in terms of considering draft picks “trade value”, because all sports drafts are essentially a crapshoot. That said, if Nash can hang on for another year or three, the Suns could conceivably play poorly enough where they get a decent lottery pick this year and possibly pick up a good enough player to get the team back into the playoffs in a year or two.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
the nba is different
Name one team in the NBA that is not build upon their draft success, you simply can’t find one.
Unlike the NFL, the NBA is dominated by individual star players. A franchise player makes all the difference in the world but the only realistic way to acquire one is in the draft, at the top of the draft.
Which is also a great place to be acquiring overpaid busts.
Shaun Livingston, Eddy Curry, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Marvin Williams, Adam Morrison, Stromile Swift, Jay Williams, Hasheem Thabeet, Sheldon Williams, Marcus Fizer, Greg Oden, Darko Milicic… And that’s only counting top five picks in the last ten years.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Yeah. It’s amazing with all the scouts, how often they are completely wrong. Most often.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
does not prove anything
it only proves that teams that draft poorly are usually bad teams.
Greg Oden was going to be a franchise player only derailed by injuries so he is a bad example anyway.
Shaun Livingston was not a bust either same for Jay Williams.
Plus they only got overpaid for the most part in free agency and not through the draft.
Again, name one team that has not build their current success upon their drafts.
That drafting doesn’t give you a 100% chance is really irrelevant because it still gives you a much much higher probabilty of signing a franchise player.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:31 PM MST up reply actions
Miami, Boston, Dallas, Memphis, Portland, Denver, Just to name a few
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
We've don't have a Championship and we've been trying the free agency/trade way for years
I think it’s time we try the draft way
Don't trade Dudley!
wrong wrong wrong
Miami – Drafted Dwayne Wade which is the foundation on how they were able to get Lebron and Bosh to come there in an historically unique FA situation.
Dallas – Drafted Dirk Nowitzki and continually added good players with their draft picks over the years.
Memphis – Drafted Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, OJ Mayo, Darrell Arthur and while they technically did not draft Marc Gasol they acquired him before he ever played in the NBA and who did they trade for him? Pau Gasol who they drafted.
Boston – Boston drafted Pierce and Rondo their 2 best players currently. How did they acquire KG? Oh yes they drafted Al Jefferson that is how. How did they acquire Ray Allen? By having the #5 pick and dealing it for Ray.
Portland – You can’t be serious here. LaMarcus Aldridge is their franchise player and they drafted him. They also drafted Batum and in the past Fernandez and they are missing Roy and Oden because of injuries and drafted them and would be even better with them.
Denver – Drafted Nene, drafted Ty Lawson who are 2 of their top 3 players and they drafted Melo who they sold for LOADS of talent
so yeah wrong, wrong and wrong.. it always starts with the draft. If you shut yourself out from the draft you find yourself where the Suns are. Terrible and without any assets on the roster other than Gortat.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Ok
If you are going to link every drafted player to a trade and vice versa then every team could account for every thing because of the people they drafted. That is ludicrous.
Of Miami’s big three only one is drafted. Recent draft picks are Norris Cole and Chalmers. Wade, Cole, Chalmers makes for a lotto team
Dallas: Drafted Dirk. Other Draftees making a contribution right now. Beubois. Almost everyone else is from a trade or free agency
Memphis: Gasil was a trade. Randolph from free agency. Your telling me that Gay, Conley, Mayo, and Arthur would make a great up and coming team. Be serious
Boston. Pierce and Rondo without Allen and KG the last few years. Might make the playoffs but not a contender.
Portland: Wallace, Camby, Matthews, Felton. 4 of their 5 starters are not their own draft picks.
Denver: Nene and Lawson. Finals here we come. Gallo, Chandler, Miller. Trades/FA
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
your point?
I never said that there team is only built by draft picks but the foundation of their teams is totally build on that either directly or by using assets they acquired in the draft to get good players in trades.
The Suns have 2 players they drafted. They have less home-grown talent on the roster than anyone in the NBA and rightfully so they have no tradeable assets except for Gortat.
How can you even try to dispute Portland, Dallas or Miami. All those teams have A FRANCHISE CALIBER player that they drafted that is the most important thing in the NBA to have a player of that caliber.
Portland would be a strong finals contender if they weren’t so unlucky with Roy and Oden too.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
I get your point
mostly. You just sounded so extreme.
Really, what we are looking at is player evaluations. Just watched Moneyball (great movie BTW). They figured a new method of evaluating talent and it revolutionized an entire sport.
Regardless of draft/trades/FA we need someone who can evaluate talent and value. Talent to win, and the value for Sarver. If you can add players for a value then it does not matter where you get them from.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
I agree
largely with Portland, but we also knew he was fragile before he was drafted so I would not say unlucky. Imagine Portland with Derrick Rose right now instead. Crazy good.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
which is
the same thing as drafting him, since we drafted him for Boston.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
Dallas is entirely built through trades and free agents. They didn’t even draft Dirk.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 2:14 PM MST up reply actions
of course they drafted..
Dirk, how can you suggest otherwise? They had a deal setup with Milwaukee on draft day, they were the ones drafting Dirk Nowitzki all along. Everything else is just non-sense.
Dirk Nowitzki never played for another team nor was he on anyones roster at any point where he could have played for that team even in summer league other than the Mavs.
Saying the Mavs did not draft Dirk Nowitzki is like saying the Suns did not draft Barbosa or Dragic. Total non-sense.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
it's not total nonsense at all
Regardless if they had a deal set in place and a team picked a player for them, they still had to have the pieces to set up such a deal.
Total nonsense would be saying the Heat were built through the draft when two of their top three players came via free agency.
Hell, even if we count Dirk as a Mavs draft pick it is completely outrageous to claim they built their championship team through the draft.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 11:17 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
..
they build their team around Dirk who they got in the draft so yeah the draft was the essential thing for them to get Dirk…
Your argument holds no water as Dallas swapped draft picks on draft night to get Dirk, so yeah even the pieces to set up such a deal where draft related.
If Miami does not draft a franchise caliber player like Wade, they would have never been able to get Lebron and Bosh in a unique free agent situation.
Also notice how Wade as the main player lead them to a championship before that and who are their main role players? Haslem, Cole and Chalmers.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:51 AM MST up reply actions
Your argument holds no water
Ha! Dallas has one player they drafted (Dirk) and everyone else was a trade. I think we can safely say they build through the not-draft.
who are their main role players? Haslem, Cole and Chalmers.
Actually, the non-superfreinds are:
- Haslem – Rookie Free agent
- Miller – MLE
- Joel Anthony – Rookie Free agent,
- Cole – 1st rounder
- Chalmers 2nd rounder
- Shane Battier – FA
- James Jones – FA
They have 3 picks out of the 10 players with the most minutes per game.
And Dallas? Two picks out of ten
Conclusion: “Argument holds water” is
and?
their franchise players are both drafted that is how they got where they are.
if the Suns had a franchise player they could go the free agent route but they do not have one, they need to find someone worth building around first and that can only realistically happen in the draft
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:06 AM MST up reply actions
it all starts with a star...
and you usually have to draft that guy.
plus, we aren’t like Miami or Dallas, we can’t build a team that way.
I love how stating a fact is nonsense to you.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 11:18 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Nonsense == fact. Is this why evolution is so challenged in the USA?
Eddy curry wasnt a bust
He just got fat
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Jan 30, 2012 2:16 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Miami, Lakers, NY, Boston
pretty sure that besides Wade, every star on those teams was acquired through trade or FA.
really?
The Lakers drafted Bynum and had a pre-arranged draft day deal for Kobe essentially they drafted him too.
The Celtics did not draft Rajon Rondo? They did not draft Paul Pierce? They did not draft Al Jefferson, Kendrick Perkins and had another #5 pick to get those other guys in the first place?
New York? They are not even a good team tells you enough you need to know. They were a better team last year with their draft picks Gallinari and Chandler before they gave up the farm for Carmelo.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
LOL
New York isn’t a good team? ALL of NY’s success over the last two seasons are because of non-drafted players. Boom. Rule is broken.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
haha
New York is 7-13 and way under .500 since they traded for Carmelo, try again..
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 AM MST up reply actions
Your whole argument is vacuous.
Name one team in the NBA that is not build upon their draft success
What does this mean? Several people have answered you with teams and you have side-stepped logic in order to preserve your opinion. If you want to interpret “build” and “draft success” as being any move made with draft pieces, or any FO movement that uses draft pieces either through trade or enticement then your position is ridiculously simplistic. Yes, teams are built on the draft….in fact EVERY team is built on the draft because that is where every player comes from.
As for New York: you are wrong in two counts.
1) New York’s non-drafted talent consists of Carmelo Antony, Amare Stoudemire, and Tyson Chandler. For your argument to have any sway you must recognize this.
2) Since acquiring Amare Stoudemire NY has gone from 29-53 (09-10) to 42-40 (10-11). That is a positive gain and, even under your stupidly subjective rules, suggests that NY is a “good” team (a definition which, btw, was not in your original statement). The Knicks are 7-13 THIS YEAR, not since acquiring Camelo Anthony.
You need to relax kid. I know its your first day and all, but you dont know everything and even if you did the way you are coming across, no one would care.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
New York
is not a good team they are 7-13. I was looking only at teams above .500 like you can read in my blog.
And don’t call me kid when you do not know what you are talking about. The Knicks last year were also BELOW .500 after the trade for Carmelo Anthony.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 7:49 AM MST up reply actions
Wrong.
The Knicks were 14-10 in the regular season after CA went to the team. Try again.
And I will call you a kid all I want….
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
also
good was part of my original statement, I wrote that in my block and if you read what I wrote right here I said “build their success”.
Being 7-13 this year and 20-30 or something overall since trading for Carmelo is not “success”. The Knicks are an utter failure.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 7:51 AM MST up reply actions
But it shouldnt matter about Carmelo...
you still fail to recognize that the Knicks went from really bad in 09-10 to good in 10-11 with people that were NOT DRAFTED BY THEM. Amare was NOT DRAFTED BY THE KNICKS. Thus I have appropriately answered you comment: the Knicks are a team that became good through trades, not their draft pick.
You can talk about the Knicks current record all you want but all the woes in the world right now won’t mean anything if they pull it together and make the playoffs and then your theory will be shit.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
and how did the knicks get
Anthony? Traded Wilson Chandler and Danilo Galinari and were actually a better team with them before.
Besides the only reason they were able to get a player like Amare was because he had huge injury concerns otherwise he would still be in Phoenix.
And still the Knicks are not a good team.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 1:22 PM MST up reply actions
I agree
with your point, but Kobe was drafted by the Lakers. Those other teams. Yeah, pretty build through deals not the draft.
Fan of the TEAM not a player.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 30, 2012 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
The Lakers come to mind...
Trading for Kobe
Trading for Shaq
Trading for Gasol
Trading for Odom
Signing Derek Fisher
All very shrewd moves at their respective times to prop the Lakers up for success…
Let's do this...!
trade him wtf
the point of the NBA is to win championships right? explain to me how keep nash for the next year or two gets us closer to that?
b/c the point of the NBA isn’t to win championships
Case in point, the Suns have zero championships but haven’t exactly been a failure.
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
that is your point of view
but almost all long time Suns fans that I know since the mid 90s would gladly trade 5 great seasons for 5 sucky seasons in exchange for 1 championship.
You can’t believe that aiming for 48 wins every season with no legitimate chance to win it all should be the goal of a NBA franchise. In the end what matters is to win it all. I believe we were good enough in some years and just unlucky.
But like I mentioned in my blog entry it is not coincidence that the Suns never had a #1 pick and never won a championship. In fact the Suns only had like 3 top 5 picks in 40 years or so..
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
I would trade those seasons for a championship.
It is interesting how divided people are on that though. I like watching fun basketball and the Suns have given a lot of that to me – but I’m kind of tired of it just being fun and watching the team fall short.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 30, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn’t trade the SSOL era for a championship, let me be the first to say that. I don’t think that’s a loser mentality either, I genuinely think that era was more than a championship for me.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 1:24 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't trade 04-05 and 09-10
Those were good years where I felt like we went all in and gave it all we had and more.
Don't trade Dudley!
I love the Suns, but I too want a championship...
36 years of watching this team through thick and thin…I love them regardless and I definitely don’t feel like I “deserve” anything. I appreciate just being a fan. On the otherhand it would be nice to win it all just once. I wouldn’t mind this team to putting it all out in search of a Championship, whether Nash stays or goes..
Let's do this...!
06-07 was pretty damn good too.
That was probably our best shot at getting a title. If only Amare and Diaw hadn’t walked away from the bench…
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
The off-season leading up to it wasn't good
We traded draft picks, overpaid a couple role players and spent meaningless cash on guys like Jalen Rose and Marcus Banks. Plus, Coach D was made the GM and he shouldn’t have ever been GM. The team did everything they could, but the FO didn’t. The way that season ended was just too sad. It was still a good season, but I’d trade it for a Championship. Same with 05-06 and 07-08. Actually, 07-08 was a pretty bad year.
Don't trade Dudley!
Those first few games in 08-09 when Gentry came onboard made me feel like a kid on Christmas day.
He unwrapped the gift that was the Suns’ high octane offense and the team delivered back-to-back 140+ point performances that made me smile. If Amare hadn’t been injured, I think we would’ve qualified for the playoffs and make some noise.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 30, 2012 2:47 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally
There was even an article that made the front page of Yahoo saying, “THE SUNS ARE BACK!”. Those 140 point games were amazing. Had Amar’e just decided to stick with his goggles that injury could have been prevented. Oh well, he was warned. It’s just tough that it affected us.
Don't trade Dudley!
05/06 , 06/07 too IMO
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Every time I think I’d trade those years for one championship, I look at the Dbacks and decide what the Suns have is pretty good.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 1:57 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
plus having a sucky season isnt that bad, if theres positive rebuilding plan going on
I watch a lot of cavs games around here since i get the local feeds, very enteraining, this team is on its way. winning 48 games a year with the teams potential maxed out but not good enough to win a championship sucks. right now the suns are havin a sucky season, but the problem is there isnt really a plan for the future
Frankly, this whole line of thinking is moronic to begin with...
It is foolishly anachronistic to think about the past in valuated terms. While the outcome of those seasons is important and will be remembered by history, the journey through those seasons made us all the Suns fans that we are. It influences decisions by the FO and by the players and has a Romanticizing effect on fans. Conversely, the failures have a bittering effect. The only reason to “trade” the past for a different outcome is because it didn’t leave you in a place you wanted but that is part of the trip.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
b/c the point of theNBAPhoenix Suns isn’t to win championships
Fixed it for you.
Yeah, it’s a business, everyone wants to make lost of cash. However, many of these franchises also want to be the best. The Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, Bulls, Mavs and even the Knicks (despite their failures) have winner mentalities. I’m afraid the Phoenix Suns have a losers mentality. Most companies don’t just want to make money, they want to be better than their competition and win. A Championship isn’t everything, basketball isn’t everything, sports isn’t everything. In fact, it’s just a hobby to me.
However, if I’m going to have a hobby, I don’t want to be content with only making the playoffs and being a fun team to watch. That’s a losers mentality. Losers settle for less. I want my team to go all the way. Now on the other hand, don’t mistake what I’m saying for greed. Greed would be where the Lakers are at. They expect to win a championship every year and if they don’t, they whine and complain like losers. They want more and more and more. They are never satisfied.
I’m grateful that we’ve had more than some other franchises, but man, we got be better and do better. I am not satisfied with settling for less. What would satisfy me isn’t winning a Championship every year, but doing our best and more to get one.
Don't trade Dudley!
We have like the 4th best winning percentage of all the teams. We do not have a losers mentality. You all need to get real. All this talk of you suck if you don’t win a championship is ludicrous.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 6:15 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s an immature thought process and not how true fans roll.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 30, 2012 6:15 PM MST up reply actions
i just want one championship...
just one lol! and i’ll be happy
This franchise knows how to win enough to make money, but we don't know how to get a Championship
The evidence is there. I’m not asking for this team to win a Championship every year. I’m not asking for them to put a good team on the floor. I’m asking for them to put a great team on the floor. One that is capable of winning a title. If they come up short, oh well, at least they gave it all they had. Plus, there is always next year. I’ve just had the feeling for a while that our FO may only be satisfied with having a team that is good enough to make the playoffs and be entertaining. That’s not enough.
I may have been too blunt in my previous post, I apologize.
Don't trade Dudley!
The Suns have put many great teams on the floor.
Probably is that just because you build a great team, doesn’t mean you win the championship.
I don’t think in any way they’ve only tried to be good enough just to make money. They’ve tried to win championships, they just haven’t.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 11:20 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
I'm referring to these past couple years and 07-08.
That’s what I mean when I say, “for a while”.
Don't trade Dudley!
I hope this happens
This team is absolutely nothing without him. May as well keep him on and try and improve along the way, I’ve always felt that.
Eric Gordon, Batum…someone like McGee (though I don’t like his attitude, plus we already have Gortat), it’s not impossible the Suns can haul in players like this.
The way I see it now, the Suns are a car with an engine but no wheels or anything else. No point scrapping the engine for as much as possible if people are only offering chump change for it. Keep it, and try and build on it to improve the car, it’s worth more that way.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 12:29 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
unrealistic
Gordon, Batum and McGee are all restricted free agents. Why would their teams let them go unless the Suns massively overpay them?
I can't tell whether you think the Suns signing Eric Gordon is realistic or not.
Can you please clear that up for me?
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 30, 2012 12:49 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Just examples of the calibre of talent the Suns could get this summer. I do think it’s a somewhat pointless exercise arguing how realistic/unrealistic some of them are or aren’t, just throwing out some names.
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
Having said that
You need to be a hell of a pessimist to think the Suns can’t attract at least one of these pretty decent RFA’s. They’ll probably overpay in the process, but still…
by Toon Army Sun on Jan 30, 2012 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
"pretty decent"
That is the problem aside from Hibbert, Gordon and Lopez all those restricted players are role players.
Brook Lopez is the only restricted player that might really be available since New Jersey likely tries to get Dwight Howard.
If you overpay for players like OJ Mayo, Beasley or Batum you are more likely to make the situation worse that what it was before like the Detroit Pistons did.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
Batum is an extremely realistic option. He will not be back in Portland. He doesn’t want to be there and he’s not really wanted there.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 30, 2012 1:55 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm not for trading Steve Nash anymore
However, I am against re-signing him. Unless we get Eric Gordon or a true all-star or two to go with Nash this off season, then it’s pointless. It’d be like 2010-11 and this season all over again. I’d rather we be rebuilding than have those seasons. All were doing is postponing the rebuilding process and eventually we will suck for 4 years anyway. Resigning Nash is a bad move for the franchise going forward, unless they can make it meaningful and surround him with all-star players. I love Steve Nash, but we got to learn how to say goodbye.
Don't trade Dudley!
whats the point of not trading if u just wanna let him walk?
thats not smart, that means he plays this year and were gross, and we get nothing in return
Because he deserves loyalty even though we don't owe it to him
Let him finish out his contract and say goodbye to him in the summer. That’d be the best way to part ways.
Don't trade Dudley!
by Beavis 25 on Jan 30, 2012 12:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
if we make it clear we dont want him
what would be better for him… make him sufffer with this gross team the rest of the year with no chance, or send him to a contender and give him a shot?
plus this is a business
steve nash is not bigger than the suns, if the best move is to move on and get what u can get, u gotta do it
I've given my reason and I don't expect anyone to agree with it
Don't trade Dudley!
by Beavis 25 on Jan 30, 2012 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I DO!!! FUCK YES!
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
If
IF the best move – yes. But IF the best move is to keep him, what then?
I get what you're saying ,
but did you ever think we might be doing Nash a favor? I mean other than his kids, why would he want to stay with this team?
People keep comparing him to John Stockton because he never won a title, but this team is nowhere near as good as the Jazz were.
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
Fuck yes! +1000000
I have been saying this for over a year now…
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Sign him!
If we can throw that type of money at Childress and Hak then we should drool over the chance to give Steve that. Honestly unless a contender loses their point guard come playoff time the return for a Nash trade would be next to nothing. The guy is a machine and will most likely lead the league in dimes again this year. It would be silly not to keep him. I’m more fond of keeping Nash and trying to pick up some picks through some trades. This draft is very stacked and there will be talent (maybe not elite) all the way through the first round. A couple solid picks and maybe the FO can pull off some descent signings. We will have the cash to spend and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some type of trade in the near future. We are going down a dark road without high beams now but with Nash at least we have headlights
There are strong feelings on both sides of this discussion which is a great thing…please keep it civil as both sides have merit.
I obviously lean towards keeping Nash but am not totally opposed to blowing it and going the draft route although if that’s the plan, it should be more than Nash that goes. All in, as they say.
Added a poll b/c a lot of times on these things there’s a silent majority not heard in the comments.
Twitter me at: @sethpo
would be nice
to have an option of “trade him for a reasonable package” eg not picking up additional salary commitment and getting a mid first round pick or a couple later ones.
Trading him for anything or trading him only in a very good deal seem to be too extreme choices to me.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
very true but on polls I like to limit the options and force people on the fence to lean one way or the other
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
and personal pleasure?
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
lol
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
Ha! I love how the only comment I see from Eut is this laugh....cracks me up...
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
WOW
Lets just be mediocre for the next three years so we can sell a few more tickets! Then we can start the rebuilding phase in 2015! Which would give us a chance at the title in 2021! WOOOO!!!
I’m so happy Robert Sarver is our owner!!!!!!!
"Clearly the Brewers didn't realize that going into Beast Mode raised their testosterone levels."
by tcyoung
I don't like the idea of keeping him
I think we should just part ways and start the rebuilding process as soon as possible. I’m hopeful they can find good players and sorround him with talent but I’m almost certain they won’t. On the other hand, this is a business, and if the Suns are getting awful offers for him then they should stay put.
I like Nash, he’s by far my favorite player but all this loyalty talk and that we owe him and all that BS…. He’s getting paid millions and I repeat MILLIONS of dollars to play a game. He signed a contract and agreed to stay. No one forced him to stay.
If the reight deal comes along then go for it but if we are going to get nothing in return… what would you do as a business owner?
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
I agree with you about letting him go
but I cannot convince myself that this Organization (Sarver) will do that.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
I say if we sign him for 2 more years
we try to get Jimmer Fredette from Sacramento where his growth is being stunted. Jimmer is as close to the perfect replacement for Nash as we’re going to get and very able facilitator of the offense when he’s given the ability to do so.
With ball hawks like Evans, Cousins, Salmons, Thornton, Outlaw and the likes – Jimmer has little opportunity to play the game to his strengths – and playing to his particular strengths is the only way he can be productive at the NBA level.
Here in Phoenix he would be able to play to his strengths
But you all know my love for the Jimmer already…
Maybe we could get another piece from Sac the trade…
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
Would LOVE the Jimmer as Nash's back-up.
I’m not sure they would be willing to part with him, or what it would take to get him, but I agree with everything you said.
You guys are still high on Jimmer?!
I thought that train has left the station. He will never be a good NBA player.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
exactly
Jimmer has proven all the doubters to be correct so far. He is a tweener and struggles to shoot the ball in the NBA.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
To each his own opinion
From the beginning I understood Jimmer’s success in the NBA was contingent on him finding a team that will fit his style of play. He needs to have the ball in his hands and have the freedom to create.
He had that at BYU = success.
He doesn’t have that in Sacramento = eh.
There is no way for him to command the ball with the teammates he currently has.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
if you shoot 36%
it is obvious you can’t demand to get the ball more
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
So
Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, and Jan Vesely (all drafted in the top 10) have all proven their doubters correct as well after 20 games?
Go ahead and check their stats and return with a smug verdict please.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
by Eutychus on Jan 30, 2012 1:58 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Kemba Walker
put up a triple double last game……..
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
haha.
That’s great. But he’s shooting 37% from the field and 33% from 3 and he plays 2x the minutes Jimmer does.
Like I said. Check the stats.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
by Eutychus on Jan 30, 2012 2:00 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
stats
Kemba plays 27 mpg
Jimmer plays 23 mpg
Not sure how 27 equals 2×23.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 2:03 PM MST up reply actions
additionally
as a starter Kemba Walker averages 15ppg 5rpg 5apg 1.6spg 1bpg..
Yeah his shooting is bad but that was one of the concerns about him. The case with Jimmer is quite different when shooting was the only reason he was drafted in the first round but he shoots 36%.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 2:04 PM MST up reply actions
and more
Enes Kanter is among the league leaders in rebounding per minute. He is playing very efficient basketball in the limited minutes he is getting.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
Biyombo and Vesley
were expected to be raw projects but have shown flashes.
Derrick Williams is playing decent for Minnesota..
Really none of the players you mentioned has been as bad as Jimmer so far.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 2:02 PM MST up reply actions
I'm done with you
because you will only believe what you want to. Your comments here make that evident.
When you’d like to objectively discuss real statistics – let me know.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
...
you were the one quoting false stats not me.. I don’t hate Jimmer I am just being realistic.
Fredette had the most questionmarks and doubters of all draft picks and if you had a poll out there who is the most disappointing rookie so far Jimmer would win it by a mile. That is simply how it is right now. Plus he isn’t a super young rookie like Brandon Knight.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
Never?
He’s played like…20 games in the NBA.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Neverrrrrrrr
haha jk. His absolute ceiling is 6th man. If his shot isn’t falling (which it isn’t) then he has absolutely nothing to contribute.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
I'm still high on him...
because like Euty said I don’t think he’s being used correctly in the system he’s in. He’s playing more two guard in Sac right now and that simply isn’t his strength in my opinion. I would love to see him come in as a back-up to Nash and let him learn how to be a pass-first point guard who can also drain the bucket from anywhere on the court if left open…Just like Steve.
And yeah, 20 games isn’t nearly enough to know what his true potential is…Remember it took Nash 5 seasons to average more than 6 assists and 10 points a game, and he was starting in two of those years.
can you..
give an example of a player who “learned” to be a pass-first PG? That is a skill that simply isn’t learned.
Also Jimmer never really played PG, I think it is a bit far fetched to say that Jimmer’s best position is being a PG, much less pass first PG when he is the totally opposite as a player. Ben Gordon was a decent pre-draft comparison for Jimmer although Gordon is much more athletic. Eddie House is probably closer.
I think Jimmer eventually will be a good 6th man sparkplug scorer off the bench but that’s it.
by TruthTelling on Jan 30, 2012 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
The thing is...
I don’t think Jimmer is a true score-first guard. I don’t see him as a Westbrook or Rose. The only reason I think he earned the rep for being a score first guard is because he had to be at BYU, and now he’s been thrust into a score-first role as a two-guard in Sac as well.
Watching him play last year in college, I saw plenty of great passes to players on his team who simply couldn’t do anything with the ball. Jimmer did very well in collapsing the defense and kicking out to the open man, and also passing off screens. Fredette was made to be the leading scorer at BYU because he was their only real threat, especially once Brandon Davies was suspended.
I see a definite willingness to create shots for other players and I think in the right system he could learn to do it very well. I actually see a lot of Nash and D-Will in Jimmer and I think he could be a very effective pass-first kind of point guard if given the opportunity and mentored by that type of player.
That’s just my opinion though and there’s really no way of knowing unless he is given the opportunity. I would just like to see him get that chance and see what he could do in that regard.
by 7footer on Jan 30, 2012 3:49 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
if you watch him play now though
its obvious he doesn’t have the skills needed to penetrate a defense. all he can do is move along the three point line. he’s just so limited athletically.
Jimmer kinda stinks.
i’d watch him play pickup hoops all day, but as an NBA player he is pretty bad.
He might be the worst defender in the league right now.
I looked it up and Scott Howard would be proud
Earl Barron is the worst defender in the NBA at the moment…
But actually looking at players who play in the NBA? Deshawn Stevenson has the worst DRtg and Jimmer is right behind him. But in context – the entire Sacramento Kings front-line is in the top 50 worst DRtg in the league right now – Tyreke Evans? Supposedly a long and lanky quick and catlike defender? Only a few smidgens better than Jimmer at this point.
Jimmer’s defense is an issue I won’t argue that very much.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
I'm a Call of Duty Phenom, peep my YouTube.
Follow @LUDACLIPS
Earl Barron
Still topping the charts.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
its really quite embarrassing
you watch him and he has no idea what he is doing out there on defense. He looks like an elementary school kid playing on his first bball team, no joke lol.
ya but that whole Kings team is a disaster right now lol
So he's the worst defender in the NBA right now...and he's responsible for this:
That guy is comedy gold.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 30, 2012 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
That was one of my favorite "why something or someone sucks" pieces you ever did, Scott.
I even shared it over at Posting and Toasting when they got in a sub-thread conversation about Barron once.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 30, 2012 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
Good article...I'd love to keep Nash...
But I am only willing to do so if it doesn’t impede our ability to sign a couple of top notch free agents. 8-10 million a season is a lot to pay for a 39 year old…What’s the minimu you all think it’d take, and would anybody else offer him that kind of money.
I’m not really sure how money is going to be thrown around this coming off-season……
Let's do this...!
the good
teams he’d be attracted to (Knicks, Heat, etc.) will only have the MLE to offer which is about $5m.
It is a lot to spend but it’s like the Yankees paying Derek Jeter more than his market value b/c he’s worth more there than anywhere else.
Really, all the matters is that they don’t pay him too much that they hamper their flexibility and I think they can afford $8m unless they have a chance at Dwight AND Deron which I think is about a .1% chance.
Twitter me at: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 30, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
That's the problem...We never know who we can sign until it happens..
This causes a sticky problem with Nash…If we wait too long , he may walk. If we sign thim too early, it may hamper us…Tricky stuff this free agent business is…
Let's do this...!
He'll be 38
A guy that old shouldn’t be our primary target. I’d only give him an offer if we manage to pickup a superstar or two all-star or potential all-star caliber players.
Don't trade Dudley!
I don't think he'll just bail on us
Not his style. If he sees us getting some fresh new talent, he’d be excited to join us. I don’t think he will demand cap killing money to be the centerpiece for 2 more years.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
I don't either...
From everything he’s ever said he sounds like he’s perfectly content to finish his career here in Phoenix. Not to mention, if our FO can approach him with a plan to acquire more talent around him starting this off-season I think he would love to stay and try to make the most of it.
Same
If the Suns make Nash a respectable offer I really can’t see him leaving. If he asks for a trade that is one thing but if he makes it through the season and the Suns are paying him more than others will be, why would he leave?
As 7footer said Nash remains loyal to the Suns and has stated nothing but desire to retire in Phoenix.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Regarding the poll
I would definitely not trade him for nothing. If we do trade him, it better be a mid-high 1st or a potential starter-level talent. The only teams that want him are the ones that are in the high 20’s in the draft, and won’t give up any young talent… so scratch the trade idea.
Keep him if we can for cheap, allowing us to join him with new talent, not necessarily the other way around. He’s worth $8-10mil for sure.
"The Knicks with the swiss cheese defense.
...Vince Carter likes cheese." -Walt Frazier
I'm for re-signing Nash.
Reason being we’re currently looking like we’ll finish in the 10-12 range in the west. That should mean we get a good pick. Everyone that wants to trade Nash seems to want to do so to make sure we get a good pick. If we can get a god pick and keep Nash and still have lots of money to work with, why not do that? Worst case scenario Nash is able to mentor any young players we draft and possibly help bring free agents over.
If Nash stays,
And if he really wants to stay in Phoenix, I will honor that.
The Suns still remain in a tough spot to bring some players in.
Anyone no what Dragic’s contract status is? I still think he would be more than capable to backup Nash. Love to see him back.
by Grockcubs on Jan 30, 2012 2:34 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I am open to keeping Nash until he retires
Not only because I love watching him play, but because he is a great player. I understand the view point of getting rid of him so we get a better draft pick because all likelihood is we would get a nice one without Steve. The reason I would be open to keeping him is because we can still bring in players to try and improve our roster moving forward, but they need to be players that can thrive outside of Nash being on the court. Since he only has a few years left we need to mold our team away from him even if he is still on the roster.
I know we should try to utilize players who can play well with Nash but he will not be around for long and we can’t really replicate the way Nash plays with another PG.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
we NEED to move on, Steve's had a nice run here, but we need to know when to let go...
the only reason that this could be a good thing is the FO must have a plan for acquiring other players to go with steve. Or else theres no way they would sign him.
So, maybe there is a chance Nash re-signs here, huh?
And it was just last week that you said you there was “no chance.”
really? there’s no chance, why would he? is losing games fun? just because he won’t ask to be traded, doesn’t mean he’s going to stick with a loser rather than join a contender.
Surely, you didn’t think we’d all “forget” that.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 30, 2012 5:13 PM MST up reply actions
i also didn't think the suns would entertain paying him 10 mil a year...
its a stupid move on the part of the suns. i’m just trying to look on the “brightside”
i got one
how bout childress for barbosa?
that article says barbosa and calderon is available, and that toronto wants draft picks, but they really need a SF… so
the suns give toronto a 2nd round pick and childress
Toronto gives the suns barbosa…
Chill and a 2nd round pick for a half a season rental of Barbosa
Yeah, I’d do it. Not confident they would.
Don't trade Dudley!
i think it's more about adding a scoring punch
and unloading a contract…
only reason i can think toronto wanting to do it, is they need a SF…
Trade Nash, Don't Trade Nash
With all the potential FA’s resigning early, the gun has already discharged in the front office’s foot. It doesn’t make any difference now. We’ll have plenty of money to overpay mediocre FAs that won’t deserve their contracts and this team will be mediocre at best for the remainder of Nash’s time here. The front office will try to rebuild when Steve retires/leaves, and that will take another 4-5 years. The time to have traded Nash was last year.
Love the team, but the basketball they’re putting on the court now is only half watchable when Nash is healthy, and putrid when he has to sit. I can’t wait til Sarver sells the team at a huge loss and we get some ownership in here that knows what it’s doing.
Have you not heard? I was under the assumption that everyone had heard.
by WellABirdBirdBird on Jan 30, 2012 9:46 PM MST reply actions
??
The big FAs are Deron and D12. They are still in play.
And besides them, guys Like odom – who is guaranteed to be either amnestied or traded, will be available. As will Gerald Wallace and Batum, Garnett and Tim Duncan.
There will be lots of options come summer 2012 – so there is no need to be melodramatic!
I can’t wait til Sarver sells the team at a huge loss and we get some ownership in here that knows what it’s doing.
What if they relocate? Phoenix is a small market with medium income and a LOT of pro-teams. Chances a local buys it are slim if Sarver sells. Rather slim indeed.
Phoenix..
is not a small market. They are above NBA average the 13th largest NBA market.
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 6:04 AM MST up reply actions
Christ....
dude, we have all been through this a million times on this site. Go look for some previous posts that talk about Phx being a small market team.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
milwaukee, charlotte..
those are small market teams, Phoenix is the 5th largest city and ~13th largest media market.
http://www.proadvance.com/topmediamarkets.html
by TruthTelling on Jan 31, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
Its bad form to show up on a site and throw around your words like no one else has thought of this shit already.
We get it. You like the Suns. You like the NBA. You know stuff. Enough with the dick measuring.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
could TruthTelling be the new 'forget'?
i see many similarities lol
The Suns are a small market team...
…and I’m melodramatic. And your last name must be Sarver. Got it!
Have you not heard? I was under the assumption that everyone had heard.
by WellABirdBirdBird on Jan 31, 2012 7:14 AM MST up reply actions
To Nash or not to Nash?
I’d like to see what we could get for him, if not much then he stays a Sun until seasons end. If Steve Nash is the best PG avalible next year then we should sign him. If it’s Deron Williams and he wants to come to PHX, then we should sign him instead.
If Mayo is avalible and doesn’t ask for max money, or anything ridiculous then why not. Same for Beasley. They both are a massive talent upgrade over what we have at the SG and PF-SF position.
Their is no point saying we can’t win next year or the year after and just tank. It guarantees us nothing. I don’t know anyone who picked the Mavs to sweep the Lakers and beat the Heat in 6 games to win it all last year. But that’s sports.
Lets get the best avalible players and reload, with or without Nash and make a run.
I say keep Nash. He’s a true asset to the SUNS. He’s worth more playing for us than using him for trade bait. We can use him to mentor a rookie PG if we draft one or trade for one…He is our best availble PG option. Deron wont come the Phx…..
What do you guys think of Kaman? I hear New Orleans wants to trade him and he wants out. You think he’s too expensive? Or do you think it would be an overload at the center position for Phx?
What does Nash want?
To play for a championship contender next season or to play out his career with the Suns. Sarver wants to keep him but will he stay?
They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds.
-- Wilt Chamberlain
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