Phoenix Suns Scorched by Mavericks, 122-99
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 30, 2012 10:00 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage
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PrintThe Dallas Mavericks proved once again they can win against the Phoenix Suns without Dirk Nowitzki. Although Dirk actually played tonight, he was a non-factor. The Mavericks didn't need the big blond man as Vince Carter and Delonte West combined to shoot 10-13 from beyond the arc.
This was not a fun game to witness. The Mavericks were scorching all night long and held the Suns in check defensively converting their rare misses into buckets. With Steve Nash sitting, the Suns never had a chance tonight.
The Mavericks dropped 10 of 16 threes in the first two quarters, including 6 straight to end the half. Once again a former Sun did major damage. This time it was in the form of Vince Carter (cringe), who went for 15 points on 6-9 shooting, including three out four 3-pointers. The Suns were out rebounded 23-13, with the Mavericks scoring 15 second chance points. While the Suns looked decent from a numbers standpoint: 48% fg, 4-7 from beyond the arc, and only 5 turnovers, missing 5 of their last 6 shots to end the 2nd quarter left them down by 18 at the break.
Said Suns defensive guru, Elston Turner: "..We blew assignments and allowed too much dribble penetration..."
Sound familiar? Need to read any further?
In the second half, things got no better for the Suns. The Mavericks extended their lead to as many as 26. The Suns had a couple of late runs, but it was too late. Late enough for Robin Lopez to get playing time.
Duly Noted:
- The Mavericks went 14-27 from beyond the arc and shot 55% overall
- The Mavericks scored 20 points off of 10 offensive rebounds
- The Mavericks outrebounded the Suns 44-33 and out dished the Suns 31-21
- Former Suns Vince Carter and Shawn Marion went for 41 points and +36 combined
- Marcin Gortat led the Suns with 17 and 10. Jared Dudley scored 15, and Grant Hill added 12.
- Sebastian Telfair played well in garbage time. It would be nice if he played as confident when the game was close.
- Josh Childress scored 9 points, grabbed 4 boards, and added 2 assists and 2 steals. It appears he's back in the rotation.
Quotes
"They shot the heck out of the ball tonight...It's hard to play catchup against that team especially when they're locked in like they were...They force you to get into rotations...You gotta try and double Dirk...he opens up other guys and they shot the ball extremely well...Their 18th in the league in shooting and we forced them to make shots and they made them...You have to play the averages..."
On Josh Childress
'He's playing well. he's a true professional. He came every day and he worked...We gave him an opportunity and I think he did a great job."
Jared Dudley
"...We played really bad on defense tonight...they made us pay. They got hot early and they kept it going."
Depressing Thoughts:
- Alvin Gentry sounded tired and somewhat apologetic of his players when commenting on this game. Without Steve Nash, the odds are stacked very high against the Suns this season. But tonight there was much talk about the defensive rotation, how helping out Grant Hill defend Dirk Nowitzki left the Mavericks with a lot of open shots. They just happened to hit those shots. Steve Nash most likely wouldn't have made much of a difference in defending the Mavericks onslaught tonight.
- Gentry sounds rational, you play the averages. I get it. But maybe after two quarters when you give up 66 points you ditch the averages when you see it isn't working. What do you do to contain Dirk? On a normal day in a normal season I would have been more concerned about him. But this is not your normal Dirk whose averaging 17.1 ppg, his lowest average since his rookie year. This is tired Dirk. Dirk who had to take a week off because he was out of shape. Maybe you rough him up with Frye, Morris, and Warrick. That's 18 fouls you have to give. Then again Dirk's a decent free throw shooter.
- Although I'm not much of a fan of Tom Chambers commentary, the guy seemed to disagree with Alvin Gentry: "You can't allow 55% from the field. You can't allow a team to shoot over 50% in threes." While Gentry seemed resigned at his team's defensive performance, Chambers had a different view as did Jared Dudley. Odd?
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First?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Said Suns defensive guru, Elston Turner
I have a feeling you couldn’t type this with a straight face.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 30, 2012 10:15 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
One step closer to that low draft pick!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111one
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
YIPPPPPPIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Who are we kidding?..."
by Larfleeze on Jan 30, 2012 10:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Why did we have to win that Memphis game though
would have been even 1 step closer!!!!
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Not sure it'll be the one you want
No matter who we draft.
by MMotherwell on Jan 31, 2012 12:50 AM MST up reply actions
I actually pay zero attention to college hoops
so when it comes draft time I am always at a complete loss and have no idea what picks are good or bad.
Member of the "Let’s Make FanShots Relevant!" Club
Haha it is okay
I am right there with you. Don’t sign me up for watching college sports… It just is not the same for me.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Glad I didn't watch
I hate Dallas almost as much as San Antonio.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Oh man, I hate Dallas almost as much as San Antonio, too! I really don’t know why.
Phoenix Suns and Steve Nash. That is all.
by PhoenixSons on Jan 30, 2012 11:59 PM MST up reply actions
I only really don't like Terry
And Odom was a Laker so I don’t like him either.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
It's kind of funny...
Or at least ironic that our two worst defensive performances have come in games that we played without Nash. One would assume that without our supposed biggest defensive liability that we would play better defensively, but that has absolutely been proven not to be the case this season.
by 7footer on Jan 30, 2012 10:27 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Nash has been good the last two years
With hand checking outlawed, and the move to scrambling, rotating D, no PG can stay in front of their man, so Nash’s biggest liability is not that much worse than anyone else. He’s b een positively average the last few years.
by MMotherwell on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 AM MST up reply actions
I want to vote for both options...
because Alvin needs to step it up, and this team has no talent.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
He is NOT a good coach
3 seconds to go, a defensive play, and he puts in Nash and Hak? WTF? On a play like that, you put in Price and maybe JChill for Hak. Even if Nash didn’t get injured, it was poor coaching and WITH the injury, it was disastrous coaching.
Gentry seems like a coach who will let players play, irrespective of the game situation. when it works, like it did against San Antonio in the playoffs two years ago, he looks like a smart coach. But when he plays Nash FOR NO REASON and he gets hurt, he looks stupid.
In any case, that one play sums up Gentry’s coaching, which in a(n imaginary) word is untactical.
by MMotherwell on Jan 31, 2012 12:56 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to agree, MM. He does a lot of things that make no sense. He throws shit against the wall and hopes it sticks.
by BringBackBarkley17 on Jan 31, 2012 1:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
agree, Gentry is a career 483% coach
Know why the Spurs beat us so many years? They would close out on you if you had the ball, taking the outside shot away from a sharp shooting team. Look how many times a Dallas player was wide open for a three (52%), didn’t they do the same thing to us last week? MM nailed it, Gentry lets players play, cause thats all he has. . The only really decent year under Gentry’s coaching career was the 09-10 Suns team, which Mr Orange could’ve led to the playoffs
Note to SUNS Sponsors and Sarver:
I would rather watch my dentist pull wisdom teeth (without good anesthesia) than watch the SUNS without Steve Nash.
Sarver: you need to fire (Mitt says it is fun!) Lon Babby and get a FO that knows what they are doing. Turned this game off in 2nd Q for reruns of old TV shows.
It's interesting that the Suns twitter and some players like Dudley are continuously promoting ticket sales
and ticket packages. Trying to sell before we start sucking even more? lol.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
At least most Suns fans sit through the games all the way to the end, unlike some Heat fans during the Finals...
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
The Heat don't have any fans
looks at their SBN blog it has like 7 comments, and their game threads are composed of the same 3 people, besides Miami isn’t that big of a city, it only has like 400,000 people, that’s like the size of Cleveland, or Bakersfield, seriously….
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Well that...
And the fact that 80% of them bandwagoners.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Who aren't even fans
“Is Lebron the one that looks like a dinosaur???”
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Miami proper has about 400,000 people. The metro area's population is 5.5 million (7th in the US).
I guess that means Heat fans are so stupid they don’t know how to use the internet.
Hm, or they sold their computers/smartphones for cocaine money. Yeah, that’s probably it.
Uh...no they don't. Trust me.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 9:21 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
random
Frye 4-4 FT, 1-5 FG hmmmm! I don’t think the ‘green light’ thing is working to well? Gentry, maybe try more post plays for the 6’11 guy’s.
Elston who?
Seems Chilly can do more than warm the bench. Why isn’t Gentry playing him more. I think he is better than half the players on the team.
Nash, Hill, Gortat, Dudley, Morris, and maybe Chilly stay. Unsure of Redd. Rest of team, go.
I don't think I can really vote on the poll
I want to say No, but it will happen if the team continues to struggle. Gentry is having a tough time with this team and I don’t fully blame him for that… Dudley and Frye have been huge for us and have largely disappointed. Our starting line-up is just not up to par, although we are deep.
As for the game it looks like this was a good one to miss. I expected a loss without Nash though. Too bad VC and Marion went for 40 on us tonight….
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Dudley and Frye have been huge for us
Speaking of last season, if that was confusing haha.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I was about to say
Where the hell have you been.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Haha yeah my bad
After I read it again I could see how it could be seen that way. Frye has been the epitome of suck this year.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Offensively, I think we did great...almost got to 100.
Defensively…wait what?
Before this season started, I already knew we were screwed. As soon as they said they hired a defensive coach so the Suns can play defense, I immediately had a flashback of Terry Porter, who had a defensive mind. And we all knew what happened that season…
Bring on the lottery pick.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
I would say yeah the talent isn't really there
But there NEEDS to be a coaching change. If players are not even playing up to their norm, or averages, there is a problem. When a team is loosing like we are a change has to happen, but it won’t happen this year. If Gentry is gone, it will be after the season is over. why?
Because the Suns are moving to a new era next year. We are clearing up all this cap room, and we could be without Steve Nash if he decided to take his talent elsewhere. What a better time to bring in a new coach when you overhaul a roster. Plus Gentry has ran his course, not really been all that great but not bad.
by Will Smith on Jan 31, 2012 12:13 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%, Fresh Prince.
It looks like Gentry has lost the ability to motivate his team or use lineups effectively. I feel like AG now just picks names out of a hat to decide subs…
by Bostonian Suns Fan on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM MST up reply actions
How did Chilly do?
Was he playing outside of just garbage time?
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Childress had a really good game.
He was finally allowed to play like Josh Childress. They allowed him to slash and attack the basket. He was very active and played solid D. Did a respectful job on Dirk. At one point he stole the ball and took it for a layup, a play Brown would’ve butchered.
If Childress gets to play he’s game more often, he can help us. Plus we lack athletes and he’s full of athleticism.
After the game Gortat said, "if we have 12 Josh Childresses, we win this game.
by Chris_Coffel on Jan 31, 2012 7:16 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
12 Josh Childresses is nightmare fuel.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 9:22 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Good to hear
I like Chilly! He has just been put in an unfair situation and has been great about it and never complains. Always plays hard when he gets in the game. As long as he isn’t jacking 3s I like his game.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I really like Alvin
This season is not his fault. He is doing the best possible job with what we have. Noone is hitting threes or creating their own shot, but firing Alvin wont change that.
"He's very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Jan 31, 2012 1:50 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions
We've seen what he could do when he has a talented team to coach...
In 08-09 when he took over as Suns head coach, he had a pretty stacked team (before Amare’s injury) and they dominated those games before Amare went out.
In 09-10, he had a very balanced but talented roster. He took them to the WCF and developed pretty much the first true Suns 2nd unit in the Nash era.
While he doesn’t deserve all the blame, he does have some things to work on. The first thing off the top of my head that he needs to improve is how to manage his timeouts better. He waits too long before calling them and lets the other team get hot against us.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Jan 31, 2012 3:45 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
A coach has fvery few responsibilities
1) Choose who to play how often
2) Choose when to play players
3) Make tactical decisions – situational subs etc
Gentry is poor at all three IMHO.
Leaving Nash on for the last 3 seconds was a sackable offense – even if Nash hadn’t got injured. It wasn’t a Nash situation.
IMHO, Gentry is too old skool. He believes in the sort of talkey BS that 1960s coaches spun, you know, like “dance with the girl that brung yah”, “superstars get it done” blah blah. That is why he kept Nash on – because he’s not a tactical, coaching matters kinda guy, he’s a rhetoric that makes no sense kinda guy.
A tactical coach, facing an up by two, 3 second on the clock last shot defensive situation would put his five best defenders out there. Far too often in the Gentry era, that hasn’t happened, with Gentry “rewarding” (how is this a reward?) the lineup that was in the game with the last play honours.
I just think that everything that the word coach implies, Gentry has proven ineffective at. Some of that is the players he has to work with for sure, but when it has come time to prove he can help, Gentry has been exposed.
by MMotherwell on Jan 31, 2012 4:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He does have some things to work on
I don’t want to keep harking on Gentry, cause he does have some positives to bring this team. BUT he is nearly 60 years old, even started his career under Popovich 13 years ago. I don’t think he has much room to grow. I agree that we do not fire him this season.
What a weird game
Dallas just hit a crazy number of 3s. Wide open sure, but man, insane percentage!
Dallas has absolutely torched us over the last 12 or so games..
Its like the whole Suns team was sleeping with Dirk’s wife or something. Maybe its the curse of Marion.
Their shooting has been out of this world on numerous occasions and even worse they seem to get whatever they need to absolutely humiliate us. Like if Dirk is off, West and Carter have career best shooting games. Or its Odom, Terry has been insane a few times, or they can’t shoot but get like 25 offensive boards.
last night suns were down 5 with 530 left in the first half and Dallas hit 9 3’s in a row (9-9) in the next 13 mins of play. That is 1 in a 1000 with nobody covering you!!
I hate playing these guys as I know that no matter how we play it will be a beat down.
sorry just needed to calculate it...
assuming someone is a 45% 3 point shooter with no one covering them (I don’t think too many could/would be better than that, and one wouldn’t expect Delonte west, Carter and Terry to be better than that, averaging it out) the odds of going 9 in a row is 7 in 10,000 or less than one in a 1000.
Gotta love those odds
Doesn’t it make it that much worse when it is VC himself? Oh god….
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
When is the next game? sigh
You can follow me on twitter.
sports_dude33
Looking ahead for Grant Hill's 1000th game.
Before this season
We all know we we’re going to do horribly. But right now, it’s looking like a repeat of last season: Win one, lose a few, win a few, lose one. We can’t afford to have that type of inconsistency. If you’re going to lose, do it right and get a Top 5 pick.
Joe Saunders: "They Giants played a really good game, so hats off to us"
i don't think they should have been doubling dirk
he has been sitting out for 4 games trying to get in shape. so i think you make dirt beat your team 1 on 1, and make adjustments to the other guys getting hot (shut down the roll players)
that was kind of what i was saying in the recap.
but you got a staff of coaches and a defensive coordinator as well. so who knows more, the professionals, or we angry fans?
ug, nevermind.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 31, 2012 8:14 AM MST up reply actions
The reality is...
if the Suns don’t trade Nash while he still has marketability, and some other players (Frye please) we are witnessing the Suns’ future. There have been decisions made about this ballclub’s makeup that simply have not, and will not, work.
The Suns don’t have the talent to field a winning team right now, and its going to get much worse before it even begins to better. I’m talking about three, four more years of mediocrity at best.
Nash has got to go, and be replaced by similar levels of youthful talent, if the Suns have any illusions about becoming competitive again any time soon.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
Nash has got to go, and be replaced by similar levels of youthful talent, if the Suns have any illusions about becoming competitive again any time soon.
thats one of the problems. the return for nash would be nowhere near similar levels of youthful talent.
check this if you haven’t already.
the free agent class next season isn’t looking good for the suns.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 31, 2012 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
Question, Wil.
If the Suns go into the offseason and there is basically nobody available (which appears may be the case), and the Suns backup plan is to sign players (such as Nash) to short term deals to transiently fill the minimum spending requirement, at what point should we as fans begin to question the soundness of a strategy that appears to be creating a revolving door of cap space?
I guess I would rather have the Suns give Nash $20 millioin next year than sign a bad long term deal (think Tom Gugliotta), so I see where the front office might view him as a safety net, but this strategy seems destined to result in a third straight year out of the playoffs, which will be the first time that has happened in a quarter century.
The last time the Suns were in this big of a predicament (potentially – not quite there yet), they dug out of it by trading their best player (Nance) for (essentially) KJ, West, Corbin, and Majerle. The Suns traded the face of the franchise and it worked.
What I’m suggesting is that the Phoenix Suns are bigger than Steve Nash. Gortat should be expendable if the right deal comes along. When a team is rebuilding, anyone is expendable. Sometimes loyalty hurts you.
I don’t want a return to prominence to be stymied by fear, indecision, or even loyalty… Sometimes great reward entails great risk. It seems to me that the keep Steve for two more years and finish 10th in the Western Conference and take a run at a franchise record for consecutive years out of the playoffs is the low risk, safe strategy.
If they sign Nash as a stop gap, that might be better than the worst case scenario, but the point of the front office isn’t to avoid the worst case scenario, it’s to achieve the best case scenario!
So if the Suns do sign Nash for next season, let’s pretend it’s a one year deal, I hope that if there is a team with a need at point guard and something legitimate to offer in return that the Suns jump on it…
So I guess here’s the question… Do you think that this owner and this front office has the intestinal fortitude to take a swing for the fences, or will they always be playing it safe?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 10:56 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I think Sarver's guys (Blankabby) are probably running metrics as we speak...
Whether the dwindling fanbase (from Suns having a not so great season) is actually better than a putrid fan base if Nash gets traded. At what point does the scale tip? Part of the equation has to be whether a few more years of mediocrity (If Nash stays) wins out in relation versus total suckitude (Blow this mother straight up…) with a strategic focus for say 2014/2015.
It’s a hard call that Teams FO types have to make. But strategic analysis is what they get paid the big bucks to make…
Let's do this...!
I know we don't like to think about it..
But money is generally the bottom line in any organization (Government organizations being the exception). Winning is priority, but money is where the line gets drawn. Value has to be considered into any equation.
Let's do this...!
very true, and that’s why I think it’s relevant to think of the dwindling fanbase. I’d love to know the change in concession sales from 2005 through the present.
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
I think it lies somehwere on this line
along with ticket sales and hope for the team in the near future.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:36 AM MST up reply actions
more like a negative parabola
with an infinite negative direction
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
This is your Phoenix Suns!
It looks like a frowny face…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
How do you know what I like to think about?
I think I gravitate towards the perverse and morbid….
Didn’t the Suns have to factor in value (money) when they traded Nance? They thought that trade would make them better and pulled the trigger.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Jim, What I'm saying is that value metics have to be ran..
At the point of diminishing returns from keeping Nash have to be balanced against the value lost from a few years of rebuilding (and the inherent potential fr a top tier team in a few years). It’s the revenge of the beancounters to figure out which direction the organization should go. As PHXgp pointed out, there is not a lot of time before the trading dealine forces our hand which direction…
Let's do this...!
I am inclined to think this may not be far from the truth
with the current administration. Business before basketball.
But I know in the past this franchise has made decisions that appeared to be basketball before business.
Think of the metaphor of shoving all the chips in.
I just struggle with it because of my competitive nature. I want the Suns to win. I think the majority of people share my nature, otherwise they wouldn’t even have playoffs and everyone would get a participation ribbon at the end of the season (sort of like college football).
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
What is betetr
16-50 or 30-36 and why?
It is odd that in the NBA fans think 20-46 is better, and while I can see the logic, I’d rather watch a 29-37 team. No one is going to watch a team that goes 16-56, and the rebuilding will take years.
I’m with Sarver on not having the stomach for a long rebuild.
It goes like this:
Sometimes when you lose, you really win.
Sometimes when you win, you really lose.
Sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie.
Sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose.
I would still watch. At least I think I would. It’s hard to speak in absolutes about the future, but I’ve been with them every step of the way my entire life so far.
If the choice is between not sucking and contending again or sucking and contending again, I would choose to not suck. Unfortunately, the situation is slightly more byzantine than this either/or example.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldn't watch as much
Life intrudes. I remember telling people, in the western conference finals in a few years ago I was really sick. Not doing that with this team.
It’s hard to speak in absolutes about the future
Which is why the dream of a lottery pick is so unappealing to me. In this case, you can either have cake and who knows what (play for wins), or get punched in the face and gets who knows what (tank).
I’m voting for cake :P
In short, No.
I think that Robert Sarver and Steve Nash are locked together, because both will lose if the status quo is changed. If Sarver decides that Nash needs to move on (likely would be decided this year), then it needs to be by the trade deadline for the Suns to get anything of value from the deal. Sarver would be widely criticized (something he is used to, granted) by the Suns fan base and the “ticket sales” and fan base would continue to diminish. Also, Steve is not going to ask for a trade, even if it’s for his own good. He’ll wait until his contract is up and review his options.
At that time the Suns have already lost because we either end up spending a bunch of money on Nash to maintain the status quo (which is bad) or we let him go for nothing.
So, it’s an interesting question, and we haven’t seen much of this front office yet, but I can’t see the FO moving on Nash unless he initiates. Which he has said he won’t.
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
Yes and this is why I feel he stays with PHX at least through this season...
I have a feeling the value scales have not significantly gravitated in a direction that will cause Sarver to move. There just aren’t enough external pressures on the organization to cause his hand to be forced.
Let's do this...!
To make it perfectly transparent,
I’m not advocating trading Nash for a head of cabbage.
I can see both sides of the trade Nash argument. I can see why people want to jettison him for ping pong balls, I can see why others want to keep him.
I’m not inveighing against the concept of keeping Nash on another short term deal, I’m just saying that he should not be viewed as untradeable. If they did this and an attractive deal did come along, they should pull the trigger.
A front office should never be paralyzed by vacillation.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
I agree. But I think that the early returns will show...
That the Suns front office, evern with their analysis, just isn’t sure what it needs to do right now. And because there are not yet a lot of external pressures beating Sarver upside his head, I don’t see Nash being traded this season.
Let's do this...!
This worries me.
That the Suns front office, evern with their analysis, just isn’t sure what it needs to do right now.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
Boy, I bet they're regretting
the Goran Drajic trade now…
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 31, 2012 6:00 PM MST up reply actions
I wonder what the collective outcry from paying Suns fans would be
if the Suns ended the season in the 11th or 12th spot and decided that it was time to move on.
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
Steve could make the decision for them.
I don’t think Steve knows what he’s going to do one way or another. I also think that dominos need to fall that will influence his decision making process.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
yeah I think that we still need to see how this plays out. I could get worse, forcing someone to do something.
Alvin Gentry seems pretty frustrated lately. A lot of our players don’t seem to have a lot of fight left.
I see we watch and see how the season unfolds. In this aspect it may actually be interesting.
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
I can almost guarantee it will be more interesting
than anything we see on the court this season.
This has the potential to become comically embarrassing if things take a calamitous twist.
I’m sure I’m not the only person who has considered a scenario where instead of striking rich in free agency, the Suns are instead scrambling to find the least damaging way to the temporarily occupy their cap space (e.g. one year contracts).
I have little hope the Suns will contend again any time soon, but it would be nice to regain some brio and vim on Planet Orange. My passion for this current version of Suns basketball is more like a smolder than a blaze.
I have actually caught myself feeling sorry/embarrassed for the players this year. I guess that’s just me. I don’t seem to mind it as much when younger players are getting their teeth kicked in, but when it’s the veterans it seems like a slow, painful death.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with this:
I don’t seem to mind it as much when younger players are getting their teeth kicked in, but when it’s the veterans it seems like a slow, painful death.
It’s just really kind of sad. They don’t stand a chance in a lot of these games.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
A this point we can no longer consider it in terms...
of negativity or optimism…. Or even in terms of loyalty or disingenuity. We now have to look at how this team effectively implements a strategic plan to return to relevance. In this venue, the status quo is not a viable option.
Let's do this...!
free agency isn't a place we want to go anymore.
by the trade deadline, March 15, we will know where our team stands for the future. Either we made some big moves (which we CAN do, by the way, we have some good pieces) or we made very little movement and are looking at 2013 off-season as our next time to try and improve.
The 2012 offseason is dying and the trade deadline should become a priority.
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
Thanks to everybody
for the input/feedback/perspective.
I like to get a feeling for how other people view a situation and give consideration to their thoughts so that I am not stuck in a vacuum with my opinion.
I have my fingers crossed that this will somehow work out.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
It would be non-existent from me (the paying Suns fan).
This team has Steve Nash on it and they are just awful, awful, awful to watch. I seriously cannot stand watching them. Something needs to be done to shake it up….what that something is is up to the people who seem to continuously make bad decisions.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
This.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 31, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions
I think everyone would love to replace Steve Nash
With a 28 year old version if Steve Nash….the trick is in the execution. Damn execution!
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 9:24 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I would go younger and settle for a 21 year old Rubio.
Oddly enough, there would probably be resistance in a faction of the fanbase if we could actually trade the 38 year old Steve Nash (in one week) for the actual 28 year old Steve Nash.
I’m sure that it would dispaly some heinous level of moral turpitude or teem with disloyalty…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
but that trade is NOT HAPPENING.
Minny wouldn’t go for it. Flip that around. If the suns have Rubio and they are looking at selling him off, for a 38 year old, hall of famer, to be sure, but I guy that has no more than 3 years left and is probably not that much better than the guy you currently have over those 3 years? At a much lower price?
Again, they let Drajic go
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 31, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions
My personal game highlight?
When Vince Carter hit a 2nd quarter three I yelled quite loudly “I hate you Vince Carter”. Some Maverick fan in front of me turned around and just stared at me. The exchange went like this:
Scott: What…do you actually like Vince Carter?
Mavs fan: Yeah I really do.
Scott: No you don’t….Vince Carter’s parents don’t even like Vince Carter.
Mavs fan: Point taken.
And scene.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
Couldn't sneak a flamethrower in past security?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
The backpack gave me away.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
hahahaahaa
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Should've gone with the Neo coat, Scott.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Unless this guy's the head of security....
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
If that guys anywhere on staff..
We would have a few Championship banners hanging from the ceiling…
Let's do this...!
If we rebuild I would rather we not rush it. Lets get it done in a 2-3 year time frame. Gets some draft picks, pick up some FA and maybe make a trade or two. If we rush it I have a feeling it will be a flop.
If they get the right pieces the Suns can still be fun to watch during their rebuilding stages. I say keep Nash, let him retire a Sun if he wants to. Go get a young Gaurd in the Draft or trade that the FO can see building around and let Nash mentor him in last few years of his career.
I hear New Orleans has Kaman on the Trade Block. What do you guys think of him in Phx? He’s a consistant double double kinda guy….though he is expensive.
The Larry Nance for KJ, Corbin and West trade
brought near instant dividends. It was well thought out, and changed the franchise for 25 years.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 31, 2012 6:03 PM MST up reply actions
25 years?
Wow – that’s… that’s… hmmm.
Was certainly a good trade, though Nance was 29 when he was traded, not thirty nine.
Thinking of going to the Hornets game and skipping class.
Tickets for 10 bucks and probably the only time I’ll get to see them this season. Why the hell not?
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
WARNING: Watching Suns basketball may induce vomiting.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
you would know, Scott.
you think you’re gonna make it through to the end of the season with those home games?
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
It's really hard man. Seriously.
I’m just making sure to take interesting and fun people to the games….or be drunk.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
I would figure it would have some perks...
Easy access to parking. No lines at the concession stands. Light traffic when the game ends (which is usally right around tip-off). The ability to take a nap during the game without worrying about obstreperous fans disturbing you.
Sounds like a primo deal.
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
nice, you should work in Suns marketing.
it’s almost as if you were watching from home!
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
The only thing Scott is missing is an off button.
What do you think about my question above gp?
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:07 AM MST up reply actions
I assume you are referring to the above flamethrower?
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
No, the one I posed to Wil.
Just a little bit above it. I directed it to him, but it’s open to anyone and I’d like to hear your thoughts…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
There are definitely some perks.
Nobody seems to get bothered when you get up to go to the bathroom. There are no bathroom lines. You can say really sarcastic shit really loudly and nobody cares.
No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.
by Scott Howard on Jan 31, 2012 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
like when I used to go to minor league hockey games just for the dollar beer.
some good times were had
Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!
Why give your hard earned $10 to the Suns?
When that $10 will go along way out on the street to some desperate scalper for a game you actually might want to watch?
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 31, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
The crappy part is that
even though we’ve been sucking, other teams have been worse. We technically only have the 9th or 10th pick looking at the standings:(
Twitter: @FredLegittt
The Suns are only a game out of the fifth pick.
Right now they’re on pace to finish 23-43, but that has been trending downward (see above graph documenting concession and ticket sales).
The Suns are equidistant from the playoffs and the worst record in the league (4.5 games either way).
I would figure that something has to give, though. I’m just having a hard time warpping my mind around the concept that a team with Steve Nash starting at point guard could finish 23-43…
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Jan 31, 2012 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
Heard on the radio
That the Suns are only actively trying to trade Lopez.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
That would help
a lot actually.
sententia Platonis semper in ore illius fuit, florere civitates si aut philosophi imperarent aut imperantes philosopharentur
by NASCARbernet on Jan 31, 2012 6:04 PM MST up reply actions
I wish there was a cyanide pill for this season.
Basically the way it would work is a team could decide at any point to kill the season and shut down the team. Players get paid 2/3 salary, but don’t have to play or they could get traded. Season ticket holders get their money back on games unplayed. The Suns get the appropriate amount of ping pong balls in the draft based on the current winning %.
by oLLiE Boombayay on Jan 31, 2012 1:53 PM MST reply actions
Like the Little League mercy rule, but for the season? Not a bad idea.
Except, instead of the 2/3rds of their salary, every player gets a Capri-Sun.
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo
by East Bay Ray on Jan 31, 2012 2:51 PM MST up reply actions
patience my freinds
all seems lost in negativity when your team is losing,fire the coach,everyone sucks,dont play him-why in the world would you start that guy etc…………A few wins and the whole attitude will change.But I know thats our problem do we have enough talent to run a few off?We must keep our chins up and look to the BRIGHT SIDE!
skitsophrenics are never alone-Just ask scott howard
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