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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Could Phoenix Suns' Head Coach Alvin Gentry Be The First To Go?

This isn't a franchise that's used to losing. The Phoenix Suns have had the unlucky fortune of being named the "Best franchise never to win a championship" in the NBA. Although the Suns have yet to reach the promised land, the Suns are still viewed as being one of the top franchises in the league. In fact, John Hollinger of ESPN ranks the Phoenix Suns as the 5th best NBA franchise overall, ahead of several teams who actually have trophies in their book case.

So when a historically successful and proud team like the Phoenix Suns suddenly fails to produce wins, struggling even against many of the lesser teams in the league, the inevitable finger pointing is soon to follow.

Ask a dozen people what they think is wrong with the Suns and you are likely to get a dozen different answers...I know, I've done it. While the opinions as to what the problem is and what should be done to fix it may vary, the fact of the matter remains constant. The Suns just aren't very good right now.

A bad team means poor ticket sales and low merchandise revenue. As I write this, the Suns now rank 21st in attendance...that's down from 15th last season. Not only that, but Suns' owner Robert Sarver has already stated previously that,

As long as Steve (Nash) and Grant (Hill) are here, I feel an obligation to be as successful as possible... (and) I don't know that I can sit there for four years and watch a terrible team play. I think we have too many good players to be terrible, even if we wanted to try and be terrible.

Guess what? The Suns are well on their way to terrible...and both Steve Nash and Grant Hill remain on the roster. So what now Bob?

Well Sarver's not talking, and neither is anyone else in the Suns front office for that matter. But one thing's for sure, something is bound to happen soon to try to right the ship before US Airways Center starts looking like a ghost town.

Will the Suns make a trade soon to acquire more talent, or could head coach Alvin Gentry be the first to go?

Read on after the jump for more.

Star-divide

First, let's be clear, the lack of talent on this roster right now is no accident. The Suns have made a concerted effort to limit expensive free agent signings this season so they could enter into the free agency period of 2012 with plenty of cash to spend. The Suns are currently made up primarily of expiring contracts and one-year deals, with only 6 of the 13 players on the roster currently under contract for next season.

In the first 20 games of this shortened season, the Suns now stand with a record of 7-13. The Suns already have four to six (depending on how you look at it) bad losses on their books, and only two quality wins. The bad losses include defeats at the hands of the Hornets, Cavaliers, Raptors, Mavericks (Without Dirk Nowitzki), Bulls (Without Derrick Rose), and Nets (without Brook Lopez); and the only two quality wins were against the Trail Blazers and the Grizzlies...both of whom have winning records.

Because of this, many analysts and fans have begun to question whether or not the Suns' front office plan on making changes, and what their options are. While there's no doubt the Suns lack the talent they are accustomed to, there's still a sense that the Suns are under-performing even considering the players currently on their roster. Last season the Suns got off to another slow start but picked up considerably after the trade with Orlando. The changes that have been made to this team between this season and last season after we traded for Marcin Gortat have been minimal (and many would argue that our roster has actually improved), yet the team seems to be playing markedly worse.

Again, and this can't be stated enough, the front office does not want to take on more salaries and contracts that will bog them down when they try to make a play for a couple of high powered free-agents next summer. I'm guessing they want better production with the team they currently have in place...and I seriously doubt they foresaw this team being this bad.

This leads me to wonder if they will resist making any substantial trades at all, and if the head coaching position may be the first change made instead?

What do you think?

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Poll
Should the Phoenix Suns Fire Head Coach Alvin Gentry?
Yes, there's no question that this team is underperforming and a coaching change needs to be made
88 votes
No, the probelm with the Suns is clearly a lack of talent.
278 votes
Maybe, but only if the Suns are still struggling after a trade is made to try to improve this team first.
118 votes

484 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 122 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Comments

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This is probably

the most likely to happen, not some big trades to save the franchise.

by Chafid Ahmad on Feb 1, 2012 12:05 AM MST reply actions  

Best franchise to never win a championship*

in all sports, just not the NBA. Which only makes that worse. But at least we’re the best at something!

by Chris_Coffel on Feb 1, 2012 12:07 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions  

Good post.

I just don’t see the Suns firing Gentry during the season. I think they’d wait until season’s end.

by Chris_Coffel on Feb 1, 2012 12:10 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions  

I agree

I can only see a firing happening in the offseason not during the regular season.

"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!

by Airwave on Feb 1, 2012 12:38 AM MST up reply actions  

We lost talent

We went from JRich/Barbosa/Dragic to VC/Pietrus/Brooks to Price/Brown/Telfair, did we really expect anything different? I don’t understand why we thought it was a good idea to trade all of our even somewhat talented guards or let them go, but it happened. As much as I hate to say it, VC was still an upgrade over everyone else on the roster because he was a threat to score, and he can actually create for himself. Pietrus is just the precursor to Brown.

Even if it’s a contested fadeaway jumper, it’s still better than Brown or any of the rest of our rotation to jack up a shot. Compound the fact that we lost Brooks, and Nash is the only talented guard on the roster. Doesn’t matter that the other players try hard, they just can’t make up for the fact that they can’t create vs. an nba defense. Hedo would be a huge upgrade over anybody. This team can’t play, and Gentry is not the coach for this team as much as I like him. We better hope we can even get someone like James Harden this summer, or it’s going to be a long rebuild…

by Siebert on Feb 1, 2012 12:29 AM MST reply actions  

Well said.

Getting rid of Dragic was just plain dumb. And to top it off throwing another 1st round pick away.

by Grockcubs on Feb 1, 2012 6:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Alvin shouldn't have to be the scapegoat

I really really like our coach and don’t want him to go. It is not his fault that the FO has handcuffed him and our team.

"He's very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie

by Snowbird on Feb 1, 2012 12:47 AM MST via iPhone app reply actions  

Gentry

is not at fault, this team is simply who realists thought they would be at the beginning of the year.

If you dump Gentry you do it in the offseason so a new coach can come in in the best situation. This season is lost anyway.

The only reason I would dump Gentry is to get someone like Jeff Van Gundy that could really change the mindset of the team for a post-Nash era. I do not rate JVG highly overall but for that reason I would consider him.

If the Suns wanted a great coach they should have fired Gentry this year when Rick Adelman was available.

by TruthTelling on Feb 1, 2012 12:51 AM MST reply actions  

Or you dump him now and get the "dumped coach boost"

And get to see what the replacements (Elston Turner or Thunder Dan) are capable of.

It isn’t Gentry’s fault, but he’s proven not to be a great coach (of which, in the NBA, there are really just two in recent history – Popovich and Phil Jackson).

Coaches are much of a muchness, but if you have a coach who isn’t great (most coaches aren’t great), and you plan on dumping him anyway, having a free trial run of the assistants isn’t a terrible idea.

by MMotherwell on Feb 1, 2012 3:40 AM MST up reply actions  

except that..

the Suns are in no need for the dumped coach boost as they are out of the playoff picture anyway no matter what…

and you cannot evaluate a coach based on a fracture of a season anyway, if you replace him do it in the offseason but you better not promote Thunder Dan, he does not have the makings of a headcoach.

This team is this bad, they are in my opinion actually worse than what the record is right now. I see no reason to dump Gentry based on that. He is a good communicator and I can think of much worse coaches for a rebuilding project.

Not to mention firing Gentry will cost the Suns money which is not a good thing either.

by TruthTelling on Feb 1, 2012 4:20 AM MST up reply actions  

I like the idea of giving Elston Turner a look as interim coach

He interviewed for Suns head coach before and has interviewed for other NBA head coaching positions. Maybe the intention all along was to bring him in as Gentry’s eventual replacement as the team tries to empasize defense more. Of course, the defense hasn’t actually improved this season, so there’s that…..

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

Paranoid thought:

Maybe he sabotaged the Suns season to have an opportunity…:)

Joking of course…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

It's always a strange situation

When a person who has been interviewed for the job you hold is then brought in as a subordinate. I’m not sure “sabotage” is the right word, but I’m sure Turner sees all kinds of things that he’d do differently and, he thinks, better than what Gentry is doing. Wonder if he and Babby/Blanks ever discuss such things…….

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Very, very interesting. I’d definitely choose him over our other assistants. Of course, you hope it wouldn’t be a Porter situation.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

IF his defensive coaching prowess is any indication of his future potential...

Sarblankabby can’t be listening too much to him…can they…?

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

20 games following a very brief preseason

On a team that has a history of sucking at defense, isn’t enough for me to say that Turner is a bad defensive coach.

Besides, imperfect analogy here, but Mike McCarthy has been a highly successful, Super Bowl-winning head coach for the Packers. He was hired from the 49ers in 2006 after he served as offensive coordinator for the worst offense in the NFL there in 2005. The bottom line isn’t always the bottom line.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Okay...

So what is his claim to fame that makes him a defensive whiz…?

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 12:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I totally agree.

No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.

by Scott Howard on Feb 1, 2012 11:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Much of a muchness? What does that mean?

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 10:58 AM MST up reply actions  

I would love either of the Van Gundys. It looks like Stan Van will be out of a job soon also. I like Gentry, but he doesn’t seem to be a very good coach. He doesn’t seem to coach up the level of his talent, but only do well when surrounded by a very good team.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Yep

I actually thought about including Van Gundy as a possible replacement in the article, but I didn’t want to speculate that far ahead.

You are right though…It certainly looks like Van Gundy is done in Orlando, and if Gentry is let go, I would think he would be a prime candidate to replace him here.

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Makes sense if Gortat is one of the centerpieces of the team going forward

When Gortat talked about his former team’s work ethic and emphasis on D, Stan Van Gundy was the guy he was talking about.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Good point!

Follow me on Twitter @ "thereal7footer"http://twitter.com/#!/thereal7footer"

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Ugh

Stan Van is such a cry baby… Can’t stand him even though I like him as a coach.

"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!

by Airwave on Feb 1, 2012 2:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, he's definitely a whiney, cry-baby of a coach...

and his voice is akin to nails on a chalk-board. However, he’s also a pretty darn good coach, with a winning record over his career (.650) who has lead his team to the playoffs in all but one of his seasons as a head coach.

He’s no Phil Jackson, but he would be a pretty darn good replacement all things considered…at least in my opinion.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from Gilbert, AZ.
Follow me on Twitter: @thereal7footer

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 3:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Completely agree

He is as good as gone in Orl

"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!

by Airwave on Feb 1, 2012 3:37 PM MST up reply actions  

the sharks are circling...

drama DRAMA drama dRaMa

Following the drama from down unda...

by ZonaFlash on Feb 1, 2012 12:56 AM MST reply actions  

Hey Zona....!

I miss the tearful happy face…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

Still can't stand what's happened since the Western Conference Finals

Is anyone out there with me? Is this one of the weirdest transitions in pro sports. From that great squad that was one non box out by Jason Richardson from going to the Finals to this? Just so bizarre watching all those former Suns flourish around the league while we dwindle away.

True, you can’t blame Gentry. But he also did a lot of this inconsistent lineup dabbling last season, not letting the team get into a rhythm, just like this year. Give it a week or two and settle in, unless someone does something amazing. This pattern of benching guys, then bringing them first off the bench in later games must really mess with guys’ heads.

Either way, the guys look pretty weak. Teams getting open shots, we can’t create shots (except for mighty Steve, at his advanced age). Got to gel as a squad if we have any hope at all of the playoffs.

No more messin' around - time to rise from the ashes!

by Frye (of Victoria, Canada) on Feb 1, 2012 2:20 AM MST reply actions  

I just wish

That marion trade never happened. We would have won that year. I know it. Then I wouldnt have cared what happened to the amares and marions. Trade them for guys of equal talent but without rings. Hungry players
Ugh…..

"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"

by phxpurple on Feb 1, 2012 2:46 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

even if

Jason Richardson boxed out Artest that would have just taken the game to OT. The Suns would have needed more than just that play.

Plays like that happen, they do not decide a series. The Lakers were clearly the better team that year.

by TruthTelling on Feb 1, 2012 2:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Yup.

No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.

by Scott Howard on Feb 1, 2012 11:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Yep, we blew it in those 1st two games

by abandoning our scrappy, balanced approach to play like the 7SOL teams just because the Thunder had some success playing that way against the Lakers.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Feb 1, 2012 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

gentry has shown that when gentry is coaching a team of good players, he wins

when he’s coaching bad players, not so much. i’ve argued this for a while, but do you really think that greg popovich or phil jackson could do a better job if they were forced to rely on guys like ronnie price and shannon brown? look at those lakers teams from 2004-2007. They were essentially terrible, but snuck into the playoffs because kobe was playing at the absolute apex of his career at that point. look at the spurs the season before they drafted duncan. popovich was the coach, but after david robinson went down with an injury they went into all-out suck mode to put themselves in a position to draft a stud.

This is long-winded and kind of rambling, but my point is this: when you fail to assemble a team of talented players, you can’t pin blame on the coach when they don’t win.

If you look at that 2009-2010 team, one of the things that made us so good and so dangerous was that every single player on the team had a specific role, knew what it was, and was comfortable with it. hardly anyone on this year’s team has that kind of certainty, if only because no one (outside of nash and gortat) has proven consistent enough to justify that kind of confidence

in my opinion, we should only think about jettisoning gentry if it becomes apparent that he’s lost control of the team and the players no longer buy into him. i don’t think that is the case. by all accounts, he’s a great guy and players love him. shit, even nash said that the problem is we lack talent.

Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."

~Jack Burton, "Big Trouble in Little China"

by u_must_chill on Feb 1, 2012 6:31 AM MST reply actions  

do you really think that greg popovich or phil jackson could do a better job if they were forced to rely on guys like ronnie price and shannon brown?

Yes. Those guys are much more about system and discipline. Gentry is a veterans’ coach.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Feb 1, 2012 6:41 AM MST up reply actions  

agree

it seems alot of the players were never taught fundamentals. Even if you suck talent wise, you can be good from hustle n defense (Dudley is a great example of this), then as you work on shooting you can be at least a good bench player. We don’t even see this right now.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 8:00 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm going to have to side with Alex

on the Phil Jackson being a better coach than Alvin Gentry debate.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Bold move Cotton.

No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.

by Scott Howard on Feb 1, 2012 11:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Really??

I was hoping Robert Sarver would be the first to go. NO coach in the league could win consistantly with this PHX Suns roster. Until we get a Team President willing to spend more on the team and worry less about the bank account the PHX Suns will Suck and yes, Steve Nash I feel sorry for you.

Steve Nash has my okay to ask for a trade and quit wasting your talents. It will be a hard adjustment for me…but, unless Sarver is willing to bring in some help for you please move on to greener pastures!!

by chuckyj1 on Feb 1, 2012 6:45 AM MST reply actions  

also

not sticking up for Sarver, but players excel in this system, along side Nash, then ask for to much money (JJ, Marion, then Amare, even Steven Hunter did that). Problem is, when they didn’t resign them they let them go with nothing in return.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 8:05 AM MST up reply actions  

So you're saying that the Suns are basically a farm team for the rest of the NBA?

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:06 AM MST up reply actions  

judging by all the former Suns going off on us this season, I’d say yes.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Feb 1, 2012 8:33 AM MST up reply actions  

At least Amare didn't.

Sometimes it seems like every team in the league has a couple former Suns waiting for their turn to light us up….

The sad thing is that some of them are washed up veterans, but they’re still better than our current players…. :(

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 9:00 AM MST up reply actions  

well, on the night they play the Suns they’re still better. But nearly all of them aren’t that good against other teams

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Feb 1, 2012 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

lol really. Sure is annoying.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

Well Sarver’s not talking, and neither is anyone else in the Suns front office for that matter

Can someone who goes to all the games (Scott, Seth, 7footer?) tell me how many games Sarver has attended this year?

I went to Monday’s game, and Sarver was not even there. I’ve been doing a dozen games a year, and while he’s been owner I can count maybe two other times in eight years he wasn’t courtside for a game.

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Feb 1, 2012 6:46 AM MST reply actions  

So that's the reason Phoenix is down to 21st in attendance....
Can someone…… tell me how many games Sarver has attended this year?

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:09 AM MST up reply actions  

actually, according to Coro he was there but is now sitting somewhere else. I didn’t see him but Paul did.

Twitter me at: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Feb 1, 2012 8:33 AM MST up reply actions  

oh really? Is he wearing a Groucho Marx mask too?

Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun

by Alex Laugan on Feb 1, 2012 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

lol

I can’t confirm or deny

Twitter me at: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Feb 1, 2012 8:36 AM MST up reply actions  

guaranteed he burned the big dumb orange foam finger.

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Feb 1, 2012 8:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I thought Scott was supposed to be consulted

prior to the combustion of any entity (animate or inanimate) related to the Suns in any capacity whatsoever? What gives?

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Sarver promised..

..to take a step back and stay in the background. At least I am pretty sure i remember him saying that in an interview. So he is no sitting courtside anymore.

by TruthTelling on Feb 1, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions  

I fear you may be onto something.

“.and I seriously doubt they foresaw this team being this bad.”
If this front office thought that this team could compete for the playoffs then they are more clueless than I thought. But there is doubt they are weak in the Front Office. When you count on your team to have a core of a 38 year old point guard ( a good one, yes) 39 year old 3, ( who can defend ) an a good center ( not great) well, you end up where your at. Compound the fact by replacing Dragic, Lou, Barbosa, Amare, JRich, with the likes of VC, Hak, Chilly, Brown, Price, Telfair and the keeper in Gorat. Then draft Lopez, Earl Clark, and the the one keeper in Morris( who for some reason gets 12 minutes a night). He needs to play, foul trouble, turnovers, what ever, this team is going no where.
Free agents; the two stars are off the table: Westbrook and Love. Eric Gordon will not come in here and save this team, he is a piece.
This Front Office needs to get there collective brains together and build this team through the draft. Get creative, make trades and insist on 1st round picks in return along with players. To think that solely having cap space to lure free agents will turn it around, is not the answer. I understand dollars talk, but what free agent would what to come to a team that is a 13 seed? The stars now all want to piggy back onto another star to build a team; ie, Wade, Bosh, James. In Howard he only wants to go to a contender. In D. Williams he want to go to the Knicks, Mavs, and Lakers. I just don’t see the elite star coming here to play with a 38 year old point guard and nothing else.
It is time to focus on youth and the draft.

by Grockcubs on Feb 1, 2012 7:04 AM MST reply actions  

Good Points. -Suns Were Top Five in 2009 7footer, this is 2012, Not Top 5 No More

The SUNS troubles are in the FO, and with the owner. Vince Carter and Pietrus were the luckiest guys in the NBA because they got the heck out of Phoenix, and it would take a whole lot of money for any good player to want to come to this team.

I will believe Sarver is not a skinflint when I seem them spend some money on talent, and the FO needs a basketball guy in charge not a lawyer/money guy.

by Catamaran1 on Feb 1, 2012 10:50 AM MST up reply actions  

Our recent success has changed...

But the long-standing success of this franchise remains the same. In fact, the Suns now sit with the fourth highest win percentage of all time in the NBA at .558, and we have the highest win percentage of any team that has yet to win a championship…So Hollinger’s ranking of the Suns as the 5th best franchise based on overall accomplishments still applies.

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 AM MST up reply actions  

The burning issue...
So what now Bob?

Yes, Bob, what now?

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:11 AM MST reply actions  

Common business philosophy will tell us...

You always sell high and buy low….That precludes him giving up the team anytime soon…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:06 AM MST up reply actions  

its a curse

starting with the owner, who doesn’t spend. Then the GM, who allows talent to leave with nothing in return. Then the coach, D’Antoni, who trades all our picks away, doesn’t develop what bench he has, or teach any defense; or Gentry, who cannot settle on a squad, teach fundamentals; or Elston who (what does he do?).Then the players, apart from a few, who want to much money, wants to be ‘the go to guy’, doesn’t want to work on defense and just get spoon fed by the greatest PG in the history of the game. weh! Is this like Boston’s ‘Babe’ curse? Or something like that. Only ours is SARVER.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 8:18 AM MST reply actions  

I don't think it's a curse.

There’s a difference between an evil invocation and incompetently inept bungling. The former, in my opinion, is imagined, the latter is your Phoenix Suns.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:25 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

lol, completely agree, Jim

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

No curse.

Sarver’s letter grade is a “D” running this team. That is just bad school work.

by Grockcubs on Feb 1, 2012 8:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Something to consider on the coaching issue.

Even if the Suns conclude that Gentry isn’t their man, midseason might not be the best time to make a move.

The Suns don’t necessarily appear to know which direction they are headed in, and that type of information can be vital to a coaching search. In some instances a team hires a coach first and then builds around him (usually with young, rebuilding teams), but I think usually it is better to get players first and then get a coach that can implement a system that maximizes the existing talent.

Look at examples: The Suns had Nash and crew and Mike D succeeded spectacularly, but he hasn’t had the same results instituting his system in NYC. Likewise, Porter failed miserably at teaching defensive fundamentals to one dimensional players.

The right coach for the right situation.

If the Suns make a coaching change now, they very well might be making another one in the next year or two…

Doesn’t it make more sense to see how the rest of the year plays out with Gentry, see what the roster is going to look like in the offseason, and reassess the situation at that point?

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:21 AM MST reply actions  

I would agree

It’s bad enough, so lets not compound matters. I does look like the FO is going to be force into doing something. Lets pray it benefits the Suns.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 8:29 AM MST reply actions  

Gentry has a great relationship with all the players but he isn’t the right coach for a rebuilding team. As soon as Nash is gone, Gentry would probably be next.

by BritishSun on Feb 1, 2012 8:34 AM MST reply actions  

Good job with this post, Mr 7 Footer. Well handled.

Twitter me at: @sethpo

by Seth Pollack on Feb 1, 2012 8:36 AM MST reply actions  

7F has mad handles.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Um, should I look that one up in the urban dictionary, Jim?

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Feb 1, 2012 8:50 AM MST up reply actions  

1. This is a cutthroat business. while it makes logical sense and it would seem that sarv owes Gentry a chance with a quality roster, there’s no guarantee it will happen. The larger issue here is money. Gentry wont leave money on the table and Sarver wont fire a coach he owes money to (in theory). Perhaps he learned that lesson from Porter.

2. I find the silence from Sarv and Babs deafening. You’d think the franchise owner would say something…Anything…I vote of confidence for Gentry, some words of encouragement to his squad, or perhaps even something nice for the fans. Instead, nothing.

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Feb 1, 2012 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Good observations, Wil..

1. It is a cutthroat business, but the bottom line here is like any other coaching situation— As captain, you go down with the ship, circumstances be damned… It doesn’t matter if the captain himself ran the ship up onto an iceberg, or if the Shipping company gave him a raggedy piece of I honestly think Gentry is probably part of the value metrics that Sarblanabby is running right now. Whatever the beancounters figure out is probably his fate.

2. I’m not sure what these guys can really say in this situation…They can’t say, “we aren’t very good right now, and we aren’t sure we can make it any better for the rest of this season.” And they definitely can’t say, “Let’s all look forward to this off-season.” A vote of confidence for Gentry would be a nice gesture, but ultimately it doesn’t mean much…How many times have we seen where coaches get the axe shortly after a vote of confidence..?

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:02 AM MST up reply actions  

Agree with this

As captain, you go down with the ship, circumstances be damned… It doesn’t matter if the captain himself ran the ship up onto an iceberg, or if the Shipping company gave him a raggedy piece

Sports coaches are routinely blamed for what isn’t their fault. It goes with the territory, fair or not.

Gentry has coached over 900 regular season NBA games and has taken his teams to the playoffs twice, winning a grand total of two playoff series. So, it’s hard to make a case that he’d be hard to replace if the Suns let him go. His track record is one of mediocrity.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Alvin has a mediocre record to be sure...

He has only three winning seasons in his 11 year coaching career (2 of which are with the Suns…). .He hasn’t always had the greatest amount of talent, but he hasn’t exactly been phenominal either…JAside from the 2009/2010 season which I thought he did a good job, He has just kinda floundered about…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Bad Losses.
In the first 20 games of this shortened season, the Suns now stand with a record of 7-13. The Suns already have four to six (depending on how you look at it) bad losses on their books, and only two quality wins. The bad losses include defeats at the hands of the Hornets, Cavaliers, Raptors, Mavericks (Without Dirk Nowitzki), Bulls (Without Derrick Rose), and Nets (without Brook Lopez); and the only two quality wins were against the Trail Blazers and the Grizzlies…both of whom have winning records.

I count 7 (maybe 8).

The 4 home losses to sub .500 teams – NO, Toronto, NJ, and Cleveland

The 2 road blowouts – 21 at Chicago with no Rose and 38 at Portland (losing anywhere to anyone by 38 is a bad loss)

The home blowout by 23 to Dallas (you could maybe even put the loss by 20 to Philly on here – losing by 20 at home is embarrassing).

Not all of those are atrocious in terms of the opponent, but given the circumstances and nature of the losses they can probably be categorized as bad losses.

That’s 8 out of 20 games which have produced this type of result.

To maintain equipoise in analysis, I think you could make the argument that the Cetics road game was a quality win. The Celtics reversed course right after that game and have clawed back to .500. The Celtics are only a half game behind the Grizzlies and that was a road game.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 8:49 AM MST reply actions  

i think any time you go out east in the winter and win on another squads home floor, it’s a quality win. Especially with this Suns team.

Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx

by Wil Cantrell on Feb 1, 2012 8:51 AM MST up reply actions  

Good point Jim

I went strictly by records but yes, you could certainly argue that some of these blowouts against good team should count as bad losses as well. And yes, you could also argue that wins against both the Celtics and the Knicks on the road, even though they both have losing records, could be considered quality wins since we beat them on the road.

But even if we count those additional games, the Suns still have almost twice as many bad losses as quality wins so far.

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 9:02 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

those losses..

are only bad if you are overrating our team. This is a bad team, it is nothing unusual that we lost the games we did.

by TruthTelling on Feb 1, 2012 10:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Philly counts.

They were down by 34 at one point. That game is the worst I’ve seen (I didn’t watch a second of the Portland murder)

No longer trying to light Vince Carter on fire.

by Scott Howard on Feb 1, 2012 11:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I think Gentry is ok for now. He is a players coach who is not afraid to mix things up. Not to mention he has had success in Phx when he had a decent squad. And all the players like him, even Chilly who has gotten the shaft more than any other player on the team. They never bad mouth him. Gentry is not the problem. Its the combo of players that are on the team.

by FourHorseman on Feb 1, 2012 9:10 AM MST reply actions  

Good article, big guy...

I was actually sitting thinking aobut how our team wold have done this year if we had another prominent name coach (Rick Adelman, etc…). I went through a lot lof mental masturbation before I came to the conclusion that probably the best this team would be even under optimal circumstances is 10-10.

Personally, I feel Gentry hasn’t been given a lot to work with this year. Even Phil Jackson probably couldn’t get this team that much further along than what Gentry has done. But like the old saying. “it costs to be the boss…” Gentry may very well end up being the sacrificial lamb on this season…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 AM MST reply actions  

You deal the hand you are dealt

or in this case a start of the season with no training camp and players on one year deals and which coach out there is going to coach this collection of so called tallent to anything better than our current 7-13.From the start of the season we knew this was going to be a hard season and we were looking at 8th seed at best. I say ride out the season get better tallent in free agency and then see if he is our coach of the future.

Persoanlly i think he is an ok coach nothing special like Pop or really bad like Rambis.
he needs to improve his in game management better with less complaining and more coaching.

"SIR ALEX FERGUSON" Greatest Manager of all time

by phxuk: Ap on Feb 1, 2012 10:24 AM MST reply actions  

Hmm....
You deal the hand you are dealt

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

wow, really depressing to read that Hollinger article, getting flashbacks to every miserable moment I can remember.

But yeah I think Gentry’s attitude lately is telling. Things CAN’T be good between him and the FO. He is a player’s coach but I don’t see him wanting to rile the FO either. So whatever’s happening is probably significant.

Crashing the [message] boards from the swamps of Louisiana, and blogging Phoenix Suns!

by PHXgp on Feb 1, 2012 10:38 AM MST reply actions  

Sarver is the Man

Gentry is not the one that sold all the first round picks for 1 mil or traded them away to get rid of a player who was making more than the minimum. If you don’t have the money, don’t buy the team. He bought this team for attention, like when he was on the court waving that damn finger.
Don’t fire Gentry, fire Sarver.

by TheTruthSquad on Feb 1, 2012 10:43 AM MST reply actions  

My biggest concern on Gentry is his ability to develop players

You might argue Dragic, Lopez are not good pieces to develop, but I’ve mention that a guy like Greg Popovich can make those 2 great role players, why? Because he does something Gentry does not, he plays his players strengths, Trying to make a passer out of Brooks is just wasting his shot resulting on lot of bad passes, Dudley a SG? He is too slow and he is not a sharpshooter besides he’s “defense” has not been there since WCF, Warrick SF ? He should be getting offensive rebounds using his great leaping ability.

Gentry is one curious case, but he is not a great coach because he lacks of fundamentals and don’t forger he was part of this team when we refuse to get picks and develop rookies.

Proof? Let see where Marieff stands up at the end of the season, will he able to get over all of his rookie mistakes ?

roses are red violets are blue, Michael Redd is coming for you!

by Lino Canaan on Feb 1, 2012 10:59 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Good points. Our younguns sure haven’t developed much the last few years. And Dragic is doing better for Houston than he did while he was here, barring one playoff series.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Morris

From the start Morris should have had more plays drawn up in the post, wheather he was consistant or not, keep feeding him down low. At least I think this is what to do with an athletic PF, on a team desperate for a rebounding PF. Like DeJuan Blair (he doesn’t dominate in the post, but that is his natural position and he is getting better at it each year).Pop stays with him, even when he fails. I know Morris is more of a shooter, so shoot from the 10’ area to help open up the paint. Amare was a great shooter and he never shot any 3s.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

That would help, RD. We just look totally lost on offense, except the Nash-Gortat PNR.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 2:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice job on this thread 7footer.

I don’t blame gentry or the coaching staff. It’s like nash has said, we lack talent to win games right now.

At some point we"ll have to address that isuue. It’ll most likely be after the season where the front office has been planning to spend in free agency. Hopefully we have a blockbuster draft night with at least 1-2 aquisitions as the free agency talent pool continues to decline. I’d like to add eric gordon and two draft picks in order to call it a successful off-season.

Agree with everybody’s posts above regarding the current state of our suns,nobody is wrong with what they’ve already said. This team needs to make some changes, but gentry isn’t necessarily one of them right now.

by jay humphries on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 AM MST reply actions  

On the list of what's wrong with the Suns,

replacing Gentry doesn’t seem to be of imperious urgency. I guess to redress things one has to start somewhere, but firing Gentry seems akin to repairing drywall in a burning building. I think there are bigger fires to fight right now.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

I think a lot of us feel that way right now...

The question is, does the front office feel the same way?

Follow me on Twitter @ "thereal7footer"http://twitter.com/#!/thereal7footer"

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Not quite...

You’ll find that many times firefighters rip out drywall during the course of the fire to prevent hidden fires for restarting the blaze…Look it up….

As captain of the Lusitania, methinks Alvin’s days are numbered…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Ignore this comment....you did say repair"...

I keep thinking in terms of “ripping up” lately…

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

The analogy could still work though though...

Let me give it a shot:

If the Suns are the burning building, and Gentry is a piece of drywall that has yet to catch fire but could potentially make the fire worse (not the source of the team’s problems, but could contribute to them), then taking him out and throwing a little Van Gundy (water) on the flames might be an option to keep the fire from spreading.

In all seriousness though, I actually like Alvin Gentry, but I wouldn’t against there being other coaches out there who could probably do more with less. If the front office believes that a different coach could at least make this team respectable without having to add additional players to the payroll right now, I could definitely see them pulling the trigger.

Follow me on Twitter @ "thereal7footer"http://twitter.com/#!/thereal7footer"

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:49 AM MST up reply actions  

You said a mouthful there...

make this team respectable without having to add additional players to the payroll right now, I could definitely see them pulling the trigger.

Put them (and us) out of their misery route, huh?

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:54 AM MST up reply actions  

I think we've gotten to the bottom of this arcanum

thanks to your vulpine analysis:

“Chinese drywall” refers to an environmental health issue involving defective drywall manufactured in China and imported to the United States starting in 2001.

Gentry is the head coaching equivalent of Chinese drywall. Not only that, but according to EBR’s Coro column he’s also an arsonist who’s partly responsible for the building fire in the first place.

Great catch, 7F!

I don’t know about you, but I’ve made my decision. Gentry’s gotta go!

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 12:32 PM MST up reply actions  

dry wall is fire resistant.

by 2NASHTY on Feb 1, 2012 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Only Type "C" and Type "X" drywall is classsified as fire-resistant.

These have fiberglass and other core additives to increase the fire resistance. Normal Drywall itself has some thermal resistance properties hence natural fire resistance, but it is not fire-proof…

How it hanging anyway, 2N…?

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

7 footer, i think the fans certainly think that way, the front office doesn’t . They are most likely afraid to admit their mistakes handling player aquisitions(aside from gortat and morris) and overpaying certain players for one good season(frye and chilldress).

Sooner or later they"ll have to address these concerns by the fans, it will only get uglier until they do. i think they need to really put some pressure on their scouting department(lindsey hunter is a suns scout now?) to give them the best incoming information on prospects in this deep 2012 draft.

I have to wonder, if we fail to sign any quality free agents this off-season, will the front office re-sign nash and possibly hill to max contracts saying that’s just as good as getting a dwight howard or russell westbrook?

by jay humphries on Feb 1, 2012 11:42 AM MST reply actions  

Wow, from Coro's story when the Suns signed Gentry to his extension

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/09/23/20100923phoenix-suns-alvin-gentry-contract-extension2010.html

Gentry earned the extension with his summer work nearly as much as his coaching, which occurred before the current president, GM and director of player personnel were hired. Gentry had a bigger voice in the June draft room with outgoing management and then assisted Sarver with management decisions in July regarding Amar’e Stoudemire’s negotiations, Josh Childress’ and Hakim Warrick’s signings and trading Leandro Barbosa for Hedo Turkoglu. Gentry’s statement said the extension “shows I’m working for an owner who wants to win and demonstrates the confidence he has in me.”

So, uh, yeah. Those moves in the summer of 2010 were not exactly smashing successes.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from California wine country.
Twitter: @EastBayRaymundo

by East Bay Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:55 AM MST reply actions  

I forgot about that...Nice find!

This gives him culpability with the current makeup of this team as well…He can’t just claim to be “playing the cards he was dealt”.

Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from Gilbert, AZ.
Follow me on Twitter: @thereal7footer

by 7footer on Feb 1, 2012 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Right.

This gives credence to the philosophy of “coaches coach, and general managers generally manage…”

Let's do this...!

by Daryl Ray on Feb 1, 2012 11:59 AM MST up reply actions  

I fixed this for you.
He can’t just claim to be "playing dealing the cards he was dealt".

But the real credit goes to phxuk.

It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.

by Jim Coughenour on Feb 1, 2012 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

If they don't re-sign Nash next summer then I assume they want to re-build

If that is the case then bring in a new coach.

Gentry is like the opposite of Scott Skiles. One is great with young teams and the other veteran teams, but eventually you got to get rid of them.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Feb 1, 2012 1:15 PM MST reply actions  

prediction

FO goes into complete re-build mode. Trade Nash (grrrrr) and Hill for whatever pic they can get in return. Their line of thinking will be this, ‘Brooks and Dudley give a decent back court, with Gortat and Morris as the foundation in the front court’ They will say something like ‘we tried to stay competitive while rebuilding, but it wasn’t happening’.

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 2:00 PM MST reply actions  

You think we can get a hot pic of Maria Sharapova? She might not help as much as a pick of Barnes or Gilchrist or Jones. She’s hot though, or at least was back in the day.

Just messin with ya.

by BringBackBarkley17 on Feb 1, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions  

That would be the only 'hot pic' the FO could muster

BTW, thats not my wishes, only how much faith i have right now. Trading Nash and Hill is the absolute worse thing they could do, so that would fit right in with what they are doing

by rdgroce on Feb 1, 2012 2:55 PM MST up reply actions  

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