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Rumors of a Dwight/STAT swap, should the Suns get involved to start the rebuild?


http://dimemag.com/2012/01/nba-rumors-knicks-bulls-and-warriors-potential-destinations-for-dwight-howard/

The above article suggests that the Knicks might be interested in trading for Dwight Howard (who isn't?) with a package centered around Amar'e Stoudemire. Here are a few thoughts on that potential trade:

1) If the Knicks had Anthony and Howard, they'd need some floor spacing, the article suggests Chandler can play power-forward but all three of those guys operate best on the block, a certain way to stagnate an offense.

2) The trade as proposed probably wouldn't net the magic enough back to let them contend, but wouldn't allow them to rebuild either, leaving the magic in a lower-seed no-mans land (sound familiar?)

3) Howard on the Knicks would basically ensure Deron Williams became a free agent. I can't see any situation where Howard declines to take more money to play in New York with Carmelo Anthony (a guy he once said would be the guy in the league he'd most like to play with). Leaving Deron Williams as the only Marquee free-agent and no big-markets with cap space, meaning that he'd then have to choose between smaller markets with the deciding factor most likely being the quality of their supporting casts.

These thoughts led me to come up with the following piece of rosterbation

Star-divide

Knicks Get:

Dwight Howard

Channing Frye

Hedo Turkoglu

Incoming Salary: $33,349, 243

Outgoing Salary: $32, 780, 825

Why the knicks do it?

They get to add Dwight Howard, who wouldn't do it? Frye can space the floor for Anthony and Howard to work on the block and doesn't have to worry about defense with Howard behind him. Turkoglu's salary is the price to pay to take on Dwight but the Knicks as the NBA's richest team should be able to stomach the blow, and he would probably be the best passer on the team.

Magic Get:

Steve Nash

Amar'e Stoudemire

Tyson Chandler

Grant Hill

Incoming Salary: $49, 406, 767

Outgoing Salary: $43, 799, 399

Why would the Magic do it?

Reports on what the Magic want for Dwight say that they want to remain competitive if possible, and don't want to rebuild. The haul for Dwight would basically give them the starting lineup of the Suns 2010 WCF team just with a better center (imagine how far the Suns could have gone with Chandler instead of a hobbled Robin Lopez two seasons ago). Definitely a good haul for a player who is almost guaranteed to leave at the end of the season.

Suns get:

Iman Shumpert

Ryan Anderson

JJ Redick (2012-13 Team Option)

Jameer Nelson (2012-13 Player Option)

Tony Douglas

The next available first round pick from the magic and Knicks, likely selections in the 20s

Incoming Salary: $18, 758, 999

Outgoing Salary: $23, 789, 062

Why the Suns do it:

Rebuilding is inevitable for the Suns. It probably won't happen until after this season but it will happen. This trade does three things:

1) It lands Nash in a favourable situation, definitely a concern of the front office if they eventually decide to trade him. Nash has often said that he wouldn't want to be traded because of having to gel with new teammates, but Nash has played with these guys before and would almost certainly be able to make some noise in the playoffs.

2) It lands the Suns young talent on cheap contracts. Sure, we don't get a player of Derrick Williams' caliber like the rumor over the summer which would have seen Nash sent to Minnesota for the #2 pick, but it doesn't send Nash to a basketball wasteland either. Shumpert (14.5ppg, 4.5rpg) is an athletic guard who the Suns were very interested in before the draft, Douglas (13.7ppg, 4.7apg) is by no means an heir apparent to Nash but is definitely a talented player, and Ryan Anderson (19.7ppg, 7.4rpg) is a floor-stretching big man. All three of these guys are on cheap rookie deals.

3) It lands the Suns cap space to sign a big name ( Deron Williams is the biggest) in the summer. JJ Redick has a team option, and while he's a good player, we'd be stacked at the wings and should decline it. Jameer Nelson has a player option which he'd hopefully decline, or we could move him for a draft pick or in a trade to upgrade at another position. If both of these options was declined, Phoenix could afford two near max free agents this summer.

The Hunt for Deron Williams

Imagine you are Deron Williams in the Summer of 2012. The best free agent on the market after Dwight Howard re-signs with the Knicks and Chris Paul accepts his option to play in LA. You have spent the last two years playing on a terrible team in a basketball wasteland and you want to win. The option of forming a superteam isn't open to you, all the other superstars are either paired up or on teams with no cap space for you to join. You are therefore looking for a team that can afford to sign you, hasn't gutted its roster to do so, and maintains assets and flexibility to add to the team either through Free Agency or Trade. This is where the Suns come in...

A high lottery pick, Gortat, Lopez, Anderson, Morris, Dudley, Douglas, Shumpert, and whatever remains of Warrick, Childress, Nelson and Redick and you have a team full of high-level role players but no real star to build around. Imagine adding Deron Williams and Kevin Love to that roster, or signing Williams and trading for Danny Granger, Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala. Isn't that a roster that could contend?

If this trade went down, Phoenix would be absolutely terrible for the rest of the season, but would be perfectly primed to quickly improve this offseason. It would achieve the dual goals of landing Nash in a favorable situation for the rest of his career and setting the Suns up for a brighter future.

Potential 2012-13 Suns Roster

PG- Deron Williams/ Toney Douglas

SG- Free Agent, Trade or Lottery Pick/ Dudley/ Shumpert

SF- Free Agent, trade or Lottery Pick/ Dudley/ Childress/ Warrick

PF- Anderson/ Morris/ Warrick

C- Gortat/ Lopez

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I'll admit

Although not awesome, that’s a good return for a package of Steve Nash, Grant Hill and Channing Frye. I’d do it.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jan 6, 2012 1:28 PM MST reply actions  

However, I don't think we'd need 3 PG's.

If we can make the trade without Nelson, then awesome.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jan 6, 2012 1:29 PM MST up reply actions  

I think we'd have to take him to make the salary math work

But i can’t be sure because the trade machine is down. I agree we wouldn’t need him, and ideally his salary would be off the books by the offseason to give us more cap space and give the young guys more floor time, that would be the whole point of trading Nash after all.

by DaveJD on Jan 6, 2012 1:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Aren't the Knicks rumored to be the destination of all players?

Anyway I think in the end Nash will be traded to NY for Shumpert, Suns liked Shumpert at the draft and the Knicks probably only drafted him for a Nash package.

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley

by Suns R Us on Jan 6, 2012 1:38 PM MST reply actions  

Shumpert is a fan favorite in NY...

Knicks are already on the hot seat in NY. They got boo’ed by the fans when Charlotte blew them out. On one hand, they might not want to part with a rookie showing promise to get Nash for 2 years…however, 2 years might be NY’s window to make something happen before Amare and Melo demand trades. Plus, I think this is D’Antoni’s last year of his contract with NY, right? If so, they might be desperate to trade up for Nash, and then Nash resigns on the cheap for next season.

by DaMax85 on Jan 6, 2012 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

I've given this more thought

The Knicks can’t really spare to lose both Shumpert and Douglas. They could only give us just one and it’d have to be Shumpert. We don’t really need Reddick either, unless he’s needed to match salaries. Also, do they even have a first round pick?

Nelson, Shumpert, Anderson (replaces Frye) and two 2012 first round picks. Not bad for that package. Plus, our own pick would become much higher with that trade.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jan 6, 2012 1:48 PM MST reply actions  

This is just rosterbation.

The Magic get significantly older in this deal….Not happening…

STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!

by Daryl Ray on Jan 6, 2012 2:09 PM MST reply actions  

If that happened...

then the Orlando Magic would feel more like the Phoenix Suns than the Phoenix Suns.

by DaMax85 on Jan 6, 2012 2:20 PM MST reply actions  

Another thought...

If Howard goes to NY for Amare, would that spell the end for D’Antoni’s system in NY?

by DaMax85 on Jan 6, 2012 2:23 PM MST reply actions  

Not if he moved to Orlando....

STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!

by Daryl Ray on Jan 6, 2012 2:26 PM MST up reply actions  

We should hire D'Antoni

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley

by Suns R Us on Jan 6, 2012 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Dan D'Antoni

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 7, 2012 12:08 AM MST up reply actions  

J/K

If Redd pans out. which I think he will, more than expected since he has much to prove, this leaves suns with much to bargin with, if this were their route to go.

by rdgroce on Jan 6, 2012 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Love It!!!

but D-Williams is rumored to go to the Mavs. but i’m sure a Westbrook or someone else would come to Phoenix with this line up

by miketheboss on Jan 6, 2012 4:28 PM MST reply actions  

This is banking on dwill coming to phx

Which he wont. He can just stay in with the nets. They have the money and there a big market. Plus the nets are tryong to get cousins and trying to get love in FA. Either way the nets are above of and dwill has never said anything about phx
Final verdict: poop trade

"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"

by phxpurple on Jan 6, 2012 9:50 PM MST via Android app reply actions  

Actually

This isnt that bad. Still a major risk. But at this point it is proactive and better.
New verdict: not a poop trade

"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"

by phxpurple on Jan 6, 2012 9:57 PM MST via Android app up reply actions  

This trade is actually good, IMO.

This is the first traded I’ve seen where it makes sense for all teams. Knicks get the big prize, even though it makes their team worse (shhh, dont tell them that), it actually IMPROVES the Magic, even if it makes them older, but lets be real; it gives them a killer starting five (that i would love to see back in a suns uniform) and its the best return for them that I’ve seen in all the trade rumors. The reason I see the Magic not doing this trade is that they have reservations about Amare’s health. The Suns get the short end of the stick in this trade as far as overall talent, but get young, slightly above-average talent and maybe a pick or two. Love it. The only thing with the 2012 roster is that I would pick up Redick’s option.

by LouDub on Jan 6, 2012 11:12 PM MST reply actions  

I like this trade

Or at least I like Beavis’ rework of it (above).

The Knicks land the superstar they really wanted, giving up the 2nd-option they settled for (Amare) to get him.

The Magic get a ready-made team that can contend instantly for 2 years. Are they really going to get something better than this for Howard? Doubt it…

The Suns end with a high lottery pick, a player they liked (Shumpert), an upgrade for Channing, and more picks in future years.

Nash and Hill wind up with a contending team, so they aren’t hung out to dry.

I don’t think this could happen, because the Knicks overvalue Tyson Chandler significantly, but in the long run this makes sense for all the teams involved.

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 7, 2012 12:14 AM MST reply actions  

LOL @ the Magic's lineup after the trade...

Nash/Richardson/Hill/Stoudemire/Chandler… this looks… familiar…

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 7, 2012 12:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes I remember advocating for getting him

and there was a lot of “we don’t need another broken down old vet on the team”

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 7, 2012 3:22 AM MST up reply actions  

and then if we resigned him

we wouldn’t have needed to trade JRich.

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley

by Suns R Us on Jan 7, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Nelson can't play with Gortat

That was proven over and over again in Orlando.

Alea iacta est!

by PolishHammer on Jan 7, 2012 5:47 AM MST reply actions  

This

he makes that whole team worse

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 9, 2012 12:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Only thing is I dont want and more orlando players

Weve had only a 25% rate of success when then come here.
Peaches suck
Carter suck
Hedo suck
Gortat boom
Well at least if ur not including grant hill. But thats another era lol

"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"

by phxpurple on Jan 7, 2012 8:18 AM MST via Android app reply actions  

This deal sucks for us

Shumpert is alright, sure, but Ryan Anderson is not Kevin Love. He needs a real inside threat to be effective on O and a dominant rebounder to clean up after, otherwise he’s exactly like Channing. I don’t even doubt for a second that Frye would be close to 20 and 9 next to Dwight. Other than Shumpert we get a chucker (Nelson), a chucker squared (Douglas) and JJ Redick (JJ Redick). More of what we already have and absolutely don’t need.

I’d rather trade RoLo to the Wolves for Beasley.

Beas is not only off to an unlucky start (broken finger, open looks just not falling) but also has last year’s 2nd pick to compete with. And that 2nd pick seems to be Rubio’s go to guy along with Love. Beas is trying, had a complete makeover this Summer, but I think what he needs the most is scorching hot Decembers.

Nash – Dudley – Beasley – Morris – Gortat (bench 5: Price, Brown, Hill, Frye)

WE WOULD RUN LIKE THE WIND AND EVEN DEFEND SOMETIMES PROBABLY.

CAN YA DIG IT? I sure can. And I’m sure Wolves would dig a bench project big that doesn’t foul out in 5 second flat (sup Pek).

by rzyn on Jan 7, 2012 9:13 AM MST reply actions  

I hate this.

Not because I am a die hard Nash fan but because the trade sucks for us. Essentially what you want to do is trade away arguably our three best players for the POSSIBILITY that we will get some superstar talent in the draft. Even if that DOES happen, there is ZERO guarentee that it pans out in the long run. No. I would rather bank on some big man free agent wanting to play with Nash for 3 years in PHX because he likes the bench play and knows we have something worth investing in.

My theory is that the need for all free agents to be on 1 of 4 teams in the NBA will die out and non-big-5 teams will suddenly be much desired places.

"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011

by N8lol on Jan 7, 2012 11:19 PM MST reply actions  

What big men? THERE ARE NONE.

No one wants to come to a small market team to play with a 38 year old point guard and a 40 year old small forward. Only homers such as us here on bsots think that. On top of that the only big men out there worth getting will be restricted (Love), and their current teams will match. If you make a trade like this it sets us up rebuild via the draft which is the only way we get good again. If you look at the history of the league you win championships through the draft. Hell look at our SSoL team key players: Marion drafted by suns, AMARE, drafted by suns, Nash, drafted by suns (lucky to get him back), J.Johnson suns traded for him in his rookie year thus basically drafting him, Barbosa we traded for on draft day thus drafting him ourselves. The draft is KEY to building a championship caliber team for smaller market teams, so all these pipe dreams of free agents coming here really need to stop. And say “well we got Nash to come back” because that was in all honesty a fluke. At the time he was a good but not great point guard with health concerns whom we overpaid. Of course the draft requires luck but if you don’t prime yourself to optimize the draft then you’re completely screwing your future.

by LouDub on Jan 8, 2012 4:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Reverdict again

Poop trade

"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"

by phxpurple on Jan 8, 2012 10:39 AM MST via Android app reply actions  

Wait, but what happens if Deron Williams doesn't come here?

Then the entire trade is screwed.

Joe Saunders: "They Giants played a really good game, so hats off to us"

by Skii on Jan 8, 2012 10:48 AM MST reply actions  

See my comment to n8lol

This trade to me is all about the draft picks and nice tradable pieces like redick, Nelson, etc.

by LouDub on Jan 8, 2012 4:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Anything that keeps Dwight from going the the Fakers

is worth considering.

Voted most likely to say "I told you so"

by jc79 on Jan 9, 2012 12:07 AM MST reply actions  

True..>True...

thought of Dwight on NJ makes me much more comfortable than if he was stretching out a Lakers jersey….

STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....! BTW, If positivity is a crime, I plead guilty by reason of T-Bird...!

by Daryl Ray on Jan 9, 2012 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

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