Trade Idea: Nash+Gortat for Rondo+Jermaine Oneal expiring deal+ Boston first round pick
by Chambers on Feb 13, 2012 10:31 AM MST
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This has been coming up a lot over on the Celtics blog.
They feel that if they could get a legit role playing big man that can score (or someone even better in Gortat's case), the Celtics could have a real shot at winning this year given the Bulls injury problems.
They got off to a bad start with a bit of lockout rust but their defense is back to its best lately.
Would the suns take the mentioned deal? Ship out Nash and Gortat to get a young all star caliber Point guard in Rondo, a first round pick, and Jermaine Oneal's expiring deal (6 million).
Gives the Celtics the scoring PG they'd like for one or two years in Nash as well as a big upgrade on Jermaine Oneal.
Suns wipe Jermaine next year, get Rondo and a pick in range from 15-25 first round.
Celtics fans seem to think Gortat is good, but overrated because Nash has been getting him the ball so easily and once Nash leaves Phoenix, Gortats stock will go down in Phoenix front offices eyes...
Thoughts on trade? Yay or Nay?
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Haha oh man they would definitely win a title
I’d want more picks. Maybe their first In 2013 as well? Not sure if they have that pick though
by forget on Feb 13, 2012 12:00 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Rondo is like Gortat...
…in reverse, he’s really really good, because he gets to feed guys that drain shots and play well. Also, the defense must play him honest because of the talent around him…If you try building a team with him as the centerpiece, you will fail…Also, I would want the Clippers pick too, were the deal to happen…
by Michael A. Xidis on Feb 13, 2012 1:03 PM MST reply actions
Lol thats a nice take on rondo
He was built around his team not the other way around. Ray allen pierce and garnet arent creating their shots anymore. They just spot up and wait for passes. Of you put nash and gortat on theor team they are championship contenders for sure. Unless they give us that clippers pick I say no deal. We get down graded at the point and lose a top 10 maybe higher center. Those picks wont allow us to get another good caliber center since theyll be 20-25 range but 2 of them would be nice and maybe we can use them to land another star via trade. Wish they wanted rolo though. Hed be good on a slower tempo’d defensive team with a decent pg. I trade rolo and take back a bad contract but one of those first rounders. Or whatever other player they want from us not named gortat or nash
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 13, 2012 2:28 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Those 3 still create shots for themselves
particularly Pierce. He can still get to his spots like nobody’s business. Too bad he’s such a crybaby poser douchebag.
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Yes, they can create...
…shots for themselves. However, the reason Rondo is an All-star caliber player is because he has 3 guys around him doing it. Nash has…well…Nash has absolutely no one and makes everyone around him better. Rondo can’t do that for the nobodies on our roster, and the nobodies that will be on our roster for the foreseeable future. He looks great as the 3rd or 4th guy, but how will he look as #1…My guess is he’ll revert to his pre-Big3 self.
by Michael A. Xidis on Feb 14, 2012 5:31 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with this
If we could get Rondo without giving up Gortat, than I’d totally do it, but the Celtics wouldn’t.
Don't trade Dudley!
Would need way more than that
need multiple HIGH 1st round picks, Rondo, Bass, and they would need to take back Warrick and Frye. We would then amnesty Chilly.
Their picks won’t be any good.
by hubertdavisfor3 on Feb 13, 2012 2:20 PM MST reply actions
No way
Our 2 best players for a late 1st round pick. Sweet.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Boston 2012 (and 2014 1st round pick if possible) 1st round pick plus Rondo, Bass and Avery Bradley
They also need to take the contract of Frye or Childress.
Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... -Morte, Planescape Torment
No f*ckin way this trade will happen.
I don't know what to put in my sig.
by shawndy on Feb 13, 2012 4:36 PM MST reply actions 4 recs
Agreed.
Nothing more need be said.
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
I love NBA trades
it’s like weighing up weapons in a gladiator fight.
Trident + Net vs.
short sword and shield vs.
lion.
Good luck weighing that up.
really the discussion is how about how you value player attributes, and that’s interesting discussion even if trades don’t happen.
Following the drama from down unda...
I guess we are all being too greedy...
I don’t see teams giving up a sweet contract like Rondo’s for a guy who’s gonna give them 1 or 2 years of service.
Rondo ain’t a superstar, but he can be the number two cog on a contender, he just needs run and gun players than can run with him all night unlike the current dinosaurs he’s playing with. He tries his best to cater to them but they’re just a bit too past it now to suit his game.
It’s either send away Rondo and try and get one more flag, then rebuild with Gortat.
Or keep Rondo and put athletes sprinkled in with shooters around him to rebuild the franchise in a fast break offense like the Heat/OKC.
From a Boston fans perspective (biased obviously):
we are trading Rondo+pick for Gortat, and Nash is thrown in because although he is great, you aren’t going to get much more for Nash in a trade anyway given his age, and his defense is simply terrible. He’d be there as a complimentary piece to pass to Pierce and Ray, and shoot from the Elbow where Rondo can’t, for 1 or 2 years instead of 5-8
So basically
Nash for Jermaine O’Neal (why is he still in the league?) and an expiring contract……. You get the 2 best players in the deal (I don’t like Rondo’s attitude and both Nash & Gortat are good leaders and hard workers). The Suns lose 2 very good players for 1 in return. The only thing this does is put our team in the bottom 3 in the league IMO and gives the Celtics a chance for another ring. 2 things I don’t want to see happen.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
I may also be biased but
the only thing rondo has on Nash is his age… granted any GM would jump at a swap of Rondo for Nash, but Nash will bring something to Boston, Rondo in PHX without Gortat and we’re in trouble. I don’t see rondo as being a player we can build around. I do agree that a package involving a player like rondo for Nash is as good as we’ll get…that’s why IMO nash will remain a sun.
I would be fine with a package for Rondo and Nash
But to give up Gortat as well for only a late first rounder and an expiring contract (oh, and the beast Jermaine himself…. a few years past his prime to say the least) in return is just too much for me.
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Sam Amick said Nash is close to being available to trade
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
there was nothing new in that article. Nash giving no inclination to want a trade, and the Suns giving no inclination they want to trade him.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Maybe
only if you include Bass and Avery Bradley and take Frye or Chilly.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
lol you are dreaming on that, C's can't take on that much salary
they wouldn’t take those bums either.
Yea even ill admit that
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 14, 2012 10:25 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Plus Rondo had 32 points, 15 asts and 10 rbds yesterday, on 50 % fg shooting.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Wow
Hasnt nash done that like twice this season
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 13, 2012 6:51 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3103/gamelog
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Im on SB mobile so I cant be swayed with your fancy links
What does it say?
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 14, 2012 10:26 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
It says whle still an absolute beast,
Steve hasn’t put up 30 and 15 even once this season.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Ill take his consistency though
Rondo can give you 25 one night
And the 6 in another.
Nashes season averages are what he puts up nightly. Less volatility
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 15, 2012 12:42 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
This is Nash's Game Log
Regular Season
Date Opponent Pts Ast
Feb 13 @ GSW 7 14
Feb 11 @ SAC 4 15
Feb 9 HOU 14 13
Feb 7 @ MIL 18 11
Feb 6 @ ATL 24 11
Feb 4 CHA 11 10
Feb 3 @ HOU 6 9
Feb 1 @ NOR 30 10
Jan 28 MEM 21 6
Jan 27 @ POR 5 7
Jan 24 TOR 17 14
Jan 23 @ DAL 8 12
Jan 20 @ BOS 11 9
Jan 18 @ NYK 26 11
Jan 17 @ CHI 25 9
Jan 15 @ SAS 20 10
Jan 13 NJN 0 0
Jan 12 CLE 16 15
Jan 10 @ LAL 13 8
Jan 8 MIL 10 17
Jan 6 POR 17 9
Jan 4 @ DAL 15 12
Jan 2 GSW 21 9
Dec 31 @ OKC 8 6
Dec 30 @ NOR 7 12
Dec 28 PHI 4 1
Dec 26 NOR 14 12
Voted most likely to say "I told you so"
Minus the boards
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 13, 2012 6:52 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Should I be the first to call Rondo a statwhore?
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
why is he a stat whore?
He’s also first team NBA defense…
I don’t understand what Suns fans think they’re gonna get for Nash at this point in his career, it’s like the Celtics asking for something for Garnett- their age means their value is way below true value.
I guess for suns fans, it’s a case of:
What are you going to get for just Nash- If Nash is done in a year or two, would you rather rebuild around Gortat or Rondo?
Niether
and I believe we should stop building around PG’s as it’s really hard to build a championship team around them. Keep Gortat, sign DJ Augustin, Batum and maybe another role player and then go with that team until an opportunity to get a franchise player comes.
Don't trade Dudley!
Don't want to lose Nash AND Gortat
And only have a late first and Rondo to show for it. We haven’t had a good center here basically ever. I know we won’t get much for Nash (the most valuable aspect is the fact we will suck and get a high pick) but I don’t want to swap Gortat for Rondo essentially. I would rather keep the hard worker who has few miles on his legs (in terms of NBA years) than a guy who can be a problem in the locker room and isn’t an upgrade talent-wise to Gortat (at least IMO).
"If Gortat pulls off a real Dream Shake in-game this year I will shave my head.
Mark my words." Piotr Szczesniak 12/12/11 2:12 PM
Cardinals, Suns, D-backs for life!
Another perspective
From another (biased) Celtics fan. The Suns are not going to make the playoffs this season, Nash is probably in his last season because no 39 year old wants to keep playing on a rebuilding team (Nash might be an exception but it doesn’t place you any closer to contending next season). What I’m saying is this is effectively a Gortat for Rondo + a late 1st round pick. Also getting rid of Nash and Gortat and replacing him with Rondo will make your team worse this season but that’ll mean you will have a good chance at a higher pick come draft time. Yes Nash is better than Rondo now but in 1 or 2 years Nash won’t be playing at all. And yes Gortat craps all over O’Neal but the 1st round pick makes the crap smaller. Also it gets you rebuilding a season sooner by getting you a good pick in a deep draft. The only reason some (I think we’re a minority at Celticsblog) Celtics fans want to do this is because it gives us a chance to win now but next season, like the Suns we’ll be rebuilding.
I truly think this is a good trade for both teams. Then again Nash is the Suns and has been for a decade. It’s kind of like asking Celtics fans about a trade that involves Pierce.
this seems like a very fair assessment
I would pull the trigger on this as a suns fan since the trade essentially gives us a top 5 draft pick this year (given how bad we’ll be for the remainder of the season), another first round pick, more cap space with Jermaine’s expiring contract and a young talented player in Rondo. Many fans have already considered the idea of “tanking” the season with hopes of getting the next superstar through the draft. Others have argued that the draft is not the only way to get a star. This trade will open up all these ways to get one: through trade (Rondo), through the draft (the high 1st round pick we’ll get from sucking the rest of this season), and through FA (expiring contract of O’neal will open up even more).
by steve13nash on Feb 13, 2012 11:12 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, the consensus is that you can't build around Gortat, but you can build around Rondo and a top 10 pick+ more first round picks...
It’s like the Cavs giving up Verajao for picks- they go from ok/bad to REALLY bad with just Irving, and get another top 5 pick this year.
They then get Andre Drummond to pair with Iriving and one year later they are forming a contender, not swimming in mediocrity for 3-4 season because of Verajao’s high level of play helping them win games that don’t help them in the long run- in this case, keeping Gortat helps the suns in the long run, but losing him and Nash crushes you guys and puts you at the bottom with a shot at some real studs.
The question is, as a suns fan: could you get more than Rondo+mid/late pick PLUS the lottery pick from sucking for the rest of the season?
Nash and rolo
Rolo is par with oneal but has a career ahead of him with his age
Gortat is to good for a late first especially with the c’s upgraded through this trade
Top 5 pg &top 10 center for
Top 10 pg & bottom 10 center and bad pick
But this is all talk for im a keep nash person anyway.
Hell why mot just trade us that pick top 20 protected and take rolo from us?
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 14, 2012 10:31 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
This is the best trade the Suns can make
The lack of appreciation for Rondo is staggering.
He’s the best defensive PG in the L. He is a pass-first guard, who rebounds incredibly well for his size. He’s basically a poor man’s J-Kidd (and I’m not sure he’s even that much “poorer”.
So he needs to improve on shooting. Thats the one thing that tends to get better with age.
He is the best player the Suns could get in any trade, period. Plus, there is the bonus of getting Nash a possible ring (a collateral benefit).
Lastly, he’s an actual selling point for FAs. Without Rondo, its "hey, we have a 39 yo. Nash and an above average, 29 yo center. Hurrah!)
With Rondo: “We have one of the best PGs in the league, who is young and will play to get you the ball”. With Rondo the Sky’s the limit. If he is coming into Rondo-Dudley-top ten draft pick territory, whose to say D12 wouldnt come here?
by UASun on Feb 15, 2012 12:24 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
You think if we made this trade
Would Rondo, Dudley, Frye, Morris and 2 1st round picks be enough to recruit Dwight Howard?
Don't trade Dudley!
If we made this trade
We might as well try to trade veryone not named rondo morris and get another solid guy like pj mayo from memphis. Then get brooks back
Rondo brooks
Mayo Redd
Chilly or dudz
Morris hak
rolo
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 16, 2012 3:30 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Same idea, but the Lakers would probably be perfectly willing to give up Bynum for Nash/Gortat.
And you can have your pick of first rounders (the Lakers’ and Dallas’ 2012 picks), Devin Ebanks, Darius Morris, Andrew Goudelock, and so forth. The Lakers can also take Childress with the Odom TPE to offer more salary relief.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Id do this trade in a heartbeat
Although I’d try my hardest to steal your guys 2nd rd pick as well.
Rondo is a very good pg. He’s young, athletic, pass first, plays awesome defense, strong, good rebounder… If he could shoot (which he is actually improving on) he would be insanely good. Like cp3, DWill, Nash caliber.
Nash is more valuable to us then anybody else because he’s 38. Sure he’s playing better then he was at 28 and as good as he ever has. But in 3 years he’s done, which kills his trade value.
I sure would miss Gortat tho. The only real big man the Suns have had (besides shaq) since I was born.
And seeing Nash play for a team I hate would hurt too….. But this gives us a great foundation to rebuild upon.
by SmokinKieff on Feb 17, 2012 8:24 AM MST via mobile reply actions
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