Suns Front Office Has No Plans To 'Blow It Up', Claims 8 to 10 Year Process Too Long

Hey man, only 1 team can win a championship every year. It is not an easy thing to do.

I think the “blowing it up” line is winning less than 30 games for at least two seasons and getting at least two, top 5 draft picks

What means “one great draft pick” exactly?

its not “blowing it up” when you keep Nash and Hill and middling contracts. Its just purgatory.

That counts as not blowing it up, IMO.

I get your point but lets not go overboard with JC…he didn’t win any rings here either and only got one for the Dbacks by spending a TON in a sport with no salary caps with a lot of that money deferred for years to come and then sold before having to pay the price.

I don’t think that ever even happened!

KJ and Chapman retired after the 99-2000 seasons as Suns, due to oldness and/or injury

Kid was traded in I think 2001, after a wife-beating scandal.

McDyess’ contract expired and he left , even though everybody was begging him to stay.

and I think this question is a good example of why it’s time to step back and do the leg work starting with every NBA champ, finalist and conference finalist for the last 10 years and look at how they built their teams

There’s anecdotes for anything…including your scenario (Miami Heat).

The Suns situation (like every situation) is unique in that Nash is a special case and the roster moves Sarver made in 2010 set the entire thing back at least two years…maybe more…so Phx is starting from a different point.

nash cant do this forever. hes a wonder that he hasnt dropped up at all yet, but u gotta think next year or the year after u will see some rust. we cant rebuild with nash because we dont have enoguh time

Talk about repetitive haha

Just kidding haha

1. Draft a SG this year.
2. Resign Brooks. He’s going to be at his lowest value of his career.
3. Keep Gortat and Morris
4. Trade Frye/Hak. It might seem impossible, but I’ve seen MUCH worse overpaid players dumped before.
5. Stuck with Chilly, but consider amnesty if they can sign an all-star caliber player at any position
6. Resign Nash, but reduce his minutes like Stockton because they will have a competent backup in Brooks.
7. Brown, Seabass, Price, RoLo – Start a fight and get suspended, preferably with the Lakers this week. Let’s do this “World Peace.” You talk a lot NY smack, but really you didn’t do jack shit in the Malice at the Palace except go after the wrong guy and get punked by Ben Wallace.

It just wouldn’t work PR wise. Same goes for Beasley.

I will root against him 100% if he joins our team.

I would say that Dallas did more through trades and free agency than the draft strategy but of course, either approach needs a bit of both to work.

Dallas Mavericks (2011 Champ, 2006 Finalist, 2003 WC Finalist)

The Mavericks have been on a long run of success that started in 2001 with a trip to the conference semifinals and culminating in 2011 with a championship. They made the playoffs 11-straight time (and counting) with one ring, one loss in the Finals and one loss in the Conference Finals.

Before their run of success, the Mavericks went 10 full years without making it to the playoffs. Their fortunes changed in1998 when they traded the 6th pick (Robert Traylor) for the 9th pick (Dirk Nowitzki) and the 19th pick (Pat Garrity). They then flipped Garrity and their 1999 1st round pick and some spare parts for Steve Nash. That pick turned into Shawn Marion for the Suns in 1999.

Making the connections between the Suns and Mavs even deeper, Michael Finley, the third part of the Mavs core for the early 2000’s, was drafted by the Suns in 1995 with the 21st pick. He was traded to the Mavs in 2006 for Jason Kidd.

In 1999 the new Mavs won 19 games, in 2000 they won 40, in 2001 with three years together the Dirk, Finley and Nash trio won 52 games and the dynasty was off. Marc Cuban, took over in 2000. As we know, all through the 2000’s the Mavs under Cuban spent heavily and moved a lot of pieces in an out around Dirk but at no point did they miss the playoffs.

The Mavs worst years in the 90’s were 11 wins in 92-93 and 13 wins in 93-94.

The Mavs highest picks in the 90’s were Jason Kidd (#2) in 1994 that they flipped for Finley. That 6th pick they turned into Dirk and Nash (wow) and the 4th pick in 1992, Jim Jackson.

Out of all these Final 4 finishers I decided to go look at how many of them achieved their finish with a Top 3 player of theirs (i.e. how Nash/Stoudemire/Marion were the Suns top 3) whom they themselves drafted with a Top 5 pick (which is what we can go ahead and call “bottoming out”). You can debate bottoming out / who a team’s top 3 is but I figured this would be interesting:

Dallas – None
Miami – Wade (#5 pick 2003) : 2011, 2006, 2005
Chicago – Rose (#1 pick 2008): 2011, Jordan (#3 pick 1984): 1998, 1997, 1996
Oklahoma CIty/Seattle: Durant (#2 pick 2007), Westbrook (#4 pick 2008), Harden (#3 pick 2009): 2011 , Payton (#2 pick, 1989) : 1996
Lakers – None.
Celtics – None (Antonie Walker was the 6th pick)
Magic – Howard (#1 pick 2004): 2010, 2009. Shaq (#1 pick 1992), Hardaway (#3 pick 1993): 1996
Suns – None.
Cavaliers – James (#1 pick 2003): 2009, 2007
Nuggets – Anthony (#3 pick 2003): 2009
Pistons – None
Spurs – Duncan (#1 pick 1998): 2008, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2001, 1999, Robinson (#1 pick 1987): 2003, 2001, 1999
Jazz – Deron Williams (#3 pick 2005): 2007
Pacers – None.
Timberwolves – Garnett (#5 pick 1995): 2004
Nets – Martin (#1 pick 2001) 2002 and 2003 – K-Mart definitely wasn’t their top player though.
Kings – None
76ers – Iverson (#1 pick 1996) – 2001
Bucks – Glenn Robinson (#1 pick 1994) – 2001 (Ray Allen and he were probably 1 and 1a)
Knicks – Ewing (#1 pick 1985) – 1999, 2000 (hard to say old man Ewing was still their best guy. Missed those 1999 Finals).
Blazers – None.
Rockets – Olajuwon (#1 pick 1984) – 1997

So unless I missed something (entirely possible) the only teams that had more than 1 of their Top 3 players come from the Top 5 of the draft was OKC last year and they had a fun little grace period called “we’re moving to the midwest so it’s OK that we suck” and then the Shaq/Penny team that I believe they changed the lottery rules because of.

If my quick math is right then 34 of the 60 “Final 4” appearances happened by teams that didn’t feature a Top 5 pick of their own amongst their Top 3 players. Obviously that’s heavily weighted with Detroit, the Lakers, Boston, and the Suns (20 of the 34) but interesting nonetheless.

…another team that didn’t tank and rebuild through the draft:

Miami Heat (2011 Finalist, 2006 Champ, 2005 EC Finalist, 1997 EC Finalist)

The Heat have been an extremely successful franchise going back over the last 16 years since Pat Riley joined the team. They’ve only missed the playoffs three times in that span. Twice Riley led the Heat through rapid rebuilds.

The first came after the mid-to-late 90’s Heat led by Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning. When that window closed, the Heat won 36 and 25 games respectively in 2002 and 2003 and drafted Caron Butler with the 10th pick in 2002 and Dwyane Wade with the 5th pick in 2003. Riley also signed RFA Lamar Odom from the Clippers in 2003.

In 2004, the Heat flipped Butler and Odom for Shaq and they made the Eastern Conference Finals that season and won a ring the next year in 2006. The following season Shaq was injured and Wade missed 31 games. The Heat won just 15 games and traded away Shaq’s big contract.

They got the second overall pick in 2008 and took Michael Beasley (instead of Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Eric Gordon or Danilo Gallinari). But the plan was to clear cap space for the Summer of LeBron and we know all know how that turned out in 2010.

At no point during Riley’s 16 year run did he trade away core players or “tank” to get picks. The one time they ended up with a top pick due to Wade’s injuries and the Shaq trade, they whiffed and ended up passing on much better players.

Chicago Bulls (2011 EC Finalist, 1998 Champ, 1997 Champ, 1996 Champ)

With the Bulls there’s life before Michael Jordan and life after Michael Jordan. No single man changed a franchise’s fortunes more than M.J.

Jordan was famously picked third overall in the 1984 NBA Draft. The Bulls won 27 games that season to get him and had won just 28 games the year prior. From Jordan’s first year in the league in (he averaged 28 points per game as a rookie) until he finally left the building in 1998, the Bulls never missed the playoffs and they won six rings. Jordan. Yup.

Then the rebuilding started and for the next six years the Bulls didn’t win more than 30 games in a single season. They were really bad and during that time had the first overall pick once (Elton Brand, 1999) and seven total lottery picks that included Brand, Chris Mihm (7th, 2000), Marcus Fizer (4th, 2000), Eddy Curry (4th, 2001), Jay Williams (2nd, 2002), Kirk Hinrich (7th, 2003) and Ben Gordon (3rd, 2004).

That group was good enough to get Chicago back in the playoffs in 2005, 06, and 07 but they didn’t get past the second round. In 2006 they traded Curry and some other stuff to the Knicks for the 2nd overall pick and some other stuff. They used the 2006 2nd pick on LaMarcus Aldridge and shipped him to Portland for the 4th pick, Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khryapa (remember him?).

That didn’t work out so well and the Bulls only won 33 games in 2007-08 but they struck it rich in the lottery. They jumped over eight other teams and with just 17 lottery balls managed to win Derrick Rose. The Heat, by the way, had 250 lottery balls and ended up with Michael Beasley. Could you imagine a Rose, Wade backcourt in Miami? Fate.

Rose has obviously changed the Bulls fortunes just like Jordan did although we’ll have to wait and see if Derrick will win six rings like M.J. did (doubt it).

From the time the Bulls started to rebuild through the draft in 1998, it took six years to get back to the playoffs and 12 years to be a contender again. Of course, they also made numerous really bad decisions during that time and suffered the misfortune of Jay Williams motorcycle accident after his rookie season.

OKC Thunder (2011 WC Finalist, 1996 Finalist )

The Sonics/Thunder are the poster child team for those who advocate rebuilding through the draft.

The Sonics got to the NBA Finals in 1996 (and lost to Jordan). That team was led by Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp in their prime and had some great role players around them. Kemp famously ate his way through the NBA lockout of 1999 and was never the same again although the Sonic did make the playoffs four of the next six years but weren’t a real contender.

In 2003, Seattle traded Payton and parts to the Bucks for Ray Allen. Allen joined Rashard Lewis who was drafted in the 2nd round of the 1998 Draft. Those two managed 52 wins in 2004-05 but didn’t get past the second round. The same core only managed 35 and 31 wins the next two years.

Then, just like the Bulls with Derrick Rose, the 31-win Sonics got lucky in the 2007 lottery and jumped from the 5th pick to the 2nd pick and watched the Trail Blazers take Greg Oden which left Kevin Durant on the board.

At this point with Durant already picked, the Sonics dumped Ray Allen and got the Celtics 5th pick, Jeff Green. They also smartly choose not to overpay for Rashard Lewis who they shipped to the Magic for a $9m trade exception.

It’s worth noting here that the Sonics struck out in the 2006 draft with Mouhamed Sene (10th pick) and in the 2004 draft with Robert Swift (12th pick) but they did get Nick Collison in 2003 with a 12th pick.

In his rookie season, Durant’s team won 20 games which was good enough to earn the 4th pick in 2008 (Russell Westbrook) and they used the Suns 24th overall pick acquired in the Kurt Thomas salary dump to draft Serge Ibaka.

In their first year together, Durant and Westbrook won just 23 games, good enough to land the 3rd pick which they used on James Harden in 2009. That year the team won 50 games and then last year the Thunder were in the Western Conference Finals. And now….

No team pulled off a better, faster rebuild than the Sonics/Thunder. From the point they dumped Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, it took just two years of a combined 43 wins to get back into the playoffs and be set for a long time although they did go 15 years between contending in 1996 and 2011.

It’s no wonder the Thunder are the best example of rebuilding through the draft. They got top value for Ray Allen, they made brilliant use of their salary cap to get extra picks from the Suns, they made perfect draft picks with Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, and they got super lucky in 2007 to jump three spots and get Durant.

The Thunder’s rebuilding was a rare combination of skill and luck that’s hard to replicate. If everything goes right, this is what you get.

To ignore this post, lest it an entire city to the drink

That’s not gonna happen.

worst basketball executive ever. Makes Isiah’s run with the Knicks look pretty by comparison.

see, here’s the thing….we just don’t know. Did ANYONE predict they’d be able to trade Hedo and JRich and EC55 for Gortat?

You just don’t know what’s out there and as crappy as the moves have been under Sarver, the Babby / Blanks regime has basically done three things: The Gortat trade (long term win), the Dragic/Brooks trade (fail but not super major bad), the Morris draft pick (so far so good).

But yeah, this summer will be big although I suspect it will take more than one summer to unscrew the mess Sarver made in 2010. The big test is not to screw up more. Patience.

It’s just that it won’t happen. Nash won’t ask for a trade and Sarver needs Nash to sell tickets. What will likely happen is that they re-sign Nash this summer and hopefully sign and draft a couple studs.

for Nash, 38 years old and making10.3 mil, when they already have Tony Parker.

Just as with Amare (and Chris Paul, Melo, Dwight, etc.) he was being asked to sign an extension as part of the deal and he didn’t want to sign to stay in Boston. It was a three-way deal that would have sent KG from Minnie to here w/ Shawn going to the Celtics.

Just imagine…

We’re just ridiculously mediocre. I’d like to think there’s a difference :3

Just like Peyton Manning is the Indianapolis Colts, getting rid of him would basically be the equivalent of blowing up the team.

Thatd suck balls. But the nba wouldnt allow it. Phoenix is a proud organization and this city is a huge money maker in terms of ticket sales,jersay sales veiwing games etc. sac-town cant do any of that and they dont even have their arena stuff in check.
NOLA or Sactown or even washington will go before us

The idea of Sarver moving the franchise to Seattle, (and them becoming the Sonics again), then Stern would turn around and give us another franchise pronto (we’re a better market than charlotte and it took them only a few years) means we would have a Suns team not owned by Sarver . . . . I’m not saying I’m on board. I’m just depressed enough that I saw the positives, which is pretty bad

I’m not that old so can someone tell me if this franchise has actually played well defensively in the past?

Yes, in fact there was a year where we were #1 in the league, but I don’t think we made the playoffs because our offense sucked.

The 1992-93 Suns are the best example. They ranked 9th in defense and 1st in offense. More than one player would have to play defense in order for that to happen. Also, Charles Barkley wasn’t a good defender and admitted it a year ago. I don’t know what he’s talking about and sometimes he doesn’t either. He’s what in his late 40’s? People start forgetting things around that age.

Also, the Suns only got lucky making the WCF’s once with Nash and that was 06. In 05, they were just that good. They swept the Grizzlies and beat the 58-24 Mavs in 6 games without Joe Johnson. Steven Hunter was our 6th man for that series, STEVEN HUNTER. If anything they got unlucky. In 2010, they were as good as they got. They were the 2nd best team in the WCF’s and that’s how far they got. Really, the Lakers were the only NBA team I didn’t think the Suns could beat. The SSOL Suns did play defense, they were average. It just wasn’t their focus.

I like Barkley, but sometimes he can be an idiot.

I do think this franchise needs a change though. Perhaps we should stop building around PG’s?