Phoenix Suns' Markieff Morris Likes a Bench Role. Should We Be Worried?
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 2, 2012 4:08 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintIn an interview with Arizona Sports, Suns rookie power forward Markieff Morris admitted he asked Alvin Gentry if he could come off the bench:
"When I was starting I was taking a backseat...For me I was kind of deferring to Gortat and Steve and Grant. I felt like I was just out on the court. I felt like I wasn't doing anything."
Um, so why weren't you doing anything? You don't need the ball to do things when you are on the court. Hm.
You can't blame Morris for wanting to go back to a more productive role coming off the bench, where he averages 8 and 5, as opposed to his mostly awful numbers as a starter. However, I am not so sure what kind of message that sends to Alvin Gentry and the general public. On one hand you have a Josh Childress dying for minutes yet continuing his mantra of team first. I'm ready, I'll do whatever coach wants, when he wants it. I'm ready to go. Morris however sees himself as a bench guy:
"I just told Alvin I think it would be better if I come off the bench and bring that spark off the bench."
There's nothing wrong with providing a spark off the bench, but if the rookie really means what he says, you don't have to read too much into his words to believe that he wants to establish his own role, and what the coach my think or say doesn't much matter.
"I know my role...I have to be aggressive because I'm one of the go-to guys off the bench."
Yes Markieff, but your team is lacking go-to guys in the starting lineup, too. And you were placed in the starting lineup due in part to your success coming off the bench. I suppose he hasn't realized that or has career aspirations of winning consecutive "6th Man of the Year."
I'm not going to lambaste the rookie over these comments. He is young. And youngsters often say things they do not mean. Heck, I say plenty of things I don't mean, and I'm old. But I would think a rookie who wants to play NBA ball for a long time would have a few tag lines in his repertoire ready at all times.
So, since I am mostly a nice guy, a fan of Markieff and the Suns, I would like to help the youngster. Call it taking him under my wing from afar. Here are a few simple quotes Markieff can use to stave off any doubts about what he is here to do:
1. "I'm just here to help my team win as many games possible. I'll come off the bench if coach wants or I'll be a starter. Whatever coach wants me to do."
2. "Playing with Steve Nash in the first unit is an honor and I'm very thankful to have the opportunity to play with a future hall of famer."
3. "Playing with Grant Hill in the first unit is an honor and I'm very thankful to have the opportunity to play with a man of such high character. I'm also learning a lot just watching him. He's the ultimate professional"
4. "I'm thankful that Channing Frye is sucking so bad because it gives me the chance to play starters minutes." (SARC)
5. "I didn't come into the NBA to sit on the bench. Coach thinks I'm a starter, and I'm going to play like a starter.
Hey, that was fun. Can you all think of some things
Markieff could say that would leave us no
doubt that he's here to be a beast?
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What?
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
I think he means like the Babby post
“Politics” in the sense of “not about play”.
Que?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Hey, it could've been worse
He could’ve said “I’m just here till the Spurs pick me up”.
Joe Saunders: "They Giants played a really good game, so hats off to us"
Serious?
Markieff likes the bench because he can actually get the ball in his hands and make some stuff happen. Of course he’s going to sounds a bit selfish here, its because he was a highly drafted rookie and in his rookie year. He wants to go out there and prove himself. He wants the ball, and he wants to make plays. This is typical for rookies. Proven players won’t act like this much because they have proven their worth.
Yes Markieff, but your team is lacking go-to guys in the starting lineup, too. And you were placed in the starting lineup due in part to your success coming off the bench
Lets not forget that while in the starting role, his production went to crap. Was it Markieff’s fault? He was getting the minutes and playing with Nash, but Gentry ran nothing to include him.
Markieff’s job while as a starter was to run out and set a few screens for the SG and SF. Nash ran the High pick with Gortat 90% of time. As a rookie he feels like he isn’t doing anything. Ya we needed scoring in first unit, but Markieff isn’t a player that is going to get points for the team while Nash is constantly playing high pick and roll with Gortat.
What Gentry failed to do while Markieff was in the starting lineup is utilize him. Markieff could be our best post up player we have on the team, and he is still in his rookie season. With no real PG in the second unit, he has more freedom to create.
I don’t blame Markieff for his drop off in production while in the starting unit, I blame Gentry for pounding his head into the wall with high pick and rolls even if the opposing team is clearly taking that away. I get that’s our bread and butter, but sometimes you can add some spices to the mix.
by Will Smith on Feb 2, 2012 5:09 PM MST reply actions 6 recs
recc’d.
excellent, valid points
you should stop by more often, Will.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
Most def
I appreciate the compliments, especially coming from another Will. I have been lurking for years, and always appreciate your posts.
Are you sure he's a Will? Or even a Wil? Hmm...
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
however
he would make it much easier for Gentry if he actually tried to post up more often and finish closer to the rim.
a good post up player is what we lack – not a mid-range and 3 pt shooter from the PF spot (we have that in Frye)
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Feb 3, 2012 6:02 AM MST up reply actions
Yep...excellent observations!
Blogging Suns basketball for Bright Side of the Sun from Gilbert, AZ.
Follow me on Twitter: @thereal7footer
by 7footer on Feb 2, 2012 7:58 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Wow. Good stuff, Will.
Say hi to Jada for me!
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
Haha
It’s funny cause I’m like the opposite of the actor even though we share the same name.
1. He’s rich, I’m not
2. He’s black, I’m white
3. He’s married, I’m single
4. He raps(or tries), I don’t like rap(metal is my fav)
I could go on lol
My friend's name is also Will Smith.
He’s white as well but has a fro…and a beard too.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
will
Loved you in fresh prince and independance day
skitsophrenics are never alone-Just ask scott howard
all good point's but,
there is an unpleasant undertone to his comments. I may be wrong (and hope I am) but reading between the lines I hear this.
‘I want to do well and be successful. Against opposing back ups I’m able to do that, I’m not up to the challenge of banging heads with quality starters’
your points are valid and I don’t completely disagree, but another part of why he was unsuccessful is because he (like Frye) got out played.
Hmm
you bring up a good interesting point. It’s very possible that could be running through his head.
I’m personally giving Keiff a big pass for the year. I con only imagine how tough it is to be a rookie and especially this year.
Shortened training camp, + to many games in a short time, + like no practices to learn and to get better. Has to be super tough, and I’m surprised he has looked as good as he has. When he was drafted I was cursing the pick, but we could have ourselves a real gem here (for once).
no doubt he is clearly a bright spot, and I like his game
He’s gifted and has a lot of tools to work with, unlike Dudley, but also unlike Dudley, I can’t imagine a scenario where Dudz makes the same request from a coach that’s asked him to step up and start.
that said… In his starts he’s had to go up against legends that would terrorize all but the greatest PF’s let alone a rookie. he defiantly gets a pass, but these comment don’t sit well with me.
Isn't it more a case of they didn't let him do anything?
Frye just hangs out near the three point line. That isn’t Kieff’s game, although he can do that.
We need to find a way to use Kieff’s skills – and see if he can be a dive man on the PnR, but that’lll never happen with the first unit.
Eh. Its not ideal, but not concerned. Nothing to see here.
"We never tried Amar'e, Nash, and a live Grizzly bear." -Scott Howard, January 18, 2010
"All they’re fighting for is to stay as obscenely rich as they are now, based on their ability to bounce a ball and throw it in a hole." East Bay Ray, October 10, 2011
"the players and owners are squabbling over how to divide the pie that WE BAKE FOR THEM." East Bay Ray, October 31, 2011
Yea because its totally awful that he wants to help us
Kets face it. Our offense sucks. High PnR with gortat nonstop. If morris was featured more with his nice post ability he might had been more productive. But now that were a run n gun team trying to be halfcourt we have no identity. I agree eith what he said. Why start when iys not helping the team as much. He still hustled be hes young. Hell get better
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose"
by phxpurple on Feb 2, 2012 8:21 PM MST via Android app reply actions
On your phone, I see.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
lol
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Feb 2, 2012 8:52 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
in the pre-draft workout
Morris said he hoped to develop into a starter and a Robert Horry-type role player on a good team. Work with what you have Kieff. No Dream, Shaq, Kobe or TImmy D around here. When you get the starter gig as a rookie, take advantage.
Now don’t ever speak of Robert Horry again.
That's like the Lakers wanting you and saying you're the Raja Bell type of player
Or with the Celtics saying you’re the Kobe type of player…although that can be a good thing.
Twitter: @FredLegittt
thinking more of when he was a Sun and threw a towel in coach's face
but yeah, so many reasons to dislike Bob as a Suns fan
by ninecharacters on Feb 3, 2012 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
I wonder if Keef and Marcin could get a high-low post game going
Both can stretch the floor, we have the shooters and both can play back to basket post up. If Marcin was low and Keef was high, would he be able to faceup and have vision in the high post at all? Does anybody know much about his post game?
Carter having a glazed-eyes contest with Boris Diaw. Carter's winning, but Diaw might respond by eating his eyes.
I have seen
A couple possessions in mind with Keiff standing between 3 point line and Ft. line and has found teammates cutting to the basket. On a number of occasions. Reminded me of what Tim Duncan does.
Keef os an excellent passing big man.
I like seeing some high-low with him around the FT line.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Low Post Game
Marcin doesn’t really have that low post game. He scores 5 times as much on pick and roll plays as any other center in the NBA and posts up only a third of the time compared to other starting centers.
Markieff doesn’t really have much back to the basket game either.
I don’t see what the problem is with Markieffs comments unless you had false expectations for him to develop into an allstar. Markieff was always projected to develop into someone like Udonis Haslem or Kurt Thomas.
Comparisons to Rasheed Wallace are just wrong. Wallace was more skillful, way bigger and way more athletic.
Way LONGER
Not way bigger (sheed was 230 tops).
please..
Sheed was 6’11 with very long arms.
And Sheed was one of the strongest post defenders, he would never be accused of being thin, wiry, soft or weak. He always had defined muscular body, look at some pictures now way he was weighing less than Markieff.
Markieff is between 6’9 – 6’10 with short arms and limited athleticism. Comparisons to Rasheed Wallace are simply unfair and totally off the mark.
I don't think you understand me
Apologies for that.
In common basketball parlance, Longer and Bigger are defined as:
Longer means “higher standing reach / taller / longer wingspan”.
Bigger means “Weighs more / has a wider ‘base’ / bulkier”.
Lets use http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/ as the arbiter rather than guessing yeh?
Raheed Walalce – 6’ 9.75" without shoes, 230 (probably guesses but still…)
Kieff: 6’ 7.75" W/O Shoes, 6’ 9.25" WITH shoes, 241, 6’ 10.75" Wingspan, 8’ 10.5" Standing reach.
So Kieff == bigger (heavier/bulkier), Sheed = longer (taller / longer wingspan / better standing reach). That;s the full context :)
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/ is lots of fun to play with, for such gems as
Marcin Gortat: 6’ 11", 7’ 0", 225, 7’ 3.5" Wingspan (!!!!) 9’ 2" Reach vs Joakim Noah 6’ 10.5", 7’ 0", 223, 7’ 1.25" span, 8’ 10.5" reach. Who knew Gortat was longer than Noah? Not I, but that may be just reverse racism.
Just because it's listed doesn't mean
it carries unquestionable probity.
Perusing that site for a minute, I found that it lists Gortat’s vertical as better than Amare’s (2002 Amare) or Blake Griffin’s. Not sure what test they used to measure that, but it doesn’t pass the eyeball test.
Even if all the numbers are correct representatives of actual values (which I don’t believe), some of the players on there were measured before they were 20. It is possible they grew. All of the players thickened up too.
Gortat looks a little on the thinner side for NBA centers (to me).
Everybody can keep pointing out the obtuse and obdurate nature of my stance, but I remain steadfast in my assertion that Gortat is on the small side for a starting center. I would say he has average to above average athletecism.
Gortat excels because of his fundamentals, not because of freakish size or athletecism.
Wallace was strong like Rodman. He could bang with guys that outweighed him. I would qualify the bigger statement by adding that Wallace was stronger, because Morris (right now) is nowhere near as strong as Wallace became (of course Morris still has years to grow into his body and develop that strength).
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Feb 3, 2012 7:50 AM MST up reply actions
agreed
Wallace looks much beefier than Markieff.
230lbs is probably what Wallace measured our of college. Pretty sure that is it because it is listed on DX and NBA.com usually never updates them later on either.
http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/070209_rasheed_kg.jpg
no way Rasheed being 2-3 inches taller than Markieff was weighting 10 lbs less.
So we have evidence Kieff is bigger
And an agreement that Sheed is longer, but still disagreement?
Here is Wallace at NC full body, and he has TINY legs and is super thin. especially in less baggy clothes. Here is Rasheed Wallace for the pistons – same skinny legs, same baggy clothes, although his arms look bigger. Sheed also has a “Swimmers body”, the classic V shape where the hips are skinnier than the shoulders.
Kieff, OTOH, has an arse and hips the same width as his shoulders – I mena his his arse is massive and has bigger arms and shoulders than any picture of Sheed I’ve seen.
Bigger in basketball is about bulk, and I say Kieff is bigger. YMMV but I think I’ve justified my position pretty, pretty, pretty well.
Actually
Wallace was more skillful, way bigger and way more athletic.
I was really curious, so I checked the awesome stats at Synergy – http://mysynergysports.com/ – and fun fact – Kieff is 13th in the NBA in points per play on postup plays – I know, it shocked me as well!
Gortat is 59th, but only 9 places short of Al Jeffersen, a noted post player. Of course, Gortat is 6th as th PnR dive man.
I know that small sample sizes will make the best of us into liars, so I’m not even going to begin to claim that this is a long term sustainable fact, but it looks really promising for Kieff, it really does, and we should be working out if this is a statistical anomaly, or if Kieff can sustain this. I mean, it isn’t like our second unit is lead by Harden or Ginobli after all.
mm?
Points per post up is kind of a flawed statistic on its own.
I mean you look at the numbers you posted Gortat only had 64 post up plays all year compared to almost 200 for Al Jefferson.
At the same time Gortat 107 times was the man rolling to the basket and scored 65% of the time there easy points off of Nash. Al Jefferson ran 27 pnr all year.
Markieffs numbers look better but really small sampe size and most of it against bench players.
Flawed statistic?
Sigh.
I think you misunderstand the point. Maybe I am really bad at communicating, because this seems to be happening a LOT.
If we are looking for a player and situation that has promise, something we can explore further, a player that might have something extra we haven’t tapped, a player we can “develop” if you will, we are looking for something with a small sample size that looks promising.
Of COURSE the sample size is small, that is the whole concept behind trying to find a player to develop – someone who doesn’t need more reps to see what they can do doesn’t need developing.
Everyone agrees Jefferson is good as a postup guy. We don’t know if Gortat or Kieff can be with consistent touches, but what we hope to see from their stats is promise. Jeffersen as a comparison point is useful, and it shows Gortat looking slightly less promising than Kieff, but who knows with greater touches what either is capable of?
In a season in which the Suns have very few players with long term upside, finding out Kieff has been productive in the post,in limited touches and Gortat isn’t far behind Jeffersen, is something I’m pretty happy about, and interested to see unfold.
by MMotherwell on Feb 3, 2012 5:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure how we can hold these stats against Gortat
He plays the most effective way considering what Nash can do on the PnR.
I am not so sure that other centers with much more limited mobility (Bynum, Gasol, Bogut) would be able to compliment Nash so well.
Well, until Nash is traded we will never know…
Also (I know, small sample size) Gortat showed some sick post moves this season (games against Boston and Lakers for example – I especially loved him freezing Gasol with a double head fake for a right handed hook).
It seems that he improved his post game considerable but it’s just a better play in terms of percentages to let run PnR’s with Nashty.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Feb 3, 2012 6:57 AM MST up reply actions
I think Gortat needs more post minutes
He looks good – really good. Kieff and Gortat in the post should be the second unit’s go to play.
"Show me what you do, and I'll tell YOU what you believe."
Keiff plays hard. He may not have the “Bull Durham” talking points down, but it reminds me of someone who said all the right things – Earl Clark. We should be more concerned about what goes on in the game, and less about the interviews. If he thinks he’ll develop faster on the second team, that’s great. Now, let’s see it.
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
"In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip."
if only we could’ve mind ,melded Dudz brain into Earl Clark’s body
by 2NASHTY on Feb 3, 2012 8:57 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
when he was drafted, kieff presented himself as a tough-as-nails, philly-bred badass.
i’m still kinda waiting for that guy to show up.
Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
~Jack Burton, "Big Trouble in Little China"
I didn't know Morris had the athleticism to pull off such a sick 180.
OMT: “Do you feel any pressure to perform or impress anyone this season in order to earn minutes?”
MM: “I don’t have to prove anything to nobody you know.”
WC: “Do you have the mentality that you’re competing for a starting spot?”
MM: “Of course, I’m not coming to take a back seat, I’m coming in to start.”
WC: “How have some of the battles in practice gone?”
MM: “It’s cool man, it’s not as hard as college so it’s easy to get into it…”
Seems like someone’s singing a different tune from when he was quoted in Wil’s excellent media day story.
A little more measured, perhaps? Lacking the bluster and bravado.
If I was Morris, I would be salivating at the prospect of wrestling away the starting position from an underperforming starter who is averaging 7.2 points and 5.6 rebounds per game on less than 36% shooting. I would want to take that job and never look back. It’s difficult to become a star if a player can’t first take the leap to starter. Fyre has provided the perfect springboard.
Do I condemn Morris for his inconsistent approach? No. Do I think this has minatory implications for his future? No.
Do I think he needs to learn to interview better? Yes. (maybe he could get some tips from Babby, I think he knows everything)
It was only called the mildly irritated house on McDowell until I showed up.
by Jim Coughenour on Feb 3, 2012 8:15 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
I'm not worried.
He’ll come around and want that job next year if not sooner.
Grant Hill for prez.
by sun-arc on Feb 3, 2012 8:44 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Aw, give the kid a break...
My teenage son says something stupid virtually everytime he opens his mouth…Hopefully, by the time he’s Markieff’s age, it’s down to 25-30% of the time…
Fact remains, he is productive in some role. We have quite a few players we really can’t say the same about….
Let's do this...!
I can sympathize with your son
Your comment easily could have been,
Beavis says something stupid virtually everytime he opens his mouth…Hopefully, by the time he’s Markieff’s age, it’s down to 25-30% of the time…
Fact remains, he is productive in some role. We have quite a few bloggers we really can’t say the same about….
I am productive in some role, not sure what that role is though:)
Don't trade Dudley!
You help pad our stats.
Our comment count wouldn’t be nearly as impressive if not for you constantly replying to yourself :)
Just because Steve Nash has that "dirty hipster" look doesn't mean he's in need of a shower. Steve Nash bathes in the tears of his victims on a nightly basis.
Mark of a Beast, baby. Mark of a Beast.
by NashMV3 on Feb 3, 2012 5:33 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
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