Banks vs. Bell

by JSun on Jan 8, 2008 9:45 AM MST

Over the last few games, Banks has been doing the Raja Bell thing better than Raja Bell.

He's knocking down open threes and pestering offensive players. Sound familiar? Before he got in the game, AI had 17; AI ended up with 32.

Bell is one of my favorite players to ever wear the purple-and-orange, but he's slipping. I don't know if it's the injuries or what, but he does not currently merit 30+ minutes per game. I'm not even so sure he should be starting any more. He was brought here to guard Manu the Machine. Perhaps he should sit on the bench until Manu comes in, and then follow Manu to the bench when Manu takes a break.

Banks cannot create his own shot off the dribble (he always misses those shots) but can drive. His assist numbers are not stellar and those may never go up as I'm not convinced he's the sharpest tool in the shed. However, it does seem that he can give a good energy-packed 10 minutes per game.

Reducing Boris' minutes and Bell's minutes allows Coach D to go 9 deep. It seems that Skinner and Banks should be getting some of those minutes, right?

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Banks v. Bell & Suns reserves

I'm starting to think there is something strange about Suns reserves. It seems like many of them have issue's coming off the bench, either in the playoffs or regular season. Maybe it's the pressure of Nash's open looks (or the lack thereof when he leaves the game) and the expectations of a championship team. However, once those players move on to other teams, they turn into really good players. James Jones is one example, who is shredding it up on defense and three's for Portland at a much more efficient clip than in Phoenix. Eddie House is playing well too, but that occured during the regular season in his Suns year, so maybe that will dissapear in the playoffs. And Banks was averaging 15 points for Minnesota. The point is, the Suns system puts tons of pressure on the reserves, and that should be taken into consideration when evaluating any player.

by SilverSprings on Jan 8, 2008 9:59 AM MST reply actions

James Jones

Is not by any means setting the world on fire. He's getting more minutes with Portland but he's still only getting about 6 shots a game. The biggest difference is that so far this year he's knocking down his shots. His recent performance may very well be a fluke since his career FG% is 40.6% and 3PT% is 39.9%. He's somehow shooting 51.6% and 53.5% this year.

Banks was averaging 12, not 15, in Minny (at least in 05/06) and that was because he played over 30 minutes per game on a crappy team with few options outside of Garnett.

Anyway, I don't think the Suns bench is auto-poison to a player's game.

by AZSEAfan @ Bright Side Of The Sun on Jan 8, 2008 4:22 PM MST up reply actions

Totally agree

I was thinking the same thing this morning but I would say it depends on the match ups. Against small speedy PGs like Ellis, AI, Parker and Paul then Banks is a great option to be on the floor w/ Nash. Against a team like the Lakers w/ Kobe then Bell is a better option.

And let's not forget that Bell was Carmelo a lot last night and he was a non-factor in the game. Bell is a still valuable and I think his shot will return.

But in general, I think and have said that Banks should get more minutes if for no other reason then to increase his trade value for another big like a Klaiza or Petro.

by Seth Pollack on Jan 8, 2008 10:04 AM MST reply actions

Banks' value

I was thinking about Banks' great game, and it ocurred to me that two things helped him:

Iverson is a opportunity for Marcus to shine on defense
Denver has historically had troubles filling the 2 guard slot, so Nash can be hidden on the 2 guard

So Banks on Parker may not work, since Steve cannot guard Ginobli. Bur Marcus is an obvious choice to guard Chris Paul, since the Hornets don't have a dominant shooting guard. (I would also like to see Marcus on Devin Harris)

Can you think of other teams who fit the pattern? He may not work on Baron Davis, since Monta Ellis would tear Steve apart.

This is why I am so intrigued by DJ's potential. He can guard both the 1 and the 2.

'06-'07 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Jan 9, 2008 5:15 AM MST up reply actions

Great point

Certainly you can't have Steve and Marcus in the game at the same time as Parker and Manu or Baron and Ellis but there would be points in those games where one is resting that it might work or even cases where Banks and Bell are in if Steve is resting.

Clearly, it depends on the match-ups, rotations, game flow, etc. It just gives us another option that I would like to see used when appropriate. Just like Skinner will get more minutes against certain teams that are bigger and Diaw more against smaller teams. It just depends on the match-ups.

But this is an area where Coach D likes to impose his will on the offensive end and make teams match up with us so who knows. I tend to believe Coro when he says that Banks won't get much time either b/c of Coach D's stubborn-ness or b/c of something about Banks behind the scenes that we don't know about.

What is very interesting is to see much more talk about Banks in a trade in the various NBA blogs since he is getting productive minutes. His value goes up when he plays and that's important too if we are going to move his contract and in the best case get an expiring deal and/or a decent back up center.

As for DJ, I think his potential beyond this year is what makes Banks expendable but for now as long as Banks is here he has earned the playing time and while DJ is good there's so much more a rookie has to learn by watching and practice regarding team D, rotations, other players tendancies, refs, etc. that I am fine with them sitting on the bench this year.

by Seth Pollack on Jan 9, 2008 8:08 AM MST up reply actions

Match-Ups

There are match-ups for every team. When Parker is out there with Finley, for example.

The best thing that happens is that Banks' trade value rises and the Suns get someone that Coach D WILL ACTUALLY PLAY.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 9, 2008 9:36 AM MST up reply actions

Coach D imposing will

I may be naive, but I sincerely hope coach D would not ignore possibilities of any strategy that can help us win so that he can stay with his system. Maybe we should have hired Nelson when he was available. He has won 1200 games by being willing to try different approaches. Will D'Antoni ever do that? I doubt it.

'06-'07 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Jan 9, 2008 1:01 PM MST up reply actions

Ten Minutes

If Banks is supposed to get 5 to 10 minutes every game, can't Coach D then just decide if his play warrants more? He's good enough to give 5 minutes of defense and not squander the lead. If he performs better-than-expected, then he plays more.

Frightening concept, eh?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 9, 2008 1:41 PM MST up reply actions

Apology and Retraction

In this post, I wrote that Banks is not "the sharpest tool in the shed." I meant that he didn't have a high "basketball IQ" and I stand by that. However, after listening to him on the radio today, I have to say that he is one of more eloquent and intelligent speakers I've heard in a while (not to mention amongst athletes). He probably doesn't see the game as well as Steve Nash, but neither do I. So, anyway, sorry, Marcus.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 8, 2008 5:59 PM MST reply actions

Is this the interview you were talking about?

http://www.nba.com/media/suns/ktar_banks_080108.mp3

by TexSUN on Jan 9, 2008 4:30 PM MST up reply actions

Yes

That's the one

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 9, 2008 10:05 PM MST up reply actions

compared to diaw and bell

I'm feeling pretty good about Banks, he is an offensive machine that can play great defense...

diaw is the contract i want us to dump more than banks, because its 9 million vs 5 (guess by memory), and diaw is too off and on.

by jasonsuns1 on Jan 9, 2008 2:18 PM MST reply actions

Banks

It sounds like Banks is going to get a lot more opportunity for the next couple of weeks. (See my latest post).

by TexSUN on Jan 9, 2008 2:20 PM MST reply actions

Maybe too soon

to write Bell off based on last night's game against the Pacers???

by Seth Pollack on Jan 10, 2008 8:52 AM MST reply actions

Bell

I was thinking the same thing.

'06-'07 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Jan 10, 2008 9:00 AM MST up reply actions

Maybe ...

He's been in more than a slump -- I mean, it's been two months.

If Banks had one great game, would he warrant starter's minutes? No.

Similarly, one great game from Bell does not change my opinions. However, he only needs to have a couple to get back into the 30+ minute range, as he has the track record.

Tonight will be interesting because Nash didn't take the flight to Utah. Can Bell be back in form twice in a row?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 10, 2008 9:01 AM MST up reply actions

sorry Jsun

I disagree

Bell has had so many poor shooting games, as mentioned above (last 2 months)

Also Banks has had many good little showings, not just one

Link to nba.com banks info Then use player comparison to bell, pretty clear whose been shooting better, and I know bell is a great defender, but banks isn't nash on defense, he's also good (although not yet as good as bell).

hard choice, but i think banks deserves 18-20 minutes a game, not 13 (avg I think)

by jasonsuns1 on Jan 10, 2008 10:25 AM MST up reply actions

Harder on Bell?

Someone harder on Bell than me! That's rare around here.

I'd disagree that Bell is a "great defender" -- at least this year. I just haven't seen it. Also, Manu the Machine had awesome numbers in the playoff series last year.

Banks is doing the Bell thing.

I will, though, give Bell more benefit of the doubt than I would to Banks.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jan 10, 2008 1:32 PM MST up reply actions

Jazz game

I am concerned about this game. Utah is dangerous, especially at the Nuclear Waste Center (or whatever they call it).

Diaw has to come up big, and I see Banks with major minutes on Deron Williams.

'06-'07 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Jan 10, 2008 9:30 AM MST reply actions

Jazz game

See, I kind of see it the other way. Sure, there's a good chance we will lose but I don't have a problem with that since its w/o Nash and Hill so it doesn't "count" expect in the win/lose and we will be fine there at the end.

I am hoping to see more Banks (he didn't play great last night on either end) and we should see Marks or someone else as well.

The team needs more time w/o Nash. They struggled moving the ball last night and it was amazing that they just couldn't find a way to get Amare the ball in closing minutes. That said, Indy clearly (like NOH) packed it in to prevent Amare and the only way to losen that up is for other guys like LB and Bell to hit open shots.

So, this game tonight against a good team w.o Nash and Hill is a great learning opportunity even if we lose.

by Seth Pollack on Jan 10, 2008 10:54 AM MST up reply actions