Night of the Underdog: Warriors Over Suns 129-114

by TexSUN on Nov 26, 2007 11:58 PM MST in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage

I'll start with three pieces of good news:

With the exception of the Jazz-Knicks game, these were by double-digits. Slightly less relevant, the Timberwolves also beat the Hornets. In fact, of the seven games on the schedule tonight, all but two were won by the underdog.

Feel better? Good, because very little about the Suns-Warriors game brought warm fuzzies to Suns fans. Awesome night for Warriors fans. Their team played hard, focused, and truly deserved to win this game. I'm not sure there's a team in the league that would have beaten the Warriors tonight the way they were honed in on it. Still, it would have been nice to have seen the Suns at their best too, and that is something we didn't get to see.

This wasn't the worst outing of the season for the Suns by any stretch. The Lakers game on November 2 has that market cornered hands down, probably for the rest of the season. The Atlanta game, and maybe even one or two of the wins seemed a notch below in effort level as well. And I don't want to take too much credit from the Warriors, who really did bring their A+ game for the full 48 minutes. But still, the Suns are a much better defensive team than we saw tonight. It's one thing when the other team is making shots with hands in their faces, but there were countless times where the Suns almost seemed to step aside and let Warriors pass by to the rim unimpeded. That won't get it done.

On the positive side, the Suns out-rebounded the Warriors 48-39, but that was negated by the Suns having 10 more turnovers than the Warriors. Steve Nash narrowly missed a triple-double--and not the kind you want. He had eight turnovers to go with his 23 points and 13 assists. Steve shot the ball well (8-of-14), but judging by this game and the one last March, Don Nelson knows how to exploit the Nash matchup nearly as well as the Dirk Nowitzki one (understandable, given that he coached both players for years in Dallas). The Suns, on the other hand, could have done a much better job of exploiting their matchups than they did. This was one of those nights where you got the feeling either Amare Stoudemire or Boris Diaw (or both) could have had 30 had the Suns taken advantage of a Warriors lineup that had 6'9" Al Harrington starting at center. Instead, the Suns were outscored in the paint 52-42.

All that said, one of my pet peeves is when fans (and coaches and owners...you know who I'm talking about) refuse to accept that their team could lose a game simply because the other team is better. So I won't do that here. For this one night, the Warriors were the better team. They really wanted it, and they played very, very well to earn it. Hats off to them.

Player of the Game: Baron Davis or Stephen Jackson, take your pick. Monta Ellis was pretty good too.

Runner-Up: My internet connection. It was so crappy tonight that it distracted me from watching the game at times, thereby minimizing my level of fury and saving my TV from at least half a dozen flying objects.

Grading the Game: A+ for the Warriors and unbiased fans who were probably thrilled by the "upset". But this is a Suns blog. For us, I'm going with "C-". "D" seems inappropriate for a game with so little defense, and "F" is reserved for games like that one against the Lakers.

Poll

Your turn to grade the game

A - Awesome!

19 votes

B - Better than average

1 votes

C - Could be better

4 votes

D - D'oh!

8 votes

F - Flush it.

2 votes

34 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Fair analysis

But you forgot to mention the best part - that TNT commercial with Nash and Amare that was shown on NBATV. ;)

by SueB on Nov 27, 2007 5:14 AM MST reply actions

Oops, you're right I did.

Thanks for pointing it out. Somebody (jasonsuns1?) posted the link in the game thread.

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 10:56 AM MST up reply actions

Looks like

we got votes from a few GS fans in our poll. ;) Unless the majority of Suns fans really think that game was 'Awesome!'

by SueB on Nov 27, 2007 5:40 AM MST reply actions

Yup

Golden State of Mind linked us in their game thread yesterday, so we've been getting a ton of hits from that site. But this is nothing compared to what we'll see if we end up playing the Warriors in the playoffs--Warriors fans literally took over Mavs Moneyball last year.

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 10:58 AM MST up reply actions

Kept one streak alive

The Suns are now 0-3 when Nash leads the team in scoring.

by SueB on Nov 27, 2007 6:06 AM MST reply actions

Sorry for the multiple posts

But I keep finding tidbits. Maybe it was mentioned somewhere, but I guess I missed that Marcus Banks was not available for the game last night.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/102788

Condolences to him.

by SueB on Nov 27, 2007 6:15 AM MST reply actions

Thanks...

...for pointing that out. I didn't notice that article about Marcus Banks until after I had posted my recap. Otherwise, I might have cut D'Antoni a little slack. This was one game where I think Marcus would have come in handy, not that he's a better player than Nash but just that Don Nelson doesn't know Marcus's game like he does Nash's. I remember that Banks-led lineup last March nearly winning the game, and that was a worse deficit than the Suns had in this one.

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 11:00 AM MST up reply actions

Your man DJ

I has actually thinking after the 1st half that it would be fun to try a line up of Amare(or Diaw or Skinner), Hill, Marion, LB and DJ.

That would be an athletic long line up that could switch everything and still move the ball and have some punch offensively.

It seems like minor heresy to suggest the Suns would play better w/ Nash on the bench but this might have been one of those rare occasions...if nothing else it would have been fun to see.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 27, 2007 12:05 PM MST up reply actions

On DJ

Yeah, I briefly thought "D'Antoni should try DJ" too, but I can fully understand why he didn't. Even if he thought the game was hopeless (which it wasn't necessarily). Say he puts the kid in there. Say DJ gets absolutely destroyed, since the Warriors were destroying everyone on the Suns by the time the game got to the point D'Antoni might have tried DJ. Well, that just squishes the rookie's confidence for no good reason, and since it might be a while before he'd get to play again, that's not good. So while half of me would like to have seen what DJ could do, the other half of me thinks a rookie might not be the right guy to try last night, even though his strength (defense) is one thing the Suns sorely needed in this game. The again, maybe DJ would have shut down whoever he was guarding and giving himself a shot of confidence (win or lose) that would have accelerated his development by leaps and bounds. But I can't blame D'Antoni for not wanting to risk it (if that's what he was doing).

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 12:16 PM MST up reply actions

Tip of the Hat to...

...the Warriors who played like this was an very important meaningful November message game. GSW is an energy and emotion team and on any given night when dully riled up can lay a beating on any team in the league that doesn't bring their A+ game.

I agree w/ you TexSun that the Suns didn't play poorly as much as the Warriors played great. I was VERY impressed w/ how well they passed out of double teams and shared the ball. So, tip of the hat to them.

Honorable mention Hat Tips to Boris in the first half who really looked great passing the ball and on the boards. If his jumper had been on like it has all year he would have easily been in triple double range. Also to Skinner who came in during the 3rd Qtr and played great D and had some impressive low post moves around the basket (I am willing to ignore the total wiff on that baseline jumper. In fact, I think that should count as a pass instead of an FG attempt).

The only finger wag that I can think of goes to the turnovers (as mentioned). I get that the Warriors caused several but there were too many of the unforced variety. For the Suns that's usually a matter of focus and general give-a-damnedness towards the game. That was shame to see. I guess a minor pinky wag to Bell's back which obviously tightened up and put an end to some hot shooting on his part.

Ok - and one wagging hat finger tip to the Sun's defensive game plan. In the first 1/2 they came out w/ the intent of double teaming and scrambling which works well against most teams. Nellie seemed to anticpate that and they tore up the Suns by finding the open man every time. In the 2nd half the Suns stayed home more and didn't double as much and we were able to hold them under 140 for the game as a result.

All that said the Suns weren't out of the game when Nash and Amare came back in w/ 8 min left in the 4th but Ellis was on fire and looked like AI out there. Not much you can do about that.

Nice game Warriors. It was fun to watch. The first half was about as fast of a game as you could possibly see outside the All Star and I got tired just watching it.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 27, 2007 8:19 AM MST reply actions

Before I say this

it's only one game. And no one is a bigger Steve Nash supporter than me. And he's not usually this bad. And he was great offensively.

Man, Steve's defense was atrocious last night. I went back and rewatched the game, and one of our huge problems defensively was that Nash was out of position a lot of the time.

Again, it's one game, and I don't think it'll be a recurring thing, but I have to be honest, I was literally rewatching plays just trying to find where he was and what he was thinking.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 27, 2007 10:12 AM MST reply actions

You went back and watched that?

My hat's off to you. :)

But yeah, I actually think Marcus Banks might've been helpful last night, particularly (I know it sounds funny) on defense. Couldn't have done any worse.

by SueB on Nov 27, 2007 10:17 AM MST up reply actions

Great point

Nash was -17 in 35 min while LB was -6 in 25 min and Skinner was -1 in 15 min which was the best +/- result on the team.

I recall in the past the Coach getting on Nash for trying to help too much on defense.

I am not sure I have time for a re-watch (or the stomach for it) but I am curious SonofA if you noticed a difference in the 1st half and 2nd?

It seemed that the Suns defensive plan was too blame as much as Steve's actual play. In the first half they we helping and doubling while in the 2nd they played straight up and Nellie went right at Steve 1:1 regardless of who he was on.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 27, 2007 10:46 AM MST up reply actions

Hat-tipping, finger wags, and more

Great comments everyone. Kudos to sunofa for going back and watching that again. Great analysis by srp as well. Don Nelson knows exactly how to exploit that Nash matchup, however, in retrospect, I might have been a little tough on Nash when I compared it to Nelson vs. Nowitzki. Steve wasn't that ineffective. :)

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 11:17 AM MST up reply actions

on GS

I think with their speed, hustle, and scoring we have seen the best offensive we're going to be up against (doesn't include us, can't face yourselves, even though their offense was better than ours last night). Plus their raw speed on defense, Nash just got taken apart, I haven't heard from anyone, was it bad passing by steve for all the turnovers, or just those guys (GS) being quicker.

The question is this, if we played 10 games against GS, how would Nash do in the other games? I know steve is smart, and would adjust, but how do you adjust to a team with 2-3 players that are simply fantastic as far as speed and ball deflections like GS is, plus run with Nelson... this is the first team, after seeing them tear down the mavs, and now us, that I think (when on) is a tough matchup for us, besides the 3 other main teams (Boston, SA, & Dallas).

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 27, 2007 12:33 PM MST up reply actions

Checking the Tape

I went back and watched the 1st quarter which ended w/ GSW up 45 to 37.

I replayed each GSW possession in slo-mo and watched the Suns D. In the first 8 minutes or so they really took advatage of playing Al Harrington on the post and pulling Amare away from the hoop. He didn't look good out there and in the GSW 1/2 court sets that was the key. Nash got beat by Ellis only once side pick and roll where Diaw switched on to the ball and Nash didn't roll w/ AH and he was open for a dunk. One other time Ellis used a high screen by AH where Nash and Amare (playing far from the hoop) got tangled and Ellis got into the lane. Other then that the key to the GSW lead was the Suns turn-overs.

In Q1 the Suns had 6 unforced and Nash was 3 of those. GSW had 5 more FG attempts and were up by 8.

In Q2 and Q3 the Suns only dropped 1 and 2 points and then in Q4 we know what Ellis did AND the Suns only scored 22. I will watch Q4 later if I have time.

So anyway - in the Q1 45 point run out it was Suns turnovers, some nice fast break points on a few Suns misses and Al Harrington pulling Amare away from the hoop and hitting a few 3's that did it. Cut those turnovers down and even w/ GSW shooting well it would have been tied or Suns lead.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 27, 2007 3:00 PM MST up reply actions

srp

Thanks for doing that, very cool! On turnovers by Nash, from what you saw (remember I'm on radio), bad judgement by Nash, or lack of his teammates moving, etc, something else.

It sounds like GS has 3-4 players that cut to the hoop as well as any team in the league. They know very well, draw the defense out with great 3 point shooting, bring them back (to free up outside) with drives and layups. I really like this GS team, they're not the best when losing (when they lose, they act poor as people from what little I've seen), but as far as a fun team to watch, that can score a lot of points, they're very good, I wonder just how good.

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 27, 2007 6:40 PM MST up reply actions

Nash

Frankly it was more poor decisions then anything else. I read somewhere that he said he felt like he was pressing and made some overly agressive plays. It just looked a bit sloppy like some of the earlier games this season. That said, I suspect the GSW offense had something to do with it. Makes you feel like you have to do more. Just proves that Nash is in fact human.

I heard GSW's system described by someone (can't recall where I read/heard this) as inside out. Not like throw it inside and kick it out but more like a pair of socks turned inside out. They play their bigs out on the perimeter and post up their guards and then run screens and picks with guys that usually don't so you end up w/ your center totally confused b/c he is guarding someone out at the 3pt line and then they drive and you have your guards collapse in the paint. Its total chaos.

But, like anything else they have weaknesses. First, if they have an off shooting night they are toast. And more importantly bigger teams (like Utah) will kill them on the glass (as did the Suns) and pound them down low. Its kind of like the 05-06 Suns team w/o Amare. They also aren't deep beyond 6 or 7 players and Baron hasn't exactly proven to be a durable player. Although he is in a contract year and as someone pointed out is carrrying around a lot fewer Krispy Kreme's this year.

I think they will win a bunch of games but the Suns can certainly take them as can the Spurs and Utah. I think they could potentially out run Houston and of course they are so into Dirk's head that who knows if they can but the Mavs should be able to match up w/ them if they played a little smarter and w/ more heart.

If they can stay healthy, I think they are likely a 5 to 7 seed in the West and maybe about equal to LA or Denver. They can be dangerous at times like a puncher but I don't think they should really be a threat to win a series against one of the big 3.

We don't play them again until March 13th which I will have to circle on my calendar even though its my aniversary. Fortunately, wife will be happy w/ Suns tickets instead of some fancy dinner...

by Seth Pollack on Nov 27, 2007 7:37 PM MST up reply actions

cool

lets hope suns win that one for your anniversary gift

later

Thanks for more info again, I can definitely see Nash pressing with an offense like GS rolling like it was.

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 27, 2007 10:52 PM MST up reply actions

Atrocious D!

No question, the Warriors were shooting lights out, just as the Suns so often do (and did pretty well), but that's where that so-called "much improved defense" needs to take over.

Sunofa seems to be reading my mind--I was literally thinking "man, that was atrocious D, but it's only one game." They can't win 'em all, but I hate to see the Suns on the receiving end of lay-up drills and shooting practice, and those turnovers were rough.

On the upside, and the final outcome notwithstanding, it was a fun game to watch--the Ws really carved up the Suns interior D with lots of nifty passing, cutting, and unselfish play.

by SoCalSun on Nov 27, 2007 10:49 AM MST reply actions

The latest from Simmons

This is great. The Sports Guy's take on bringing his kid to her first NBA game at age 2 1/2. Something to lighten the mood. :)

by TexSUN on Nov 27, 2007 12:11 PM MST reply actions

Warriors

To me, when the Warriors are playing well, they could be damn near impossible to beat when they're at home. They thrive so much on the crowd (which was unbelievable last night), that they look like they have the confidence to make every shot. And that seemed to happen last night, because the crowd and the players came out like it was a playoff game.

I really don't like how we match up against the Warriors. It seems like we might have some trouble with the younger, more athletic teams such as in the Golden State and Atlanta games. Those games it seems like we need to still run and gun but have more of a focus on defense and rebounding.

You guys are right, our defense last night was atrocious, but it wasn't just Nash. It seemed like even our better defenders, like Hill and Marion, were getting out of position many times, specifically on the backdoor play...

But who can really complain? We just got off an 8 game winning streak and, with the Spurs losing, are half a game back in the west at 11-3. Now only if those damn Celtics would lose!

by brian13 on Nov 27, 2007 12:46 PM MST reply actions

We were bad defensively overall

because we didn't establish ourselves on either end of the floor.

Golden State may be the only team that can beat us at our own game.

Nash was pressing. And if you want evidence, watch the 2nd and 3rd quarters. He was doing that thing where he brings the ball up and whips it to Marion or Bell, and he's throwing it so hard it looks like he's going to punch a whole through them with the ball. It was pretty obvious he was frustrated.

It wouldn't hurt to have Leandro work a bit on defense so we have a small point guard to play D. Problem was last night, D put Bell on Davis, and SJax went OFF.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 27, 2007 10:41 PM MST reply actions