Rockets Send Suns to First Losing Streak of the Season (100-94)

by TexSUN on Nov 28, 2007 9:50 PM MST in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage

Oh so close! This game was right there for the taking, but the Rockets are the ones who came away with it. I'm not sure whether to credit the Rockets for playing well, or the five Suns not named Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and Shawn Marion for leaving their shooting accuracy in the lockerroom (OK, Brian Skinner gets a pass too for making his one attempt).

This was kind of a strange game. The Suns never got their running game going, which means they weren't able to run Yao Ming off the floor. As a result, Yao shot 12-of-19 for 31 points, grabbed 13 rebounds, and was able to get back on defense in time to help clog up the middle. The Rockets shot 52% to the Suns' 41%, and out-rebounded the Suns by 13. And yet, the Suns were right there at the end and had a chance to take the lead before a missed three by Leandro Barbosa turned into a made two by the Rockets, effectively finishing things off. Missed shots by LB were kind of a recurring theme, as he went 2-of-11, and missed all three of his three-point attempts. But he wasn't the only one. While the Suns' "big three" combined for a very respectable 25-of-51, the rest of the Suns shot 9-31. So was it just good defense by the Rockets? I'm not sure. It really looked to me like the Suns just weren't playing with energy tonight. For the most part, they seemed content to play the game at a pace Yao could handle. It will be interesting to hear what the players have to say in the postgame quotes.

One thing of note, though. I vaguely recall both Leandro Barbosa and Grant Hill taking some hits in the first half. It looked like LB landed funny after taking a shot, and after Grant got knocked to the floor on one play, the announcers mentioned he was holding his back. Perhaps this played a role in their combined 21% shooting tonight. But it could also be due to the Rockets defense, which packed it in and forced a lot of passing around the perimeter instead of the usual drive and kick. Either way, the ugly shooting from most of the non-"big three" was pretty much the straw that put it out of reach.

Player of the Game: Yao Ming. Easily the best I've seen him play against the Suns.

Runner-Up: Steve Nash. He came darn close to pulling off one of his MVP-type takeovers there at the end.

Grading the Game: I'm going to leave this one to the readers tonight. I just can't decide.

Poll

Your turn to grade the game

A - Awesome!

3 votes

B - Better than average

0 votes

C - Could be better

6 votes

D - D'oh!

5 votes

F - Flush it.

1 votes

15 votes | Poll has closed

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alando tucker

Link to article on Tucker, says here he can really shoot

So, what happened. Sounds like Tucker, even though he played 4 yrs in college, was hurt so much that maybe his experience is only 2+ yrs. Interesting.

It could be a simple thing such as, he wants to play and knows he won't here, not in D'antoni's never play a rookie theory! Sun's have a history of screwing over their rookies, look at Nash, and now Tucker. We don't try hard enough to develop them. But, it sounds like the D league can help Tucker. Does he still get paid what the suns signed him for, if that is true, which I'm sure it is, I personally would rather go down and play every night instead of ride the bench, or even go to a team where I could break the top 5.

I'd rather be on a team and play 30+ minutes a game, than ride the bench and win a ring. You?

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 28, 2007 11:07 PM MST reply actions

more on tucker

and another

Good reading

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 28, 2007 11:17 PM MST up reply actions

Pretty sure that's how it works

He'll still get his NBA salary. And the Suns can also call him back up at any time. And also, the D-League playoffs happen in April, so even if he played the entire rest of the D-League season there and won a championship with them, he'd still be able to come back in time to get a ring with the Suns too. BTW, I forgot to mention in the earlier post, Albuquerque won the championship last season:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20060422/ABQFTW/recap.html

by TexSUN on Nov 28, 2007 11:16 PM MST up reply actions

Late to this news

Missed this news last night because I watched the game after the fact and wasn't on-line. And of course the Rockets announcers never mentioned it. I guess I'm not that upset. I'm sure Tucker could use some minutes. I remember last year Jordan Farmar played a lot of games for the Lakers' D-League team. Of course, it's located right there in LA, not the next state over.

Can the Suns replace his spot on the roster?

by SueB on Nov 29, 2007 7:20 AM MST up reply actions

i don't think so

But I could be wrong, I think it's more of a get the guy more playing time, after all the injuries during his school yrs.

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 29, 2007 7:27 AM MST up reply actions

Good move

I love that teams in the NBA now have the option to send a guy like this down to get some playing time. It has proven w/ other players around the league to be a great move. I heard on the radio DJ will likely spend some time w/ the T-birds this year as well. I guess we need to start following the T-birds a bit.

I hope eventually Tucson gets a D league team as a true Suns farm team so they can run our systems and style. The Lakers do this - their D league team runs the triangle offense.

These guys need to play and get good solid minutes.

Young teams - no matter how talented (see Hawks, Atlanta and Sonics, Seattle and T-blazers, Portland) don't win in this league. Playing our rookies more would make the Suns worse in the short term and as we all know this is a team looking to win now and not build for the future.

The starting 7 still haven't gelled this early in the season and I think Coach D treats his young studs like a baseball manager with struggling young players. If you pull a guy that goes 0-4 or a struggling pitcher too soon you shake their confidence and make the situation worse then just a few bad games. We know that LB, Diaw, Bell and Hill can all play. Pulling them in a close game b/c they aren't playing well isn't the answer. Its a sign of desperation and lack of faith.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 29, 2007 8:46 AM MST up reply actions

About the game ...

Not much to add to the observations in the game thread (LB?! WTF!).

The disappointing thing about it was that this had the look and feel of an intense playoff game, and the Suns couldn't pull it out. I just thought they were going to be able to, but they didn't. That makes it more disappointing to me than any of the other losses so far.

I saw in the box score that Boris was -18 in less than 18 minutes of playing time. Is that right? How can that be? That's terrible! Nobody else was anywhere close to that bad.

I don't mind Yao going off for 31 points, but Alston/Francis combining for 24 was ridiculous.

sigh And things get no easier on Friday.

by SueB on Nov 29, 2007 7:26 AM MST reply actions

A good loss

This game reminded me a lot of several of our loses to the Spurs in the playoffs last year. The supporting cast - LB and friends - didn't play well and the Suns lost. But barely.

It seemed to me that Houston came in totally fired up to both avenge their recent beating by the Suns and also prove to themselves (and the media) that they can in fact play with this (our) team. So, for Houston this was as an important game you can have in November while for the Suns it was...well just another game.

That said, I think the Suns did play hard and their D was pretty good. They had a ton of blocks and steals and Marion's double teams on Yao and Hill's locking up McGrady really stood out. They held the Rockets to 100 pts on a night when some of their supporting cast that usually doesn't - did. 8 times out of 10 if the Suns hold a team like Houston to 100 they will win.

The issue last night - and here in lies the lesson - was that the Rockets played tough man up D and didn't let LB and the other guys get open. It was the same strategy the Mavs usually take by not doubling Nash and holding the other guys down. This generally is the most effective D against the Suns and they will need to learn to get past it. Ergo - a good loss. If just one other guy had been able to get a little hot the Suns would have pulled this one out. And they almost did anyway but in the final few minute the Rockets out-willed the Suns. They simply wanted it more and to me, that's the story line for this game.

It sets up a great match up on Friday w/ Orlando. That's another team coming in with a HUGE motivation to get a crucial early season road win to "prove themselves" and you have a Suns team that will be focused and hungry to "end the skid". I would expect a playoff like atmosphere. I wish I could be there.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 29, 2007 8:34 AM MST reply actions

I can see your point

about calling it a "good loss" because they barely lost when only three players were scoring. But the fact that it reminds you of playoff losses to the Spurs is the exact thing that made it so maddening to me. It did feel like a playoff game, and the Suns lost. And this wasn't the Spurs or the Mavs, it was the Rockets. Not a bad team, but one I think the Suns should defeat.

It reminds me of when Grant Hill was at Duke, and they lost his last game - the NCAA final. Had they won, it would've been his third collegiate championship, but Arkansas won on a last-second shot. And Coach K said something like, "We had a chance to win at the end, and we just didn't." And to me, that was last night's game. When it's close at the end, sometimes you win and sometimes you don't. But at least you had the chance. In that way, it was a good loss.

by SueB on Nov 29, 2007 9:07 AM MST up reply actions

Not a Good Loss

This is The Grand Debate, isn't it?
On the one side: "Well, if just one more Sun had stepped up, then we would've won. So, let's be optimistic and hope they can pull it out next time."
On the other side: "The defensive plan was very effective. The Rockets let the Suns' All-Stars kill them, but got the win. The pessimist says this is a repeatable event."

It's kind of a toss-up, and is dependant on your philosophy as well as the reality of whether the other Suns had an "off-night" or were actually shut down.

The breaker here, though, was the atrocious defensive. Against the Rockets, I don't really care about the boards, either (Yao is very tall). The Rockets shot 52% and about 50% from 3-point range.

Now, some of those guys were open because the Suns were doubling Yao. To that, I ask: "Why did the Suns post defenders let Yao get so deep that he had to be doubled?" 8-10 feet out he's not nearly as dangerous as 5 feet and in.

Hill and Marion did an admirable job on T-Mac (meaning, he didn't destroy the Suns), when they were able to lock-in on him. But, when the Suns switched and scrambled on defense, other guys were open.

If the Suns can have the post defenders keep the offensive post players out of the deep block, then Marion/Hill/Bell can lock down the perimeter player(s) and the less-than-average defenders (you know who you are) can stick close to their man. To me, that is where is all starts -- keeping the post players out of the deep block and allowing our talented perimeter defenders to do their thing (sound like a plan for the Spurs?).

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 29, 2007 9:37 AM MST up reply actions

I am Homer

I guess I am in full homer denial-of-all-things-bad-about-the-Suns-mode (doh!) but I will go with this not being a big deal. Consider:

The Suns offense didn't look good and didn't adjust to the D schemes Houston ran. LB tried but it just wasn't his night. There's a reason he isn't yet an all star and is still "only" a sixth man. He's not ready to be Nash and dominate on demand. He's getting closer though...Hill and Bell both had stiff backs and it showed. Marion was GREAT. Diaw wasn't.
The Suns D schemes basically dared their "other guys" to hit shots. They did. But they did so at a clip beyond their norm. So, if you went into the game knowing the T-Mac and Yao account for the vast majority of the Rockets points and your plan is to shut down T-Mac (check) and take the ball out of Yao's hands (done well early in the game) and let the other guys beat you. Well, that's a solid plan on most nights. Still. They only scored 100 on a good shooting night. And the Suns D after some adjustments did better in the 2nd half then in the first. I say again. For the Suns, teams that score 100 points shouldn't and won't beat you on most nights. Suns D was fine.
As mentioned - the Rockets were HIGHLY motivated to get a win and played like it. They out-willed the Suns. That's not a cardinal sin in November. Its not like the Lakers game were only one team bothered to show up at all.
It was a 2 pt game w/ 2 min left. They got a circus shot from Stevie F and a big stop. We didn't. It was still that close. We aren't going to beat these playoff teams each and every game but I would rather be us then them in a series.

/homer

by Seth Pollack on Nov 29, 2007 4:11 PM MST up reply actions

I'm a Homer, too

My point is that a loss like this can be argued either way.

However, I disgree with your statement that the defense a good job. When another team shoots over 50% that is not a good job. Houston only scored 100 because of the slow pace of the game. That's not reflective of good defense. If it's an up-tempo, up-and-down game, then holding the other side to 100 would be a good thing, but not in this gaem.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 30, 2007 9:43 AM MST up reply actions

Good point

but I will add one more beating to this dead horse:

I wish I could look at the box score by half but from what I recall the Suns doubled Yao in the first half and locked up McGrady and dared their other guys to hit open shots.

That night they were making them. So, in the 2nd half the Suns changed the game plan and stayed home. As a result the Rockets scored 27 and 29 in Q1 and Q2 (with a lot of 3's) but only 21 and 23 in Q3 and Q4. Sure, the FG% was high but that was a result of their "other guys" hitting open shots and then Yao being single guarded in the 2nd half. Yao is one of those guys that will get his points. You can't shut him down him 1:1. No one can. You beat him on the offensive end by running his legs out. And that's where the Suns were weak. They only scored 21 and 21 in Q3 and Q4 and weren't ever able to get the offense going well enough to tire out Yao. So, that's why I don't fault the Suns' D and in fact am VERY impressed w/ the way the Suns wings (Hill and Marion) locked up T-Mac.

The Rockets D and/or the Suns O was the bigger factor IMHO.

And what made it most familiar to the Spurs series was their other guys hit open and big timely shots and ours didn't.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 30, 2007 10:37 AM MST up reply actions

More poor D, I think, and not enough running

The Suns generally operate on the principle that if your offense is good enough, then the D is somewhat secondary--as long as you outscore the opponent, you'll get the win. D'antoni's postgame comments were along these lines: He lamented that the Suns only scored 42 2nd-half points, and that just wasn't enough.

The biggest problem isn't so much the D overall, but situational D--like down the stretch where they needed it. The Suns shot pretty poorly for most of the 2nd-half, but even when they did finally get it going they gave it right back on the other end.

The Rockets did play pretty good D themselves, but the Suns let them off the hook by not speeding up the tempo and allowing the Rockets to get set in the half-court.

As others have noted, it's still early, it's only the Suns 4th loss, and if they can go through the season with 4 losses a month they'll be in good shape when April rolls around. As badly as they seemed to be playing last night, they were in a position to win it there at the end. I would have liked to see them pull it out (duh), but hopefully this will get them motivated for the revenge-minded Magic on Friday.

by SoCalSun on Nov 29, 2007 10:16 AM MST reply actions

Stops down the stretch

Actually, I do remember several good defensive stops toward the end of the game, when the Suns were able to chisel the lead down to one or two. But after two chances to tie or take the lead, the one stop they needed, they let Francis get inside and make an (admittedly tough) shot, the lead was back to 4 and that was it. But I do think the defense picked up at the end of the game. Wish they would play that hard more often throughout the course of the game, so they wouldn't fall behind by 10 or 12 in the first place.

by SueB on Nov 29, 2007 10:33 AM MST up reply actions