Greed is Good

by JSun on Dec 3, 2007 4:38 PM MST

[Editor's Note: I'm making this the front page post for today. Thanks, JSun, for a well thought-out diary about the subject of several recent comments.]

This started as a comment, but I felt the need for self-aggrandizement and turned it into a diary.

I wanted to make a comment about Amare's "tiff" with fellow teammates Bell and Banks. Well ... as for Banks, I don't think he's got any room to talk. But, the play in which Amare stalled the offense and turned the ball over merits discussion.

It was a bad play. I don't know if anyone denies that. However, I see many comments (not just in that post but in others as well) about Amare being a black hole with the ball. Really, it's not a "black hole" when he's averaging 20 points in 29 minutes and shooting over 50%. And, I like that he's selfish because he wants the ball and he wants to finish the game.

He's driven. It's very hard to succeed without being driven.

He's becoming a better passer and more aware of the court. He'd have more assists but for teammates not expecting his pass -- I'll let them slide on this for a while as his history isn't exactly Nash-esque. He can hit outside shots and score from the post. As his passing improves, he is going to open up the offense. Once he learns this better and his teammates realize he's passing, they'll be moving, too. The start-up to the offense may be at a slower pace (as I pray that Amare does not try to lead breaks), but the ball will move just as much.

There will be as much ball movement as ever before. On the sad day that Nash hangs up his shoes, Amare will be central to the Suns' chance at a title. If the day ever comes that Nash is playing at a slower level, Amare will need to be there. When the Suns need sure points and grind out a contest in the half-court and at the free throw line, Amare is crucial.

I like the fact that he slams the Bobcats. I like the fact that he calls out Bruce Bowen. I like the fact that he gives the other team Bulletin Board Material. I like the fact that he gets emotional with teammates. He makes the game fun and he is more than willing to put the Suns on his back.

He may not be joining Mensa any time soon, but let the man talk. You know what? Anyone who can keep as relatively straight and narrow as he has with his baggage knows something about something -- and probably quite a bit about basketball.

That said, I still cringe when he plays defense. For the life of me, I can't see how he let Curry run amok last night (or left Curry open so much when the Knicks were in Phx).

Although Howard had a big night last Friday, what is anyone supposed to do when Howard gets a lob two feet from the basket? (Except, I suppose, don't let him get there). At least he didn't pick up dumb fouls and take himself out of the game. He had two in the 1st period and finished the game with 3. He had one play that reminded me of TD: on a pick and roll, he slid over to help but the guard got by, then he tracked back and swatted the guard from behind. Later that night, I woke up screaming, "Tim Duncan!" He did, also, get that block on Howard. He did a so-so job on Yao, but that really is the best anyone can hope for when the rest of your team isn't running Yao out of the gym. Notice, too, that he's batting away about 2-4 entry passes per game while defending his man in the post.

His defense is not good, but it's improving. I tend to think he'll keep improving. His passing is getting close to mediocre, but he's improving there as well. His rebounding is well ... he needs to improve that, as well.

By the way, I heard Amare on the radio after the game dissing Howard's game. I don't remember the precise quote, but he said something to the effect that Howard's game is all from 5 feet and in, but that he likes to be a more versatile center (yes, he called himself a "center") who can hit jumpers, make passes and take big men off the dribble. Gotta love the smack!

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Comments

Great post

I agree with pretty much everything. Without Amare, this team would not be able to compete for the championship.

by SueB on Dec 3, 2007 4:56 PM MST reply actions

My thoughts

First off, thanks for taking the time to write such a well thought-out response to the mini-debate going on in the comments of several posts.

As for me, I'm not fond of Amare's self-aggrandizing at all. Judging by his quotes in the media, he comes off as someone who really wouldn't be a lot of fun to go to work with day in, day out. But--and this is a big "but"--everyone I have ever talked to who has actually met Amare in person said he was very polite and not "superstar" at all. So maybe the bragging is just an image he projects to the media, or maybe he was just showing his "good side" to those poeple, who knows.

All that said, you don't give up your 25-year-old inside presence unless you're getting back something darn good in return. As long as he's on my team, I'll cheer for him as much as any of the other guys--even if his big mouth does make me cringe at least half a dozen times a year.

by TexSUN on Dec 3, 2007 7:07 PM MST reply actions

nice article...

Amare's a really good player, no question there. But the Suns need a smart player now, not a player that we keep waiting on..and waiting on...

Marion has so many things he is great at, for his skill and potential, Marion is awesome.

Here's the thing, Amare seems to be one of maybe 5 players that has the skill and potential to be the best in the league. But, if you notice who the actual top 5 players are, you'd see duncan and nash there, 2 players that aren't off the charts skill and potential wise, but are off the charts mentally.

I don't think Amare is a "black hole", I think he has many moments when he is that fantastic player that really makes my jaw drop...but...I see that player only for a few seconds, not a whole game.

For his smack talking, etc...there's so much in regards to that, that I simply can't comment on it. It could be in fun, it could be his way of pushing himself, it could.... (you get the idea...I'm not going to guess). I do like the fact that he wants to be the best. There's no question his 15-18 ft shot is great. But he hates rebounding, he doesn't have the drive to rebound like Howard, or some others do. Our team has so many offensive threats, I'd take Howard over Amare any day. Of course, this might be a mistake, I don't know much about Howard, but the idea is a great rebounder.

Amare is now where near a smart defender (he makes
great blocks sometimes), but doesn't understand how to play strong positional defense, if he did, he wouldn't have to make blocks that tend to be makeup actions for not stopping a player from getting close to the hoop in the first place, I know he gets burned on a lot of foul calls by the refs, but, he also gets a lot of those fouls because of poor defense. Here's the saddest thing,
if he does catch on defensively, and he probably will (I think in 2-3 yrs or longer), then he'll be great. But, then we'll likely be w/o Nash, and thats a big deal.

The way Amare was yelling at his teammates (from what I've read...youtube link anyone?), it reminds me of seeing Dirk yell at his teammates 2 yrs ago during the series against us (In which we beat them w/o Amare). But..this quickly gets into the category of..we really only have some of the details....I hope Amare plays great in the playoffs, and Barbosa doesn't disappear, because as much as I want to believe Nash can be around for 5 more yrs, and I think we could still win it in 2-3 yrs, but, for me, this is our best collective chance, especially with Hill and Skinner turning out so great!

Marion is on his way out, I honestly think part of the Joe Johnson leaving..had to do somewhat with Amare, as will Marion leaving.... The suns have made many mistakes with players like Marbury before, lets just hope Amare proves me wrong...
(I am)

by jasonsuns1 on Dec 4, 2007 3:06 AM MST reply actions

Amare..

Definitely agree with 99% of the post. I love Amare's confident (borderline cocky) attitude. We need that kind of spark on the team. It's like the anti-Duncan. And like you said, he does need to improve his passing, defense, and rebounding and I think he has been slowly, but sometimes it seems like more of an effort thing than a knowledge/skill thing.

The only part I would disagree with is Banks not having room to talk. We don't know what was said so we can't really judge that much but I think that everyone on the team, including Banks, should give input when they feel like it could help and not be afraid to speak up. They are as much a part of the team as anyone else and he might see things on the sidelines that someone else doesn't.

by brian13 on Dec 4, 2007 3:21 AM MST reply actions

Amare - the White Hole

I am going to leave off the debate about Amare's personality and just generally say (again) that there's very few professional athletes that I would be interested in hanging out with. Of course, the same can be said for most lawyers.

It is funny though that folks are debating Amare as the "Black Hole" with the ball when I have had exactly the opposite sense so far this season. Countless times, the ball has gone into Amare and instead of forcing something he has passed back back out and the ball has moved around to someone more open. In the past, any time Amare had the ball he was taking it in no matter what. Now, he seems much more patient and looking less to get his own shot.

The stat's bear this out as well. Amare is 4th on the team in FGA's and 1st (barely) in PPG. The Suns are an INCREDIBLY balanced team and a guy like Amare (especially at his age) could easily be looking to score 30 points a night but I think to his credit he realizes that the team is better when the points are balanced and he's clearly trying to improve his defense - and yes, he's got work to do on that front. But I am left with a lot of admiration for a guy that is playing like a team player and leaving a LOT personal glory on the table by sharing the ball as well as he is.

Also - let's not forget that guys like TD and KG are 5 to 7 years older and things like passing and positional defense are exactly the kinds of things that improve with experience. This was deffinately true for Karl Malone.

I love this team b/c of its balance and how completely committed they are to playing the team game. On any night you've got so many different players that can carry the team and lately it seems like that role changes even throughout the game. Amare is totally on board with this concept and congrats to him for it. I just wish Marion (how is playing GREAT) would wrap his head around the plan and be happy with what he's got.

And yes, I love Amare's passion and have no problem w/ his big mouth. I love when players show emotion.

by Seth Pollack on Dec 4, 2007 8:32 AM MST reply actions

On Lawyers and Radio Hosts

Lawyers and athletes and radio hosts are insufferable sometimes.

Only because I need a forum to vent ...

I was listening to Hans and Franz on the way into work this morning (why does Wolfley insist on speaking like Hulk Hogan?) and they were discussing some similar points.

I cannot believe how uninformed they are and how poorly they structured their arguments. Doug goes on about how Amare is a "black hole" and laments that the Suns' championship hopes hinge on his ability to perform, which, apparently, hinges on his ability not to pick up cheap fouls on the defensive end.

Well, which is it, buddy? Complaining about his defense is valid, but it's a non sequitor to complain about it while calling him a black hole on offense.

Again, I ask, how is he a black hole when he's scoring 20 points in 29 minutes and averaging over 50%?

And, if he's such a cancer to the offense, why is it important that he avoid cheap fouls on defense?

The guy can drive or shoot out of the high post and he's learning how to pass. He can score out of the low post and learning how to pass from there. I'm not worried about his offense come April, May and June.

If you're going to complain, complain about the fact that he lets bigger player establish a deep post very early in the possession. Or, complain about his lack of willingness to box out for defendsive rebounds (for some strange reason, he appears to me to work harder for offensive rebounds).

Anyway, I'm getting sick of this. The only way to improve Amare's offensive game is to run more -- not less -- of the offense through him. Maybe that's in the best interests of the team and maybe it's not. I'm not smart enough to know and I'm not the coach. From now on, though, I'm going to throw something at someone everytime I hear the "black hole" comment.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Dec 4, 2007 9:37 AM MST up reply actions