KT Trade redeux

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 21, 2007 1:31 PM MDT Comment 16 comments

[I really appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in and share your thoughts about the KT trade. We've had some great discussions going, both from those taking the "wait and see" approach, and those who think this trade is the worst idea the Suns' front office has had in many years. I especially want to thank Vash01 for breaking the news initially, and DrStrom for also posting a diary, as well as everyone who offered their opinions in the comments. The most recent diary on the subject is the following by srp, who has some interesting ideas on what the Suns' next move should be. -TexSUN]

So a few hours into the post KT era and I figured I would sum up my reaction. This started as a reply to a comment in the original thread but I decided that I had a) enough words for a diary and b) hadn't posted a diary in a long long time.

So, my thoughts:

Dropping KT's contract is a savings of $16m next year ($8m in salary and $8m in Lux Tax). As much as we liked him - that's a TON of money to be paying for a guy whose role is spotty at best.

I like KT and loved having him on the Suns but I can't fault the team for thinking that he wasn't worth $16m to "guard" Tim Duncan for a few games.

And I say "guard" b/c really it wasn't as if he shut him down. He just looked good getting scored on.

Coach D doesn't like him on offense b/c he doesn't move enough and frankly at 6'9" with about the same verticle jump as Nash he wasn't tearing down the rim either.

Sure, losing a 1st round pick in 2010 sucks but there's a lot of time between now and then to get that back some other way.

Now - let's see if the Suns can find a big man. Chris Mihm is still out there. Verajao - although he would probably need closer to $8m and that's not worth it. PJ Brown for real cheap couldn't hurt although I wouldn't exactly hang my hat on his 38 y/o legs. Here's a link btw to an up-to-date list of available free agents:http://www.hoopshype.com/free_agency.htm

Anyway - 75% of game time is going to have Amare, Marion, Bell, and Nash and Hill/Tucker/LB/Diaw and maybe more Banks this year on the floor.

There's just not that much room for another player so why pay KT $8m + $8m in LT for him to barely contribute when you can fill that role for much much less.

Somewhere in basketball land is a solid, defending, energetic, tough minded, athletic center just dying to play in Phx for $1m - $2m.

Oh - and I will just keep saying this in hopes that everytime I do it becomes closer to reality.

Trading Pike straight up for Petro or Sene in Seattle is the deal that needs to be done. For both sides.

Seattle - and bare with me regular readers of srp as I repeat myself - is LOADED w/ bigs.
Go check it out.

They have Swift, Sene and Petro all at 7ft. Then Collison is a tough defending/rebounding PF while Wilcox is a more athletic big at PF. And now they have KT too! They've got Durant, Jeff Green, Wilkins and friends as swing men but the only guards are really Ridnour and Delonte West. They TOTALLY need a guy like Pike that can come in off the bench and hit 40% from 3. Some one for Durant to kick the ball to.

Franky, the Sonics (and Blazers) in a two or three years are going to be dominating the West - but that's another story. In the mean time they need Pike and we need Petro. Let's get it done!

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One thing

I think that's definitely the right way to look at this trade: KT isn't worth 16M. So I'm glad you're finding your own peace with this.

But one thing: the Hoopshype list isn't of current free agents. It's a little out of date. Mihm's already resigned with the Lakers, Mo Williams with the Bucks, and a few others.

One guy on there that's released and I really like is James Singleton. He's an undersized PF but he's a solid D man and athletic. Kelvin Cato's floating around too, but I doubt he's got much left.

But yeah, I do wonder who our 13th player will be, since I'm fairly sure Strawberry will be our 12th.

by rosewood on Jul 21, 2007 2:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Cato

One thing I've always loved about Cato -- even when he was in college -- was his ability to time shots and send them back in opponents' faces with those long arms.

Plus, he does have a big body to at least bang inside.

However, I agree with you're question about how much he has left at this point.

I'd love to know what's going on in Steve Kerr's mind right now.

"I am not a role model. A million guys can dunk a basketball in jail, should they be role models?" - Charles Barkley

by kcbrett5 on Jul 21, 2007 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Petro

That's why I love Petro so much. He's exactly that kind of Cato player w/ hussle and athletic defense that Cato used to have.

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2007 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

FANTASTIC!

This was a great piece. I am so pleased that you have taken the right view on this, and I hadn't thought of it that way before. Nice.

by ASUmike on Jul 21, 2007 6:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2007 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for the write up

It's great to hear that we're not going to be a lottery team now or in 2010.

by AZSEAfan on Jul 22, 2007 12:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Lottery team?

Will I wish I had the power to either control or even predict what the Suns will or won't be.

But I have a hard time thinking any team w/ Amare, Nash and LB is going to be a lottery team anytime soon.

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

No One

It'd be nice to think we can get someone else out there to slow down TD, but there simply isn't anyone out there who can do it (Mihm signed early last week and Brown isn't coming out of retirement).

KT got a steal or two and a block or two against Duncan each game. He also pushed Duncan out. He made life harder for Duncan, which is outstanding defending against the Big Fundamental -- it's all you can hope for.

KT could do so because he wasn't busting his rear end on the other end of the floor.

Also, KT hit the 12-footer. No one else (save Nash) hits taht shot. The best way to defend the Suns is to take away the lane, take away the 3 pointers and give up the shots between 8 and 20 feet.

Therefore, we lose the only guy capable of putting up a roadblock against Duncan and we lose the only guy hitting the shot the Spurs are giving us.

The move keeps the Suns competitive for years to come (a lot more playoff appearances without a deep run), but decreases the chances of winning a title next year.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 22, 2007 2:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

on your post

I really was happy with how K.Thomas played against the spurs, he's a professional guy with a great attitude, something Amare currently lacks. It was amazing how many people on the radio (in Phx, I'm here for a week on business) and the newspaper (azrepublic) thought this was a horrible deal. There were people actually bringing up the D.J. for Rick Robey deal in comparison, pretty sad.

Quite simple, for the roster we have, it's not worth paying K.Thomas what we were going to pay him just to keep him for the Spurs. I wish our contract for him was 2-3 million, then we'd keep him. Too many overpaid players in the nba. Anyone remember the d-backs, and all the debt that team got into, and how after one title, the team went in 100 directions. I like that this team will be together for a few more years.

I like Amare, he has the potential to be the best player in the league, in skill and athleticism, he has few equals, but he's years away from being the consistent impact of a tim duncan or kevin garnett. I hope he proves me wrong, but until that happens, I say we trade amare for k.g and use the 8 million exception plus banks to get him. It probably has a 1% or less chance, but it's what I want, and I'm writing santa for it.

by jasonsuns1 on Jul 22, 2007 2:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Second Place is the First Loser

Coming in second (or third or sixth) for several years is nothing compared to one year as the champion.

You go for it. That's it.

Remember the D-Backs? I do. RJ winning 3 games in the Series. Schilling coming out on short rest. BK wearing out his arm and giving up those HRs in two straight game. Gonzo making it work agains the best closer we've seen in decades. And that was just the final series. What about Womack's hit in Game 5?

I was in my living room watching Game 7 when the B-2s flew over my house. I don't care that they sucked last year. They probably would've sucked anyway. The title was worth it.

For the Suns, a shot at the title would've been worth the $16M. Colangelo would've kept him ... unless there's a KG acquisition coming. That's got to be the reason.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 22, 2007 2:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about this...

I mean I want a ring as much as anyone but there's about 29 teams that would love to have the Suns' problems right now.

The Cav's for example can't keep Verjao who is a much more crucial part of their team then KT was b/c they are up on the lux tax. Who are they paying all that money to besides King James? Larry Hughs gets $12m for the next 3 years. Big Z: $10-$11m for 3 more years and it gets worse from there w/ Snow, Marshall and Damon Jones. Talk about a sucky situation to be in. And then there's the Knick - do even get me started on how crappy that situation is.

The Sun's are looking pretty good for the value they are getting from the contracts they have w/ the notable exception of Banks who at $4m/yr is still a MUCH better value then Larry Hughs at $12m. Diaw at $9m is a ? mark but still for a young rotation player and possible starter isn't that bad. Diaw also has a TON more trade potential then a lot of other guys.

Anyway - back to your comment. I would much rather be a Suns fan right now then a fan of any other team. Even the Spurs who despite winning are mostly boring.

There's certainly no guarantee the Suns would win w/ KT and no guarantee that they can't win without him. And - as I said - I don't think the Suns are done so let's see if they get another big for more value per minute.

Hey - here's an idea. How about Pike for Petro? (I think I should have T-shirts made...)

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2007 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would politely disagree!

Banks sits on the bench with absolutely no trade value and Hughes is a starter on the Eastern conference champions. Hughes was a bad fit just like Banks but if Hughes is healthy, at least he will start and play, unlike a healthy Banks. But if you combine Gooden's salary of 6.4 million, then each are getting about $9 million which is what they both deserve.

Big "Z" is one of only a couple legitimate traditional centers in the league. His contract is right on the money for his value, $10 million. I'd take "Z" at $10 million over Diaw at $9 million any day of the year. "Z" might be slow but you find a real coach who could coach a half- court game and with Amare's weak-side "D", you don't worry about Duncan anymore or penetration from Parker and Manu. There is a reason S.A. couldn't score against Cleveland.

Damon Jones is their version of Banks. Marshall is worth his 5.5 million. Just like the Suns found out, you can't keep more than fouur all-star caliper players and a bench and stay under the cap. The problem for the Suns they are stuck with zero production with their 4th highest salary, Diaw, who at $9 million for the next five years has ZERO trade potential. We couldn't give him away for a trade exception! At least with KT, he has an expiring contract!

Additionally, Varejao's contract will be more than he is worth because he played a significant role on a good team. He is really only worth around 4-6 million.

by Mihajlo on Jul 22, 2007 11:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Seattle dumping bigs.

Seattle is in no hurry to achieve any success. They have two years before they have to start winning, so they aren't concerned with bringing in veterans to help win. KT is not going to start over Green, Collison, Swift, Wilcox, Durant or Petro. He is a veteran presence and mentor and that is all. I'd be surprised if he even gets off the bench, they are going to give all of their minutes to their young guys because they do not have any pressure to win yet. Sam Presti saw the opportunity to buy two 1st rd. picks for about $4 million each and he jumped on it. He can see the writng on the wall in Phoenix and knows that our #1 in 2010 could end up being a fairly high pick. There is a reason this guy is the youngest G.M. in the league, he knows what he is doing.

by Mihajlo on Jul 22, 2007 11:39 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Good points

That makes sense for Seattle to hang on to all their young guys but both Sene and Petro have only this year left on their deals.

Wouldn't Seattle want to at least get something for one of them? They clearly aren't going to resign them both.

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2007 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Petro for Piatkowski

I'd love to acquire Petro but why would Seattle give away their young, athletic, shot-blocking back-up center? They have FIVE 1st rd. picks in the next THREE years. Bigs are the hardest players to find and take the longest to develop. By the time they rebuild their backcourt through the draft, their bigs will be ready for prime time. Enjoy the Suns now because in three years the power will shift to Seattle, Portland, and somehow the Lakers(sorry but history is on their side).

by Mihajlo on Jul 22, 2007 11:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Seattles guards

Anybody look at the short-term Sonics roster? Next year they can drop Thomas, West, Sene, Petro and Wilkens. In two years they can drop Wilcox and Szcerbiak. As far as being short on guards, they have three points in Ridnour, Watson and West. For shooting guards they can use West, Durant and Wilkens. Szcerbiak will be their designated long-ball shooter. All I see is a lot of flexibility and versatility in the next two-three years.

by Mihajlo on Jul 22, 2007 12:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs