So, Whose Team Is It Anyway?

by TexSUN on Aug 10, 2007 7:32 PM MDT in Suns News Comment 15 comments

A day after bringing smiles to a lot of faces with quotes professing his love for the city of Phoenix, Amare Stoudemire made the kind of comment that's sure to evoke a different type of reaction from both fans and teammates alike:

"This team was pretty much built around me."

...so says Amare in an interview during yesterday's KTAR broadcast of the Suns.com Newsroom grand opening. It's nothing new from him. We've heard quotes like that from Amare before, and I've probably panned him for it on this blog before as well. But I still cringe whenever I hear him say it because, well, it just seems so "un-Suns-like" since this is a team that thrives on players being willing to put their egos in the closet to serve the greater good. And it's not as if Amare is merely repeating something that everyone generally agrees is true. Less than 22 minutes after Amare made that statement, Mike D'Antoni was in front of that same camera saying the following about Steve Nash:

"I'm going to take care of [Steve]. He's the one that butters my bread."

So, in other words, Amare sees the Suns as Amare's team, whereas Mike D'Antoni (and probably 90% of all Suns fans) see the Suns as Steve Nash's team--at least for now. Anyone who disagrees with that assessment has only to look back to the 2005-06 season as Exhibit A on why the Suns are what they are largely because of the point guard they have running the system. While Amare may very well be the difference between being a very good team that can go deep in the playoffs and being a team that can actually win it all, he's not yet matured enough, in my mind, to assume the role of team leader. His "this team is built around me" comment is plenty proof of that. A true leader would know that such a statement (even if it's true) is likely to cause unnecessary resentment and friction amongst his teammates. He would understand that the wisest leaders are those who lead by example and deed. Think about it--would you want to work with a guy who's constantly proclaiming himself the best employee at the company? Amare is also nowhere close to being as indispensable to the team as Nash (see the Suns' 54-win season and western conference finals run without Amare in 2005-06 vs. the Suns' absolutely abysmal, "lottery team"-like record in games without Nash). In fact, I see Amare as third on the Suns' most indispensable scale--behind Nash and Shawn Marion.

But, lest anyone think I'm throwing Amare under the bus after giving him the headline space here yesterday, I do understand why he might think the Suns are built around him. While the Suns ended up as Nash's team, I'm not sure that was entirely the original plan. When the Suns signed Nash in 2004, they knew they were getting a great point guard who would bring veteran leadership to what was then a very young team. However, I doubt they knew they were getting a two-time MVP, who would literally change the definition of what it means to be a franchise player. At the time, it was typically a team's leading scorer who got that honor, and it was the Malones who got to win MVPs not the Stocktons. But Nash turned all of that upside down when he made the assist fashionable again. Now, it's all about making the guys around you better, and Nash happens to be one of the best ever at that. I'm sure that no one--including Nash himself--ever expected his career to take the direction that it has, which brings me back to Amare. The Suns were largely built with Amare in mind, at least they were pre-Nash. And I also think that the team will be built around Amare again at some point in the future. Steve can't play forever (although I tend to think his "window" is a lot longer than many people believe). At some point, Amare will be the leader on this team, unless someone else unexpectedly comes along to "Wally Pipp" him again. But Mike D'Antoni is right too: At the moment, it is Steve who "butters the bread" for the Suns, and Amare who puts on the finishing touches that make them a legitimate contender. Perhaps it was originally meant to be the other way around, and perhaps someday it will be the other way around. But for now, it is how it is. Of course, this whole discussion is probably a little "un-Suns-like", as it's the team and the winning that matter, not who's in charge.

Poll

When should the Suns become Amare's team?

Never--he'll never have the maturity to be a leader or make his teammates better

24 votes

When Nash retires

32 votes

In another year or two

9 votes

The Suns should already be Amare's team

5 votes

70 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 15 comments

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Comments

Everyone knows...

that this is Boris Diaw's team

by Aluminum Foyle on Aug 11, 2007 12:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

You know what?

If Boris had improved on his 2005-06 performance instead of taking a 180 the other direction, that idea might not be as crazy as it sounds. Obviously it wouldn't happen right away, but Boris actually possesses some of the best traits of both Nash and Amare, with a few extras of his own thrown in. He's unselfish, he's an excellent passer, and he's a terrific scorer when he wants to be. Plus he has a nice postup game as well. Unfortunately, he seems to lack the competitive drive that both Nash and Amare possess in spades, and that will likely derail any potential he might have as a future franchise player. But I really think he could become the best player on the team if he wanted to.

by TexSUN on Aug 11, 2007 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Diaw is too soft

He is the 2nd coming of David Robinson in a different position, without the competitive drive, and a chizeled cut 7 foot body. But like Robinson, he does have some guys who can push him.

by Aluminum Foyle on Aug 11, 2007 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

and...

It'll be Leandro's team in 4 years

by Son of Steve Nash on Aug 12, 2007 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

on amare

the hope is 99.99999% gone, but I still say we should've traded Amare for Garnett. I heard a lot of people say Amare will mature, this seems like a very silly thing to say. I think Amare improving on defense is very likely, and that if he treated people better, he'd get more calls (nobody likes a jerk). BUT...HERE'S THE KEY.... changing the way he thinks and treats his teammates (at least with comments), that my friend is not easy. It is not likely, and I'm shocked that we're waiting. Simply put, get a player like Duncan who is mature and hard working, and smart and win many championships, get a player like Amare and wait for years to maybe win once. I'm sorry, I love the Suns, but his attitude and comments are the opposite of what I've found so attractive from many Suns the past 2-3 years.

I think many, many people are taking stupid pills or something, it reminds me of Clinton, or Kobe, find a man who has weak morals, and hurts the person he has professed to love the most, and has children with, and that is a person I think very low of. There's mistakes, then there's I think of me first, and you second, and that is not what I loved about the 2005-6 Suns team, of course Amare was out, making them more cohesive. They didn't have to worry about Amare getting off the bench.

Sad..

by jasonsuns1 on Aug 11, 2007 11:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Amare

Well, I kind of invited comments like this by going off on my hot button a little yesterday, but here's the thing... I do agree that Amare comes off as a first class jerk in many of his comments to the media (such as the one that drew my ire in this entry). On the other hand, I've heard from people who have actually met him in person that he was absolutely kind and respectful all the way. Since I've never met him myself, I can't speak from first-hand knowledge, but can only go by what people have told me. That doesn't mean that I don't think his bragging to the media about himself isn't entirely off-putting, unnecessary, and inexcusable (and I don't care how well he plays, or even if he's right, that's just not the way a good teammate should conduct himself). But maybe there's another side to him that the public doesn't get to see. Who's to say....

by TexSUN on Aug 12, 2007 2:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

texsun...

you make very valid points on this, I to, have seen the good side of Amare. It's quite baffling, which is him? It's important for me to note something I didn't above, it's his style of handling things, his lack of modesty, his lack of understanding what he says, and how it is perceived by most that bothers me, but, I do think he has a good heart.

Maybe on most teams I'd like him more, but next to unselfish, humble Nash, I think he looks much worse than he is. I really wonder about the team chemistry between the top five. It seems like Nash, Barbosa, and Bell are as ideal as can be, but for Nash to have called out Marion's play against L.A. (I think) in the playoffs last year, to me, that's a fire. That's something S.A. doesn't have, that we do, inconsistency. Because there's times where the Suns look like they're in another league above the nba, it's so enjoyable to watch. I did not think I would say this five years ago, but if they don't win the championship, to me, it was still worth watching them play all year, and paying to watch them. They're so much fun (the style). I wonder if anyone here has seen any extensive video of D'antoni playing ball in Italy, or if anyone knows a link to view some, not just a few seconds, but 15+ minutes.

Another question, do people here think the Suns are just another variation of a fast break team, like the lakers, or others, or are they different?

When I watch bird, the thing that makes me stop, and rewind the most is his passing. I feel what I feel, Amare says something selfish, I'm going to react, but, I also think Nash is very lucky to have 2 finishers like Marion and Amare, w/o them, I don't think the mvps would've been as likely (funny).

And, Amare was cool and brought Nash in on the Allstar dunk thing with the head pass, and the kick pass, that was unselfish. Things aren't always so clear, but, it is obvious with Amare, he wants to win badly. And I think he and Diaw are attacking this off season better than previous years. 10 lbs off for Diaw, cool, he could've made a much bigger impact if the player from 2 yrs ago showed up.

by jasonsuns1 on Aug 12, 2007 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nash and Marion

I don't think Nash specifically mentioned Marion's name, but a lot of media people thought that's who he was talking about, regardless. What he actually said was that the team needed to be hungrier and play harder. I don't remember him specifically mentioning Marion. And to be honest, it's one of the few times I've disagreed with something Nash had to say. I tend to think those kinds of statements are best made in the lockerroom, not to the public. I guess I'm kind of a "keep the dirty laundry at home" person. But who knows, maybe he had already tried the that approach and it hadn't worked.

by TexSUN on Aug 13, 2007 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

you wanna talk about morals...

Say what you will about Clinton, atleast he was competent, and wasn't a total F***-Up like the current prez. everyone made a big deal over the Monica thing, looking back at it, its a million times better than this war in Iraq, and all the other ineptitudes of Bush. But moving on to basketball, I think Amare is sometimes an ignorant guy, he had issues with his family growing up, he probably never had anyone instill any discipline in him growing up, and therefore he is mentally weak, much like Marion. No doubt they both have immense talent, but it seems to me that this will be the final year that the Suns will have a shot at contending, unless they make a move or 2 to bring in a big guy to help and back up Amare, which I doubt since Sarver is thinking about green instead of gold, and lacks fortitude, and is not willing to go all-in to try to win atleast 1 title.

by Aluminum Foyle on Aug 12, 2007 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

no argument here...

it's funny, because, I think talent wise, Marion, Amare and Nash are better than any other 3 on any other team, easily. But, the mental side, that's not the case with them. Look at Duncan, physically he's not like Amare or Lebron, but he's smart and consistent, and that's what's been winning.

On the president thing, I agree we shouldn't be at war, or it should have been handled with a much better, shorter plan. It's a mess. I have 2 thoughts on the Bush thing and people saying he's such a fool, etc.

1. Maybe so, hard to really evaluate, he's in a job where he can't please everyone, he just has to do what he thinks is right, and follow through on the issues he supports, for why people voted for him. But this country's interest in cars and oil is all about money, and nothing about long term plans and what's the smart thing to do. The biggest problem is there's many other issues like this that are not being handled with much thought of the future, instead it's about money and power.
(My guess)

2. It seems to me decades ago, a president was respected, and people in the military were also respected. Hard to know for sure, wasn't around, but it seems like this is the case. But, since the vietnam war, there seems to be this huge group of peopl in California (excuse me, the U.S.) who likes trashing the U.S. and the soldiers who fight for us. I don't mind the not agreeing with the U.S. moves, but I will always disagree with not supporting the military. I think our country has lost the family core of values and morals.

One thing about Clinton of course, he really was a great talker, and speaker, where Bush is not. They could be saying the same thing, but because of Bush's style, it'll come off stupid.

by jasonsuns1 on Aug 12, 2007 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amare vs Marion

With Amare saying the teams is built around him and Marion saying it should be built around him, you have a mixture like gasoline and water. It almost came to the surface last year when Marion said you have to have the ball to score. I think this year it will explode because the Suns will not have the run they did last year and everyone will start throwing bombs. Once that happens, you will have to dump Marion or Amare and I doubt if it will be Amare. Once you break up the core, the engine fails and that is where it is headed if some egos are not tamed.
I think the discontent will spread because the team will resent $arver saving a few bucks by dumping Kurt Thomas. If Diaw, the French Pastry, comes to camp in the same shape as last year, who will relieve Amare? Yea, right, I forgot about that Kerr Phenom named Marks. If he is so great, why did he play only 17 minutes last year?

by OneSunsFan on Aug 12, 2007 9:05 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

on your comments

I also think this is potentially shaping up to happen ("everyone start throwing bombs"). But, it's important to note, Diaw has already lost 10 lbs, it will be a different year next yr. I think him seeing Parker's success has motivated him more than we realize. On the Suns and not making the runs they made last yr, no predictions here, I've always thought if they still had Joe Johnson, they'd be such a strong outside force, with Amare and Marion to keep them somewhat competitive inside, that they'd kill most teams, and would've won it all. Losing Joe Johnson is what hurt this team, not K.Thomas leaving. On marks, it's a mystery to me also, almost like a bad joke, I'm hoping I'm wrong on him (Marks)

by jasonsuns1 on Aug 12, 2007 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Sort of Like the Comments

Sorta ... not really, but I think the interview question was in regard to the "window" for championships. In context, Amare said the window for the Suns' championships is huge because the team's built around him. For the future, it is. For the present, he's a pretty important pillar. He also said that things look a whole lot better in the near future (with him and Nash) than the more-distant future (without Nash). He actually wasn't quite that elegant, but he's going to college to work on that.

In my black-and-white world, you can pretty much break down competitive personalities into Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed. STAT has a bit more Apollo in him than Rocky, and that's the way he's built. It's not an excuse, and the comments are something he definitely has to work on, but I don't want him to change too much. The comment was inappropriate in that it wasn't diplomatic enough, but sometimes diplomacy can be over-rated.

It's also good to look at the negatives (or, in HR-speak, "challenges") that each of the players has. It's a good way to round out each player's day. I'd even welcome that we we get to the Suns' Dancers Day.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Aug 12, 2007 11:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

on nba players...comments

Often I think it might be better if the players weren't required to talk to the media like they are.
I think some chemistry problems arise from statements which even though said, probably weren't a problem until flamed by the media.

by jasonsuns1 on Aug 12, 2007 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

A very good point about the media

I was probably guilty of that myself by writing this post. After all, Amare talked about a lot in that interview, yet my post only focused on the one comment he made that raised my ire. I could easily have chosen to write about how hard he's working during the off-season, about how he's spending a lot of time with his kids and going to school, or even his chit-chat about the Diamondbacks at the end of the interview. Instead, I just wrote about that one sentence, and in all honesty, felt entirely justified in doing so because I felt like it kind of "ruined" the rest of the interview for me. But someone else for whom self-aggrandizing isn't as much of a turnoff might have walked away from the interview with an entirely different impression of Amare. So yeah, what we read/hear in the media isn't always exactly the way it is.

by TexSUN on Aug 13, 2007 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs